GayPatriot

The Internet home for American gay conservatives.

Can this post-partisan president speak without attacking?

by

I was traveling most of yesterday, experiencing a story which would warm the cockles of Bruce’s heart, being three hours delayed out of LAX and just missing a connection in Philadelphia, so I also missed all the hullabaloo over the president’s budget speech.

But, what has struck me in reading about it is that instead of making the case for his do-over budget, he had to set it up as an us vs. them scenario, demonizing Republican solutions.  He seems he would have done better to make the case for his plan and then said something like, “I know the Republicans have put forward a different plan.  Yes, we see things differently, but I’m optimistic that we can work together and resolve our differences.”

As law professor William A. Jacobson puts it:

This was a moment when Obama could have proven that he was the uniter he claimed to be not a divider, when he could have set forth an alternative plan without demeaning Republicans.  No one could have expected Obama to stand there and say that he would agree to the Ryan plan, but no one should have expected a full frontal assault on the motives and humanity of those with whom he has policy disagreements.  If Obama had signaled a readiness to reach across the aisle, to seek common ground without guaranteeing an outcome, he would have been presidential.  Instead, there were just a few throw away lines about compromise at the end of a long screed.

The editorial board of the Wall Street Journal were no less harsh:

Did someone move the 2012 election to June 1? We ask because President Obama’s extraordinary response to Paul Ryan’s budget yesterday—with its blistering partisanship and multiple distortions—was the kind Presidents usually outsource to some junior lieutenant. Mr. Obama’s fundamentally political document would have been unusual even for a Vice President in the fervor of a campaign.

Mr. Obama did not deign to propose an alternative to rival Mr. Ryan’s plan, even as he categorically rejected all its reform ideas, repeatedly vilifying them as essentially un-American. “Their vision is less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America,” he said, supposedly pitting “children with autism or Down’s syndrome” against “every millionaire and billionaire in our society.” The President was not attempting to join the debate Mr. Ryan has started, but to close it off just as it begins and banish House GOP ideas to political Siberia.

The president may be Just Plain Bad At Politics (via Instapundit) but it seems to be the only game he plays.

UPDATE (also via Instapundit):  Charles Krauthammer thought the speech “was a disgrace“:

“I rarely heard a speech by a president so shallow, so hyper-partisan and so intellectually dishonest, outside the last couple of weeks of a presidential election where you are allowed to call your opponent anything short of a traitor. But, we’re a year-and-a-half away from Election Day and it was supposed to be a speech about policy. He didn’t even get to his own alternative until more than halfway through the speech. And when he did, he threw out numbers suspended in mid-air with nothing under them with all kinds of goals and guidelines and triggers that mean nothing. The speech was really about and entirely an attack on the [Rep. Paul] Ryan plan.”

Comments

  1. Obama’s just tossing red meat (tofurkey?) to the Nanny NAMBLA’s, Levis, MoveOnsters, HuffPuffsters, and MSDNCiacs that make up his base. His speech was chock-full of attack politics, fear mongering, and blame-throwing. But what was conspicuously absent? An actual plan for reducing the deficit. Yes, he threw out gutting defense and raising taxes on the hated rich … again, tofurkey for the base… but anyone with even a basic understanding of math (i.e., his non-base) knows that these would not come close to closing the massive deficit.

    Oh, yeah, and he said he wanted to appoint another deficit reduction commission. Didn’t he just ignore the recommendations of the last deficit reduction commission? Do people really fall for this crap?

    How the heck anyone with an IQ above room temperature can support this pathetic worthless president is beyond my ken.

  2. But isn’t Obama supposed to be one of the most eloquent men ever? Capable of delivering speeches so profound and moving that they will undoubtedly go down in history next to Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address in how much of an impact they have on our country?

    Auntie Dogma, quickly, come tell us ignorant conservatives why we are too stupid to see the beauty and true uplifting meaning of what the President has said.

  4. I began to watch and could not abide more than a few minutes. Never, that I can remember, have I not listened to my President on such a momentous topic. At first I felt ashamed for being so partisan and then I felt deceived at being lured into a red meat campaign diatribe and sales pitch for socialism as a cure all. It Takes a National Government to Organize Your Day; what a book! I can only guess that this desperate man is doubling down and going full steam ahead because it is all about him and the nation is way down the list of priorities.

  6. President Obama has been advocating taxing the “rich” for his pet government programs since 2006; he just changed the context to deficit spending. The substance remains the SOS of Socialism. His speech was a disaster.

  7. “The fact is, [the Republican] vision is less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America. There’s nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires.” – the Obama we thought we were getting

    I didn’t watch the speech. I watched a baseball game instead.

    I’ve had it with Obama’s attempts at bipartisanship with the right wing and your teavangelical allies. From the get go in 2009, Obama made the mistake of trying to work with the GOP to fix the mess in which the Bush II regime left this country. I expected more of the same “let’s make nice with the deficit-loving wingnuts who got us into this mess.”

    At least the gloves came off a little, certainly enough to rattle the cages of the reich’s leading dim bulbs.

    Hopefully Obama has seen the light and this was not just sugar-coated rhetoric. There can be compromise with the Reaganite insanity. The right wing has done done enough harm to this country.

  8. Thank you for the transmission from bizzaro world Granny.

    Here on Earth Prime the Republicans were shut out from 2008-2011. Now that they actually control half of a branch of Government (or 1/3 the branches of government if you’re a Democrat) Obama can’t rule by fiat.

    Poor baby. Elections have consequences

  9. LOL, how about a nice little slap of reality, Auntie Dogma?

    The United States of America has about 400 billionaires. Moore calls them “400 little Mubaraks.” About half of those have less than $2 billion each, and those with a net worth in the double-digit billions is an exclusive club of about 30.

    Still, as Moore says, “there’s a ton of cash out there.”

    The grand total of the combined net worth of every single one of America’s billionaires is roughly $1.3 trillion. It does indeed sound like a “ton of cash” until one considers that the 2011 deficit alone is $1.6 trillion. So, if the government were to simply confiscate the entire net worth of all of America’s billionaires, we’d still be $300 billion short of making up this year’s deficit.

    Now, Dogma, we understand that both you and Obama are intellectual cripples who think the country’s taxpayers are just like your parents — you overspend, they bail you out.

    But here’s the reality. They CAN’T bail you out. There isn’t enough money left to bail the country out of the cost of the welfare checks that you and Black Narcissus blew and want to blow on cigarettes and Cheetos. The house is triple-mortgaged, the car was repossessed, and between the garage sale and eBay, the house is stripped bare.

    So all you and your little Obama are doing is screaming and throwing a temper tantrum, hoping that your parents will lose their sanity and give you even more money to waste.

    Ain’t happening. The country has finally hit the point where the screaming unproductive like yourself have leeched it completely dry. To meet your demands, the country will either default, which will immediately destroy any ability it has to get any more money, or hyperinflate, which means it will destroy what money it has left.

    You and Obama don’t get this because you are infantile brats who have been raised on a diet of ideology-based and reality-deficient Marxism.

  10. I love Obama’s speech because it is a clear and powerful demonstration of what I/we already knew, that he only cares about these things:
    – Raising spending, expanding government
    – Raising taxes
    – Partisanship.

  12. One other thing NDT, you could confiscate all the wealth in America and spread it equally among everybody. Within ten years, the poor again still be poor, and the rich would again be rich…. mostly.

    Being poor is a condition, being in poverty is a mindset.

  15. In that spirit, Eric, I sure wish Alex Rodriguez would knock up one of Obama’s daughters.

    Hey, it’s a joke. What, no sense of humor?

    BTW, M’Chel Obama… what a tw-t.

    Ain’t civility wonderful?

  18. Dan – The answer to your headline question is “NO”. Obama is always an attack dog, has no idea what humility is, and (according to this week’s Gallup survey) THE MOST polarizing President in our lifetime.

  22. Long answer: no. Obama has no leadership or management experience to guide him in situations that don’t involve playing golf or partying on the public’s dime ($6.50 adjusted for inflation).

  23. The speech did not backfire. It laid out exactly what he wanted. The socialist utopia he desires by penalizing success.

    “The fact is, [the Republican] vision is less about reducing the deficit than it is about changing the basic social compact in America.”

    The socialist compact. The compact that Americans trust the government to take care of every aspect of their lives. That may be the compact between the Democratic party and the poor victims that vote them in. Hope and change, the carrot dangled and never obtained. Freedom and personal responsibility have no part of the compact, except to surrender more money when you are successful.

    The speech was perfect. The campaign slogans written for Republicans and the Tea Party, along with nice, big, fat policy targets to easily prove just how unAmerican the modern Democrat party is.

  24. Dan, these posts you make on this subject are terrible and need to stop. Politicians should be attacking their opponents and the policies that they oppose. That’s kind of the point. You get all indignant about this stuff, yet none of it is inappropriate. If someone is putting forth suggestions and ideas that you consider ridiculous and unfeasible, why shouldn’t you bluntly and directly argue against it?

  26. The problem with Obama’s so-called deficit speech was it was deficient in substance & filled with political nothings for his 2012 campaign; therefore, it is one big boomerang coming back while Obama looks away at his teleprompter for guidance. Why does this speech sound so familiar? Oh yes, Obama’s been saying this crap for the past 4 years. Putting a deficit context would not fool anyone paying attention.

  27. It is always amusing when a pipsqueak comment-troll lectures the blogger on what he should and should not post about.

    I’m just saying. Dan makes this same post every couple of weeks, and its premise is so stupid that it undermines his credibility. Dan thinks it’s inappropriate for Democrats to attack Republicans, but launches his own attacks against Democrats every day. It’s a glaring double standard and it doesn’t make any sense. Politics is about confrontation and devising arguments against your adversaries and their ideas – complaining about that and asking for your side to be exempted from it is childish and boring.

  28. @ Levi,

    You wrote that “[p]olitics is about confrontation and devising arguments against your adversaries and their ideas…” No, it is not. Politics are the activities associated with governance, and are accomplished the relationship between opposing philosophies.

    The President could have been a leader, complimenting Mr. Ryan for his initiative, and while Obama may disagree with specifics, there is room to negotiate a solution acceptable to all.

    But he didn’t do that, did he?

    He attacked. He quibbled. He lied. That isn’t politics. In the important matter of financing the governance of the Nation, our President rejected outright his responsibility to provide leadership.

    We call such men cowards. The President’s display of conviction was a display of hatred toward the loyal opposition (think Tunisia or Code Pink when thinking of a disloyal opposition). The President, having set his opening gambit as hatred for the GOP as human beings and contempt for the ideas that could be brought forward, the President has broadcast that he will not negotiate.

    Obama’s cowardice, hatred, and foolish despite of this Nation is always worthy of blog posts, and commentary.

    And, thank you Bruce and Dan for the opportunity to post on your site.

  29. #24: “If someone is putting forth suggestions and ideas that you consider ridiculous and unfeasible, why shouldn’t you bluntly and directly argue against it?”

    Levi,
    Because Obama’s speech was the first time he’s been forced to even acknowledge that there might, possibly, if-you-believe-in-those-sort-of-things, a DEBT/DEFICIT/SPENDING problem that must be addressed now (versus after his reelection when he can go back to pretending it doesn’t exist). Obama’s earlier proposed “what-debt-problem?” budget runs an annual deficit of $1.6 trillion and as far as he was concerned, that would be the end of it. House and Senate Democrats have been equally dismissive of acknowledging THE VERY IDEA that we are spending too much. In contrast, House Republicans are at least working on the issue short-term, and Ryan’s proposed budget is an attempt to reduce deficit spending over the long-term.

    Thus, if there is a single issue that could have benefitted from a cooperative approach by the CIC, this is it. But as with all big issues lately (gas prices, Libya,…) Obama is pissed that he is being forced to (belatedly) address it at all. So, arriving late to the discussion (as always), Obama did nothing more original or “transformative” than pick up the baton from Pelosi/Slaughter/Reid, etc. and double-down on all the pathetic, disgusting, and pointless demagoguery we’ve been hearing for over a week.

    This is no surprise to us conservatives, of course, but I’m glad Dan continues to point it out here at GayPatriot.net because it highlights AGAIN how politically naive, ignorant, and stupid people like you and Auntie Dogma are for falling under the spell of the man who said these words:

    “In this country, we rise or fall as one nation, as one people. Let’s resist the temptation to fall back on the same partisanship and pettiness and immaturity that has poisoned our politics for so long.”–Election Victory Speech

    “So we have a choice to make. We can once again let Washington’s bad habits stand in the way of progress. Or we can pull together and say that in America, our destiny isn’t written for us but by us. We can place good ideas ahead of old ideological battles, and a sense of purpose above the same narrow partisanship. We can act boldly to turn crisis into opportunity and, together, write the next great chapter in our history and meet the test of our time.”–The Washington Post (February 5, 2009)

    “Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many.
They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America — they will be met. On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.
On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.”–Inaugural Address

  30. Is Levi really so f*king stupid that he doesn’t remember his dear reader campaigning on being above the partisanship? Or is it that he’s very much aware that Chairman Obama’s a lying sack of crap but he attacks Dan for pointing it out?

    I’m really curious.

  31. TGC,
    Levi’s not stupid. He’s a liar. He knows exactly why Dan’s posts concerning Obama’s nakedly partisan attacks are relevant (in themselves), but having no intellectually honest argument to explain away the Divider-In-Chief’s hypocrisy and failed leadership, he pretends as though Obama is just another DC politician and that his job is to engage in partisan attacks on his political adversaries. Levi wrongfully insists that Dan is applying a double standard to Obama (that only Republicans are allowed to attack Democrats), assuming Dan’s argument is the strawman Levi has constructed for him. Levi’s full of sh*t and he knows it.

    Levi IS, however, stupid enough that he doesn’t see the double standard he is implicitly advocating with his nonsense.

    Levi voted for the man who made the statements in speeches that I quoted above (#29). Levi believed all of it. Levi, like all the other “believers” called anyone who didn’t believe racists, homophobes, h8ers, imbeciles, rednecks, lunatics, etc. Now, over 2 years later, Levi’s messiah has shown himself to be: a liar, a hypocrite, an ideologue, an elitist, a bigot, a poor diplomat, lazy, and of questionable intelligence. His performance as President has been profoundly bad to the point where he consistently seems to do whatever is literally the WORST course of action in every situation. But Levi, justifiably humiliated for having been fooled by yet ANOTHER left-wing charlatan that he elevated to minor deity status, wants Obama treated like just another DC politician.

    Consequently, Levi is the one advocating double standards because he doesn’t think Obama should be held accountable for the things that he said and did while campaigning for the Presidency and the things he’s said and done since. It’s no different than the same double standard liberals want applied to every Democrat, but with Obama it’s even more repugnant because any resistance to treating him differently than other politicians results in accusations of racism and bigotry.

    So, in response to your question, YES, Levi is “fu*king stupid” but he’s also a huge liar to boot.

  32. Is Levi really so f*king stupid that he doesn’t remember his dear reader campaigning on being above the partisanship?

    Democrats are pretty much OK with their politicians lying. They know few Democrats can be honest about their agenda and get elected. The ends, in their view, justify the means.

    It’s also classic for Democrats to run against the problem they created. The hyper-partisan atmosphere under Bush was entirely a creation of the left. And then Obama… who now, BTW, admits that his vote against raising the debt ceiling as a senator was a purely partisan act… ran against the partisan divide created by his own party.

  33. Actually it’s simpler than that. Levi can’t debate on facts. He’s allergic to them. So he wants to control what people say.

    Sorry Levi, you want to control the debate, start your own blog. Then you can censor to your hearts content. Dan & Bruce and the rest of us aren’t going to let you drag us kicking and screaming into your future.

  34. Dan, these posts you make on this subject are terrible and need to stop.

    Really, how pathetic can one get? Levi is chained to a chair and forced to read this blog and it is making his alleged mind explode.

    Dan, Dan, Dan stop these terrible posts, you are torturing Levi. Yeah, that’s the ticket, you are committing worse than waterboarding, Dan. You have abrogated the Geneva Convention accords on torture, you must cease and desist in the name of humanity and common decency.

    Oh, the horror of it. Don’t force Levi to use his super powers of intellect on you. Oh, the carnage! What shall we do if Levi is prodded into deploying his secret weapons of logic, rhetoric, oratory and clever wit?

    I stutter and shudder at the very thought of it.

  35. Levi can’t debate on facts. He’s allergic to them. So he wants to control what people say.

    A most astute observation, Livewire.

    Levi is, of course, free to stop reading this blog at any time. As a masochist, he must simply enjoy being intellectually outclassed on a daily basis.

  36. I really hate it when I wake up and Levi is still alive…

    Or is it, I really wish Levi’s mom had used Planned Parenthood?

    I’m having trouble keeping up with this “new civility.”

  37. Meh, you’re all a bunch of prissy children that take offense when anyone says anything less than glowingly positive about conservatives and your stupid ideas. Of course, no one in the conservative movement is trying to bring about an end to partisanship, are they?

    Just stop crying. I really don’t know what else to say. Stop being so hyper sensitive. You have these little fits because someone mildly criticized your ideology? Given the choice between defending Paul Ryan’s plan with serious arguments and just bitching about how insulted you feel by Obama, you’ve understandably done the latter because Ryan’s plan is ridiculously indefensible and because conservatives like to feel as though they’re put upon. Sobbing and flailing is easier than articulating and arguing, and so here we are.

    I haven’t seen anybody here specify what exactly Obama said that is so outrageous and inappropriate. Would anyone care to respond to what he actually said, or shall we just continue to make this about his personality?

  38. I haven’t seen anybody here specify what exactly Obama said that is so outrageous and inappropriate.

    I’d start with the Oath of Office, you petulant little child.

  39. Isn’t it funny to watch Levi throw his screaming and crying tantrums trying to get people to shut up?

    Isn’t it amazing how Levi provides no facts, no intelligent argument, no nothing and just yells for people to stop talking?

    Isn’t it entertaining how Levi is projecting onto everyone else his hypersensitivity, whining, and crying?

  41. #37: “Of course, no one in the conservative movement is trying to bring about an end to partisanship, are they?”

    Levi, unlike Obama, no one in the conservative movement is narcissistic enough to claim he has the ability to bring about an end to partisanship.

  42. no one in the conservative movement is narcissistic enough to claim he has the ability to bring about an end to partisanship.

    HEY! Don’t forget about that whole, “lowering the oceans” thing….

    That was classic bullshit there, man.

  44. So, the dimwit finds nothing offensive about the President’s speech?

    Nothing offensive about calling Republicans unpatriotic for wanting to reform Medicare. Nothing offensive about raw demagoguery such as “(The Republican) vision that says up to 50 million Americans have to lose their health insurance in order for us to reduce the deficit. And who are those 50 million Americans? Many are someone’s grandparents who wouldn’t be able afford nursing home care without Medicaid. Many are poor children. Some are middle-class families who have children with autism or Down’s syndrome. Some are kids with disabilities so severe that they require 24-hour care. These are the Americans we’d be telling to fend for themselves.”

    The forgoing is not only offensive, it is an outright lie. People are not being cut loose to “fend for themselves” by the Republican budget reforms. Ryan is proposing changes in the method of disbursement while maintaining the level of benefit. Obama is a liar and an asshole. And so is Levi. There, I said it.

    The president went on to call Republicans cowardly, corrupt, and unpatriotic. “There’s nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. There’s nothing courageous about asking for sacrifice from those who can least afford it and don’t have any clout on Capitol Hill. And this is not a vision of the America I know.”

  45. Of course Levi’s pathetic attempt to control debate (on someone else’s blog even) gets more laughable with every post.

    “Meh, you’re all a bunch of prissy children” says the child who won’t look at facts, can’t admit when he’s wrong, and won’t even reply to people who show just how ill informed he is.

    “I haven’t seen anybody here specify what exactly Obama said that is so outrageous and inappropriate.” It must be hard to be illiterate. Does Levi use a text reader?

    Mona Charen points out the ‘blame Bush’ rote

    B.O “America’s finances were in great shape by the year 2000. We went from deficit to surplus. America was actually on track to becoming completely debt-free, and we were prepared for the retirement of the Baby Boomers. But after Democrats and Republicans committed to fiscal discipline during the 1990s, we lost our way in the decade that followed.”

    Reality:
    In 1994, to cite just one warning that predated the Bush bogeyman presidency, President Clinton’s bipartisan Commission on Entitlement and Tax Reform reported that Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and civilian and military pensions would exceed total federal revenues by 2030. We know today that things are worse. The American Enterprise Institute’s Andrew Biggs reminds us that “the joke among entitlement analysts is that the government will eventually turn into a pension plan with an army.” -Mona Charon

    “And the degree of the mendacity of this — he gave the impression that what the Republicans are proposing is to change Medicare today. It won’t affect the seniors alive today anyway. It won’t affect anybody — under the Ryan Republican proposal — it won’t affect anybody under the age of 55. But he [Obama] made it sound like your granny is under attack.” Charles Krauthammer

    And this:
    ‘”“We just need to eliminate waste and abuse!” The implication is that that tackling the deficit issue won’t require tough choices.’ -Barack Hussein Obama

    “Already, the reforms we passed in the health care law will reduce our deficit by $1 trillion. My approach would build on these reforms. We will reduce wasteful subsidies and erroneous payments.” – In the same speech.

    So even the President criticizes his own speech.

    Now hush Levi, adults are speaking.

  47. Obama went on to claim Republicans would turn the USA into a Third World Country Imagine that! America, a Third World Country, with a massive debt overload, a currency that was rapidly losing its value, a thoroughly corrupt court system that only served the ruling party, election fraud on a massive scale, a massive state bureaucracy used to primarily to hand out favors to cronies, a ruling class only concerned about its own power and privilege, nationalized industries, and a Government that siphons taxpayer money to pay off a few chosen plutocrats.

    Yes, it sure would be terrible if America sunk to that level.

  49. #48: “(My apologies to roaches for the comparison)”

    Well, I should think so. The time between roaches being exposed to light and those same roaches being safely behind walls and under floorboards can be measured in nanoseconds. It’s remarkable. That’s why they will survive WWIII along with Cher.

    Levi, on the other hand, gets unceremoniously and unequivocally exposed for his dishonest nonsense, but then stands around defiantly long enough for 3-4 of us to squish him into the linoleum. It’s remarkably sad.

  50. Would anyone care to respond to what he actually said….

    Sure, Levi. What did he say? You lay it out point by point and I will dismantle it point by point.

    Your turn, chucklehead. (Please don’t overlook his skillful diplomacy regarding Paul Ryan whom he personally invited to attend so Ryan could get the message up close and personal.)

  51. @ Sebastian Shaw; I’ll go you one better. Obama couldn’t lead a hungry dog to food in an overstocked butcher shop. Our erstwhile pres–ent(the no ‘i.d.’ is deliberate) is political anti- matter. Everything he endorses , founders.He’s the destructor of the Democrat Party, at least, if not the Nation.

  52. Our erstwhile pres–ent(the no ‘i.d.’ is deliberate) is political anti- matter.

    And he sure as heck knows where SEL-ma is when it’s convenient. Hillary does a better urban accent then the Mocha Messiah does!

  53. So, the dimwit finds nothing offensive about the President’s speech?

    Nothing offensive about calling Republicans unpatriotic for wanting to reform Medicare. Nothing offensive about raw demagoguery such as “(The Republican) vision that says up to 50 million Americans have to lose their health insurance in order for us to reduce the deficit. And who are those 50 million Americans? Many are someone’s grandparents who wouldn’t be able afford nursing home care without Medicaid. Many are poor children. Some are middle-class families who have children with autism or Down’s syndrome. Some are kids with disabilities so severe that they require 24-hour care. These are the Americans we’d be telling to fend for themselves.”

    The forgoing is not only offensive, it is an outright lie. People are not being cut loose to “fend for themselves” by the Republican budget reforms. Ryan is proposing changes in the method of disbursement while maintaining the level of benefit. Obama is a liar and an asshole. And so is Levi. There, I said it.

    The president went on to call Republicans cowardly, corrupt, and unpatriotic. “There’s nothing serious about a plan that claims to reduce the deficit by spending a trillion dollars on tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. There’s nothing courageous about asking for sacrifice from those who can least afford it and don’t have any clout on Capitol Hill. And this is not a vision of the America I know.”

    Ho-hum.

    You’re offended by that? What? How? How is it possible for a human being to take personal offense to this?

    Ryan’s plan is complete bullshit. They proposed it with the understanding that it would never have a chance of being implemented, and that it would be met with derision from liberals and intelligent people. That last part is especially important and is really what all of this boils down to. Republicans endear themselves to the conservative base with these kinds of absurd theatrics, and when Democrats and liberals correctly criticize this stuff as a sideshow, you guys get irrationally offended. You love them more and you hate us more. That is the one and only reason that the Paul Ryan Budget Plan exists.

    And before you start whining about other people impugning your patriotism because you support insane ideas that would ruin the country – let’s all fondly remember the time that the Republicans invaded Iraq, started torturing people, and said about anyone who thought this was a bad idea, “You don’t support the troops!” or “You want to coddle the terrorists!” or “You blame America first!” Mind you, I was never offended by any of this stuff, because how offended can you get when a warmonger is coming at you with a bunch of ridiculous, made-up bullshit?

  54. Sure, Levi. What did he say? You lay it out point by point and I will dismantle it point by point.

    Your turn, chucklehead. (Please don’t overlook his skillful diplomacy regarding Paul Ryan whom he personally invited to attend so Ryan could get the message up close and personal.)

    If you really wanted to respond, I would imagine you could handle finding a transcript of his speech on your own. If all you’re interested in is games, you can go play with yourself.

  56. And it’s funny for the left to be shrieking (girlishly) that the Ryan plan isn’t really a plan when the House has already voted on and passed it. Meanwhile, the Democrats have put forth … nothing. Obama wants another Debt Commission… after completely ignoring the last debt commission. He wants the productive to be punished and defense to be gutted… but that’s the same thing he’s always wanted. Neither will address the structural problem of Deficits and Debt.

  57. So screaming pissy Levi has no facts, no argument, and instead whines and cries rather than presenting actual points for argument.

    Sounds just like his Barack Obama. Which is likely why Levi is such a staunch supporter of Barack Obama and why Barack Obama represents Levi and Levi’s level of debate and intelligence.

  58. The Republicans are at least being somewhat honest about the amount of cuts that have to be made to restore some semblance of fiscal sanity. (The 300B deficits of the Bush Era look pretty sweet right now.) The Obamacrats are being completely dishonest about the amount of taxation that would be necessary to close the deficit; an 80-90% tax increase on all income levels.

  59. *yawn* And thus when given facts and examples, Levi still can’t address them.

    Hush Levi, adults are talking.
    (Oh, and Ryan’s budget passed the house, so much for not having a chance of passing)

  61. And it’s funny for the left to be shrieking (girlishly) that the Ryan plan isn’t really a plan when the House has already voted on and passed it. Meanwhile, the Democrats have put forth … nothing. Obama wants another Debt Commission… after completely ignoring the last debt commission. He wants the productive to be punished and defense to be gutted… but that’s the same thing he’s always wanted. Neither will address the structural problem of Deficits and Debt.

    So I assert that the Ryan plan has no chance of passing, and the sophisticated GayPatriot argument offered in response is to say that it passed in the House!

    As is so often the case, the conservative answer is to mumble some semantic nonsense and play stupid.

    You know, in some alternate universe somewhere, a cleverer Obama than our own is addressing the nation and saying the following, “Okay GOP, you want to implement the Ryan plan? You got it. I’ll help work it through the Senate, and I’ll sign it into law, and get working on implementing it right away. This way, the people of the country will have the Republican Party to thank exclusively for the state of the economy and of healthcare. Deal?”

    The Republicans wouldn’t do it. They know it’s a stunt and they recognize that the premise of the plan is based on magical presumptions. They’d triple the deficit before they wanted to be held accountable to the voting public with that plan.

  64. Levitoid @#55:

    I would imagine you could handle finding a transcript of his speech on your own.

    Levitoid @#37:

    I haven’t seen anybody here specify what exactly Obama said that is so outrageous and inappropriate. Would anyone care to respond to what he actually said….

    Well, Levitoid, why can’t you tell us what Obama said that is not outrageous and/or inappropriate. After all, you are the scold here.

    I offered to respond to what he actually said. You told me to go play with myself. Fine. You see, I can not find anything he said that remotely resembles a plan for saving the entitlements and the economy and the country at the same time.

    Neither can you. He is your fool and you are stuck with defending him. So far, you have only managed to pout about how you can’t hit the ball because the sun is in your eyes and people aren’t playing fair and you have to go home because your mommy is calling you.

    Perhaps if you stopped slapping your ears and chanting “I can’t hear you,” you could earn the right to sit in the back of the room and have quality time with the Play Doh. Perhaps not. You may have congenital problems we don’t know about.

  66. The Democrats will think they are s-o-o-o-o clever on this Texas nomination that NDT links to @ #66.

    The way they see it, it will force the Republicans to make an issue of the
    Democrat definition of torture and Abu Ghraib or to tip-toe past it. Luckily, the Democrat hierarchy has said enough damning stuff about Abu Ghraib and about its commander, that all the Republicans have to do is quote them and quote them and quote them some more. “This is what Patrick Leahy said of Sanchez: (“…soundbite….”) Why would Patrick Leahy now like to have Sanchez as a fellow Senator and Democrat decision maker?”

  67. Well, Levitoid, why can’t you tell us what Obama said that is not outrageous and/or inappropriate. After all, you are the scold here.

    But I have told you. None of it is outrageous or inappropriate. My post at #24: You get all indignant about this stuff, yet none of it is inappropriate. Maybe you missed it?

    What’s with the silly games, Heliotrope? It’s absolutely crystal clear that my position is that Obama’s statements were not inappropriate, and if you disagree with that, then it follows that you should be the one to specify exactly what parts of Obama’s speech you find so wholly offensive to your conservative sensibilites. Asking me to tell you what parts of the speech aren’t offensive is a stall tactic that doesn’t make sense – again, my position is clearly that none of it offensive. From being someone that used to be worth talking to around here, you’re rapidly morphing into one of these bottom-feeding droogs that only wants to comment on my personality defects that you think you can detect through the internet.

    I’m the scold? You guys are the ones having the vapors over this stuff.

    I offered to respond to what he actually said. You told me to go play with myself. Fine. You see, I can not find anything he said that remotely resembles a plan for saving the entitlements and the economy and the country at the same time.

    Offering to respond to what he said is not the same as, like… you know, responding. For the love of God, just get to it already, well ya?

    And before you continue trying to change the subject, Obama’s lack of a plan for repairing the economy is a seperate issue. What we were talking about in this thread, if you hadn’t noticed, was how offensive and inappropriate the president’s remarks are. Do you care to comment on that, or would you prefer to avoid commiting to an argument?

    Neither can you. He is your fool and you are stuck with defending him. So far, you have only managed to pout about how you can’t hit the ball because the sun is in your eyes and people aren’t playing fair and you have to go home because your mommy is calling you.

    Perhaps if you stopped slapping your ears and chanting “I can’t hear you,” you could earn the right to sit in the back of the room and have quality time with the Play Doh. Perhaps not. You may have congenital problems we don’t know about.

    Well, I hope that was worth your time. Does it make you feel better to mash out these uninspired insults to total strangers?

  68. Let us note for the record that Levi does not find it offensive and inappropriate to lie about your political opponents.

    This should surprise no one.

    I’d also point out that again Levi wants to be the supreme abriter of debate, clear to the point of defining what’s offensive and isn’t.

    He’s been given clear examples, but, like the coward he is, won’t address those.

    Now Hush Levi… adults are talking.

  69. Well, Levi, we are at a total draw. You find Obama’s remarks to be dead on and I find them to be the fire hose diarrhea of a demagogue.

    So (pay attention here) we have a basic conundrum of logic: to have a formal argument, we have to agree to disagree.

    You see Obama as the great seer of reality and I see him as the great snake-oil salesman. If we were to proceed, we would have to overcome the classic Casper and Gaston moment of who goes first.

    I will proffer this: If you confiscate all of the private wealth of all the individuals in the United States who have over one million in investments and assets, how much would you collect? And if you applied it all (realizing that these individuals would be make broke) how much of the deficit could you reduce? And, just for grins, what do you suppose the impact on the economy would be for returning these people to utter poverty?

    This is a perhaps ham-handed way of asking you how we get started on the process of paying for Obamacare, maintaining medicaid/medicare, social security, food stamps, rent subsidies/public housing, EIC, disability, veterans payments, pensions, and smaller budget items such as defense, energy research, government salaries, foreign aid, infrastructure, support for illegal aliens, NPR, screw worm eradication, Indian reservations, protecting Snail Darters, and the like.

    You see, Levi, I would slash and burn much of what is in the budget and “force” people to figure out how to get off the government couch and earn a little income for themselves. You, however, only see corporations, rich guys, the greedy as an enemy. So, take your brand of bastard to the cleaners and redistribute the wealth. I want to know what happens on the first day after you have your way.

    By the way, Obama is getting ready to dump General Motors and let it die under its own union pension weight before 2012. Got an explanation for that? Libya? Extended troop time in Iraq, Afghanistan? Military trials in a renewed Gitmo? Running the commander of Abu Gharib as a Democrat candidate for Senator in Texas? Imadinnerjacket laughing at the US?

    I could add more, but that is enough for you to run away, run away from.