In the past 24 hours, the mood among my fellow conservatives seems to alternate between hope and despair, with some feeling that the Democrats’ overreach these past 14 months will lead to a reinvigorated conservative movement, able to recapture the congressional majority and repeal burdensome regulation and shut down meddlesome federal programs while others insist that Obamacare, like entitlements before it, are here to stay.
I tend to belong to the latter camp, (yet admit to feeling part of the former at times). I looking at polls which show a remarkable consistency: the American people don’t want bigger government. Indeed, Obama seemed to recognize this his successful bid for the White House when he promised a “net spending cut.”
According to a CNN survey this past weekend, 56% of Americans believe the health care bill creates “too much government involvement in the nation’s health care system.” Last September, Gallup found that a near identical percentage of Americans, 57%, believe “the government is trying to do too many things that should be left to businesses and individuals“. Only 38% thought it should do more.
After all the effort Democrats put into passing this bill–and by the barest of majorities–Democrats may well have expended all their political capital and be unable to push new programs through. Obama still feels he needs to sell the program to the American people. (Isn’t that kind of link a used car salesman coming to your house and continuing his spiel about the quality of the car he sold you, as if his words alone will overcome the problems with the vehicle you were all but forced to buy?)
Just take a gander at the CNN poll. 62% of Americans think their health care bills will go up under the new plan. 70% say it will increase the deficit. 47% think their families will be worse off, while only 19% think they’ll be better off. And this despite Obama’s incessant shilling of the program, overwhelmingly favorable media coverage and tens (hundreds?) of millions of dollars in TV ads by allied special interests.
All this effort and the barest majority of victory in the House, led by a Speaker with an uncanny ability for rounding up votes. No wonder Allahpundit asks, “With the media in the tank and the bill itself so manifestly awesome, why is Obama planning a multi-year — yes, really — effort to sell it to the public?”
Democrats may have won the legislative battle, but they’re losing the battle for hearts and minds. And that’s why I have hope for the conservative cause. They have every advantage, a charismatic president, a fawning media, supportive special interests and a disciplined and determined House Speaker.
Now let’s hope her successor has the same discipline and the same determination when he takes the gavel next January.
Update from the outside the bubble:
The same polls that show people disapproving of “the health care bill” also approve of what’s actually in it, when you break the provisions out and ask about them individually. There has been so much FUD spread about the laughable “death panels” and a “government takeover of health care”, etc that people fear what they misunderstand. The Congress passed legislation made up of popular reform items; unfortunately the right-wing terrified the country into believing that “the bill” would kill their granny, etc.
Of course Obama is taking the bill on the road. He has to counteract the lies spread about the bill, and to convey to (and, admittedly, convince) the American people that the bill is to their liking and made up of things they want.
Flash forward to November: When people are told two things: one, death panels are coming and you can’t choose anything for yourself due to the government “takeover”, and two, your kids are on your plan after getting kicked off last year, pre-existing conditions for children aren’t an issue anymore, and seniors are getting help with the donut hole, along with other immediate benefits to the American people – like small business tax credits. The thing is, number two will be reality while number one is just going to be year-old fearmongering that still, stubbornly, won’t come true.
If I were a Democrat, I’d go to midterms with that.
Good luck.
Um, torrent, did you even read my post? Obama has been on the road. He has had favorable media. His allies spend tens of millions in ads. And the American people just don’t believe him.
You’ll also note that in this post, I didn’t give the poll numbers on whether people approve or disapprove of the plan. And yes, they do support certain of its myriad provisions, but not all. So, I’m wondering if you’re using the space we provide you not to comment on my posts, but to offer your own thoughts. If the latter, as it appears, why not just set up your own blog?
I give polling data showing that the American people oppose big government and doubt the plan will cut costs or improve the delivery of services. And this after Obama’s road show under the protective eye of a supportive media.
If Obama couldn’t convince people the bill was a good thing when he was pushing out, how do you expect him to convince us it’s a good thing now that it’s passed?
But, then again, these questions have never really been “tested.” Politicians tend not to sell programs already passed, save in campaign season (which, for Obama, never really seems to end). Maybe now that it’s passed, people will warm to it.
Perhaps.
Or perhaps when they learn about its myriad provisions and find out more details about the way it was passed, they will react ever more strongly against the Democrats. You may have a point.
Time will tell.
Conservatives have every reason to be (dare I say it) hopeful. The Democrats peaked when Obama was elected and it has been downhill fast ever since. I agree with what Ann Coulter has said on the subject. She said that in times of general prosperity, Americans are lulled into forgetting about the Carter train wreck and start to believe some of the MSM propaganda and convince themselves, “the Democrats can’t be THAT BAD. It’s not like Obama is actually a socialist or anything.” So every 25 years or so, America puts them in charge and in under four years, it all comes flooding back, they come to their senses, and they put the adults back in charge. That’s exactly what is happening now and we will soon be in a position to thank the Democrats for pursuing their statist agenda right out of the gate with such reckless abandon. In just 12 months, Obama, Pelosi, Reid and crew have been on a power-hungry, socialist rampage that has been even MORE destructive of the economy and dismissive of the American people than conservatives could have predicted. So, thanks to Obama’s narcissistic addiction to “making history,” he wasted no time in revealing to America that, yes, he is THAT BAD. His failure to pace himself in attempting to “transform America” into an inconsequential, stagnant Euro-shit-hole will cost him a second term and he is OUT in 2012.
This will ultimately be good for America. Bush was just what America needed for national security after 9/11, but there’s no question that by the time he left office, the GOP had completely lost its way regarding domestic issues. It will take time to fully repair America’s flirtation with socialism, but ultimately this shake-up will be seen as the catalyst that put the country back on the right path.
I feel particularly hopeful when I see that politicians like Paul Ryan are locked and loaded and ready to fight back. In the following quote, it’s clear that he’s got Obama’s number and sees our President for the pathetic elitist that he is:
“What’s really happening here is the president is saying to the American people that you’re stuck in your current station in life, you’re frozen, and the government is here to help you cope with it. But that’s not who we are. We are a dynamic society where people have the will and incentive to make the most of their lives, to reach their potential. With this bill, that whole mindset, the American idea is upended.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/428833/paul-ryan-is-not-ready-to-give-up-on-health-care/robert-costa
BULLSHIT!!! People are sick to death of arrogant assholes telling them they’re to stupid to understand. They understand it apparently a lot more than the arrogant assholes themselves. Now that Agitator in Chief is gonna run around telling them how delicious and nutritious a shit sandwich is?
We lost, the Marxist-Moooslim won, it’s that simple. I suggest disengaging from politics, from society as a whole.
If the mass of people can’t see Obama as a Marxist, I can’t do or say anything more on the topic. He is siezing the “means of production” to create a dictatorship of the proletariat (i.e., lower-middle class “workers” – unions).
Golly, what a bunch of eeyores! Sean is right. I would also add, from the article that the quotes, that President Obama thinks the electorate are either wicked or stupid. Since it is neither, his false premises are going to bite him in the butt eventually.
Both are wrong.
America is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, far more than people realize. Obamacare pushes it over that edge. (CBO estimates about it being roughly deficit-neutral or whatever are, of course, absurd.)
Entitlements MUST be massively reformed in the next ten years, and WILL be massively reformed, or America dies.
But what reform? Will we become a European social-fascist state, with benefits paid in depreciated dollars, higher taxes, “death lines” (as people wait for medical care) and “death panels” (government rationing boards), permanent double-digit unemployment and inflation, and a lower (aka “greener”) overall standard of living? Or will we cut the Welfare State, moving back toward free-market capitalism (which at this time we do NOT have)?
Either way will be fraught with years of social pain and conflict and economic malaise. In other words, even if economic conservatives win out, Obama has committed this nation to a period of division, political strife and hard feelings, the likes of which have not been seen since the aftermath of the Civil War. It started Monday.
(continued) I mean, don’t just think that America suddenly comes to its senses, economic conservatives win the Presidency in 2012 for sure, pass sane policies and all is well. I pray something like that will happen. But we’re past the point where serious social pain and conflict can be avoided.
Sean A, thank you. My view exactly.
LOL. you repugnant losers lost again. Until the gop comes up with an agenda that doesn’t involve tax cuts (firmly shown that tax cuts DO NOT stimulate the economy), abortion, same-sex marriage and illegally starting wars, the gop will continue to be the minority party.
Americans saw through the lies and fear. You people have nothing positive to offer this country. You lost the last two elections for your poor performances and you will continue paying the price for having no positive agenda.
And, guess what? You deserve everything you get.
##7-8: “Either way will be fraught with years of social pain and conflict and economic malaise. In other words, even if economic conservatives win out, Obama has committed this nation to a period of division, political strife and hard feelings, the likes of which have not been seen since the aftermath of the Civil War…But we’re past the point where serious social pain and conflict can be avoided.”
I’m with you on that, ILC. I believe recovery is possible, but you’re right, it won’t happen overnight and it will be an unmitigated bloodbath. All you have to do is look at the way Democrats have treated Republicans and conservatives in the last 12 months to see how bad it’s going to get. The liberals have been pathologically vicious and dishonest in their attacks on Republican politicians this year, and that’s while they’ve had control of the presidency, a wide majority in the House, and a super-majority in the Senate! It’s the Left’s shameful treatment of the Tea Parties that better foreshadows just how low they will go when they start to feel their power ebbing away. When that reality sinks in, the Democrats will go into full spitting-cobra mode and anyone that opposes them will be targeted for scorch-the-earth destruction. No doubt, it’s going to be uuuuuuuuugly. But worth it.
thanx for correcting “torrent” in his simple minded adoption of the “healthcarereform rhetoric”. I’ve been asked the survey questions and YES! who IS NOT for health care reform? Unfortunately, the bll is NOT abot health care reform. Who DOES NOT want lower premiums? Again, the bill has nothing to do with lower premiums. Who is AGAINST protecting citzens from insurance denial for preexisting conditions … when the person is ALREADY INSURED!!! Not the way this bill calls it; they want to insure the UNinsured With Preexisting conditions, with govt subsidies!!
So, torrent, even if some people like some of the rhetorical benefits of the bill, there are TWO major problems with your bill. A) It does not actually offer the benefits the First Dope is claiming and B) it explodes govt (111 new federal bureaucracies and the IRS (!) is responsible for enforcement(!!)) and costs way more than ANY benefits Real or Imagined!!! SO, NO…it is a stinker and all the roadshows this Ridiculous Clown puts on will NOT change that!
To quote “Zeke” Emanuel, brother of Rahm, who sat in Mrs. Pelosi’s box the night of the “historic” vote, “communitarianism” should guide decisions on who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens…an obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.” (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec.’96) He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: “Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25 year olds receive priority over 65 years olds, everyone who is 65 years now, was previously 25 years.” (Lancet, Jan. 31) Mr. Emanuel has been appointed to two key positions: health policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. Mr. Emanuel, only 2 years ago, wrote that “we” favor promoting and rewarding social usefulness. ..recommending the complete lives system which prioritizes younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporate prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instumental value principles. According to JAMA 6/18/08 Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans expect too much. “Hospital rooms in the United States offer more privacy…physicians’ offices are typically more conveniently located and have parking nearby and more attractive waiting rooms.” Check out the piece “Deadly Doctors”, New York Post 7/24/09 written by Betsy McCaughey, former NY Lieutenant Governor.
buckeyenutlover,
Thanks for descending from your normal low orbit around Neptune and favoring us with your comments. Now put on your sock cap and coat, because the nice young men in the white coats are patiently waiting to take you back to the asylum.
As for this comment: “Obama still feels he needs to sell the program to the American people.”
If Rahm Emanuel has any sense in his nekkid, finger-pointing body, he’ll talk Obama out of his victory lap tour because this has all the makings of a public relations disaster. Obama may think he’s The Smartest President in History (TM), but he’ll be trying to sell IdiotCare to citizens who have actually read the damn legislation from cover and cover and not just think, but know for a fact, that it sucks.
Good luck with all that, Barry.
The “when you break the provisions out and ask about them individually” argument is flawed. Of course if you ask people “would you like free oil changes for life?” they will probably say yes. But if that individual provision is part of a larger package that means their car payments will go up, the cost of car insurance will go up, it will become harder to get oil changes, they can no longer choose exactly which oil goes into their cars, their taxes will go up, their income will go down, their investments will go down, and the national deficit will balloon they become understandably concerned about the true cost of those free oil changes for life.
It is the whole and its costs and consequences we have to deal with. Not the individual provisions. The “no no people really like this when you ask about individual provisions” argument is specious.
“You’ll also note that in this post, I didn’t give the poll numbers on whether people approve or disapprove of the plan.”
Gee Dan, I wonder why you chose not to get into those numbers????
Especially since it found, in the last survey before passage, that support for the bill was 39% and opposition was 59%.
Could it be that you are just still struggling with how to deal with the deeper reality uncovered by this poll – given that they actually ASKED THE QUESTION. Y’know, the obvious follow-up question I have explained to you over and over again…..WHY are you opposed to this bill?
Turns out that fully 20% of those opposed felt the bill was not liberal enough!!
Once again – this is like the fourth poll that I have seen that asked the question and the result is always roughly the same.
Are you finally doing the mental and emotional work necessary to accept reality here?
The parsed out numbers for this question, on the eve of its adoption were:
43% opposed because it is too liberal
39% support
13% opposed because it is not liberal enough
That is what the polls have consistently shown. That is the reality that has been explained to you over and over. Anyone claiming that a majority of Americans agrees with the Republicans on this issue is either lying or clueless.
One more point here. The numbers above add up to 95. Of the 5% undecided, I am going to be ever so generous and give your side 4 of the 5 – just because I am in such a good mood. That comes out to 53-47 supporting Obamacare or something more liberal.
Those numbers, of course, represent the exact numbers Obama won by on Election Day. So the story here is really simple. A small but significant majority of Americans elected the Democrats based on their platform. The Democrats have delivered on at least a sufficient minimum of their promises. Thats the way democracy works – the way it is supposed to work.
gsr, not quite. You give Obama, and all Marxists, way too much credit. They *don’t* serve the “lower-middle class “workers” – unions”. They claim to, but they don’t. They serve themselves, the bureaucracy and party apparatchiks. They may also temporary serve certain corporate-socialist (not capitalist!!!) financial masters, such as the worst elements of Wall Street in Obama’s case – but only as long as they still need the latter for purposes of gaining or keeping power.
ILoveCapitalism, oh I agree with you. Of course socialist/communism/Marxism is DONE in the name of “da vorkers” but it’s all a sham.
Libs/progressives simply like Big Nanny(Big Bro Barry?) looking out for them, making all the though decisions in life for them.
My despair is that since the media is overwhelmingly left-wing, likewise the public school system, there is little chance of re-establishing a limited government republic of individuals. Add to that, the effects of mass immigration with little or not assimilation……….goodbye USA. Barry the Declinist is transforming the nation into a “turd world” country like his Marxist-Mooslim pappy’s.
man, let dems keep repeating all the crap msnbc keeps spewing to themselves, come november all the average person is going to know about the bill is that the only “benefit” they’ve seen is their taxes went way up
the more they fool themselves into believing the feel-good crap the busier they can keep themselves making talking-point troll comments on republican blog sites instead of actually dealing with the fact that they’re screwed
Torrent, Claiming there are things in the legislation that the people support is a poor attempt to hide behind, just as it won’t provide cover for those who rammed this through.
Those claims are a smokescreen. Yes, people complain about pre-existing conditions, and caps, etc.. but what Obamacare has done has used those concerns as a deception.
We heard the faux outrage from Obama and the dems about that California insurer, whose rates jumped 35% or so.. now it’s true that’s a big jump, but the MSM didn’t report on why it happened. As you know, California is bankrupt, and it’s not only got the high unemployment we all have, they have an even larger illegal alien population, the city, and state have been firing workers, and there has been a huge influx onto the state medicaid program, medi-cal. The huge increase in medi-cal, has caused doctors and hospitals to charge more to those who have private insurance and who pay out of pocket, which causes the insurers to charge more for the plans. One other aspect the MSM ignores is the fact that one of the earlier CBO reports stated that if Obamacare passed, we can expect large surges in private insurance premiums charges, 46% increases was the number cited at the time.
The costs of all health insurance plans will skyrocket, because as a result of this law’s passage, all such plans will have to meet the government’s criteria, and it’s not just as simple as claiming that these “evil” plans can’t be capping and denying care. All health care plans will have to include thousands of things the government demands they do. If you buy insurance for yourself, you’re a man, have no plan on having children, you will be forced to pay for a plan that includes maternity, all OB-GYN and abortion services, if you don’t drink or do drugs, you will still have to pay for full rehab coverage, if you eat healthily, and take care of yourself, you’ll have to pay to subsidize those who do not.
Employers won’t be able to choose from lower costs options, their costs will rise, and many will drop worker’s coverage. Walmart’s thrilled about HCR passage, as it will now be able to dump insurance for it’s employees onto the taxpayer. They’ll just pay a fine of $750. per worker, much cheaper than the insurance cost, and struggling small businesses who haven’t been able to afford insurance for workers, will have to pay these fines, which in this economy will lead them to let go workers.
The expansion of medicaid, which compensates doctors at a very low rate, will cause doctors and hospitals to increase the costs it bills patients with private insurance, which will drive those costs up even higher.
This scam of HCR will cap the access to health care, to those, an unelected, unaccountable panel considers not profitable enough to government. You might not like the term “death panel”, but that is what it is. If you were capable of clear, linear thinking.. you know, actually considering the full and wider implications of the situation, you would realize that this redefines the citizenry from one that were the owners of the government, to that of chattel, slaves of the government. In the legislation, it clearly states that those under the ages of 15, and over 40 will be handicapped from from the start, and will be less likely to receive treatment unless there is clear evidence that such treatment will achieve a result that guarantees a “productive” life. Then, those within the 15 to 40 age group, will have treatment decided on whether they merit such treatment. You’re so worried about preserving the false front, you can’t be bothered to think about the realities. Perhaps you foolishly believe that such things only apply to “others”? Clearly you need to crack open a history book and learn about the countless others who didn’t mind depriving others of their rights and lives, because they didn’t believe that it would happen to them.
The real intent of this scam of HCR, was to use the subject of health care reform as a trojan horse. It’s all about consolidating more power into the hands of the executive branch. It allows them to exploit power, to invade our privacy, actually steal our money from our bank accounts, and much more. To dictate what we can do, think, believe, and so on.
Sure there are things in this bill that most would support. But if you make a shit sandwich with fresh tomatoes, it’s still a shit sandwich.
And we have more options than just hope or despair. Get busy. November is coming.
That about sums it up. Good line, hope you don’t mind if I steal it!
buckeyenutlover said: “And, guess what? You deserve everything you get.”
Now that’s just uncalled for.
We most definitely do NOT deserve Obamacare.
Go right ahead, ILC. Use often — it’s phrased so that even lefties can comprehend. Us “bitter clingers” already know it by heart.
I would like to be hopeful but after this past sunday I´m not sure of anything anymore. All during the time leading up to the the House vote conservative pundits were either optimitic or cautious in predicting that Obamacare would not pass. There was a reasonable belief that the 40 or so ¨blue dogs¨ would not toe their Party line. Many conservatives believe they can throw the bums out. If the bill had failed I would be hopeful for a real change in November. I now believe the Democrats will keep their majorities with the help of the Illinois mob, whether they are called ACORN or some other name but the ballot boxes will be stuffed.Democrats will carry cemetaries in their districts by 100%. I´m beginnig to feel that all the hullabaloo we conservatives make is as Shakespear said, ¨much ado about nothing.¨
Roberto, you simply don’t get it. It’s not just conservatives, but independents and democrats who are mad as hell, and plan on voting against democrats. I’m going to vote republican for the first time in my life, and I’m a former lib democrat, the bluest of the blue. I was a loyal dem, one that could be counted on. I’ve come to realize that the republicans were correct all those years, when they called the dems socialists. I feel like a naive fool, and am not the only one. I want to jam the dem party into the rubbish heap of history, and I am committed to doing more than voting, I’ll be contributing to candidates, and campaigning hard, just as my friends did in Massachusetts to elect Scott Brown.
Jenny: Thank you! 🙂
[Citation Demanded]
#28: “(firmly shown that tax cuts DO NOT stimulate the economy),”
Ha, ha. “Firmly shown” = liberals have been saying it over and over again for years.
Shhh! Nobody tell Keynes … tax cuts are the part of Keynesian stimulus that lefties studiously ignore.
Yes, tax cuts stimulate the economy. Not as much as many supply-siders would like to claim, but they stimulate it nonetheless.
conservatives should be in deep despair, for your party is in horrible trouble. You repugnants have offered NOTHING positive; rather, you sit and bemoan and lie and spread fear. The American public decided in 2006 and 2008 that your message is nothing but BS. You have absolutely NO IDEA on how to govern and lead.
The democrats have proven they are the party of results. They get things done, whether you’re for their progress or not. The American public will reward the democrats in November; a Senate super-majority will be back in play and the house democrats will pickup several seats.
You repugnants had a shot, a chance, at being seen as a party that was willing to move this country forward. Sadly, you blew it, took your marching orders from Limbaugh and have now made yourselves completely irrelevant.
You deserve the permanent minority status you’ve been given. You have no ideas and your fear campaigns are so 20th century.
You certainly do waste your time.
1.) You hate us.
2.) You are happy for our misery.
3.) You are thrilled that were are losers forever.
4.) You love to gloat.
5.) You enjoy a daily fix of rubbing it in.
6.) You are addicted to disparaging us.
7.) And your real purpose in life is …………… ?
Is this how someone who hopes to be a night clerk at a 7-11 spends his spare time?
heliotrope, exactly. If bnl’s nutty claims were even half-true, there would be no point in his addressing any remarks to us. Heh 🙂
#31: “The democrats have proven they are the party of results. They get things done, whether you’re for their progress or not.”
We certainly wouldn’t dispute that, buckeyecockslobber.