Elton John, Rush Limbaugh, Leftist Narratives & Building Bridges
As I’ve been traveling cross country, I have not been able to address (or able to address only in a cursory manner) many of the stories which have set the blogosphere aflame. From my readers, I learn that some left-wing gay bloggers have gotten their panties all in a bundle (apologies for the indecorous language) over the fact that Sir Elton John sang at Rush Limbaugh’s wedding.
Now, I’ve heard it said that the conservative talk show host is anti-gay, yet having listened to him on occasion for the past 18 years, I can’t recall hearing the talker toss one anti-gay barb. Maybe I missed something, but have heard the accusation only from those whose credibility I question (i.e., liberals with an axe to grind or a narrative to peddle).
Citing Zev Chafets’s new book (of which I have a review copy which I’ve been trying to get to on this trip, Allapundit observes that “Limbaugh’s view on gays is a tad more nuanced than the left would like to believe.” (Via Instapundit.)
Seems they’ve determined he must needs be anti-gay because he’s an outspoken conservative. (To some on the left, the two (invariably) go hand in hand.)
The blogger offers:
Via Mediaite, a rebuttal to lefties and gay-rights activists speculating that the only reason a guy who’s in a civil union would play the wedding of an alleged neo-Hitlerian gay-hater is for a $1 million payday. (Sample quote: “Isn’t that a bit like Beyoncé entertaining at a KKK rally?”) Two things. First, Kelly quotes Elton as having said that he’s “all about tearing down walls and building bridges,” which is true to form.
Emphasis added.
Gay rights activists could benefit from this type of bridge building to the right. After all, one of the greatest congregations of people who oppose increased social acceptance of gay people (not to mention the left-wing agenda of the national gay groups) is found on the right.
You can’t change minds unless you build bridges to them.
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Think of 10 gay couples that you know. How many of them are lifelong and sexually exclusive?
Think of 10 straight couples that you know. How many of them are lifelong and sexually exclusive?
I would suspect that Rush’s opinion of gay marriage is based on the obvious insight that gays don’t play by the same rules as straights. Most people assume that gays behave the way gays behave in public.
If you were a conservative who wanted to explore the reality of the gay community, and you picked 20 gays at random, what would you find? How many of them would be athiests who have multiple partners? How many would define “monogamy” as an open relationship? How many would be “spiritual but not religious” and at the bars every night? How many would be in lifelong, sexually exclusive relationships? How many would be church-going believers? Would the conservative walk away thinking that his initial insight that gays play by different rules than straights be validated by his investigation or not?
Do you really think that Elton is in a lifelong, sexually exclusive relationship?
Comment by Ashpenaz — June 8, 2010 @ 10:10 am - June 8, 2010
Ashpenaz :
“Do you really think that Elton is in a lifelong, sexually exclusive relationship?”
Is Rush? Glen Beck? Bill O’?
So, if I am gay but not in “lifelong, sexually exclusive relationship”, I am not worthy.
But, if I am straight and not in “lifelong, sexually exclusive relationship”, I am worthy?
I have been with the same partner since 1981. Am I worthy yet, or do I have to wait until I die with the same partner to be worthy.
“Where do you live?”
“Bailey Island.”
“Lived there your whole life?”
“Not yet.”
Your trumpet only plays one tune. It ain’t a pretty one.
You expect a group of people who are denied the chance to develop sexually and socially to behave according to the standards of some fantasy vision you have of heterosexuals.
Now, when a gay 13yo can approach another 13yo male in middle school and ask him out on a date without fear of being teased/taunted/bullied/beat up, maybe then we can have this conversion.
Now, when a lesbian senior wants to invite her girlfriend to the prom without fear of being teased/taunted/bullied/beat up, maybe then we can have this conversion.
You seem to think sexuality develops at 18.
You want to see how well behaved heterosexual 20-somethings are, watch some “Girls Gone Bad” or “Boys Gone Bad” videos. Or MTV’s “Spring Break”. They make gays look tame..
Comment by TnnsNE1 — June 8, 2010 @ 10:25 am - June 8, 2010
Rush Limbaugh is a bad example for you to use, Ash. This is what? Marriage #3 now to a woman half his age no less?
Comment by John — June 8, 2010 @ 11:18 am - June 8, 2010
Thank you, TnnsNE1, for putting Ash in his place. If I have to hear his whining about gay male relationships one more time, I think my head will explode.
Ash, it’s simple. Each of us is different; we were raised differently, we think differently, we live different lives: in short, we have different outcomes. I agree that there are some things that could be changed about the gay community, but YOUR morality will never fit me. Please stop trying to impose it.
Comment by jwxford2 — June 8, 2010 @ 11:25 am - June 8, 2010
as a conservative, I may not be gay or want to “promote” the gay lifstyle or gay marriage, but I would also defend to the death, the rights of a gay person to be free from coercion, physical or mental persecution and death based on his or her sexual orientation or any other personal belief. If someone is gay it does not effect my opinion of that person as to their talents, rights or expertise. Just because someone is heterosexual, does not make them a btter person than someone who is gay.
(and probably alot of other conservatives may think the way I do, but really I just think of myself as an idependent thinker, choosing what I want to believe. there is alot more variety to “conservatives” than the msm will ever care to know about)
It is when I have to lock-step with any social and/or political movement that would cause me to have to draw a “line in the sand” and publically voice any oppositions I have with the gay lifestyle, which btw is not the same for every gay person.
For instance, I do not think all gays are born gay but I do believe that some gays are born gay. Also, if I do not agree with gay marriage, it is not just because I am straight. Other gays agree with me on this issue, just as gays agree with conservatives on a host of other issues, maybe not everything, but on some issues and ideas.
i hope i have not offended anyone. I could say more but I am a bit awkward in explaining my opinion on this issue. I enjoy Gay Patriot tremendously and promote this site whenever I can.
cheers, peace, love & soul.
Comment by lu-ee — June 8, 2010 @ 11:27 am - June 8, 2010
For a moment, I thought ash was NDT….. Dude, you’re really good at that channeling thing!!!!
But seriously. I don’t understand this compulsion to see gays as somehow so much different than straight society. Look at the divorce rate of those who are able to get married. Isn’t it something like 57% to 60% of first marriages fail? Many if not most of those failures are due at least in part to cheating by one side or the other, or both. The one way that gay society differs from straight is that gays, as a rule, can be more open and honest about the idea of being in a no-monogamous relationship. I’m not saying it’s a better thing, but at least it’s more honest.
Where are you meeting these couples? And how old are they. If these are your bar friends, and young, then it’s likely they are not ready to settle down. They may “want” to be in theory, but they are not, in real life, ready. Or they truly have no problem with being in an open relationship. If you live in a bigger city, and you and all your friends frequent gay bars, then you are going to see a high proportion of this attitude. Those who are not into this type of thing, me and the Sonic-mate for example, will rarely be found in a gay bar.
As a subset of society, we probably do have more acceptance of “alternate” types of relationship structures. But, guess what, if you surveyed many of the guys that frequent straight bars, and ask them if they would love to be in the same kind of relationships, except with girls, a vast majority of bar hopping straight guys would go “Fuck yeah, that would be awesome!”. The reason why you don’t see it much, or at least openly, is because women aren’t, as a general rule, wired to want that kind of thing.
Gotta go work now.
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 8, 2010 @ 12:05 pm - June 8, 2010
spam filter!
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 8, 2010 @ 12:05 pm - June 8, 2010
That bitch is getting paid, make it rain Elton. Make it rain.
Comment by darkeyedresolve — June 8, 2010 @ 12:30 pm - June 8, 2010
“Think of 10 straight couples that you know. How many of them are lifelong and sexually exclusive?”
– Well, actually…all 10 of them.
“Rush Limbaugh is a bad example for you to use, Ash. This is what? Marriage #3 now to a woman half his age no less?”
– Actually, it’s Marriage #4. That we know of.
Thanks for playing. Please try again.
Maybe it’s time to ask who’s paying Ashpenaz to come up with this garbage.
Comment by Lori Heine — June 8, 2010 @ 12:38 pm - June 8, 2010
Most liberals, in my experience, don’t do a very good job differentiating between different types of conservatives. They frequently view conservatives as a monolith and then accuse conservatives of hypocrisy when one conservative doesn’t behave according to the beliefs of a different conservative. For instance, people accused Bill Bennett of hypocrisy since he really likes (or at least used to like) to gamble. But he never, to my knowledge, expressed any moral reservations about gambling. People can argue about whether it’s right for a person to gamble, but gambling isn’t hypocritical just because some on one’s side of a political spectrum takes a hard stand against it while one chooses to gamble. Likewise, Rush hasn’t been much of a moralizer, at least not in any way the same mode as, say, Jim Dobson or Pat Robertson. He has always thrived on irreverence and often is slightly crude. While he supports Christianity, I don’t think he’s ever claimed to be a good Christian. One can criticize him for his failed marriages and other failings in his personal life, but I don’t think he pretends to be something he isn’t.
Comment by chad — June 8, 2010 @ 1:09 pm - June 8, 2010
One of my trolls came up with this list of Rush’s alleged anti-gay comments:
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/homophobia-rush-limbaughs-top-anti-gay-quotes/discrimination/2009/03/05/517
So the “anti-gay” remarks consist of
1. The Parody Song “Banking Queen.” (Oh, Noes! Making fun of a gay politician who was sleeping with the Fannie Mae executive responsible for expanding bad loans to minorities and using his position to block regulatory oversight of Fannie Mae… that’s so offensive
2, An allusion to minority groups letting Democrats “do sex to them.” (Which was apparently not offensive when SNL did it.
3. Asserting that Democrats weren’t offended by what Mark Foley did. (Which they weren’t when Mark Foley was named Gerry Studds (or Sam Adams) and actually did the deed rather than just sending inappropriate text messages.)
4. Pointing out that some flaming homosexuals are trying to draw attention to themselves by being flaming homosexuals.
5. Making a reference to gay sexual proclivities that’s been used as a joke about 20,000 times on ‘Family Guy’ without ruffling any feathers.
And then Rush makes the case that ‘abortion on demand’ (i.e. “Choice”) means it’s okay for a woman to abort her baby if it carries the elusive ‘gay gene.’ This should be a moral dilemma for liberals, but since liberals don’t have any morals… it’s not.
Comment by V the K — June 8, 2010 @ 1:20 pm - June 8, 2010
Rush is a great example for Ash.. He thinks all heterosexuals are in life long, sexually exclusive relationships.
As for the 10 couples thing : How do you really know? You don’t. People are very good at hiding these things.
Look at the “swingers” websites. There are lots of “open” heterosexual marriages.
June and Ward are no longer the norm, if they ever were.
We see tons of ads with 10-14 yo heterosexual couples on TV.. Where are the gay couples of that age in the media? Raise your hand if you knew you were gay/lesbian by the time you were 14..
If you can’t take a same gender date to the prom, isn’t the conversation about same gender marriage a bit premature?
Comment by TnnsNE1 — June 8, 2010 @ 2:11 pm - June 8, 2010
Note that Rush gets divorced, which means he pays a legal and monetary penalty for each failed relationship. Are gays willing to pay money to every failed relationship, for the rest of their lives?
The fact that people here mock “lifelong, sexually exclusive” relationships is why people aren’t going to vote for gay marriage. Comments like “YOUR morality will never fit me. Please stop trying to impose it” are the very things which prevent people like Rush from supporting gay marriage. For Rush, and Glenn Beck, and me. and the Tea Party people, and most conservatives there is ONE morality for everyone.
There is no place in the world where you can find 10 lifelong, sexually exclusive gay relationships within a 50-mile radius. You are simply lying.
Comment by Ashpenaz — June 8, 2010 @ 2:15 pm - June 8, 2010
OK. Of all the stupid things I’ve seen in my five years of both commenting here and blogging, that has to be one of the most inane and unsupportable statements I’ve ever seen… maybe with the exception of This.. Me and the Sonic-Mate have been exclusive for 14 years as of July 17th. The lesbian couple down the street is long term exclusive (AFAIK) and have a couple of kids. My former neighbors in my old neighborhood, have been together for 25 years I think. They live about a mile and a half away. So, that would be three couples within a two mile radius of each other. Your chances of winning this, if it were a bet, are slim to none.
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 8, 2010 @ 3:32 pm - June 8, 2010
That’s 3. . .
I’m not sure why it’s so important to deny the reality of what most gays experience. Lifelong, sexual exclusivity is simply not the norm for most gays, or even a large percentage. There’s a vocal set of gays who think such moral standards are a sellout to breeders.
I feel like Bill Cosby trying to say there is a problem with single motherhood in the black community. “No there’s not!!! Every black child I know is being raised by both his parents in a functional home so stop saying that!!!”
Comment by Ashpenaz — June 8, 2010 @ 4:26 pm - June 8, 2010
Yes, Rush Limbaugh. The man who had heart surgery and then said words to the effect of “It only cost about the same as mid-sized SUV, people buy SUVs all the times, what’s all this about high healthcare costs?”. Financially, he doesn’t even live on the same planet as you or I.
Are straights? Straight people have failed relationships where they didn’t get married, would you force them to pay money for each one?
Comment by Serenity — June 8, 2010 @ 4:27 pm - June 8, 2010
Rush just got married to Kathryn Rogers who was 33 (rush boy 58). This was his fourth marriage. Maybe his interest in having Elton sing at the wedding was a simple wedding present to his bride, maybe Rush likes Elton and his music for they are about the same age, or maybe it was a great show for the wedding party and guests. Not many folk can pay the ‘wedding singer’ a mere $1 mill. But hey, it sounded like a fun party.
Ash, I have lived in several parts of the country, metro areas Seattle, Portland and DC and rural areas of Eastern Wash, Idaho and Montana.
I know of many very stable gay and lesbian couples who have celebrated 15-20-even 30 year anniversaries. Now some of those relationships had dark troubled waters, but these folk like other committed folk get through because of their committment, their faith and their families. Yes Ash I also know of the party folk who, used to have blackbooks but now have Iphones with many ‘one-night-stand’ contacts. Heck there are probably even some of those gayfolk who have anonymous sex. But like other commentors who have pointed, gay folk and straight folk have many similiarities when it comes to ‘relationships’ and conduct.
but Ash, I just found something during a little search on K. Mehlman and you might want to pay special attention to end of this Larry King Youtube . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Jub4Itpm4
Comment by rusty — June 8, 2010 @ 4:49 pm - June 8, 2010
I’m guessing that what you’re saying is that because I think sex is only moral within a lifelong, sexually exclusive, publicly accountable relationship, I am a self-hating gay man. It couldn’t be because I’m a person who truly respects himself and believes his sexuality is a gift from God to be used with prudence and wisdom and maturity. I think that the promiscuity of the gay community is due to shame and self-hatred, and if gays were given the same sort of “abstinence-only” sex education many straights get early on, they’d respect themselves and each other enough to wait until they were married.
“Stable” does not mean “sexually exclusive.” I have no respect for gays or straights who are in “stable,” “monogamous” open relationships.
Straights and gays are not similar in their sexual behavior. That’s a myth. That’s like saying Muslims and Christians are both equally prone to terrorism.
Comment by Ashpenaz — June 8, 2010 @ 5:01 pm - June 8, 2010
“Straights and gays are not similar in their sexual behavior. That’s a myth.”
Speak for yourself. And, like others here who’ve flung around the charge of “liar” at others, it is most likely true of you.
You are one screwed-up little dude.
Comment by Lori Heine — June 8, 2010 @ 5:11 pm - June 8, 2010
Here is a question for ash : Why do you hold the gay community to a different standard then you hold the non-gay community?
You know the non-gay couple living next door to you, the ones married for 20 years? How do you know for a fact that they are not swingers?
Could it be that you dislike the honesty of the gay community concerning this issue and would prefer that they lie, that they hide it?
I am almost 50… I have been with my partner 28+ years. We are monogamous. My 4 straight siblings are not. So, there….
Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 8, 2010 @ 6:53 pm - June 8, 2010
It does indeed seem to be true that the Leftist media will brand any outspoken conservative as “anti-gay” whether they are or not. From what I’ve heard Rush say, he seems like a great many of them — not terribly concerned about our well-being, but not really out to get us, either.
It would help, for sure, if more of us refused to toady to the Left. Most of the conservatives with whom I’ve spoken — even those who aren’t terribly favorably inclined toward gays — don’t really have anything against us. It is the perception that we’re attached to the Leftist political machine like a Siamese twin.
Comment by Lori Heine — June 8, 2010 @ 7:20 pm - June 8, 2010
Hells, my record of marriage is 6 years, and that’s with my wife cheating on me at least one of those years.
I’m happy to see any relationship last long. I think it’s a failure of Ash’s that he can’t make a marriage last, so he wishes ill on everyone else’s.
And I’ll admit, I’m envious of people who can make it work, I wish Rush all the best.
Serenity, how much are you willing to pay for your life? I dropped 150 on my dog’s health, and my partner dropped 10 times that when she got him.
Strangely enough, Rush does live in th same world with us. He’s just successful that he doesn’t need health insurance. I’m not, so I chose my employer accordingly.
Comment by The_Livewire — June 8, 2010 @ 7:58 pm - June 8, 2010
I have nothign against gays, then again, I am of the libertarian bent where I think that whatever my personal opinion is, your sex life is none of my business one way or the other, approve or disapprove, so long as both involved parties are adult and willing.
WHat turns me off to allot of gays are things having nothign to do whatsoever with their sexuality, or at least not specifically with their version of it: I don’t like the same things in heterosexuals; In your face sex. Just keep it out of my face and I don’t really care.
Also my libertarian bent is offended by the attitude that many seem to have of “Not only should we have equal rights”(Cool, no problem) “But you should also be forced to approve(Not cool)
As far as marriage: Make the legal contract stuff available. If any given church wants to call it a marriage, it should be up to them . . .
Comment by Ryan — June 8, 2010 @ 8:16 pm - June 8, 2010
Where are you getting this stuff???? Do you have any links to back this redulous claim? What exactly is supposed to be so different?
Drug use before sex? Both groups do that.
Anal sex? Never had a girl who said she did, but some do.
Multiple partners or orgy? My straight rocker neighbors on India St in San Diego used to have them fairly frequently. One year, the college swim team that I was on, some of the members of the team did that too.
The only person I know who likes serious S & M is a straight guy.
When I was in college, I was trying to fight… no, that’s not quite the right way to put it… I was not yet at terms with my feelings toward men. I was kind of living the split life. I wasn’t a huge partier, and I didn’t date a lot of women before I gained the ability to stop torturing myself for being gay. In those years, I saw nothing that was done by gay people that wasn’t being done by my straight friends. Guys would sleep around behind their GF’s backs, some of the girls would do the same. The only difference between the straight and gay friends was that the gay friends were honest about sleeping with other people. But both groups slept with other people. So indeed, the sexual behavior is, in fact, the same.
Thing is, most of those people grew up. Most of my gay friends who did some of the same stuff also grew up. The only difference is that the gay “community”, such as it is, does promote the continuation of this adolescent, juvenile behavior. But both sides do it. Gays simply don’t have as much social pressure with-in their clique to pretend it doesn’t happen.
PS. Oh, and when I was a drama major in college…. Well, all I can say is that everybody was sleeping with everybody. I didn’t participate, but there was a game between two straight couples to see who could have sex in the most places in the theater house. Thom and Jenna won. They “christened” almost the whole joint, including the lighting booth and the directors office. They only failed in doing it on the stage because they got into a huge fight at the opportune moment, and ended up breaking up. I wasn’t completely innocent though. During my time as a theater major, my first real, personal gay experience was a Ménage à trois with fellow theater-mates, Suzy and Mark. No, it wasn’t planned. We used to hang out at Marks house and play cards. One night, while drinking and playing cards, Suz let it out that she thought Mark was hot. I was expecting to head on home, except Mark then turned to both of us and said he liked her, but also was attracted to me too! Holy crap! I was so caught up in my own world, I had no idea. I amditted that I was attracted to Mark, a crush that I assumed, just like the other crushes before, would always remain a secret. It was not me or Mark to take the path we took that night; it was Suzy’s idea to take the next step.
Mark, BTW, looked a lot like Michael J Fox… He was hot!
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 8, 2010 @ 8:26 pm - June 8, 2010
And yes, that’s is three… within a two mile radius. Are you really going to argue that there are not seven other long-term monogamous gay couples within the rest of the 47 mile radius? The numbers are definitely NOT on your side… unless of course you are a statistician or economist working for the government.
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 8, 2010 @ 8:31 pm - June 8, 2010
I wish I could explain why all the comments on this thread simply work to reinforce the gay stereotype which makes people not think gays are serious about marriage.
And it’s nice to know that all forms of sex are OK except for the choice to be celibate outside of marriage, which is in some way deficient and deranged. Apparently, there are some colors that just don’t fit on the diversity rainbow.
Comment by Ashpenaz — June 8, 2010 @ 9:24 pm - June 8, 2010
#26: “Apparently, there are some colors that just don’t fit on the diversity rainbow.”
You’re just now figuring that out?
Comment by Sean A — June 8, 2010 @ 9:58 pm - June 8, 2010
Uhm… being celibate is NOT a form of sex. By its very definition, it’s not sex at all!!!!!
And since gays can’t marry in most states, your point above is mostly moot.
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 9, 2010 @ 12:42 am - June 9, 2010
Exactly where did anyone say, or even imply for that matter, that “all forms of sex are OK except for the choice to be celibate outside of marriage, which is in some way deficient and deranged”.
That, and staying celibate until marriage is, according to all the stats out there, is definitely NOT the norm. That doesn’t mean that it’s “deficient and deranged”. It’s just not the norm.
Comment by Sonicfrog — June 9, 2010 @ 12:47 am - June 9, 2010
OT: Hey Ass, here’s something for you to start your discovery that federal regulation ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703302604575295051484827946.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h
Comment by ThatGayConservative — June 9, 2010 @ 6:17 am - June 9, 2010
26.I wish I could explain why all the comments on this thread simply work to reinforce the gay stereotype which makes people not think gays are serious about marriage.
Ashpenaz, just because virtually all of the posters here disagree with your narrow view regarding relationships, does not mean any gay stereotypes are reinforced. And we can’t help what other people think when it is pointed out that there are gay and straight people who are serious about marriage, and gay and straight people who aren’t.
I would suspect that Rush’s opinion of gay marriage is based on the obvious insight that gays don’t play by the same rules as straights. Most people assume that gays behave the way gays behave in public.
I have to agree with others that using Rush as an example was kind of silly. I’m not saying Rush is a hypocrite here, since I really don’t know what he has spouted about lifelong, sexually exclusive relationships. But he has obviously failed your relationship criteria at least three times. As a side note, if Rush never had sex outside of his marriages, then Rush and I have had the same number of sexual partners.
I feel like Bill Cosby trying to say there is a problem with single motherhood in the black community. “No there’s not!!! Every black child I know is being raised by both his parents in a functional home so stop saying that!!!”
So, because there is a high percentage of single motherhood among Black people, should Blacks also be banned from marriage as well? And your analogy to Christians vs. Muslims is interesting. Obviously there are more Muslim terrorists than Christian terrorists. But we don’t and shouldn’t deny Muslim citizens equal rights in this country.
“Stable” does not mean “sexually exclusive.” I have no respect for gays or straights who are in “stable,” “monogamous” open relationships.
And you are certainly entitled to that. I don’t believe that open relationships are a good idea either. But the point is, that there are many of us here who don’t have the same disdain that you have for persons who don’t follow your narrow view of how persons should conduct themselves sexually. And yet we have been able to form committed, monogamous (without the scare quotes) relationships. Further, some of us aren’t as religious as you are either. Go figure.
Comment by Pat — June 9, 2010 @ 8:43 am - June 9, 2010
I ran a poll about this on my blog and am finding mostly positive feedback from my fellow social conservatives. I think what Elton has done is even better than building a bridge (implies working to create an permanent construct, no-stopping, go and come back home, type of mentality … or I just don’t like the metaphor), it appears that he has tried to reach out in honest friendship. It’s in keeping with his track record.
Comment by Randy — June 9, 2010 @ 8:57 am - June 9, 2010
According to Mark Levin, Elton John had a similar cardiac experience as Rush. Apparently John called his people to find out how he was doing. Rush called his people and eventually they wound up talking and eventually they’re on each other’s e-mail list.
Some folks do grow up. Most liberals don’t.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — June 9, 2010 @ 11:11 am - June 9, 2010
Forgot to mention Levin was at the wedding.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — June 9, 2010 @ 11:12 am - June 9, 2010