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Hiding Israel’s record on gays behind the “pinkwashing” slogan

In a letter to the New York Times explaining why Israeli Prime Minister Binnyamin Netanyahu “respectfully declined” to write an op-ed piece for the old gray lady, his senior advisor Ron Dermer provides his correspondent with many examples of the paper’s bias, including this one:

Yet instead of trying to balance these views with a different opinion, it would seem as if the surest way to get an op-ed published in the New York Times these days, no matter how obscure the writer or the viewpoint, is to attack Israel. Even so, the recent piece on “Pinkwashing,” in which Israel is vilified for having the temerity to champion its record on gay-rights, set a new bar that will be hard for you to lower in the future.

Pinkwashing, as Matthew Ackerman reported last month

. . . refers to the efforts by the state of Israel and Israel advocacy organizations to promote Israel’s liberal treatment of its gay population, which is certainly the freest, by an extreme long shot, in its region and perhaps in the entire Western world, where even San Francisco may not be as welcoming to gays as Tel Aviv.

The attractiveness of this kind of argument is easy to see. Because Israel is seen most harshly in the West by the left, it is the “progressive” case for Israel that must be made. (Evangelicals and conservatives, presumably, will go on loving the Jewish state no matter how large or, shall we say, exuberant, the Tel Aviv gay pride parade becomes.) Since the left today reflexively voices its concern over gay rights, the thinking goes, highlight sexual freedom in Israel.

Despite the facts on the ground, many “progressive” voices, including those otherwise sympathetic to gay causes, bend over backwards to fault Israel, even creating the term “pinkwashing” to fault those who would highlight the rights openly gay people enjoy in the Jewish State, freedoms denied them in most nations in the Middle East.

Seems loyalty to the broader “progressive” cause trumps concern for the various groups supposedly championed by the left, even if this means alliance with those who oppress gay people when they gain political power.  Remember, when gay Palestinian Arabs face persecution, they flee to Israel.

Why do some on the left, even editorialists in major newspapers become apoplectic when defenders of a nation point to facts about that nation’s treatment of a “sexual minority”?  Shouldn’t that be seen as a good thing and give the nation’s critics pause?

Seems the Israeli Prime Minister had good grounds not to decline the old gray lady’s invitation.  They’d rather borrow left-wing arguments on Israel than consider the facts about the Jewish State before reaching its conclusions about its role in the Middle East.

(Via Newsbusters via reader Peter Hughes)

RELATED: Why Israel’s Record on Gays is Relevant

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33 Comments

  1. Have any gays ever been stupider and more (genuinely) self-hating, than the “progressive” gays of the Israel- and America-hating Left?

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — December 18, 2011 @ 8:11 pm - December 18, 2011

  2. I think this is a much more damning bit than the “Pinkwashing”:

    Not to be accused of cherry-picking to prove a point, I discovered that during the last three months (September through November) you published 20 op-eds about Israel in the New York Times and International Herald Tribune. After dividing the op-eds into two categories, “positive” and “negative,” with “negative” meaning an attack against the State of Israel or the policies of its democratically elected government, I found that 19 out of 20 columns were “negative.”

    The only “positive” piece was penned by Richard Goldstone (of the infamous Goldstone Report), in which he defended Israel against the slanderous charge of Apartheid.

    Yet your decision to publish that op-ed came a few months after your paper reportedly rejected Goldstone’s previous submission. In that earlier piece, which was ultimately published in the Washington Post, the man who was quoted the world over for alleging that Israel had committed war crimes in Gaza, fundamentally changed his position. According to the New York Times op-ed page, that was apparently news unfit to print.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — December 18, 2011 @ 8:15 pm - December 18, 2011

  3. One of the most puzzling (and impossible to justify) aspects of the left is its opposition to Israel (which is saying a lot, since the left, in general, is quite puzzling and impossible to justify). And it’s not so much that much of the left opposes Israel, but it is how much they hate it.

    They hate a liberal nation that dares to defend itself from an entity that wants to see it, and its people, destroyed.

    If everything about Muslims was the same, but they were Christians, they would be the left’s number one enemy. Evangelical Christians are like hippies compared to non-moderate Muslims, and yet somehow the fascist non-moderate Muslims are the left’s darling, while the relatively hippie-like Evangelicals are the hated enemy.

    And the difference between Israel and the non-moderate Muslims is even more pronounced. How they can hate Israel so fervently with such blind hot rage when its citizens, including women and gays, enjoy freedom while non-moderate Muslims oppress and often kill women and gays is simply beyond comprehension. Israel defends itself, and the freedom of its people, from radical Muslims fascists and the left, who claims to love freedom, tolerance, and equality for women and gays, treats it as if it were Satan.

    Comment by Naamloos — December 18, 2011 @ 8:57 pm - December 18, 2011

  4. NFI, Naamloos, but Israel’s record in regard to women’s and gay rights – coupled with its democracy and the fact that it has had to fight for its survival since its inception as a modern nation and yet is not a third-world shithole like the next-door neighbour that was birthed with it – is one of the reasons I’m willing to cut it a lot of slack when it actually does fuck things up.

    Comment by perturbed — December 18, 2011 @ 9:13 pm - December 18, 2011

  5. This is a huge reason why I am a social conservative who will never bow down to the Left. There is no moral nor intellectual credibility in people who’d condemn me as a rabid bigot for peacefully opposing gay marriage while simultaneously adoring “anti-imperialist forces”, i.e., Reds and Muslims, who actually execute gays.

    Comment by Seane-Anna — December 18, 2011 @ 9:18 pm - December 18, 2011

  6. Let’s see…where have we heard these things before?

    * That a “Jewish banking cabal” is responsible for all the misery in the world?

    * That all big business should be nationalized?

    * That taking to the streets and threatening people with violence is the way grievances should be expressed?

    * That morality must be legislated by the State?

    If you said “from the Nazis in Germany, during their rise to power,” then you win the prize.

    All of these things are now happening in the U.S. Statism is, as it always has been, the road to barbarism.

    Over the past few days, I have been watching an old video series: “I, Claudius.” When it comes to timeliness, it’s still as fresh as a daisy. Many of the things that happened in Imperial Rome are going on today.

    Comment by Lori Heine — December 18, 2011 @ 9:23 pm - December 18, 2011

  7. The far left and a good number of liberals detest Israel and Jews in general because they are the overdog. They love the underdog so much (ie Muslims) they slobber over them like a dog at a food bowl. And what’s surprising is the gay libs who fawn over Muslims; hell, these cultists would kill gays in a heartbeat. It shows the mentally weird way libs live on a day to day basis.

    Comment by davinci — December 18, 2011 @ 10:08 pm - December 18, 2011

  8. There is a reason conservative New Yorkers call it the “New York Slimes”.

    Comment by Richard Bell — December 18, 2011 @ 10:09 pm - December 18, 2011

  9. I do not understand the religious-like fervor of many secular Jews who oppose Zionism. But if you spend any time on the sidewalks of New York and engage in casual conversation, you will encounter one Jew after another who opposes the state of Israel on the basis that Zionists are imperialistic colonizers.

    Comment by Heliotrope — December 18, 2011 @ 11:36 pm - December 18, 2011

  10. Dan: serious question, and you can respond to me in e-mail if you want b/c I’m not coming back to play with your other commenters.

    Isn’t it possible to be a supporter of Israel when Israel does good, as it does in many areas such as what you’re pointing out with being one of the most progressive societies in the world when it comes to gay rights, and ALSO be critical of Israel, just as one would be of any other nation-state, when they advocate and implement bad policies, such as their handling of the Palestinian situation?

    I always hate when the idea of “anti-Semitism” gets smeared onto this…as you may or may not know, I’m a liberal (well, you know that) atheist who works for a liberal Jewish guy and we’ve, in the past, had big old (intellectually stimulating, passionate) fights about Israel, Palestine, etc. Just one of those things. We learn from each others’ perspectives, etc.

    It just seems to me that these issues are simply impossible to look at in a cut-and-dried way. Complexity and nuance abound.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — December 19, 2011 @ 6:21 am - December 19, 2011

  11. Shorter Evan: I dont’ want to be held accountable for my words, so I’ll throw bombs and leave.

    Personally, at this point I think Israel has better options for Gaza than what the politicos are offering. The “Gaza Strip Mall” has a nice ring to it. Heck it’s about the same size as Mall of America, yes?

    Comment by The Livewire — December 19, 2011 @ 7:52 am - December 19, 2011

  12. such as their handling of the Palestinian situation?

    Perhaps I am not clever enough to understand this, but it seems to be some sort of code.

    What is (1) the “Palestinian situation” and (2) how have the Israelis “handled it” and (3) what should have the Israeli’s have done differently and (4) what must the Israeli’s do now to patch things up?

    Of course, you may criticize a country you support. Blind allegiance is never required unless you are thinking of some sort of statist contrivance.

    The convenient historical amnesia concerning the British Mandate is no small part of the open and honest discussion of the “Palestinian problem” and, therefore, I will present it in brief.

    The British installed Abdullah as the Emir of Transjordan in 1922 and sent an amendment of the Palestinian Mandate to the League of Nations in September of that year which declared that the lands of Transjordan were not available for a Jewish national homeland. This act, effectively removed more than 80% of the land available for a future Israel.

    Abdullah came from a state that was absorbed when the Saudi Arabia came into being in 1932. Transjordan was closed to the Jews and so Jews were restricted to the portion of land west of the River Jordan.

    In 1946, Transjordan was granted independence from the British Mandate and the United Nations declared that both a Jewish state (Israel) and an Arab state (Jordan) be created and that Jerusalem be an “internationalized” city.

    The historical amnesia concerns those people known as Palestinians who got mandated into Transjordan and then “shut out” when the state of Jordan was recognized. By “shut out” I mean that Jordan was an Arab state rather than a Palestinian state.

    If one wishes to replay the days of Balfour, the League of Nations and the days of the United Nations in its infancy, then the solution is for smart people at long tables elsewhere to decide to close down Israel and let the Jews go back where they came from. (Hat tip: Helen Thomas.)

    Unscrambling eggs is just possibly impossible. The pesky Jews of Israel seem to resent all the incoming rockets and have decided to act defensively. Occasionally, they act offensively to protect themselves from an increase in the rockets fired at them. They are in the midst of trading hundreds of prisoners to regain the possession of just one of their kidnapped soldiers.

    All of this would just go away if the Jews would just go away.

    Mahmoud Abbas is President of the Palestinian Authority and the Fatah movement in the West Bank territories and Khaled Meshal is the Hamas leader and controls the Gaza territory. The two signed a “reconciliation” accord last spring, but have not reconciled. The accord was set up by Egypt. Hamas does not trust Fatah and Meshal and Abbas do not trust one another and both are trying to get footholds in the power structure struggles in Egypt.

    Meanwhile, no one considers bothering Jordan or any lands comprising Jordan.

    Comment by Heliotrope — December 19, 2011 @ 9:29 am - December 19, 2011

  13. Isn’t it possible to be a supporter of Israel when Israel does good, as it does in many areas such as what you’re pointing out with being one of the most progressive societies in the world when it comes to gay rights, and ALSO be critical of Israel, just as one would be of any other nation-state, when they advocate and implement bad policies, such as their handling of the Palestinian situation?

    And yet, Evan Hurst and Wayne Besen at Truth Wins Out seem quite incapable of criticizing the Palestinians for advocating and implementing bad policies, such as the torture and execution of gays and the insistence that Jews be destroyed as national policy.

    The reasons why are pretty obvious. The OWS movement that Truth Wins Out supports is viciously anti-Jewish. The Barack Obama Party that funds and supports Truth Wins Out is viciously anti-Jewish, as we see from the Reverends Sharpton, Jackson, Wright, and Farrakhan. The “progressive” Left that Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst are members of and such eager lapdogs to please is viciously anti-Jewish, fully supporting the Palestinian brainwashing and blood libels and all sorts of anti-Jewish propaganda, as recently condemned by the Wiesenthal Center.

    Plus the fact that, simply put, Besen and Hurst are cowards. They know full well that the sort of abuse they heap on Christians and Jews would have a fatwa down on their heads in a heartbeat if they were ever to turn it against Muslims. As a result, we are treated to the hilarity of them shrieking that exporting Bibles to Russia is a hate crime, but insisting that Palestinians who preach, advocate, and make a practice of executing gays are not in the least responsible for their actions or acting out of “hate”.

    In short, they are scared of radical Muslims, virulently bigoted against Jews and Christians, and desperate to please their Holocaust-supporting friends on the left.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 19, 2011 @ 11:05 am - December 19, 2011

  14. The Israeli government certainly isn’t above criticism, true. However, a mere child can see the stark difference between life for minorities in Israel and those in predominantly Arab Muslim countries. For example, I would rather be a Muslim living in Israel than a Palestinian Christian living in the West Bank or Gaza. Heck, how about being a Jew or Copt in Egypt? Everything wrong that Israel does is magnified to the enth degree by the Left while the threat it lives under is minimized and the sins of the Muslim lands are largely ignored. That’s insanity.

    Comment by JohnAGJ — December 19, 2011 @ 11:44 am - December 19, 2011

  15. If all governments of the world were held to the standard that Israel is – then Evan would have a good point,. Problem is, only Israel and America are held to a higher standard.
    Also, how is it that Muslims who number in the billions are suddenly an oppressed minority while Israel which has only 7 million citizens (many are muslim btw, don’t know the exact percentage) is suddenly this evil overdog – simply because it is a Western nation that affords more freedom, liberty and rule of law than all those muslim nations?

    Comment by Leah — December 19, 2011 @ 11:55 am - December 19, 2011

  16. Leah,

    It’s because Christians (and Jews) won’t slaughter people over which they disagree with. Kevin Smith said as much when asked about a sequel to Dogma.

    Comment by The Livewire — December 19, 2011 @ 1:33 pm - December 19, 2011

  17. Case in point.

    Remember the speech Hillary! gave mere weeks ago about how the Obama administration would consider as its enemies governments and movements that did not respect “gay rights”?

    Buh-bye.

    Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy. That’s critical. There is not a single statement that the president has ever made in any of our policy assertions that the Taliban is our enemy because it threatens U.S. interests.

    Again, this is the insanity of Truth Wins Out, Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, and the rest of the Obama Party puppet LGBT organizations. These idiots shriek that Christianity and Judaism are our enemies because of “homophobia” — and then endorse and insist that people who regularly murder gays, lesbians, Jews, Christians, women, dissenters, and anyone who disagrees with them are not enemies.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 19, 2011 @ 1:58 pm - December 19, 2011

  18. Isn’t it possible to be a supporter of Israel when Israel does good, as it does in many areas such as what you’re pointing out with being one of the most progressive societies in the world when it comes to gay rights, and ALSO be critical of Israel, just as one would be of any other nation-state, when they advocate and implement bad policies, such as their handling of the Palestinian situation?

    As Leah points out, you have to apply the same standards to every other country/entity that you apply to Israel. Otherwise, your opinion/arguments is/are worthless. If you condemn Israel, but fail to condemn the terrorists that are attempting to destroy it, you’re simply wrong.

    And you can still support Israel and criticize it. But it is quite obvious that many on the left don’t support it at all.

    Comment by Naamloos — December 19, 2011 @ 6:56 pm - December 19, 2011

  19. Israel’s re-forming as a nation, so many centuries after it was destroyed by the Romans, is nothing short of a miracle. I believe the Hand of God has been in it. Therefore, I think those who fight against Israel fight against God.

    They are our friends, and have been since the modern State of Israel formed. It would be dishonorable for us to abandon them now. The British got the whole region into this mess when it double-dealt with Israel and with “the Palenstinians.” They made the mistake of equating one group with the other.

    “The Palestinians” are not a real nation, and they never have been. They’re a bunch of unruly and quarrelsome people, motivated by sheer hate. Their grievances are being stirred up by the Left, and have been ever since the Soviets began egging them on.

    Comment by Lori Heine — December 19, 2011 @ 11:20 pm - December 19, 2011

  20. The “Palestinians” are not a real people. When you look into them, those who trace back to the ancient Jewish/Christian era have the DNA markers of ancient Jews and Christians of the southern Levant. Many, but not all, of them were taken over by the Muslim sweep in the 600′s and were of the Sunni sect.

    We are accustomed to sweeping all of the people of the region into the category of Arab and non-Arab. This does not help the situation. There are many “tribes” of Arabs that have no homeland in the sense of the “Palestinian Problem. The British mucked this all up when they took on the task of unscrambling the Ottoman Empire in the Levant. Perhaps they might have done better by walking away and letting the tribes fight it all out among themselves.

    Comment by Heliotrope — December 20, 2011 @ 8:48 am - December 20, 2011

  21. North Dallas 30 is a congenital liar and he owes me a personal apology. His lack of honesty and integrity is appalling. He has completely distorted and twisted my views and lied by saying that I have not offered an opinion on Muslim extremism and the Palestinian situation.

    Here is what I had to say about the Danish Cartoon controversy:

    http://www.fcnp.com/549/besen.htm

    However, it is also time to admit that we have a serious problem that isn’t going away. A significant number of Muslims subscribe to a brand of the religion that is nihilistic, destructive, barbaric, backwards, anti-democratic and brutal. There is no point in negotiating or reasoning with these fanatics. They will either self-moderate out of self-interest, or come into direct confrontation with the West.

    The reaction to the comics that ran in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten and other newspapers is not normal or civilized. It can only come from an extremist culture that glorifies hatred and violence.

    Here is what I wrote about the Muslim/South Park controversy:

    http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2010/04/8441/

    One can only marvel at the paranoid hypersensitivity of some religious adherents, who evidently think their religion and prophet so fragile and vulnerable that any criticism or satire must be furiously (and violently) stamped out, like a red-faced child in a shrieking tantrum. If Mr. Al-Amrikee wishes to live under his twisted playground-bully version of Islamic law, instead of under the Constitution of the United States, well, hopefully he will find the door and not let it hit him on the way out. Saudi Arabia, which is currently threatening to behead a harmless Lebanese man for “sorcery” (hawking harmless mystical cures on TV), should suit him just fine.

    Here is what I wrote about Hamas:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-besen/the-mess-in-the-middle-ea_b_155773.html

    The first step to a brighter future is crushing Hamas. This cowardly terrorist organization indiscriminately fires rockets into cities and then hides behind human shields when Israel’s military rightfully responds. Hamas’ charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the forming of a radical Islamic Republic that would fly, “the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.”

    Unfortunately, many “liberals” are infuriated that Israel is targeting these illiberal and violent theocrats. They mysteriously don’t seem to be concerned that the rights of women and other minorities, including gay people, would be greatly eroded if Hamas lorded over a Palestinian state.

    Conclusion: The truth is now here for all to see. North Dallas 30 could have found this information with a 5 minute Google search, but instead he elected to personally slime me and smear Truth Wins Out.

    Clearly, this is a person who person who lacks credibility and will simply make things up to back his worldview. If the readers of this odious page believe in facts, they will take everything North Dallas 30 says with a grain of salt. And on his opinions about Truth Wins Out, you might need enough salt to fill the Dead Sea.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — December 21, 2011 @ 10:31 am - December 21, 2011

  22. Shorter Wayne:

    Eric threw bombs and left, so now I’ll come in and do the same.

    Of course… From Wayne’s own article.

    “The fact is, eliminating Hamas would pave the way for reuniting Gaza and the West Bank under Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Having seen the radical alternative, the Israeli government would be favorably inclined to seek common ground with Abbas – expediting the possibility of a Palestinian state.”

    This is akin to arguing that Cuba is better than North Korea because they’re not as communist.

    So again, Wayne supports terrorists and elevating them to equals as Israel. He also says this.

    “If this scenario plays out, Israel should move swiftly to empower Abbas by tearing down all illegal Jewish settlements. Nothing has done more to harm Israel in terms of world opinion and done less to improve its security than these outrageous outposts on Palestinian property.”

    So Even though ‘land for peace’ has netted Israel nothing It is Israel’s fault for not knuckling under enough.

    Of course Wayne omits that Fatah is working with Hamas

    So Wayne’s own words prove that he’s lying. Funny how Libs hate that.

    Comment by The Livewire — December 21, 2011 @ 11:07 am - December 21, 2011

  23. Hint to other commenters: If you read through this comments section, you’ll see why I don’t really engage here. It’s not most of you…

    There’s simply a troll who doesn’t deserve our attention and who has yet to be banned from this blog. He has a problem.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — December 21, 2011 @ 2:42 pm - December 21, 2011

  24. North Dallas 30 is a congenital liar and he owes me a personal apology. His lack of honesty and integrity is appalling. He has completely distorted and twisted my views and lied by saying that I have not offered an opinion on Muslim extremism and the Palestinian situation.

    Correction. THIS is what I said.

    And yet, Evan Hurst and Wayne Besen at Truth Wins Out seem quite incapable of criticizing the Palestinians for advocating and implementing bad policies, such as the torture and execution of gays and the insistence that Jews be destroyed as national policy.

    And, as Livewire has neatly pointed out, Besen, you supported and endorsed Abbas, who has advocated and implemented bad policies, such as the torture and execution of gays, the insistence that Jews be destroyed as national policy, AND the endorsement of Hamas as a partner.

    And as for my second statement:

    Again, this is the insanity of Truth Wins Out, Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, and the rest of the Obama Party puppet LGBT organizations. These idiots shriek that Christianity and Judaism are our enemies because of “homophobia” — and then endorse and insist that people who regularly murder gays, lesbians, Jews, Christians, women, dissenters, and anyone who disagrees with them are not enemies.

    Quoting from your article:

    Mr. Douthat does not mention, however, an amusing parallel between the extremist bloodthirsty garbage on RevolutionMuslim.com and the often thuggish and violent rhetoric of many self-proclaimed Christian extremists in America. Yes, just like their “Tea Party” brethren across the religious aisle, RevolutionMuslim.com trumpets a picture of President Obama with a Hitler moustache. Clearly, great minds think alike! While the Tea Partiers accuse the President of somehow wanting to murder Grandma by guaranteeing health insurance to millions of Americans, RevolutionMuslim.com complains (with considerably more justification) about his ill-conceived Afghan War policies.

    Couple that with your endorsement and support of Abbas and his policies, and you are in fact shrieking that Christianity and Judaism are our enemies because of “homophobia” — and then endorse and insist that people who regularly murder gays, lesbians, Jews, Christians, women, dissenters, and anyone who disagrees with them are not enemies.

    You’re very easy to corner and trap, Besen. Perhaps that’s why you and Evan Hurst are so desperate to ban anyone who dares express a contrary opinion from your website.

    Which, I might add, is quite the contrast to this one, in which people like yourself are freely allowed to comment.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 21, 2011 @ 4:07 pm - December 21, 2011

  25. yeah, Evan, I don’t think they ‘ban’ people here. All the commenters I’ve seen since I started reading this blog seem to still be here, despite some really nasty arguments.

    Comment by BrianReno — December 21, 2011 @ 4:15 pm - December 21, 2011

  26. and seriously, ‘banning’ is creepy and Orwellian.

    Comment by BrianReno — December 21, 2011 @ 4:16 pm - December 21, 2011

  27. Clearly, this is a person who person who lacks credibility and will simply make things up to back his worldview. If the readers of this odious page believe in facts, they will take everything North Dallas 30 says with a grain of salt. And on his opinions about Truth Wins Out, you might need enough salt to fill the Dead Sea.

    Comment by Wayne Besen — December 21, 2011 @ 10:31 am – December 21, 2011

    There’s simply a troll who doesn’t deserve our attention and who has yet to be banned from this blog. He has a problem.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — December 21, 2011 @ 2:42 pm – December 21, 2011

    Perhaps we should show people what Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst consider to be “facts”.

    How do we know? Because they said so when they linked that post (emphasis mine).

    Indeed, his post on the subject was so grotesque that Tintin at Sadly, No!, usually one of the greatest snark blogs EVER, dispensed with all silliness to throw down one of the most memorable, spot-on smackdowns I’ve seen in recent months. I won’t quote it here because this is a family blog, but suffice it to say that everything he said is true, and then some.

    That is what Truth Wins Out endorses. That is what Wayne Besen considers to be a truthful statement. That is what Evan Hurst considers to be intelligent online dialogue. That is what they want to spew while screaming and demanding that other people be banned. That is what they and their Truth Wins Out organization support and endorse people posting online. That is what they are claiming as truth and say they are justified in saying even as they scream and call others liars and demand apologies.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 21, 2011 @ 4:23 pm - December 21, 2011

  28. shorter Evin:
    What, you hold me accountable for what I say? That’s why I don’t comment here!

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 21, 2011 @ 4:54 pm - December 21, 2011

  29. @The_Livewire…you’ll notice in my original comment that I invited Dan to e-mail me about it if he wanted. Also, I’ll point out that I really don’t spend all that much time in MY OWN comments section, much less others’, so it has absolutely nothing to do with “being held accountable,” or whatever makes you feel better/like you’ve won an argument I didn’t have with you, but the simple answer is that, unlike many people on the internet, I have A Lot To Do and simply do not have time to engage in long discussions on the internet.

    As to banning, your resident troll-boy up there is banned from most places he’s spent any time on the internet. Banning is something we actually don’t often do at Truth Wins Out. Besides the fact that we welcome all viewpoints, my regular commenters like to have a ready supply of chew toys on hand. But then there are some who are so obnoxious, such pathetic human beings, that you simply cannot abide them any longer. That’s where the ban-hammer comes in.

    Comment by Evan Hurst — December 21, 2011 @ 7:09 pm - December 21, 2011

  30. Don’t worry, Livewire. You made Wayne Besen and Evan look like the lying hypocrites they are above, so you’re well into the “obnoxious, pathetic human being” category. :)

    And you have the temerity of being a straight person who would dare question or criticize either Evan or Wayne. That makes you a homophobe.

    But don’t worry; you’re in good company. Indeed, there are an overwhelming number of homophobes in this country, especially those who would dare criticize Evan Hurst and his Wonkette cronies for running attack pieces on Trig Palin.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 21, 2011 @ 8:54 pm - December 21, 2011

  31. #27

    Perhaps we should show people what Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst consider to be “facts”.

    How do we know? Because they said so when they linked that post

    And they call you a troll, North Dallas Thirty? Seriously? They endorse vile personal attacks and they call you a troll?

    Evan Hurst, “embarrassments to LGBT people everywhere” is a much more accurate description of people like you, Dan Savage, the idiots that march in gay pride parades wearing nothing but a speedo and oil, and the idiots that screech about concentration camps and being oppressed by the “homophobes” that believe in tradition (but don’t actually hold any ill will towards gay people (which is saying a lot, all things considered)).

    No, B. Daniel Blatt is the polar opposite of an embarrassment to any group of people. He shows that gay people are capable of being decent and moral people, which is something the “gay community” apparently wouldn’t want anyone to think about them. Are you so self hating that you want people to think of you as indecent and immoral just because you’re gay?

    Comment by Naamloos — December 21, 2011 @ 10:27 pm - December 21, 2011

  32. Shorter Evan: Even though I said I wouldn’t come back, I keep coming back, just don’t expect me to defend my points in public because, well, I can’t.

    It’s OK Evan, I understand how hard it is when your own words are used against you. Funny how things like Google make it difficult to hide from your words.

    Comment by The Livewire — December 22, 2011 @ 8:30 am - December 22, 2011

  33. “And they call you a troll, North Dallas Thirty? Seriously? They endorse vile personal attacks and they call you a troll?”

    For morning hilarity, read this and imaging John Reyes-Davies saying this in his Gimli voice, “And they call it a mine. A mine!”

    Comment by The Livewire — December 22, 2011 @ 8:33 am - December 22, 2011

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