While doing cardio a few moments ago, caught some of CNN coverage (on Rich Sanchez’s show) of the protests both supporting and opposing construction of the “Ground Zero mosque” and saw a rainbow flag attached to banner of one of protesters.
Did anyone see (or, does anyone know) whether that flag was attached to the banner of a supporter or opponent of the mosque? And is anyone aware of any gay group help organize a protest on either side?
CNN seemed hellbent on showing that that opponents were anti-Muslim zealots and were bound and determined to present the project’s leader Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf as a moderate. Is anyone aware of CNN reporting some of Imam Rauf’s, shall we say, more, um, well, radical statements?
Thanks, have to rush off to attend a Log Cabin/LA meeting featuring the new head of Log Cabin national so may not have time to get to this for a while.
Well if history has shown me anything the odd are it was being flown by a far leftist.
http://www.zombietime.com/global_day_of_action_march_18_2006/IMG_5789.JPG
http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/IMG_2206.JPG
But if I learn more I will mention it.
I know you say you’re not an anti-Muslim zealot, but you are, if I’m not correct, opposing the mosque because a Muslim presence near Ground Zero is, in your opinion, offensive. How can that be construed in any other way than anti-Muslim? You might not be a zealot, though. You might be moderately anti-Muslim.
Would you support an Episcopal church near Ground Zero? A McDonalds? A gay bar? A coat factory? If none of these seem offensive, and a mosque does, then it seems that you can only be seen as anti-Muslim, since Muslim is the factor which stands out.
If you support free speech even when it seems offensive, then it seems logical to support religious freedom even when it seems offensive. Do you support athiest screeds set up next to Christmas creches? Do you support White Power offices next to synagogues? Do you support Fred Phelps at gay Marine funerals? These may be unfortunate and even offensive, but I don’t see how we as Americans can set “religious zones” and not go against the Constitution so many great Americans have died for.
It doesn’t take a poll to know that Islamophobia is rampant. And the latest proof of that is the recent hysteria over the proposed Islamic Cultural Center in lower Manhattan.
First of all, the Center has been wrongly described as a mosque. While it would include a prayer space, it would primarily look just like a YMCA, with a fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, culinary school, and food court. What’s so threatening about that?
Furthermore, while it has been described as the “Ground Zero Mosque”, it sits two large city blocks from the site of the former World Trade Center. Within those two blocks between the controversial “mosque” site and Ground Zero sit some strip clubs, fast-food restaurants, check-cashing agencies, and bars. Are those businesses more worthy of their location near that hallowed ground than a gym and a cooking school?
Those questions, of course, are rhetorical ones. But, for al-Qaeda, it all validates their perception that the so-called “war on terror” really is a war on Islam. It validates their perception that this really is a crusade. And that validates their jihad.
And so it endangers us more than ever.
Nice going, bigots.
Nice job playing moral equivalence, asshole. How many of those businesses you mentioned declared war on the US and slaughtered thousands in one day in the name of Allah?
#3: “And so it endangers us more than ever.”
“Us”? Steve, what do you mean “us”? You’re not in any danger. Everyone knows that the useful idiots are killed last. You don’t have anything to worry about for months and months. So, relax you big dumb Fu*k-wad.
It appears from the videos that I saw that the rainbow flag was on the side of the pro-mosque people. And they said gay conservatives are self hating.
Which will be open to everyone, including women, right?
Would you support an Episcopal church near Ground Zero? A McDonalds? A gay bar? A coat factory? If none of these seem offensive, and a mosque does, then it seems that you can only be seen as anti-Muslim, since Muslim is the factor which stands out.
Within those two blocks between the controversial “mosque” site and Ground Zero sit some strip clubs, fast-food restaurants, check-cashing agencies, and bars.
Actually, Ashpenaz and steve, why don’t you show us something?
Show us where the 9/11 terrorists invoked and sang in accordance with the Episcopal liturgy.
Give us the air traffic control statements where you hear the terrorists shouting “You deserve a break today!” as they flew into the towers.
Find us the operational plans that talk about leveling the World Trade Centers as necessary for gay pride or to purchase inexpensive clothing.
Show us the videos in which the people who flew the planes into the towers extolled the fact that you can get a payday advance loan at any time.
On the other hand, there are mountains of evidence showing that the terrorists did act in the name of and on behalf of Islam, and that the builders of this mosque celebrate the fact that said terrorists did so.
And also, steve, if you are drawing the magic line around “Ground Zero”, please be consistent and state that, since nothing more than a few feet outside the World Trade Center site now qualifies as “Ground Zero”, that anyone who was outside that radius on 9/11 no longer qualifies for any victim funding or treatment or whatever else.
Finally, please apply things evenly, and state that Christian megachurches that run into community opposition are clear signs of anti-Christian bigotry, because if they have restaurants, food courts, and whatnot, they don’t qualify as churches.
So let’s see, we’ve shot you down already on multiple counts, and this is WITHOUT pointing out the fact that you and your fellow gay leftists are shitting yourself and attacking US Christians over what Christians are allegedly doing in Uganda, but demanding that Muslims in the United States hold no accountability whatsoever for what their brethren are doing in Iran and among the Taliban.
All the Leftist panties currently in a bunch about “Islamophobia” couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the fact that under The One, in fact two years into his term, we still have ten percent unemployment, could it?
I smell a distraction.
When there are Multiple Minyans in mecca, then park51 can build near Ground Zero.
There are already 2 mosques in Downtown NYC, they don’t need a third. There are only TWO branches of islam.
When Greg Gutfeld said he wanted to open a gay bar next to the mosque, Mayor Bloomberg said that would be insensitive because Muslims believe homosexuality is a sin. Now, would it not be insensitive to build an exclusive mosque to muslims where, in the name of Allah, 3,000 innocent people were murdered? It is not about bigotry or being anti-muslim, it is about sensitivity, decency, and respect. The fact that they REFUSE to move it from the desired location shows, to me, that this is not about dialogue, but about provocation. Those that argue this is about religious freedom, bigotry, and racism are not listening at all to what we have been saying. Move the mosque, community center, whatever, away from Ground Zero and everything is fine. Continue to demand it be built next to the towers and it no longer is a dialogue, but an assertion of power.
If you want an honest answer, Ashpenaz, no, I am not anti-muslim at all, but I am hesitant until I know if the Islam they worship is Sharia compliant. If it is Sharia compliant, then they, like my step-grandfather, believe that I should be executed by hanging or stoning for being gay. Forgive me for not embracing this ideology with open arms.
Holly,
Ash doesn’t want an honest answer. Neither does Steve.
They’ll ignore hatred from the mosque supporters (and their attempt to censor others) statements by the Iman that fly in the face of reality.
As to “Sharia compliant” Don’t take my words for it… take theirs.
It’s been described as a mosque by the people who are building it. They were calling it the Ground Zero mosque up until the point the controversy erupted, that’s when they changed the name to Park51.
Steve is a really, really stupid troll.
And now we have the Imam behind the project caught on tape saying, ‘The United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al-Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims.’ Which doesn’t sound very ‘moderate’ to me.
He also used the n-word in the exact same illustrative context as Dr. Laura did; curiously, the left does not seem as bothered by this.
But Ash and Steve are dug into their knee-jerk positions and, evidence be damned, they’re sticking to them. Because it’s not about whether or not a mosque (Yes, stevie, there is a mosque) at Ground Zero. It’s about taking the opposite of the conservative position so you can accuse the opposite side of bigotry.
Even if it means you side with the folks who stone your kind to death (without a peep from lefty human rights organizations, BTW).
The_Livewire,
Sadly, I am well aware of their arguments and I wish I could believe in the moderate muslim, like Raheel Raza, but the radicals make it nearly impossible, especially while they shout “Racism, Racism,” and the majority remains silent in complicity or in fear. I do not hate them, I do no dislike them; I used to be rather melancholy to the whole thing, but now they are making it nearly impossible to listen, let alone respect their argument.
As Bret Stephens said: “Is it bigotry to oppose bigots?“
CNN puffed up the Coffee Party & One Nation; therefore, of course, they will stand by Islamic terrorists following Obama’s lead like a sick puppy. I can see why CNN continues to shed viewers. The audience does not like being called racist bigots.
BTW, it was on the “Pro-Mosque” side of the argument that a gay pride flag was seen http://bigpeace.com/stzu/2010/08/23/anti-semitic-incident-at-ground-zero-mosque-counter-protest/
“First of all, the Center has been wrongly described as a mosque. While it would include a prayer space, it would primarily look just like a YMCA, with a fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, culinary school, and food court.”
1. I have been to a number of YMCA’s in Dallas and I have never seen one to have a “prayer space” or to hold services on Sunday. This center may “look” like a YMCA, as does any health club, but it certainly is not a YMCA.
2. Those on the Left who support this mosque, continue to claim that there is no mosque only a prayer space. Do any of you look at the website for Park51? In the builders’ own words, Park51 will include:
•a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community.
Why is it that the supporters on the Left continue to deny the mosque when in reality a mosque is planned?
No American Muslims were involved in 9/11. This is a mosque or prayer space for American Muslims, some of who died in the Towers, many of whom died for their country in other conflicts. Their blood for our country has earned them the right to express their religion wherever they wish.
Ashpenaz,
So I ask, how is an exclusive prayer space for Muslims a community building excercise? The intitial reasoning for the mosque was that it would bring the community together; how does an exclusive establishment (as you described it) translate into an inclusive project for the greater community?
Just as curious as to why the critics of the opponents of the mosque refuse to address Rauf’s radical statements.
Not to mention their religious tolerance.
Ash, stop with the straw men, you’re getting hay fever.
Because acknowledging Rauf’s radical statements would be painfully close to admitting that we were right and they were wrong.
You guys are hilarious. Liberals didn’t bring this up as an issue, conservatives did! FOX News, the propoganda arm of the GOP, discusses this non-story 24/7 to rile up their right-wing base. The Democrats WANT an economic recovery but YOUR party voted against the stimulus which SAVED us from a DEPRESSION! The Republicans want Obama to fail so they can regain power in November.
They’re so TRANSPARENT it’s laughable!
Can we medicate Steve? Or maybe send him to those tolerant people in Iran? After all they must be tolerant, the GZM Iman supports them.
The Stimulus failed. Say it slowly with me steve. The. Stimulus. Failed.
Thowing more money at it won’t work. No matter how much you pretend otherwise.
I am guessing he’s already medicated. Whether it’s Thorazine or Crystal Meth, I can’t say. But whatever drug fries enough brain cells to make you think a trillion dollars in deficit spending while 3,000,000 private sector jobs are destroyed is a brilliant economic policy should probably be kept away from the tasty bottles under the sink, IYKWIMAITTYD.
And of course liberals didn’t bring up the Mosque issue. They don’t think it’s a big deal for a radical Imam to do a touchdown dance on the graves of 3,000 Americans. To paraphrase Code Pink founder and Obama fundraiser Jodie Evans, they were stupid and deserved to die.
Correction, what I meant to say is…
But someone who takes whatever drug fries enough brain cells to make you think a trillion dollars in deficit spending while 3,000,000 private sector jobs are destroyed is a brilliant economic policy should probably be kept away from the tasty bottles under the sink, IYKWIMAITTYD.
Housing sales plummet in July to record lows. Another triumph of the Obama Stimulus!
It’s not a Mosque
Damn. Anyways, my points are still valid.
And as Mark Steyn said:
V the K, wait, please help me with IYKWIMAITTYD…if you know what I mean…and then what? Am I being completely dense? I just want to be one of the Kool Kids–I only recently figured out NTTAWWT! Please make me cool and tell me all the hip (and lengthy!) acronyms!
If You Know What I Mean And I Think That You Do.
Took me a few minutes.
#30: “It’s not a mosque.”
The fu*k it isn’t, Alpaca. Or, maybe I’m wrong–I’m sure Muslims go to the mat and the Mayor of New York feels the need to make insipid speeches in front of the Statue of Liberty everytime there’s a dispute over the installation of a basketball court in Manhattan.
#34: Thank you, The_Livewire!
#30 Alpaca – Now can you say “It’s not a Mosque” in an Austrian accent with a baritone voice?
Sorry bad Kindergarten cop reference.
How can progressives simultaneously argue that it isn’t a mosque, but it has to be built because the Constitution guarantees Freedom of Religion?
Seems sorta… contradictory… there?
(IYKWIMAITTYD: If You Know What I Mean And I Think That You Do.)
#38: “How can progressives simultaneously argue that it isn’t a mosque, but that it must be built because the Constitution guarantees Freedom of Religion?”
V the K, just shut up and kiss me, you sweet, sweet genius, you.
If, as those wacky self-contradictory progressives say, it’s not a mosque, then why do conservatives have a problem with it?
Because Ash, it is a mosque being built by a radical cleric with ties to terrorists, who supports Hamas and Iran, and says that the US was responsible for 9/11. Let us also not forget his claims of The US being worse than AQ.
Ash likes to quote (or twist) scripture when it suits his purposes. He also loves to (mis)quote Catholic doctrine, while being ignorant of his own (professed) church’s founder. Perhaps while trying to make silly strawmen arguments he might look to the history of the Church in Cordoba which the mosque is named after.
It’s kind of funny how progs are totally OK with a radical imam turning a building that was hit on 9-11-2001 into a Victory Mosque, but they get their panties twisted in knots over a proposal to build a new skyscraper several blocks from the Empire State Building, because to defile such an iconic structure would desecrate the NYC skyline, or something.
More bigots for Ash’s strawmen
This is a mosque or prayer space for:
1. American Muslims,
2. some of who (sic) died in the Towers,
3. many of whom died for their country in other conflicts.
So, I wonder:
1. Why the exclusive designation of American Muslims?
2. Why do American Muslims who died in the Towers need a prayer space? Are they not already doing hereafter duty somewhere?
3. See #2 above.
Who died and made Ashpenaz the great Ground Zero Mosque arbitrator and spokesman?