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What Jerry Brown can learn from his Wisconsin counterpart

Welcome Ann Althouse readers!!  While you’re here, you might want to check out my latest on the protests in the Badger State.

What’s happening in Wisconsin should be happening in California, with public employee unions upset at anticipated cuts in their benefits and legislation limiting their power.  Both the Badger State and the (once-)Golden State have similar rates of unionization in their workforces, 16 and 17% respectively.  Both face huge budget gaps.

Unlike his California counterpart, however, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is taking on the state’s public employee unions, “walking,” as Michelle Malkin puts it, “the fiscal responsibility walk“:

Under Gov. Scott Walker’s proposal, almost every public employee would have to contribute 5.8 percent toward their pensions, and state workers would pay 12.6 percent of their health insurance premiums. The bill received a legislative hearing on Tuesday amid criticism from public employees across the state, including the Green Bay area.

The Republican governor has put the legislation at the center of a budget repair bill that aims to save the state $30 million in the current budget and an additional $300 million over the next two years.

With the prospect of their gravy train running out, the public employee unions are up in arms, but methinks their juvenile stunts won’t have the desired effect.  Instead, they should cause voters to rally round the Republican proposal.  ”The SEIU,” as Malkin notes, “has declared full-scale war on the Badger State over attempts to rein in bloated public union pay and benefits.”

So important is this protest that “Madison public schools are closed Wednesday because too many teachers are taking the day off to protest Gov. Scott Walker’s proposal to limit union bargaining.”  They’re putting their benefits ahead of students’ education.  Maybe Walker should fire ‘em. Well, maybe not.  I mean, as Ann Althouse puts it, the teachers are really teaching their charges a great lesson:

The kids won’t have school, but you can learn a lot of things outside of school. Some of these things are even taught by the teachers who are not there. For example, it’s okay to call in sick when you’re not actually sick, but you just have something that you think is really important.

(H/t: Instapundit.)  Seems the teachers are also teaching the students the benefits of breaking the law as Michelle Malkin reports, “illegally striking teachers from Madison East High School students dragged hundreds of students to their union protests at the Wisconsin Capitol yesterday.

Let’s hope these antics cause Governor Walker and Wisconsin legislators to stand firm.  Should they succeed, they will provide an example to their counterparts in California on how to stand down the forces, according to the former Democratic Speaker of the state Assesmbly, responsible for “80 percent of the state, county and city budget deficits“.

But that would mean aggravating those who most help California Democrats.  And it doesn’t seem Governor Brown or his fellow partisans are willing to do that.  Not yet, at least

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61 Comments

  1. The Union Thugs and Their Socialist Workers allies have begun the thuggery and name-calling, including death threats. IMHO, any Republican governor who isn’t being compared to Hitler by the left isn’t doing his job.

    Comment by V the K — February 16, 2011 @ 7:54 pm - February 16, 2011

  2. Lefty thugs in Wisconsin didn’t get the civility memo.

    Comment by V the K — February 16, 2011 @ 7:59 pm - February 16, 2011

  3. V, you’re stealing my thunder. Was planning a post on that very topic. :-)

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — February 16, 2011 @ 8:06 pm - February 16, 2011

  4. So, what do you think, Dan? Will teachers calling in sick and using their students as protest props do as much for the PR of public employee unions as New York snowplow drivers refusing to plow after the blizzard?

    Comment by V the K — February 16, 2011 @ 8:14 pm - February 16, 2011

  5. Time for a PATCO moment. 8/3/81

    Comment by BigJ — February 16, 2011 @ 8:22 pm - February 16, 2011

  6. V, in Loudoun County Virginia, where I live, the teachers have been pulling the “work to the rule” stunt this year. I know you’re not familiar with my local situation, but it’s the same deal here; we’re broke, the Democrats keep wanting to raise taxes, and the teachers uniuons just ask for more and more and more…

    Comment by Tom the Redhunter — February 16, 2011 @ 8:41 pm - February 16, 2011

  7. Not totally out of the loop, Red, I work in Fairfax County.

    Comment by V the K — February 16, 2011 @ 9:12 pm - February 16, 2011

  8. #6 & #7: Grew up in Springfield, VA. Which is why I moved west after graduating HS.

    There’s one thing Moonbeam believes: that the party won’t end while he’s in attendance. The Federal government and the Democrat Party will never let THE premier beaucoup-electoral-votes state go belly up. After all, the much-maligned Geo W. Bush pledged to rebuild N’awlins. Mr. Obama would never let so many Democrat voters and donors wither on the vine.

    So, Moonbeam can’t learn from Wisconsin, New Jersey, or Texas. He doesn’t have to and frankly he’s not mentally/emotionally built for it.

    Comment by DaveO — February 16, 2011 @ 10:08 pm - February 16, 2011

  9. I find it hard to vilify a group of people, many of whom have to reach into their own pockets to provide supplies for their students. This has progressed to such a point that teachers have a special tax deduction for these expenses.

    By the way, do any of you here attacking teachers actually know a public school teacher who’s living in the lap of luxury?

    Comment by Kevin — February 16, 2011 @ 11:22 pm - February 16, 2011

  10. Plenty of NJ teachers with tenure make over $100k, plus exceedingly generous benefits…AND only work 9-months a year.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — February 17, 2011 @ 12:30 am - February 17, 2011

  11. #9: “I find it hard to vilify a group of people, many of whom have to reach into their own pockets to provide supplies for their students. This has progressed to such a point that teachers have a special tax deduction for these expenses.”

    Kevin, the reason there is less money for supplies is because school budgets are devoted first and foremost to paying the salaries, healthcare benefits, and pensions of teachers, administrators, and retirees.

    Comment by Sean A — February 17, 2011 @ 12:57 am - February 17, 2011

  12. Kevin, do you have evidence that Wisconsin teachers reach into their own pockets to pay for supplies?

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — February 17, 2011 @ 2:14 am - February 17, 2011

  13. Jerry Brown has been in office for how long? Six weeks? Yet, since September, four months BEFORE he even took office, there has been an array of posts questioning his ability to govern.

    Since the inception of Gay Patriot, I can’t find ONE legitimate criticism of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Why is that? Was he the (second) best governor to preside over the state of California? Is that why the world’s fifth largest economy is now #8? I didn’t get the memo that California has been in such amazing shape.

    I ain’t defending Brown. Just find the balance of scales off-kilter.

    Comment by Guilty White Male — February 17, 2011 @ 2:32 am - February 17, 2011

  14. [...] on edge, and, well, this gale of anger ain’t coming from the right.  Our reader V the K links a video interspersing Democratic calls for civility (and attacks on the supposed angry rhetoric of [...]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » The gale of left-wing anger in Wisconsin — February 17, 2011 @ 2:35 am - February 17, 2011

  15. Guilty, I have been measured so far in my criticism of Governor Brown and have praised his attempts to cut state spending. Here, I fault him for not taking on the public employee unions who have, in the past 12 years, seen their benefits increase and their salaries remain high, even as their counterparts in the private sector have seen their salaries cut.

    Should he do that, then I’ll praise him. As to Ahnuld, well, you do raise a fair point. I did praise his initial efforts to reform the state, but when he tacked left, I did stop by paying as close attention to state politics as I previously had and focused on other matters.

    Perhaps, I should have criticized him for failing to push for the same kinds of reforms he touted in his first two years in office.

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — February 17, 2011 @ 2:45 am - February 17, 2011

  16. I find it hard to vilify a group of people, many of whom have to reach into their own pockets to provide supplies for their students. This has progressed to such a point that teachers have a special tax deduction for these expenses.

    Do they? Or do they utilize the tax deduction for business expenses that’s available to everyone else? Also, can you please provide evidence that this is an ongoing, wide spread issue?

    By the way, do any of you here attacking teachers actually know a public school teacher who’s living in the lap of luxury?

    My dad’s a sub. If he draws a schedule with a lunch and two planning periods, he comes home and takes a nap while getting paid. That’s some mighty fine livin’ right there.

    Think maybe teachers could live better if they weren’t forced to fork over cash to the unions to be kicked back to liberal legislators and union bosses? Do the unions ever have dues holidays where collections are suspended during tough times?

    Further, you know how liberals bitch about CEO pay and demand that they do without? How come liberals NEVER mention the salaries of union bosses or demand they do without???

    I find it hard to have pity on folks who willingly (or not) pay protection money to the mob unions.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 17, 2011 @ 3:09 am - February 17, 2011

  17. Say Dan, Gov. Scott’s budget calls for state workers to pay into their retirement. Of course they’re going ballistic and the allegedly poverty stricken teachers are going apeshit.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 17, 2011 @ 3:11 am - February 17, 2011

  18. Oh Kevin, I also find it hard to have pity on people who have to pay for their own retirement just like the regular folks. Especially when so many of the regular folks don’t have any retirement plans of their own. Why should we pay for theirs?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 17, 2011 @ 3:15 am - February 17, 2011

  19. do any of you here attacking teachers actually know a public school teacher who’s living in the lap of luxury?

    My sister and her husband are both public school teachers and they live in a 4800 square foot house on six acres that used to belong to a prominent attorney. This in a state that’s had double-digit unemployment for years.

    BTW, this may shock some of our ignorant leftist friends, but we who work in the private sector ALSO frequently have to buy our own supplies for work, and we don’t get a delicious tax break from the IRS like “public educators” do.

    Comment by V the K — February 17, 2011 @ 5:38 am - February 17, 2011

  20. Also, my sister and her husband…

    - Are provided with free laptops, courtesy of the taxpayers.
    - Pay nothing out-of-pocket for their health care
    - Vacation every spring break at their timeshare in Florida
    - Get three months off every summer.

    I don’t know if that counts as the lap of luxury, but it sounds pretty sweet to me.

    Also, even though I hear liberal schoolteachers constantly whine about having to buy supplies for their students, not a one of them has ever shown me a receipt.

    Comment by V the K — February 17, 2011 @ 5:50 am - February 17, 2011

  21. [...] A tale of two governors – a liberal Democrat who can’t get past his special interests and a conservative Republican who is leading his State to prosperity. [...]

    Pingback by Out and About on a Thursday Morning | Blogs For Victory — February 17, 2011 @ 6:58 am - February 17, 2011

  22. Considering my (private employer) has a school supply drive every year, I don’t feel much sympathy for the ‘paying out of our pockets’ argument either.

    Then again, isn’t it always funny how liberals whine about using their own resources for charity, but want to compel it from the rest of us?

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 17, 2011 @ 7:47 am - February 17, 2011

  23. One of my best friends is a teacher and she’s damn good at it. She makes 50k/year, which frankly, for California, is barely middle-income. She’s hardly living in the lap of luxury. And I speak as someone who works in the PRIVATE SECTOR and works for my own damn self.

    Perhaps, I should have criticized him for failing to push for the same kinds of reforms he touted in his first two years in office.

    I’m sorry, Dan, that you have the audacity to use the word “perhaps,” which implies a reluctance on your part and is condescending to the point I was making. PERHAPS, you should refer to the “state” California is in right now, where we were at in 2003 and get back to me the next time you want to share a critical word on Brown.

    Like I said, I DON’T defend him or corporate back-pocket Democrats, I’m just looking for a balance of debate on this site that doles out the blame equally. And, if the history of Gay Patriot is any indication, it is not equal. And I believe you are better than that.

    Comment by Guilty White Male — February 17, 2011 @ 9:00 am - February 17, 2011

  24. Encouraging Governor Schwarzenegger to further reform (or any at all for that matter) in the face of such entrenched, blind, frenzied Leftists as inhabit the state legislature there…
    would be like teaching your baby brother to piss into a wind: funny for a moment, but really messy and eventually your responsibility to clean up.
    Kudos to Dr. Blatt for steering clear of it.

    Comment by rodney — February 17, 2011 @ 9:34 am - February 17, 2011

  25. I’m just looking for a balance of debate on this site that doles out the blame equally.

    So, why don’t you just start your own damb blog where you can kvetch about both sides to your hearts discontent?

    Ra knows I’ve disagreed with Dan on a lot over the years. (Carly Fiorina, for example.) And to their credit, the guys who run this blog welcome and encourage contrary points of view… unlike left-wing blogs where anybody who doesn’t toe the line gets whacked with the ban-hammer.

    But people who kvetch because the writers of a blog don’t author posts that address their particular bailiwicks are just being whiny and asinine.

    Comment by V the K — February 17, 2011 @ 9:43 am - February 17, 2011

  26. Since the inception of Gay Patriot, I can’t find ONE legitimate criticism of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    As someone who has been with this blog as both a commenter and contributor since almost it’s very beginning six years ago, I can not only say that there has been PLENTY of criticism aimed at the Governator, including at least one link from my blog, but can also say with certainty that you Guilty White Male have not obviously read this blog over the years, as you would not be inclined to make this easily disprovable obviously false statement.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 17, 2011 @ 10:20 am - February 17, 2011

  27. I work in an industry that expect 10% turnover of employees every year. If it doesn’t get to 10%, they try to push out enough to make it 10%. They figure that 10% of the workforce is always “below par” and need to be sent packing.

    While 10% may be a bit high, I can see a 2 to 5% “forced turnover” in teaching .. that may deserve to be institutionalized as policy as a backstop to tenure.

    Comment by Neo — February 17, 2011 @ 10:46 am - February 17, 2011

  28. Like I said, I DON’T defend him or corporate back-pocket Democrats, I’m just looking for a balance of debate on this site that doles out the blame equally. And, if the history of Gay Patriot is any indication, it is not equal. And I believe you are better than that.

    And here we see the latest tactic of the desperate STFU left.

    Screaming at us didn’t work and turned off independents. Attempting to regulate us out of existence is dead in the water. So now we’re on phase three, which is them trying to force us into shutting ourselves up by whining that we’re not “fair” and wanting us to “balance”.

    Of course we note that this whining about Dan not being “fair” is coming from the same gay and lesbian community that considers this fair, balanced, and civilized dialogue.

    So in short, we have proven cheaters whining about how others need to “play fair”.

    Projection. Bullying. Mooching and leaching, trying to exploit peoples’ decency for their own amoral purposes. People like Guilty White Male are nothing more than cheap con artists.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 17, 2011 @ 10:59 am - February 17, 2011

  29. Let’s hope that Wisconsin’s guv takes a page from NJ Gov. Christie’s playbook and starts playing “Jersey style” with these nefarious unions.

    Collective bargaining is nothing but miniature communism. And yes, I said it. Deal with it.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — February 17, 2011 @ 10:59 am - February 17, 2011

  30. One of my best friends is a teacher and she’s damn good at it. She makes 50k/year, which frankly, for California, is barely middle-income. She’s hardly living in the lap of luxury.

    Actually, an income of $50k annually puts her above the California median for a single-earner household ($47k).

    Furthermore, that’s not even the average salary for a California teacher — that would be $67,932, which means California teachers on average are paid significantly above the median wage for the state.

    Meanwhile, I don’t know why your friend would be whining. She joined the union; therefore, the union sets her pay rates. If she’s such a good teacher, she should be more highly compensated than other less-accomplished teachers, but as her joining the union shows, she agrees that lower performers should be paid than higher performers because the union says so.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 17, 2011 @ 11:07 am - February 17, 2011

  31. [GMW] Since the inception of Gay Patriot, I can’t find ONE legitimate criticism of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    [sf] … there has been PLENTY of criticism aimed at the Governator, including at least one link from my blog…

    sf, perhaps the key word from GWM is the qualifier “legitimate”, offered as a synonym for “left-wing”. In other words, GWM’s statement can be saved by making the substitution:

    Since the inception of Gay Patriot, I can’t find ONE left-wing criticism of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 11:20 am - February 17, 2011

  32. people who kvetch because the writers of a blog don’t author posts that address their particular bailiwicks are just being whiny and asinine

    Dittos to that.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 11:21 am - February 17, 2011

  33. #30: And NDT, Guilty White Male’s friend likely only works about 9 months of the year for that salary, plus full healthcare/dental/vision benefits, and a fully funded pension that probably pays 100% of last salary and free, lifetime healthcare/dental/vision benefits after only 20 years of service.

    Comment by Sean A — February 17, 2011 @ 11:54 am - February 17, 2011

  34. Not too mention, Sean A, that even if GWM’s friend does nothing but sit at her desk reading pron and chucking apple cores at her students… she gets the exact same deal! Even if 100% of her students fail their assessment tests, she gets that sweet deal for life.

    Comment by V the K — February 17, 2011 @ 12:12 pm - February 17, 2011

  35. #34: AAAND, V the K, if reading porn at her desk and chucking apple cores at her students led to PROPOSED disciplinary action, she would enjoy due process protections in the form of multi-level administrative hearings and appeals before any discipline could be imposed (and only then, if she lost/exhausted all of her appeals). Due process rights and procedures like this are unheard of in the private sector (the exception being unionized employees whose contract gives the employees due process rights that override an employer’s right to discharge at will for any reason, at any time).

    Comment by Sean A — February 17, 2011 @ 1:38 pm - February 17, 2011

  36. California median for a single-earner household ($47k)

    NDT, this is nit-picking. But I’m seeing a Calif median income at $56 to $62K, depending on the source. Remember too that $60K is not a heck of a lot in many areas in California. Teachers don’t have it as bad as the unions would like you to believe, at least income wise. They use starting pay, which is about $35K as the basis for their propaganda. But, being in business on my own, knowing the cost of doing business in California, and the cost of insurance, teachers do have it better than the unions would like the public to believe.

    That said, I do get a little sick of the unnecessary teacher bashing when the topic of unions come up. There is a saying I see bandied about from time to time:

    “Those who can, do.
    Those who can’t, teach”

    Those who say that have never been in a classroom. In the, oh, thirty years I’ve been out in the working world, teaching is by far the most challenging thing I’ve ever attempted to conquer. Those who disparage teachers do not understand the pressures that are placed on teachers from all sides, both government and by parents. Schools suck? Well, then they need more regulations on teachers to make things better! How many of you know that special ed students are required to take the tests required by NCLB. Yes, despite the fact that they are in special ed because… you know, they are learning disabled. Kids that do horrible things in the school or in the classroom that would have gotten us suspended when we were in school, now typically get sent back to class, because every empty seat in a classroom means less $$$ for the school (why do you think schools are fenced in? it’s not just about preventing truancy). Students who were, for what ever reason, not good students, who were allowed to drop out of school in the fifties and sixties, and used to instead contribute to society by working fields or in factories; those who were not students and had other options are now captives of the school system.

    You have not had to deal with classrooms filled with both very high achievers mixed with very low achievers, and you are expected to crate a lesson plan that challenges the smartest kids in the class yet not leaving the lower achieving students behind – the theory is that if you separate students by ability, it will hurt the lower achieving students self esteem, thus preventing them from learning – thus you design lessons that are on middle ground and you end up losing both groups (I swear, some ed theory is just idiotic and nonsensical).

    You have not had to deal with indifferent administrations and either unresponsive parent, or worse yet, parent who also disparage teachers because they won’t acknowledge their kid is not the little angel they are disillusioned to believe.

    And, for all the problems outside of our control… We, the teachers, are supposed to fix everything! So many have no idea that teachers earn every penny they get.

    Rant Off.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 17, 2011 @ 2:01 pm - February 17, 2011

  37. Sonic, I’m not asking this to be mean. I like you, and my son loves the headphones you recommended for Christmas, but… don’t public school teachers elect the unions and the politicians who promulgate the very policies you decry?

    Comment by V the K — February 17, 2011 @ 2:19 pm - February 17, 2011

  38. Exactly. For example:

    Schools suck? Well, then they need more regulations on teachers

    That’s a Democrat, teacher-union position. Because it leads to more of those cushy (from the standpoint of being highly secure) jobs. I don’t think we need more regulations on teachers, I think we need less… plus school vouchers to introduce market pressure.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 2:26 pm - February 17, 2011

  39. #36:

    Sonicfrog,

    NO ONE thinks teaching is an easy job with no difficulties or unique challenges.

    But it is not teacher “bashing” to refuse to continue speaking about the teaching profession in hushed tones and with breathless reverence based on the myths that: teachers choose the profession out of the kindness of their hearts; all teachers are criminally underpaid; and all teachers are so committed to their jobs that any failure of their students to learn is presumptively the fault of uninvolved, indifferent parents.

    Teachers have been coasting on the unimpeachable “nobility” of their jobs to shield them from criticism for decades and the party’s over.

    Comment by Sean A — February 17, 2011 @ 2:31 pm - February 17, 2011

  40. Sonic, I’m not asking this to be mean. I like you, and my son loves the headphones you recommended for Christmas, but… don’t public school teachers elect the unions and the politicians who promulgate the very policies you decry?

    That’s not mean at all. Unfortunately, the majority of those in the teaching profession are libs and will elect those who agree with their politics. That said, People underestimate the amount of conservatives who are teachers. I would venture to guess that a majority of history teachers are conservatives. English and science? Probably lib leaning. And yes, they do often chop off their noses to spite their face. But the onerous regulatory push has come from BOTH sides of the isle. A kid can get into a fight, punch a teacher in the process, and return to school the next day (happened at the school where I was student teaching) which is the fault of the liberal push for “student’s rights”, and another kid will be expelled for simply having a nail clipper or aspirin in her purse, which is very much the results of a Conservative push for “zero tolerance” left over from the late 80′s. There are no clean hands here. The system needs desperately to be blown up and remade in a sensible fashion, with much more control at the local level. Believe it or not, many of the liberal teachers who I’ve gotten to know agree with this assessment. Their blindness is that, by having the unions support political candidates, they don’t see that the unions will only support safe candidates – they can’t afford to support a candidate who will think outside the box, thus handing victory to the enemy, i.e. a Conservative!

    Now, on regulation. I must point out that liberals AND unions HATED NCLB, and as it turned out, for good reason. TGC said this:

    That’s a Democrat, teacher-union position. I don’t think we need more regulations on teachers, I think we need less…

    No… It’s not. From my experience, talking to other teachers who are liberal, their position is very much in line with yours. They want to be left alone to teach. That was their main summarized grief was with NCLB. What-ever their faults, and there are many, the unions want better pay with less regulation – Period!

    Which leads me to ask one question – Where is the Republican push to refund and dismantle NCLB? Maybe I missed it, but among all the talk of cutting the budget, I haven’t come across that call. But, like I said… Maybe I missed it.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 17, 2011 @ 3:29 pm - February 17, 2011

  41. have to go work. Will expand on a few things later.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 17, 2011 @ 3:35 pm - February 17, 2011

  42. #40 “I didn’t say that. Sounds like Dickens.”

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — February 17, 2011 @ 4:33 pm - February 17, 2011

  43. Oops. Meant ILC.

    I hate typing on my phone.

    Comment by sonicfrog — February 17, 2011 @ 6:27 pm - February 17, 2011

  44. No… It’s not.

    Yes… it is. I’m sure that teachers as individuals do say “Let us teach”. But the philosophy of slapping on ever-more layers of regulation and bureaucracy whenever there’s a problem, is the essence of Big Government. Republican politicians support Big Government much too often, but not always; Democrat politicians support Big Government always. And the bureaucrats and union organizers always find it in their hearts – somehow (sniff) – to cave in and accept, in the end, whatever proposals that mean more jobs for bureaucrats or union people.

    Where is the Republican push to refund and dismantle NCLB?

    Being a confirmed Independent, I wouldn’t know or care, sorry. My comments about Republicans and Democrats here are general observations.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 6:50 pm - February 17, 2011

  45. (continued) And as for school vouchers? Fuhgeddabahdit. The idea of competition in schools, makes union teachers’ – and Democrat politicians’ – heads explode.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 6:54 pm - February 17, 2011

  46. Well, Lieberman might be an exception – he is working with Boehner to try to bring school vouchers back in DC: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/26/boehner-backed-bill-boost-dc-school-vouchers-intro/

    Then again, Lieberman is an exception to the usual run of Democrat, on a great many things. Which is why Daily Kos tried to kill his career.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 7:00 pm - February 17, 2011

  47. #46: And why an angry mob of bombastic, McCarthyite Hollywood twats tried to get the Susan G. Komen Foundation to terminate its relationship with Lieberman’s wife, who serves as a global ambassador for the foundation.

    http://thehill.com/capital-living/in-the-know/72195-liebermans-wife-targeted-by-liberal-website

    Comment by Sean A — February 17, 2011 @ 8:00 pm - February 17, 2011

  48. ILC, here is the conjecture you’ve presented.

    I said:

    Schools suck? Well, then they need more regulations on teachers

    You replied:

    That’s a Democrat, teacher-union position.

    I’ll have to do some research, but it will be interesting to see how much education regulation has come from Dems vs Repubs. I don’t have time to dig into this today (have to get ready for band practice) but, I’m betting that the R’s have added more ed regs than D’s…. But, we’ll see. Hopefully, I’ll get back to you tomorrow.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 17, 2011 @ 8:01 pm - February 17, 2011

  49. Sounds good, sf. I’m too busy to research it myself today, and always glad to learn.

    Only please be sure that you don’t miss my actual point in the process:

    …the philosophy of slapping on ever-more layers of regulation and bureaucracy whenever there’s a problem, is the essence of Big Government. Republican politicians support Big Government much too often, but not always; Democrat politicians support Big Government always. And the bureaucrats and union organizers always find it in their hearts – somehow (sniff) – to cave in and accept, in the end, [] proposals that mean more jobs for bureaucrats or union people…

    …And [what about] school vouchers?

    ;-)

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 8:11 pm - February 17, 2011

  50. Everyone has it all wrong. Teachers do not make a high salary while they are actually working, it is when teachers retire that they make a high salary. Typically, after 30 to 35 years of service, a teacher makes 70% to 80% of their regular salary. Since the average life expectancy keeps increasing, this is costing zillions of dollars! Being realistic, it would be pretty tough for most teachers in the nation to be able to save for retirement given their current salaries; especially since there are no available 40lK plans. Therefore, in order to save money from paying out huge retirement benefits, teachers should be paid like other professional jobs that require a college education from the get-go so they can be responsible for saving for their own retirements.

    Comment by BeingRealistic — February 17, 2011 @ 9:18 pm - February 17, 2011

  51. I should have criticized him for failing to push for the same kinds of reforms he touted in his first two years in office

    Should have, would have could have. It doesn’t give your criticism of Brown a whole lot of credence. If Schwarzenegger had a “D” after he is name, instead of an “R,” I doubt you would have allowed seven years to pass with nary a negative comment. In fact, judging by your pre-emptive criticism of Brown, if it had been a “D,” I’d gather you’d have had 679 posts. The number is unscientific, more of a ballpark figure. Do you disagree?

    V2K> I always count on your mature responses. /sarcasm My friend works with special ed kids at a high school level and she’s one of the best teachers out there. I doubt she ever has looked at porn in her life, but I can always count on you to keep things classy.

    Sonic> Sorry, the GP post you reference hardly takes Schwarzenegger to task like GP has done with Brown BEFORE he even took office. And, no, there aren’t a litany of criticisms. I’ve looked. And, for the record, I’ve been reading this blog for years. But, thank you for schooling ND40 with some facts. I appreciate it.

    ND40> I see you also like to debate maturely. Touchy much? Call me when the shuttle lands, sport. ;) And I never said my friend was whining. You’re projecting, sport. I don’t project on you. Please offer me the same respect. K?

    ILC> Really? Please. Of all the regular conservatives (although you call yourself independent) on here, you’re better than this. No, not one “legitimate” OR, in your words, “left-wing.” None, nada.

    Sean A>Why do you even bother commenting on anything I’ve said when you told me last month you have no interest in having anything to do with me anymore. Be consistent, will you?

    Listen, when it comes down to it, I like all you guys. I wouldn’t have stuck around for so long. If I met you in person, I think it would be easier to understand where you’re coming from. That’s an open-invite. I’m in L.A.

    Cheers and good night.

    Comment by Guilty White Male — February 17, 2011 @ 9:22 pm - February 17, 2011

  52. GWM, I was trying to help you out. You see, your original statement was just foolish:

    [GMW] Since the inception of Gay Patriot, I can’t find ONE legitimate criticism of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

    Since, as others have pointed out, there have been criticisms of Ahnuld on this blog. The only way to save your statement, i.e. the only way for you to not be a fool for having uttered a falsehood, would be if “legitimate” is in fact your lingo for “left-wing”. I merely pointed it out. You’re welcome. But since you don’t like it, next time I won’t try to save your statements; next time I will be quicker to assume that you are a fool.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 17, 2011 @ 9:30 pm - February 17, 2011

  53. ILC>Again, you’re better than the “fool” remark.

    No, I meant legitimate. I did not mean left-wing. I meant legitimate. As in independent. As in non-party affiliated. As in legitimate. As in there wasn’t one legitimate post examining any of his decisions as being bad for for California or going down the wrong path. If you can please provide one post from past GP that spends the whole post taking Schwarzenegger to task for anything he’s done (or am I to assume he did everything RIGHT?) in his seven years as a governor, please do and make a proper “fool” out of me.

    Sonic pointed out one sentence from a post that mainly harped on Democrats, Unionists and environmentalists.

    Comment by Guilty White Male — February 17, 2011 @ 9:46 pm - February 17, 2011

  54. Looks like Guilty White Fool is now in the process of desperately trying to move the goalposts down the field.

    Take this as a lesson, Dan. Partisan puppets like Guilty White Fool are not interested in honest debate. Treat them as pathological cheaters and require them to set down the rules before you answer them. You showed your character by answering honestly; Guilty White Fool showed his by attacking you and trying to change the rules when the facts did not bear out his lies that you had never criticized Schwarzenegger.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 18, 2011 @ 3:06 am - February 18, 2011

  55. Guilty, take my criticisms of Brown at face value. And note that I also offered hi some words of praise.

    As to failing to criticize Ahnuld before he took office, well, I wasn’t blogging then. I didn’t start blogging until a year after he took office.

    Even so, in his brief transition period, he was saying all the right things — and hiring all the right people (many veterans of the last successful gubernatorial administration in CA, that of Pete Wilson).

    I’m not criticizing Brown because he’s a Democrat. I criticize him because while I appreciate the attempts he’s been making to control state spending, I’m concerned that he has not yet addressed the power of the state public employee unions and the anti-business climate in the state.

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — February 18, 2011 @ 5:00 am - February 18, 2011

  56. Sonic pointed out one sentence from a post that mainly harped on Democrats, Unionists and environmentalists.

    Translation: Schwarzenegger did get criticized, but it wasn’t left-wing enough for you. Excuse me, “legitimate” (*cough*).

    How about the post where Dan referred to Ahnuld as an “ostensible Republican” and “Charlie Crist’s leading California cheerleader”? (Both being slams.) Guess you missed that. one. Or, since it was not a Left-based criticism – and criticized leftists at the same time – then, in your warped jargon, it would not be “legitimate” criticism.

    Take a flying leap, GWM. You are indeed a fool.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 18, 2011 @ 11:23 am - February 18, 2011

  57. Or the post where Dan criticized Schwarzenegger for his lack of fiscal conservatism. I’m finding these in Google in less than 2 minutes. It takes longer to type these comments. But it’s criticism of Ahnuld from his Right, not from his Left – so you miss it, or apply your jargon-y claim of “not legitimate” or some such nonsense.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 18, 2011 @ 11:28 am - February 18, 2011

  58. Sonic> Sorry, the GP post you reference hardly takes Schwarzenegger to task like GP has done with Brown BEFORE he even took office. And, no, there aren’t a litany of criticisms. I’ve looked. And, for the record, I’ve been reading this blog for years.

    Ah, but, as others have pointed out, you’ve moved the goal post of your original question. Here is the first version of your question.

    Since the inception of Gay Patriot, I can’t find ONE legitimate criticism of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Why is that?

    Here’ … and another. From the last one:

    People chose Brown because they wanted a change in Sacramento and believed Brown would be the least like outgoing Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. …

    … And that’s a two-fer, dinging both Arnold AND Brown with one shot!

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 18, 2011 @ 12:46 pm - February 18, 2011

  59. The criticisms are mostly short, or implicit (comparing Ahnuld to Democrats), or mixed in with criticism of other people/things. So what? There have been many over the years and, per GWM’s original claim, there only needed to be “ONE”. Unless we’re going to be subjected to gamesmanship over the qualifier “legitimate”, and we were.

    sf, on the education thing – don’t sweat it. Again my point was about the philosophy of Big Government, problems always having to be solved through government; I phrased it to allow examples of education regulation from either party. You don’t have to research it for my sake. If you do it anyway, you ought to find examples from both Democrats and Republicans – but, I still think, more from Democrats. Off the top of my head:
    - Dept. of Education – established by Carter and a Dem Congress.
    - No Child Left Unharmed – signed by Bush, not sure which party had Congress BUT I believe Kennedy’s staff wrote most of the bill.
    - Anything in CA education in the last 40 years: could have been signed by either a Republican or a Democrat governor, probably came from a Democrat legislature as their control since 1970 has been unbroken except for 1995-6.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 18, 2011 @ 1:06 pm - February 18, 2011

  60. NCLB was modeled after a program implemented in Texas, in the El Paso district if memory serves, while GW was Governor. The late Molly Ivans was all over it when it was being massaged through the house and senate.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 18, 2011 @ 6:05 pm - February 18, 2011

  61. ILC > Your posts have gotten angrier in a very short period of time. Take care of yourself, will ya’?

    Comment by Guilty White Male — February 21, 2011 @ 10:01 pm - February 21, 2011

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