Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, jury duty and the press
Five years ago, serving on a Los Angeles jury trying a civil case, I, listening to the plaintiff’s lawyer’s opening statement, became convinced of that defendant’s liability. As the case proceeded, however, with witnesses offered their testimony and being subject to cross-examination, I found gaping holes in the plaintiff’s case, notably their failure to corroborate her accusations — particularly her lawyer’s failure to ask the one witness who, she had claimed (in her testimony), had seen the defendant sexually harassing her.
For that was the nature of the case.
There was indeed strong circumstantial evidence suggesting sexual harassment, but nothing substantial. Which brings me to the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case. When I first head the story, I assumed, as did most Americans, that this had been a miscarriage of justice, but like my experience on that LA jury, I wanted to learn the facts before rendering final judgment.
The contrast, however, is that in my jury experience, I fist heard the narrative from an interested party, in that case, the plaintiff’s attorney, but with the Martin/Zimmerman story, my sources were the legacy media (if you count CNN, Yahoo! and AOL as “legacy”). It was as if they were playing the role of the plaintiff or prosecution, presenting one side of the case, not of a neutral arbiter trying to find the facts.
The media, to borrow an expression from Ann Althouse, operated as participants “in the use and exploitation of these 2 unfortunate men.”
In the past few days, they have started their walkback, with this image appearing on Yahoo!’s home page:
The facts present a far murkier story than the initial media narrative. And the picture that emerges of George Zimmerman far more complex. We learned that at least one “news” outlet was just presenting the facts beneficial to their side, but presenting them in such a way as to better make their case.
Having “completed its investigation into the mishandling of the police dispatcher’s conversation with George Zimmerman in the Trayvon Martin case“, NBC, writes the Washington Post’s Erik Wemple, has now acknowledged its error and apologized.
Shouldn’t the network have had safeguards in place to prevent its journalists from making such errors?
Instead of acting as independent arbiters, all too many in the legacy media instead act as zealous prosecutors, convinced the facts will fit their arguments narrative. When they did not, they found themselves in an awkward position, chastened perhaps, but also better able to understand why distrust in the U.S. media has reached a record high, with only one in four Americans having a high (or very high) level of trust in journalists.
They might increase that level of trust if they stopped pretending they were judges while acting like prosecutors.
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Stick with the Orlando Sentinel
Comment by TGC — April 3, 2012 @ 9:54 pm - April 3, 2012
And I don’t think Geraldo should’ve apologized. His central point was about parents protecting their kids. The liberals went apeshitspiceygonzo about having the freedom to wear hoodies if they wanted to. Special Ed breathlessly pointed out that Geraldo’s son had sent a disapproving Tweet about his comments as if teens have never been embarrassed by their parents before.
Further, you don’t see ski masks much anymore. Wonder why that is. And I seem to remember Columbine HS banning black trench coats. I don’t really recall much details on that, but I don’t think liberals nationwide raised almighty hell about that one.
Comment by TGC — April 3, 2012 @ 11:13 pm - April 3, 2012
Oh gee, thank heavens we have the conservative movement to stick up for the people that run around their neighborhoods shooting teenagers. As we all know, getting punched in the face means you get to shoot someone with a gun. It’s no big deal, because there is an amendment in the Constitution about guns.
Used to be a time when shooting an unarmed human being would get you called a coward, but thankfully we have the conservative movement, who’ve recently been convinced that torturing people and invading third world countries is an act of noble bravery, to dig for all the nuance in the ‘unfortunate’ and ‘complex’ George Zimmerman. Let’s make sure that whatever we do, we take George Zimmerman at his word, because it’s not like he has any reason to lie or anything! And right along with that is assuming the worst about the dead kid that can’t defend himself or give his side of the story on account of his being dead. I know that I always give the benefit of the doubt to people that chase kids around in their neighborhoods with loaded firearms and that murder victims have to take responsibility for getting themselves murdered.
Oh, Dan needs to learn the facts before he weighs in on this one, huh? It’s so important for Dan to catalog all the examples of media bias about this story before he decides who was ultimately in the wrong. This is one of those classic, impossible ethical dilemmas, and it’s so hard to imagine what a typical, rational human being would have done in this situation. None of us know for sure whether or not we’ll be ready to start shooting our guns at suspicious people until it really happens, I guess. I applaud your sense of justice Dan, I really do. Getting to the bottom of how NBC covers this story is the most important thing right now, isn’t it?
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 12:44 am - April 4, 2012
Wow Levi… Even I’m disgusted with that rant…. And I have a high tolerance for inane rants.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 1:02 am - April 4, 2012
Can you spare any disgust for the people trying to make excuses for someone that killed a teenager for no reason?
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 1:08 am - April 4, 2012
No, Levi, if you read my post, you’d understand that before i make a judgment in this case I want to know all the facts. And the more facts that come out, the less clear it seems and the less accurate the initial media narrative.
I’m still not sure whether Mr. Zimmerman should go scot-free, but will trust to the local authorities investigating the case to reach a just decision.
Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — April 4, 2012 @ 1:10 am - April 4, 2012
Or, maybe, we could let the case get investigated and tried without everybody butting in and trying it in the court of public opinion.
PS. In my opinion, under the “Stand Your Ground” George Zimmerman is guilty because he is the one who initiated the violence by pursuing Mr Martin.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 1:10 am - April 4, 2012
So you are a witness? You were there?????
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 1:12 am - April 4, 2012
Levi: Speaking for myself, I have plenty of disgust for you, as you pre-judge the case on incomplete facts.
Whether I have disgust for Zimmerman is a question to be answered later, once we have all the relevant facts.
Again pre-judging the case. Furthermore, “stand your ground” usually requires a *reasonable* belief of a threat. Martin would have had to, in the judgment of a jury, believe *reasonably* that Zimmerman posed a threat. Martin’s emotional, subjective judgment of the matter would not be good enough; other people would have to agree that he had good reason to ascertain a threat. At which point, it would be time for hispanics to get up in arms (about anti-Hispanic bias).
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 1:27 am - April 4, 2012
(continued – Zimmerman being every bit as Hispanic as President Obama is black, that is to say, one-half)
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 1:28 am - April 4, 2012
Lets just put it this way… I want to be deliberate in finding whether or not Zimmerman is guilty. Do we really want another Cameron Todd Willingham type case.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 1:30 am - April 4, 2012
What hypothetical facts could come in that would justify this? If it could somehow be discovered that Trayvon was casing the neighborhood to steal everyone’s car, does that justify him getting shot? What justification could there possibly be for Zimmerman not waiting 5 minutes for the cops to arrive? I’m all for thorough investigations and due process too, but to start talking about how unfortunate and complex George Zimmerman is? As if he is some kind of victim? As if he got caught up in a situation that any other human being could have been caught up in? Pffft. It’s a free country and you have every right to express sympathy for the guy that chased a kid down with a gun if you’d like, but I think that’s ridiculous.
I also don’t understand the purpose of dragging your obsession with media bias into the discussion. So NBC is basically a sensationalistic tabloid that selectively edits stuff because it plays to their audience better…. what bearing does that have on the facts of this case? How does that adversely affect your ability to tell who was in the wrong here? This seems fairly cut and dry regardless of how the media exploits it, and there’s no reason to let yourself get bogged down in minutiae like this. By the way, you’re fooling yourself if you think Fox News isn’t doing the exact same thing. These are corporations that were built to make money, not tell you the truth, and if you’re going to let them get you all spun around to the point where you can’t tell right from wrong on a story as simple as this one, then I’m sorry to inform you, but you’re their favorite kind of news consumer.
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 1:36 am - April 4, 2012
Good, we can agree on that.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 1:38 am - April 4, 2012
ILC, I’m hoping to have time to write a post about the voice analysis news items that came out the other day. I have a bit of a different angle than most I’ve seen so far.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 1:39 am - April 4, 2012
To say that Zimmerman killed a teenager for no reason is fairly non-controversial if you ask me.
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 1:41 am - April 4, 2012
Hypothetically: Zimmerman could have called 9-11 to request police help, realized it would take a few minutes, acted as a good citizen to ask reasonable questions of strangers, and been physically attacked by Martin in response, putting Zimmerman in the position of needing to defend his life.
Hypothetically. We still don’t really know.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 1:42 am - April 4, 2012
But no one did.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 1:43 am - April 4, 2012
(ask you)
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 1:43 am - April 4, 2012
Indeed. Because otherwise we’d have the “Post-racial” lynch mobs going around rounding up people they don’t like for immediate liquidation. Plus, we’d have Stay on the Ground laws where white devils better not resist when a black is pummeling them.
How about presenting evidence to the contrary? You know, stuff that KOSholes don’t make up.
Well, if he’s really the murderous bastard you WANT him to be, why lie about it? Why all the agitprop? Unless, of course, the whole point is to exploit the kid for financial and/or political gain. Think you can keep this distraction going until November?
Can you spare any disgust for the pieces of filth benefitting from this, like his mother?
I think you would find a lot more sympathy if you weren’t so hellbent on bullshitting the American people. Even more so without the history of Tawana Brawley, the Jena Six, the Duke Lacrosse kerfuffle etc. etc. etc.
Just how much mileage do you think you can get out of screaming “raaaaaacist!” before people stop listening to you?
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 1:54 am - April 4, 2012
Oh and the liberal bullying and terrorizing innocent people is going over very well for you either.
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 1:56 am - April 4, 2012
i don’t get why this statement doesn’t trouble you deeply. It should. You are judging a situation long before all the facts are known. I’m sensitive to this because I’ve been in a situation where the shoe of presumed guilt was on my foot.
I was in a rather odd auto accident when I was 18. Actually ran over someone.
Long story short, I was involved in an accident where I ran over a guy laying in the middle of the road on a dark night. I was coming over an overpass and there had been an accident on the other side, where a drunk 50 something motorcyclist had tried to get on the freeway, but turned onto the wrong ramp and got hit by someone else, thus throwing him into the middle of the road. A few minutes later, I came over the ridge. It was a two lane road, and there were 4 cars in the other lane. The car in front had its brights on to try and warn me.
Bad move.
I could see nothing in front of me until it was too late. In an instant I saw two people jump out of my path and then I saw the dead body in the road. I didn’t hardly have time to slam on my brakes before the inevitable bump bump.
I had unbelievably just ran over a guy!
Right after I ran over the guy, I stopped, jumped out of the car, and ran over two the two people that tried to warn me. It was a mother and son, the wife and son of the dead guy I just ran over. The son was tall, I was short, and in between my unanswered pleas of “what happened” “did anyone call the cops”, the son was yelling at me, telling me to move my car and get the hell out of here”. In retrospect, I think he was trying to tell me to get out of his face, but I took him literally and got back into my car and slowly drove off. I know, you’re thinking “you shouldn’t have left”.
Agreed. But I was young, very inexperienced (had hardly ever got into trouble for anything – my little bro, despite his insults, will confirm this) and was very much in shock.
A short time later, I went to the police station to tell them what had happened, and I ended up getting arrested for hit and run. That was when they told me that he was still alive when I got there, and if he dies, I will be charged with a felony… Possibly manslaughter.
The problem was, I had noted in my written statement that the son had told me to “get the hell out of here”, the family of the guy who I ran over did not mention that in their report.
By the time the arraignment hearing came around, there were witnesses from the other 4 cars who had corroborated my version of the events. Instead of getting jail time, I ended up getting DA’s probation for a year, where this incident was not on my official record, but the judge who tried my case would have a record, and if I got in trouble and ended up in his court, he would throw the book at me big time. Meanwhile, the family had in their minds that I was a heartless miscreant teenage hooligan druggie and wanted me locked up. They also tried to sue me for all sorts of things. But with the prosecutor backing off and not pursuing charges, they not only saw me walk, they also got a paltry settlement from the insurance company.
Even though I had never been in trouble with the law at all, had no record of any kind, I was none-the-less portrayed as someone and something I was not.
Case in point. My older brother was living in San Diego at the time, somewhat estranged from the family. His girlfriend, someone I had gone to high school with, happened to be very good friends with the victim and his family. My brother had heard I was in some sort of scrape, but didn’t get any details. His girlfriend had heard the other sides version of events, including the “fact” that the drug-using teenage shit had walked away scott-free! Some time later, they put together the two and realized I was “the other guy” in that accident. His girl friend tried to talk to the family and tell them that they were wrong about me, that their image of me was incorrect. She was, as we say today, “unfriended”.
Oh, that was going to be a long story short. Point is, all the fact in this case are not known.
George Zimmerman is getting hammered, maybe unfairly, in the court of public opinion. If – and this is an “if” – someone was on top of you and slugging you, and you feared for your life, that could be reason. I don’t know if that is what happened, but neither do you know that Zimmerman simply pulled out his gun and decided to off the black guy, because, well, he’s a black guy.
Again, I’m not sure if I buy the story. But lets not convict him until we really do have all the facts.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 1:56 am - April 4, 2012
PS. I also didn’t have a very good lawyer. I learned through a friend who became a a few years later, that my lawyer should have argued to have the h whole case dropped with no probation.
Oh well.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 2:00 am - April 4, 2012
….a friend who became a lawyer a few years later….
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 2:04 am - April 4, 2012
#22 Maybe, I dunno, but there’s no doubt you should be thankful for that turnout.
You know, I keep hoping somebody can explain how a guy who tutored black kids for free would suddenly head out in his car cruising for black kids to shoot. What’s more, why would he call the cops before doing so? And then why would he get out of his car and get close enough for an altercation? The story we’re supposed to believe just doesn’t make sense. Nor does it seem to be based in any kind of reality.
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 2:09 am - April 4, 2012
And is it me or did race sorta exit the whole deal once it was revealed that Zimmerman was a fellow dimocreep of Levi’s?
Then again, they’re party does have a long history of killing blacks for sh*ts and giggles (or voting the wrong way).
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 2:11 am - April 4, 2012
Their, rather.
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 2:11 am - April 4, 2012
TGC… No it wasn’t the worst turn out by any means. It could have gone worse, and in fact I had hardened myself to that probability. I was very cold on the inside, and figured I was headed to jilail.
One detail I forgot to note – When I stopped after I ran over the dead guy, I had absolutely no thought of leaving the scene. It never crossed my mind. I viewed the son as an authority figure and when he kept telling me to get the hell outof here, I unfortunatetly took his advise.
Also, I didn’t drink at all in those days, so there was no alcohol involved.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 2:48 am - April 4, 2012
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#3 and#12…..This is clearly why some people have to be excluded from juries. Some people just aren’t cut out for the job.
Comment by Scott Lassiter — April 4, 2012 @ 6:00 am - April 4, 2012
I agree that we should reserve judgementuntil more data is known.
I mean heck, that picture of Martin in the screen-cap is when he was 13. Bias much?
Fortunately my story didn’t turn as dark as sonics, but post-divorce, I was living in a bad part of town (so bad that my apartment was the last apartment block they’d deliver pizza to. Keep in mind I lived at the front of the complex) There was a knock on the door at 6:30. I look through the peephole and there’s a guy standing there, hands in front pocket of the hoodie and his hood up.
Since I am helpful, I opened the door to see what he needed, while levelling my sword at his belly. (I didn’t have ammo for my pistol, and I don’t bluff). Turns out he was a high schooler out raising money for band. I told him that at dusk, with his hoodie up and hands in pocket in this neighborhood, it was a good way to develop a case of the deads.
(This was 2006, FYI).
Comment by The Livewire — April 4, 2012 @ 7:49 am - April 4, 2012
THe best part about the commentary about Zimmerman shooting an “unarmed” teenager is the assertion that without a gun he is harmless.
For the fatuous commenters like Levi who seem to draw that lame conclusion I will give you a hint. Google “Knock-out” game and come back and tell us how many people have died as aresult of the single punch.
Comment by d — April 4, 2012 @ 7:56 am - April 4, 2012
Supposing Martin did punch Zimmerman, wouldn’t he have been within his rights? I mean this guy was chasing after him, what about Martin’s right to stand his ground? What if things had turned out differently, and Martin had incapacitated Zimmerman or was able to wrestle away the gun? The point is, you shouldn’t go running after people with a loaded firearm and then express shock when they don’t take kindly to you. If Zimmerman got his ass kicked
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 8:21 am - April 4, 2012
It was deserved. For him to argue that he was in fear for his life when he was the person chasing down somebody is really beyond belief. You can’t go around threatening people like that and think you’re justified to shoot them dead because they don’t appreciate it.
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 8:23 am - April 4, 2012
Of course, our woman hating Levi ignores the contradictory data for fear of it changing his mind.
We know that Zimmerman was injured. We know that the police report documented the injuries. We know ABC and MSNBC engaged in ‘creative edits’. We don’t know if Mr. Zimmerman was returning to the car when the actual scuffle broke out.
We also know Levi has no clue.
Now hush Levi, the adults are talking.
Comment by The Livewire — April 4, 2012 @ 9:19 am - April 4, 2012
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What we have here is screaming racist pond scum Levi trying desperately to deflect and spin from the fact that he and his fellow liberals are screaming for a Hispanic man to be lynched, putting illegal bounties out on a man’s head, and tweeting his address, his family’s addresses, his friends’ addresses, and witnesses’s addresses, all while making threats of violence and murder.
In short, Levi is calling for George Zimmerman, his family, and all the witnesses that are hostile to Levi’s predetermined judgment to be harassed, attacked, and/or murdered.
Moreover, Levi is openly defending and spinning for the Obama-controlled media’s deliberate and malicious altering of evidence to push the Obama Party narrative.
Levi is, of course, just aping his leaders and following the violent, eliminationist rhetoric spewing from the mouths of Barack Obama and the Obama Party, who have openly called for attacks, race-baited, and protected the racist base of the Obama Party from the sort of consequences that would have a white person jailed for hate speech and threats.
But that makes him no less repulsive. And I hope people like Sonic are realizing that, in your case, had the man in your situation been black, the racist Levi and his Barack Obama Party would be threatening you, your partner, your friends, and your family with murder, tweeting your address with calls for violence, and having Barack Obama rant about how you killed his son.
But that makes it no less repulsive —
With the full endorsement of
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 4, 2012 @ 10:03 am - April 4, 2012
Oh, and screaming, bleating Levi,
Because we know damn well that had Trayvon Martin shot and killed Zimmerman, there would be no marches, no bounties, no threats, no Obama thugs grandstanding in hoodies in Congress, no Obama screaming about his “son”, nothing of the sort.
Indeed, it would have been the opposite — a full ranting chorus of Obamabots yelling “Free Trayvon”, insistence that Zimmerman had provoked it, arguing that Trayvon shouldn’t be held responsible for a momentary lapse, etc. — and certainly no whining about “stand your ground” or firearms laws.
Your Barack and you both made fools out of yourself, Levi. Americans now see clearly that you do NOT believe in justice, due process, or equal treatment; you believe in mob rule, violence, and blatantly-racist application of laws.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 4, 2012 @ 10:11 am - April 4, 2012
Meanwhile, there’s a very good way to demonstrate that Levi, Barack Obama, and the entire Obama left are nothing more than race-baiting hypocrites and bigots.
Compare and contrast their response to the actions of one of Obama’s “sons”.
Now, will the shrieking little Levi and the Obama Thug Party countenance white people calling for him to be lynched, white people holding rallies, white people altering evidence to make him look racist, white people tweeting his family’s and friends’ addresses with threats of death and violence, Republicans grandstanding in Congress wearing overalls and talking about anti-white racism, calls for laws to make it clear that blacks are evil, etc. ?
Of course not. And that demonstrates the sick bigotry and racist hate of Levi, Barack Obama, and the Obama Party.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 4, 2012 @ 10:31 am - April 4, 2012
1.) How did Martin know that Zimmerman had a gun?
2.) How did Martin know that Zimmerman’s gun was loaded?
1.) What constitutes “chasing somebody down” and what constitutes “keeping a watch” on the neighborhood?
2.) Is it already decided that Zimmerman confronted Martin? On what evidence?
Whew!
1.) To say that a teenager was killed for no reason is to say that Zimmerman took the opportunity to kill the teenager.
2.) That statement requires an examination of malice, motive and intent on the part of Zimmerman.
3.) To say that the claim is “fairly non-controversial” is to say this is an open and shut case.
4.) Please, Levi, bring us the facts.
You know, something like this: It was a dark and gloomy night. Innocent, cherub-faced Trayvon Martin went out into the dank and drizzle to get his sweet younger brother some Skittles. It was an act of pure kindness. Trayvon pulled his hood over his head to protect himself from the rain.
Lurking in the shadows was a White Hispanic man who fancied himself to be in training for law enforcement. He was armed with a loaded pistol and ready for a deadly encounter. Zimmerman, the watcher, spotted Trayvon alone in the rain with his hood up and began to follow him.
You can take the narrative from there, Levi. We all get the picture as you see it. ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NPR and all the others have streamed their variation of this theme since day one. And Al Sharpton has spared no license in his “details” while drumming up excitement with his racist rent-a-mob and friends of the New Black Panthers.
Why don’t you just call for lynching Zimmerman and get it over with? It should be a fairly non-controversial thing to say, by your reckoning.
Comment by heliotrope — April 4, 2012 @ 10:40 am - April 4, 2012
Good. Now we’re getting somewhere.
I expect, in Zimmermans mind, since he is a neighborhood watch, his following of Mr Martin was all a part of him doing his job. In Zimmermans mind, he was in the right because he is simply protecting the property of this neighborhood, and also, if the police apprehend this trespasser / potential thief (remember, this isn’t my thoughts but rather the thoughts of Zimmerman) and he gets put on a better path, then he is doing the community a favor. I expect Zimmerman’s done the same thing a dozen times or more without incident. In this one instance, unlike the others, this guy turned around and fought back.
In Mr Martin’s head, he’s simply walking home, taking the short-cut he’s taken a dozen times…. Why the hell is this guy following me?
Here is the part where seeing the first police report is important. Was Zimmerman wearing a raincoat that identified him as a neighborhood watch that was taken off before or during his arrest? If so, that would not only give him more cover under “stand Your Ground”, but would also explain why he didn’t have any visible blood on his clothes.
There are, to me, still too many facts that are unknown and open possibilities in this case to automatically cast Zimmerman as the boogeyman in this tragic occurrence.
Comment by sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 10:43 am - April 4, 2012
Color me confused.
Are we about to embark on some sort of internet game where little snippets pop up like whack-a-mole and everyone pounces at once?
I far prefer to let the pros handle this under the intense scrutiny that has been cast on the case and save the Sherlock Holmes clues and innuendo for the Monday morning quarterbacking after the verdict has been reached.
I am not an accredited sleuth, nor do I play one in the shower.
Comment by heliotrope — April 4, 2012 @ 11:10 am - April 4, 2012
LOL
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 11:40 am - April 4, 2012
Normally I’m of the “…better judged by twelve than carried by six”-camp, BUT…
A. Zimmerman seems to be the aggressor here, not Martin.
B. “Judged by Twelve” implies an investigation and potentially official adjudication. Not just some “waving of hands”, a pat-on-the-back, and sending the guy home without any investigation or forensics.
Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — April 4, 2012 @ 11:46 am - April 4, 2012
Ted… At this point, that is where I lean. But I want more details before I solidify my opinion… And that is what it is, an opinion, based on an incomplete fact set.
Comment by Sonicfrog — April 4, 2012 @ 12:15 pm - April 4, 2012
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Sonic, Ted,
I think that’s the key. We can speculate on his guilt or innocence on the (admittedly biased) information available. I think most of us accept that we might be wrong.
Certain racist truthers OTOH…
Comment by The Livewire — April 4, 2012 @ 12:27 pm - April 4, 2012
Oh for lord’s sake folks! We really do NOT know what happened. For example:
911 operator told Zimmerman to NOT follow “suspect.” That does not mean that he continued to follow martin!
Martin tweeted his girlfriend that he was being followed and that he was going to do something about it. That, also, does not mean that he went after Zimmerman.
I could go on and on pulling whatever “facts” I wanted to justify my opinion; But, I think Dan does have a point (in his jury duty case) that we really don’t hear ALL the facts and so really cannot justify any conclusion. And, yes, it would be nice if the “news media” did the same.
Comment by Charles — April 4, 2012 @ 1:40 pm - April 4, 2012
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Well, isn’t this interesting.
Nothing from Levi or Barack Obama about that. Shows very well how the liar Levi and Barack Obama agree that it’s perfectly fine for Obama’s children to be violent little thugs and beat up white elderly people.
And how about that 17-year-old shooting someone? Funny, I don’t recall Levi or Barack Obama or the Barack Obama Party screaming that black gangbangers who shoot people need to be imprisoned. I guess it’s perfectly OK for Levi and Barack Obama if black gangbangers shoot and assault people.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 4, 2012 @ 3:07 pm - April 4, 2012
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Did he?
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 6:25 pm - April 4, 2012
Interestingly, we knew almost three weeks ago that it wasn’t Martin screaming for help. That begs the question why the media decided to get audio experts to check only Zimmerman’s voice and conclude that they couldn’t say for sure?
http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/sanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 6:30 pm - April 4, 2012
Exactly. What if Zimmerman only had a hidden firearm, that he was licensed to carry, and only pulled out when his life was in danger i.e. as Martin was attacking him?
Hypothetically.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 7:05 pm - April 4, 2012
Only for another few years, NDT. White elderly people today are still the WW2 / Korea generation, the hated “squares” that no hippie should trust. But the baby boomers (hippies) are rapidly entering their age cohort. I predict that within 10 years, perhaps as little as 5, picking on the elderly will be the absolute blackest sin ever known in the whole of human history, much worse than the Holocaust… among liberals.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 4, 2012 @ 7:09 pm - April 4, 2012
[...] Gay Patriot – Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by Pssssst! | — April 4, 2012 @ 10:02 pm - April 4, 2012
Does Martin know why Zimmerman is following him? Does he know if Zimmerman is carrying weapons? Does he know if Zimmerman wants to kidnap him or mug him or rape him? The moment that Martin recognizes that he’s being followed, I’d say he has legitimate reason to feel threatened and is justified in fighting back against Zimmerman. All Martin knows is that he’s alone and unarmed and that he’s being stalked – who could possibly blame him for wanting to physically defend himself? That’s not to say that Martin did fight with Zimmerman, only to say that he’d be justified if he did. Zimmerman initiated the conflict and made the initial threat, and was at least deserving of a punch to the nose for his overzealousness. Again – what about Trayvon’s right to stand his ground? People are just supposed to submit to being chased by strangers?
Yes, I know. Conservatives think racism isn’t a problem, so it’s no big deal that a dead black kid shows up, no one is charged with a crime, and the investigation is bungled by the police. Go ahead and tell yourself that any part of this story could have happened to a white kid, if you want to sound stupid, I guess?
Comment by Levi — April 4, 2012 @ 10:41 pm - April 4, 2012
After the moment that Martin hid from Zimmerman CAUSING him to start looking for where he went, he gave up the option of “fighting back”. He became the aggressor.
That’s exactly what members of your party are demanding right now.
Only those liberals can exploit to push their fascist agendas. The rest, they couldn’t give a damn less about.
You mean Zimmerman’s rights weren’t violated to soothe the savage fcuktards. Besides, the real reply to that statement you made would be: “Yet(?)”. However, the whole kerfuffle seems to be falling apart.
[Citation Needed]
You’re absolutely right. Al Sharpton would never get his fat, tax cheating ass out of his bed of cash if it happened to a white kid. The black panther terrorist organization wouldn’t have the slightest interest. There wouldn’t be the usual liberal bullying and terrorizing of innocent people. Nor would the liberal media fall all over themselves to see who could be the biggest lying POS.
Go ahead and keep spinning the agitprop if you want to continue looking like the biggest horses ass on the internet, I guess?
Comment by TGC — April 4, 2012 @ 11:45 pm - April 4, 2012
[...] Gay Patriot – Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by Watcher’s Council Nominations…Pharaoh, Let Our People Go!!! Edition | Independent Sentinel — April 5, 2012 @ 12:41 am - April 5, 2012
The fact still remains that he was more likely to be killed by another black. Go ahead and tell yourself that blacks and liberals give a crap about that reality, if you want to sound stupid, I guess.
Comment by TGC — April 5, 2012 @ 1:36 am - April 5, 2012
Wasn’t there something about Martin having a cell phone? I can’t remember….Hmmmm
Comment by TGC — April 5, 2012 @ 2:40 am - April 5, 2012
Fixed
Look, Levi’s lying again.
Now hush Levi, the adults are talking.
Comment by The Livewire — April 5, 2012 @ 8:15 am - April 5, 2012
I kind of like Levi’s script. Martin was stalked. He was on his cell phone telling his girl friend he was being stalked. She told him to run.
Meanwhile, Zimmerman, the stalker was on his cell phone with 911 and being told not to stalk.
(dramatic music)
Run, Trayvon, run! Don’t stalk, Zimmerman, don’t stalk! (This should be shot in black and white—right?) (intense dramatic music)
Zimmerman loses track of Martin. JOLT: Martin is confronting Zimmerman.
Take it from there Levi, this is getting good. I especially want to hear the part about the loaded gun and how it leads to:
The thrill of WHITE (hispanic) on BLACK crime is exhilarating. Bring in the clowns: Al, ABC, NBC, the imaginary son, and the rest of the cast and crew of the circus of the mind.
Comment by heliotrope — April 5, 2012 @ 9:53 am - April 5, 2012
The Left heard “Zimmerman” and hoped it meant he was a white Nazi vigilante rightist (sic; Nazism was actually a left-wing movement, but the Left tries to hide that) who would stand-in conveniently for Obama’s white grandmother and all other white people in Amerikkka.
The Left was wrong. As usual, life is more complicated than their pathetic stereotypes. Much more complicated.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 5, 2012 @ 10:55 am - April 5, 2012
“ZIMMERMAN SAID ‘COLD’ NOT ‘CO*N’; MOST TRUSTED NAME IN NEWS BACKPEDALS”
Shorter CNN to George Zimmerman:
Gee, George, sorry we pretty much declared you a racist in front of all of America before having all the facts, but Obama’s all-in on this one and we’re all-in for Obama and since you’re a registered Democrat, we think you’ll understand.
XXXOOO
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/04/05/CNN-Coon-Cold-Zimmerman
Comment by TGC — April 5, 2012 @ 5:44 pm - April 5, 2012
A guy who had a car and a gun was stalking a kid who was walking in the rain. The guy with a car and a gun had been told by 911 not to follow the kid, but. The guy followed him and the kid ended up getting shot. Oh, and by the way, the kid may have punched and kicked the guy who was stalking him before the kid was killed.
There ya go. situation described with no mention of race.
Comment by Kevin — April 5, 2012 @ 11:08 pm - April 5, 2012
Wowsers! So I can see the board is pretty divided. The problem that I’m having is that regardless if you claim self defense you have to prove it in a court of law! If I shot George and claimed self defense I’m pretty sure I’d be locked up. Cut and dry! Then it’s up to me to get a legal team to prove my innocence. I’m not understanding why GZ hasn’t been charged! He’s not protected under the law says the author of this law…(There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense.”) He was told not to pursue Trayvon & he continued on (per 911 call) if your afraid why the HELL would you get out of your vehicle?! Why not wait until the police arrive to lead them to where he seen Trayvon?! He is responsible for his death and should be punished it for it. I won’t be shocked if he’s not because race does play a part in it. If both parties were black it would be no national story and the shooter would be preparing for trial behind bars. We already see how race plays a factor in these cases ie Sean Bell. In cases for blacks it’s guilty until proven innocent, but if your anything other than black he’ll your innocent until proven guilty. Only thing Trayvon was guilty of was walking while black in this racist country.
Comment by Kesha — April 5, 2012 @ 11:17 pm - April 5, 2012
Kevin & Kesha (convenient?), I have about 10 years experience in EMS and 911 dispatching. I’m curious, which law mandates that every person do what a dispatcher tells them to do? How many prosecutions have there been in the US because people didn’t do what they were told by the dispatcher?
Here in Polk County, one county over from Seminole, dispatchers ask people if they want to do CPR. They don’t tell callers to do it because not everybody is comfortable with it or it may go against their beliefs. They also ask people to put any dogs that might be in the home in another room for the safety of the responders. Do you think everybody does it? I can tell you that they don’t. Do you think there are any prosecutions because they didn’t do what the dispatcher suggested? I can tell you that there hasn’t been any.
The guy lost sight of him. He was free. He had a cell phone. If he really feared for his life, why didn’t he call 911? Why didn’t the girlfriend? It does seem that Martin went to Zimmerman. Therefore, he was no longer the victim. You can’t claim that he was standing his ground because he was away from and out of sight of Zimmerman. He’d already left his ground. It’s fight OR flight and not flight and then go back to fight.
I’ll tell you one damn thing, even if Zimmerman is proven and convicted of being the murderous, racist bastard you so desperately want him to be, I would still hold him in higher regard than the pieces of excrement that are exploiting Martin’s death for personal, financial and political gain. A helluva lot higher.
Comment by TGC — April 6, 2012 @ 1:32 am - April 6, 2012
Lack of evidence and probable cause. This is America, you know. How much longer remains the question. The fact that so many demand that our laws be violated doesn’t help much.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-trayvon-martin-probable-cause-20120404,0,7910080.story?page=2
Comment by TGC — April 6, 2012 @ 1:43 am - April 6, 2012
[...] – The Razor-The Insidious Nature of Student Loan Debt Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press Fourth place *t* with 2/3 vote – The Mellow Jihadi-The Cunning Muslim Bro’s Candidate Fourth [...]
Pingback by Watcher of Weasels » The Council Has Spoken!! This Week’s Watcher’s Council Results — April 6, 2012 @ 5:54 am - April 6, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by This Week’s Watcher’s Council Results | therightplanet.com — April 6, 2012 @ 6:27 am - April 6, 2012
Naah. More likely you’d be screaming that requiring a black person to follow the law is racist, just like you’re doing now.
The hilarity comes, Kesha, that you are screaming about double standards even as you Tweet wrong addresses and call for violence, make public statements demanding lynching, have race-supremacy groups putting out bounties, alter statements, deliberately misrepresent the situation, and threaten witnesses with violence — all of which would have and have had a white person in jail by now.
You are throwing a tantrum because you’re not getting what you want, due process, justice, and evidence be damned. And fortunately, more and more Americans are realizing that you, your Barack Obama, and your pathetic Sharpton and Jackson are nothing better than filthy race-baiters who will say and do anything to get what they want.
Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 6, 2012 @ 12:00 pm - April 6, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot – Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by Trevor Loudon's New Zeal Blog — April 6, 2012 @ 12:39 pm - April 6, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by The Council Has Spoken!! This Week’s Watcher’s Council Results 4-6-2012 | Virginia Right! — April 6, 2012 @ 3:44 pm - April 6, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by GayPatriot » Watcher of Weasels Results–Passover/Easter Edition — April 6, 2012 @ 4:48 pm - April 6, 2012
As I’ve said, there were results of an investigation. However, it’s a lot like Florida 2000: The results weren’t what the liberals wanted to hear so they demanded recounts (investigation) until the results they wanted could be found (manufactured?). The usual spoiled brats are throwing temper tantrums until they get their way.
Comment by TGC — April 6, 2012 @ 6:34 pm - April 6, 2012
Kesha,
Just curious about a reasonable “what if.” What if Kesha is legally armed. What if Kesha finds Kesha smacked and knocked down and Kesha’s head is being pounded on the pavement. What if Kesha’s gun is exposed in the process and Kesha and the aggressor both reach for it. What if Kesha gets the gun. What does Kesha do?
Forget what came first or who the person was who was the aggressor or why the person became an aggressor.
What does Kesha do?
As I said, just curious. No race need be mentioned.
Comment by heliotrope — April 6, 2012 @ 7:29 pm - April 6, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by The Council Has Spoken!! This Week’s Watcher’s Council Results | Independent Sentinel — April 6, 2012 @ 8:12 pm - April 6, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by Something Good | — April 6, 2012 @ 9:02 pm - April 6, 2012
someguy at ace posted the following summary of media missteps in this case:
So much for the idea that Zimmerman outweighed Martin by so very much blah blah. But hey lefties, never wait for the real facts. They’re not important, only ‘narrative’ is.
Comment by ` — April 8, 2012 @ 11:06 am - April 8, 2012
Above was from me, sorry my handle got horked somehow.
Comment by ILoveCapitalism — April 8, 2012 @ 12:15 pm - April 8, 2012
[...] Gay Patriot – Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by Bookworm Room » Fine stuff this week at the Watcher’s Council — April 9, 2012 @ 4:26 am - April 9, 2012
[...] Third place *t* with 1 vote – Gay Patriot-Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, Jury Duty And The Press [...]
Pingback by Bookworm Room » I’d be vibrating with exhaustion right now if I had the energy to vibrate — April 17, 2012 @ 6:38 am - April 17, 2012