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The smallness of the haters on the left

There comes a moment in the lives of most gay conservative when the outrage we feel at intolerant attitudes toward and mean-spirted reaction to our politics becomes amusement at the narrow-mindedness and short-sightedness of our left-of-center gay peers unable to understand the ideas of their ideological adversaries.  I receive reports on a near daily basis from gay Republican peers about Facebook “friends” “defriending” them for daring to disagree with their opinions of the president — or registering their own as Republicans.

Not to mention the nasty response we often hear when we offer opinions at odd with gay orthodoxy.  And sometimes we don’t even need identify ourselves as gay Republicans to experience the hatred some gay liberals feel for gay conservatives.  Just yesterday, I quipped that we “must always be suspicious of anyone who spends his life defining himself by what he is not — or making much of those he dislikes” in response to a liberal friend’s link to a blog post about an “ex-gay” video.

Shortly after my comment, a gay liberal chimed in, “self loathing gay men [Log Cabin?] are a bit strange!”  Another would offer (all caps in original, “REPUBLICAN –GAY = OXYMORON…OR IS IT JUST MORON? I FORGET.”

Do wonder why these guys hate so much.  And wonder as well if some of them have joined campaigns against H8, i.e., those opposing state recognition of same-sex marriage.

You look at these people, smile in amusement at their smallness, shake your head and feel sorry for them — for lacking the capacity to realize that someone can have different opinions from their own for sound reasons — and without harboring sinister motives.

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102 Comments

  1. a gay liberal chimed in, “self loathing gay men [Log Cabin?] are a bit strange!”

    One thing I’ve noticed about lefties (and their fellow travellers) is, many of them project. Real self-loathing is a gay man who:

    – Doesn’t understand the real threats to his liberty (Muslims; Big Government in general; and Obamacare with its coming death panels “ethics boards”).
    – Spews outrage on safe targets only: faux non-threats to his liberty (Christians and other conservatives).
    – Either lacks the self-respect to have a job/career (preferring government dependency) or, if indeed he has a job/career, happily supports a government that will take >50% of his earnings – making him basically a slave.
    – Goes on about gay marriage a great deal, perhaps, but then supports a candidate who is against it, and who is responsible for other threats mentioned above, namely Obama.

    I struggle with the question of whether leftism necessarily implies (or goes with, or is caused by) a dark, narcissistic lust for power. Since leftism-in-action always involves using government to force individuals to submit to the collective, and since many leftists show lots of hostility and unhappiness together with self-pity, the answer would seem to be yes. But there are still a few left-leaning people left in the world who display better traits: secure in themselves, able to tolerate differences, etc.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 19, 2012 @ 7:23 pm - March 19, 2012

  2. Well, it is also true for conservative women, who can be called the most awful things without remorse, followed by accusations of being racists and/or “dumb twats” because a) I am pro-life and b) I do not cheer for liberal feminism and vote based off of my anatomy (as if those liberal elites know what’s best for my gender.)

    I like to think I am probably more accepting of those who are different from me. I like to debate and I like having my perspective challenged since that is the only way I can grow intellectually and spiritually.

    But, I imagine to my liberal friends I am not but they certainly are. After all, the “Coexist” bumper stickers that I see reflect the reality of the world we live in, yes? Especially when the cross or Star of David is/are marked out (have actually seen that in Denver on a number of cars), homosexuals and women are experiencing a conservative-led war on them in the US (beheadings and stonings conducted in other nations aside), and that the idea that only though a liberal ideology can humanity experience true freedom (dictated by your ruling class of elites, who know best for us peasants.) Yep. I am the dumb and useful idiot in this scenario.

    Comment by hellocat — March 19, 2012 @ 7:40 pm - March 19, 2012

  3. Was listening to Adam Corolla. A newly minted athiest wanted to know how to break the news to his religious family. Adam got to the crux of the issue – its not about sharing with family – its about being in your face.
    Basically the left in a nut shell. Its about anger, hate and throwing it all in other peoples face.
    Ah the tolerant left.

    Comment by Leah — March 19, 2012 @ 8:04 pm - March 19, 2012

  4. Frankly, some of the most vile treatment of a human being I have ever whitnessed has been dealt by progressive homosexuals to their conservative counterparts.

    Comment by Richard Bell — March 20, 2012 @ 12:16 am - March 20, 2012

  5. Here is something that I don’t get about the gay left : My partner and I like to take transatlantic cruises. We don’t do the “gay” cruise thing. First, gay cruises are not offered for transatlantic cruises. Second, gay cruises are WAY over priced. When we have discussed/asked another gay couple to join us on a cruise, their response, “We couldn’t possibly be trapped for two weeks on a ship full of heterosexuals”.

    Now, if you reverse that, and a straight conservative couple said, “We couldn’t possibly be trapped for two weeks on a ship full of homosexuals”. What do you think the reaction of the gay left would be?

    Comment by TnnsNE1 — March 20, 2012 @ 9:11 am - March 20, 2012

  6. From here in the UK, it’s clear to me that the left don’t see individuals; they only see ‘ communities’ e.g the ‘Black community’, the ‘Asian community’, the ‘Gay community’ and if you’re a member of that ‘community’, you must be identical with all the other members of the ‘community’. For all their talk about ‘Diversity’ and ‘Tolerance’, leftists have none for anyone who steps outside of the presumed views of the group.

    Comment by Jonathan — March 20, 2012 @ 9:41 am - March 20, 2012

  7. “You look at these people, smile in amusement at their smallness, shake your head and feel sorry for them — for lacking the capacity to realize that someone can have different opinions from their own for sound reasons — and without harboring sinister motives”

    Dan, I do not know how you can possibly say that with a straight face and read the comments of your most faithful followers. Virtually anyone with even mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive, politics, who ventures to comment here is viscously attacked by many of your followers. Not only is everyone accused of “sinister motives”, disagreement with the politics of this site result in wild and often mentally unhinged accusations of pedophilia, supporters of child sexual slavery, suffering from “narcissistic lust for power” or other equally over the top accusations.

    A while back we had a view of what happens when there are no outsiders to attack–your more unhinged commenters resort to cannibalism as I witnessed in a horrifying, albeit, fascinating thread that went on for over 24 hours & over 150 comments, in a duel of who could say something wackier than the comment that preceded it.

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 11:57 am - March 20, 2012

  8. #7… Interesting that you leave out an analysis of what the “mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive” actually post. The “mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive”‘s adhere to the “Tea Party is Racist” label. Then by the same logic, “mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive”‘s are pedophiles because the Obama Administration supports “a” pedophile. To “mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive”‘s, a single racist Tea Party member represents the whole. Why aren’t conservatives allowed to use the same logic on “mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive”s?

    Comment by TnnsNE1 — March 20, 2012 @ 12:44 pm - March 20, 2012

  9. This example is certainly not a reflection of those on the right, yet seems to represent some of the smallness of the haters on the right

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerfriedman/2012/03/17/exclusive-seller-of-controversial-anti-obama-sticker-says-its-not-racist/

    Exclusive: Paula Smith of Hinesville, Georgia has a company called Stickatude.com. And they’re selling their own version of an anti-Obama bumper sticker that reads “Don’t Re-Nig 2012.” Ms. Smith told me in a telephone conversation on Saturday afternoon that the bumper sticker has been in their inventory since June 2010, but just in the last few days it’s started selling. The price is $3. Ms. Smith insisted that  the bumper sticker is not racist. I asked her about the “N” word, for which “nig” is the shortened version. “According to the dictionary [the N word] does not mean black. It means a low down, lazy, sorry, low down person. That’s what the N word means.”

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 1:03 pm - March 20, 2012

  10. #9… is that better, worse or equal to Bush^t or chimp stickers? Can I call our current POTUS a “chimp”?

    Comment by TnnsNE1 — March 20, 2012 @ 1:11 pm - March 20, 2012

  11. You can find those bumper stickers online depicting Obama as a chimp.

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 1:13 pm - March 20, 2012

  12. Here are some more TnnsNE1

    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/gallery/image/raciststicker1png

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 1:19 pm - March 20, 2012

  13. Rusty,

    It doesn’t answer the question. Is it equal or worse than Chimpy McHitler and if so why?

    Comment by The Livewire — March 20, 2012 @ 2:03 pm - March 20, 2012

  14. Rusty :

    Would you like me to link to the left’s hatred of Women, Conservative, Asians, Jews, Mormons, Catholics, etc?

    Is one form of hatred better or worse than another form of hatred?

    If so, which is the better?

    Comment by TnnsNE1 — March 20, 2012 @ 2:29 pm - March 20, 2012

  15. Certainly not worse, chimp, chump, monkey on the back. . .folk dissatisfied, disappointed and even angry, act out, and pop off with disparaging comments.

    What is amazing that folk can use horse’s ash, dumbo, and other analogies.

    What is amazing is when it slips into racist undertones. And overt statements

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 2:32 pm - March 20, 2012

  16. Just pointing out, that folk left, right and center can all come across as HATERs

    Tis frustrating times

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 2:35 pm - March 20, 2012

  17. Dan, I do not know how you can possibly say that with a straight face and read the comments of your most faithful followers. Virtually anyone with even mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive, politics, who ventures to comment here is viscously attacked by many of your followers. Not only is everyone accused of “sinister motives”, disagreement with the politics of this site result in wild and often mentally unhinged accusations of pedophilia, supporters of child sexual slavery, suffering from “narcissistic lust for power” or other equally over the top accusations.

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 11:57 am – March 20, 2012

    Because, Brendan, Dan has seen what you and your fellow gays and lesbians like Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Rob Tisinai, Jeremy Hooper, Evan Hurst, and Wayne Besen not only consider acceptable, but say, quote, “everything he said is true, and then some.”, when talking about Dan.

    And he’s also seen what you and all of these folk consider acceptable to say about other conservatives, even branding those who disagree with such statements as “homophobic”.

    So your whining is exposed as exactly what it is — an attempt to exploit the decency of others to shut them up while you and your fellow bigots slander them left and right.

    And what is particularly useful is that it demonstrates how empty rusty’s blathering about “haters” is, given that he’s never seen fit to call out Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Rob Tisinai, Jeremy Hooper, Evan Hurst, and Wayne Besen for saying those things about Dan or about Trig Palin.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 20, 2012 @ 3:31 pm - March 20, 2012

  18. It is always good to have ND30 around to prove my point.

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 4:44 pm - March 20, 2012

  19. Bad Joe, bad Pam, bad Rob, bad Jeremy, bad Evan, bad Wayne, and just for good measure, bad Jim and Tim, you should all be ashamed.

    Is that better NDT, this is my stern, condemning stance

    http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l569/rusty98119/yellowstone.jpg

    But I do love reading their their blogs.

    And now let’s all picture miss Rita beads with here hands on her hips.

    Quick question Dan, do you practice that pose in the mirrors at the gym?

    Smooches

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 4:56 pm - March 20, 2012

  20. Virtually anyone with even mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive, politics, who ventures to comment here is viscously attacked by many of your followers.

    That is not because of their politics. Many lefties who comment here are belligerent, supercilious, histrionic, narcissistic, hypocritical, ignorant, disingenuous, and/or irritatingly passive-aggressive. I can think of one liberal commenter who is none of those things, and he is accordingly treated respectfully (from what I have seen).

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 20, 2012 @ 4:56 pm - March 20, 2012

  21. I can think of one liberal commenter who is none of those things, and he is accordingly treated respectfully

    At least one, yes.

    And it’s funny how Brendan’s rant quoted me… but did absolutely nothing to refute my points.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 20, 2012 @ 5:10 pm - March 20, 2012

  22. Yes, rusty, we are aware that you and Brendan support and endorse saying these sort of things about Dan:

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    Including the blogs of people like Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst, for example, who say about the previous statement:

    I won’t quote it here because this is a family blog, but suffice it to say that everything he said is true, and then some.

    Now rusty, and for that matter Brendan, what we’re trying to harmonize is how you can gush about how much you “love” the blogs that are writing things like the above while being so upset over being “attacked” by commenters here.

    The immediate and logical answer is that you don’t really care about the attacks or the idea of “wild and often mentally unhinged accusations” when they’re directed at the correct target.

    Which makes your complaints rather hypocritical and bigoted.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 20, 2012 @ 5:15 pm - March 20, 2012

  23. ND30 this is quite typical of your insane form of argument. You pull a quote of the wide world of the internet, from a posting that I have not seen until you reference it and somehow in your tospy turvey (probalby highly medicated brain) I am responsible for the comment. This is sheer lunacy.

    ILC Though you don’t argue with the same viscous style of ND30, you do share a penchant for stating vague generalities such as “Either lacks the self-respect to have a job/career (preferring governent dependency) or, if indeed he has a job/career, happily supports a government that will take >50% of his earnings – making him basically a slave.” What does this mean, does it mean anything?

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 5:24 pm - March 20, 2012

  24. NDT, you might wanna check in with BDB. I admire Dan and compliment him quite regularly about GP.

    If memory serves me, you be the one that likes to bring up the image that was photoshopped. I loved that pic of BDB holding his nephew.

    So, back to that hands on hip pose, miss Rita. And slightly snap your neck when you finger point.

    Smooches http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l569/rusty98119/smooch.jpg

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 5:25 pm - March 20, 2012

  25. Now this is a picture joy and happiness

    http://www.gaypatriot.net/2009/02/16/uncle-nephew-bonding/

    And with 25 plus years of working with children and families and 15 years as an infant-toddler specialist, I am quite familiar with such joy and happiness.

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 5:31 pm - March 20, 2012

  26. “Either lacks the self-respect to have a job/career (preferring governent dependency) or, if indeed he has a job/career, happily supports a government that will take >50% of his earnings – making him basically a slave.” What does this mean

    Is it a reading comprehension issue, Brendan? I said exactly what it means: Real self-loathing would be a gay man (or woman, whatever) who acts like the above. As is often found (one or the other, of the 2 cases I gave) on the Gay Left.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 20, 2012 @ 5:33 pm - March 20, 2012

  27. To spell it out:

    – Gay men who spend years getting whatever welfare they can from the government (and I’ve known a few): Self-loathing.

    – Gay men who don’t, but who instead support the government taxing them to the point where they work more from the government than themselves (more than 50% of their income going to the government): Self-loathing.

    Both may be found here and there among gay conservatives, but much more likely on the left.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 20, 2012 @ 5:36 pm - March 20, 2012

  28. Sorry typo, “…they work more –for– the government than themselves…”

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 20, 2012 @ 5:38 pm - March 20, 2012

  29. “and I’ve known a few”. What compelling evidence! What next, excerpts from Ayn Rand novels?

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 7:40 pm - March 20, 2012

  30. NDT,

    I absolutely had to look at the link in #22 just to make sure that you had not gone around the bend.

    What I found there is the most pernicious, loathsome character assassination for the pure sake of being vile that I believe I have ever seen.

    The type of pathology that leads any person to write and broadcast such evil intent is deeply disturbing, because you can not help but realize that the writer is fully satisfied with his decadent sliming of a fellow human being.

    Worse yet, is the fact that such offal attracts a swarm of commenting flies who can’t help but pile on as they breathe in the stench and ingest the rot.

    If this is in any way a measure of how political adversaries in the gay “community” treat one another, I am delighted to be isolated from such a horde of imbeciles. My assumption, however, is that the debased character destruction of this type flow from the left and is piled on the right. Hopefully, gays on the right who would engage in such miserable, base bigotry would be shouted down by others on the right.

    Truly, I can not begin to express my disgust for such reprehensible smearing and bold satisfaction in posting it for one’s pride and delight in prejudice. How is this type of hatred any different from dragging the victim behind a pick-up truck until his skin comes off and all for being the “wrong” sort of gay?

    Comment by Heliotrope — March 20, 2012 @ 8:58 pm - March 20, 2012

  31. It’s funny how Brendan again responded to a comment of mine… but did absolutely nothing to refute my points.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 20, 2012 @ 9:05 pm - March 20, 2012

  32. “How is this type of hatred any different from dragging the victim behind a pick-up truck until his skin comes off and all for being the “wrong” sort of gay?”

    How is a photo shopped picture of a person holding a watermelon (again ND30, I have no connection to the picture other then you linking it, so calm down!)” different from “dragging the victim behind a pick-up truck until his skin comes off”? Wow, tough question, but if we put on our thinking caps really tight, we might come up with some distinctions.

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 9:15 pm - March 20, 2012

  33. How is a photo shopped picture of a person holding a watermelon

    Come on. You can’t seriously think anyone is dumb enough to fall for this obfuscation.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 20, 2012 @ 9:43 pm - March 20, 2012

  34. Hi ILC,
    How are

    – Either lacks the self-respect to have a job/career (preferring government dependency) or, if indeed he has a job/career, happily supports a government that will take >50% of his earnings

    and

    Real self-loathing would be a gay man (or woman, whatever) who acts like the above. As is often found (one or the other, of the 2 cases I gave) on the Gay Left.

    necessarily related with regards to being gay any way?

    It’s funny how Brendan again responded to a comment of mine… but did absolutely nothing to refute my points.

    I wonder if it is because it isn’t entirely clear (to me, at least) what you are arguing for here. If we were to swap out “gay man (or woman, whatever) ” and put in “someone” would it have made any real difference to the point you were making; i.e., just using a generalized critique of many people on the left being welfare recipients and thus full of “self-loathing”? Is that the point, rather than “left gay men…”?

    I would be very interested to know if self-loathing based on dependence on government largesse is really skewed heavily in a leftist direction, or do conservatives avail themselves of government largesse (and to what extent). If you have some evidence concerning U/E benefits distributed according to self-identified party affiliations, I would love to see that. And would this picture look different, when one takes into account different tax breaks as well as unemployment benefits.

    Hi RS,

    Many lefties who comment here are belligerent, supercilious, histrionic, narcissistic, hypocritical, ignorant, disingenuous, and/or irritatingly passive-aggressive.

    Let us grant your claim. It is not OK to act in this way. Does this excuse similar sorts of behaviour on this blog from those on the other side of the ideological fence? I don’t think it does, but it rarely gets called for what it is. It also isn’t at all clear to me that “liberals started it, so we will finish it” is that accurate a claim, as often as you think, RS. It appears to many liberal commentators (who drop by and comment here), that there are some pretty “itchy trigger fingers” on the other side of the ideological divide. This apparent lack of tolerance for dissent can also affect people who hold conservative opinions more congenial to those on the ideological right who apparently stray from some accepted norm, as in the recent kerfuffle that had Bruce laying down the law on proper commentator etiquette. I think that is one part of the issue.

    So, I don’t think this is just an issue of liberals being meanies and trolls and making life hard for virtuous conservative commentators, who have to defend themselves. Sometimes some conservative commentators pick fights and bully as well. I don’t think anything is lost in acknowledging this, and I think much can be gained from accepting that in some instances, Brenden has a point.

    Comment by Cas — March 21, 2012 @ 2:03 am - March 21, 2012

  35. ND30 this is quite typical of your insane form of argument. You pull a quote of the wide world of the internet, from a posting that I have not seen until you reference it and somehow in your tospy turvey (probalby highly medicated brain) I am responsible for the comment. This is sheer lunacy.

    Comment by Brendan — March 20, 2012 @ 5:24 pm – March 20, 2012

    Sorry. You have me confused with your fellow liberal rusty.

    Now when you want to call his arguing insane and idiotic and state that he is “medicated”, then you might have some credibility in making such accusations.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 2:58 am - March 21, 2012

  36. Come on. You can’t seriously think anyone is dumb enough to fall for this obfuscation.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 20, 2012 @ 9:43 pm – March 20, 2012

    Of course he does, Rattlesnake.

    Just as rusty thinks his blathering about “rita beads” somehow changes the subject.

    What you are seeing here is the degree to which liberal gays like rusty and Brendan will rationalize anything, repeat ANYTHING, that their fellow gays and lesbians do, regardless of how repulsive it is.

    That is because your worth in the gay and lesbian community is measured, not by willingness to stand up for what is right and good regardless of community pressure, but by the degree to which you are willing to bow to community pressure and ignore what is right and good.

    It creates laughable situations. Both Brendan and rusty whine that they don’t have anything to do with said comments, that they respect Dan, blah blah blah……but neither can bring themselves to state that the author is a hatemongering bigot and that those like Evan Hurst and Wayne Besen who support said statements and call them truthful are lying.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:05 am - March 21, 2012

  37. Cas,

    Here is the answer to your blathering.

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    That is what liberal gays like you say, and liberal gays like you state of that post and that author, “everything he said is true, and then some”.

    Since you support and endorse these sort of statements, you have no credibility whatsoever when it comes to any whining about comments or commenters.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:11 am - March 21, 2012

  38. NDT, you might wanna check in with BDB. I admire Dan and compliment him quite regularly about GP.

    Comment by rusty — March 20, 2012 @ 5:25 pm – March 20, 2012

    And yet, this is the sort of thing you “love to read” about him.

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    And that is the sort of thing that you and the blogs you love to read insist, “everything he said is true, and then some”.

    So I’d say you’re either lying, or you’re some kind of weirdo who gets off on backstabbing.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:15 am - March 21, 2012

  39. Did I list the website that you linked. Don’t Think So.

    Poor poor Ms Beads! You so pretty when you get into these little snit fits.

    The folk you listed and their sites are GAY blogs and I read them on a regular basis. Just like I read Dan and Bruce’s GP. Been hoping for Nick lately.

    It has been about 4 years since I discovered GP, but like I said before, it is a pleasureto peruse the site and find the posts and comments not inly informative but also entertaing at times. There are many gifted wordsmiths and satirists her. IlC

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:52 am - March 21, 2012

  40. Sorry, . . .

    My interactions with ILC, TL, Heliotrope and the many others here have helped to reshape my understanding and outlook. Probably always going to be left of that center line, but see great folk in that grey area pop in all the time. (just remembered a couple of folk who pop into mind who are casual commenters not only here but at those OTHER gay sites. Heck even Seanne Anna is fun now and then.

    NDT, I am pushing 50 this year and when you come off with your head snap, finger pointing attitude, it just reminds me of those early queers in my life, the Drag girls.
    Smart sassy but way too full of themselves. There were always those trailers in the entourages, those boys never quite pretty enough to don a gown in public or for a performance, but loved to cut it up around the cocktail and beading parties.

    You Dan, will continue to pop off, that ain’t gonna change. When you let your alter Miss Rita Beads entirely take control, you be one wicked mess.

    As for me going away, I think not.

    And back to someone you really decided to drive off. I miss Lori H. And I am sure there are a couple more who no longer comment here because of you. This a sad loss for GP.

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 5:12 am - March 21, 2012

  41. Apologies for typos and auto correct in 39.

    And of course, smooches NDT. http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l569/rusty98119/smooch.jpg

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 5:14 am - March 21, 2012

  42. Did I list the website that you linked. Don’t Think So.

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:52 am – March 21, 2012

    Of course you did. You gushed about how you loved reading Truth Wins Out, which not only linked said website, but stated
    “everything it (he) said is true, and then some”.

    And meanwhile, really? I didn’t see anyone here list the person that you linked as their inspiration or someone they loved to read, but that didn’t stop you from trying to ascribe it to us.

    Next up:

    NDT, I am pushing 50 this year and when you come off with your head snap, finger pointing attitude, it just reminds me of those early queers in my life, the Drag girls.

    Well, of course it does. You and yours have pretty much spent your entire life snarking and characterizing anyone who would dare criticize the behaviors, values, and morals of other gays and lesbians as “rita beads”, “prudes”, “homophobes”, “closet cases”, and so forth.

    And then you sit back and wonder how you ended up with so many millions of people dead or disabled from HIV – AND a whole new generation of “liberated” gays utterly dependent on thousands of dollars of medication annually not to end up the same way.

    Why? I can tell you why. Because in 1982, when you were pushing twenty, in 1992 when you were pushing thirty, and in 2002 when you were pushing forty, you were giggling and snarking at those people who were telling you to stop barebacking, stop playing mattress roulette, and start being responsible, you were calling them “rita beads” and spitting on them.

    Which is why, if it weren’t for the pharmaceutical companies you and your fellow liberals constantly demonize, your brilliant decision-making and “rita beads”-free judgment would have turned the Castro, Capitol Hill, Christopher Street, West Hollywood, and others into Chernobyl-esque dead zones. It certainly hasn’t been because you’ve gotten any more responsible, given what you’ve managed to teach and spread to the next generation.

    So snark away and call me “Miss Beads” or whatever all you want. I suppose that’s the only way you can rationalize away how you and your fellow liberal gays killed and disabled millions of people rather than exercise any responsibility whatsoever for your behavior.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 12:07 pm - March 21, 2012

  43. You go NDT

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 12:10 pm - March 21, 2012

  44. Meanwhile:

    As for me going away, I think not.

    And back to someone you really decided to drive off. I miss Lori H. And I am sure there are a couple more who no longer comment here because of you. This a sad loss for GP.

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 5:12 am – March 21, 2012

    Oh, I see. Try to appeal to the fact that I have a sense of decency and fairness in order to get me to change my behavior — or to be ashamed and leave.

    Here’s a hint, rusty: that only works when I know the people who are saying it have shown the capacity for decency and fairness themselves.

    But unfortunately, I already know what you and yours support as “true” and fair criticism:

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    Now rusty, here’s a thought: why not give yourself some credibility by stating that Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, and others like Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others who endorse and state that “every word is true and then some” about Dan are hatemongering bigots and liars who deliberately are trying to slander Dan, just like you say about Christians, conservatives, or anyone else you find objectionable?

    That would show that you were actually following some kind of objective moral principle that you could equally apply to people regardless of sexual orientation, political affiliation, or religious beliefs.

    But it would also make you persona non grata to those individuals — which is why, I suspect, that you would rather rant about “rita beads” and “drag queens” to make the person holding you actually accountable go away.

    Meanwhile, your concern for Lori is touching. It would have been even more touching and credible had you actually demonstrated it when you disagreed with her, rather than when you could exploit it.

    But then again, that’s pretty much typical for gays and lesbians like you: you only care about the welfare of gay and lesbian teenagers when you can use their dead bodies to attack Christians, and not when you’re leaving them your HIV infections in their live ones.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 12:20 pm - March 21, 2012

  45. So first let’s look at you miss Rita Beads. NDT you encourage your alter Miss Beads

    It’s been almost 30 years and despite challenges from thousands of hilarious contenders, Rita Beads remains my all time favorite drag name. Rita was a hairy chested, butch mustached, roller-skating, pregnant nun sort of drag queen, back in late 70’s Orlando.

    The reason Rita Beads is such a funny name is probably sadly lost to most of you, but the threat to “read your beads” was a common expression back in the day, one homo to another. Reading someone’s beads meant to tell them off, to give them what-for, to put them in the their place, in the sort of high-drama that only can come from a place of great creativity and style. And cuntiness.

    “Don’t make me read your beads, bitch!”

    The verb “read”, by itself, in this context, continues to be used today, although I rarely hear it these days. “Is he over there reading my outfit?” And I’ve always like the adjective “readful”, as in, “Ooh, I just gave him a readful rake and walked away! (Snap)” Reading often includes snapping but white guys can rarely pull off the snap. It’s a black thing, really. Like the head swivel, which can also be a component of a talented read. Can anybody tell I took a walk on the pier last weekend? JMG

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 12:35 pm - March 21, 2012

  46. North Dallas Thirty wrote,

    Because, Brendan, Dan has seen what you and your fellow gays and lesbians like Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Rob Tisinai, Jeremy Hooper, Evan Hurst, and Wayne Besen not only consider acceptable, but say, quote, “everything he said is true, and then some.”, when talking about Dan.

    I thought Dan and Pam got along pretty well.

    Jeremy Hooper I thought avoided internecine conflict with other gay bloggers, and had little if anything to say about gaypatriot.net.

    Comment by Donny D. — March 21, 2012 @ 12:49 pm - March 21, 2012

  47. Next NDT,

    In the 80’s I got involved with providing car for indigent and homeless folk afflicted with the early ARC and folk in the final stages of AIDS through a private donor and an alliance with the nuns of the Sisters of Providence. In late 89 I supported a friend in his his last weeks of life after succumbing to infections as a result of his HIV infection.

    In the early 90’s I became a HIV educator through of the early Red Cross training programs then eventually completed another course to provide care to folk with HIV for most could not enter a nursing/care programs because of the existing stigma those with HIV faced.

    I also took part in a training program to become a Personal Active Listener with an AIDS program to hel short newly informed folk facing HIV.
    The rest of the 90’s I spent time volunteering in a unique hospice set up by the Sisters of Providence for folk with HIV/AIDS.

    During 00 – 05 period I worked as a HIV educator and in prevention.

    I also helped out with event promotion and fund raising.

    I continue to support a couple of folk as a personal active listener and have helped several folk get started in early detection and HIV testing.

    And finally, did you miss the link that showed Dan with his nephew.

    But rant on NDT, rant on

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 12:52 pm - March 21, 2012

  48. Hel short … Help support

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 12:55 pm - March 21, 2012

  49. And here is me in my ‘cub’ stage…

    http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l569/rusty98119/cf2f7aea.jpg

    Again smooched NDT

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 1:04 pm - March 21, 2012

  50. Oh, you’re an HIV educator, rusty?

    Gee, you must be so proud of the results you’re getting.

    An alarming rise in HIV infection rates over the past decade among gay men has been connected to medicated AIDS patients, according to Israeli researchers……

    The number of new HIV cases diagnosed each year in the last 10 years among homosexuals increased almost 500 percent compared to the previous decade. The trend is also reported in other developed nations, including the United States, sparking a worldwide hunt by AIDS researchers for the cause.

    But then again, I can see why; your education wouldn’t have anything to do with teaching people to say no to irresponsible behavior, and would likely involve standing up there and ranting about how anyone who would DARE criticize the gay and lesbian community was wrong and mocking them as a “rita beads”.

    And in the advanced class, you would teach them how HIV/STD rates had nothing to do with promiscuous and irresponsible behavior choices on their part, and were all the fault of Ronald Reagan, Anita Bryant, Christians in general, all conservatives, Republicans, and Viagra ads.

    That’s what makes your generation so patently stupid, rusty. You buried millions of people, watched millions more people sicken, and bred an entire generation that is repeating and building on your mistakes, and you still are convinced that not a single damn bit of it was in any way connected to your behavior and your choices.

    Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, Miss Thang. But you and your fellow gay-sex liberals sure are drowning in it.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 1:16 pm - March 21, 2012

  51. As some one acknowledged the other day about the infamous NDT library of links

    Here is something you should add

    http://bornon911.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/bully-for-you/

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 1:18 pm - March 21, 2012

  52. Comment by Richard Bell,

    Frankly, some of the most vile treatment of a human being I have ever whitnessed has been dealt by progressive homosexuals to their conservative counterparts.

    So I guess you’ve never seen or experienced violent crime, or convincing threats of serious violence, including gay bashing, or been afraid of being gay bashed. Unless you’re saying the treatment of gay conservatives by “the gay left” is that bad.

    Comment by Heliotrope,

    Truly, I can not begin to express my disgust for such reprehensible smearing and bold satisfaction in posting it for one’s pride and delight in prejudice. How is this type of hatred any different from dragging the victim behind a pick-up truck until his skin comes off and all for being the “wrong” sort of gay?

    Maybe we can start with the smearing and hatred not resulting in gay conservatives being battered and scraped way past the point of being dead.

    Some perspective is called for here.

    However, while sticks and stones can break one’s bones, being called names can have serious negative mental health consequences. Rather than grotesquely violent racist murders, I think the best analogy to how some gay conservative have been treated by all too many gay non-conservatives is the harassment that happens to kids believed or suspected of being gay in primary and secondary school. Studies show that kind of abuse leads to definite negative consequences of all kinds for the recipients of the abuse. I don’t doubt something like that also is the case for a significant number of gay conservatives.

    Comment by Donny D. — March 21, 2012 @ 1:29 pm - March 21, 2012

  53. I should have covered this in my earlier post about this but anyway:

    North Dallas Thirty wrote,

    Now rusty, here’s a thought: why not give yourself some credibility by stating that Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, and others like Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others who endorse and state that “every word is true and then some” about Dan are hatemongering bigots and liars who deliberately are trying to slander Dan, just like you say about Christians, conservatives, or anyone else you find objectionable?

    As far as Jim, Timothy and Rob, while I’ve seen criticism of GOProud on Box Turtle Bulletin, and at least once, of gaypatriot.net, I’ve never seen them post anything like the Sadly, No! article you quoted from. I’m pretty sure that none of the bloggers on BTB would say that Sadly, No! speaks for them in regard to gay conservatives.

    Comment by Donny D. — March 21, 2012 @ 2:05 pm - March 21, 2012

  54. bred an entire generation

    I love how every young gay man has been bred by the previous generation of gay men. From what age exactly does the breeding start.

    1) Who did the breeding, now. Hello? Irony alert.
    2) Who did the raising?
    3) But, it’s Rusty’s generation that takes on the responsibility of the sexually careless behaviors of twentysomethings who didn’t live through the horrors of the 80’s and now became unfortunately fearless, because medicine has made HIV “manageable” and not a death sentence.

    Who do I get to blame if I’m part of that narrow cross-section who never gets laid? Does Rita Beads shoulder that burden? Oh, Ms. Beads, will you please take me in!

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 2:06 pm - March 21, 2012

  55. I also did AIDS hospice volunteering in the 90’s.

    Wonder if Ms. Rita Beads did. Or put on a fundraiser at the very least. God knows, she could drum up the money.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 2:08 pm - March 21, 2012

  56. Try to focus, Donny D.

    Here is the statement in question:

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    Furthermore, this statement is characterized by gay and lesbian liberal bloggers like Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others as, quote, “everything (he said) is true, and then some”.

    Now, here’s the conundrum. You have been presented with an example of behavior that you would never accept or condone coming from a conservative — but which, since it comes from gay and lesbian people, you must support.

    Thus, it’s not surprising that you veer off into an argument that this is OK because people didn’t get killed (that you know about).

    So we just want you to establish the threshold value. Clearly you don’t consider this post a problem. Clearly you don’t consider its supporters like Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others claiming that it’s true to be a problem.

    Therefore, we just want you to state that this behavior is perfectly acceptable and that this is no grounds whatsoever for criticism.

    And then, FYI, I intend to turn around and hammer you as a hypocrite for all your whining about “bullying”.

    The bigger problem here is that this all too clearly illustrates that bigot gays like Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others who rant about “bullying” and “hate speech” on their websites are hypocrites to the exponential power.

    Which is why, I suppose, you are falling into rather thick clouds of obfuscation.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 2:09 pm - March 21, 2012

  57. I wish Lori was still here. I miss her.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 2:09 pm - March 21, 2012

  58. As far as Jim, Timothy and Rob, while I’ve seen criticism of GOProud on Box Turtle Bulletin, and at least once, of gaypatriot.net, I’ve never seen them post anything like the Sadly, No! article you quoted from. I’m pretty sure that none of the bloggers on BTB would say that Sadly, No! speaks for them in regard to gay conservatives.

    Comment by Donny D. — March 21, 2012 @ 2:05 pm – March 21, 2012

    Well, unfortunately, a) Sadly, No! CLAIMS to speak for them, and b) BTB has established the precedent that if you don’t condemn hate speech directly, you support it.

    Meanwhile, I’m laughing, given that Jim Burroway is a Troofer of the first order who was shrieking that Sarah Palin caused the Tucson shooting at first, then tried to walk it back by claiming she “got lucky this time”.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 2:12 pm - March 21, 2012

  59. More proof that ND30 is full of hot air.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 2:12 pm - March 21, 2012

  60. Speaking of Sadly, No!, can anyone explain how they get comment threads that are 400-deep? I get one comment for every 10 or 15 posts on my blog. It’s hard our here for a blogger pimp! It would be nice every now and then if someone on GP would chime in on my blog instead of just My Sharia Moor Eric. Just saying’!

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 2:16 pm - March 21, 2012

  61. But, it’s Rusty’s generation that takes on the responsibility of the sexually careless behaviors of twentysomethings who didn’t live through the horrors of the 80′s and now became unfortunately fearless, because medicine has made HIV “manageable” and not a death sentence.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 2:06 pm – March 21, 2012

    Did you read the link, Cinesnatch?

    An alarming rise in HIV infection rates over the past decade among gay men has been connected to medicated AIDS patients, according to Israeli researchers

    Yes, absolutely, the young men who are having irresponsible and promiscuous bareback sex are responsible for their behavior.

    As are the men of rusty’s generation who, despite having far more experience in the consequences of these matters, continue to have, promote, and push irresponsibility and promiscuity — and pass on their infections to the next generation.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 2:30 pm - March 21, 2012

  62. I don’t know if North Dallas Thirty was bullied as a child.  He grew up to be a big brute, and perhaps he pumped all that iron so that nobody would ever bully him again.  But if you were bullied as a child, you have two choices.  You can become a bully yourself, or you can resolve never to start a fight — only to finish it.

    I did the latter; he obviously did the former.  He kept calling me a bully during our big fight.  That’s not surprising, given the psychology of bullies.  But there’s one crucial difference between a bully and the bullied party, and it is easy to make the distinction.  The bully always — always — starts the fight.

    I did not start the fight on Gay Patriot.  I did my damnedest to finish it.  In the end, I’m not sure who really finished it.  I only hope that it is finished now.

    One clue as to who customarily bullies and who does not:  I have never, ever been banned from any blog.  North Dallas Thirty gets tossed off of blogs all the time.  Sherlock Holmes, meet clue.

    Born on 911.

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:02 pm - March 21, 2012

  63. The simple fact is this, rusty: your fellow gay and lesbian liberals like Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others make statements like this:

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    and then insist that “everything (he said) is true, and then some”.

    And that doesn’t qualify as “bullying”, or end up in the least worthy of your ire; indeed, you gush about how you love to read these people posting such things. There’s certainly no pontificating about “rita beads”, “snaps”, “hands on hips” etc. on them as well.

    And I would point out one corollary to Lori’s statement: the blogs from which I have been banned are invariably the ones that publish statements like that one I just posted AND insist that they are “true”.

    Odd, isn’t it? Those websites ban anyone who criticizes their posting such things about Dan.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:25 pm - March 21, 2012

  64. How [is]

    – Either lacks the self-respect to have a job/career (preferring government dependency) or, if indeed he has a job/career, happily supports a government that will take >50% of his earnings

    necessarily related with regards to being gay any way?

    Did I say it was -necessarily- related to being gay? No, I never did. But, for a person to live in either of those ways, self-loathing is involved on some level. Certainly not self-respect.

    The point of my comment #1 (now perhaps lost, so I will re-state it) is that gay lefties project a lot. Dan brought up the frequently-heard charge that gay conservatives are self-loathing. My comment cited several examples of views/lifestyles that are fairly common on the gay left, which would show their self-loathing.

    The rest of your comment misses the point, as usual. For example… my original words about a person who “lacks the self-respect to jave a job/career (preferring government dependency)”, mean a person who has made a life choice to avoid the issue of “career” and, instead, to live off the government benefits at every opportunity. That is different enough from your counter-example of someone taking unemployment benefits temporarily (for which his previous taxes may have more-than-paid), to render your counter-example irrelevant. And so on, with the remainder of your comment. For example, as I already clarified at comment #27, I never claimed that the self-loathing views/behaviors I listed were 100% unique to the Left (or 100% absent from the Right).

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 3:37 pm - March 21, 2012

  65. Given I don’t read sadly no, and I have had no contact with Evan Hurst, it would be kinda weird to denounce them. What is truly disheartening that you continue to bring this ugliness on repeated attempts.

    Again, I read gay blogs. Towleroad, metro weekly, BTB, IGF, born on 911, JMG, Gay Patriot, etc etc etc. some of the articles are informative, others entertaining and enlightening and some are not worth my time.

    I also read a wide collection of news sources and rotate my primary news services I hoes to get a balanced view.

    And again NDT, I am the one to comment positively about Dan’s proud moment as he herald his nephew.

    So now you are not only a head snapping, finger pointing miss beads,buts grand contortionist with other folk’s viewpoint and comments. But that be you.

    Carry on NDT. And hope you reflect on Lori’s post Bully on You. And take a long hard look in the mirror when you hit the gym today. Hope you see something good inside of you. As one of my favorite commentators likes to close. . .have a blessed day!

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:43 pm - March 21, 2012

  66. Now NDT, let’s ponder these thoughts

    Do wonder why these guys hate so much.  And wonder as well if some of them have joined campaigns against H8, i.e., those opposing state recognition of same-sex marriage.

    You look at these people, smile in amusement at their smallness, shake your head and feel sorry for them — for lacking the capacity to realize that someone can have different opinions from their own for sound reasons — and without harboring sinister motives.

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:55 pm - March 21, 2012

  67. rusty – I think part of the point here is, when you read things like:

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people yadda yadda…

    on those blogs, do you speak up at all on Dan’s behalf? Or at least think to yourself “Ugh, that is sad… I can see where NDT has a point about this”? I am not super interested in the answer (i.e., I am not out to beat you over the head); I am more just suggesting the question. As a counter-example, I myself don’t agree 100% with everything NDT says, and from time to time, I make that clear. At #19, you say words distancing you from the nastiness those bloggers have spewed at Dan; but you use a sarcastic humor that, I think, undercuts your words.

    what we’re trying to harmonize is how you can gush about how much you “love” the blogs that are writing things like the above while being so upset over being “attacked” by commenters here

    Kinda, yeah. NDT has a point there. Now, I do find that rusty is one of those who whines less (or least) about being “attacked” by commentors here. I’ve praised his calm demeanor before, contrasting him to certain others who seemingly cannot stop whining about (or making threads about) how persecuted their poor selves are. But, leaving rusty to the side… looking at some others… the point is valid. If a person “loves” a blog that is low enough to spew vile crap about Dan, do they have any business complaining about anything that supposedly goes on here at GayPatriot? Some people come here with no civility in their hearts at all – just hostility, mixed perhaps with self-pity to varying degrees – and then try to invoke local rules about civility, with a straight face. Sherlock meet clue, indeed.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 4:03 pm - March 21, 2012

  68. Does this excuse similar sorts of behaviour on this blog from those on the other side of the ideological fence?

    No. But I’ll be honest, I don’t recall any unjustified invective from the right here. Perhaps my bias is preventing me from seeing it. But I’ve gotten to the point where I really don’t care about civility, given how incivil the left often is. I am not going to play by the rules that left refuses to play by themselves, and I am not going to call anyone on the right out for fairly refusing to play by those rules.

    As I said, I can think of only one centre-left commenter here to whom none of those adjectives can be applied (although I have only been reading this blog for a short time). So, from my perspective, not only does Brendan not have a point, but he is factually wrong when he says this:

    Virtually anyone with even mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive, politics, who ventures to comment here is viscously attacked by many of your followers.

    If this is, in fact, true, perhaps someone who has been here longer can provide some evidence to demonstrate its veracity.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 21, 2012 @ 4:06 pm - March 21, 2012

  69. Given I don’t read sadly no, and I have had no contact with Evan Hurst, it would be kinda weird to denounce them.

    LOL. Nice try, but not knowing or having no contact with someone has never stopped you from denouncing people before.

    Here’s a thought: why not try treating Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others the same way you treated the person in that example?

    What is truly disheartening that you continue to bring this ugliness on repeated attempts.

    Why not? You should be talking to the people who wrote it and pushed it as being true — you know, Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others.

    And again NDT, I am the one to comment positively about Dan’s proud moment as he herald his nephew.

    And then turn around and gush about how much you love reading the blogs that Photoshop said picture and moment into a watermelon.

    Oh believe me, I’m impressed.

    So now you are not only a head snapping, finger pointing miss beads,buts grand contortionist with other folk’s viewpoint and comments. But that be you.

    Ah yes, it’s all back to me. Not a word about Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others who actually wrote the hit piece on Dan AND stated that every word was true and then some. It’s all about the person who had the temerity to point out the poison-pen writing and how THEY are wrong and should just shut the hell up.

    Carry on NDT. And hope you reflect on Lori’s post Bully on You. And take a long hard look in the mirror when you hit the gym today. Hope you see something good inside of you. As one of my favorite commentators likes to close. . .have a blessed day!

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:43 pm – March 21, 2012

    Ah yes, it’s all back to me. Not a word about Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others who actually wrote the hit piece on Dan AND stated that every word was true and then some. It’s all about the person who had the temerity to point out the poison-pen writing and how THEY are wrong and should just shut the hell up.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:10 pm - March 21, 2012

  70. My #67 crossed in the mail with rusty’s #65. The latter kind of answers my points, as far as rusty would be concerned. But I think my points stand, in a more general way (or as applied to some others).

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 4:13 pm - March 21, 2012

  71. I’ve gotten to the point where I really don’t care about civility, given how incivil the left often is. I am not going to play by the rules that left refuses to play by themselves, and I am not going to call anyone on the right out for fairly refusing to play by those rules.

    Ditto. When someone who plainly has no civility in their heart to begin with, comes and whines to me about lack of civility (real or imagined), I am going to give them an answer which makes plain that they can go f*ck themselves. Oops, sorry, “that I couldn’t care less.”

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 4:16 pm - March 21, 2012

  72. 66.Now NDT, let’s ponder these thoughts

    Do wonder why these guys hate so much. And wonder as well if some of them have joined campaigns against H8, i.e., those opposing state recognition of same-sex marriage.

    You look at these people, smile in amusement at their smallness, shake your head and feel sorry for them — for lacking the capacity to realize that someone can have different opinions from their own for sound reasons — and without harboring sinister motives.

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 3:55 pm – March 21, 2012

    Oh, yes, let’s indeed.

    And then let’s compare them to what you, Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others whose blogs you read and gush about “loving” actually write and claim “every word is true, and then some”:

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    And that, dear rusty, is why no one around here is planning on taking “civility” lessons or feedback from you, Cinesnatch, Brendan, Donny D, or all the others of you that seem hell-bent on lecturing us while ignoring the Augean piles such as that post.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:17 pm - March 21, 2012

  73. Bullying from the left is not okay, even when they believe they are standing up for the truth. And, until they as a group denounce bullying, anyone who agrees with their version of “the truth” must take responsibility for their tactics. In the meanwhile, one must accept the tactics of those who disapprove of the left’s means until the left stops claiming the holier ground while not walking it.

    Yes, my behavior on this site has been oftentimes ridiculous. I wholeheartedly admit it. Part of it I attribute to throwing up my hands in the air after being unsuccessful at communicating my viewpoint and being misinterpreted for whatever reasons. By not caring anymore and submitting to jerkish, sometimes narcissistic behaviors I undermine the legitimate viewpoints I had difficulty communicating in the first place.

    The internet is a difficult place to always properly communicate your argument. I’m sure I would act differently face-to-face, as I imagine the same would go with others on here (but not all). I will do my best in the future to stay on point and keep my bearings during times of not being able to drive home legitimate arguments.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:25 pm - March 21, 2012

  74. Bullying from the left is not okay

    Then don’t do it. Drop the stream of insults. Don’t picket the (local, virtual) memorials of good men. Etc.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 4:27 pm - March 21, 2012

  75. RS #86: Lori Heine comes to mind. She’s right of center.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:28 pm - March 21, 2012

  76. RS #86: Sonic_Frog comes to mind. He is politically center.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:30 pm - March 21, 2012

  77. That is because your worth in the gay and lesbian community is measured, not by willingness to stand up for what is right and good regardless of community pressure, but by the degree to which you are willing to bow to community pressure and ignore what is right and good.

    Well, it’s a good thing that I don’t give a s*** what the “gay community” thinks of my worth.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 21, 2012 @ 4:30 pm - March 21, 2012

  78. ILC >> I never weighed in on the Shirley Sherrod matter when it happened. I took the wrong opportunity to engage you on the matter on the day Andrew Breitbart died. I should have regulated our interaction to private email. It was not a shining moment for me. I’m sorry my actions offended you.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:33 pm - March 21, 2012

  79. RS #68: Sorry I don’t have links. Those are just names that came to mind when you posed the question.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:35 pm - March 21, 2012

  80. ILC. Sorry but who said this and when.

    what we’re trying to harmonize is how you can gush about how much you “love” the blogs that are writing things like the above while being so upset over being “attacked” by commenters here

    And I have never said that NDT doesn’t ever have a clear concise points. It’s probably the delivery, much like the sarcasm you suggest that sometimes comes through.

    ME with hands on Hips NEVER.

    But as to redirecting commentors or down right disagreeing with folk who posts items on other blogs, well I can say that have been some. And there have been times when I have chosen not to comment.

    But again, at 50, I can say with certainty that there have been other folk – step sisters to miss Rita beads, over the past thirty years, and then there are folk who enjoy good banter without bringing in the cyber shiv.

    Like I’ve said before, I am not going anywhere. I have more to learn, discover and share. . Even though sometimes it isn’t always clear, but I am counting on you to point that out

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:36 pm - March 21, 2012

  81. Comes through my commentary

    That have. . .that there have

    🙂

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:41 pm - March 21, 2012

  82. NDT – Ah yes, it’s all back to me.

    And when isn’t it miss beads

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 4:45 pm - March 21, 2012

  83. FTR, rusty, yes where I disagree with NDT here, would be that even when you’re saying something opposite to what I think, I still usually sense civility in your heart. So I’m more inclined to find mine. My attitude is: whatever people dump in my lap, good or bad, they can have right back. I don’t claim Jesus would do that or anything… it’s just the best that *I* can do.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 4:51 pm - March 21, 2012

  84. However, despite everything, am I insane for suggesting that there is something not quite right when a more conservative GP commenter gets away with the kind of outlandish comments Brendan referenced in Post #7 (“accusations of pedophilia, supporters of child sexual slavery, suffering from “narcissistic lust for power” or other equally over the top accusations.”)?

    Also, does any one have the link to the thread he referenced as cannibalistic and wacky?

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:51 pm - March 21, 2012

  85. RS #86: Lori Heine comes to mind. She’s right of center.

    And that does not support Brendan’s assertion that “virtually anyone with even mildly moderate, never mind left or progressive, politics, who ventures to comment here is viscously attacked by many of your followers,” because Lori is neither mildly moderate or left or progressive. Yes, she was, in my opinion, treated unfairly in that thread with 300+ comments, but I also defended her in that thread. The point is that it is more people’s behavior than their politics that makes them the targets of invective from the right here.

    Furthermore, while I disagreed with NDT in that thread, he is spot on in this one.

    As for sonicfrog, I do not recall any instance in which he has been “viscously” (I am assuming that is supposed to be viciously) attacked. Of course, again, I have not been reading this blog for a very long time.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 21, 2012 @ 4:51 pm - March 21, 2012

  86. I took the wrong opportunity to engage you

    Thank you. I can’t promise I’ll let it go completely now, but I’ll try to move in that general direction.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 4:58 pm - March 21, 2012

  87. Sorry, I wish I had the links. As far as Lori, I guess we disagree as to where she falls on the political spectrum. I thought center of right was mild. Maybe she’s changed since I’ve last interacted with her. She has been attacked in more than one thread, though, whatever the case. I’m not sure if I participated in the 300+ thread you referenced. I’m guessing not.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 5:05 pm - March 21, 2012

  88. I really don’t know where Lori is on the political spectrum. But I wouldn’t consider her a moderate, based on what she has said (about the government).

    Comment by Rattlesnake — March 21, 2012 @ 5:11 pm - March 21, 2012

  89. I can’t promise I’ll let it go completely now, but I’ll try to move in that general direction.

    I appreciate it, ILC.

    I know, for you, that thread continued on, in part, because of your disbelief, frustration, and anger at my insensitivity.

    But, setting everything aside, what we’ve learned is that we both have watched the exact same thing (in this case, the Sherrod video with the NAACP in the audience) and we both have interpreted, to the best of our faculties, two entirely different meanings. Part of why that thread went on for an unusually long time was due in part to my inability to grasp that you were hearing something that I wasn’t, nor could ever. It was hard for me to accept, as things I know to be true are, and it put me in a state of shock. And, at the time, I would have best served myself and everyone else to just let it go, but, unbeknownst to me, I was trying to process through my surprise.

    If you ever come across any articles/commentary in the future that may shed light on the matter for me, I welcome it.

    But, for now, I have to accept our unresolvable disagreement and just move on.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 5:17 pm - March 21, 2012

  90. However, despite everything, am I insane for suggesting that there is something not quite right when a more conservative GP commenter gets away with the kind of outlandish comments Brendan referenced in Post #7 (“accusations of pedophilia, supporters of child sexual slavery, suffering from “narcissistic lust for power” or other equally over the top accusations.”)?

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 4:51 pm – March 21, 2012

    That depends. Does Brendan also think this is “outlandish”?

    Dan Blatt is a loathsome piece of sh*t who will sell out other gay people in order to curry the favor of straight Republicans who pat him on the head every now but then call him a c*ck-sucking heels-in-the-air fudge-packed girlie-boy behind his back (even though only the girlie-boy part is actually true). Dan says all this stuff because the probability that any gay man would ever give enough of a sh*t about Dan to visit him in a hospital, much less to have a relationship with him, is remote — as remote as the possibility that Dan will ever have sex with anyone other than a blind leper in a darkened truck stop in rural Alabama, and even then the leper will have to down a fifth of Jack Daniel’s before he can bring himself to do it. F*ck you, Dan, you wretched, illiterate prick.

    Does Brendan also berate gays and lesbians like Evan Hurst, Wayne Besen, Joe Jervis, Pam Spaulding, Jeremy Hooper, Jim Burroway, Timothy Kincaid, Rob Tisinai, and others who claim of such statements that “every word (he said) is true, and then some”?

    If the answer is no on both counts, then clearly what is taking place is a double standard. That’s not necessarily a sign of insanity, but it certainly is one of hypocrisy — and thus nicely gut-shots any statements made about commenters here, unless one is willing to admit and state that liberal gays and lesbians like Evan Hurst, et. al are inferior and cannot be expected to meet the same standards as commenters here.

    What you might also consider is how this looks to people who hear Wayne Besen shrieking and whining about “hate speech” and “bullying”, but then looking at what he posts and endorses and defends. Since Besen and his ilk justify their every action based on their sexual orientation, it makes it clear that gays and lesbians are lying hypocrites who have no intention of following the “civility” and “tolerance” requirements they demand of others.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 21, 2012 @ 5:46 pm - March 21, 2012

  91. I have to accept our unresolvable disagreement and just move on.

    You said that early-ish in the thread. It would have been better to have stuck with it.

    am I insane for suggesting that there is something not quite right when a more conservative GP commenter gets away with the kind of outlandish comments Brendan referenced in Post #7 (“accusations of pedophilia, supporters of child sexual slavery, suffering from “narcissistic lust for power”

    I think there have been times (though I am going from memory alone – and hence, I may be wrong) when NDT’s words have appeared to call someone a child molester, when he would (or should) have meant someone whose views have the effect of condoning child molesting. It makes me uncomfortable when NDT’s words elide the distinction, because I think it’s a distinction worth preserving. But on the other hand, once more NDT has a point: if you can’t bring yourself to condemn Kevin Jennings, then effectively you condone child molesting (because yes, the kid’s age was 15 until Jennings started to find that underage number inconvenient and changed it, in his future tellings of the story). NDT demands moral accountability and clarity from people. I endorse that intention, although that doesn’t mean I always endorse how he carries it out.

    As to “narcissistic lust for power”, that was mine… and what I said was this:

    *I struggle with the question* of whether leftism necessarily implies… a dark, narcissistic lust for power. Since leftism-in-action always involves using government to force individuals to submit to the collective, and since many leftists show lots of hostility and unhappiness together with self-pity, the answer would seem to be yes. *But* there are still a few left-leaning people left in the world who display better traits: secure in themselves, able to tolerate differences, etc.

    Emphasis (and ellipses) intended for clarity. I didn’t assert it as an absolute; I stated honestly that it is a question I think about, and I gave 2 sides for it.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 5:52 pm - March 21, 2012

  92. ILC. Just a quick thing. Where did the harmonize quote come from and when

    Comment by rusty — March 21, 2012 @ 6:08 pm - March 21, 2012

  93. (continued) Also, I think that when NDT elides the distinction (between being a child molestor vs. having views that condone some molester in practice), he may have in mind a meta-point: that that is how the Left behaves. For instance, by their lights, if you point out that Sandra Fluke has no good point, then you are an evil person who wants to deny women contraception and imprison users of it and smash unions and God knows what else.

    I think that meta-point, while it has truth to it, is a bad one to make because it gets lost in translation. In my experience, two wrongs do not make a right, and by the time you’re done turning all of the Left’s Alinsky tactics back on them, people get the idea that you like (or that you are) those tactics.

    ILC. Just a quick thing. Where did the harmonize quote come from and when

    Oh sorry, rusty. I saw your question but didn’t take it literally. See NDT #22. He put your name into it, I tried to pull your name out of it (while preserving the larger point, applied to some others).

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 6:13 pm - March 21, 2012

  94. “If you can’t bring yourself to condemn Kevin Jennings, then effectively you condone child molesting.” I disagree with you and respect that we differ on this matter. And, if that makes you believe that if someone were to disagree with you, they are in fact condoning child molestation, then we have to agree to disagree. I don’t see the connection, not in regards to the Kevin Jennings situation. But, again, this is a matter where the facts are before us and we both see two different things and we’ll never be able to see otherwise.

    My understanding is that he counseled the boy to use condoms when he confessed a potential hookup with this twentysomething stranger and didn’t report it to the authorities. My stand has always been, had I been in his shoes (and, mind you, this was in the 1980’s when it occurred), I can’t say that I wouldn’t have done the same thing. I also can’t say that I would have followed in this footsteps. For all I know, I would have reported the boy to the school administrator. I just don’t know. And, if I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have “bragged” about it on a book tour, as I guess Jennings had. I don’t know. I didn’t attend any of his lectures, so I don’t know what he said when he would reference the incident, but I have heard some on GP describe Jenning’s actions as bragging.

    I’ve never had an opinion of how Jennings conducted himself after the incident. I’ve only weighed in on the matter at the heart of the question–namely his decision to advise the boy to use condoms and not report the boy to the school authorities, as is in his job description. And, I’ve also expressed by disgust at the early twentysomething stranger in question.

    If the same incident were to happen today, the actions of Jennings might be a lot different (as others in his position). We live in a different time when they are outlets, organizations and support groups which are available to gay youth that there wasn’t 2 1/2 decades ago.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 6:22 pm - March 21, 2012

  95. As far as Post #94, if I am missing any of the facts, please point them out.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 6:24 pm - March 21, 2012

  96. Sorry, I just have someplace else to be right now and don’t care to do a full re-litigation of the Jennings matter… as you suggest, we are unlikely to convince each other.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — March 21, 2012 @ 6:39 pm - March 21, 2012

  97. Hi NDT,
    Wow, this thread has grown. Let me ask you this:

    That is what liberal gays like you say, and liberal gays like you state of that post and that author, “everything he said is true, and then some”.

    To me, your comment is problematic. There is a problem because you are saying “people LIKE you.” Why not actually address the person who made the comment? I think your oft-repeated quote concerning Dan is vile and untrue. On this you and I agree. Why not address me and my argument, rather than “someone like me” and “someone else’s” argument? As it is, there isn’t a lot to say, since I made the argument I did, not an argument LIKE mine.

    Hi ILC,

    For example, as I already clarified at comment #27, I never claimed that the self-loathing views/behaviors I listed were 100% unique to the Left (or 100% absent from the Right).

    And if you read my comment more closely, you will see that I didn’t say that you did. I was wondering what rates of parasitism (I think you would like that term) would be found on the left AND the right.

    But this leads me to my question–why talk about left gay men in your comment, when what you were saying is that, in your opinion, lefties are more likely to be self-loathing than righties in economic (or ideological, maybe?) terms–government payments in lieu of career; higher acceptance of taxation. Being gay has nothing to do with this, does it? It is not an essential characteristic.

    When you say:

    Dan brought up the frequently-heard charge that gay conservatives are self-loathing. My comment cited several examples of views/lifestyles that are fairly common on the gay left, which would show their self-loathing.

    it got me thinking. The “lifestyle” that Dan’s link speaks to is a “lifestyle” that concerns a person’s sexuality and sense of personal identity. The critique of self-loathing issued by some concerning some conservative gays, is not an economic one, but one that works at the level of personal identity. As such, I can see that economic factors play a role in the formation of identity, but I don’t see that as being on the same level as sexuality/gender/etc. Do you? Maybe we differ on that point.

    It seems to me that your comment was actually about liberal-leaning individuals rather than gay individuals per se.

    Hi RS,
    Thanks for your thoughts, @68 even if I do not agree with your conclusions.

    Comment by Cas — March 21, 2012 @ 6:56 pm - March 21, 2012

  98. don’t care to do a full re-litigation of the Jennings matter

    No full litigation necessary. I just want to know if this is a matter of us looking at the same situation and being of two different opinions. Yes, we won’t convince each other anything, but I would like to know if I have any of the facts wrong. That is all. Quite simple.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 21, 2012 @ 7:08 pm - March 21, 2012

  99. […] understand that the commentary in the thread of a recent post (The smallness of the haters on the left) has become pretty acrimonious.  I have not followed the thread nor do I intend to, but have heard […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » Once again, please* keep the comments civil — March 22, 2012 @ 2:43 am - March 22, 2012

  100. To me, your comment is problematic. There is a problem because you are saying “people LIKE you.” Why not actually address the person who made the comment? I think your oft-repeated quote concerning Dan is vile and untrue. On this you and I agree. Why not address me and my argument, rather than “someone like me” and “someone else’s” argument?

    Because, little bigot, you will not confront your fellow liberals who say “vile and untrue” things.

    That demonstrates you are lying. If your adherence was to principles, you would confront your fellow liberals. You don’t, so clearly you are lying.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — March 22, 2012 @ 3:15 pm - March 22, 2012

  101. Because, little bigot, you will not confront your fellow liberals who say “vile and untrue” things.

    Well, at least that is directed TO me, and not someone LIKE me 🙂

    Comment by Cas — March 22, 2012 @ 3:45 pm - March 22, 2012

  102. Hopefully, gays on the right who would engage in such miserable, base bigotry would be shouted down by others on the right.

    Nope, not very often. And, I think I can guess what your take on “hope” generally is, if the 2008 election was any indication, so you might consider a better choice of word.

    Funny, how it happens right under your nose, Helio, and yet, you either don’t see it or choose to ignore it. Do you want me to go to Costco for you? Geez.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — March 22, 2012 @ 9:44 pm - March 22, 2012

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