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The Gay Left’s Newest Member

Posted by ColoradoPatriot at 10:25 pm - April 17, 2010.
Filed under: Gay PC Silliness,Gay Victimization

Okay. So have you heard of this story where the high school girl who wanted to attend the prom with her “lesbian girlfriend” (I use the quotes because, really. Call me an old stick-in-the-mud*, but are high-schoolers self-aware enough to realize they’re lesbians already? And even if so, are we encouraging kids that young to identify themselves sexually? What ever happened to the innocence and beauty of youth? Ugh, but anyway.) was duped into arriving at some sham event while the actual prom was being held somewhere else?

Well, far be it from me to pick on a kid, so let me just get this straight:

Let’s presume the high school has at least a couple hundred kids, and that a bunch of them likely attended this “stealth” prom, right? And somehow, therefore, they were able to keep this girl completely in the dark about the whole thing? Like none of the high-school kids involved spilled the beans? She was totally unable to figure out that the entire school was in on the joke except her (and, apparently a couple “students with learning difficulties”)?

Hm… Seems to me, she’s exactly the sort of inquisitive, self-introspective, get-down-to-the-bottom-of-it, fact-checker and independent thinker that the gay Left is dying to recruit. Surely they’ll be glad to have her.

Additionally, let’s note that her reaction was to broadcast far and wide to anybody willing to listen that she’d been completely punked and embarrassed through her gullibility in hopes of garnering sympathy, rather than reflecting on how she could have been so credulous. This will likely also find her kindred spirits in the movement.

Best of luck with that!

-Nick (ColoradoPatriot, from TML)

*And if you do choose to call me “an old stick-in-the-mud”, you’re clearly more of a fuddy-duddy than I am.

UPDATE (from Dan):  This is an issue which I chose to ignore when I first read about it.  I have a different take on this than does Nick, though we do share some common ground.  I had hoped to take the weekend off from blogging to focus on my friends and my dissertation, but do expect to offer up my thoughts.

That said, while I disagree with Nick’s take, I’m amazed (well, by this time, with the gay left I shouldn’t be) at the extent to which our leftist critics refuse to acknowledge our points and so readily rush to the “self-hatred” slur.  Nick may have an unusual opinion.   He may even be wrong in this case, but he is surely not self-loathing, so, guys keep your comments civil and show some respect for “unfamiliar” opinions.

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108 Comments

  1. This is the first time you’ve ever written anything that really got under my skin, but I was damn well sure that I was gay somewhere around ages 11 or 12 and you’re questioning a teenager?! For me, the whole point of the whole gay rights movement is to someday live in a society where 12 year olds like I me (I’m 40 now) would be able to self-identify as gay and not worry about how bad the consequences might be for doing so. And if we really lived in that sort of society, that 12 year old kid could be free to change his mind at some point and decide he was mistaken. So, to answer your questions, yes, high schoolers certainly are aware enough to know if they are gay or straight, and, no, I wouldn’t encourage a teenager to identify their sexual orientation if we lived in a society where no one gave a rats ass which way you go. As things stand now, when you’re a teenager and you’re growing up in a conservative Bible-thumping fundamentalist world, and you realize you’re gay, there are all sorts of emotional bumps in the road that need to be dealt with, not the least of which is listening to the pastor of your church (which in my case was my own father) tell you that you are evil and you’re going to hel. But, because you’re scared, you shove it all under the rug. I could write a book…geez

    Comment by Eddie — April 17, 2010 @ 11:22 pm - April 17, 2010

  2. I didn’t finish….I desparately needed to come out in order to deal with all the emotional baggage but I was too scared. God only knows what they would have done to me if I had, but my teenage years were a loss because of all the emotional turmoil that I held inside. Do not tell me that a teenager can’t know.

    Comment by Eddie — April 17, 2010 @ 11:25 pm - April 17, 2010

  3. Wow, Nick. Couldn’t be farther off the mark.

    First, she was told that the prom was going to be one place. Many other students and parents set up a prom at another place.

    –So there’s the “stealth prom” portion of the story.

    Second, she heard about the prom at the other place, the one she hadn’t been invited to, and instead of crashing that party, she realized that she wasn’t wanted there and went to the one she had been told to attend.

    –So, no, she wasn’t “in the dark” as you incredulously write. She knew they’d done it to her.

    Third, the prom she attended had only a few students present, most of them part of the “learning disabled” program. Nobody had bothered to invite them to the other prom either.

    Fourth, contrary to your parting shot, she did in fact reflect on the fake prom incident, saying “If I wasn’t wanted there [at the other prom], I wasn’t going to go.”

    Finally, she’s a teenager. Mocking her (even if your mockery had a basis in truth, which it doesn’t) for not being an “inquisitive, self-introspective, get-down-to-the-bottom-of-it, fact-checker and independent thinker” is a low blow, particularly coming from an “old stick-in-the-mud” who should have better sense than to pick on an teenager for doing what teenagers do by nature: think first about their own drama and believe that everything happening to them is the most important and profound thing that has ever happened to them. (In many cases, they should be excused for believing that anyways. They’re teens; most of their experiences are “first time” events making them definitionally the most profound and important things that ever happened to them. Teens have no other experiences to temper the impact of something new.)

    In short, this post is shameful vitriol spewed at a teenager who has taken enough flak for this incident already.

    Comment by Gabriel Malor — April 17, 2010 @ 11:26 pm - April 17, 2010

  4. Nick, I’m sorry but you’re way off base on this one. I’m older than you, I’m sure I may be a fuddy, but Gabriel and Eddie have made the correct points. I usually agree with you, but not this time. I think you owe this young woman an apology.

    Comment by John in Dublin CA — April 17, 2010 @ 11:45 pm - April 17, 2010

  5. Eddie: Fair enough points, but as a youth (and I’m your age), I was more concerned about passing classes and whether or not people “liked” me (ugh!). It’s only in retrospect that I ever realized that I was gay. Now, I’m not going to get into the vagaries of human psycho-sexual development (I’m certainly NOT qualified to do so anyway), but my paranthetical was only meant as a wish that we lived (to counter your point) in an environment wherein kids could feel free to concern themselves with whether or not they’ll beat Central High this weekend, rather than if these weird feelings they’re having will have any sort of etherial effects on their development as sexual beings. Much like the nature/nurture argument, perhaps my aside on the topic should have been left out, or at best, taken as its own topic for another thread altogether.

    And, clearly you’re the fuddy duddy ;-)

    And, Gabriel:

    Your comment makes no sense. Your confirmation that the prom was “going to be one place. Many other students and parents set up a prom at another place” pretty much is definitively “stealth”.

    And that you call my description of it as having been “in the dark” as “incredulous” (I think you mean “credulous”, but who am I to correct you?) is pretty much belied by the same quote of yours that I use in the previous paragraph. Are you reading along your own words before you press the “submit” button?

    Clearly you have information that refutes the account in the article to which I refer that describes the “stealth” prom as being executed “behind her back”. Is there a way in which this was known fully to her, and yet pulled off “behind her back”? I’d be glad to retract and correct myself if you have information that shows that she was fully aware, but simply told she couldn’t attend the party to which all her classmates went.

    Finally, about the “flak”, this young lady has become the cause célèbre for the gay Left, and that is the shameful thing. That they (and presumably her parents) are willing to hold this event up as a way of advancing the agenda of victimization so popular on the gay Left at the expense of her youth is the true scandal here (and the point of my post). Had this girl (sorry, Eddie) not been egged on by a society that so embraces the sexualization of children and sensationalization of victimhood, she’d likely have gone to her prom and danced around awkwardly like the rest of the silly kids to the obnoxious “music” (like we all did at prom) and saved her drama for another time when she was mature enough to understand it.

    As it is, unfortunately, the gay Left victimization mentality insists that she must be made an example, lest they lack martyrs for their attempt to shame America into believing their way.

    Comment by ColoradoPatriot — April 17, 2010 @ 11:55 pm - April 17, 2010

  6. I am definitely an old fuddy-duddy and I haven’t followed this story at all, but my goodness, I had crushes on guys by the time I was in 5th or 6th grade….I have to believe most people, regardless of their orientation, probably have it figured out by the time they’re in high school, and sooner than that most likely.

    Comment by MissTammy — April 18, 2010 @ 12:46 am - April 18, 2010

  7. Jeez Louise…
    Is this post a joke? She should have known??? Its her fault that her community is a pack of bigoted jackass bullies???? She is stupid????

    Gawd. You are not just a “fuddy-duddy” but this post makes you appear to be a horrible human.

    Comment by gillie — April 18, 2010 @ 12:47 am - April 18, 2010

  8. Nick. You are 100 percent correct. It the writers of the comments that better reread what they wrote.

    Comment by John W — April 18, 2010 @ 1:17 am - April 18, 2010

  9. “But are high-schoolers self-aware enough to realize they’re lesbians already?” Yes, Nick, they are. If I was that self-aware in 1965 then I’m sure today’s kids are too. That was a real jaw dropper of a rhetorical question.

    Comment by PCR — April 18, 2010 @ 1:26 am - April 18, 2010

  10. I cannot disagree more. Most people can tell if they’re gay or straight. If not, relationships would never develop at that age. It’s certainly not all peer pressure!

    I hope this post turns out to be some not-well-thought-out joke, or a drunken bad decision. Yeesh!

    Comment by Jason — April 18, 2010 @ 1:44 am - April 18, 2010

  11. Third, the prom she attended had only a few students present, most of them part of the “learning disabled” program. Nobody had bothered to invite them to the other prom either.

    The original statement made was this:

    Two students with learning difficulties were among the seven people at the country club event, McMillen recalls.

    That is far different from these students a) being part of the “learning disabled” program, and b) not being invited to the other gathering.

    So if we’re going to claim that these people were “learning-disabled” and that they were not invited to the other gathering, then there needs to be far more evidence provided.

    In the absence of that, I would simply state that Constance was trying to play to class-action victimization. She didn’t have the usual race card that gay leftist professional victims usually prefer to play, since there clearly were plenty of minority members at the other prom, so she had to dig deep into the barrel and use a loaded term like “learning difficulties”, which is quite easily transmuted if one is not careful into “learning-disabled”.

    Finally, she’s a teenager.

    No, she’s not. She is 18 years old, which makes her an adult in the legal sense. If she wants to act like an adult, she can take adult consequences instead of whining and crying that she shouldn’t be held accountable for her behaviors, such as filing lawsuits.

    One which, as a matter of fact, points out why she was making such a fuss.

    U.S. District Judge Glen Davidson noted that McMillen has been openly gay since she was in the eighth grade and that she intended to communicate a message by wearing a tuxedo and escorting another girl to the dance

    .

    In short, her entire point in doing this, as she stated under oath to a judge, was to force a political statement at a high school prom. Her intention was to make this prom all about her, her own public gay pride parade, and she was going to sue the school and her classmates into providing her an audience or skip their own prom.

    And they did. Her classmates chose to skip their own school prom and do their own thing elsewhere, as is their right. Nothing pisses off a drama queen more than lack of an audience, and that is why she is flying around trying to scream about how much of a “victim” she is and how evil her classmates are for refusing to play her little game.

    Tough cookies. She might as well grow up and learn that the world doesn’t revolve around her. Of course, the longer she stays a darling of the gay left, the longer she can avoid that and continue in her perpetual adolescent state.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 2:03 am - April 18, 2010

  12. For me, the whole point of the whole gay rights movement is to someday live in a society where 12 year olds like I me (I’m 40 now) would be able to self-identify as gay and not worry about how bad the consequences might be for doing so. And if we really lived in that sort of society, that 12 year old kid could be free to change his mind at some point and decide he was mistaken.

    Um, if sexual orientation is automatic and innate and you “know” right away, why would there be any mind-changing involved?

    I totally agree with Nick on this one. At age 12, sexual orientation was the last thing on my mind. Sure, it’s tempting in retrospect to look back and blame all the travails of adolescence on being gay, but to be perfectly honest, I think they were far more a part of being a teenager, which means you are prone to hormonal swings, melodramatics, and incredibly-dumb decisions.

    Constance whines that all of her classmates are bigots. What I think is more likely is that they’re judging her on the content of her character, and stating that a person who wants to sue the school district so that she can make a political statement at a high school prom is a jerk.

    Case in point:

    Is this post a joke? She should have known??? Its her fault that her community is a pack of bigoted jackass bullies???? She is stupid????

    How wonderful. Constance has found an entire community that will support and endorse whatever she does, regardless of how inane or stupid it is, because she is a lesbian — and who will call anyone who disagrees with her, regardless of how wrong she is or how right they are, a “pack of bigoted jackass bullies”.

    Gillie, why do you assume Constance is blameless because she is a lesbian? Do you have the capability to actually judge character, or are you simply making a decision based solely on her claimed sexual minority status?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 2:11 am - April 18, 2010

  13. How is taking someone you like to a school dance a political statement? Yeah, she’s being “edgy” and “in your face”, but it’s not like a woman’s never worn a tuxedo before. I think the school turned it into one when they tried to cancel the prom because they wanted to prevent a same-sex couple from attending.

    I mean, really, it sounds like you’re advocating that students shut up and conform, and never make waves.

    Comment by Jason — April 18, 2010 @ 2:30 am - April 18, 2010

  14. How is taking someone you like to a school dance a political statement?

    As cited before, that was not what she stated to a judge under oath her intentions were.

    U.S. District Judge Glen Davidson noted that McMillen has been openly gay since she was in the eighth grade and that she intended to communicate a message by wearing a tuxedo and escorting another girl to the dance.

    You are refusing to deal with the issue. She stated that her whole intention in this was to “communicate a message”. She was attempting to use the school prom as a platform for her political beliefs and force them on her classmates. She demanded the “right” to violate the dress code for her political demonstration purposes. And now she is upset and whining because her classmates refused to play along and her school district refused to allow her to co-opt the prom for her political purposes.

    Again, Jason, why do you refuse to in any way hold Candace responsible? Why does her status as a lesbian put her beyond criticism? Why do you adamantly refuse to judge her by the content of her character simply because she claims to be a lesbia even as you trash her school and her classmates as being homophobes?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 2:50 am - April 18, 2010

  15. I mean, really, it sounds like you’re advocating that students shut up and conform, and never make waves.

    So when a student is deliberately disruptive or deliberately violates the dress code to make a political statement, schools have no right to intervene because that would be making students “shut up and conform”.

    Or is that only straight students, and lesbian and gay students can break whatever rules and be as disruptive as they want?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 2:56 am - April 18, 2010

  16. She stated that her whole intention in this was to “communicate a message”.

    Ok, I stand corrected… assuming the school district’s argument was that they couldn’t allow a woman to wear a tuxedo.

    Or is that only straight students, and lesbian and gay students can break whatever rules and be as disruptive as they want?

    Now you’re exaggerating my statement into a straw man. I’ll put my argument into terms you may be more familiar with: you’re saying Rosa Parks should’ve stood up. She was deliberately disruptive. She broke the law.

    Comment by Jason — April 18, 2010 @ 3:20 am - April 18, 2010

  17. Again, Jason, why do you refuse to in any way hold Candace responsible?

    I’m just going to say this: OF COURSE SHE’S RESPONSIBLE.

    Now that we agree on that, can we move on and talk about how sensible it is to oppose an unjust rule enforced by a school district?

    Comment by Jason — April 18, 2010 @ 3:24 am - April 18, 2010

  18. Fucking god, Nick, what kind of monstrous self-loathing piece of shit are you?

    Comment by Evan Hurst — April 18, 2010 @ 3:37 am - April 18, 2010

  19. Aww, one of the pusses deleted my comment.

    Do the potty wowds offend the poow self-woathing faggots at Gay Patwiot?

    I’ll screen cap them for future fun.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — April 18, 2010 @ 4:09 am - April 18, 2010

  20. If the “other”/cool kids prom was not a school-organized, school-sanctioned event, well, there IS such a thing as freedom-of-association (or not.) Constance is SOL.

    Comment by Howee — April 18, 2010 @ 6:39 am - April 18, 2010

  21. Too much ink has been spilled over this little attention whore.

    Comment by DoDoGuRu — April 18, 2010 @ 7:21 am - April 18, 2010

  22. Wow folks. Really? What I think is probably the last thing on her mind is politics, Democracts, Liberal Lefties, Right Wingnuts, Gay Patriots, etc.

    You’re saying that a teenager does not have sexual orientation on their mind? Seriously? Prom is the first thing on every high schooler’s mind, and to go with the person you want to go with is high priority. Maybe there are some folks who are using her situation to exploit political issues (Gay Patriots included?) but I really don’t see her situation as out of the ordinary.

    I was pining after Leroy Johnson on Fame at the age of 5.

    Comment by James Younce — April 18, 2010 @ 10:27 am - April 18, 2010

  23. [...] The Gay Left’s Newest Member [...]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » Whew! Okay, So Now To Constance Herself: — April 18, 2010 @ 10:34 am - April 18, 2010

  24. Wow. You only further prove being a gay conservative is an intense oxymoron. Be supportive of your fellow gays, not critical.

    Comment by Henry — April 18, 2010 @ 10:39 am - April 18, 2010

  25. The left sees gay people. the right sees people who just happen to be gay.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — April 18, 2010 @ 10:41 am - April 18, 2010

  26. James, did you read the statement?

    Jason, Yes Rosa Parks broke the law. She didn’t sue in court to sit in the front of the bus. It was the act of civil disobedience that brought attention. She accepted the consequences of breaking the law.

    Constance, if the accounts are correct, wanted to break the dress code. She then sued to change the law, rather than have the law changed legislatively. That’s the difference. She wanted to disrupt the prom to make a statement; Rosa Parks was tired and didn’t want to get up.

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 18, 2010 @ 11:09 am - April 18, 2010

  27. I think this whole incident shows something drastically lacking in the gay rights movment-courage. If you look at the civil rights movement that gay leftists always say their movement is an extension of, you see leaders and activists who were constantly threatened, beaten, and all too often killed for their beliefs. Somehow, the activists of the gay organizations have avoided this fate.

    Compare the fate of a black student who challenged the status quo to this girl, who’s gotten-invitations to pride parades and thousands of dollars for her trouble.

    Comment by NY_Ally — April 18, 2010 @ 11:12 am - April 18, 2010

  28. I don’t get why you think an 18 year would have an idea about their sexuality, I was pretty close to figuring out mine by at least 15 and had a much better understanding at 18. I think that line of argument is pretty flimsy when if she were taking her “straight boyfriend” I doubt I would see a comment about, does she really know what she is?

    I guess I take a offense to it more cause I was 18 only about 5 years ago, and the idea I didn’t know what I was just bothers me.

    Comment by darkeyedresolve — April 18, 2010 @ 1:01 pm - April 18, 2010

  29. I am just floored. This girl should be encouraged and praised for being willing to make a stand as a homosexual in an unfriendly environment to further our cause. I am essentially trans and knew I wanted to marry a girl before I even knew what sex was. Kids of all ages have boyfriends and girlfriends. By saying that her being self-identified as a lesbian at such a young age is somehow wrong means you are doing the same thing our enemies do, seeing the issue as nothing more than a sex act.

    My entire childhood and teenage years were stolen from me because I lived in a bigoted world. If only I could have had a girlfriend in those days, let alone go to prom.

    You complain about the lefties stepping up and using her for publicity. Where are the conservative gay advocacy groups that fight for our kids and families? All I have seen of the conservative, republican gays is bitching about the left as they fool themselves into thinking that mainstream conservatives will ever accept you.

    What are you guys doing to help our people? To protect our children? To secure our rights as Americans and human beings?

    This ‘teenager’ has done more for gay rights with her one act than any of you have done on this blog today, or ever from what I have seen.

    I was hoping to find some like-minded gays out there since I am a conservative but if this is what it means to be a gay conservative, constantly attacking our own people as if we were Limbaugh mini-me’s just because they lean left….then I’ll go hang with the lefties. At least THEY are doing something for me and my wife. All you guys do is bitch about your own kind.

    Pathetic.

    This girl is single-handedly making her community address the gay issue…kudos to her and shame on you guys!

    Comment by NIck — April 18, 2010 @ 1:39 pm - April 18, 2010

  30. You are a coward to pick on an 18-year-old girl. Proud of yourself?

    Comment by homer — April 18, 2010 @ 3:12 pm - April 18, 2010

  31. I agree with #22, we will be arguing about this for a long time. It just sounds like a bunch of confusion and the outcome is which ever gets the most attention.

    Comment by jann — April 18, 2010 @ 3:13 pm - April 18, 2010

  32. Wow, wow, wow. Have you LOST it? I never thought I’d see the day when gay men would willingly jump down the throat of a teenaged GLBT person victimized by the Straight world. Come on. And you guys are comparing this to Rosa Parks? Don’t get me wrong, civil disobedience is a great tool, but the girl just wanted to go to Prom. My perspective on the matter is that regardless of what official action she took, she stood up against what the hell happened to her. I don’t give a damn if she sued the school or not, to me it all arouses the same result — reason for change. She got national attention on an issue that most of America wasn’t even under the radar, and yet she still managed to make it an issue. She illustrated how early discrimination starts for gay people in a personal sense. This is shameful: would you really be so cruel as to question your own child’s credulity? I mean, yes she ‘got duped.’ What they did to her was shameful. Would you tell your own kid “well you shouldn’t have fallen for it?” I thought parents would fight for their kids, give the school hell, and be an example to not take shit from people’s prejudice. If Rosa Parks was thinking anything when she sat down in the front seat, she was thinking about every damn day she’d have to walk to the back of the bus without a word otherwise; I know the hell I would. If Constance McMillen was thinking anything about being duped by fag haters, she was thinking about how to get maintain her dignity: that includes making a fuckin’ commotion. It’s not civil disobedience, may not be a damn MESSIAH, but it certainly is BALLSY. And she has Kudos from me.

    Comment by Shocker2010 — April 18, 2010 @ 3:41 pm - April 18, 2010

  33. In short, her entire point in doing this, as she stated under oath to a judge, was to force a political statement at a high school prom. Her intention was to make this prom all about her, her own public gay pride parade, and she was going to sue the school and her classmates into providing her an audience or skip their own prom.

    i think you’re writing beyond the text, attributing an egomaniacal motivation where none may exist. the article says that a judge made note of this, but i don’t find a reference to constance saying that was her intention. so find the quote or i call shenanigans. and also, even if that was her intention, what of it?

    Comment by StSean — April 18, 2010 @ 4:00 pm - April 18, 2010

  34. Just so you-all can have an historical perspective on awareness of one’s sexual preference: I knew I was attracted to members of the same sex at age 5 — that was in 1943. I also “knew” that it was not “acceptable” — can’t tell you how that knowledge arrived.

    Truly ancient fuddy-duddy

    Comment by laguna — April 18, 2010 @ 4:08 pm - April 18, 2010

  35. After reading this and some of your other opinions, I don’t think you have a gay bone in your body. You are an angry, straight white man who hasn’t got a clue about what it means to be gay.

    Comment by Jim Long — April 18, 2010 @ 4:23 pm - April 18, 2010

  36. So attacking is high school girl for being a lesbian is standing up for “freedom and fairness?” I think I know who has his head up his ass and it’s not the liberal gay left.

    Comment by GPMIII — April 18, 2010 @ 4:30 pm - April 18, 2010

  37. Sexuality clearly starts to develop during the teenage years. Nobody goes up to heterosexual teens and asks them if they are self-aware enough to know that they are heterosexuals. Gay people start to notice their attraction to the same sex at the same time that straight people begin to have crushes on the opposite sex.
    I’ve known very solidly since I was 16 that I am a lesbian, and in the years since this has not changed one bit. And if I hadn’t been lying to myself for years before that I could have known since I was 13. In the teenage years we reach sexual maturity. It doesn’t mean that it’s time to start having families and sex and babies, but we DEFINITELY begin to experience sexual attraction.

    Comment by Eva — April 18, 2010 @ 5:01 pm - April 18, 2010

  38. Don’t get me wrong, civil disobedience is a great tool, but the girl just wanted to go to Prom.

    Actually, that’s not what she told the judge she wanted.

    U.S. District Judge Glen Davidson noted that McMillen has been openly gay since she was in the eighth grade and that she intended to communicate a message by wearing a tuxedo and escorting another girl to the dance.

    She stated that her whole intention in this was to “communicate a message”. She was attempting to use the school prom as a platform for her political beliefs and force them on her classmates. She demanded the “right” to violate the dress code for her political demonstration purposes. And now she is upset and whining because her classmates refused to play along and her school district refused to allow her to co-opt the prom for her political purposes.

    And this one was a doozy.

    I thought parents would fight for their kids, give the school hell, and be an example to not take shit from people’s prejudice.

    Actually, when you act like Constance and file lawsuits against everyone who refuses to give you an audience or allow you to break the rules and co-opt a high school prom to make a political statement, most people would see you as being the prejudiced one, not them.

    Therein lies the problem here. The gay and lesbian community supports and endorses the behavior, no matter how inane or stupid, of anyone who claims to be gay or lesbian — and then demonizes as “fag-haters” anyone who would dare hold the gay or lesbian person responsible to everyday standards of behavior.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 5:02 pm - April 18, 2010

  39. I am a little late in making my comment but I have been thinking about it very much and wondering how to present it. Many of you wrote that you knew when your were 8,12,16 etc. that you were gay. I disagree and I will go back to the 1930s and 40s to prove my point. I will not use the real names although most of the persons that I am writing about are now dead.

    Larry and Tim were very close friends while teenagers. They were deeply into sex (no pun). Both of them married and became fathers. When I saw them last they were grandfathers and living with the woman that they married.

    I had a very close friend until he died at 16. Then I had another good friend up until I went into the Service in 1941. I am sure these days we would have been called gays, Queers etc. He then joined the Marines. We did not see each other again until we were 24 or more. He was engaged to a nurse. The next time that I saw him, I took my girlfriend and we spent the night with him and his wife and little girl. There certainly no sexual desire between the two of us to get together again.

    Then there was Tom 2 years younger than me. He was girl crazy. My younger sister said that she had to hold onto a neighbor’s fence to keep him from pulling her into a dark corner. One girl did become pregrant and Tom was supposed to be the father. He got married very early and after 5 years he was devorced. Recently I was told that he is gay.

    I recently read a book on the brain. It stated that the brain is not fully developed until you are in the mid 20s and you may change you mind frequently up until then. How many students do you know changed their courses after getting into college? And I was a Democrat until I was 25!!

    Comment by John W — April 18, 2010 @ 5:06 pm - April 18, 2010

  40. “are high-schoolers self-aware enough to realize they’re lesbians already? And even if so, are we encouraging kids that young to identify themselves sexually?”

    So does that mean you think straight high-schoolers are too young to know if they are straight, too?

    Comment by Eshto — April 18, 2010 @ 5:08 pm - April 18, 2010

  41. How in the hell does a gay man have the nerve to question a young lesbian’s ability to know who she’s attracted to and what her sexual orientation is??? Is this not what all these years of coming out of closets, PFLAG, Pride celebrations, the Names Project, AIDS awareness and the fight for LGBT civil rights have been about? So that our young people don’t have to suffer the shame we did, or wonder if there’s something “wrong” with them when they aren’t like everyone else? Aren’t we trying to make the world safe for homosexual kids? I thought we were.

    Of course young people know what their sexual orientation is, whether they call it that or not. Were you never young?? Young people have crushes, attractions, heartbreaks and all the other preambles to mature relationships … straight kids are attracted to opposite gender kids … gay kids are attracted to same gender kids. These days they have an easier time naming and accepting that, and that’s a GOOD thing.

    As far as the way you belittled, castigated and attempted to further embarrass this young woman? I’m not even touching that. That was just loathsome.

    Comment by Kwach — April 18, 2010 @ 5:08 pm - April 18, 2010

  42. If she didn’t want to be ostracized for doing this, she could have simply not stated certain parts of the intentions (i.e., the tuxedo thing) early on. I’m certainly sure that showing up in a tuxedo would have been more effective in the long run than simply saying earlier on that she was planning on doing so.

    It was the school board’s call on whether or not to continue having the prom, especially if it was acting as a voice for the greater community. Members of the school act as parents to their students and are expected to maintain the status quo as they see fit.

    Though I would very strongly argue about the ability to know sexuality at a young age (I can certainly trace my own bisexuality and fluid movements within sexuality since I was about three or four), I do believe that this girl is praised for being herself more than she ought to be. She put herself in a position to be strongly ostracized by her peers (beyond what she might have already been experiencing) and to screw things up for her friends. Her actions were not as justified as they have been made out to be and they are being rewarded with a gay prom for kids throughout the state. If these celebrities had come together and just thrown the private prom for her school in the first place, I’m sure she’d be seen much more as a local hero than she is now.

    Comment by Zil — April 18, 2010 @ 5:15 pm - April 18, 2010

  43. Is this a real site? Or is it like a gay Onion site? It’s satire, right?

    Comment by Todd — April 18, 2010 @ 6:02 pm - April 18, 2010

  44. So Shocker,

    You feel that a Fred Phelps type should be allowed to come into a meeting of folks dealing with AIDS and scream and rant and rave without penalty?

    She wanted to turn the school prom into her own little protest. And ruined everyone else’s time because of it.

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 18, 2010 @ 6:25 pm - April 18, 2010

  45. wow you are TRULY a douchebag.

    Comment by Nunya Bizness — April 18, 2010 @ 6:30 pm - April 18, 2010

  46. A breathtakingly fucked up post. Of course high school students are capable of understanding their sexual orientation. I understood mine when I was 13 years old. This young lady is doing something that will help ensure that other young people are able to live their lives openly, honestly, and without shame.

    Thanks for holding on to an unwavering inability to move beyond ideology, regardless of the consequences.

    Comment by Mark — April 18, 2010 @ 6:39 pm - April 18, 2010

  47. Actually, Livewire, I’d go even farther; what Constance did was the equivalent of Fred Phelps demanding that people reinstate a cancelled event so that he could make his political statement, then trying to sue people for choosing to plan and go to another one.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 6:57 pm - April 18, 2010

  48. Sexualizing young kids is about the worst thing leftist militants can do. For decades we’ve had to fight the image that we’re pedophiles trying to recruit kids. Leave it to the idiot Demoncrats who run LGBT organizations to try and cash in on high schoolers. Leave the kids alone and let them live out their childhoods without projecting your lifestyle on them!

    Comment by Mateo1970 — April 18, 2010 @ 7:23 pm - April 18, 2010

  49. “So does that mean you think straight high-schoolers are too young to know if they are straight, too?”

    Typical liberal claptrap. Kids in high school are interested in playing sports, listening to music, and having fun with friends. When are we going to stop pushing our own agenda on them? When you’re a teenager, the last thing you’re thinking about is sex – much less knowing your sexual preference.

    Comment by Mateo1970 — April 18, 2010 @ 7:29 pm - April 18, 2010

  50. Can someone point me to concrete evidence that Constance intended to “rant and rave” with out penalty? ND30′s overused quote is also being misused. She stated (and I haven’t double-checked the veracity of this quote) that she intended to communicate the message that bringing a same-sex date to her prom was okay, by bringing her girlfriend and wearing a tuxedo.

    I have seen *zero* circumstantial evidence that she intended to push some political agenda. Was she intending on standing on the gym stage, forcing the music to stop, scream she was a lesbian and damn proud, while planting an obscene kiss on her date?

    Yes, she sued the school after they denied her a right that had been granted to heterosexual students. She didn’t seek to make her high school prom “all about her,” the school district did when they choose to discriminate against her.

    When a gay kid asked to bring his boyfriend to prom, a Georgia High School approved. No discrimination, no bigotry, no lawsuit, no drama.

    The school picked their battle.

    John W (and those that agree with him) you do realize that people mature at different rates, and that you’re experiences in life don’t mirror everyone’s?

    Comment by Leonard — April 18, 2010 @ 7:35 pm - April 18, 2010

  51. People are comparing Constance to Fred Phelps… Wow >.>

    Comment by Leonard — April 18, 2010 @ 7:38 pm - April 18, 2010

  52. Y’all are some cold-hearted people. You want to throw this child in with the old jaded souls who are consumed with politics. I don’t think so.

    And if the meeting of folks dealing with AIDS is in a public place & is open to the general public because it is funded by tax dollars as schools are, then yes by all means (within the laws that exist) Phelps should absolutely have the right to attend such a meeting in protest.

    This girl wanted to bring her gf & wear a tux – other girlfriends were brought by other attendants & other attendants were allowed to wear tuxes – so I don’t see what policy she violated. Y’all are a mess lol

    Comment by James Younce — April 18, 2010 @ 7:44 pm - April 18, 2010

  53. That would mean that high school students are not self-aware enough to be heterosexual either. Yet, we know of many practicing heterosexuals who meet in high school, marry and live together from then on.

    The real issue here is why do we have a brother/sister gay group working against our movement and using arguments gleaned from large, anti-gay pressure groups? If gay people want to be conservative, more power to them. But they should be working for conservative causes and not promoting the immoral anti-gay agenda which has nothing to do with real conservatism.

    Comment by Michael — April 18, 2010 @ 8:01 pm - April 18, 2010

  54. You are refusing to deal with the issue. She stated that her whole intention in this was to “communicate a message”. She was attempting to use the school prom as a platform for her political beliefs and force them on her classmates. She demanded the “right” to violate the dress code for her political demonstration purposes. And now she is upset and whining because her classmates refused to play along and her school district refused to allow her to co-opt the prom for her political purposes.

    Actually, if you take a close look, you are quoting the judge, not Constance:

    U.S. District Judge Glen Davidson noted that McMillen has been openly gay since she was in the eighth grade and that she intended to communicate a message by wearing a tuxedo and escorting another girl to the dance.

    YOU are jumping to conclusions. Even if the judge’s words are completely accurate, she didn’t say that her “whole intention” was to “communicate a message.” That could well be one of her intentions, but to conclude that it was her “whole intention” is quite a stretch.

    You simply can’t stand that this girl wanted to go to prom with her date of choice and refuse to accept that the whole incident would never have happened if the school administration hadn’t decided to pass moral judgement against homosexuality.

    The school district co-opted the prom for political purposes when they made the decision to cancel prom rather than simply allow a student to bring a same-sex date.

    Also, according to the students at this school, they didn’t care one way or the other who Constance brought to prom or how she dressed. They didn’t “refuse to play along.” They were never given the option to “play along.” The decision to cancel prom was made entirely without input from the students.

    As a side-note, does the school district actually have a written dress code which disallows girls wearing a tuxedo to prom? If so, please provide evidence. That’s pretty specific rule, and I find it hard to believe these administrators had the forethought to anticipate that at somepoint a female student would want to attend prom in a tux.

    Finally, you insist that Constance was “attempting to use the prom as a platform for her political beliefs.” While I doubt this is entirely true, my question is: SO WHAT?

    If one accepts your concept that bringing a same-sex date to prom is a political statement, then so is bringing an opposite-sex date. And so is refusing to allow same-sex dates by cancelling the event altogether. But apparently you have no problem supporting those political beliefs–just the ones which aren’t discriminatory.

    Comment by StudioTodd — April 18, 2010 @ 8:08 pm - April 18, 2010

  55. Is this like the gay version of The Onion, or is the author of this blog really that wacked out?

    Comment by sumdude — April 18, 2010 @ 8:42 pm - April 18, 2010

  56. Wow, dude, are you ever clueless, or what is your problem? You are Eff’d Up in the head.

    All that young Constance wanted to do was to take her date to the prom like everyone else. The school is the party that blew this up to the sky, not Constance.

    You have serious cognitive problems.

    Comment by Tom — April 18, 2010 @ 9:14 pm - April 18, 2010

  57. John W makes a good point. Most kids don’t figure out their sexual orientation until they are well into their 20′s. The point is that it’s a big commitment to really decide you want to pursue an alternative lifestyle and we have no right trying to influence young kids like this just because we want “more meat in the mix”. C’mon folks, give these young kids a break and quit trying to label them in order to justify your lifestyle.

    Comment by Mateo1970 — April 18, 2010 @ 9:16 pm - April 18, 2010

  58. I find this post and some of the comments here to be beneath contempt. I’m surprised and disappointed to see this from you, Nick.

    Comment by John — April 18, 2010 @ 9:47 pm - April 18, 2010

  59. although this is a tad bit dated. . .

    Good move: Louisiana principal bars Gay from bringing date to Prom

    ——————————————————————————–
    Louisiana- Oilman writes:

    He made the right decision and was preserving the traditional American faith and family value system. The girl or lesbian wanting to bring a date was deplorabe and sets a bad standard for ethics. Gays should not be allowed at these functions. As always, the Jewish backed ACLU always steps in.

    http://www.wdsu.com/news/16186531/detail.html

    ——————————————————————————–
    Last edited by Louisiana-Oilman; 05-07-2008 at 10:35 AM

    http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/34874-good-move-louisiana-principle-bars-gay-bringing-date-prom.html

    Comment by rusty — April 18, 2010 @ 10:09 pm - April 18, 2010

  60. 29: You sem to forget that throughout American history, people have done things to “communicate a message” so that people in the future could do it as a matter of happenstance.

    Then again, I’m not surprised by certain supporters here doing their best to attack an 18 year old who wants to attend her prom.

    9: Amen! What a nonsensical statement in the original post. Seems like some people can’t remember what it was like to be a teenager.

    Comment by Kevin — April 18, 2010 @ 10:17 pm - April 18, 2010

  61. Wow, Colorado Patriot, are you sure you’re gay? Conservative, I got, but gay? You either have the most internalized homophobia I’ve seen in a very long time, or you are not really gay. You are talking not like a gay conservative but like a plant of the radical right wing fringe.

    Comment by Ambrose Davis — April 18, 2010 @ 10:55 pm - April 18, 2010

  62. What a mean post. I can’t begin to imagine why a gay person would attack a young lesbian woman in this way. I really can’t.

    Comment by Kat — April 18, 2010 @ 11:20 pm - April 18, 2010

  63. Y’all are some cold-hearted people. You want to throw this child in with the old jaded souls who are consumed with politics.

    Given that her whole point in this was to commandeer a high school prom for her political message, it seems rather obvious that she is consumed with politics. I guess being a lesbian wasn’t getting her the attention she needs.

    I find this post and some of the comments here to be beneath contempt.

    Good. Glad you agree with your new friends on the gay left.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 11:28 pm - April 18, 2010

  64. What a mean post. I can’t begin to imagine why a gay person would attack a young lesbian woman in this way. I really can’t.

    Of course not. It is beyond your concept or capability to criticize the behavior of another gay or lesbian person if they do something stupid. After all, you’ve been conditioned to believe that any criticism of a gay or lesbian person is always wrong and “homophobic”.

    Case in point:

    Wow, Colorado Patriot, are you sure you’re gay? Conservative, I got, but gay? You either have the most internalized homophobia I’ve seen in a very long time, or you are not really gay.

    Of course. If you criticize the behavior of another gay person, no matter how stupid it is, the gay left screams that you’re not really gay or calls you a homophobe.

    Last I looked, sexual orientation didn’t mean that you had to support and endorse everything that another gay person did. Then again, people keep saying that I’m not gay either, so in order to be a “real gay” you apparently can never criticize or have a different opinion than any other gay person.

    Is being gay a sexual orientation, or is it some kind of hive mind?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 18, 2010 @ 11:36 pm - April 18, 2010

  65. Is this Roy Ashburn?

    Comment by TVS — April 18, 2010 @ 11:37 pm - April 18, 2010

  66. [...] The Gay Left’s Newest Member [...]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » A Challenge to Those who use the “self-hating” slur — April 18, 2010 @ 11:47 pm - April 18, 2010

  67. [...] The Gay Left’s Newest Member [...]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » Constance McMillen Is Not a Heroine, but She Was Treated Badly — April 19, 2010 @ 2:28 am - April 19, 2010

  68. Nick, I disagree with a couple of premises of your post. I think by the time that we are the age when we go to the prom, we have a pretty good idea of which gender we are sexually attracted to. If one didn’t, it was partly because that it was required that any date you bring had to be of the opposite sex. Yes, I agree with John W in that there are plenty of examples of persons who believed they were one sexual orientation as a teen, but turned out to be another (although I’m not entirely sure that the ones who got married in his examples did actually turn out to be straight), but that’s beside the point. Because, otherwise, why not allow anyone to bring a date of their choice? Or better yet, why allow anyone to bring dates, and require everyone to go stag?

    As for the point that Constance was simply trying to make a political statement and tried to ruin the prom for everyone else, maybe so. However, if the school arbritrarily decided that some straight boys could only go to the prom if their date was also another boy (and try to send them to some fake prom if they dared to bring a girl), I can bet that some of them would raise a stink, and wouldn’t care if the prom was ruined for others.

    Comment by Pat — April 19, 2010 @ 7:25 am - April 19, 2010

  69. These comments by ‘colorado patriot’ are some of the nastiest I’ve seen on any topic recently.

    Comment by wister — April 19, 2010 @ 8:45 am - April 19, 2010

  70. North Dallas Thirty is a bit of a one-hit wonder, isn’t he? Again, SO WHAT ***if*** she wanted to make a statement? (I say “if” because it’s not clear if Constance said she was making a statement or of the judge just construed that.)

    Comment by StSean — April 19, 2010 @ 9:18 am - April 19, 2010

  71. Pat,

    What about the so called ‘Lesbian Until Graduation’ (LUG) behaviour? While my (ex)wife argued that all women are bi to some degree or another, LUGs seem to indicate a more, um, flexible sexuality is possible later in life. (Might also explain the Elana Kagen kerfluffle)

    StSean,

    If she wanted to make a statement, then that is the issue. She wanted to disrupt everyone else’s fun to turn it into a soap box. The school (reasonably) said she had to follow the same rules (in this case, dress code) as every other student. When they were forced to change the rules for her, they decided to cancel the event. So her action ruined everyone’s fun.

    If she wanted to protest, just showing up with her GF on her arm, in a tux and proudly and passively being escorted out would have been sufficient.

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 19, 2010 @ 9:37 am - April 19, 2010

  72. re: ‘the extent to which our leftist critics refuse to acknowledge our points” The issue is that the main point of the article — that teenagers are too young to have a sexual identity — is demonstrably, empirically, wrong.

    As a conservative, you two should be FAR more aware that “the innocence and beauty of youth” is a radical, modern invention, not more than 150 years old.

    The more historical tradition is that children work, and when they can breed, they do so. Tutankhamen was a king and a parent as a teenager. King James ascended the throne at 13. Like the movie “An Education” even my mother’s generation of women was expected to have a child by age 18. So if we allow that post-pubescent teenagers are able to have heterosexual urges, and even be parents, surely we can acknowledge that homosexual urges are present in teenagers also.

    As for the rest, clearly it was the school and the town who made the event, not the girl, by refusing a simple allowance to a student. I have no hopes for this nasty little town to enter the 21st century, but it would have been nice if they entered the 20th.

    Comment by Strepsi — April 19, 2010 @ 10:24 am - April 19, 2010

  73. Yes, heaven forbid a community actually enforce their rules, Strepsi.

    Nice computer you have. I’m sure I can take it from you. After all you wouldn’t want to make an incident by denying me my whims, no matter your concerns.

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 19, 2010 @ 11:28 am - April 19, 2010

  74. NDT: This is about all I care to say further on this matter. That Evan Hurst made an ass of himself with in commenting on Nick’s post in no way makes this post or the comments by several here, including you, any less repugnant. If I followed that kind of illogic than believe me, I would have dismissed this blog a long time ago based solely upon the plethora of asinine comments from folks like yourself. Come to think of it, one could probably say this about blogs in general, along with message boards online, chat rooms, etc.

    Comment by John — April 19, 2010 @ 11:29 am - April 19, 2010

  75. Yes, it is self hate.

    ‘“lesbian girlfriend” (I use the quotes because, really. Call me an old stick-in-the-mud*, but are high-schoolers self-aware enough to realize they’re lesbians already? And even if so, are we encouraging kids that young to identify themselves sexually? What ever happened to the innocence and beauty of youth? Ugh, but anyway.)’

    We do not question 18 y.o.’s if they identify as str8. But if they identify as gay or lesbian, they must be confused. Ughhh. This blog has been a waste of time.

    This is really sad. Homophobes do really win when gay people themselves internalize the hatred :(

    Comment by todd — April 19, 2010 @ 12:04 pm - April 19, 2010

  76. What a thoroughly disgusting website. A complete waste of cyber-space. This blog particularly.

    Comment by Tim — April 19, 2010 @ 12:55 pm - April 19, 2010

  77. Colorado Patriot has provided us with a breath-takingly inane essay of truly superficial insight. It has produced a side-discussion regarding whether teenagers can accurately understand their own sexual nature. This discussion has in turn led to comments that go well beyond inane and into the realm of foolishness and stupidity. Leading off we have post #40 (John) who gives us annecdotal cases of sexual confusion. Annecdotes prove nothing. I was enjoying gay sex very actively indeed from the age of 12 all the way to my present time of social security. Can we extrapolate from that to the entire gay community? Of course not.
    Then we have comments such as this:

    “Typical liberal claptrap. Kids in high school are interested in playing sports, listening to music, and having fun with friends. When are we going to stop pushing our own agenda on them? When you’re a teenager, the last thing you’re thinking about is sex – much less knowing your sexual preference.”

    This comment sets a new standard for something. I’m not sure if it is for ignorance or for willfully ignoring manifest reality. Perhaps the writer simply has no experience with young people. Clearly the writer knows absolutely nothing about the subject. As a high school teacher for over 30 years and as the adoptive father of four gay young men now in their early 20s, I can absolutely assure readers that kids in high school think of almost nothing other than sex. And why should they be otherwise? That is the age when the sex drive is strongest and the hormones are raging. Physiologically it can not be otherwise.
    As for the larger issue of Constance and the prom – I am genuinely appalled at the orgiinal essayist’s cruel conclusions and at the various commentors who are in agreement. Constance is a brave young lady who simply stood up for her right to be what she wants to be. That is what we did at Stonewall, remember? Only we were not as polite and law-abiing as she has been. We didn’t sue. We smashed. In his snide remarks about Constance going to court, is the author saying Constance should have done likewise rather than use the legal system as her tool? And yes, the term “gay conservative” is indeed an oxymoron.

    Comment by tobyg — April 19, 2010 @ 1:23 pm - April 19, 2010

  78. I think there are two relevant points:
    1. as people have pointed out this has happened before, in birmingham.
    2. not all kids went to the second prom or the official one, so it did not have to be a conspiracy involving everyone
    3. other people mistakenly went to the official one
    4. even if that girl was trying to get attention and a “troublemaker”, as contended, it doesn’t excuse the other kids or the parents for creating a secret prom. Instead it makes it even stupider and worse.

    Comment by plutosdad — April 19, 2010 @ 2:16 pm - April 19, 2010

  79. Oh, the hilarity of tobyg’s “argument”.

    First he tries to argue against using personal anecdotes to generalize.

    Annecdotes prove nothing. I was enjoying gay sex very actively indeed from the age of 12 all the way to my present time of social security. Can we extrapolate from that to the entire gay community? Of course not.

    And then of course, he uses personal anecdotes to generalize.

    As a high school teacher for over 30 years and as the adoptive father of four gay young men now in their early 20s, I can absolutely assure readers that kids in high school think of almost nothing other than sex.

    But it does get better.

    Constance is a brave young lady who simply stood up for her right to be what she wants to be.

    Sorry, but there is no “right” to commandeer a high school prom so that you can make political statements.

    She exercised the right she did have to be a pathetic ass, and people responded accordingly. Your argument seems to be that, because she’s a lesbian, people have to do what she says even though she’s an ass.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 19, 2010 @ 3:38 pm - April 19, 2010

  80. The self-hatred on this website is astounding! Sickening too.

    Comment by ohjeez — April 19, 2010 @ 4:36 pm - April 19, 2010

  81. You guys just really do hate gay people, don’t you? I thought you just wanted to represent a conservative politiical point of view, which clearly should be represented as part of the entire gay population. But at the end of the day, you just genuinely seem to hate anyone who wants to stand up and live openly as gay.

    Go back to the closet if you love it so much.

    Comment by Nick Cavnar — April 19, 2010 @ 4:42 pm - April 19, 2010

  82. Taking advice from the self-unaware seems problematic in general. Still, one can and should make allowances for kids. Some grow up in blissful ignorance of a lot of things. Bless ‘em!

    BUT when that lack of perception extends well into adulthood and causes them to not understand that everyone isn’t necessarily like them, especially when, presumably, they’ve been hearing about the lives of gay friends and lovers whose teen years were torture, one wonders why anyone should take their advice about anything.

    And on a side note, if any gay kid is likely to be predisposed to a Libertarian or conservative approach to life, it would be one raised in the South. Did you consider you might be driving her to the “lefties”???

    Comment by BobN — April 19, 2010 @ 4:51 pm - April 19, 2010

  83. “What ever happened to the innocence and beauty of youth?”

    Does lesbianism tar the beauty? As for innocence, thinking you could bring the person you want to prom seems to fit the bill.

    Comment by BobN — April 19, 2010 @ 4:53 pm - April 19, 2010

  84. Wow. This was a shock for me! I’m a young woman myself, and while I admit that Constance is responsible for her actions, you’re demonizing her! She’s just a young girl who wanted to feel accepted as she was most comfortable, like every other person in that room.

    If she told the judge it was to make a statement, good. This may not be what her original intention even was, but she got encouragement so she ran with it. Who really cares if you think it’s selfish. Teenagers are brought up to see Prom as one of the most memorable days of their lives…if she wanted to go in a tux, so be it! Why should she have to wear a dress? It’s a stupid issue, if you ask me. Girls go around wearing pants all the time.

    Anyway, the girl got encouragement to do this for the community, and she went with it. Honestly, if you could take something you wanted, and add in “making a difference,” wouldn’t you?

    I don’t understand why you seem so set on dividing yourself and making yourself an elitist. Why do YOU think you’re better than everyone else? Because clearly blaming everything on the “gay Leftists” is something your proud of, and you don’t want any progress done toward gay rights. You’re part of the reason we’re not going anywhere fast.

    Thanks for that.

    Comment by Ali — April 19, 2010 @ 5:11 pm - April 19, 2010

  85. And if you do choose to call me “an old stick-in-the-mud”

    More stick-up-your-ass than in the mud…

    Comment by BobN — April 19, 2010 @ 5:32 pm - April 19, 2010

  86. Self-loathe much?

    Comment by Marc C — April 19, 2010 @ 5:37 pm - April 19, 2010

  87. So, I also ignored this story at first (as Dan said he did). I’m personally tired of the annual “gay/lesbian wants to go to prom” thing. So I moved along.

    However, I do think it is very mean what the other kids did to her. Kids are mean. Whether or not you are gay; kids can be very cruel.

    I would not have written the post Nick did. But it is a free country (I think).

    All that being said, I am quite surprised that so many of our commenters (fed from Gay Left Wing blogs) are projecting their own prejudices onto what Nick wrote. You are all claiming Nick wrote a lot more than he actually did.

    Clearly “reading comprehension” is not something that gay leftwingers are good at in 2010.

    Comment by GayPatriot — April 19, 2010 @ 5:37 pm - April 19, 2010

  88. Are you serious? If you think teenagers aren’t sexually aware/active, you’re incredibly naive.

    Comment by wtf? — April 19, 2010 @ 5:47 pm - April 19, 2010

  89. Dan, can you ask Nick to articulate his point a little more clearly? I read his piece, but beyond the fuzzy outlines of what seems to be a conspiracy theory, I don’t understand what substantive point he is trying to make about the issue.

    Comment by Andrew W — April 19, 2010 @ 5:52 pm - April 19, 2010

  90. So Patriot, you “don’t project your own prejudices”…what, no mirror in your home? Is there a reason for that?

    Comment by stfu — April 19, 2010 @ 5:59 pm - April 19, 2010

  91. Damn, you are an asshole. The GayPatriot is gay like Larry Craig is gay. You might like to mess around with other dudes, but you dont deserve to be grouped with me after this disgusting post. Being yourself, living your life with integrity and being honest about who you are, expressing yourself IS NOT making a statement. Everyday, everyone else makes statements to us about how un-mainstream we are. Being true to ourselves isnt making a statement, its just being different, which is what we are.

    GayPatriot probably begs his church friends and LDS family for acceptance while flamboyantly sucking off Ryan Sorba when no one is watching lol.

    Comment by Drew — April 19, 2010 @ 6:44 pm - April 19, 2010

  92. Oh the hilarity of N. Dallas’ response (#80) to my post (#78) Two or three personal experiences such as “John” (#40)quoted are annecdotal. 30 years of teaching experience involving thousands of teen age students constitutes substantial professional experience – a legitimate source of valid research information. As for your comment that Constance “commandeered” the prom – what idiotic nonsense! She did nothing of the sort. She merely wanted to attend in her genuine and valid personna as lesbian – period. This commandeers nothing and does not impact on other’s enjoyment of their prom in any way – unless you count upsetting their prejudices. Finally, you characterize Constance as a derogatory term. That is beneath contempt as are you, N. Dallas. The term in question easily applies to those who would deride the bravery of an isolated young person who stands up for the kind of personal freedom we have been fighting for since Stonewall. It is not much of a stretch to imagine you saying things like “Matthew Sheppard deserved what he got for being “out’” Frankly, N. Dallas, you’re scum.

    Comment by tobyg — April 19, 2010 @ 6:49 pm - April 19, 2010

  93. Tobyg, you have an interesting definition of “research”.

    First, you stated an absolute conclusion.

    As a high school teacher for over 30 years and as the adoptive father of four gay young men now in their early 20s, I can absolutely assure readers that kids in high school think of almost nothing other than sex.

    Based on what?

    30 years of teaching experience involving thousands of teen age students constitutes substantial professional experience – a legitimate source of valid research information.

    But of course, the reason why you reached that absolute conclusion is simple to discern, given that you ignore any information to the contrary.

    Two or three personal experiences such as “John” (#40)quoted are annecdotal.

    Starting with a conclusion and ignoring facts that disagree with it can be called many things, but “research” or “scientific” are not among them.

    Now, it originally seemed odd that you were so determined to prove that teenagers were completely sex-obsessed and unable to think of anything else.

    Then I reviewed your first post and realized why.

    I was enjoying gay sex very actively indeed from the age of 12 all the way to my present time of social security.

    Of course. Rather than admit that your own promiscuity and sex with and as an underage child was abnormal, you rationalized it as being something that all twelve-year-olds do. You dismiss other examples as “anecdotes” because they simply do not support your belief that it is normal and rational to have sex with twelve-year-old children.

    Granted, this is a belief that is endorsed and supported by the gay community, but really, why do you and Constance’s other defenders think having sex with children is a good idea? Why are you in such a hurry to sexualize children and call anyone who disagrees with you “close minded”?

    This is really what the gay left and Constance’s “defenders” are all about — unresolved issues from their childhood and teenage years. Constance is merely their proxy fight onto which they project their beliefs that their promiscuity in high school was normal, that everyone else in high school was wrong and they were right, etc.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 19, 2010 @ 11:21 pm - April 19, 2010

  94. I don’t understand why you’re making issue of Constance showing up at the sham prom and not figuring out where the “real prom” was. Perhaps, she didn’t care anymore. And, at this point, isn’t Lance Bass and some other celebrities holding a much cooler prom for her? This all seems pretty moot. The local residents got what they wanted and Constance gets to attend a much cooler affair.

    I don’t consider myself on the left, but in the middle. And I found this article kind of alienating.

    Comment by Vince S. — April 19, 2010 @ 11:42 pm - April 19, 2010

  95. I think it is funny how often we hear that teens, and to a lesser degree kids, lack the ability to determine if they can have same sex attractions. Yet conversely it is perfectly acceptable for them to express opposite sex attraction.

    It is perfectly acceptable for a boy of sixteen to take his girl to a dance and hope for a kiss, but somehow reprehensible that a sixteen year old girl should want the same.

    Is that not the very definition of hypocrisy?

    Comment by Mark — April 20, 2010 @ 1:57 am - April 20, 2010

  96. What about the so called ‘Lesbian Until Graduation’ (LUG) behaviour? While my (ex)wife argued that all women are bi to some degree or another, LUGs seem to indicate a more, um, flexible sexuality is possible later in life. (Might also explain the Elana Kagen kerfluffle)

    Livewire, I have heard that women’s sexuality is more fluid than men’s. My point is, if that is the reason that teens should not have same sex dates at proms, then teens shouldn’t bring any dates to the prom.

    This is really what the gay left and Constance’s “defenders” are all about — unresolved issues from their childhood and teenage years. Constance is merely their proxy fight onto which they project their beliefs that their promiscuity in high school was normal, that everyone else in high school was wrong and they were right, etc.

    NDT, after railing someone else about how they reached a conclusion, you went ahead and made your own ludicrous conclusion. Maybe for some people it is about unresolved issues in childhood, or whatever. But maybe for some, it’s about fairness, and the ability for a teen to bring a date of their choice, and not about promiscuity (just as it isn’t for a straight teen who wants to bring an opposite sex date to a prom). I’m a defender of Constance, and I never had sex before or during high school, and a firm believer that teens should not have sex.

    Comment by Pat — April 20, 2010 @ 7:27 am - April 20, 2010

  97. This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. Kids take dates to prom all the time. Do you really think this girl should have gone alone, or taken a boy (like all the other girls in her school who, evidently, identify as straight)? Did you go to high school? Were you ever a teenager? As I recall the experience, “identifying themselves sexually” is what teenagers do approximately 23 hours of the day (the other is spent writing bad poetry).

    Comment by Jim — April 20, 2010 @ 7:36 am - April 20, 2010

  98. 95.I think it is funny how often we hear that teens, and to a lesser degree kids, lack the ability to determine if they can have same sex attractions. Yet conversely it is perfectly acceptable for them to express opposite sex attraction.

    Mark, I don’t think Nick’s post was as outlandish as many others have made it, but this is exactly why I disagree with his post. In fact, it is not only acceptable for teens to express opposite sex attraction (at least in terms of dating), but encouraged, and it’s been that way for a long time. That’s why it has been customary for teens to bring opposite sex dates to a prom. There is nothing wrong with that, for straight teens. It’s just that gay and lesbian teens should have the same opportunity if they so choose.

    Comment by Pat — April 20, 2010 @ 8:04 am - April 20, 2010

  99. Stick in the mud? No.
    Head up your ass? Yes.
    I knew I was gay when I was 12.

    Comment by Randy — April 20, 2010 @ 8:49 am - April 20, 2010

  100. Regarding N. Dallas’ reply (#93) kindly don’t put your words in my mouth. First, I didn’t say my 30 years of teaching experience was “research.” I said it was a SOURCE of research. There is a big difference. I have not claimed to have researched the issue of teen sexuality. You ask on what I base my statement – on 30 years of listening to teenager’s conversations and obsessions, in which sex, both actual and fantasy, plays a major and constant role. Any text on child psych you pick up will bear out the normality of this. It is neither news nor is it debateable.
    Then you write: “Starting with a conclusion and ignoring facts that disagree with it can be called many things, but “research” or “scientific” are not among them.”
    That is certainly true BUT you haven’t presented a single fact, whereas my own statement that I’ve spent a professional lifetime listening to kids talk IS a fact. Moreover, I emphasize again that no part of this present debate constitutes scientific research. At present, on both sides, it is merely an exchange of opinion. I would of course contend that my opinions are better supported than yours but i’m sure you expected that. None of it is scientific however.
    Next you get into two paragraphs that present a serious problem with your train of thought:
    “Of course. Rather than admit that your own promiscuity and sex with and as an underage child was abnormal, you rationalized it as being something that all twelve-year-olds do. You dismiss other examples as “anecdotes” because they simply do not support your belief that it is normal and rational to have sex with twelve-year-old children.

    Granted, this is a belief that is endorsed and supported by the gay community, but really, why do you and Constance’s other defenders think having sex with children is a good idea? Why are you in such a hurry to sexualize children and call anyone who disagrees with you “close minded”?”
    WATCH YOU CHOICE OF PHRASE BUDDY!! Absolutely NO ONE is advocating “sex with children.” That has some truly ugly connotations – revolting in fact. We are talking about teens having sex with each other. I’ll grant that is most probably what you meant – at least I hope it is. Further, no one is “in a hurry to sexualize children. ” No one is advocating teens go out and have sex. What I have said is simply a recognition of a biological reality. The sex drive IS the strongest in the late teen years. There is no debate in medical science about that. Hence, any effort to mask that or project some sort of fantasy of “innocent youth” is absurd and unrealistic.
    Then you get personal and write:
    “Of course. Rather than admit that your own promiscuity and sex with and as an underage child was abnormal, you rationalized it as being something that all twelve-year-olds do. You dismiss other examples as “anecdotes” because they simply do not support your belief that it is normal and rational to have sex with twelve-year-old children. ”
    Let’s be absolutely clear about what I DID say. I did NOT claim it was either normal or rational to “have sex with 12 year old children,” unless you happen to be another 12 year old child. Let’s be VERY clear about that. However, it IS normal for children of that age to engage in various kinds of sexual experimentation – usually of a fumbling variety. Again, any text on the subject will explain that to you. I advise you to do some research of your own and learn a few of the facts of life. You really appear to have formed your opinions on the basis of watching too many episodes of “Leave It To Beaver” and know nothing about actual child development.
    Finally, you fail to address the core issue of this thread. Why is Constance’s wish to attend the prom with a partner of her choice “sexualizing” youth while all the other kids get to do so with no problem? You can not present a case in equity for such a fiat.

    Comment by tobyg — April 20, 2010 @ 9:09 am - April 20, 2010

  101. I don’t know in what crazy parallel universe have you lived all your life, but it must be one very different from this one. How long took you to realize that you were really gay to question something that for most of us is so blatantly obvious even before we reach puberty? I mean, that’s something to ponder with your shrink. Not to cast your own troubled shadows upon others.
    At the age of this girl I was well aware of my sexuality and more than capable to love and compromise. What a pity that some people lost the train.

    Comment by Lexxvs — April 20, 2010 @ 9:56 am - April 20, 2010

  102. Your response to the situation totally misses the mark. Whether or not any teenager can be sure about their sexual orientation is beside the point. Were any of Constance’s classmates denied permission to bring their date? No. Why was Constance’s situation different? Duh. By your logic, NO student should be able to bring a date to the prom, because they sexuality is not cast in concrete yet (which is a ridiculous point to argue anyway).

    Comment by Jay — April 20, 2010 @ 11:46 am - April 20, 2010

  103. That is certainly true BUT you haven’t presented a single fact, whereas my own statement that I’ve spent a professional lifetime listening to kids talk IS a fact.

    Correction. You have spent several years listening to kids tell stories about their sexual escapades, which would qualify on any level as “anecdotes”.

    Yet when ones come up that don’t match your predetermined conclusion, you dismiss them as “anecdotes” that have no validity, and “absolutely assure” people that high school kids think of nothing but sex.

    And then your defensiveness about your own endorsement of sex for and with twelve-year-olds got hilarious.

    I did NOT claim it was either normal or rational to “have sex with 12 year old children,” unless you happen to be another 12 year old child.

    I repeat: Gay and lesbian individuals like yourself think it is normal and rational for twelve-year-old children to be having sex with each other. A gay high school teacher has for thirty years taught children that it is perfectly normal and rational for twelve-year-old children to be having sex with each other.

    And why? Because you did it.

    I was enjoying gay sex very actively indeed from the age of 12 all the way to my present time of social security.

    And then you try this hilarious one:

    However, it IS normal for children of that age to engage in various kinds of sexual experimentation – usually of a fumbling variety.

    So this is “abnormal”.

    I’m a defender of Constance, and I never had sex before or during high school, and a firm believer that teens should not have sex.

    So we’re waiting, tobyg. Start babbling about how this individual should “do some research of his own and learn a few of the facts of life,” and that this individual “really appears to have formed (his) opinions on the basis of watching too many episodes of “Leave It To Beaver” and knows nothing about actual child development”.

    By the way, thanks for making it clear that Sadly, No! and Truth Wins Out both agree with you that it is perfectly rational and normal for twelve-year-old children to be having gay sex. It answers so many questions about why Evan Hurst and Wayne Besen are obsessed with gay children and teenagers.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 20, 2010 @ 12:34 pm - April 20, 2010

  104. North Dallas Thirty,
    this has probably been beaten to a pulp by now, but you are honestly telling me that you are siding with a school district who, rather than let the girl go to prom in a tux and a dress were justified in cancelling it, then encouraging a private, discriminatory prom? Jesus.
    Also, I’d like to point out to you, since you seem dumb enough not to have noticed, that there would have been no reason to cancel a prom if they had had a legal leg to stand on re: not allowing her to wear a tux/bring a girl as a date.
    So, you see, this is plain ol’ discrimination, the kind you face from your political party on a daily basis. I guess you like it like that.

    Comment by Rebel — April 20, 2010 @ 2:00 pm - April 20, 2010

  105. Nick, When I first read your article I was so angry, I wanted to say harsh, ugly things just to retaliate. But that doesn’t solve anything. And you seem to have given us enough ugliness in your article.

    Please let me give my 2 cents. For whatever reason I was painfully aware of my sexuality in high school, I had a boyfriend my freshman year (this was over 20 years ago, btw).

    I was pretty much forced out of high school because of bullying from students and physical abuse from high school staff and completed school at an ‘alternative’ high school near by. I was lucky that I lived in an area that actually had an ‘alternative’ high school.

    I knew I was right, they were wrong and I always knew I would be able to get to a place where I would find tolerance and a permanent relationship but getting here was hell on earth.

    Reading your article takes me right back to those days when I questioned whether I’d even make it out of freshman year alive.

    I hope you will reconsider your opinion about this subject and this young lady that is just trying to make her way through high school. So what if the left has embraced her and given her some publicity? That doesn’t meant you can’t be supportive as well.

    Its called bi-partisanship. Give it a try.

    SC

    Comment by Snottyboy — April 20, 2010 @ 4:08 pm - April 20, 2010

  106. this has probably been beaten to a pulp by now, but you are honestly telling me that you are siding with a school district who, rather than let the girl go to prom in a tux and a dress were justified in cancelling it, then encouraging a private, discriminatory prom? Jesus.

    Nope.

    I am siding with a school district that, rather than let a student abuse what is an optional gathering so that said student could make political statements about her sexual preferences, cancelled said gathering.

    Your statement about “encouraging a private, discriminatory prom” is not in the least backed by evidence, and hilariously demonstrates that you believe that gay and lesbian people have the special right to force other people to invite them to private parties.

    You are an advocate of gay and lesbian people having special rights based on their sexual orientation. That is discrimination. But you don’t recognize it as such because you believe that, by virtue of your sexual orientation, you are entitled to special treatment.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 20, 2010 @ 4:12 pm - April 20, 2010

  107. NDT, I call bullshit. Attending prom with a date is not special treatment. It is the same right the school afforded its heterosexual students. Would you also support a predominately white student body that choose to exclude persons of color from prom? Or someone who was handicapped? Or anyone else who possessed an immutable characteristic that made them different from the majority of students? Your comments and your logic are repulsive.

    Comment by Mark — April 22, 2010 @ 3:55 pm - April 22, 2010

  108. TobyG, a little advice…don’t take the bait. I’ve seen NDT play this disingenuous and manipulative game of his for years now.

    It’s a waste of time trying to influence him in any way. He has a warped angry hegemonic point of view and sees anything that challenges his narrow perspective as a personal attack. His typical response to these challenges is to ignore the main point and instead parse the words of the challenger, twisting their meaning in an attempt to denigrate, intimidate and marginalize the other person.

    He is willfully oblivious to any argument or evidence which refutes his position, and will continue to ignore your point regardless of the number of times you try to redirect him.

    It can sometimes be fun to watch or engage him in his game, but it is a futile waste of time to try to have a thoughtful exchange of ideas with him. He will not join in a debate with you. He will not have a conversation with you. He will only slander you and malign your character and beliefs to try and distract from the fact that he cannot rationally support his position without distorting or making up facts and jumping to conclusions.

    So if you enjoy an argument for argument’s sake, by all means, knock youself out. But if you are actually trying to persuade NDT to your position using logic and reason, you’ll only end up exasperated and aggravated in the end.

    Comment by StudioTodd — April 23, 2010 @ 6:01 pm - April 23, 2010

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