Could an older friend have prevented Tyler Clementi’s Suicide?
The Tyler Clementi story has weighed on me much since I first read the entire details about this young man’s unfortunate. And not just because of the sadness of the tale, but also because it, to a small degree, parallels a conversation I had with a young gay man at my alma mater, now a senior.
Last weekend, when on campus visiting as part of my obligations as a member of the executive committee of our Society of Alumni, I chanced upon that student. I had first met him three years ago at a “Send-off” party the LA Alumni Association organized for area undergraduates, in particular, the incoming freshman class.
I sensed that he was gay and seeing myself in him and recalling my own difficult freshman year, sought to reach out to him as best I could. I recalled e-mailing him and offering words of encouragement and support, letting him know that alumni were there to support him. But, I didn’t tell him I was gay. Because I believe each individual must come to terms with his sexuality on his own timetable and in the way appropriate to him, I didn’t want to force the matter, put any undo pressure on him.
Well, this weekend, when I ran into him in Williamstown, I did come out to him, having read in an e-mail on the college’s gay and lesbian alumni listserv that he had come out. He was surprised to learn I was gay — and wished I had said as much in that 2007 e-mail.
And now, having learned that his freshman year was also difficult, I realize that perhaps I erred and should have come out. Then, perhaps, he might have been better able to turn to me, an older gay man who was concerned about his well-being. Having that support might have made his first year away from home far less difficult than it was.
For if Tyler Clementi had had such a friend, he might be alive today.
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Right and in your previous post you defend the perpetrators.
“These two may not have intended to hurt the young man, merely sought to share in the sport of mockery”
Wrong, what they did was evil and intentionally malicious.
And rather than call for prison time, you give these two goons a slap on the wrist because you dare not offend your right-wing base.
Comment by David — October 1, 2010 @ 7:18 pm - October 1, 2010
Um, David, you keep misrepresenting me. I have called for prison time. Read my posts before chiming in with your bile. Your comment indicates that you’re not here to engage our ideas, but to attack us. Wonder why that is.
I did not defend the perpetrators. You are filled with a lot of hate, David, a lot of hate.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 1, 2010 @ 7:23 pm - October 1, 2010
Dear B. Daniel,
I blogged about this incident as well, though I must admit, it did not affect me as much it seems to have affected you:
http://colorfulconservative.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-outing-gays-causes-suicide.html
I feel your struggle with the question of self-disclosure. I don’t think that what this young man needed was an older gay man to help him with his sexuality. He needed a healthier relationship to people around him; he needed friends who could defend him; he needed others who could stand by him –regardless of what the issue was — when he got heckled by bullies.
I have also blogged about my rejection of the standard Dan Savage response to bullying, which is to emphasize “coming out” and more openness and more identity politics:
http://colorfulconservative.blogspot.com/2010/09/time-mag-why-not-exploit-childhood.html
If anything it is probably the reverse of what Dan Savage recommends. Because the gay rights movement believes certain things without questioning them — that we can’t choose our identity, that we’re born with it, and that it’s best to be open rather than “lie” — those who fight for gay rights have popularized the act of outing others, by rationalizing it as a way of helping people accept themselves. The truth is that many people aren’t strictly gay (I’m not) or don’t want to identify that way, and too often gay rights discourse has gotten everyone to believe that these people are lying to themselves or liars period.
As a result, pranksters have fed off of a culture of intrusiveness and accusation, much of which used to be the fault of homophobes, but now is largely the result of a gay movement too focused on self-disclosure.
My prayers go out to this young man’s family, but I think it would be the wrong response to emphasize more communication with young people about gay identity. They have to decide on their own. We should be there to respond to those who come out and shouldn’t get hung up on whatever antigay things they said while they were in the closet. Respect people’s freedoms.
Comment by Coco — October 1, 2010 @ 7:39 pm - October 1, 2010
Coco, you get at my dilemma. I do believe people should decide on their own — at their own pace. It’s why I didn’t come out to the young man I mentioned above.
But, yet, it seems he wishes he had an older gay person to whom he could turn.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 1, 2010 @ 7:42 pm - October 1, 2010
I have been struggling with Tyler’s death and also with the deaths of the two very young gay teens…one in Tehachapi CA and one in Texas who also have died from suicides in the past week.
I will be writing about it soon, but my thought is…this is not just happening to gays….there are other cases of bullying which involve other people, too.
To me, this is about our failure to raise our children properly with consequences and with decency and kindness. There is a level of cruelty that is being tolerated and encouraged that is dangerous to our society. Having two girls in college now, I can say that I was appalled as I raised them at the lack of discipline and consequence that other parents allowed.
To me, these incidents are about betrayal. Utter betrayal. What can be worse to young people than to find out that your friends are not your friends? Children, and Tyler was a child of only 18, do not have the life experiences and accomplishments to bolster them through these events.
Look at what has been done with the videos of Christine O’Donnell from her younger years. They are being used against her 20 years later. Tyler knew his videos would dog him forever. There is no recovery from that invasion of privacy.
There needs to be more emphasis nationwide on godliness, kindness, morality and ethics with regard to EVERYONE. The anonymity of the internet is cushioning the repercussions to the perpetrators. We must give our children a SOUL as they grow up. Statism, child care, teacher unions with agendas which pit child against parent—all work against this and are hurting our society.
I pray for these children and hope they have peace where they are. The betrayals they suffered are not necessarily anything we could “make better” for them. What we must resolve to do is raise our children better.
Tyler’s roommate and the evil girlfriend who did this should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. As a mother, I can say they are not “mistaken” kids, or doing a prank. There is nothing excusable here. They are unspeakably evil for what they did. Their parents did a terrible job raising them. No excuses, no leniency.
Comment by Jane Jamison — October 1, 2010 @ 8:26 pm - October 1, 2010
Dan,
You know how much I appreciate you interaction with a certain young man when he came out. As a parent I must state here that more than an older mentor – Tyler needed his parents support.
I have noticed with Gay Inc, they don’t like parents, maybe because they have issues of their own. In helping a friend find a healthy social setting for 14 year old son – it was obvious that Gay Inc wanted to tear him away from his extremely supportive parents.
My heart goes out to Tylers’ parents, they probably only found out his being gay once he was dead. Had he been able to come out to them when he felt comfortable, he would have turned to them first and foremost for support.
But his roommate denied him that right, he stole his privacy, he invaded his core – and in his hopelessness he killed himself.
I have no doubt that his parents are beyond devastated that they couldn’t do the primal job of a parent – protect their child.
Our society has been tearing down the family structure for generations now, this is their goal. Of course they’d rather see a counselor, an older ‘educator’ step in. The last people they want helping young people in need is their parents.
It wasn’t only the privacy issue these creeps don’t get, it’s the damage they have done to a whole family – one who was never given the chance to deal with these issues privately.
Comment by Leah — October 1, 2010 @ 9:34 pm - October 1, 2010
Coco, just read your post. You’re onto something here:
We have to deal with this at our pace; it’s why I was wary of coming out to the young man mentioned above.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 1, 2010 @ 9:51 pm - October 1, 2010
Cynic thing here. Kids are always cruel and will always pick on each other whether it be weight, colour, or orientation. I don;t think we can ever breed it out of our kids.
Comment by The_Livewire — October 1, 2010 @ 9:59 pm - October 1, 2010
David, your hate has blinded you.
1. Dan HAS called for prison time, and
2. let’s see where you have condemned the equally reckless, thuggish, unjustifiable — and much more pre-meditated outings SUPPORTED by Dan Savage and many on the gay left?
This sort of outing is a horrific invasion of privacy, and violation of fundamental civil rights UNLESS the person disagrees with your agenda — then all bets are off?
That seems to be the position of the repugnant gay left.
Comment by American Elephant — October 1, 2010 @ 10:37 pm - October 1, 2010
Dan I appreciate your posts on this matter. For the most part, I’m numb. I’m angry. I’m horribly sad. I want vengeance and no, I did not know him; yet, he could have been me at any point in my post-marriage, gay-exploration life. We speak as though it is only his being 18 or his having a gay sexual encounter or him not having a supportive (blank) that defines this tragedy.
He was phenomenally betrayed by a ‘friend’ or roommate at the least, I suppose. This level of betrayal could come to any of us, from any corner. We only hope that our decisions as to friends and what part we allow them to play in our lives, or what information they have about us, have been the correct ones.
I will have to lean much more toward this being base deficiencies in the way those two perpetrators were raised and secondly, the vulgarity of social failings regarding boundaries and respect and what the hell ever happened to not doing shit you didn’t want done to you?
When I was 14 yo, I had my first sexual encounter with a girl my own age (a hj), but by the time I was done with the tale, I had fathered an entire baseball team by her. My parents ‘heard it through the grapevine’ and my father took me to the stable and asked me point blank if it were true. I said mostly no. He explained to me the full value of reputation and reminded me about private matters vs. public. He performed further corrective actions on me at that barn that day. That was 32 years, 16 days ago; to this day I’ve not said an untrue, disreputable thing about another human being and I cannot imagine making public another’s private things. It has never dawned on me to do that.
Comment by rodney — October 1, 2010 @ 10:40 pm - October 1, 2010
And, Dan, you’re a prince among men (really.)
Most of the ‘mentors’ (some self-proclaimed) I’ve noticed or heard try to insert themselves into a young man’s life as such…
were just that: trying to insert themselves.
But, then again, Tallahassee is the Armpit of Florida.
Comment by rodney — October 1, 2010 @ 10:44 pm - October 1, 2010
Dan, I told Bruce, but in case y’all haven’t talked, I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your words on this issue.
As I said in a post earlier on TWO, we may be so ideologically different that it’s comical, but on this there can only be shared sorrow and a commitment to strive to be wise and compassionate enough to, as adults, work to change things in ways large and small to protect our kids from situations where they find themselves in such despair that they see no other choice but to take their own lives. It’s obviously a many pronged problem, but one of the things I appreciate right now is that so many of us gays who have a platform of any sort are taking the opportunity to open up and share some of what it really can be like. It’s certainly brought up a lot of past memories for me, and I can see that it’s done the same for you.
Keep on talkin’.
Comment by Evan Hurst — October 1, 2010 @ 10:55 pm - October 1, 2010
I don’t know if I’d worry about whether or not you should have disclosed your sexual orientation to the young Williams student earlier. If you had done so in a very informal, off-the-cuff manner, it might have been helpful for him to keep in mind the diversity of gay character and experience, but if you had made any sort of an issue about it, he might have wondered what you were getting at, and that might have made him more resistant to having a mentor of that sort.
I say that as I think back on various people who tried in one way or another reaching out to me when I was younger. Maybe I’m an odd case, as I didn’t even quietly acknowledge my attraction to men until I was well into my twenties, and I wouldn’t permit myself to write it down or discuss it with anyone until I was in my thirties. (I didn’t have my first gay relationship until my late 30s.) Although I knew numerous gays and lesbians in college and graduate school, the first one who came out to me in the context of trying to “help” me was someone in graduate school, who told me his story and thought it might be helpful, but I wondered what his intent was, and resisted discussing the matter with him any more at that time (though I did discuss it with him years later). I responded much the same way to someone else whose intent was certainly more murky, and I think I would have responded the same way, as well, to other people who were less clear about what they were trying to communicate.
I think Coco’s closing point is a particularly important one: “I think it would be the wrong response to emphasize more communication with young people about gay identity. They have to decide on their own. We should be there to respond to those who come out and shouldn’t get hung up on whatever antigay things they said while they were in the closet. Respect people’s freedoms.”
Comment by Kurt — October 1, 2010 @ 11:49 pm - October 1, 2010
Kurt, well said, in your first ¶, you get at my dilemma.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 2, 2010 @ 1:12 am - October 2, 2010
So, I started reading with the thought you were right not to disclose. I agree we need to allow each individual to come to terms with who they are in their time. But as I read through the comments, I came to realize that we also need to create an environment where people can find an outlet to speak with someone. This does not mean one needs to disclose anything about themselves. It means one is there to listen to the child and offer counsel. At the appropriate time, the adult can share their personal story, but the adult must keep in mind that it is about providing a safe space for the child. Young people have always bullied/mocked those that they felt were different. Problem is the consequences have risen. It is important for the adults to provide a safe haven.
Comment by Ralph — October 2, 2010 @ 2:01 am - October 2, 2010
That after some of the downright shitty-assed things that you’ve written?
Comment by ThatGayConservative — October 2, 2010 @ 2:21 am - October 2, 2010
Do I understand, correctly, that you can’t fight terrorism, but you CAN fight bullying? Perhaps if we called it the Global War on Bullying, the liberals would have rallied in support.
Bush just didn’t use “progressive” enough language. “If you’re not with us, could you at least pick up some Einstein bagels and coffee?“
Comment by ThatGayConservative — October 2, 2010 @ 5:31 am - October 2, 2010
These teens do not have to be gay to commit suicide. I have 3 sons (none of them are gay), and at the time that they were still teens several of the young people that they knew committed suicide.
This happened more than 10 years ago, when we had moved from Canberra to Sydney. Within that first year 3 people that attended school with them had committed suicide. Whilst in Sydney we heard of one boy who had received a text message… then he committed suicide.
When I returned to Canberra from Sydney, within the first year of my return, I heard of yet another teen who had committed suicide… no real reason given.
This young man’s case is different from their cases. It was preventable to a certain extent. It seems that he had asked to be moved to another dorm room but his request was denied. It seemed that there was a conflict.
Sometimes there are issues of abuse involved. It can get so bad that a teenager ill-equipped to deal with it all just wants to give up. Tyler seems to have been one person who was already in despair when this happened to him.
I feel sad for Tyler and his parents.
Comment by StraightAussie — October 2, 2010 @ 6:33 am - October 2, 2010
A strong older role model or confidant is a good thing Straight or Gay.
I had a young neighbor and often times he would sit on my floor and tell me all his problems while I sat at my desk and listened. My brother and I would sit him down on the low retaining wall on front of the house and listen to him vent some times for an hour.
His family kept the poor kid doped up on meds to the point he felt like he really was losing his mind and he came to me when it became to much.
Today he is a relatively normal young man (I don’t approve of his pot smoking however and he knows it). He is smart and happy and works really hard. Unfortunately he does not come to me for his problems as much anymore… Fortunately it’s because he knows how to handle those problems properly now.
Some people just need an open door to get them through the rough parts of life.
Comment by Stone K — October 2, 2010 @ 9:23 am - October 2, 2010
I wonder whether working to make victims more resilient might be a more effective strategy than the largely futile efforts to change the behaviors of bullies.
Comment by V the K — October 2, 2010 @ 9:25 am - October 2, 2010
To underline that… Suicide is a decision. And a poor one. I made a decision early in life that it was off the table for me. Have my problems been less than other people’s? Has my life been easier? No, of course not. I just made a firm decision, early on, that short of extreme ill health / extreme physical infirmity alone, I would much rather suffer and learn to be happy in the face of my suffering (it can be done), than make that other, bad decision. If you have your physical health, you have a very great deal in your favor. And keeping your physical health is partly luck, but partly also a decision – something you choose.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 2, 2010 @ 9:58 am - October 2, 2010
In the olden days, that environment was called “family” if you were related by blood close than second cousins… “friendship” if you were not. And to paraphrase Woody Allen, in being a successful family member or friend, “Eighty percent of success is [in just] showing up.”
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 2, 2010 @ 10:06 am - October 2, 2010
P.S. I’ve also made decisions to overcome fears, to work at knowing things that could help me, to show up for work that would benefit other people, to work hard at supporting myself, to not be corrupt, to under-consume i.e. save up, etc. I’m saying: None of those things are automatic. Like the basic decision to live, they are all things which a person chooses.
Where I feel bad for Tyler, is that in area where he was having emotional difficulties, his privacy was invaded so aggressively. And for any other invasions or severe deprivations that he might have suffered earlier as a child, that we don’t know about.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 2, 2010 @ 10:36 am - October 2, 2010
20.I wonder whether working to make victims more resilient might be a more effective strategy than the largely futile efforts to change the behaviors of bullies.
Maybe. I propose trying this strategy on the bullies first. Find ways to torment them, while others offer them coping skills.
Comment by Pat — October 2, 2010 @ 12:01 pm - October 2, 2010
there will always be bullies and there will always be targets of those bullies. the current thinking is to encourage others to be supportive of those who are targeted (become a friend/ally) and to help stand next to the targets of the bullies.
Comment by rusty — October 2, 2010 @ 12:39 pm - October 2, 2010
Rusty, I agree. There will always be any type of criminal behavior, and any way you can teach coping and resilient skills, as well as providing support is always a good thing. I just don’t get why bullying seems to continue to go unchecked. We’ve seen the results of what happens, and sometimes it’s not just suicide.
Comment by Pat — October 2, 2010 @ 12:55 pm - October 2, 2010
To wrap up what I was saying – Asking “Could an older friend have prevented Tyler Clementi’s Suicide?” is like asking, could an older friend have prevented so-and-so’s bad decision in marrying that bad guy? Her investing mistakes? Her choice to run off to Bali? Etc. The answer is: Probably not… but maybe. Can any of us ever really talk somebody else out of making a terrible mistake? Well, occasionally. And if we are the person’s friend, it is our part to try.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 2, 2010 @ 1:24 pm - October 2, 2010
Because it’s part of growing up and learning that you can’t always have your way and that some people are assholes. You just can’t shield kids from everything nor, do I think, anybody should try to. Not to mention that bullying can be subjective. You just can’t outlaw or ban everything that everyone finds uncomfortable.
If a complaint is made, yes by all means deal with it. But to try and stop it completely is a fool’s errand.
Comment by ThatGayConservative — October 2, 2010 @ 2:42 pm - October 2, 2010
You can go here: http://doubleplusundead.mee.nu/ read this article “The wrong lesson” and get a real good idea of the root cause of this tragedy. A complete lack of care or concern for another individual. If I were to hazard a guess those 2 jerks were raised in a household devoid of any moral/ethical/religious teaching. Now they have ruined, as a minimum, 3 lives, 1 dead and 2 with a stigma to carry for life.
Comment by OldNuc — October 2, 2010 @ 4:32 pm - October 2, 2010
As far as bullies go, you have to learn to deal with them yourself. By the time I was 16 years old, I was already a really dark guy in that I was a loner & I followed my own path; apparently, I’m difficult to read as well by other people who don’t me such as my Mom or younger sister. I played psychological games with people that bullied me; every time it worked. I never lifted a finger for a fight because I played mind games with the bullies. I watched bullies over time to discover their personal weaknesses & I exploited them for my gain. However, I rarely use this now since I don’t like manipulating people, but it is one of my abilities I use in a fight.
I also developed deep connections with family; I remain close to my parents & sisters. Tyler needed to reach out to his family, but chose suicide instead.
Comment by Sebastian Shaw — October 2, 2010 @ 4:53 pm - October 2, 2010
I am a 38 year old married woman ,mother of two teenagers. I can’t tell you how unspeakably sad this entire episode has made me. I not feel pure sorrow for just the mere idea of the angst,hurt, and humiliation that this poor ,innocent soul must have felt in the moments before he took his own life. I pray that God accepts his soul to him and makes him perhaps as a guiding light to others going through similiar trials. I also feel pure ,unadulterated rage at the two individuals who thought a days worth of popularity was worth the utter degradation and humiliation of a fellow human being.I wonder if they feel any regret over their petty,pathetic actions.I hear that Tyler played his violin every week in his church, was a good student and a worthy son. When, dear God will people learn to accept each person as one large human family? We all have our individualties, or own characteristics that make us both different and also make us similar- when will we learn to embrace each other as all children of the LORD and fellow patriots, each worthy of respect, each worthy of community, each worthy of decency, and each worthy of a give and take of life experiences and learned knowledge. I pray that that day will come. As tragic as Tyler’s suicide was, i hope and pray that this will FINALLY put the death knell to bullying,hating, and focusing on what makes us different, instead of what we can all do as a unified people. We NEED each other and we can do so much more together than we could ever do apart- God speed your soul to Heaven ,Tyler- we will not forget you.
Comment by stacie — October 2, 2010 @ 7:53 pm - October 2, 2010
Bullies need to gain some sense of power, for most of them grow up in some situation where they have lost power, and self worth.
Those who Bullies target also have a sense they have lost power or a sense of control over their own lives. . .living in a closet.
Kinda twisted. . .
Comment by rusty — October 2, 2010 @ 8:30 pm - October 2, 2010
For whatever it’s worth – the local TV news in New Jersey (NJN) was reporting that Tyler Clementi had tried to get his RA to change his room assignment before this video incident even happened.
As is often the case with news reports we, the public, do not hear the WHOLE story. Perhaps, part of the story is that Tyler tried to reach out to someone; only that someone wasn’t listening.
Dan, you were right in NOT “forcing” your ideas on your young friend. Far too often well-meaning liberals try to “help” people by placing them in a mold without realizing that we are all unique individuals; without thinking about just exactly what help this person might need.
Did that happen in Tyler’s case? What exactly was his RA’s reaction to Tyler’s request for a room change? Did the RA just tell him to go get help from a “gay group”? Did the RA tell Tyler that he had to learn to live with others who are different and that living with a difficult roommate was a part of “growing up”?
A lot of unanswered questions which we, the public, will never really know. Even sadder is that Tyler’s parents will never know the answers to their questions.
Comment by Charles — October 2, 2010 @ 11:58 pm - October 2, 2010
Because it’s part of growing up and learning that you can’t always have your way and that some people are assholes.
No, TGC, it’s not part of growing up. Thankfully, most children growing up didn’t have to deal with bullies. If this is a good learning experience, then why not require all children to be bullied? Somehow, I wasn’t bullied, but was able to learn, by the time I was an adult, that I don’t always get my own way. And I don’t believe having such a “learning experience” would have helped me in any way.
I do get your point that outlawing it isn’t going to stop it. Even the threat of the death penalty or life in prison doesn’t stop murders from happening. But it doesn’t mean that bullying, when it’s found to be happening, shouldn’t be punished. That would be a real learning experience for the bullies.
Bullying isn’t something that’s just uncomfortable. It’s criminal behavior.
Comment by Pat — October 3, 2010 @ 12:44 pm - October 3, 2010
You right wing gays disgust me. You go on and on here trying to justify and make yourselves feel better about this. You speak of your “dilemna”. This isn’t about YOU its about those gay youth who need positive gay role models. You didn’t even give him that opportunity to see that. You just self analyzed the situation with your conservative view of “it’s nobody’s business”. Well I hope you are happy, it’s blood on your hands!
Comment by Todd B — October 3, 2010 @ 1:27 pm - October 3, 2010
oh, my Todd, we do harbor a lot of hatred, don’t we?
But, even as you lash out against me, you do see me as a positive role model for gay youth.
And please, please, please do tell me how there’s blood on my hands in this particular circumstance. Thanks!
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 3, 2010 @ 2:09 pm - October 3, 2010
Of course I harbor hatred, our gay youth are KILLING THEMSELVES because they are taught to hate themselves by hateful republicans and those who support them! Anyone who supports a republican politician that spews anti-gay rhetoric and policies is complicit in the teaching of our gay youth to hate themselves and has blood on their hands! That you don’t get the connection is unforgivable. You wonder what you could have done? Well your answer is right there, quit supporting anti-gay republicans. Nuff said!
Comment by Todd B — October 3, 2010 @ 4:13 pm - October 3, 2010
Please show me then, Todd, where I support such Republicans. Thanks!
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 3, 2010 @ 4:14 pm - October 3, 2010
That’s right, feign ignorance while another gay child contemplates suicide. Pathetic! I am through here with you if you can’t understand any of what I wrote previously. Continue to think your pro republican support doesn’t have consequences. Sad.
Comment by Todd B — October 3, 2010 @ 4:21 pm - October 3, 2010
Um, Todd, you level a harsh charge against me and refuse to back up your mean-spirited accusations with any evidence.
Wonder why you have such a compelling need to attack an individual with a sincere interest in helping young gay people and a capacity to question his own actions.
Perhaps, you could learn from me and admit the possibility that you could have better handled a situation and seek means to change so that, in the future, you can better help others.
Truly sad, pathetically so in fact.
Once again, let me ask you to please, please show me just exactly how my Republican support has consequences. You make the accusations, now please offer an argument to back them up. Thanks!
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 3, 2010 @ 4:36 pm - October 3, 2010
I offered it and you just don’t get it. Typical. Instead you turn it on to me. Just exactly how would you explain to these young gay people, who felt so horrible that they needed to commit suicide, how would you explain to them your support for those same people whose hateful causes created an atmosphere of verbal and physical violence against them. Don’t give this bullshit wanting me to name them. You run a conservative blog that supports republican ideals. Are you trying to tell me that you haven’t supported any of these republicans who voted against gay causes. Anytime they vote against a gay cause, it is another death blow to a gay youth that they are less than. DO YOU GET IT, YOU SUPPORT IT. HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO THESE DEAD GAY YOUTH!
Comment by Todd B — October 3, 2010 @ 8:33 pm - October 3, 2010
Ah, when asked to provide proof, Todd resorts to the classic ‘because I said so’ defense.
Pathetic. I think Todd is one of those self haters and feels the need to blame someone else for his failures.
Comment by The_Livewire — October 3, 2010 @ 9:11 pm - October 3, 2010
Exact response I expected. I knew you really didn’t care about these kids because you don’t even respond to them about what I said. This is just a news snippet to you, now go back to your self loathing republican lifestyle, I’ll be taking care of you pain in your wake. Goodbye
Comment by Todd B — October 3, 2010 @ 9:20 pm - October 3, 2010
Yup, still nothing but saying ‘see I was right, because I can’t prove anything’.
Next Todd will show us the tolerance of the left by claiming we all should die.
Comment by The_Livewire — October 3, 2010 @ 9:25 pm - October 3, 2010
Um, Todd, I asked you to back up your allegations with facts and arguments. You didn’t. You kept repeating your insults.
Please show me how I support people whose causes create an atmosphere of verbal and physical violence. You say I “run a conservative blog that supports republican ideals.” Ok, then, show me how republican ideals create such an atmosphere.
You have yet to link one post I wrote or identify one individual I support who creates such an atmosphere.
Should be easy if it’s so self-evident to you.
You’re making the charge. Now, provide the evidence. Just repeating the mantras of the left doesn’t mean you’re speaking the truth or providing the evidence. That many left-wingers believing something to be true (i.e. notion that Republican individuals and ideas create an atmosphere of hate) doesn’t make it true.
A link please. Thanks. Oh and when you do identify the hateful Republicans I support, please show how those particular Republicans create such an atmosphere. And how they influenced the student who set up the webcam recording this young man’s private activities.
And then please tell me your thoughts on left-wing bloggers who root around into the private lives of supposedly closeted gay Republicans. Seems the Rutgers student with the webcam has more in common with them than he does with the abstract evil Republicans you so readily decry.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — October 4, 2010 @ 12:45 am - October 4, 2010
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here considered making a video for the “It Gets Better” project kicked off by Dan Savage? I’m not a fan of Savage, but I thought this was a really good idea, as YouTube finally provides an equal-access medium where gay adults can put themselves out there as the role models that we all wanted as teenagers.
Of course, a lot of the resulting videos, though well-meant, aren’t necessarily very constructive — they provide bland reassurance that “things will get better” without offering a lot of insight as to how gay teens can start making their own lives better. Many of the videos had no practical tips apart from “Move to NYC, LA, SF, or some other big city” — in other words, “Flee to the safety of Gay Communities.”
So, I encourage gay conservatives here to contribute a video. And if you’re in the military and can’t speak on camera as an openly gay person — or if you’re just really shy and awkward about talking to a video camera — consider collaborating on a video with a friend who has good “camera presence,” but maybe doesn’t have your writing skills.
Here’s one video that I particularly liked — the guy is not too handsome, not too ugly, not too old, not too young, and has an upbeat, confident, non-whiny speaking voice. And he emphasizes that his peer group as an adult includes straight guys who don’t give a damn that he’s gay. In other words, he’s not trapped in a ghetto or over-reliant on straight women as some sort of buffer between himself and the scary world of heterosexual men.
P.S. Yes, I’m working on my own video.
Comment by Throbert McGee — October 4, 2010 @ 1:46 am - October 4, 2010
[...] Could an older friend have prevented Tyler Clementi’s Suicide? [...]
Pingback by GayPatriot » On Tyler Clementi & the Importance of Mentors — October 4, 2010 @ 4:20 am - October 4, 2010