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Will Obamacare Passage Lead to Inverse Cloward-Piven?

While some conservatives have, in the past 72 hours, found a silver lining in the cloud of all-but-certain passage of Obamacare, others caution that the silver lining, Republican victories in next year’s election, will be ephemeral while the cloud, greater government control over our lives, will be permanent, a perpetual gloomy day.

When, they ask, has Congress ever repealed a federal program?  Even Ronald Reagan, in his heyday, was only able to contain the rate of growth of federal programs, he wasn’t able to eliminate any, even some which had long outlived their usefulness.  This, they argue, is just one more step on the road to serfdom, from which there is no turning back.

Some say Obama’s spending spree is part of the Cloward/Piven Strategy

to overthrow capitalism by overwhelming the government bureaucracy with entitlement demands. The created crisis provides the impetus to bring about radical political change.

And this health care reform only helps accelerate that process.  A number of conservatives have referenced this strategy. Libertarian iconoclasts, like Glenn Beck, have followed suit.  Indeed, the Piven/Cloward thesis became all but conventional wisdom.  “It was,” Michael Barone writes, “widely supposed that economic distress would increase America’s appetite for big-government measures to restrict carbon dioxide emissions and control the provision of health care.

All this government spending, however, seems to be having having the opposite effect.  Never before has Congress enacted such a massive reform on a pure party line vote.  A number of Republicans joined their Democratic colleagues in passing Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.  Popular opinion had not turned against those reforms at the time they were enacted.

This isn’t how Miss Piven and Mr. Cloward imagined things would turn out.  Not only do we have public opinion running against health care reform, we have the American people turning against government reforms of all kinds.  Barone cites a Rasmussen poll showing “66 percent of Americans favor[ing] smaller government with fewer services and only 22 percent favor[ing] more services and higher taxes.”   Three months ago, Gallup found 57% of Americans saying “the government is trying to do too many things that should be left to businesses and individual, and 45% say there is too much government regulation of business.

No wonder the number of Americans who disapprove of the president’s party has jumped nearly 50% since he took office.  He’s spent the past eleven months increasing government regulation of the private sector.

Have the American people finally had enough?   Is health care the proverbial straw which breaks the camel’s back?  Will Americans now clamor not for more government spending, but for less?  In seeking repeal of this burdensome new health care initiative, will the American people also demand repeal of other burdensome programs?

The growing strength of the Tea Party movement shows the energy on the side of small government advocates.  But, the question remains, can we channel that grassroots energy into legislative accomplishment?

This movement is the continuation of the process begun in 1964 when the GOP nominated Barry Goldwater as its standard bear.  I believe the end result of the current crisis won’t be the overthrow of capitalism, but it’s reinvigoration.  The dark cloud of increased government control over health care will soon pass.

We’ll elect conservatives committed to smaller government and they’ll repeal this and other federal boondoggles.  And the private sector will flourish once again, free market reforms will help fix our health care system.  We’ll have better and more efficient medical care and more, many, many more opportunities, provided Republicans stand firm for the principles Ronald Reagan championed.  Should Republicans champion smaller government, with people paying more attention to politics, they’ll do as they have been doing for the better part of this year, turn away from the Democrats, turning them out of office.

But then again, like the Gipper, I’m an optimist.



  1. While I am also pessimistic about the prospects of repeal (should a health care bill pass in some kind of final form), I do remember that the Medicare Catastrophic Coverage Act of 1989 was so unpopular it was repealed only a year later.

    Comment by Dave N. — December 21, 2009 @ 8:39 pm - December 21, 2009

  2. Thanks for your optimism, it is very much needed now.

    Comment by Leah — December 21, 2009 @ 8:53 pm - December 21, 2009

  3. Even if Republicans regain control of both house of congress in 2010 and attempt to repeal it, if it does pass,, Obama will veto the legislation. Only if the outrage scares the heck out of Democrats by severe losses will it be repealed.

    Comment by Charles — December 21, 2009 @ 8:53 pm - December 21, 2009

  4. This administration doesn’t respect Americans enough to accept how each of us is entitled to our opinion…no matter the difference.

    Which is worse… a carping citizen… or a whining president ?????

    Comment by Spartann — December 21, 2009 @ 10:24 pm - December 21, 2009

  5. “Not only do we have public opinion running against health care reform, ”

    Ooops. CNN poll today…

    “”As you may know, the U.S. Senate is considering a bill that would make major changes in the country’s health care system. Based on what you have read or heard about that bill, do you generally favor it or generally oppose it?” If oppose: “Do you oppose that bill because you think its approach toward health care is too liberal, or because you think its approach toward health care is not liberal enough?” Combined responses

    Favor – 42%
    Oppose – not liberal enough – 13%

    Oppose – too liberal – 39%

    Other/Unsure – 6%

    Seems to me that, as I pointed out the other day (although then – different poll – the numbers were not quite as dramatic as this) we have 55% – thats a healthy MAJORITY supporting Obamacare or something to the left of it.

    Sorry guys, but at some point y’all are going to have to open your eyes and face reality. You so often seem more intent on telling yourselves pleasant little stories than dealing with how things really are – maybe this is why you have lost power and likely not to be entrusted with it again any time soon.

    The majority of Americans are NOT WITH YOU on this.

    Comment by Tano — December 22, 2009 @ 12:19 am - December 22, 2009

  6. Dan, your post is optimistic. We have to collectively roll up our sleeves and make it happen.

    Also, I truly believe that at the rate the Obamacrats are spending, the Federal government will be bankrupt in five years – or less. That may bring about the repeal of of welfare programs that you’re talking about – with, unfortunately, a lot of economic distress and collateral damage to America along the way.

    If ObamaGreidCare passes, all people of good conscience should absolutely try to bankrupt it with their own form of the Cloward-Piven strategy. Let me explain.

    The ObamaGreidCare bill will simultaneously make it illegal to deny people coverage for pre-existing conditions, mandate that people buy insurance, and have the IRS collect a financial penalty on them if they don’t. The penalty will be far cheaper than the cost of the insurance. What that means is, there will be no reason to buy insurance any more. You will be able to get coverage after you are sick – like getting homeowners’ insurance after your house is already on fire – and it will be far cheaper to do so, merely paying the IRS fine each year until you are sick. That is not only to your advantage, it is a way that we can collectively bankrupt the immoral, evil system that ObamaGreidPelosi propose to put in place.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — December 22, 2009 @ 12:58 am - December 22, 2009

  7. I think this does the job of responding to the proven liar Tano’s “point” quite nicely.

    And notice how the poor pathetic child Tano starts to insist that every single other poll is wrong and that CNN’s poll is the only authority out there.

    The poor Tano child is truly lost in his delusion, as was shown this past afternoon. No grip of history, no grip on reality, just a mindless repeating of talking points with a complete inability to process or accept the failures of his messiah and his Obama Party.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 22, 2009 @ 1:07 am - December 22, 2009

  8. While Tano supports his position with ‘majority’ polls, and offers us ‘reality’ to face, American-ness does not support his points of view. By American-ness, I mean the support of Constitutionally-based legislation. Tano may support an ever-increasing government as savior for our United States, but REAL Americans know better.
    I mean this emphatically. REAL Americans support a return to Constitutional values. There may not be many of us now, but we will raise an army.
    Beware, Tano et al., we’re not sitting quietly in the wings for long. Y’all may have the support of academia and the media for now, but we will rebel. And (I know this sentence is not grammatical) we will inter you and your followers. Not (also, another agrammatical sentence) in an awfullt agggressive sense, but in the sense that Lenin meant. WE WILL BURY YOU.

    Comment by Brendan In Philly — December 22, 2009 @ 1:23 am - December 22, 2009

  9. “Awfully”, btw.

    Comment by Brendan In Philly — December 22, 2009 @ 1:24 am - December 22, 2009

  10. Brendan

    you might be surprised. There are plenty of folk who vote Democrat who are totally furious over what has taken place.

    Comment by StraightAussie — December 22, 2009 @ 1:39 am - December 22, 2009

  11. From your fingertips to God’s ears!

    Comment by Annie — December 22, 2009 @ 2:18 am - December 22, 2009

  12. Tano, that’s a fascinating poll & I will certainly grant that some of those opposing the plan consider it too liberal and consider it an outlier, but bear in mind that a number of polls have shown a majority would prefer doing nothing, maintaining the status quo, with health care legislation similar to that the Democrats have proposed.

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — December 22, 2009 @ 3:03 am - December 22, 2009

  13. I don’t think it is an outlier Dan. In fact, the media seems to have really mischaracterized public support for Obamacare – maybe all along. Maybe it is not just you guys telling yourselves sweet fantasies about how your position is popular – maybe the media has been complicit in this.

    Another example today – there is a Quinnipiac poll out whose blaring headline is “U.S. Voters Oppose Health Care Plan By Wide Margin” – that seems to be the official line in so many of these polls. But actually the numbers are not all that different than the CNN poll, but they do not do the breakdown as to WHY people are opposed. But they do give us some reason to infer what that breakdown might be:

    “While voters oppose the health care plan, they back two options cut from the Senate bill, supporting 56 – 38 percent giving people the option of coverage by a government health insurance plan and backing 64 – 30 percent allowing younger people to buy into Medicare. ”

    Once again – and this is a very consistent finding in all these polls – a strong majority actually support positions well to the left of Obamacare – public option and Medicare buy-in. So again, in this poll, I think it pretty obvious that at least some significant percent of the overall “oppose” group is opposition coming from the left.

    And these people will, I am hypothesizing, eventually, grudgingly come to accept the bill as the best that could be done at this time. And they will, of course, never go out and vote Republican.

    Comment by Tano — December 22, 2009 @ 9:20 am - December 22, 2009

  14. You know, Tano is a view into the soul of how they think in the bunker.

    Just before they all bite down on the cyanide capsule, they will sing the progressive anthem, raise a glass for wars fought and battles waged and then lie down in their swan boats to be ferried off to downtown Utopia.

    Comment by heliotrope — December 22, 2009 @ 9:28 am - December 22, 2009

  15. Jim DeMint has uncovered language in the bill that, according to him, is truly unprecedented in that the bill will bind future Congress if it passes., making it unrepealable. He asserts it may be unconstitutional. Go to BrietbartTV to view the 10 minutes clip.

    So know we’ve got the individual mandate, where Congress is forcing citizens to buy a financial product from a profit-making private enterprise if that firm is on a government approved list. Many think this is unconstitutional. I’ve seen blogs that suggest the sweatheart deal Ben Nelson struck could violate the “equal protection” clause. And now DeMint’s find. I’m no lawyer so I don’t know if any of these have merit, but some pretty smart people think they do.

    I don’t know if I should be happy that we may have legal grounds to challenge the bill, or at least specific provisions of it, or sad that Democrats are willing to piss all over the constitution and engage in tyrannical practices to impose its will to satsify a political agenda in pursuit of a policy most people don’t want.

    Comment by Scott — December 22, 2009 @ 10:54 am - December 22, 2009

  16. It’s a sad day when the congress in Honduras has a better understanding and willingness to follow their constitution than American congressmen do.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 22, 2009 @ 11:40 am - December 22, 2009

  17. The penalty will be far cheaper than the cost of the insurance. What that means is, there will be no reason to buy insurance any more. You will be able to get coverage after you are sick – like getting homeowners’ insurance after your house is already on fire – and it will be far cheaper to do so, merely paying the IRS fine each year until you are sick. That is not only to your advantage, it is a way that we can collectively bankrupt the immoral, evil system that ObamaGreidPelosi propose to put in place.

    It is precisely this setup that will most probably lead to a ruling that the bill is unconstitutional under the fifth amendment. There appears to be ample, settled corporate case law against this sort of scheme. More details here:


    Although I am by no means an optimist about the coming course of events, the detailed article cited at the above link has improved my outlook a bit. It would be highly amusing to see our legislators slapped down by the courts. The same thing happened in the 1930’s to the worst elements of the New Deal.

    Comment by Matteo — December 22, 2009 @ 1:56 pm - December 22, 2009

  18. Do conservatives in here remember the days when we had what 8-12 liberals who would engage us in debates and arguments? Tano, the last of the breed, sits there and tries to tell us everything is hunky dorey, while the rest of his brethern are hiding under the bed going, “oh no, no we’re losing it, we’re gonna get routed in 2010”!

    Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — December 22, 2009 @ 3:01 pm - December 22, 2009

  19. Gene, what I love is all the commie-on-commie violence that has erupted over ObamaGreidCare. Our other hardcore-lefty friends are probably sniping at each other on Kos or DU. First things first, you know.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — December 22, 2009 @ 3:47 pm - December 22, 2009

  20. I think the other way is simply to stop paying taxes.

    Then when the IRS comes after you, file a lawsuit that essentially states that, since Charles Rangel, Timothy Geithner, Hilda Solis, Kathleen Sebelius, Tom Daschle, and the other Obama Party members were allowed to pay their taxes only when and where they felt like it, if indeed they paid them at all, with no threat of punishment or imprisonment, that to not allow you to do similarly is a violation of equal protection.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 22, 2009 @ 6:31 pm - December 22, 2009

  21. Should the Republicans regain Congress – both upper and lower houses – then they should be looking at impeaching the White House as well as any remaining Democrat responsible for the Abominationcare.

    Comment by StraightAussie — December 25, 2009 @ 5:23 am - December 25, 2009

  22. Okay, so suppose the Supremos issue a bench veto of the Pelosi-topian Reid-ilicious Obama-ible snow job that hides under the misnomer ‘health care reform.’ You betcha every commissar-wannabee Democrat pol and useful idiot will be obeying Party orders to scream and whine about those eeeevil Catholics and Republican appointees sitting on the Supreme Court. They’ll bawl a lotta noise about ‘legislating from the bench’ (hoping to twist a strict constructionist term around 180 degrees) and likely sell a pack of lies to a mostly mouth-breathing voting majority. Already weakened, the Supreme Court will be wrecked by the historically pro-slaver, race-obsessed party. Mark my words.

    Comment by Micha Elyi — December 25, 2009 @ 6:44 pm - December 25, 2009

  23. […] Fifth place with 1/3 point(Tie*) – Gay Patriot – Will Obamacare Passage Lead to Inverse Cloward-Piven? […]

    Pingback by Watcher of Weasels » Christmas Winners From The Watcher’s Council! — January 22, 2010 @ 1:45 am - January 22, 2010

  24. I just stumbled upon this site. Am proud of yawl. I am not anti/pro-gay but anti-socialist…anti-nwo.
    Like me, a former single (divorced, rich guy) parent, yawl are painted as demos…I was not. Am not still.
    Does anybody but me think they are trying to speak for me?
    Got some thinkers on your comments blog.
    Thanks again.

    Comment by d — February 24, 2010 @ 1:40 pm - February 24, 2010

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