Vice President Biden’s claims notwithstanding, the Democrats got what they wanted with the “stimulus” plan. And they have managed to pass other big ticket items on their wish list, including credit card, banking and healthcare reform. Yet, the Administration’s defenders who comment to our blog complain that Republican obstructionism is to blame for Obama’s failure to advance the public good:
I think any characterization of Republicans as obstructionists more interested in furthering their political chances at the expense of the public good is a correct one.
He was defending the Democrat’s dishonest attack on congressional Republicans for refusing to vote for an extension in unemployment benefits without making cuts elsewhere in the federal budget.
So, let me ask this reader (or any Administration defender) to explain just how much federal spending we need in order to get the economy moving again? And how can you blame Republicans for working at the expense of the public good when in the past 18 months, the Democrats have gotten most of the items on their wish list through Congress.
Back in 1981-82, Ronald Reagan did not succeed in enacting a many items on his agenda and yet he didn’t lash out at Democrats. Is our reader saying that if the GOP prevents the Democrats from getting 100% of their agenda through Congress, then they are to blame for any problems which ensue?
*To get the economy going.
Because capitalist corporations seek only profits, the government has to step in and make sure that workers are treated fairly in most areas:
Health Care (when employers hire part-time to avoid giving benefits)
Unemployment (for when employers choose to fire people rather than limit their own paychecks)
Safety (when employers fire those who say “I don’t think that pipe will hold” or “This accelerator feels funny”)
Investments (when Wall Street bilks people out of their savings by offering bad loans)
All the bills you complain about exist because corporations have been corrupt and greedy. The Obama administration would not have to spend so much money if businesses would self-regulate and forgo profits for the sake of supporting their workers. Simple, conservative values like trust, integrity, and compassion would work if business would simply live by those values.
Elections have consequences… and one of the consequences is that people elected to represent opposing viewpoints are sent to Washington to oppose the majority. It’s their JOB to oppose Obama.
Ash – here’s how things happen in the real world:
If you make employers pay more in wages and benefits than the job is worth, they can 1) automate, 2) offshore, 3) demand more imported labor to hold down wages, or 4) not expand and hire.
If you look around, you will find that a big chunk of the mess we’re in is due directly to government meddling. It’s no wonder that the Democrats are the biggest recipients of Wall Street cash (and that most business bigshots are Dems).
As an aside: I saw two articles yesterday that I found interesting:
1. Google being investigated by 37 states
2. Google has no debt and is sitting on $30 billion
I’m sure there’s no connection at all. None whatsoever.
How much alcohol does an alcoholic need?
Dan, great question. I’ve long said that if $1 trillion deficits are good, why not $3 trillion? If 0% interest rates are good, why not pay people to take loans? If so-called “universal health care” is good, why not universal pizza and lobster? If government regulation of the economy is good, why not full socialism?
The answer, of course, is that none of those are good. Not morally, nor practically. Not a single one.
SCR, don’t bother yourself: Ash is unconcerned with reality.
I remain grateful that there exists among us useful idiots who aren’t ashamed to give voice to their ridiculous paranoid fantasies.
One must remember that such people will be in need of serious counseling come November.
Either that, or a one way ticket to some third world economy where they might take comfort in the welcoming arms of a Hugo Chavez disciple.
Eric, some appear to have missed out on Econ 101, Business 101 and Life 101, all of which would have rightly taught that the only way in which corporations can ever hope to get profits, is to treat workers fairly in most areas.
The correct answer is half a Gagillion dollars, its not that hard.
U.S. sovereign debt has been downgraded… by its top foreign buyer, China: http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/35001/20100713/us-sovereign-debt-downgraded-by-china.htm
Thanks, President Obama! Yes We Can… Bankrupt America!
Here’s my hypothesis–and I hope this is simple enough for everyone to understand:
The Obama administration is not at fault. Obama is simply trying to fix problems which wouldn’t exist if corporations and employers weren’t so greedy. Hence, corporations and employers are at fault. If they would truly put worker dignity, wages, safety, and health above their own paychecks, the government wouldn’t have to do anything.
The way to lower taxes is to hold corporations and employers to a higher standard of human values and compassion. Simple conservative values like integrity, reputation, conscience, loyalty, honesty, if they were held by big business, would bring taxes down since Obama would then not have any problems to fix.
Was that simple enough? Should I use puppets?
Oh Ash, we understand it – We understand how dumb and wrong it is, on various points. Was that simple enough for you to understand?
No, they just chose to create a massive drag on the economy in the form of multi-trillion deficits and crushing, unnecessary regulations. And you say it’s not enough.
That depends. What is wrong with so-called “greed” is not the self-interest, but the short-sightedness or stupidity – all of which you would know in yourself. There is a certain type of business person who relies on government favors. For many of them, it’s defensive: Since government inserts itself into the economy, creating winners and losers by political action, the only way they can survive (and continue giving employment to anyone) is to play the government-interference game. For others, it is more aggressive: They make alliance with oppressive forces in government, for the purpose of being the government’s chosen winner and shutting down their competition. The problem in both cases is that they aren’t concerned nearly enough with making a profit. Government intervention makes them focus on government intervention, instead of real business. The solution in both cases is to have separation of economics and State. You, as usual, get it all completely backward and won’t understand a word I am saying; it is all quite beyond you.
No. Hence, government intervention and its supporters – such as yourself, Ash – are at fault.
And there it is, folks: Poison as food, more poison as the alleged antidote. It’s the left-liberal way. The truth is different. The truth is that if government would get the hell out of the way, and not create winners and losers politically by its interference, Ash’s “they” would have to compete on the merits of their businesses – their ability to produce a good product efficiently, including their ability to retain good workers through good treatment.
Government’s legitimate role is to enforce criminal law protecting life, liberty and property, and to provide impartial courts in which private disputes can be fairly judged. That, right there, embodies levels of compassion and human values that you (Ash) clearly can’t begin to fathom. The way to make corporations rise to that level is to reduce government, not increase it.
…are things you don’t know about, and things being driven out of America by Obama and the Democrats, as we speak.
P.S. Lap up the attention while it lasts. It won’t.
If they would truly put worker dignity, wages, safety, and health above their own paychecks, the government wouldn’t have to do anything.
Ashpenaz, have you sold everything you have and given it to the poor?
If not, why not? Don’t you want to sacrifice for the poor? Why are you so selfish and greedy? Should the government take all of your money and redistribute it, like you demand it does for those who have more than you do?
NDT, in the symbolic/moral battle between Caesar and Jesus, the government is Caesar. In your Ash quote, he implies divine powers to government, even that its action makes men virtuous, and that if only we weren’t so sinful, we wouldn’t have to impose on government so much.
I really hope that one day, the scales will drop from his eyes.
What about when Washington bilks people out of their savings and runs off with the Socialist Stupidity money so Queen Nan can run off to Spain or wherever the hell it was? When do we get legislation punishing the liberals in Washington?
What about the greedy unions that we bailed out with taxpayer money? Couldn’t let Government Motors go into bankruptcy and risk cutting off the union contributions to the DNC. I read, not too long ago, that longshoremen in CHS make $130K/ year on average. That’s rich in my book.
What about “greedy” companies that USED to have profit sharing for their employees, but cut it because of the government intervention of killing the economy and funneling money into their pork projects? Is it better to drive the “greedy” company out of business and eliminate all the jobs just so we have less “greed” out there?
And isn’t passing more and more unemployment extensions just feeding greed? Or is one greed more justified than another?
I STILL want to know how stimulating unemployment benefits the “public good”.
Unemployment exists because employers don’t want to reduce their own paychecks and hire the amount of workers they actually need. Hence, the government has to step in and fix the problem the greedy employer created. It is the employer, not the government and not the worker, who is at fault for the initial problem of not wanting to hire people.
All the things you hate–FDR, the progressive movement, unions, minimum wage, Social Security, Medicare–exist because corporations are greedy and don’t care about their workers’ health, safety, or quality of life. If businesses focused on their workers instead of profits, none of those evil things you hate would have to exist, and the government could focus on things which it does better.
If you don’t want government intervention, stop being so greedy and heartless.
“Unemployment exists because employers don’t want to reduce their own paychecks and hire the amount of workers they actually need.”
And again, Ash doesn’t understand reality.
If a business doesn’t hire the workers they need, then the business fails.
So in addition to thought police, Ash wants the committee of ‘hiring more workers than you need.’
Even Tano had enough since to shut up and stop digging, Ash.
Like a drug addict strung out on a plethora of lethal cocktails, the Democrats can never have enough money. The government is too big now with the only insatiable need for more tax money to burn. Worse, politicians abuse the tax money with their own agendas which usually does no good. The Democrats would be happy with 100% of taxed money from the people, yet this would still not be enough. The big government beast has turned feral, festering, & is completely out of control.
I missed that one earlier. The statement doesn’t even make sense. It fails Accounting 101. When Wall Street (or whoever) gives someone a loan, the recipient isn’t saving. They are borrowing. LOL 🙂
Also, Wall Street (or whoever) is doing the recipient a favor. It is giving the recipient what they want. The greedy recipient wants a house, vacation or car they cannot afford. The banker just made their dream come true. In so doing, the banker was UN-greedy; it practiced the ethics of self-sacrifice. A greedy banker would be much tighter with people, only making loans that it knew would be paid back (with interest).
Why did we have so many bankers failing to be greedy as they ought to be, practicing self-sacrifice instead? Because government mandated it. “Good” job, government.
Ash – NDT asked you:
Answer the question.
Sebastian – Agreed.
So soft tyranny by the government is the fault of eeeeeevil corporations?
When they spend their own money on employee insurance, they don’t care about employee health? When they spend their own money on first aid boxes, they don’t care about employee health? When they spend their own money on employee clinics, onsite or otherwise, they don’t care about employee health? How the hell do you arrive at that conclusion?
And how about those greedy unions, who take your money and give it to their favored candidates, whether you like it or not? One of the oldest complaints of the Proletariat has been about working to make their bosses rich. Why in the hell would one want to add a few more? When you get more money, but lose out on perqs, what’s the point?
Hmmm. So am I to understand that the internment of American citizens from Japan was the fault of eeeeeevil corporations?
And Italians and Germans, they always get overlooked.
Government is the repository of all that is good and noble, TGC. It is only our human sinfulness that forces government to stoop to our level and bother with uplifting us.
That is Ash’s underlying premise. In past ages, Christians said such things – about God, not about government. Ash elevates Caesar in the place of God, then expects others to go along with his pretense that he loves God.
And, as I’ve said before, I had a contracting job once where Ass’s beloved government intervention required that I take several security and safety courses that had absolutely nothing to do with my job. The government required that I take MSHA, MARSEC, HAZ-MAT, Confined Space Entry etc. etc. etc. even though it had zip, zero, nada to do with my position. I wanted to take forklift certification for the fun of it, but was told I couldn’t because it wasn’t related to my job. Figure that one out.
Is that the fault of eeeeevil corporations, Ass? Where’s your answers, Ass? I know you don’t work, so you have to be lurking somewhere.
Here is your government at work:
But remember, folks. Government employees watch porn *for you*. To pay for *your* sins.
(/sarc)
No, I haven’t sold everything and given it to the poor. I offer my skills for the good of society and earn a paycheck in return. I pay taxes and I expect everyone else to pay a share equal to mine. All our taxes together are used to provide those things our employers are too greedy to provide–health care, retirement, safety, education, etc. Corporations could provide all those things without government intervention, but they don’t because they only want profits. Since corporations will not, out of the goodness of their hearts, provide health, safety, etc. to their workers, the government has to step in and do it. And there’s the history of the New Deal in a nutshell.
I’m just curious if Ash is concerned about making a personal profit off of his day to day activities. Perhaps he knows of a bank where overdrawing your account isn’t a concern…. Wait….The taxpayers currently cover that one… NEVERMIND!
I offer my skills for the good of society and earn a paycheck in return.
How very selfish and greedy of you, Ashpenaz.
You should sacrifice your paycheck and provide labor for free so that the value can be used to provide “dignity, wages, safety, and health” to other people.
Why do you hate the poor, Ashpenaz? How can you be so selfish and greedy as to expect pay for your investment of time and labor, or that you should benefit from your work? Since you won’t do it out of the goodness of your heart, the government should step in and take all your money to provide “health, safety, etc.” to other people.
So let’s summarize, Ashpenaz:
1) You demand that other people sacrifice their pay
2) You demand that other people not profit from their labors
3) You refuse to sacrifice YOUR pay
4) You refuse to not profit from YOUR labors
And what makes this beautifully ironic: you’re squealing like a stuck pig about how unfair it is that someone else has taken the full-time job that you think you deserve and given it to someone else more worthy than you are.
You should be glorying in that fact, Ashpenaz. After all, you demand that other people sacrifice their jobs for yours; why shouldn’t you take a taste of your own medicine?
Very well then. What share do you effectively pay? I never quite followed what you do but seem to remember something about a Starbucks. I would be delighted to lower my taxes to your level. That would be very fair indeed, a huge tax cut that would set America’s economy free and greatly boost employment levels. If, that is, we cut spending to match.
That is so wrong, so demented that one hardly knows where to start. You seriously think that government provides anything that doesn’t come from corporations first – and consumers, and income-earners? Government doesn’t produce goods, Ash. People do. Government only takes them. As for services and technologies, government tries to produce those but does it very badly, everywhere outside the military context. You seriously want a militarized society? Remember, even the military does not do anything well except fighting and killing: it gave us the expressions “SNAFU” and “FUBAR”. You seriously think ObamaCare is ever going to help you, Ash? That you aren’t going to just die on a waiting list, like people do in Britain and Canada, when the time comes? Oh my lord, how dumb.
P.S. To be clear: I would be delighted to lower my *share* of taxes to your level. I’d gladly bet that I pay quite a larger *share* in percentage terms, than you do. Which, by your own account, is unfair. I agree.
What makes it any of YOUR damn business what they provide or don’t provide? Further, can you name ONE business that exists solely to provide jobs, retirement, safety, education etc.? Just one.
And why the hell isn’t YOUR retirement and YOUR healthcare YOUR responsibility?
And why the hell do you lack the testicular fortitude to answer any of my questions? Did you get sand in your vag?
I suppose it’s pointless to ask folks like Ash… but here goes:
What do these bleeding hearts think about the fact that most government munificence is directed back at the government?
These selfless public servants (especially at the federal level) make a lot more money than similarly employed people in the private sector. I read that the City Manager in Bell, CA (pop 38,000 mostly poor, poor pitiful poor) gets paid $770,000/year. I read of conductors and bus drivers making something north of $200K/year. I see stories of government spending more on signage for stimulus projects than a lot of people spend on buying houses.
State and local governments are broke because politicians traded lavish pensions and early retirement on workers in order to buy votes.
All the money government spends featherbedding comes from somewhere, Ash… it comes from the private sector – taken by the government at the point of a gun. (Don’t think so? Try not paying.)
Another question: if “greed” means wanting to keep more of my own earnings… what do we call wanting to keep more of someone else’s earnings?
Capitalism is certainly not perfect and there are certainly rapacious people in business… but, most of the time, they are accountable to the market and don’t have the monopoly on deadly force that the government has.
Also Ash, in addition to probably paying a greater percentage or *share* of my income in taxes than you, I’d take a bet that I also pay a greater share than you do, in gifts to non-profits. I wouldn’t be willing to let you see my info, but I’d be willing to let a trusted third party see it. You really, really should not have tried to go down this road. 🙂
SCR, that is the real story: Greedy government. It is sucking the very life out of our nation.
#30 Which came first the chicken or the egg.
If American taxes weren’t so high, both corporate and individual, it wouldn’t be necessary for the govt to do any of it!!
But then what the hell would Obama and most Democrats do for a living? They survive on stealing from one segment of the country, giving it to the other.
Even Ms Sherroid herself said, “I liked the govenment job, they don’t fire people. ” Unproductive leeches. Today Obama admitted, the govt has $100 BILLION a year in monies that flow out in error. He wants to have an audit! And try to save HALF of it by 2012!!!
The waste is un believeable. $100 billion a year….how much is that per household? And the socialist Dems don’t know why regular Americans are upset?
I’ll be honest. In my last job I seriously considered joining the IBEW. Those cats only worked, at the most, two hours out of the day. The rest of the time they were wandering around visiting and on smoke breaks. One guy even managed to go downtown to do some shopping during his lunch, which lasted the better part of the afternoon.
TGC: If society is dumb enough to pay IBEW more than the amount and type work they do is worth, that is society’s problem. You need to eat, so take the work if you can get it. Just don’t expect it to last forever. Save up, use your mind, have a plan, etc.
I don’t really keep up with Ashhole’s bizarre rants, but did he not previously claim to be on disability or unemployed or something?
Basically, the Democrats want the United States of America to become the next Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, or China; they want absolute control at any cost.
Let me see if I can break it down for those of you in the “Corporations are greedy, employers are greedy” crowd…
Employers and corporations are greedy because stockholders are greedy…stockholders are greedy because pension funds are greedy…pension funds are greedy because unions and workers are greedy…
Does that come around full circle enough for you?? or do I need to dumb it down for you any further???
Oh yeah, and all of the above are greedy because the I.R.S. is greedy too!!!
Ash reveals a lot about the progressive mind set.
1. Desiring to keep as much of the money as possible that you’ve earned through hard work, productivity, sacrifice, and risk-taking — GREEDY.
2. Demanding that the money other people have earned though hard work (etc) confiscated by the Government to pay for your health care and other desires — NOT GREEDY.
Is that pretty much it?
V – Yes. Of course, Ash still tries to dress up his greed as Catholicism, which most progressives skip nowadays, wishing no longer to grant any prestige to Christianity.
The Roman Catholic Church and the Democratic Party increasingly mirror each other. Both are dogmatic, both are led by a self-selected and out of touch elite, both have some history sheltering paedophiles, and both are advocates of redistributing the fruits of other people’s labors while being emphatically resistant to redistributing their own vast assets.