Islam: The First Cut Is The Deepest
I highly recommend Mark Steyn’s Washington Times column this weekend. He lays out a chilling case that those interested in advancing Political Islam are winning the ideological struggle hands-down.
Islam smells weakness at the heart of the West. The post-World War II order is dying: The European Union’s decision to toss a trillion dollars to prop up a Greek economic model that guarantees terminal insolvency is merely the latest manifestation of the chronic combination of fiscal profligacy and demographic decline in the West at twilight. Islam is already the biggest supplier of new Europeans and new Canadians, and the fastest-growing demographic in the western world. Therefore, it thinks it not unreasonable to shape the character of those societies – not by blowing up buildings and airplanes, but by determining the nature of their relationship to Islam.
For example, the very same day that Mr. Holder was doing his “Islam? What Islam?” routine at the Capitol, the Organization of the Islamic Conference was tightening its hold on the United Nations Human Rights Council - actually, make that the U.N. “Human Rights” Council. The OIC is the biggest voting bloc at the U.N. and it succeeded in getting its slate of candidates elected to the so-called “human rights” body – among them the Maldives, Qatar, Malaysia, Mauritania and Libya.
But along with the big headline victories go smaller ones. These days, Islam doesn’t even have to show up. The Metropolitan Museum of Art has quietly pulled representations of Muhammad from its Islamic collection. With the Danish cartoons, violent mobs actually had to kill large numbers of people before Kurt Westegaard was sent into involuntary “retirement.” Even with “South Park,” the thugs still had to threaten murder. But the Metropolitan Museum caved pre-emptively – no murders, no threats, but best to crawl into a fetal position, anyway.
Last week, the American Association of Pediatricians (AAP) noted that certain, ahem, “immigrant communities” were shipping their daughters overseas to undergo female genital mutilation FGM). So, in a spirit of multicultural compromise, they decided to amend their previous opposition to the practice: They’re not (for the moment) advocating full-scale clitoridectomies, but they are suggesting federal and state laws be changed to permit them to give a “ritual nick” to young girls.
So, our own Attorney General couldn’t even utter the words “Radical Islam” last week during a Congressional hearing. And liberals/feminists are silent about the chilling of free speech and mutilation of young women due to the PC-handling of Islam.
Enough said. Read the whole thing.
-Bruce (GayPatriot)
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Bravo to Mark Steyn. He keeps saying what needs to be said. Shame that so few will listen.
Comment by Guy — May 16, 2010 @ 3:45 pm - May 16, 2010
I too, have often wondered where all the so-called “feminists” were when it comes to the topic of oppressing, torturing, mutilating, and degrading women by Islamic “culture”.
The silence is deafening.
Comment by neomom — May 16, 2010 @ 4:10 pm - May 16, 2010
#2: “I too, have often wondered where all the so-called “feminists” were when it comes to the topic of oppressing, torturing, mutilating, and degrading women by Islamic “culture”.”
neomom, how can American feminists possibly take on radical Islam while they are engaged in such an all-encompassing battle against the draconian oppression faced by women here in the US? Those tireless advocates can’t be expected to condemn genital mutilation or honor killings while American women are being subjected to far worse oppression by being objectified as sexual playthings in action movies like Iron Man 2!
http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2010/05/11/gender-101-from-iron-man-2/
Ms. Magazine is busy bravely condemning Hollywood for insensitively depicting women in sexy outfits and dancing around poles, for God’s sake! Where’s the outrage for that travesty? Where’s the funding to fight that, I ask you?
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 5:06 pm - May 16, 2010
I’m with you on this one. There are those in Europe who do get this. Liberals need to understand that this is a culture that does not respect the human rights progress made over the last 50 years, especially for women.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 16, 2010 @ 5:36 pm - May 16, 2010
#4: “Liberals need to understand that this is a culture that does not respect the human rights progress made over the last 50 years, especially for women.”
Houndentenor, the President, the Attorney General, and the Secretary of Homeland Security need to understand this. They don’t. If you voted for Obama, neither do you.
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 6:32 pm - May 16, 2010
Your title, The First Cut Is the Deepest, comes from the Muslim songwriter Yusuf. He represents the best of moderate Islam, IMHO. (No, he didn’t call for the death of Salman Rushdie–he has addressed this in countless interviews.) I think that the more there are visible, moderate Muslims, the less tension there will be.
Islam is my second favorite religion. In its moderate form, it is a common-sense approach to life. It is like a monotheistic Confuncianism.
I suspect poverty is more the source of the violence in the Middle East than the Koran.
Genital mutilation is no more part of Islam than barebacking is part of the gay community.
Comment by Ashpenaz — May 16, 2010 @ 6:41 pm - May 16, 2010
Except that many of those who’ve engaged in the violence are not poor. But it sounds really nifty and makes a bleeding vag douchebag look like he cares.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — May 16, 2010 @ 6:57 pm - May 16, 2010
You “suspect” wrongly.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 16, 2010 @ 7:35 pm - May 16, 2010
Still waiting for answers from the Obama (D) administration about the Christmas Day bomber, the Ft Hood Massacre, the 9 day delay on containing the oil spill and the Times Sq bomber. All I believe, Obama said they wouldn’t rest until we had answers …….
tic toc…
wonder how many rounds of golf he played this weekend?
My guess……4.
Comment by Gene in Pennsylvania — May 16, 2010 @ 8:52 pm - May 16, 2010
Ashpenaz==I’m more referencing the violence against women and gays in Europe by Muslim men. The murders of Pim Fontuyn and Theo Van Gogh. The death threats against anyone who draws a picture of Mohammed. These things happened in the West, not in the middle east.
These issues ARE being discussed in Europe. The discussions are almost covered in the US media unless it involves wearing burkas. Even that coverage is dangerously superficial. But then god forbid an American reporter learn to speak French or German so they could follow news that wasn’t spoon fed to them in a press release from a corporation or whispered to them from a politician’s office.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 16, 2010 @ 9:00 pm - May 16, 2010
#10: “These issues ARE being discussed in Europe. The discussions are almost covered in the US media unless it involves wearing burkas. Even that coverage is dangerously superficial. But then god forbid an American reporter learn to speak French or German so they could follow news that wasn’t spoon fed to them in a press release from a corporation or whispered to them from a politician’s office.”
The fu*k they are, Houndetenor. The only thing being discussed in Europe is which country has done a better job of appeasing Islamist immigrants and implementing policies to hurry along their citizens’ assimilation to living in what will effectively be Muslim countries in a couple of decades. The UK is the worst–handing out multiple welfare checks to Muslim sister-wives who happen to be in polygamous marriages; requiring police to put little booties on the ‘unclean’ paws of their K-9 service animals before entering a Muslim household if they happen to be chasing a murderer lurking within; banning Geert Wilders from entering the country while letting in any Muslim lunatic that has no intentions beyond living on welfare and calling for the destruction of the West in London’s mosques…
France has had some discussion of this problem but ONLY because Sarkozy is not of the usual cowardly stock that the rest of the country’s elites are. It’s too late. He will fail and so will France when it comes to the Islamist threat because there are far too many liberal intellectuals surrounding him that have been ITCHING to surrender to another genocidal threat for over six decades.
And as far as the European press goes, you’re deluded by the usual pedestrian belief that if a Euro-weenie reporter publishes it, it is somehow smarter, more brilliant, more insightful, and more informed than the the “vulgar” conservative bloggers and reporters telling the real story right here in the US. Liberals suffer from the same condition when it comes to their ridiculous beliefs that European economic, healthcare, and employment systems are superior. You’re an ignorant fool. I lived in France and I am fluent in the language–believe me, the only reason to pick up a French paper (or any other western European rag for that matter) is to get a daily dose of anti-semitic, blame the Jooooooos propaganda. France remains good for only two things: cheese and couture. Otherwise, they’re completely worthless.
Comment by Sean A — May 16, 2010 @ 10:05 pm - May 16, 2010
Ash, you really really scare me. The Muslims must be high fiving right now. They have pulled the wool over the eyes of another gay American.
I guess your knowledge of religions comes from reading, and only from their propaganda. Have you not noticed what has been happening with real Islam these last ten years, not the crap you read about in your pretty little books.
Comment by Leah — May 16, 2010 @ 10:29 pm - May 16, 2010
I know that it’s the Anglicans in Nigeria that want to kill gay people. Do you think that is representative of worldwide Anglicanism, the same church that just ordained a lesbian bishop?
St. Francis was very open to Islam. John Paul II prayed in a mosque. I have prayed in a mosque, myself. When was the last time you even talked to a Muslim?
Comment by Ashpenaz — May 16, 2010 @ 10:50 pm - May 16, 2010
There’s another reason why no one addresses these issues. the Muslim countries have us by the balls. We are addicted to oil. We can all talk tough but no leader is going to take on these issues directly because we can’t afford to piss off the leaders of the oil producing countries. We are Saudi Arabia’s crack whore. Bush didn’t take this on either and for basically the same reason that Obama isn’t going to. I applaud Laura Bush for talking about women’s rights in the middle east but she only did it after her husband was on his way out of office.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 16, 2010 @ 10:57 pm - May 16, 2010
And this right here is why there’s no chance at bipartisan cooperation these days. I am agreeing about the problem and I’m getting attacked. I’m willing to work with conservatives on this issue but it doesn’t seem possible.
If someone wants to really discuss how to address this in a way that can make a real difference I am happy to have this discussion but I’m not interested in yet another round of “gotcha” politics.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 16, 2010 @ 11:00 pm - May 16, 2010
Ash, if poverty is the cause of violence in the Middle East or any where, then please tell me where are all the Haitian suicide bombers. Could it be that the desperately poor Haitians aren’t blowing themselves up because their religion doesn’t tell them to kill the infidels?
Comment by Seane-Anna — May 16, 2010 @ 11:21 pm - May 16, 2010
Leah, Ash is a game-player, i.e. a troll. He baits good people here with the occasional sensible-sounding, anti-Obama or anti-Gay left comment that seems to make sense; then turns around and tries to put over the same trash we see the other left-wing trolls put forth in defense of Obama and/or the Gay Left. With, of course, nothing resembling a reasoned argument.
For but one small example, simply contrast his remark in this thread:
With this other very recent remark in another thread:
In other words: In one thread, he is perfectly happy to define the gay community, as it were, by its real or imagined promiscuity, drug use and [other] toxic behavior. Which last point must surely include barebacking, if it means anything. Fine. You could make that argument about the gay community, if you want. NDT does, and he does a good job of it. But in this thread, Ash needs to pretend he would neeeeever try to define a community, broad-brush style, by some behavior (like barebacking or genital mutilation). Because that pretense better serves his purpose better, in this thread, of trying to put over some rather demented left-wing shibboleths about Islam.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 16, 2010 @ 11:21 pm - May 16, 2010
Evidence, please.
I know that Anglicans in Nigeria have a late-medieval view of homosexuality as something intrinsically disordered. They have supported prison sentences for Anglican priests who perform gay marriages. And one of their number, one Bishop Orama, was reported in 2007 as saying gays are “not fit to live” in his opinion; but the reports were disputed.
All that is bad, and I condemn it. But… wanting to go out and kill gay people? Calling specifically for gays to be killed? At present, the Muslims have a monopoly on that one, Ash. As well as a monopoly on doing it. In Nigeria, as an example, it is Islamic law (Sharia) that provides for putting gays to death.
OR, maybe I’m wrong and you have evidence for your claim. If you do, then kindly put it up now. (Now, as in “put up or shut up”.)
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 16, 2010 @ 11:51 pm - May 16, 2010
I posted an article sometime ago on my fb page about the “Ritual Nick” and had I don’t think one single comment on it. I post many political articles over there and many from here.
Gays won’t “get it” until they start getting killed here in the states by Muslims, then again maybe they still won’t “get it” .
Comment by Left Leaning Lesbian — May 17, 2010 @ 12:13 am - May 17, 2010
#19: “Gays won’t “get it” until they start getting killed here in the states by Muslims, then again maybe they still won’t “get it” .”
When Muslims start killing gays in the US because it is the will of Allah, the gays will “get” whatever it is they are told to “get” by their slave masters in the Democratic Party. And for anyone who thinks I’m being sarcastic, I have three words for you: Queers For Palestine.
Comment by Sean A — May 17, 2010 @ 1:15 am - May 17, 2010
#14: “There’s another reason why no one addresses these issues. the Muslim countries have us by the balls. We are addicted to oil. We can all talk tough but no leader is going to take on these issues directly because we can’t afford to piss off the leaders of the oil producing countries. We are Saudi Arabia’s crack whore. Bush didn’t take this on either and for basically the same reason that Obama isn’t going to. I applaud Laura Bush for talking about women’s rights in the middle east but she only did it after her husband was on his way out of office.”
Houndentenor, please go to bed. You ignore the questions of other commenters that categorically expose your idiotic and unsupported statements and instead post more comments taking us all down the rabbit-hole of your ignorance. There has not been a new oil refinery built in this country since 1976 and the Democratic Party has spent the last four decades ensuring that our dependence on foreign oil continues in perpetuity. And every overture related to the expansion of drilling and domestic oil production has been met with histrionic outrage from the Left and the usual demonization of the GOP leaders who suggest it.
And you’re full of it regarding Bush–given the Left’s successful campaign to block all environmentally responsible new domestic oil production, he had no choice but to work with oil producers like Saudi Arabia to keep supply and prices at reasonable levels. The Left predictably criticized Bush for visiting Saudi Arabia in 2008 (idiot Chuck Schumer said, “The President seems to value his friendship with the Saudis more than his obligation to help the American people with gas prices.”) But during his trip, Bush persuaded the Saudis to boost their oil output by 300,000 barrels a day–the best anyone could do considering our lack of leverage. That same week, the Democrats voted to prevent domestic production from oil shale. So, if Muslim oil-producing countries have us by the balls, it’s thanks to the fu*king losers in the Democratic Party–the ones you robotically support and shill for.
And no surprise–you’re also a pathetic liar regarding Laura Bush and her support of women’s rights in the Muslim world. A simple 30-second search on google produced a multitude of stories documenting Mrs. Bush visiting middle eastern countries DURING HER HUSBAND’S PRESIDENCY (2005) and calling unequivocally for women in the middle east to be free from oppression and to be granted equal rights to speak, vote, worship freely, and pursue an education.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4569143.stm
So, your assertion that Laura Bush was silent until “after her husband was on his way out of office” is nothing but a lie you pulled directly out of your ignorant a*s.
(In constrast, by the way, Obama’s wife has “courageously” taken on childhood obesity solely because it will open the door for more overpaid union jobs for the slack-jawed retards in the SEIU. Yeah, that Michelle is a real inspiration.)
#15: “And this right here is why there’s no chance at bipartisan cooperation these days. I am agreeing about the problem and I’m getting attacked. I’m willing to work with conservatives on this issue but it doesn’t seem possible.”
Give us a break. There is nothing noble in your purported willingness to “work with” conservatives to achieve “bipartisan cooperation” because you’re a liar and you categorically reject the most effective and immediate solutions to the problems you admit exist. You admit we’re hooked on foreign oil and you criticize the GOP for not “taking on the issue” (whatever that means), but you simultaneously support a party that has blocked every effort to expand domestic oil production (even when the plan includes the development of all of the inefficient, ineffective renewable energy schemes that are on the Left’s wishlist like wind, solar, and unicorn/rainbow power). That position has not changed in decades and will NOT change in the foreseeable future so there’s nothing left to discuss. Your Party’s position is: scream that there is a problem; block all feasible and responsible solutions to the problem; and blame Republicans for not fixing the problem. When the Left is ready to fix this country’s dependence on foreign oil with reasonable solutions that don’t include destroying the US economy in the process then you’ll have some credibility, but until then, please go fu*k yourself.
Comment by Sean A — May 17, 2010 @ 2:39 am - May 17, 2010
You could start by demanding that Il Douche drill here and drill now. You can tell my dumbass Sen. Nelson to cram it.
Florida is having a special session of the legislature to work on a constitutional ban on drilling off Florida. Sen. Nelson (D, Space Ace) sent out an e-mail supporting it. He said that 90% of oil in the Gulf is nowhere near Florida. If true, that sorta makes a ban pointless, doesn’t it?
He also said that the oil companies were only interested in drilling for the eeeevil profits. If there’s no oil out there, how can they make eeeeevil profits? And how many Floridians and other Americans count on those profits for their 401(K)s and IRAs. The city, county and state employees do.
Will you, Houndentenor tell your ideologues to STFU? Will you demand that they stop trying to control the populace via fear?
Comment by ThatGayConservative — May 17, 2010 @ 6:02 am - May 17, 2010
I hope those who thought “Everyone Draw Mohammed Day” was a really bad idea (and this includes you, Dan) read Stein’s piece.
Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — May 17, 2010 @ 8:57 am - May 17, 2010
Ashpenaz at #13:
About what? Whether he was the universal example of Islam? Whether he had ambitions for a caliphate? What jihad means to him? Why pork and beans is better without the pork. Whether three wives triple the meaning of fidelity? Whether saying “I divorce you three times” is rule enough for an ordered society? How to slaughter the camel you just buggered? Why marrying little girls is cohesive for a properly organized Muslim society? Why some men get to decide the rules and particulars of Sharia and back their insights with fatwas that are obeyed with mind numbingly enthusiastic dedication?
You have prayed in a Mosque. To whom? For what? What did it do for you, besides give you some sense of “solidarity” with the “brotherhood” of man? Was the mosque part of an Islamic outreach program aimed at making peace with gays? Do you read the outpourings from CAIR and feel it is your second most favorite political organization after secular liberalism?
Since you have an affinity for Islam, perhaps you can quote the part of the Koran that approximates the Golden Rule. You can find that rule in Taoism, Shintoism, Buddhism, the works of Confucius, and even the most sacred text of all: the UN Charter. Please locate it in the Koran or the sacred Islamic writings. I want to see it, embrace it, touch it.
Comment by heliotrope — May 17, 2010 @ 9:19 am - May 17, 2010
Guys: Good points… and what about nuclear? What about the Dems blocking that as well, all this time?
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 17, 2010 @ 9:39 am - May 17, 2010
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. When your world view is focused through the lens of how evil, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, fascistic, etc… the US is then any group or country that thinks the US is bad can only be thought of as a friend. Too many fall into the misguided belief that only evil devolves from the freedom of expression and exchange of ideas. Unfortunately some that believe that also ascribe to a religious belief that not only demeans and degrades half the population. They want to impose that belief system on the rest of us at the end of a gun barrel.
A few centuries back some pretty smart folks set up a system that works pretty good. When more folks in this country learn that our system of laws and beliefs came about because they realized that for all the potential problems that may come from the freedoms we have here, the alternative (history is replete with examples of all the other system failures) is so repulsive we accept that with freedom must come an equal responsibility. The wisdom to understand that to live in a grown-up world you must accept the responsibility that goes with it. Too many in this country and around the world live their lives with the belief that you have freedoms but there are no consequences. I have the right to not be offended by your exercise of your rights. Unfortunately that particular world view leads to a schizophrenic system of laws that is impossible to enforce equally. This leads inevitably to a totalitarian system and the loss of all freedoms.
Comment by Delusional Bill — May 17, 2010 @ 9:39 am - May 17, 2010
Ash, when was the last time you even visited a Muslim country?
Everyone here who has been to at least two Muslim countries and talked with the people there about some of these issues, raise your hand. (ILC raises hand, looks to see if Ash is raising his.)
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 17, 2010 @ 9:41 am - May 17, 2010
Everyone here who has been to at least two Muslim countries and talked with the people there about some of these issues, raise your hand.
(Does not raise hand). ILC, I’m afraid I will not visit any country in which either 50% or 100% of their citizens have the same rights as a pile of dirt.
I think this relates to what my biggest problem with Islam. For the most part, I don’t have a problem with most individuals. There is a Muslim family that lives across the street. No problem there. And I don’t have a problem with the Koran, whatever it says (I’ve never read it, but heard people state what it says, sometimes contradictory). The problem is there is a significant element of people, who in the name of Islam, want to establish repugnant sharia law, not just for them, but for everyone else; commit acts of violence, either because one doesn’t see their world view, or for some other arbitrary reason; that there are Islamic governments that are repressive in the name of their religion.
Christianity went through it’s naughty period. But it’s the 21st Century now. We have to let go of outdated and dangerous ideals, even if they are in sacred texts. Christians have done it (for the most part). And if Islam wants to be part of the civilized world, they will have to as well. And if the rest of the world is not ready or willing to combat the worst that Islam has to offer, then we will all be part of this uncivilized world.
Comment by Pat — May 17, 2010 @ 10:09 am - May 17, 2010
Pat, despite having made a different choice, I appreciate what you’re saying. I won’t travel to Cuba for similar reasons (not wanting to prop up a bad system).
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 17, 2010 @ 10:42 am - May 17, 2010
And I won’t travel to Arizona.
Comment by Ashpenaz — May 17, 2010 @ 10:48 am - May 17, 2010
… because the good citizens dared to protect themselves from the influx of criminals coming across their border with Mexico.
I’m the opposite: Now would be a great time to make a point of going to Arizona. Never been to the Grand Canyon; always wanted to go. Maybe there’s a hiking/adventure trip there for gay guys.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 17, 2010 @ 10:54 am - May 17, 2010
ILC, Arizona is a beautiful state. Been there briefly about 17 years ago. The Grand Canyon is beautiful. And also drove past Sedona, which is pretty cool. Stayed in Phoenix for a day or two. It’s okay, as far as sprawling cities go. Would go again, but have many other places I would like to see before I head back there.
As far as the Arizona law, I guess I’m much more tolerant of laws that protect it’s citizens and visitors there legally, as opposed to ones where you could be killed for being gay, Jewish, or not wearing a burka (if you are a woman). But that’s me.
Comment by Pat — May 17, 2010 @ 11:05 am - May 17, 2010
Great comments. Glad I posted this.
Sidenote: Since they don’t hang gays in Arizona, make women act like 2nd class citizens, and are enforcing Federal immigrations laws — PatriotPartner & I are making plans now to spend our money in Arizona!
Comment by GayPatriot — May 17, 2010 @ 12:51 pm - May 17, 2010
Where did Islam come from, and how did it get so supremacist, intolerant and violent? Find out how deep its rabbit hole goes by studying Islam’s complete history free anytime with the Historyscoper at http://go.to/islamhistory
Find out how deep Obama’s rabbit hole goes with the Historyscoper’s free Obamascope:
http://historyscoper.com/obamascope.html
Comment by Historyscoper — May 17, 2010 @ 1:41 pm - May 17, 2010
Yanno, a month ago I was supporting the Obama administration’s decision to open up more offshore drilling. It’s not a perfect solution to our dependence on foreign oil (obviously the best solution is drastically reduce our use of all oil, but that is going to take awhile). But given recent developments in the Gulf (where I am from, btw), I’m concerned about opening up more drilling and having this happen again.
I also don’t have the power to make people STFU. If I did believe me I’d use it. There are plenty of idiots on the right and the left that I am sick and tired of hearing mouth off. I do not have that power.
Back to the main topic: women’s rights in the middle east, I am going to start this discussion with women and plan to bring it up on some online forums. It’s not much. I was just in a heated discussion about the policy of banning the burka but that pales in comparison to some of the human rights abuses against women in the arab countries. I would recommend reading A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini. I have no idea how accurate a representation that is of women’s lives in Afghanistan, but it was certainly compelling and moving.
Comment by Houndentenor — May 17, 2010 @ 5:33 pm - May 17, 2010
I can’t believe Ash forgot to tell us how beautifully written and moving the
KoranQur’an is — even if it does contain one or two outdated passages just like the OT!.(It’s possible that the Koran sounds pretty at a purely phonetic level in the original Arabic. But any non-Arabic speaker who praises the Koran for its literary qualities is almost certainly a complete tool who’s never pulled on the hip-waders and attempted to slodge through any of the English translations — it’s a MESS.)
The only Muslim country I’ve “visited” — and in fact, lived in for three years — is Turkey, but that was back in the early ’80s, and most of the Turks that I knew in Ankara were probably rather secularized and Western-leaning even compared to other Turks, let alone the entire ummah.
I also have several Muslim relatives on my dad’s side — by blood, an aunt and a cousin who wear hijab, plus their respective husbands, and the cousin’s children. They’re great people, but out of my entire extended family on both sides, they’re the only ones who did the “Mary had a little lamb, la-la-la, I’m not hearing this” when I came out to them. (Though, in fairness, they didn’t stop speaking to me or anything — they just made it clear that the reason for my perpetual bachelorhood was taboo.) And they’re also predictably anti-Israel and pro-Palestine, but as far as I can tell, they’re no worse in this regard than the average “progressive.”
Comment by Throbert McGee — May 17, 2010 @ 5:42 pm - May 17, 2010
‘a month ago I was supporting the Obama administration’s decision to open up more offshore drilling.’
Except, houndenator, his efforts took more OFF the list for drilling, than they put on.
No wonder you supported it.
Comment by Otter — May 17, 2010 @ 5:48 pm - May 17, 2010
Also, my parents have close friends who lived in Saudi Arabia for a number of years, working for a Western oil company. The husband — an average white American dude — is always polite and diplomatic when speaking about the Saudis, but his wife is Pilipina and thus does not feel the slightest bit constrained by the whole White Guilt thing. Get her started and she will happily bend your ear about what disgusting and hypocritical pigs most Saudi men are.
Comment by Throbert McGee — May 17, 2010 @ 6:00 pm - May 17, 2010
Hands up. I spent 3 months in Europe when I was 19 (in the early 80′s) While there I met a stunning French-Morrocan and took a side trip to Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Didn’t learn much about politics that time around.
Flash forward 25+ years where recent travels have take us to Turkey, Dubai, Qatar and back to Jordan and Syria. Dubai, Qatar and the last trip to Istanbul were all medical conferences in which I got to hang with the other spouses which included many Muslims, albeit mostly women. And quite frankly, I didn’t learn much more this time around. It is the most complex society I have ever been around. For the most part, they didn’t have much of an appetite for discussing social or political issues, though I did get the notion they held considerable disdain for fundamentalist Muslims. They were also aware I was part of a same-sex couple, but if anyone had a problem with it I never knew.
Comment by David in N.O. — May 18, 2010 @ 4:34 pm - May 18, 2010