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Obsession & Intolerance

Posted by B. Daniel Blatt at 4:29 pm - March 24, 2011.
Filed under: Free Speech,Freedom,Gay PC Silliness

Every now and again, I’ll meet a man (or woman) who technically qualifies as an “ex-gay.”  Yet, even though these individuals once slept with members of their own sex and now have chosen life partners of the opposite sex, they don’t identify as such.  Some, usually the men, only reluctantly acknowledge their homosexual past.  The women occasionally do — oftentimes to their husbands’ amusement.

Those who dwell on their past seem as if they’re trying to convince themselves they’re no longer attracted to men.  The more they protest (to borrow an expression), the more we doubt their sincerity.  While most people who change rarely mention their past attitudes, ex-gays seems obsessed with theirs, as if their entire identity is tied up in not being gay.

Indeed, as reader ThatGayConservative informed me in an e-mail, one ex-gay group has even come up with an app for their obsession:

Exodus International, the notorious “ex-gay” organization, has just released an iPhone app that, according to its website, is “designed to be a useful resource for men, women, parents, students, and ministry leaders.” The Exodus website further boasts that its app received a 4+ rating from Apple, meaning that it contains “no objectionable content.”

Those who have successfully pushed to have Apple pull the app have called “Exodus’ message is hateful and bigoted” (emphasis in original), might want to examine their own prejudices.  Just because someone is obsessive does not mean he is hateful or bigoted.  (Why must every attitude which does not correspond with the ideology of the gay left be defined as some form of hate?)

Now, Apple is a private company and should be free to pull — or provide — the app.  But, one wonders at the intolerance of the anti-ex-gays, why are they so committed to suppressing this obsessive group.  If they were truly confident of their own ideas, wouldn’t they welcome opportunities to contest ex-gays’ contentions in public fora and in open debate?

So, we have one side which can’t stop talking about that which they claim they are not.  And another upset every time those obsessives get a public forum.

I say, let the ex-gays speak, let them have their app, the more exposure they get, the more hollow becomes their rhetoric and the more readily we can contest their claims.

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81 Comments

  1. Although not out in high school, I was disconnected from sexuality that I was asexual because I hated being gay; I was very uncomfortable with myself to the point I could not even talk about it due to the shame & guilt I felt being gay.

    I finally accepted myself my sophomore year in college, but it still took another 2 years of being used to being “out.” Do you know when you dream of being naked in public? This is how I felt after I came out; this feeling vanished though after several months. As a result, I was a late bloomer on virtually everything.

    I believe the “ex-gays” for their own reasons willingly disconnect from their authentic selves; I find it to be unhealthy in the long run. I find their obsessions to be mirror image of the Leftist gays who relish in reliving their “coming out” & pushing themselves onto other people who are clearly uncomfortable with half-naked men in public. The ex-gays are their mirror image.

    Comment by Sebastian Shaw — March 24, 2011 @ 4:51 pm - March 24, 2011

  2. Yep. When I was a theater major (OK, if there was any doubt I’m gay…) there was one guy in my theater class who I got along with pretty well. I was still very concealed about my feeling then and, as far as I know, Darren didn’t know that I was gay. Turns out… I didn’t know he was gay either. I only found out because a guy I eventually did fool around with, Scott (who wasn’t “out” but much closer than I was) had messed around with Darren numerous times.

    The next semester, Darren came back a changed man. He was suddenly extremely religious, and not in a good way. Apparently Scott had told him that I too was gay, and so Darren took it upon himself to try and convert me and bring me into the Church. I’m not talking a casual conversation. He was trying to save me from my gayness.

    God, it was annoying as hell.

    That said, I thought it was silly for people to complain about this app. But, then again, this is also a part of a free market system, where people complain enough to institute change.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — March 24, 2011 @ 5:00 pm - March 24, 2011

  3. As I’ve said It seems odd to me that Change.org could petition Apple to remove an app by an organization that prays for gays. Yet there’s still Islamic apps even though Muslims kill gays. Perhaps there ought to be a petition to Apple and Android Market to remove all the Islamic apps?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 24, 2011 @ 5:06 pm - March 24, 2011

  4. As far as I’m concerned, the Exodus crew and the militantly anti-Exodus crew both deserve each other.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 24, 2011 @ 5:37 pm - March 24, 2011

  5. there is this

    http://www.beyondexgay.com/

    Comment by rusty — March 24, 2011 @ 5:40 pm - March 24, 2011

  6. Look, if a man doesn’t want to be a man and thinks he wants to be a woman, it’s supposed to be compassionate and politically correct to encourage him to become a woman; or at least a crude facsimile thereof.

    So, if a person doesn’t want to be gay, why is it wrong to support him in his hopes not to be gay.

    Whatever Exodus does can’t be worse than cutting off your dick and filling your body up with toxic chemicals.

    Comment by V the K — March 24, 2011 @ 6:10 pm - March 24, 2011

  7. When I was a teenager, the headmaster of my school outed me to my parents and recommended an ex gay program/camp. My normally intellegent parents in an unusual lapse of judgement went along with him and sent me off. Without going into details, I was subjected to some rather intense “therapy” at the hands of rather unenlighted Christian fundies. Among some the things I was told was “you don’t trust God” or “you don’t love Jesus” or you are not praying or fasting enough. One of them told me that if I did not change my orientation, that God would simply “take” me, in order to keep me from a life of sin. After 5 weeks of this, I managed to call my grandmother who said enough of this shit and sent a plane for me.

    I am 50 years old now, and certainly over it, but I still hope these people go to hell.

    Comment by David in N.O. — March 24, 2011 @ 6:22 pm - March 24, 2011

  8. V if a man or woman does not want to be homosexually oriented that’s fine and it seems some reparative organizations are coming around to the fact that it is not easy, if not impossible, to change sexual attraction. But if some one has an unwanted same sex attraction and makes the decision themselves to live a celibate life or even marry, then it’s good they have a place to go for support. If i had a friend doing that because it is what he wants, I would completely support him.

    Comment by David in N.O. — March 24, 2011 @ 6:37 pm - March 24, 2011

  9. Let them complain about the app, but the free market will ultimately decide if it needs to be taken down.

    Comment by Sebastian Shaw — March 24, 2011 @ 7:04 pm - March 24, 2011

  10. So, if a person doesn’t want to be gay, why is it wrong to support him in his hopes not to be gay.

    Transsexuality is acceptable because gender denialism fits the leftist agenda of promiscuity by blaming “rigid society” for not accepting those who are “different”. However, the idea that you have and can exercise some degree of control over your sexual attractions strikes at the very taproot of all of the left’s sacred cows — sex with children a la Roman Polanski, abortion, and antireligious hatemongering.

    If the left had to acknowledge that its idols like Polanski who have sex with children make that choice, then they would have to rationalize said choice. If the left had to acknowledge that abortion is only required in cases where women and men chose to have unprotected sex, then they would have to rationalize why society should fund their irresponsibility. Above all else, they would have to acknowledge that the religious and moral beliefs they have spent their whole lives spitting on in fact have public and societal value, and that the promiscuity they espouse has dangerous and deadly consequences.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 24, 2011 @ 7:51 pm - March 24, 2011

  11. Let them complain about the app, but the free market will ultimately decide if it needs to be taken down.

    The free market didn’t decide. Chang.org put together a petition and had Apple remove it.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 24, 2011 @ 8:06 pm - March 24, 2011

  12. The moment that @ND30 leaves his homosexual partner and marries a woman I’ll take him serious.

    Comment by Tim — March 24, 2011 @ 8:33 pm - March 24, 2011

  13. @ThatGayConservative so gays working on the free market are ridiculous but straights affecting the free market are more important?

    Comment by Tim — March 24, 2011 @ 8:35 pm - March 24, 2011

  14. The problem is that exodus targets confused and emotionally unstable teenagers and there parents. Look if a group of adults want to play at being ex gay fine, but this stuff can be at the heart of why some confused young person feels even more rejected. If you actually take a look at some of the thing people at this organization have said. if you look at bizarre occurrences like “holding therapy”, you would see apple has made a very appropriate decision not to assist this organization it putting out there message. Remember apple is private company and can reject anything they want. I applaud them for choosing this to reject

    Comment by Trent Grasse — March 24, 2011 @ 8:49 pm - March 24, 2011

  15. @ThatGayConservative so gays working on the free market are ridiculous but straights affecting the free market are more important?

    No, dipshit. I said, essentially, that the free market wasn’t allowed to decide because a bunch of liberal pussies got their tampons in a collective bunch. They feigned offense and demanded the app be removed.

    Jesus H. Pay attention.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 24, 2011 @ 11:47 pm - March 24, 2011

  16. I also wonder, still, WHY the liberal pussies get their tampons in a bunch when Christians pray for them, but couldn’t give a royal damn when muslims KILL them.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 24, 2011 @ 11:49 pm - March 24, 2011

  17. The problem is that exodus targets confused and emotionally unstable teenagers and there parents.

    Does Exodus in fact have a “Teen Ministry”?

    A few years ago, a heterosexual Christian friend of mine (who still thinks homosex is a sin but has otherwise come a long way since high school) asked me for my opinion on “ex-gay” ministries.

    And my answer was rather long and complicated, but it started out with: “Debbie”, before I get into my long and complicated answer, can we just agree up front that ex-gay programs are totally inappropriate for teenagers who are questioning their sexuality, and that such teens should get the same True Love Waits message that totally hetero teens do?

    And “Debbie” did, in fact, immediately recognize why it was problematic for ex-gay programs to accept teenagers who are still financially dependent on their parents.

    Comment by Throbert McGee — March 25, 2011 @ 12:27 am - March 25, 2011

  18. The moment that @ND30 leaves his homosexual partner and marries a woman I’ll take him serious.

    Why?

    The fact that you haven’t come to peace with your choice and are still desperately looking for an excuse to avoid responsibility for your behavior?

    I made my choice, for better or for ill, and accept all of the benefits and consequences therein. You simply aren’t man enough to do that.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 12:44 am - March 25, 2011

  19. Dan:

    Why don’t you spend some time with the countless victims we spend time with at Truth Wins Out, educate yourself on the fruits of that industry, and then talk?

    Seriously?

    This is kind of what the fuck we do for a living. And I really don’t need ignorant gay people shitting on what these people (there are thousands) have been through, without knowing what they’re talking about.

    THX!

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 25, 2011 @ 2:42 am - March 25, 2011

  20. Oh, and since you’re in this thread too, ND30:

    I hear your pathetic self is still obsessed with me, on numerous websites. How’s that going for you? Surely, you’re not finding fulfillment. Get help.

    *heart*

    me

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 25, 2011 @ 2:45 am - March 25, 2011

  21. @Throbert:

    Yeah, they actually do have teen ministries. They’ve been investigated in several states, even in the south, for giving un-licensed therapy, and every time that happens, they tuck tail and run and find a new way to promote their sadistic bullshit. Believe me, I live in Memphis, where Exodus’s flagship model, Love in Action, is. It’s obscene. Google the words “Zack” and “Love in Action” and see what you find. You’ll be stunned.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — March 25, 2011 @ 2:48 am - March 25, 2011

  22. Evan, why don’t you address the arguments I make in my posts?

    This is a post about freedom and free speech and a post where I criticize professional ex-gays and, by extension, their movement.

    Do hope that those helping individuals in the ex-gay programs show a greater understanding for and appreciation of those who may hold political views at odds with the gay mainstream and can understand how the pressure to conform in our community might make some people feel alienated.

    (PS I’ve read enough stuff about and by Exodus and other “ex-gay” ministries to know that while they have some bizarre ideas of human development, they are not haters nor are they bigots. Ignorant indeed of the complexities of the human psyche, but not hateful. I’ve found more hateful rhetoric on certain left-wing websites than on theirs.)

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — March 25, 2011 @ 2:54 am - March 25, 2011

  23. This is kind of what the fuck we do for a living.

    You mean other than making racist imagery and mocking Dan and his family? The last damn place I would go for any kind of help is to hate-filled assholes like you, Evan.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 25, 2011 @ 3:12 am - March 25, 2011

  24. These so-called “progressives”, like Evan, are the book-burners of the 21st century. What ever happened to “sticks and stones…”?

    fact: Not one of us knows what “causes” homosexuality
    fact: every major religion on earth says it is sinful behavior
    fact: Not one of us knows whether or not there is a God.

    So let people make up their own minds. Let people decide if they value homosexuality more than they value religion, if they disagree with one or the other or both.

    But “progressives” are not, and never have been willing to let others make their own choices. The militant gay leftists, like Evan here, are fighting their own demons for all to see. Even is far more militant, far more fundamentalist than Sonic Frog’s fundamentalist classmate (at least from what Sonic wrote). Evan doesn’t just want to tell people what he believes, to proselytize as it were, he wants to burn the books, and apps, that present a different point of view, and wants to prevent people from even having the choice of considering that point of view and deciding for themselves.

    This is a core tenant of fascism, the oppression of all opposition.

    Just as the left has been trying to shut down FOX News, get Glenn Beck kicked off the air, get Breitbart thrown off Huffinton Post, etc, etc. Its why they shout down and bully anyone who disagrees with gay marriage as “hateful”.

    “Progressives” cannot handle other viewpoints. They are not capable of exorcising their own demons, as it were, their own psyches are so fragile, so insecure, they must silence anyone who dares challenge their fragile ideas.

    So they burn books, and burn apps, and boycott and bully, extort, threaten and worse. The left has always been thus, and always will be. Its why we have fascism, naziism, communism, and other totalitarianisms — there are some people who can only deal with life by commanding and controlling others. Even while they convince themselves they are only doing so in the name of the greater good, in the name of righteousness.

    What will Evan do now that the apps have been thrown into the fire? Now that the books have been burned?

    Comment by American Elephant — March 25, 2011 @ 3:59 am - March 25, 2011

  25. These so-called “progressives”, like Evan, are the book-burners of the 21st century.

    Exactly what I was thinking earlier today. Instead of allowing a product to live or die by the free market, as it were, the left usurps the free market and tells us what’s good for us. From the Ex-gay app all the way to oil and SUVs.

    Its why we have fascism, naziism, communism, and other totalitarianisms — there are some people who can only deal with life by commanding and controlling others.

    Don’t forget Global Warmism.

    What will Evan do now that the apps have been thrown into the fire? Now that the books have been burned?

    Ride on Wayne Besen’s c*ck to the nearest Chick-Fil-A for lunch and then Soros back shaving.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 25, 2011 @ 5:22 am - March 25, 2011

  26. When I said what I said at #4, I wondered if that Evan Something-guy would turn up. There he is.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 5:23 am - March 25, 2011

  27. Ah, so once again, the Fascist Gay Left is hiding behind the “we’re doing it for the children” excuse.

    Funny how they didn’t seem to care about the mental or physical health of teenagers when GLSEN and the Safe School Czar were teaching 14 year olds about fisting and rough sex.

    Comment by V the K — March 25, 2011 @ 6:26 am - March 25, 2011

  28. V the K, that was for the children too.

    I think part of the hatred of Exodus can be summed up as one word.

    Fear.

    Lots of straight men are uncomfortable about being around ‘teh gheys’ because they don’t know how to react to a guy finding them attractive. There’s a fear that something is ‘wrong’ with them for being found attractive by another guy.

    Now look at Exodus. It takes a lot of time to come to terms with being aberrant.* It takes a lot of effort to accept that it’s part of who you are, and not something that can be cut out (“Have you tried not being a mutant?”) Reparitive therapy is out there, and *if* it works for some** then it brings that doubt niggling back to the front. “Why can Billy change his orientation and I can’t?” It doesn’t matter why. It’s the fact that he *can* that shatters the worldview.

    *Yes I said aberrant. Deal with it. I’m an abberation because I’m left handed, same sex attraction is aberrant in the same sense. (or, if you’re Joe Biden, the President is aberrant because he’s clean and articulate)

    **I’ve not studied the ‘former-gay’ movement enough to even guess at numbers.

    Comment by The_Livewire — March 25, 2011 @ 7:51 am - March 25, 2011

  29. Ah, so once again, the Fascist Gay Left is hiding behind the “we’re doing it for the children” excuse.

    Ironically, that’s one of the reasons given for the Gestapo power grab on this Military History Channel doco I’m watching. Then they said that Himmler wasn’t worried so much about what their laws were doing to the children. It was all about power.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 25, 2011 @ 8:11 am - March 25, 2011

  30. Dan, I used to have a big problem with ex-gay organizations. Yes, they are still a bunch of unprofessional quacks, so I’ll leave it to adults to put their trust in them, if they so wish. However, I’ll concure with Throbert, and think it best that they don’t prey on minors.

    As for Exodus, it’s up to Apple if they want to have it as an app. First they did because of support, and then they decided to remove it because of protests. Free market here. Exodus is free to petition other companies to get their app on.

    Comment by Pat — March 25, 2011 @ 11:24 am - March 25, 2011

  31. I think part of the hatred of Exodus can be summed up as one word. Fear.

    Much of the fear is justified. They lead individuals down a path of trying to be something they’re not (as your comments suggest). Bad idea: see Aesop’s Fables, The Jackdaw and the Pigeons. Having said that, living one’s life in a reactive obession with stamping them out is no good answer, either. Thus, as I said: Exodus, and its militant-obsessive type of opponents, deserve each other.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 11:34 am - March 25, 2011

  32. 6.Look, if a man doesn’t want to be a man and thinks he wants to be a woman, it’s supposed to be compassionate and politically correct to encourage him to become a woman; or at least a crude facsimile thereof.

    So, if a person doesn’t want to be gay, why is it wrong to support him in his hopes not to be gay.

    V the K, I agree somewhat. But these are two different situations.

    If a gay person really wanted to change orientation, I would be sure to inform him that it is highly doubtful that he can change. That he should be sure to not fool himself to think he has changed when he in fact has not. And I would also urge for him to find out why he doesn’t want to be gay. Is it because his parents or some holy book said being gay is naughty? Is it because he might become a promiscuous drug user if he stays gay (the thing that apparently some parents believe, and don’t trust their children to do otherwise). But if he still wanted to change, I would urge him to seek a professional, and not a quack organization. And he would have my support.

    As for the person who is biologically a man, but identifies as being a woman, the person really has a dilemma. First the person should seek counselling, especially because of the consequences of taking any actions. If the person still identifies as a woman, I sincerely doubt that even if he remains biologically a man, he can ever change. So now he has two choices. Stay biologically as a man, or have the sex reassignment surgery, and all that comes with it. Obviously, the latter is difficult, but many persons decided that was the route to go, and are happy with that decision.

    Unfortunately for the gay person who wants to become straight, it is much more difficult to change than it is for a man to become a woman.


    So let people make up their own minds. Let people decide if they value homosexuality more than they value religion, if they disagree with one or the other or both.

    Why make it a false choice. One can still value religion and be homosexual. It’s not either/or. They can value religion and either decide to ignore the part of homosexuality being naughty (kind of like the 95% Catholics who ignore the no birth control thing). Or they can change religions. At least religion is a choice.

    By the same token, a person who belongs to a religion that accepts homosexuality still has the right to try the ex-gay thing if he wants. No biggie.

    Comment by Pat — March 25, 2011 @ 11:48 am - March 25, 2011

  33. Being Ex-gay is about as real as being “Ex-Black”

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 12:05 pm - March 25, 2011

  34. You people need to look at the damage these ex-gay groups do. Kids sent to these places often come back worse than before, many attempt suicide, many are sexually abused at the camps.

    For adults it’s just as bad, they constantly seek out “damaged goods” aka people with substance abuse issues or people who have a history of being abuse victims, they then convince these people that all those bad things happened because they are gay and i they get “treatment” they will be better.

    The APA classifies this torture as a reason.

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 12:08 pm - March 25, 2011

  35. Being Ex-gay is about as real as being “Ex-Black”

    Like many things, it comes down to definitions. If Gay and/or Black are labels about biology (e.g. skin genetics in the case of black, or brain structure in the case of gay), then of course one can’t be “ex” them, nor should one want to.

    But if they are cultural, behavioral or cultural labels, then of course one can be “ex” them. *IF* being gay means being politically Left, then I am arguably ex-gay and whether you label it that or not, it is real.

    You Dooms, would appear to be conflating biological identity with culture/behavior/political identity. MLK didn’t like people doing that. There is a name for people who do it. What could it be?

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 12:32 pm - March 25, 2011

  36. ILC, I have to admit I am amazed at your ability to twist my words around into something unrecognizable in order to fit the argument into your frame, really just classy stuff there. This has nothing to do with politics so for you to attempt to inject it into the conversation is not only sad, it shows that you know exactly how correct I am.

    Let me break it down, “Ex gay therapy” is the equivalent of letting a group of racists tell me that being black is a sin but I can be forgiven if I embrace the one true white Jesus and promise to live under and serve the rule of the master race.

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 1:16 pm - March 25, 2011

  37. And no ILC, it is you who are conflating biological identity with culture/behavior/political identity. You do this by creating a frame for an already established argument and then attempt to twist the argument to fit said frame.

    Just sayin.

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 1:20 pm - March 25, 2011

  38. Question, why do you jump down the throat of gay groups for something like this, yet you people seem to say nothing when Christian “Family” groups boycott business, run ridiculously anti gay campaigns,etc all while claiming gays aren’t really people?

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 1:28 pm - March 25, 2011

  39. You know, Dooms, you really are hilarious, given that you and your fellow Obama Party “real black people” call those black people who come from two-parent middle-class households “Uncle Toms” and insist that they’re not really black.

    That’s no surprise. People like yourself need the boogeyman of “racism” or “homophobia” to rationalize your failures. You won’t take any responsibility whatsoever for your behaviors. That’s why you attack any black person who is more successful than you are and try to undercut them by calling them ignorant and saying that they’re trying to suck up to whitey. It’s all about rationalizing your bad behavior as being beyond your control.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 1:40 pm - March 25, 2011

  40. After reading your exsperiences, especially David of N.O. growing up Gay, makes me appreciate my living so far back in the mountains at such a early date (75 years plus ago) when and where the word “queer” was ONLY used as an adjective. The first time that I encounted any thing different was at my induction into the army. At the very end of the line of doctors was seated the psychologist. As we sat down in front of his his fierst quextion was, ” Have you ever fucked?”. And if you did, “Did you like it?” Those questions irrated the guy in front of me so he yell, “Hell yes why do you think I did it for?”. The Head Shrinker wrote on his Card, “Egcristical”. I was next in line and he asked me if I was dateing. As I was thinking how to answer it, he yelled at me, “Yes of no!” I said, “No”, He wrote on my card, “Has no desire for women.” He started asking the guy behind me the same question that he did the guy in front but then he noticed that this guy prtended to be illiterate, he asked hime who the president was. The guy in a slow draw said, “I don’
    t know but they tell me that it is some damn dumb Roosevelt.” We were then swon into the the army except this guy was told to step asside.

    Comment by John Waggy — March 25, 2011 @ 1:40 pm - March 25, 2011

  41. And now, for Evan Hurst:

    I hear your pathetic self is still obsessed with me, on numerous websites. How’s that going for you? Surely, you’re not finding fulfillment. Get help.

    LOL, yup; I have been posting your official statements as made by you as a representative and spokesperson for Truth Wins Out and Wayne Besen on several websites.

    Actually, Bob, most “reasonable” people, if we’re using the word with a respect for its root word, “reason,” agree that there is no evidence for God’s existence, and thus no rational REASON to believe that any god or gods have determined ANYTHING, much less morality.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 27, 2010 @ 7:13 pm

    Hahahahaha, um. Dude. Seriously? No one in the history of the universe has ever been able to prove that the idea of “gods,” which have always been used to control populations, ever existed. It’s a ridiculous idea, created by uneducated nomads from thousands of years ago.
    GROW UP>
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 29, 2010 @ 4:13 am

    They all rank “10″ because they’re all retarded and none of them can be proven by any human who’s ever lived.
    God, your questions are really stupid.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 29, 2010 @ 4:29 am

    Bob. That means your god is a weak minded little bitch who changes his mind and is definitely NOT eternal or omnipotent. He’s merely a reflection of humanity’s most disgusting instincts.
    Grow the hell up.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 31, 2010 @ 4:20 am

    Of COURSE, their idea of god is as a serial rapist. Fundamentalist religious people ARE essentially battered wives. They just act it out on a grander scale without such visible bruises. The really screwed up thing is that their abuser is an imaginary friend.
    But it’s a rapist just the same.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 31, 2010 @ 4:22 am

    Ben, everything you said was spot on. Bob’s idea of “god” is a moral reprobate, and a child at that. I wouldn’t worship a sniveling ass like that if you paid me.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 31, 2010 @ 4:25 am

    For some reason, pointing out how Truth Wins Out, Ex-Gay Watch, and these other organizations that you represent are flat-out antireligious bigots and hatemongers really throws these websites into a frenzy of spinning and coverups. It also helps churches and churchgoing people recognize that gays and lesbians like you are completely hostile towards religion and religious beliefs — and that Wayne Besen is a total hypocrite.

    It’s funny watching the people like Michael Bussee who claim to be “Christian” reconcile their support and endorsement of Truth Wins Out and its flagrant antireligious bigotry with their own beliefs. They look like real hypocrites, and it also puts the lie to Wayne Besen’s claims that Truth Wins Out is not antireligious.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 1:50 pm - March 25, 2011

  42. Ah, those “ex-gay” groups. Gotta love ’em. What other enterprise, non-profit and otherwise, can have a failure rate as high as theirs and continue operating? A regular business with those figures would be shut down in a heartbeat.

    Comment by Jim Michaud — March 25, 2011 @ 1:50 pm - March 25, 2011

  43. Just sayin

    …nothing at all. What you said, Dooms, makes absolutely no sense.

    Look – I can see that your identity as a Black Victim and/or as a a Gay Victim is important to you. That you are going to argue for it. That you are going to bring it into every situation. That you look at the world in those terms.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 1:50 pm - March 25, 2011

  44. “Ex gay therapy” is the equivalent of letting a group of racists tell me that being black is a sin

    Have I disagreed? Have I in any way praiseed the ex-gay groups? (Hint: no)

    Look – I can see that your identity as a Black Victim and/or as a a Gay Victim is important to you. That you are going to argue for it. That you are going to bring it into every situation. That you look at the world in those terms. That you are even going to misinterpret and misrepresent what I said, to fit your narrow preconceptions.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 1:54 pm - March 25, 2011

  45. Sorry I made so many mistakes in typing. I did not learn to type in school because we only has one typewriter. Also my fingers are now getting old and cranky.

    Comment by John Waggy — March 25, 2011 @ 1:55 pm - March 25, 2011

  46. Oh white privilege you strike again. Any time an ethnic person references ethnicity or the effects it has had on their life, they must be a “victim”.

    You guys make being so much smarter than you epic fun.

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 2:13 pm - March 25, 2011

  47. Oh white privilege you strike again. Any time an ethnic person references ethnicity or the effects it has had on their life, they must be a “victim”.

    In your case, that’s absolutely true, Dooms, because you yourself say that black people who don’t blame racism for their problems are “ignorant” and you trash black people who actually live in two-parent, middle-class households as “Uncle Toms”.

    You use racism to rationalize all your problems and avoid any personal responsibility, just like a child.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 2:31 pm - March 25, 2011

  48. What other enterprise, non-profit and otherwise, can have a failure rate as high as theirs and continue operating? A regular business with those figures would be shut down in a heartbeat.

    Supposedly, Alcoholics Anonymous has a success rate in the low single digits — or, put differently, an astronomically high failure rate. Even the best of addiction treatment centers will point out that the relapse rate is between 50% – 90%.

    So really, in comparison, they’re not doing badly at all. Again, it depends on personal motivation.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 2:38 pm - March 25, 2011

  49. Lulz, anyone who is black has felt the sting of racism. Any black person who can’t admit that is ignorant.

    As for your other article I didn’t bother because I didn’t say it. My use of the phrase uncle tom is reserved for those that rather side with haters instead of using their heads. I’ve been called a “sellout” because I’m smart, wear clothing that fits, and don’t really listen to rap. but hey what would you know about the struggle of racial identity.

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 2:48 pm - March 25, 2011

  50. Dooms: You’re the one who misunderstood and misrepresented what I said, to fit your narrow preconceptions. If not fitting your narrow preconceptions (and not wanting to) is “white privilege” in your Orwellian, inverted lingo, then so be it. Suck on it.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 2:48 pm - March 25, 2011

  51. (continued) I mean, I already know that you *want* to feel that way. Go ahead, is what I’m saying.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 2:50 pm - March 25, 2011

  52. Its great because you guys are unprepared for this conversation.

    Let me help you out, look up a man named “Tim Wise”. You’re welcome.

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 3:04 pm - March 25, 2011

  53. Poor Dooms tries desperately to guilt us into accepting his poor victimhood. Sorry Dooms. I have full amnesty from your racist whining.

    Comment by The_Livewire — March 25, 2011 @ 3:09 pm - March 25, 2011

  54. And once again, Dooms, you state that anyone who DOESN’T think the way you do is ignorant.

    That shows very well your racist beliefs, Dooms. You believe that any black person who doesn’t think exactly the way that you do is “ignorant”. Whether they have been discriminated against or not doesn’t matter — you KNOW they have, and their beliefs, perceptions, and attitudes are irrelevant.

    You have generalized a person’s entire life experience based solely on their skin color. That is completely and totally racist, and shows your level of ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 3:12 pm - March 25, 2011

  55. Lol, oh god. Hey NDT take a sociology course, read over some social experiments.

    Get back to me when you have done some research, otherwise you are just another ignorant person subscribing to the perks of white privilege (ignorance being one of the biggest)

    http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2010/11/08/nr.wise.letter.intv.cnn

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 3:16 pm - March 25, 2011

  56. It is amusing watching Dooms make a fool of himself.

    He’s stuck trying to change the subject, since he’s hoist by his own words.

    It must be horrible for Dooms, y’know? He’s so obsessed with being oppressed that he can’t face the existance of powerful successful people who aren’t receiving ‘white privilege.’

    Clarent Thomas, doesn’t count. Allen West? Nope. Oprah? Must be a figment of his imagination.

    It takes *work* to be sucessful. It’s much easier to claim ‘da man’s out to get me’.

    Comment by The_Livewire — March 25, 2011 @ 3:24 pm - March 25, 2011

  57. Lol, oh god. Hey NDT take a sociology course, read over some social experiments.

    Is that all you’ve done? Then that would explain why you’re so completely uninformed, ignorant, AND racist.

    Problem here is that you’re being held accountable for your words, child. I’m also turning against you the fact that black people like yourself openly discriminate against and attack successful black people like Grant Hill and his parents, insisting that the only way you can be “authentically black” is to be a welfare-addicted failure from a broken home.

    You created the stereotype and the racism, Dooms. Problem is, you can’t function without either, because you need to be judged based on the color of your skin rather than the content of your character.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 3:36 pm - March 25, 2011

  58. In the great words of Bioware entertainment

    And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as “political correctness” if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority. They’re so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance. They don’t see anything wrong with having things set up to suit them, what’s everyone’s fuss all about? That’s the way it should be, any everyone else should be used to not getting what they want.

    http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6661775&lf=8

    Comment by Dooms — March 25, 2011 @ 3:39 pm - March 25, 2011

  59. Clarent Thomas, doesn’t count. Allen West? Nope. Oprah? Must be a figment of his imagination.

    Those are all race traitors and Uncle Toms to Dooms. Real black people are welfare addicts who scream racism and can never get anything done because whitey keeps them down.

    According to Dooms, the only way those folks succeeded was by acting white and sucking up to haters. None of them are authentically black like Dooms is.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 3:41 pm - March 25, 2011

  60. And if there is any doubt why such an opinion might be met with hostility, it has to do with privilege. You can write it off as “political correctness” if you wish, but the truth is that privilege always lies with the majority.

    And the reason Mommy and Daddy don’t always give you what you want and occasionally tell you you’re wrong is because they hate you. And of course they’ll deny that they hate you because they don’t want to be called haters, even though they are.

    Childish logic, Dooms. Typical of racists like yourself, who blame all white people for your problems and attack any black person who dares to disagree with you as being ignorant and not really black.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 3:44 pm - March 25, 2011

  61. And then this was really funny.

    They’re so used to being catered to that they see the lack of catering as an imbalance.

    Of course. That’s why racist black people like Dooms scream and cry when they have to take the same tests as white people and are subject to the same rules as white people. They’re so used to being catered to that they think NOT being catered to proves that you are a “racist”.

    Dooms wants special privileges based on his skin color, and he uses “white privilege” as a reason to rationalize why he should have them. That’s what this is all about, and that is why Dooms is so hostile to black people who demonstrate that it’s not racism, but his own laziness and irresponsibility, that keeps him in a bad situation.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 3:48 pm - March 25, 2011

  62. Dooms, the post you are quoting was in reference to a post by an individual who felt that a game team had created a product that appealed to only a small demographic of gamers and even within that demographic, there were those who would likely find it unsatisfactory. When I spend upwards of $60 on a product, it sure as anything better cater to me.

    What you quote is a good bit of spin though. Game companies are awesome at that, making statements that sound satisfyingly meaningful, but really don’t say all that much.

    To me what your quote boils down to is, ‘Yeah, you didn’t get what you wanted this time, but quit complaining because we gave some other people what they wanted.’

    Comment by Khepri — March 25, 2011 @ 4:17 pm - March 25, 2011

  63. And now, since Dooms has been suitably run off, let’s repost what Truth Wins Out and Ex-Gay Watch’s actual beliefs are, courtesy of their media spokesperson and Director of Social Media Evan Hurst.

    Actually, Bob, most “reasonable” people, if we’re using the word with a respect for its root word, “reason,” agree that there is no evidence for God’s existence, and thus no rational REASON to believe that any god or gods have determined ANYTHING, much less morality.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 27, 2010 @ 7:13 pm

    Hahahahaha, um. Dude. Seriously? No one in the history of the universe has ever been able to prove that the idea of “gods,” which have always been used to control populations, ever existed. It’s a ridiculous idea, created by uneducated nomads from thousands of years ago.
    GROW UP>
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 29, 2010 @ 4:13 am

    They all rank “10″ because they’re all retarded and none of them can be proven by any human who’s ever lived.
    God, your questions are really stupid.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 29, 2010 @ 4:29 am

    Bob. That means your god is a weak minded little bitch who changes his mind and is definitely NOT eternal or omnipotent. He’s merely a reflection of humanity’s most disgusting instincts.
    Grow the hell up.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 31, 2010 @ 4:20 am

    Of COURSE, their idea of god is as a serial rapist. Fundamentalist religious people ARE essentially battered wives. They just act it out on a grander scale without such visible bruises. The really screwed up thing is that their abuser is an imaginary friend.
    But it’s a rapist just the same.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 31, 2010 @ 4:22 am

    Ben, everything you said was spot on. Bob’s idea of “god” is a moral reprobate, and a child at that. I wouldn’t worship a sniveling ass like that if you paid me.
    Comment by Evan Hurst — May 31, 2010 @ 4:25 am

    Once one realizes that Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Michael Airhart, and the Truth Wins Out and Ex-Gay Watch organizations are really nothing more than antireligious bigots, their message seemingly becomes much less palatable.

    And when one also sees the endorsement of the Truth Wins Out organization of this type of speech, one realizes what Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, and the gay and lesbian community that supports them is actually posting and writing about anyone who disagrees with them — including troubled and confused teenagers.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 25, 2011 @ 4:33 pm - March 25, 2011

  64. STILL no explanation as to why the liberals have no problem with multiple apps by REAL gay murderers.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 25, 2011 @ 5:45 pm - March 25, 2011

  65. I have to admit, I’d never heard of Tim Wise, the guy Dooms mentioned above. All I have to say is…wow.

    Comment by Gene — March 25, 2011 @ 6:09 pm - March 25, 2011

  66. Tim Wise

    Who cares? Just because someone says pile-of-bullcrap X, doesn’t make it right. As Dooms gives us proof, daily.

    An idea has to stand on its own truth/logic. Not on whether someone says it, or who, or how many, etc.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 6:35 pm - March 25, 2011

  67. (continued) From what Wiki says, Tim Wise would appear to be a racist: someone who thinks in racial terms and advocates NON-racially aware policies, or a color-discriminating (as opposed to color-blind) society.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 6:43 pm - March 25, 2011

  68. Sorry typo, “… and advocates NON-racially -neutral- policies…”

    It’s hard to keep the positives and negatives and double-negatives all straight, when you’re dealing with people like Tim Wise and Dooms who advocate race-consciousness under a false banner of being anti-racist.

    My position is truly anti-racist: race is a false concept, it has only the tiniest smidgen of medical validity, and no other validity to speak of. Therefore, we should strive for a society wherer individuals are consistently judged by their qualities of character, not their alleged race.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 25, 2011 @ 10:10 pm - March 25, 2011

  69. As for Exodus, it’s up to Apple if they want to have it as an app. First they did because of support, and then they decided to remove it because of protests.Free market here.

    Is it free market or a tyrannical minority that believes they know what’s good for us and we’re too f*king stupid?

    Question, why do you jump down the throat of gay groups for something like this, yet you people seem to say nothing when Christian “Family” groups boycott business,

    Nothing? Are you sure about that?

    Boycotts still allow for freedom of choice. People can and usually do still patronize businesses which are being boycotted. Boycotts generally wind up hurting those whom are not the target and thus, for the most part, don’t work. Remember the black boycott of SC, a few years back? Wound up hurting black business owners more than anything.

    Also, boycotts generally don’t include fear and intimidation, unless it’s liberals behind the boycott. However, Change.org and their assorted brain-dead lemming retards removed choice from the marketplace “for the greater good”.

    That’s why the gay groups get the condemnation they rightly deserve and seem to demand.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — March 26, 2011 @ 12:17 am - March 26, 2011

  70. They are not ex-gay or gay, they are bisexual. That’s what it means to be attracted to members of both sexes.

    Comment by Karen — March 26, 2011 @ 3:21 am - March 26, 2011

  71. Is it free market or a tyrannical minority that believes they know what’s good for us and we’re too f*king stupid?

    TGC, it could be both, but it is definitely the former. One possibility. After the protest began, Apple executives researched Exodus themselves. They found them to creepy quacks (let’s face it, they are). So they felt ethically obligated to not have Exodus as one of their apps anymore. On the other hand, if they had no ethical problem with Exodus, then they made a business decision as to whether it would benefit them more to keep the app or to get rid of it. Now, this tyrannical minority might be small enough that such a decision actually will hurt Apple. Even in this case, they made a poor (but free) market decision to get rid of the app. If they see other cellphone companies use the app and sees their businesses skyrocket as a result, they may reverse their decision again.

    I’ve seen other times where a fringe group (with a belief I oppose) organizes a protest/boycott of a company who succumbed to the pressure. As much as I am angry with the group, it is their right. But I tend to get more pissed at the company for succumbing to the pressure.

    That’s why the gay groups get the condemnation they rightly deserve and seem to demand.

    And some so-con groups (see 2011 CPAC convention).

    Comment by Pat — March 26, 2011 @ 9:49 am - March 26, 2011

  72. 70.They are not ex-gay or gay, they are bisexual. That’s what it means to be attracted to members of both sexes.

    Karen, I imagine some of Exodus’s clients are bisexual and want to suppress or eliminate same sex attractions, but that’s not usually the case. It is usually persons who are gay. Some of whom haven’t had sex with men, while others have. Some may have had sex with women, but the sex didn’t click like it did with men.

    “Ex-gay” is a label for those who believe that they have been able to suppress their homosexual attraction enough so that they believe they can have a romantic relationship with a woman. Unfortunately, the reality is they are still sexually attracted to men and not to women.

    Comment by Pat — March 26, 2011 @ 9:56 am - March 26, 2011

  73. […] Obsession & Intolerance […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » On lesbian bed death and ex-gays — March 26, 2011 @ 6:45 pm - March 26, 2011

  74. Just a quick little hello from my parents and I, to help some of you with your own families.

    Remember to remind your family that LGBT Equality is important. Promote Equality for LGBT people, every day.

    Comment by Little_Kiwi — March 27, 2011 @ 11:40 am - March 27, 2011

  75. How can you be so unbelievably obtuse

    I mean Jesus Christ, JEWS don’t hate themselves this much

    Comment by Jack Elam — March 27, 2011 @ 12:47 pm - March 27, 2011

  76. Jack, please do tell us how you reach the conclusion that we are so, as you put it, “unbelievably obtuse” and how you reach the conclusion, based on the post to which you attach your comment, that we hate ourselves so much.

    And please make sure to acknowledge the point I made above about the strange obsessions of ex-gays!

    Thanks!

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — March 27, 2011 @ 1:04 pm - March 27, 2011

  77. I mean Jesus Christ, JEWS don’t hate themselves this much

    1. Post under your real name, Levi.

    2. Why all caps on JEWS? Are we having a hissy-fit? Da Jooos are in a self-loathing contest? Where is it being held? Can we see a copy of the rules book? Who is the referee? (Can a Joo ref a Joo self-loathing contest?)

    3. Is this Jesus Christ the King of the Jews or is he your favorite mythical concept hiding behind a rock waiting to see his shadow?

    4. Do you and The Auntie of All Venom have Terrets Syndrome or can you attach meaning to your out-bursts?

    Comment by Heliotrope — March 27, 2011 @ 6:54 pm - March 27, 2011

  78. Apple isn’t a “private company” as the term of art is commonly used. Koch Industries is a private company. Apple is a public company — publicly held — and is answerable to shareholders and the public, so its behavior is likely to be swayed by public action.

    Misunderstanding this isn’t the heart of this post’s fallacy, but I thought I would mention it. Anyone who also doesn’t understand the anti-humane aspects of anti-gay ‘therapy’ needs to review the Prop 8 trial transcript. This kind of torture does not belong in the public sphere, certainly not on anyone’s iPhone.

    Comment by Teddy Partridge — March 27, 2011 @ 9:55 pm - March 27, 2011

  79. Wonder Teddy if you actually read the post to which you attach your comment.

    First, just because Apple is a publicly-traded company does not make it public in the sense a government institution is. And is why I called it private above. While shareholders buy their stake in the company in a public market, they choose to do so freely and are not compelled to participate.

    That said, if there is a fallacy in this post, as your suggest, please identify it. Do hope you realize that I am critical her of the ex-gay ministries (but they’re not anti-gay as you claim).

    Oh and Jack, seems you’re suggesting that Jews in general hate themselves. . .

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — March 28, 2011 @ 1:15 am - March 28, 2011

  80. Well in Jack’s defense… ‘dem joooooossssss’ do vote overwhelmingly Democrat…

    Comment by The_Livewire — March 28, 2011 @ 7:50 am - March 28, 2011

  81. “Is it free market or a tyrannical minority that believes they know what’s good for us and we’re too f*king stupid?”

    It’s the free market at work. Apple balanced the potential revenue from the app against the potential lost business from those opposed to it. It’s basic cost-benefit analysis.

    Comment by D.F. Manno — March 28, 2011 @ 9:40 pm - March 28, 2011

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