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How about a TV series treating Christians* with dignity?

Posted by B. Daniel Blatt at 6:27 pm - March 13, 2012.
Filed under: Movies/Film & TV,War on Christians

On Saturday, reports Tina Korbe, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich “called out the double standard of the mainstream media” referencing “ABC’s new TV show, ‘GCB,’ based on the novel ‘Good Christian Bitches.’”  She cites this Politico report:

“Here’s to show you the biases of the elite media, look at the new show that’s on that has the word ‘Christian’ in it and I want you to take the exact name, drop out Christian and put in Muslim,” Gingrich said. “And ask yourself, is there any network that would have dared to run a show like that and you know the answer is not a one because anti-Christian bigotry is just fine in the entertainment industry but they have to be very protective of Islam.”

Just watch Sergeant York, the 1941 film the earned Gary Cooper his first Oscar.  The very versatile Walter Brennan snagged his fourth Oscar nod for his portrayal of Pastor Rosier Pile, an honorable clergyman who helps Cooper find a path to God and stands by him as he wrestles with the merits of taking up arms for his nation.  Or the 1954 Oscar winner, On the Waterfront where another versatile actor secured an Academy nomination for playing a priest, the strong moral center of an incredibly powerful film.

Why do we no longer see any TV shows with similar upstanding ministers — and members of their flock who live by the teachings of their faith and treat their fellows with dignity?

How about even bringing in gays, you know, like a gay man who moves out on his boyfriend when he finds that that latter had been cheating on him.   He has to move in with his brother who, once a wastrel, saw the light when he fell for a fetching Evangelical (or Mormon?) woman.  The brother initially refuses to put him up in their guest house because of  his “lifestyle,” but his wife presses him to show some Christian compassion.

Their pastor (or Bishop, if they’re Mormon) acknowledges that he is wrestling with church doctrine on sexuality and encourages the (straight) couple to treat the gay relative decently, to encourage him to come to church.  (And, heck, maybe the gay guy “at sea” since his relationship falls apart, talks to said minister who, through the young man, realizes that one man can truly, romantically love another.)

And we’ll add in a happy gay couple who can’t put our hero up because they’re taking care of the mother of one of the men–and trying to adopt.  So, we’ll balance the happy religious couple with the happy gay couple.

(For the record, since reading the article this weekend, I have mapped out a TV series based on the above idea, even outlined the pilot.)

*and gays.

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90 Comments

  1. Hollywood is too busy making heroes out of pimps. criminals, and terrorists, to bother making a positive film or television show about Christians.

    Comment by V the K — March 13, 2012 @ 6:32 pm - March 13, 2012

  2. Hope you have the chance to pitch the idea to some of those Folk in your circle.

    Comment by rusty — March 13, 2012 @ 6:57 pm - March 13, 2012

  3. The mention of Mormons reminds me of the 2003 film Latter Days, about a slutty gay partyboy who falls for a gay Mormon missionary (who’s a virgin, but accepts his own homosexuality and intends to someday have sex with “the right man”).

    For a while it seems like the movie is going to do something really unexpected by presenting the young LDS guy’s religion in at least a semi-positive light.

    Instead, it opts for the “Spirituality is okay but organized religion is the root of all horrors” cliche. So while the gay Mormon dude is truly appealing and in some ways his “spirituality” has made him a more responsible, more mature, more admirable person than his secular would-be boyfriend, every other LDS character in the film is a fanatically homophobic asshole. (Well, okay, there’s a straight missionary who is just fanatically homophobic, but not an asshole — but even he isn’t allowed by the screenplay to be genuinely likable; he’s merely less awful.)

    Comment by Throbert McGee — March 13, 2012 @ 7:07 pm - March 13, 2012

  4. I suppose I find it difficult to watch gay themed shows because I’m not close to the subject matter. I don’t know anyone who is openly gay or closeted gay. For most people, they only see it television or movies. At best, they put them in positive light. At worse, they emphasize their worst stereotypes like “Glee” or “RuPaul’s Drag Show”. So this Christian bashing show is really an excuse to put gays into a show that they expect the public to watch. Mixing Christians and gays in the plot can only work if they respected Christians, but they don’t so the show will be another stereotype of both. Its a fantasy program. They made Christians into punching bags.

    Comment by anon23532 — March 13, 2012 @ 7:18 pm - March 13, 2012

  5. There is a huge difference between Christianity and the cult of islam (not a religion at all). islam is about a worldwide takeover in the name of a F***king backwards people who are hypocrites and desire to live like they did 1000 years ago, except for nuclear weapons and guns.

    Second, if one demeans islam, it is death to those infidels. Christians generally don’t get their panties uptight.

    Third, have you noticed how emotional people are in the Middle East? All they do is protest and shake their fists, burning things in effigy, beheading people. No wonder their countries are a piece of s**t. Instead of working for a living, they pray all day to their phony allah and run through the streets. If we did that in the US, we would be a third world country.

    Fourth, you may have noticed I did not capitalize the religion or their god. That was done on purpose.

    Comment by davinci — March 13, 2012 @ 7:21 pm - March 13, 2012

  6. Davinci, I don’t disagree with you about the backwardness of many Muslims, but I would point out that a lot of the things you said about them can also describe most of the history of European Christendom — when Christians quite often “got their panties uptight”, often causing significant death tolls among other Christians who supposedly had heretical views. (Other groups like Jews were terrorized in the name of Jesus, too, but overwhelmingly it was “mainstream” Christians oppressing “heretical” Christians — because Christian civilization, at the time, was savage and backwards.)

    (The US Bill of Rights begins with the religious freedom clause, precisely because the Founding Fathers were acutely aware that Christians had a long, long history of uptight panties…)

    Comment by Throbert McGee — March 13, 2012 @ 8:10 pm - March 13, 2012

  7. The creators should be embarrassed, because it’s such a terrible show. Not funny, entertaining or moving.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 13, 2012 @ 8:27 pm - March 13, 2012

  8. Everyone needs to chill.

    Since it’s obvious that the Ladies of GCB aren’t “good Christians”, why should good Christians be upset at the satire? Just still back, enjoy the sillyness and the further joys of shirtless Blake.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — March 13, 2012 @ 9:30 pm - March 13, 2012

  9. When I began reading this post I thought you were serious that Hollywood should treat Christians with dignity, but then I read the outline of your imagined show, Dan, and I knew I’d been had. The show you outlined is just more propaganda which posits that “dignified” and “positive” Christians are those who ignore or deny Biblical teaching on homosexuality and embrace the liberal secularist gay-is-good view. Your imagined show is another example of gays’ commitment to “queering” every institution in society, including the church. Don’t think so? Then how about this.

    How about a show about conservative Christians who accept the Bible’s teaching that homosexual behavior is sinful, yet treat gay people with sincere love and kindness, similar to the way Jesus treated the woman caught in adultery. Imagine such a show. Decency, kindness, goodness, and love coexisting with a traditional view of homosexuality. I know, Dan. For you, that’s a horror movie.

    Comment by Seane-Anna — March 13, 2012 @ 10:00 pm - March 13, 2012

  10. The interesting thing about Dan’s post and the subsequent comments is that the gays and the Christians are in two different camps. Why can’t a person be both gay and Christian (no value is implied in the order)? Thanks to the cultural flashpoint that the discussion over gays and Christianity has become at this moment in history, gay Christians are presented with two difficult choices: supress their sexuality or deny their faith. However, a contexual reading of the scriptures allows for the possiblity of a God-given grace through Christ Jesus that embraces all gay people and calls them from glory unto glory.

    As for GCB, Dan’s (and Newt’s) point is well taken. The media is so eager to present Christians in a negative way. The portrayal of a group of Church women as some big-haired, sanctimonious cheerleader squad of mean girls demonstrates a level of ignorance or contempt that causes me to wonder:

    What in creation did Church ladies ever do to Kim Gatlin?

    Comment by aajacks80 — March 13, 2012 @ 10:42 pm - March 13, 2012

  11. Seane-Anna, I’m not sure how one could have a show that has a Christian couple and a gay couple* showing them all in a positive light when one couple regards the other as sinful (while treating them with love, kindness, etc.). It seems more like condescension to me. If the gay couple regarded the Christian couple as superstitious nuts, but treated them with love, kindness, etc., I suspect you might regard it as condescending as well.

    * The gay couple could also be Christian, but I suppose they wouldn’t have the “traditional” view of homosexuality.

    Comment by Pat — March 13, 2012 @ 11:16 pm - March 13, 2012

  12. Seane-Anna, I’m not sure how one could have a show that has a Christian couple and a gay couple* showing them all in a positive light when one couple regards the other as sinful (while treating them with love, kindness, etc.).

    Comment by Pat — March 13, 2012 @ 11:16 pm – March 13, 2012

    Pretty easy, actually.

    And it happened that He was reclining at the table in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him. When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, “Why is He eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners?” And hearing this, Jesus *said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

    Mark 2:15 – 17

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 13, 2012 @ 11:28 pm - March 13, 2012

  13. NDT, the Bible selection is fine, but I don’t believe it addresses my point. Or perhaps I didn’t make mine clear. Sure, it’s was nice of Jesus to have dinner with the sinners, and certainly puts Jesus in a positive light. But it still doesn’t put the sinners in a positive light. Now maybe eating with Jesus will help them reduce their sins. But the gay couple will still be “sinning” in the view of the Christian couple.

    Comment by Pat — March 13, 2012 @ 11:40 pm - March 13, 2012

  14. Hmm. Didn’t mean to imply that the Christian couple would be watching any sexual act, so let me rewrite the last sentence above…But the gay couple will still be “sinning” according to the views of the Christian couple.

    Comment by Pat — March 13, 2012 @ 11:43 pm - March 13, 2012

  15. 1. The biggest reason why you don’t see as many positive portrayals in modern times is due to the many abuse scandals that have been rolling through various religions over the last decade or so. These continuing scandals have seriously affected society’s perception of religion, and that shows up rather prominently in the films we make.

    2. In response to the Gingrich comment, it’s a bit disingenuous to complain about the “mistreatment” of a mainstream religion when the other minority religion he mentions is frequently the target of stereotyping, fear mongering, and discrimination. No one ever complains about Christian law being recognized by our courts. When was the last time we had people opposing the construction of a cathedral, or chapel? In fact, the comments of this very thread (#5) are a perfect example of the anti-muslim sentiment that exists in this country.

    Comment by El Genio — March 14, 2012 @ 1:39 am - March 14, 2012

  16. I’m surprised that so many here seem to have bought into the idea of Christianity as the Christian Right presents it, where Christians are all socially conservative.

    Almost all anti-gay political trouble in the U.S. seems to come from Protestant fundamentalists, socially conservative Catholics, and Mormons. Many of the rest of U.S. Christians don’t believe homosexual sex is a sin. And before anyone starts claiming that all Christians take the Bible literally: there are big differences among Christians, and many Christian theologies aren’t biblically literalist.

    I’d like to see something like the show Daniel is conceiving. Maybe the lives of an extended family based in a conservative, church-going state with branches in deep blue parts of the country, with LGBT family members and loved ones, and maybe some racial and religious inter-marriage to make things even more interesting. That would be a good setting for showing some differing kinds of Christians, by theology, interpretation and temperament. Seeing nuanced but honest portrayals of Christians would be a welcomed change. Not to mention non-stereotypical portrayals of LGBT people.

    Comment by Donny D. — March 14, 2012 @ 2:28 am - March 14, 2012

  17. Donny, your post gave ma an idea on how to change my idea, one that had popped into my head. Perhaps, instead of mine (which is set in LA), we could set it in the South –and where the gay character, while “out”, doesn’t use the word to avoid offending his Granny who just loves his “roommate” and wishes they would each find new brides.

    And your idea would help present a more positive image of the South; mine could double as a commentary on Hollywood.

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — March 14, 2012 @ 2:43 am - March 14, 2012

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  21. You know that ‘Granny’ is often offended when the secret comes out inadvertently and she feels totally left out.

    People are more offended by the polite omission of the truth. Treating folk with respect balanced with living life authentically and with honesty is a talent and an art that provides the love, tenderness and caring that truly brings and keeps a family together. Be it chosen family or bio family.

    Comment by rusty — March 14, 2012 @ 5:47 am - March 14, 2012

  22. Oh but BDB, I do like the idea of you moving the storyline to a southern community. Would absolutely do wonders. The South has a wonderful mix of gay folk peppered amongst its communities.

    Brings me back to Designing women and Dixie Carter, as Julia.

    Carter was married three times – to businessman Arthur Carter (1967-77), actor George Hearn (1977-79), and actor Hal Holbrook (1984-present). Surprisingly, the actress was a Republican who disagreed with many of Julia Sugarbaker’s liberal political views (she made a deal with the producers that for every left-of-center speech she gave on the show, Julia would get to sing a song in a future episode). Carter was also a cabaret singer who performed at The Café Carlyle in NYC for many years, and she was a strong supporter of the gay community.

    Comment by rusty — March 14, 2012 @ 5:58 am - March 14, 2012

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  24. One of the better Christians-in-fiction I’ve come across was the Dresden Files.

    While the TV show didn’t last long enough to get into it, the books introduce Christians who channel His will directly. We have the Knights of the Cross, three chosen who bear swords (allegedly) imbedded with the nails from the Crucifixion. That they channel power is pretty clear (a vampire ignites quite nicely when he lays a hand on Michael Carpenter, for example). They *don’t* run around smiting the innocent or burning witches or anything. When Harry calls in all his favours in Changes, it’s also pretty clear that The Divine is very real.
    “My faith protects me. My Kevlar helps.”

    But there were some things I believed in. Some things I had faith in. And faith isn’t about perfect attendance to services, or how much money you put on the little plate. It isn’t about going skyclad to the Holy Rites, or meditating each day upon the divine. Faith is about what you do. It’s about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It’s about making sacrifices for the good of others—even when there’s not going to be anyone telling you what a hero you are.

    - Harry Dresden

    Comment by The Livewire — March 14, 2012 @ 8:13 am - March 14, 2012

  25. Oh but BDB, I do like the idea of you moving the storyline to a southern community. Would absolutely do wonders. The South has a wonderful mix of gay folk peppered amongst its communities.

    Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil for example. :-) Never saw the movie, just read the books.

    Comment by The Livewire — March 14, 2012 @ 8:14 am - March 14, 2012

  26. Why are there no calls for a boycotts (strikes, riot, whatever) for using the word “Bitch” in reference to women?

    I know the answer by the way…

    Comment by Geena — March 14, 2012 @ 8:24 am - March 14, 2012

  27. One Million Moms (the folk behind the Ellen boycott and is the sister arm of the AFA) are going after SCB. But Kraft said piss off to the OMM

    Comment by rusty — March 14, 2012 @ 8:32 am - March 14, 2012

  28. Oops OMM is boycotting SCB

    Comment by rusty — March 14, 2012 @ 8:32 am - March 14, 2012

  29. Kraft pulled cream cheese ads

    and a NYC councilman spoke up
    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/vallone-calls-boycott-chenoweth-show-gcb-article-1.1034261

    Still amazed little objection from liberal women to the word being used in a title.

    Comment by Geena — March 14, 2012 @ 8:53 am - March 14, 2012

  30. Kraft Foods tells The Hollywood Reporter that reports about commercials for its Philadelphia Cream Cheese being pulled from the show as a result of the controversy are false.

    “As part of a larger multishow media buy on ABC-TV, there were some spots included in the rotation for the new GCB series,” Kraft says. “It’s customary to advertise on premiere episodes due to their large viewership, like Philadelphia Cream Cheese did this week.
    “The brand has decided to redirect advertising to other programs with an established audience,” the statement continues. “Although we received a few consumer complaints, this decision was not linked in any way to the content of this particular show.”
    It’s hard to tell if the company is backtracking from a statement delivered to TMZ, which omitted words from its statement when it broke the news of the ad pull.

    Comment by rusty — March 14, 2012 @ 9:09 am - March 14, 2012

  31. Why do we no longer see any TV shows with similar upstanding ministers — and members of their flock who live by the teachings of their faith and treat their fellows with dignity?

    Shows like that can’t compete , it’s that simple. That kind of schlock is most definitely produced, but no one buys it, because it’s boring and it sucks. People want conflict and escapism in their entertainment and so that’s what they pay for. You can go to Netflix right now and watch Kirk Cameron in the Left Behind series if you’d like, but why would you do that to yourself when you could watch literally anything else? Which show would you rather watch, a show where a bunch of Christians sit around being good to each other or a show where a serial killer is the protagonist? One of those premises is infinitely more intriguing than the other and that’s why it is produced.

    Hollywood’s religion is money, and if they could make money churning out stories about faith and religious people doing great works they would do it eagerly. They can’t, so they don’t. That’s called the free market, I thought you guys were supposed to know about this stuff?

    How about even bringing in gays, you know, like a gay man who moves out on his boyfriend when he finds that that latter had been cheating on him. He has to move in with his brother who, once a wastrel, saw the light when he fell for a fetching Evangelical (or Mormon?) woman. The brother initially refuses to put him up in their guest house because of his “lifestyle,” but his wife presses him to show some Christian compassion.

    Their pastor (or Bishop, if they’re Mormon) acknowledges that he is wrestling with church doctrine on sexuality and encourages the (straight) couple to treat the gay relative decently, to encourage him to come to church. (And, heck, maybe the gay guy “at sea” since his relationship falls apart, talks to said minister who, through the young man, realizes that one man can truly, romantically love another.)

    And we’ll add in a happy gay couple who can’t put our hero up because they’re taking care of the mother of one of the men–and trying to adopt. So, we’ll balance the happy religious couple with the happy gay couple.

    (For the record, since reading the article this weekend, I have mapped out a TV series based on the above idea, even outlined the pilot.)

    *and gays.

    That does not sound like a good TV show. Is it supposed to be, like, a sitcom? A drama? What’s funny or interesting about a brother having to be leaned on by his wife to take in his own brother? You want your show to portray religion in a positive light, and yet you have someone so attached to their new religion that they wouldn’t take in their own brother? The positive bit is supposed to come when the wife gets her husband to show compassion towards his own brother? You basically have religion solving a problem that religion created. It cancels itself out. At best, all that says about religion is that it’s a useless diversion that takes extra time to arrive at simple solutions. Everyone knows the moral thing to do in that situation is to take in the brother, and you expect people to watch a show where that’s up for debate? Yawn.

    As for Newt’s comments, they’re stupid and incredibly selective. If you think that Hollywood is in any way averse to portraying Islam in a negative light, you should watch any action movie from the last 20 years or so. Chances are very good that the antagonist will be Muslim or Middle Eastern. Meanwhile, Newt is complaining about the title of a TV show he has never seen because it says Christian and Bitches in the title. Of course, the show itself is another by-the-numbers primetime soap opera that doesn’t focus on Christianity or religion in any way, but I guess that won’t stop a desperate Presidential candidate.

    It’s also tremendously ironic for someone to complain about an imagined slight against his own religion by comparing how thin-skinned some other religion’s adherents are!

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 9:51 am - March 14, 2012

  32. And of course, Levi, you demonstrate Newt’s point, which is the stroke and calls for taking the network off the air for a show called “Good Muslim Bitches” that would be coming from you and your fellow Obama leftists.

    You support any namecalling and insults against Christians while screaming that anything less than a 100% positive portrayal of Muslims is awful. You are a bigot.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 14, 2012 @ 10:04 am - March 14, 2012

  33. Hick evangelical “Christians” hate gay people. They always have. Driving off into a fantasyland where we all get along is a nice idea, but never going to happen.

    But while we’re at it – why not a show about mainline Protestants who actually DO care about gay people and want them to have equal rights? Such Christians are sadly under-represented in the media.

    Comment by Thomas — March 14, 2012 @ 10:06 am - March 14, 2012

  34. Given the things Levi’s said about Sarah Palin, if he called her a ‘bitch’ it would be a softening of his tone.

    OF course, how many seasons was 7th Heaven on? I know I know, data that conflicts with Levi’s belief in magic rocks.

    And shows like 7th Heaven PROVE there’s a market for such things.

    Comment by The Livewire — March 14, 2012 @ 10:36 am - March 14, 2012

  35. then there was Touched by an Angel back in the mid 90′s

    The Violin Lesson

    Apprenticed to jordan Du Bois, a violin maker, Monica must ensure he finishes a violin he started 30 years earlier on the Christmas his son was born. The unsuspecting father doesn’t realize Tony has come home for the holidays with a devastating secret, which the angel soon learns that Tony has Aids and has returned home to die. The truth comes out while father and son indulge in a lete night snack. Disappointed, Jordan distances himsself from Tony. Discovering the unfinished violin he had started those years ago, Monica learns that Tess had revealed herself to Jordan back then. She announced his son’s impending birth and also gave him a piece of wood. but Jordan never completed the instrument becauase a flaw in the grain has appeared when he startted planing the wood. Showing Monica the scrap heap where imperfect wood is discarded, Tony confronts his father, who disowns him. After his health takes a turn for the worse, Tony enters an Aids hospice on Christmas Eve. His mother, Willa and sister, Nora attempt to persuade Jordan to visit with them but are unsuccessful. Later that evening, the dying attorney hears carols down the hall and tells his hospice worker, Tess he would like to see an angel. She reveals herself, saying he has not disappointed God, but he panics, thinking the revelation is a morphine-addicted hallucination. Back at the workshop, Monica appeals to jordan to reconcile with his son and is joined by a passionate Andrew. Jordan’s response is to smash the violin. Tess then admonishes him by not to judge him, just as he should not judge Tony. Monica reveals herself to Jordan, telling him God accepts Tony for who he is and urging him to do likewise. Miraculously, the ruined violin is restored, and he takes it with him to Tony. After reconciling wit his son, Jordan picks up the violin, and the blemish in the wood transforms into the shape of a christmas tree. He plays a lullaby as Tony succumbs to his illness and is greeted by Andrew.

    Comment by rusty — March 14, 2012 @ 10:53 am - March 14, 2012

  36. I have the best solution…at least for me. I just don’t watch any sitcoms..period. I find them to be only slightly less time wasting than reality shows.

    Comment by Linda Strickland — March 14, 2012 @ 11:03 am - March 14, 2012

  37. Re: Religion in TV.

    The Christmas Episode of Warehous 13 a couple years ago had a nice bit of recociliation of Artie and his Father, and Artie’s (Soviet) Jewish family history comes up.

    Re: Thomas

    Hick evangelical “Christians” hate gay people. They always have. Driving off into a fantasyland where we all get along is a nice idea, but never going to happen.

    Well if you’re an example of a typical liberal it’s pretty clear that getting along with you is indeed never going to happen. Speaking as a ‘hick evangelical Christian’ of course.

    Comment by The Livewire — March 14, 2012 @ 11:14 am - March 14, 2012

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  41. “Shows like that can’t compete , it’s that simple.”

    It actually isn’t that simple. Movies like “The Blind Side” are exactly what is needed. It is heroic uplifting stories that people like. Even now, people are enamored by Tim Tebow and Jeremy Lin, real Christians that have achieved success (and setbacks). Their stories will resonate.

    Some here have said Liberal Christian stories will work. I’m skeptical. It is more of the same gay-friendly platitudes and it doesn’t change anything with what I regard as the disrespect for traditional and conservative Christian beliefs. I do regard sin as immovable and homosexuality is a sin. The mistake is lessening the sin of homosexuality. Downgrading of one sin will downgrade other sins. These things go hand in hand.

    If you want to combine traditional/evangelical Christianity and gays, how about a story about where common ground can actually be found. Christian Theology isn’t about stoning, or the metaphorical stoning either. It is about faith, repentence, and redemption. I know this will be for boring storytelling so let’s have a different approach that demolishes the constant criticism of backwardness.

    A gay confronts a pastor on theology. Another gay seeks guidance and counseling. A gay reveals his feelings to another. A mother confronts his son or daughter. How would they react in reality?

    So much of what I read is mostly about prejudicial beliefs from gays on how other people will react. They are confused because most people don’t care. Gays are 1 to 3 percent of the population. Most people do not encounter them. So some gays resort to getting into their faces. This gay marriage thing is almost like the gay’s last stand. Then what? I’m almost resigned to its inevitability, but surely it really won’t end. The immolation of society’s Christian culture continues.

    Comment by anon23532 — March 14, 2012 @ 1:58 pm - March 14, 2012

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  43. It actually isn’t that simple. Movies like “The Blind Side” are exactly what is needed. It is heroic uplifting stories that people like. Even now, people are enamored by Tim Tebow and Jeremy Lin, real Christians that have achieved success (and setbacks). Their stories will resonate.

    No, it is that simple. If there were money to be made selling Christian morality tales, they would be doing it. There isn’t, so they don’t. By all means, if you think that there is some glaring absence in the industry that is leaving billions of dollars in revenue on the table, then why don’t you get on with producing these films?

    Some here have said Liberal Christian stories will work. I’m skeptical. It is more of the same gay-friendly platitudes and it doesn’t change anything with what I regard as the disrespect for traditional and conservative Christian beliefs. I do regard sin as immovable and homosexuality is a sin. The mistake is lessening the sin of homosexuality. Downgrading of one sin will downgrade other sins. These things go hand in hand.

    If you want to combine traditional/evangelical Christianity and gays, how about a story about where common ground can actually be found. Christian Theology isn’t about stoning, or the metaphorical stoning either. It is about faith, repentence, and redemption. I know this will be for boring storytelling so let’s have a different approach that demolishes the constant criticism of backwardness.

    A gay confronts a pastor on theology. Another gay seeks guidance and counseling. A gay reveals his feelings to another. A mother confronts his son or daughter. How would they react in reality?

    Who cares how they would react? It’s a stupid, fabricated dilemma in the first place with absolutely nothing at stake. I happen to think that you could make an interesting movie about pretty much anything, but I can’t think of anything more boring than watching any of these scenarios. Why should I care about somebody struggling to come to grips with inconsequential and arbitrary limitations they’ve been brainwashed to think are important?

    So much of what I read is mostly about prejudicial beliefs from gays on how other people will react. They are confused because most people don’t care. Gays are 1 to 3 percent of the population. Most people do not encounter them. So some gays resort to getting into their faces. This gay marriage thing is almost like the gay’s last stand. Then what? I’m almost resigned to its inevitability, but surely it really won’t end.

    You know why you’re resigned to its inevitably? Because deep down you know your opposition to it is completely arbitrary and that its widespread adoption will have absolutely no ill effects on the broader society. This is an expression of your innate sense of fairness struggling against the decades of religious indoctrination you’ve no doubt endured. If you really believed that God cared about something so clearly insignificant, you’d be putting up more of a fight. But you know it’s bullshit, don’t you?

    The immolation of society’s Christian culture continues.

    This isn’t a Christian society. Christian society is thankfully a thing of the past that featured lots of horrible stuff like the feudal system, witch burnings, inquisitions, and lots and lots of war. The society you live in is a product of the Enlightenment, which explicitly rejected religious authoritarianism and lead to all this great stuff like free speech, representative government, and free markets. You’d like your religion to take credit for all of that, but the truth is that religion has always held back progress. Christianity lags behind secularism on all manners of morality, contemporary issues like gay marriage and contraception are perfect examples.

    Stop saying crap like that. You and I don’t kill people because we know it’s wrong, not because we live in a Christian society. Take some responsibility for yourself and don’t shy away from taking credit for being a good person.

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 4:43 pm - March 14, 2012

  44. Actually, Levi, you’re not a good person.

    You support and endorse killing children because they’re inconvenient.

    You support and endorse voter fraud, tax fraud, and welfare fraud for Obama Party leaders and politicians like Charles Rangel, Tim Geithner, and the like.

    You scream and rant about the rich, then support and endorse multimillionaires like Nancy Pelosi and Michelle Obama throwing lavish parties and demanding special food to be paid for out of taxpayer funds.

    You have insisted that torture is always wrong, then support torture when Obama does it.

    You have insisted that killings were always wrong, then support them when Obama does it.

    You have insisted that wars are always wrong, then support them when Obama enters them.

    You hate and detest any form of religious belief — except militant Islam — and demand that anyone holding religious beliefs be banned from speaking of them publicly or holding public office, unless of course they’re Obama Party members.

    You are one of the biggest homophobes and hatemongers on the planet against gays and lesbians who dare talk back to or disagree with you.

    And finally, you do support killing other people with whom you disagree, all of which you justify due to their opposition to the Glorious Socialist Obama.

    So that’s why we all laugh at your attempt to seize the moral high ground. We know that you, like your Obama and like your Obama Party, care about nothing but power, and will justify and rationalize any action, no matter how repulsive, against people who you think stand in the way of your absolute power.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 14, 2012 @ 5:33 pm - March 14, 2012

  45. I do regard sin as immovable and homosexuality is a sin. The mistake is lessening the sin of homosexuality.

    Anon, part of the problem is we really don’t know exactly what is sin, especially when it comes to homosexuality. Maybe you have an in that most of us don’t, but it’s still up for debate.

    Maybe sin is supposed to be unchanging as you suggest. However, attitudes have changed. Even someone as anti-gay as you associates with us “sinners.” Even Seane-Anna says that we should be treated with love and kindness. This was definitely not the case until very recently.

    So much of what I read is mostly about prejudicial beliefs from gays on how other people will react. They are confused because most people don’t care. Gays are 1 to 3 percent of the population. Most people do not encounter them. So some gays resort to getting into their faces.

    Regardless of the percentage of the gay population, gay people are aware as to how people have reacted to them. So I imagine those who were involved in such a situation do care. As to “most people don’t encounter them,” it seems to me that today, only people who live under a rock do not encounter gay people, even without getting into people’s faces.

    The immolation of society’s Christian culture continues.

    Christian culture has had it’s ups and down. I have to say that Christian culture is near its apex right now. But maybe things are on a downswing at the moment. If it continues, it may be because of something you suggested that the downgrading of homosexuality as a sin will downgrade other sins. If you and many others continue have that attitude, you may be right about cultural decline.

    Comment by Pat — March 14, 2012 @ 5:55 pm - March 14, 2012

  46. Hollywood’s religion is money, and if they could make money churning out stories about faith and religious people doing great works they would do it eagerly.

    This lefty talking point is bullcrap.

    1. Christian themed movies make more money than secular themed movies, according to that thing Levi hates and doesn’t understand. What’s it called? Oh, yeah. “Math.”

    2. Anti-War movies, on the other hand, are invariably money losers, but Hollywood churns them out with great regularity.

    Comment by V the K — March 14, 2012 @ 6:02 pm - March 14, 2012

  47. Christian themed movies make more money than secular themed movies.

    Comment by V the K — March 14, 2012 @ 6:03 pm - March 14, 2012

  48. A gay lib once said to me, “Of course I hate Christians, I’ve had some bad experiences with them.” I replied, “I’ve had bad experience with some black people; is it okay for me to be racist?”

    Comment by V the K — March 14, 2012 @ 6:04 pm - March 14, 2012

  49. Levi, you say that religious limitations on homosexuality are arbitrary. I, of course, disagree, but even if I agreed with your premise, how is secularism not arbitrary? Secularism approves of and supports homosexuality. You believe that makes secularism morally superior to religion. But on what objective, transcendent moral code does secularism base its assertion that homosexuality is good? If you’re going to condemn religion for (supposedly) being arbitrary, then you’re going to have to explain how and why secularism isn’t arbitrary. Waiting.

    Comment by Seane-Anna — March 14, 2012 @ 6:43 pm - March 14, 2012

  50. V the K at #48, BRILLIANT!!!!!

    Comment by Seane-Anna — March 14, 2012 @ 6:43 pm - March 14, 2012

  51. we could set it in the South…And your idea would help present a more positive image of the South;

    Oh good. A show set in the South written by an Ohioan. Just what we need. ;-)

    Comment by TGC — March 14, 2012 @ 7:03 pm - March 14, 2012

  52. “You know why you’re resigned to its inevitably? Because deep down you know your opposition to it is completely arbitrary and that its widespread adoption will have absolutely no ill effects on the broader society.”

    Levi: This is what you wish. My mind hasn’t changed about gay marriage. I don’t believe the reasons to be against gay marriage is arbitrary. I consider the way the law and judges work and the momentum to get gay marriage legalized has made it impossible to stop. I am resigned that gay marriage inevitable.

    I have seen how giving gays a legal alternative to marriage has resulted in marriage being compromised. The law work to twist things completely around to where if you want to move into a new direction, it can be achieved indirectly. To move from A to B, let’s move to C and then redirect to B.

    “only people who live under a rock do not encounter gay people, even without getting into people’s faces.”

    Pat: I live in Los Angeles County, California. In my daily life, I don’t encounter any gays. It is possible certainly. I can count the decades when I last seen them or worked with them, but the funny thing is they don’t announce their orientation or openly acknowledged it. Thus, I can state that I don’t encounter them. I can state with a straight face that I only see gays on television and especially in the news, thus IN MY FACE.

    Comment by anon23532 — March 14, 2012 @ 7:08 pm - March 14, 2012

  53. #15

    it’s a bit disingenuous to complain about the “mistreatment” of a mainstream religion when the other minority religion he mentions is frequently the target of stereotyping, fear mongering, and discrimination. No one ever complains about Christian law being recognized by our courts.

    There is a good reason for that. Sharia law is evil and backwards. It oppresses women, calls for gays to be executed, calls for apostates to be severely punished and often executed, and prevents the freedom of speech (among other things). There is no way Sharia law would ever be constitutional in the United States.

    In short, Islam and Christianity are too different to be effectively compared.

    Furthermore, it is often common sense to discriminate. Politically correct notions of “anti-discrimination” rules/laws are lunacy.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 14, 2012 @ 7:16 pm - March 14, 2012

  54. Okay, Anon. So in a place such as Los Angeles, which probably has a higher percentage of gays than most, you don’t encounter them. My conclusion (to which you alluded to) is that you do encounter them, but they don’t announce or acknowledge it. So, it appears that away from the tube, gay persons are not in your face. As for TV and news, you may have something there. I guess since I’m used to seeing gay people, it’s not out of the ordinary to see gay characters or gay persons in the news. It doesn’t seem any more in my face than the straight people we see on TV shows or the news.

    Comment by Pat — March 14, 2012 @ 7:24 pm - March 14, 2012

  55. Rattlesnake, most of what you said about Islam today was true about Christianity 500 years ago. However, we did something right in the Western World to rein in on Christianity, and it has served all concerned (including Christianity) pretty well. As such, there is absolutely no place for Sharia Law in the U.S.

    Comment by Pat — March 14, 2012 @ 7:45 pm - March 14, 2012

  56. I have seen how giving gays a legal alternative to marriage has resulted in marriage being compromised.

    I think straight people did that themselves (with no-fault divorce, for example).

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 14, 2012 @ 7:49 pm - March 14, 2012

  57. Rattlesnake, most of what you said about Islam today was true about Christianity 500 years ago.

    That is beside the point. How the religions were in the past is irrelevant to my point.

    Also, Christianity has evolved for the better (as you said). Islam also has, but to a much lesser extent (and in some places, it hasn’t). So, what you said is more of an indictment of Islam than it is of Christianity (not that your intention was to indict Christianity or defend Islam, which I don’t think it was).

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 14, 2012 @ 7:57 pm - March 14, 2012

  58. Rattlesnake, I see your point about 500 years ago being irrelevant, but I think it is sometimes important to get some historical perspective.

    In any case, what I said is definitely more of an indictment of Islam than it is of Christianity.

    Comment by Pat — March 14, 2012 @ 8:04 pm - March 14, 2012

  59. Islam is evolving. It is evolving into something violent and terrible because Secularists refuse to hold its adherents accountable and idiotically compare it to Christianity.

    Comment by V the K — March 14, 2012 @ 8:14 pm - March 14, 2012

  60. V the K, I did make a comparison, idiotically or otherwise, with the hope that we can deal with the Islamic violence, just as our ancestors dealt with the Christian violence. It may turn out we are dealing with two totally different situations. I agree we do need to hold its adherents accountable, in particular, the violent ones.

    Comment by Pat — March 14, 2012 @ 8:31 pm - March 14, 2012

  61. It may turn out we are dealing with two totally different situations.

    Of course the two situations are different. Nuclear weapons are involved, as is the complex situation in the Middle East and elsewhere, and there are also many suicidally ignorant people who are apparently willfully blind to the nature of Islam in the name of political correctness and multiculturalism (many of whom are quite powerful). I am not saying that some historical context is necessarily useless, nor does that render the comparison between modern day Islam and Christianity 500 years ago null. I have no knowledge of Christianity 500 years ago, so I can’t say.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 14, 2012 @ 8:49 pm - March 14, 2012

  62. Levi, you say that religious limitations on homosexuality are arbitrary. I, of course, disagree, but even if I agreed with your premise, how is secularism not arbitrary? Secularism approves of and supports homosexuality. You believe that makes secularism morally superior to religion. But on what objective, transcendent moral code does secularism base its assertion that homosexuality is good? If you’re going to condemn religion for (supposedly) being arbitrary, then you’re going to have to explain how and why secularism isn’t arbitrary. Waiting.

    Oh, you religious weirdos with your ‘objective, transcendent moral code’. Can you not see how convenient it is that this code has only been revealed to you? How arbitrary is that? And why does God make gay people if homosexuality is a sin? I seriously question the morality of the referee from which your ‘objective, transcendent moral codes’ emanate if he decides to make people who can’t help but break his own rules inherently.

    And anyway, as I understand the Christian faith, the only moral choice one ever has to make is whether or not they prostrate themselves before the Christian god. Every instance of lying, stealing, murder, and genocide in the past 2000 years were pre-forgiven when Jesus died on the cross, and the only thing you need to do to be right by God is to accept Jesus as your personal savior. This is a moral code for people to be proud of?

    Secularism is the result of centuries of a reasoning, science, and philosophy, so it’s not arbitrary at all. We have a much better understanding of the universe and of our planet and of human nature because of the work done in these fields, and the conclusions we can derive from this work are based on a real, natural order and hard data. Secularists aren’t just making shit up to be upset about, arbitrarily, which is pretty much the only thing that religion is capable of doing this day.

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 9:53 pm - March 14, 2012

  63. Secularism isn’t arbitrary, Levi? It’s based on “centuries of reasoning, science,…philosophy [and] a real, natural order and hard data?” So then, Levi, how do you explain how some secularists support homosexuality and others have/do not? Are they not looking at the same “hard data” about human nature? So, if secularists aren’t arbitrary, shouldn’t they all come to the same conclusions? Oh, and Levi, what makes you think secularism’s hands are so clean? What about the 100,000,000 people slaughtered by atheist regimes in the name of creating a godless utopia? The attempt to eradicate religion was more murderous than all the religious wars combined. But I don’t expect you to care, Levi. What’s a few million deaths compared to a world without faith?

    Comment by Seane-Anna — March 14, 2012 @ 10:29 pm - March 14, 2012

  64. [...] Gay Patriot – How about a TV series treating Christians* with dignity? [...]

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  65. Secularists aren’t just making shit up to be upset about, arbitrarily, which is pretty much the only thing that religion is capable of doing this day.

    Global Warmism, Alar on apples, Republican War on Women etc.

    This is a moral code for people to be proud of?

    Beats your moral code of hatred and bigotry, I’d say.

    Comment by TGC — March 14, 2012 @ 10:54 pm - March 14, 2012

  66. As an Empiricist, I embrace Christianity for the simple reason that I have observed that people who are Christian live happier, more fulfilled lives. I have tried Christianity for myself and I have seen that it works; something the overwhelming majority of its critics have not done.

    I have observed in the non-religious strident tendencies toward intolerance, hatred, and selfishness. Levi embodies all of these traits.

    Comment by V the K — March 14, 2012 @ 10:55 pm - March 14, 2012

  67. Secularism isn’t arbitrary, Levi? It’s based on “centuries of reasoning, science,…philosophy [and] a real, natural order and hard data?” So then, Levi, how do you explain how some secularists support homosexuality and others have/do not? Are they not looking at the same “hard data” about human nature? So, if secularists aren’t arbitrary, shouldn’t they all come to the same conclusions? Oh, and Levi, what makes you think secularism’s hands are so clean? What about the 100,000,000 people slaughtered by atheist regimes in the name of creating a godless utopia? The attempt to eradicate religion was more murderous than all the religious wars combined. But I don’t expect you to care, Levi. What’s a few million deaths compared to a world without faith?

    I’m reasonably confident than in my entire life, I’ve never seen anyone say anything negative about homosexuality that wasn’t derived from some form of religious dogma. What are the secular arguments against homosexuality? Who is making them? Bring them forth if you can, and I will chastise them too for being silly and picking their positions arbitrarily.

    No one ever attempted to eradicate religion – the dictators of the 20th century only intended to replace the objects of worship. As a means of controlling a population, religion proves extremely effective, and Hitler and Stalin wanted to be the icons at the altar. This is an insignificant change, mostly. It’s also worth noting that Stalin trained to be a priest in his youth and that the Vatican signed lots of treaties with the Nazis so embarrassing that they would have broken down their whole little circus if they had any sense of shame. ‘Atheist regimes’ these were not, despite what your religion would have you believe.

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 11:08 pm - March 14, 2012

  68. As an Empiricist, I embrace Christianity for the simple reason that I have observed that people who are Christian live happier, more fulfilled lives. I have tried Christianity for myself and I have seen that it works; something the overwhelming majority of its critics have not done.

    I have observed in the non-religious strident tendencies toward intolerance, hatred, and selfishness. Levi embodies all of these traits.

    If we’re passing off anecdotes as something meaningful, I guess I’ll just play the priests-molesting-kids-by-the-thousands-and-their-superiors-covering-it-up card.

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 11:15 pm - March 14, 2012

  69. Like I said, Levi is a bottomless spewer of hatred and ignorance and he epitomizes the anti-religious left. Does he condemn public education because of the thousands of children who’ve been molested by teachers? No, he does not.

    Christianity really works for those who choose to embrace it. And for those who rail against it, I can only imagine how empty their lives must be that they have to rage against the religiosity of others. I suspect it is because, deep down, they know they’re missing out on something profound and they resent it deeply.

    Comment by V the K — March 14, 2012 @ 11:20 pm - March 14, 2012

  70. Just pointing out, not all secular people are like Levi.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 14, 2012 @ 11:31 pm - March 14, 2012

  71. If we live through the next several years of financial ruin we can fight about this again, but, right now Obama is destroying EVERYTHING! We all must stop him, it’s that bad….

    Comment by jann — March 14, 2012 @ 11:47 pm - March 14, 2012

  72. Christianity really works for those who choose to embrace it. And for those who rail against it, I can only imagine how empty their lives must be that they have to rage against the religiosity of others. I suspect it is because, deep down, they know they’re missing out on something profound and they resent it deeply.

    If you think lying to yourself about the nature of the universe and your own mortality is profound, I will leave you to it. I am thrilled to be alive in a time when our species is producing so much information about the real nature of the universe that it is impossible to keep up. It’s exciting to think about the future of our species and the potential we have. I’m in awe of our tremendous responsibility as sentient beings to investigate and explore and survive in what is an extremely hostile and unsentimental universe. It sucks that I have to die, there’s more to see and do than I have time for, but I’m grateful for the time I get. In the end, we’ll probably go extinct after some global calamity, and if that fails, the sun will burn out in 4 billion years, and if that fails, the Andromeda Galaxy is headed on a collision course with the Milky Way, which will obliterate every trace of our existence in an explosion of extraordinary magnitude. What can we do but be grateful that we had any time at all, and hope against hope that some form of life carries on?

    You want someone to punch your ticket to a theme park after you keel over, how profound is that? You hope you get to live forever because some other human being that couldn’t know more about it than you told you it may be possible. How profound is that? Have fun in your small existence with your small god, await the apocalypse like it’s something to look forward to if you must, but please don’t think that there’s anything profound about your wish-thinking.

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 11:56 pm - March 14, 2012

  73. Oh and who could forget the scientician asserted Death du Jour of the evils of “Pink Slime”, which is an even more manufactured and processed can of BS than the beef product.

    Comment by TGC — March 15, 2012 @ 12:17 am - March 15, 2012

  74. I am thrilled to be alive in a time when our species is producing so much information about the real nature of the universe that it is impossible to keep up.

    If it makes the HuffingtonPlagiarism, it must be true.

    Comment by TGC — March 15, 2012 @ 12:18 am - March 15, 2012

  75. It’s exciting to think about the future of our species and the potential we have. I’m in awe of our tremendous responsibility as sentient beings to investigate and explore and survive in what is an extremely hostile and unsentimental universe. It sucks that I have to die, there’s more to see and do than I have time for, but I’m grateful for the time I get.

    Comment by Levi — March 14, 2012 @ 11:56 pm – March 14, 2012

    Says the person who justifies murdering over 1 million humans annually in the United States alone, snuffing out their lives, their potential accomplishments, and their chance to live.

    That’s what puts the lie to your statements, Levi. If you truly believed what you’re spewing, you would value human life. But as we’ve seen, you don’t value human life; you view it as an inconvenience to be killed at your pleasure.

    Religious belief at its core values life as something special. Secularist bigots like yourself are nothing more than death-worshipers.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 15, 2012 @ 2:30 am - March 15, 2012

  76. And in response to being called out on spewing ignorance and bigotry… our favorite poster boy for progressive atheism spews more ignorance and bigotry. And demonstrates he knows nothing about Christianity beyond the cartoon caricatures of it his type creates in order to reassure themselves of its failings.

    Comment by V the K — March 15, 2012 @ 5:39 am - March 15, 2012

  77. If you think lying to yourself about the nature of the universe and your own mortality is profound, I will leave you to it.

    Says the boy who believes in magic rocks.

    Now hush Levi, the adults are talking.

    Comment by The Livewire — March 15, 2012 @ 8:36 am - March 15, 2012

  78. Livewire, I don’t know about magic rocks, but I do believe the Big Bang was caused by Pop Rocks and soda.

    Comment by Pat — March 15, 2012 @ 12:10 pm - March 15, 2012

  79. @Pat
    *heh*

    Comment by The Livewire — March 15, 2012 @ 12:45 pm - March 15, 2012

  80. Shows like that can’t compete , it’s that simple. That kind of schlock is most definitely produced, but no one buys it, because it’s boring and it sucks. People want conflict and escapism in their entertainment and so that’s what they pay for.

    Coincidentally, I’ve just been reading A Canticle for Leibowitz — which mixes entertaining conflict and escapism like a devoutly Catholic abbot and an equally conscientious military doctor arguing over the ethics of euthanasia for dying H-bomb victims in a 36th-century war, together with boring sucky schlock about RADIOACTIVE MUTANT CANNIBALS.

    I’m not sure how well it would adapt for TV, though.

    P.S. Sancte Leibowitz, ora pro Levi…

    Comment by Throbert McGee — March 15, 2012 @ 5:52 pm - March 15, 2012

  81. Throbert at least has bothered to learn something about the religion he rejects. Levi just revels in his ignorance and spouts off like a fool.

    Comment by V the K — March 15, 2012 @ 7:49 pm - March 15, 2012

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