Fred Phelps can go to hell. He’s likely the most vile person living currently in the United States and his presence here is an embarrassment. Likewise, the celebrity bestowed upon him by the media gives him much more status than he deserves. His rantings and anti-homosexual, anti-American, anti-taste shenanigans are anathema to everything any decent American believes.
That is why he should win in the US Supreme Court when the suit brought against him by Albert Snyder makes its way to them.
(The background on the story is all over the Web and cable news, so I won’t belabor it.)
It’s exactly the disgusting nature of his comments that demand the defense of the First Amendment. In an era when the President of the United States uses the drama of his State of the Union Address to attack and lie about the Supreme Court for upholding our right to speak (and publish books) about candidates running to (allegedly) represent us in government, it is incumbent on us as Americans to defend all political speech, ESPECIALLY that with which we disagree. Without that, our First Amendment means nothing.
That said, the premature ruling that Snyder pay the lawyer fees for this troglodyte is asinine. I’m glad to see many people stepping up to assist Snyder so he doesn’t face the $17,000 bill he can’t afford. Frankly, though, I believe he should drop his case, lest the unintended consequences result in a further abridgement of our right to free speech.
Now… Let The Flaming Begin!
-Nick (ColoradoPatriot, hunkered down at TML)
UPDATE: P.S., I know this is very controversial and perhaps even inflammatory. This is my opinion, and doesn’t necessarily reflect Bruce’s or Dan’s view.
I think of the old statement “Sunshine is the best disinfectant” when Fred Phelps (I refuse to call him “Reverend”) comes to mind. He’s the price we pay for living in a free country.
I agree with the principle. Although I don’t know the details of this particular case, i.e., whether some other, possibly genuine tort was involved.
Just for the record, I’d like to note Phelps’ Democrat associations. Or as Gregory of Yardale put it recently:
Aargh, this is the link: http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/03/this-really-fro.html
I don’t know about you guys, but I can’t wait for the ol’ bastard to die to go protest HIS funeral.
And disgusting and as horrible as his speech is, it’s constitutionally protected. As is mine, when I say that he is one of those most disgusting human beings in the world.
I actually like your point just fine — which is, that there are bigger principles at stake here than a moronic ass.
This is where we send money to defray the legal costs and leave it at the system works.
I though O’Reilly already paid his legal fees. And your right, he should quit no and give this vile creature no more publicity.
I don’t think this court case really has to do with freedom of speech, though. He can protest all he likes, say what he wants. However as the saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. Families of military families have a right to bury their loved ones in peace.
I don’t see why communities don’t just arrest him and his ilk for “disturbing the peace,” a very simple and non-specific charge that’s applicable almost anywhere in the USA, every single time he shows up at a funeral. Even if the charges get dropped, they can hold him for 24 hours while the services take place.
Jamie:
Great point on disturbing the peace. Any lawmen out there can help with the efficacy of such a charge? What if they’re not “disturbing”, i.e., they’re just holding signs quietly across the street? I’m all for getting this guy out of the way, as long as it respects his 1st Amendment rights.
Unfortunately, as much as I despise that nutjob peice of trash, I have to agree with the principle stated.
Don’t the Phelps nuts represent themselves? In that case, how can they get “legal fees”? The judge should have awarded them $1.00 and called it a day. 🙂
From reading the opinion I’d say that I can se the first part, the protest itself, as being protected speech, but not the posting of specific scurillous allegations against Albert Snyder and his wife on the scuzz web site. I think the court was wrong there, and has constructed a Catch-22 where outrageous speech is protected only if it’s TOO outrageous.
Addendum: I live in their neck of the woods and have seen these people in action. If one of them were to come to harm at the hands of another and I were on that jury, I’d find it tough to convict. And all praise to the Patriot Guard people, who road-trip to play human shield in front of these disgustingly evil zealots.
This is a tough one… free speech I guess. But slander and libel?
I’d go this turd’s funeral hoping for a chance to spit on his grave.
I’m with Tully: if someone punched one of these clowns in the nose, I’d find it impossible, as a juror, to convict the puncher for spitting on the sidewalk.
My personal take is this: To kill his desire to protest, bring a collection of the most outrageous drag queens – over-the-top, Carnivale-in-Rio, femmy guys – the more the merrier. Have them join in the Westboro protests, but holding signs that say “Another Fag Favoring Fred’s Right to Protest”
After all, when is a public protest, on public property considered a private event? Should this happen, my bet is is that he stops his protest PDQ – or he and his followers assault said additional protesters which then gets him shut down.
In the meantime, God Bless the Patriot Riders!!
It’s what libs do. He just doesn’t hide his true intentions to deceive everyone.
Nick,
So you dont believe there are reasonable place and time restrictions on free speech? Do you believe people should be able to shout whatever they want in the middle of a public library? Or in the middle of congress while it is in session? These are public places, but there are laws restricting behavior and speech. I think reasonable ones.
Keep in mind also, that a funeral is not government. A dead person, even a dead politician or dead government employee are not government. It’s not like they are being prohibited from protesting the President of the United States and his policies. Even if Barack Obama died this very minute, he stops representing the government when he dies and becomes a private citizen and his funeral is a private ceremony with private mourners . So we cannot argue that Phelps is being prevented from protesting those with power over him.
I disagree that Fred Phelps rights are being unreasonably restricted by telling him you can speak your mind as loud as you want anywhere in the world that you want except in this particular place at this particular time.
he still has the opportunity to speak his mind to all the same people, he still has the opportunity to speak his mind at that precise moment in time, he still has the opportunity to speak his mind in the same location. Just not those particular people at that particular time in that particular place.
There are countless restrictions on free speech that exist today. Restrictions no one even notices because they are entirely reasonable. Prohibiting protests at funerals does not significantly differ from any of them. Let people mourn in peace. No sacred “principle” is being violated.
I agree with the principal, Nick, but I’d like to see this case go to SCOTUS. I see this mostly as a free speech case, which a favorable ruling would uphold like Hustler v. Falwell did. Yet, I’m also torn because these families do have a right not to have their funerals disrupted with bullhorns shouting nasty things about their loved ones. Add to this that I despise Phelps with every fiber of my being mostly because of his attacks on the military (I can deal with the anti-gay crap, he helps matters more than anything in that regard), so freely admit my strong bias. Were I this fallen Marine’s father I can’t say that I wouldn’t do exactly the same thing. Eh, I leave this one up to SCOTUS and happily donated to Snyder’s defense fund.
Interesting..trying to get into gateway pundit…but it’s down..just read where the dad is being charged $90,000 …on top of Bill O’ has said he would pay…
Fallen Marine’s Father: Westboro Cult Is Taking Me to Court For $90,000 (Audio)
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/fallen-marines-father-says-westboro-cult-is-trying-to-get-90000-from-him-audio/
Nothing to flame about regarding your comments, imntbho. You’re right. The First Amendment is designed exactly for these kinds of situations.
Btw, I love this suggestion and I’d love even more to participate!
My personal take is this: To kill his desire to protest, bring a collection of the most outrageous drag queens – over-the-top, Carnivale-in-Rio, femmy guys – the more the merrier. Have them join in the Westboro protests, but holding signs that say “Another Fag Favoring Fred’s Right to Protest”
I’m embarrassed that I haven’t been following this closer. Has anyone seen one of these protests up-close?
I mean, do they come with bodyguards? Not to sock them in the jaw or anything, but if I was at a funeral, I would grab the pallbearers and physically carry them out of earshot. Let them try to make legal hay out of it.
If they’re at a distance already and have a permit, then – yes – there’s really nothing you can do. Being a pinhead is not illegal.
Cordially,
-MFS
Dunno, ColoradoPatriot, I think a lot of folks see it as you do. The first inclination, of course, is to stuff Phelps into a garbage can, and scream bloody murder at the court decision. But upon reflection, with the emotion behind you, most folks see it was the right thing to do.
The sad thing is that soldier fought and died for their right to do what they are doing. We need to go to the USO or the Wounded Warrior Foundation and contribute to the cause. The drag queen idea is great too:)
wow american elephant: +1 here!
Has anyone seen one of these protests up-close? I mean, do they come with bodyguards?
Yes. Several, in company with the Patriot Guard Riders. The hate-puppets are usually “closely monitored” by police so that if they step an inch over the lines they can be rousted out. That’s a bodyguard of a sort — and the police will arrest you if you assault them, much as they would like to see them all vanish into a red mist.
PGR people are great. They don’t let the Phelpiteers egg them into trouble, they simply “screen” them off from funeral attendees with large American flags to keep them invisible from the bereaved.
Should have mentioned — darn near the entire scum-puppet tribe is lawyers, and they always have video cams with them. Assaulting them WILL get you sued. If you feel you MUST approach them closely (pointless, IMHO) it would be wise to have your own video rolling. I’m sure these scum would be happy to manufacture reason to sue.
It’s like wrestling with pigs. They have nothing to lose, you have nothing to gain, you’ll get up covered in mud and pig feces, and the pig likes it.
Nick, you are confusing the WBC’s deliberate harassment with political speech. It isn’t that what Phelps and his crew is disgusting, it is that they do it in a time, place, and manner to harass others they don’t like. (And saying ‘thank god for IEDs’ or ‘god hates fags’ at someone’s funeral is an obvious attempt to be harassing.)
Put aside you concerns over Obama and his fellow leftists, and see the WBC’s actions for what they are. Telling people not to hurl insults at a funeral is not going to harm freedom of speech.
My god, what have we come to when demanding a modicum of decency is seen as destroying constitutional liberties…
That would be a very bad day for the police, for if I were moved to assault the Phelps crew, the assault would likely be meant to be fatal.
Nevertheless, CLD, most police officers are ture professionals and will carry out their duties asuch, regardless of how much the person you want to pound into the dirt richly deserves it.
Indeed, Tully. But there are bound to be consequences when the law and its officials insist on protecting the guilty at the expense of the innocent.