British “preacher” arrested for calling homosexual behavior sinful
Let us hope that we are not the only gay people to denounce police in Wokington, Cumbria (in the UK) for arresting Dale McAlpine, a Christian street preacher who was “reciting a number of ‘sins’ referred to in the Bible, including blasphemy, drunkenness and same sex relationships“:
Police officers are alleging that he made the remark in a voice loud enough to be overheard by others and have charged him with using abusive or insulting language, contrary to the Public Order Act.
Mr McAlpine, who was taken to the police station in the back of a marked van and locked in a cell for seven hours on April 20, said the incident was among the worst experiences of his life.
Now, we don’t agree with what Mr. McAlpine said, but we certainly support his right to say it. He should not have been arrested. If people were offended by his words, then they should have challenged him, mounting their own stepladders (as Mr. McAlpine) had done and taking issue with his arguments point by point. Indeed, one woman did just that, only to find herself approached by a “homosexual police community support officer (PCSO)”.
After this PCSO spoke with this woman who had engaged the preacher “in a debate about his faith”, he confronted McAlpine who
. . . claims that the PCSO then said he was homosexual and identified himself as the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender liaison officer for Cumbria police. Mr McAlpine replied: “It’s still a sin.”
This PCSO sounds like a real busybody while the woman sounds like she pretty much knew how responsible people deal with disagreement in a free society. They engage in debate. If this PCSO is going to lock up someone offering an alternative point of view, he must suffer from a severe case of inecurity. Where else have we see such behavior, locking up our intellectual adversaries?
Authorities should drop the charges, fire the PCSO and ask him to attend tolerance training sessions while we should all follow the example of that woman who engaged the street preacher in debates about faith. (Though she would have been wise not to inform this PCSO about her conversation.)
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Shameful.
And the liberals want us to emulate Europe for some ungodly reason.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — May 3, 2010 @ 6:09 am - May 3, 2010
I too got the impression that the gay liaison officer was trying to make an example of the preacher. However as I was reading the various articles about it I ran across something about a law in Britain that prohibits public displays of discrimination and religious bigotry. That basically means such ‘street preaching’ is unlawful if anything you are saying can be construed as discriminatory or hateful.
If that is true and the preacher knew that was he doing it on purpose? Trying to get arrested to make a point?
Kind of like a bunch of our religious leaders tried to do in front of Washington a while back, looking to get arrested, and instead were ignored.
Comment by American Shepard — May 3, 2010 @ 7:18 am - May 3, 2010
Then it’s a narrow-minded, freedom-stealing, ridiculous law…yet, we’ve all been heading down this same road for quite a while. And the same individuals who support the squelching of said and similar speech will wake up one day to find “the tape” over their own mouths.
Comment by rodney — May 3, 2010 @ 9:16 am - May 3, 2010
But the only point would be free speech. Making the preacher then a bit of a hero. (Again granting that what he said was something I’d dismiss as incorrect.)
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 3, 2010 @ 10:07 am - May 3, 2010
American Shepard notes in #2:
Islam seems to be thriving in Britain. With scant effort you can find plenty of what appears to the common sense as “displays of discrimination” and “religious bigotry” staged by the religion of peace on the streets and in the neighborhoods of England. But then, if you rile those guys up, you will likely have a riot on your hands. Better to stick to a fundamentalist screeching about Christian sin.
Just for grins: Can we all agree on what constitutes “public displays of discrimination” and “religious bigotry?” Or shall we just leave it up to a police officer who “knows it when he sees it?”
Comment by heliotrope — May 3, 2010 @ 10:15 am - May 3, 2010
Thank goodness we have something in America called the First Amendment. It prevents us from adopting this European (as well as Canadian) law.
Comment by Jim Michaud — May 3, 2010 @ 10:19 am - May 3, 2010
When I get voting rights in Britain, I’ll care. Until then, we should focus on things we do have rights to like the US Constitution.
Comment by James Younce — May 3, 2010 @ 10:53 am - May 3, 2010
The UK isn´t what it used to be. As much as Tony Blair is admired for his support of our effort in Iraq he is responsible for gun control. If attacked and you fend off your attacker wih a nail file you can be arrested. So not only thank God for the First Amendment, but also thank God for the Second Amendment and in 2012. let´s have a Republican Secretary of State to withdraw our support of the UN¨s Small Arms Treaty.
Comment by Roberto — May 3, 2010 @ 11:50 am - May 3, 2010
Stupid comments from this preacher but an even more stupid law. I second the gratitude expressed here of thank God for the First Amendment.
Comment by John — May 3, 2010 @ 12:49 pm - May 3, 2010
Great Britain is in decline. It’s important that we remember that Brits do not believe they have have God-given rights like we do, they have only what rights government gives them. And a government that can give rights can take them away. Also, someone mentioned the growing Islamic influence… according to Mark Steyn, Europe will be majority Muslim by 2030, just 20 years from now. Then European governments will not only not tolerate laws against criticizing homosexuality, they wont tolerate homosexuality itself.
The same politically correct, self-loathing, INtolerant leftist moral equivalence responsible for this shameful law is killing the United Kingdom. The very same moral equivalence that Obama displayed when he was incapable of saying that the United States is indeed exceptional among nations.
Comment by American Elephant — May 3, 2010 @ 3:07 pm - May 3, 2010
Good ole’ Britain, I don’t know why you all act surprise. A man was arrested for looking at a police officer the wrong way in London. And a man was cited for yelling at a horse. It is very silly to arrest people for saying stupid things. Heck I think this preacher might have a better chance for a career in the GOP.
Comment by JS — May 3, 2010 @ 3:34 pm - May 3, 2010
Once again, JS, you start typing away on your computer and reveal your prejudice.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — May 3, 2010 @ 3:47 pm - May 3, 2010
In other news, the British courts don’t give a damn if terrorists publicly make death threats:
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=14353
One terrorist defaced some national monuments with:
“Islam will dominate the world – Osama is on his way – Kill Gordon Brown”
and the courts didn’t think he said anything offensive.
Comment by Mitchell — May 3, 2010 @ 7:15 pm - May 3, 2010
From the Telegraph:
How nice to see the UK became a totalitarian state.
“The unreasonable use of abusive language.” WTF! Is that what the British Parliament considers good statutory construction? Just what do they consider the reasonable use of abusive language?
Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — May 3, 2010 @ 8:24 pm - May 3, 2010
James Younce @ 7:
What an incredibly stupid attitude.
We should all be concerned about the self-destruction of western culture wherever it happens.
Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — May 3, 2010 @ 8:26 pm - May 3, 2010
And some still wonder why we have a First Amendment.
Comment by Delusional Bill — May 3, 2010 @ 10:50 pm - May 3, 2010
Can’t say that all Brits are nuts, but the more I read about the U.K., the more lucky I feel to be a United States citizen. Thank G-d for the American Revolution.
Comment by longviewcyclist — May 4, 2010 @ 3:52 am - May 4, 2010
#14 Apparently they consider Muslim death threats “reasonable use of abusive language” according to Mitchell’s link.
Comment by The_Livewire — May 4, 2010 @ 7:15 am - May 4, 2010
Frankly I am more than tired of bigots claiming to be victims when challenged on attacking Gay people. Free speech boundaries under English law are different than here in the USA. Of course it needs to be publicly examined if this bigots rights were violated, or if he indeed did cross their line of acceptable, objectionable speech.
Comment by Dave — May 4, 2010 @ 1:21 pm - May 4, 2010
“Once again, JS, you start typing away on your computer and reveal your prejudice.”
Go ahead Dan with your typical evasion maneuvers and then blame others for prejudice. This is coming from a man (a gay man more or less) who supports a party that is overwhelming allowing prejudice against gay people. Frankly I do not need nor asked to be lectured by somebody as confusing and as uncommitted as you.
In the name of defeating “prejudice” why haven’t the “patriots” of this blog comment over the recent inflammatory comments made by two Republican candidates over gay soldiers…http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010100430039
Maybe its not quite convenient for you countering real prejudices stemming from a party that you so slavishly support.
Comment by JS — May 4, 2010 @ 5:22 pm - May 4, 2010
Please give me specifics of my evasive maneuvers, JS. You don’t address my point, make strange assumptions and level charges that you can’t justify.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — May 4, 2010 @ 5:27 pm - May 4, 2010
You mean like how Fred Phelps gives to the Democratic candidates?
Or maybe how the former VP candidate of the party is uncomfortable around ‘those people’
When these two get into congress, then we’ll talk. until then, guess what, I’m sure our gay servicemen posting can tell stories of crap going on. If someone was frakking up the unit, no matter the reason/orientation I’m sure there would be a blanket party.
But hey, you must not suport the Dems, JS.
Comment by The_Livewire — May 4, 2010 @ 6:25 pm - May 4, 2010
What an arrogant remark to make @ CLDave-#15.
What right do I have to tell Britain what to do? I don’t pay taxes there? I don’t live there. We don’t own “western culture” aka 1st Amendment rights. If Britain wants to have such rights, then let em, if they don’t, fine by me.
Comment by James Younce — May 6, 2010 @ 12:33 pm - May 6, 2010
that JS is such a jerk. I am not an American, but Australian. I have been spending a lot of time on the Hillbuzz site, which is controlled by gay guys from Boystown, Chicago. These young men do not beat about the bush and unlike your hosts here, JS, they are Democrats tending towards Independent. These Democrat gays do not agree with you.
What the Hillbuzz guys have noticed is that they are generally and genuinely welocmed by Republicans. They have been to a few Republican events and people have been really great towards them. On top of that the Republicans tend to not care at all about one’s sexuality – what belongs in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom.
As a result JS, your comments just show that you are nothing more than one very stupid, intolerant troll who has nothing better to do, except to take money under false pretenses from the likes of DailyKos or is that MoveOn.org or OFA. Either way, the commentst that you express are way off the mark, and the ones who are being the most observant would agree.
Comment by straightAussie — May 17, 2010 @ 12:51 am - May 17, 2010
Even if you do not live in the UK this kind of law should be considered totally repugnant. It is a law that denies the right to free speech.
What is so amusing, and it comes out in the comments, is that people seem to think that because someone expresses a point of view, that this is biogtry. However, that is not correct.
A preacher, using Scripture, has every right to express what is within Scripture. This particular preacher told the truth that such practices are sinful….. and the following practices of heterosexuals are also sinful: adultery, fornication, prostitution…etc. In fact there is no real discrimination between either group since both commit sexual sins.
What is outrageous is that a person expressing a point of view is arrested and charged with a crime. In my view this is total nonsense. Where is the bigotry? Has anyone been denied the right to work? Were the people listening denied the right to accommodation? Were they being denied a seat in the train, the bus or at the theatre? No? Then there is no bigotry being expressed. It is just a point of view.
The British people have had a number of their freedoms eliminated. Since the PC crowd took control in the UK the place has been like a nightmare, with Christians in particular being denied the right to work, or being harassed and even being put in jail. In one case a young girl was taken to the police station because she complained about being put with another group of students who spoke only Urdu.
So why should any of us care? We live in a plural society. Our nations are no longer far apart. What happens in the UK will happen in Australia and the USA. What happens in the USA will get imitated in Australia and the UK. If these rights are being eroded in the UK then it will not be long before such rights are eroded in the USA…. and so on… that is why we should care.. and it is why we all should make a noise and ensure that bad laws get reversed.
Comment by straightAussie — May 17, 2010 @ 1:04 am - May 17, 2010