Obamacare means longer waits in emergency rooms
When Washington Democrats rushed to overhaul our nation’s health care system, they spent more time considering liberal ideology than real-world experience. Instead of learning from the mistakes of government-run health care, particularly in states which have tried it, they just assumed good intentions would be enough to create a good system.
Well, before rushing to pass an unpopular bill, they should have look to the Massachusetts,s where in 2006, politicians “created near-universal coverage for residents, which was supposed to ease the traffic in hospital emergency rooms.” Yet, instead of easing traffic in hospital emergency rooms, according to “a recent poll by the American College of Emergency Physicians,” nearly the opposite occurred: ”nearly two-thirds of the state’s residents say emergency department wait times have either increased or remained the same.”
And it looks like what happened in Massachusetts may soon happen across the country:
People who build hospitals, however, say newly insured people will still go to emergency rooms for primary care because they don’t have a doctor.
“Everybody expected that one of the initial impacts of reform would be less pressure on emergency departments; it’s going to be exactly the opposite over the next four to eight years,” said Rich Dallam, a healthcare partner at the architectural firm NBBJ, which designs healthcare facilities.
“We don’t have the primary care infrastructure in place in America to cover the need. Our clients are looking at and preparing for more emergency department volume, not less,” he said.
Why is it that those determined to turn to the state for solution to our country’s problems refuse to learn from experience?
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This is why you have to donate to and vote Conservative. Get them into power in November and demand – before they get in – that they put in writing that they will work to repeal Obamacare. This horror of a bill has to be stopped.
Comment by Black Sabbath — May 15, 2010 @ 7:51 pm - May 15, 2010
Wait, what? Despite spending twice as much per capita as any other country on healthcare, the United States literally does not have enough facilities to cover the entire population? That’s the Best Healthcare System In The World?
Also, the previous comment repeats “repeal Obamacare” as if that’s a solution. The last time I ended up debating healthcare here I ended up concluding that tort reform would create a saving 2-5% on healthcare costs, at best. I then asked what else is in the typical conservative platform for reforming healthcare, and just got misquoted by the resident troll.
So, what is the solution? I gather tort reform is one part, but where’s the rest? I also hear stuff about ‘increasing competition’ through allowing competition over state lines. But I also hear that healthcare insurers don’t do that because states set their own standards for healthcare insurers. So if that goes, who decides what standards healthcare insurers abide by? Also, what would be the consequences of changing those standards?
I see lots of criticism, but no alternatives. How about you finally put up or shut up?
Comment by Serenity — May 15, 2010 @ 9:32 pm - May 15, 2010
And despite having socialized medicine, Serenity’s own UK sentences patients to death, shoves people into hallways to give birth, and is massively cutting and rationing services.
So once again, we have the entertaining spectacle of a person standing in front of you wagging their finger and screaming about your selection of window treatments while the roof caves in on their house behind them.
The entertaining part is that the NHS is just showing the effects of a massive infestation of parasites like Serenity, who demand that society support them without their having to lift a finger. And then, of course, these same parasites like Serenity want to take over the US system, which has a very simple parasite safeguard; if you refuse to work and pay your bills, your access to health care is limited to what everyone else chooses to give you.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 15, 2010 @ 9:56 pm - May 15, 2010
Hmm… Telegraph, Mail, Telegraph. Boy, never saw that coming.
So, with the first, the old euthanasia debate again (Did you know 80% of people in Britain are in favour of legalizing voluntary euthanasia with proper safeguards? Can we have some democracy?). So the specific scenario is that those with illnesses judged to be terminal begin to enter their final hours, and are put under continual sedation and are only supplied food and water if they can actually handle them. But this can mask signs that they are getting better in some cases. So the call is to stop overtreatment of those that are dying, and keep in mind that there is no ‘one size fits all’ treatment.
This is a debate over palliative care, not summary execution.
The Mail article describes a very simple problem: Lack of facilities. The article above talks about the same. I am actually asking about the free market solution to this and how it would work. Mocking the NHS is not an answer, it’s a sign that you don’t have one.
For the second Telegraph article, I would first point out that those plans were drawn up by the Labour government we just kicked out of office. The current Con/Lib proposal call for year on year increases in NHS spending (before you attack the LibDems, that proposal was in the Conservative manifesto).
The rest of the post isn’t even worth responding to. I ask to hear your solution, and I get yet another barrage of accusations and insults. Do you have a solution beyond “Those that can’t pay don’t get to live”?
Comment by Serenity — May 15, 2010 @ 10:19 pm - May 15, 2010
Anybody ever heard of Supply and Demand? Masscare and Obamacare entitlements, and the politicians’ beloved coverage mandates, e.g., in-vitro fertilization, chiropractic, abortion…, all expand demand. But if there is no increase in supply of primary care Docs, nurses and hospitals, guess what happens to costs and availability? Duh.
Comment by globalizer — May 15, 2010 @ 10:46 pm - May 15, 2010
Sure. Go ahead and put to a vote what the article discusses, which is government bureaucrats unilaterally deciding to put people to death.
And then, go look up what “voluntary” actually means.
No you are not. You tried to claim that the free market solution was a failure due to an alleged lack of facilities, and are now desperately trying to spin your way out of the fact that the socialist nationalized system that you advocate IS a colossal failure by your own measurement.
First, you have repeatedly supported and endorsed that government and their plans.
Furthermore, you claim to have voted in recent US elections, but now are claiming about having voted in UK elections. Please explain how you are legally able to vote in either location.
And finally, thank you for demonstrating your bigotry.
So you believe that information is valid based on where it is published, not on if it is factual. Even if it is factual, you refuse to acknowledge the sources you don’t like as valid.
Again, pure hypocrisy. But typical of parasites such as yourself.
And as for the last, what makes your blatant hypocrisy so much more obvious is that parasites like yourself are the most worthless people of all, since you provide nothing to society and pay no taxes — but then you have the gall to advocate forced euthanasia for the elderly who have paid taxes their entire lives, but which you deem worthless.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 15, 2010 @ 11:12 pm - May 15, 2010
#4: “So, with the first, the old euthanasia debate again (Did you know 80% of people in Britain are in favour of legalizing voluntary euthanasia with proper safeguards? Can we have some democracy?).”
Leftists are always in favor of “democracy” when some poll supports their position on a matter of life and death, so how about submitting the issue of abortion to American “democracy,” Serenity? And your blog indicates that you’re a transsexual? Is that right? How about we submit the issue of public funding for sex reassignment surgery to a vote?
“Wait, what? Despite spending twice as much per capita as any other country on healthcare, the United States literally does not have enough facilities to cover the entire population? That’s the Best Healthcare System In The World?”
That’s right, Serenity. When the anecdotal evidence is lacking, use statistical evidence that was compiled for the sole purpose of promoting socialized medicine. The very inclusion of the words “per capita” reveals you to be another faithful promoter of statistics that are designed to punish countries that are more prosperous and successful financially. The greater a country’s GDP, the more the statisticians FEEL the country SHOULD BE preventing death altogether. I’m so sick of that bullshit study in which the US finishes 37th precisely because it is a financially prosperous nation that isn’t MORE socialist in the distribution of its healthcare resources. Give it up.
#3: “The entertaining part is that the NHS is just showing the effects of a massive infestation of parasites like Serenity, who demand that society support them without their having to lift a finger. And then, of course, these same parasites like Serenity want to take over the US system, which has a very simple parasite safeguard; if you refuse to work and pay your bills, your access to health care is limited to what everyone else chooses to give you.”
Bingo, NDT. The only reason we are having this debate at all and now have Obamacare to contend with is because of a categorically false premise spread by the Left that the American healthcare system (and health insurance industry) is an unmitigated, horrific mess. It’s not, and if it were, the Obama Administration would have been able to produce more than a handful of people “victimized” by it.
You have also called out Serenity for her fu*ked up mindset on these issues to begin with. She bitches about hearing “no alternatives” but her assumption is that the only acceptable alternative must have as its objective handing out lavish health insurance coverage and healthcare benefits to millions and millions of people (legal and illegal) for “free.” She simply can’t entertain the concept of people being denied something they want even when they have the ability and opportunity to work for it and pay for it themselves and choose not to.
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 12:06 am - May 16, 2010
And what about the physicians? Why did we have no say in Obama and Pelosi’s horrible plan to destroy healthcare? No, the AMA doesn’t count. The AMA , AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics), and similar organizations are often full of the same people with dual membership. They are “academics”, which means they never really had an actual job as a doctor with a real practice they had to run, paying employees, rent, vaccine payments, etc. They see that type of life as beneath them. These are the type of doctors who stood by Obama in the Rose Garden in his photo op last year. The AMA and the AAP ( I am a pediatrician) has made sure physicians’ voices were not heard. There was nowhere for us to give our opinion unless it was support for the healthcare bill. The AAP newspaper contained no articles debating the pros and cons of “healthcare reform” as defined by the current democratic Congress; just how to call your representative to support it. This was orchestrated to give the impression that doctors were behind this monstrosity. The vast majority of us are NOT. We know this is a joke, a nightmare. We can’t survive as small businesses with this bill. Our payments will be reduced, and we cannot raise prices like other businesses. Staff will be cut. We know the ultimate goal for government is to run private physicians out of business, and to force all doctors to be employees of large medical centers, run by the government. Government will then have control over healthcare decisions.
Comment by Micky Dennis — May 16, 2010 @ 1:59 am - May 16, 2010
By the way- it is the Medicaid patients who go to the ER for every single thing. Constipation, bump on the head for two months, etc. They don’t have to pay a dime (for children on Medicaid). If they think they are waiting too long at the doctor’s office they will just get up and go to the ED. Of course, that costs the taxpayers much more, but the parents don’t care. They aren’t the ones paying. You better believe the Emergency Rooms will see an increase in traffic if you give people health insurance with no strings attached. (Of course, the rest of us who work harder will have to pay for ours or face a fine)
Comment by Micky Dennis — May 16, 2010 @ 2:19 am - May 16, 2010
#9: “You better believe the Emergency Rooms will see an increase in traffic if you give people health insurance with no strings attached. (Of course, the rest of us who work harder will have to pay for ours or face a fine)”
Right, Micky Dennis. One of the healthcare-related organizations that the Left paid no attention to is the American Academy of Family Physicians which has projected a shortage of 40,000 primary care physicians in the US by 2020. So, Obama has promised that the new law will provide “guaranteed” healthcare to all Americans and his idiot supporters like Levi and Serenity have clapped and jumped up and down with glee, but the problem is that there won’t be enough doctors to see all of these people in the first instance. So, instead of getting all of the uninsured people out of the emergency rooms like Obama has promised, it will ensure that every ER in America is standing room only–filled with the millions of people who are now “insured” and are “guaranteed” healthcare, but for some reason can’t find a primary care physician to squeeze them in even for a simple check-up.
But by then, Obama will be out of the White House and will have made $100 million or more on the speaking circuit. He won’t have to worry about healthcare for his family. Only regular folks like us will have to.
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 2:55 am - May 16, 2010
Good point about the AAP. Hey they’re the ones saying FGM isn’t so bad.
Comment by The_Livewire — May 16, 2010 @ 12:31 pm - May 16, 2010
#2: Serenity – it’s not all that hard for a person to come up with a primary care physician… a few minutes on a website of a call to any of the hospitals that offer free PCP referrals. Is the gubmint supposed to do everything?
The reason so many people show up at the ER is that 1) they’re too dumb and/or lazy to get a PCP 2) they don’t want to pay for anything.
I had a nasty sinus infection some months back. Being lazy and all, I didn’t have a PCP to call. So… I got in the car and headed over to Walgreen’s and consulted with a nurse-practitioner who diagnosed the problem and prescribed an antibiotic and an OTC remedy that had me cleared up in a week. The only catch was that I had to pay my own money (probably less than most people spend on a Saturday night out).
Medical care for everyday maladies is easily available.
I might add that family members in various medical occupations (physician, nurses, pharmacy techs) have an endless supply of anecdotes of patients gaming the system in ways that makes one’s blood boil.
Comment by SoCalRobert — May 16, 2010 @ 12:51 pm - May 16, 2010
I guess you’d prefer that poor people be turned away and die in the street so you don’t have to wait so long?
Maybe governments don’t offer perfect solutions but given my regular fights with my insurer to get them to pay for every little thing (and it’s nothing remotely major), I can’t say that the private sector is any better and is less accountable.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 16, 2010 @ 2:55 pm - May 16, 2010
#13: “I guess you’d prefer that poor people be turned away and die in the street so you don’t have to wait so long?”
Nope. That is not and never has been the position of any conservative on this issue. Incidentally, would you mind directing us to one or more cites documenting incidents where the poor and uninsured have been turned away from ERs to die in the street, Houndentenor? It’s such a common cliche for liberals to resort to when it comes to healthcare–accusing their opponents of being inhuman–surely there is SOME factual evidence to back up all the drama and hand-wringing.
“Maybe governments don’t offer perfect solutions but given my regular fights with my insurer to get them to pay for every little thing (and it’s nothing remotely major), I can’t say that the private sector is any better and is less accountable.”
Houndentenor, depending on the state you live in, if your health insurer denies you treatment or some other benefit that is included under your policy you are free to sue the bejesus out of the company (in most states with a claim for “bad faith” which could entitle you to millions in punitive damages if you prevailed). I realize that you assume Obamacare is perfect and that the system will never, EVER result in a single soul falling through the cracks or being denied whatever medical treatment or drug they need at any time regardless of the cost, but let’s just assume for the sake of argument that the unthinkable occurs–you need some type of treatment or surgery and the government refuses to pay for it for whatever reason. What then? I guess you’ll just sue the federal government for damages? Certainly, heads would roll for such an outrage, right? After all, according to you, the government is far more “accountable” than the private sector.
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 3:42 pm - May 16, 2010
You mean like the University of Chicago Medical Center does?
And whose brilliant idea was that, Houndentenor?
So again: Houndentenor is railing about poor people being turned away so that rich people can have better service — while endorsing and supporting his Barack Obama and his Obama Party doing exactly that.
HYPOCRITE!
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 16, 2010 @ 4:18 pm - May 16, 2010
Hound: Maybe governments don’t offer perfect solutions but given my regular fights with my insurer to get them to pay for every little thing (and it’s nothing remotely major), I can’t say that the private sector is any better and is less accountable.
And that, Houndentenor, is the very reason medical insurance is such a mess in this country. Why should insurance “pay for every little thing”?
Try a simple thought experiment: imagine that car insurance paid for “every little thing”… car washes, oil changes, routine tune-ups, fixing every parking lot ding. Now try to imagine what your car insurance would cost. Then add the liberal wish-list (pricing without regard to driving record and forcing companies to issue policies today to cover damage sustained yesterday…) and guess again.
Ditto Sean and NDT: please cite examples of people poor people dying in the streets after being turned away by some heartless ER doc. My medical relations tell me that the ER is often clogged up with people that have no legitimate reason to be there (some having been brought by ambulance at public expense since they couldn’t scare up a free ride any other way).
Comment by SoCalRobert — May 16, 2010 @ 5:41 pm - May 16, 2010
Oh ND30, you have a lot of nerve calling other people parasites. Dont’ you work in HR? That’s parasite central.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 16, 2010 @ 5:43 pm - May 16, 2010
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#17: “Dont’ you work in HR? That’s parasite central.”
Since when, loser? For starters, I know NDT works for a private company. Second, HR Departments, among their numerous responsibilities, are charged with rooting out malingering disability cases and workers’ compensation leeches. Obviously, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’ve also ignored the reasonable questions that have been raised by me and others, challenging you to back up your idiotic comments. Either do so, or go away.
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 6:38 pm - May 16, 2010
Houndentenor can’t do that. You’re asking too much.
Serenity:
1) Do you think Canada’s medical system is good?
2) If a Canadian province’s Supreme Court found that the Canadian socialized medical system resulted in such long waits for procedures that it effectively killed people, and that that in itself was a human rights violation… would you believe that source?
Think very carefully before you answer. Be sure to construct your answer with plenty of weasel words.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 16, 2010 @ 8:01 pm - May 16, 2010
From Glasgow Guide Boards:
And this is the glorious health system the liberal Statists want us to emulate. There’s a DAMN good reason we broke with the UK, Serenity. We grew tired of arrogant, elitist a-holes, who don’t have a fcking clue what they’re doing, telling us how to run our lives. For some damn reason, too many Americans decided that’s what they wanted in 2006 & 2008.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — May 17, 2010 @ 6:29 am - May 17, 2010
Forgot the link:
http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18609
Comment by ThatGayConservative — May 17, 2010 @ 6:31 am - May 17, 2010
And that, Houndentenor, is the very reason medical insurance is such a mess in this country. Why should insurance “pay for every little thing”?
Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap! Clap!
Comment by V the K — May 17, 2010 @ 6:54 am - May 17, 2010
Serenity reminded me of this very thorough article from a few years back:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006785
I would rather have the argument about how to bring US health care costs in line and I would be interested in why the Brits defend their system so vehemently. Why isn’t private care in the UK an open and available option for those who seek it? Dumbing down medical care to mass triage may seem egalitarian, but it is in fact a form of government crime against those who cost too much.
Comment by heliotrope — May 17, 2010 @ 5:27 pm - May 17, 2010
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