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To make winning argument on health care,
Romney needs focus on replacing Obamacare–as well as on repeal

A number of conservatives, including yours truly, have been wary about backing Mitt Romney because of the health care reforms he signed as Governor of Massachusetts, i.e., Romneycare.  And although he has repeatedly (and explicitly) said that if elected, he would repeal Obamacare, some on the right remain unconvinced.

His campaign has even touted his commitment to repeal as this telling image from the Los Angeles Times indicates:

Note the shadow of the candidate on the sign, hence, the use of the adjective “telling” above to describe the image. Take a look at the sign the campaign produced; it doesn’t just include repeal, it also promise to “replace”.  And focusing on that replacement is key for Romney to turn popular opposition to the president’s health care overhaul to his advantage — even if the Supreme Court overturns the president’s signature initiative.

Topping Jennifer Rubin’s list of the 10 things Romney “needs to do . . .in order to position himself for the final sprint to November” is developing . . .

. . . a health-care plan to replace Obamacare. Whatever the Supreme Court does, Romney should be the one with a constitutional, free-market-based health-care plan. Then he can put the spotlight on President Obama: Is he going to use the post-election “flexibility” to implement a single-payer plan?

Such a plan would help him better appeal to conservatives, showing that he advocates conservative reforms.  And it would help him appeal to independent voters as well who, even before the passage of Obamacare, believed our health care system needed reform, ifnot the overhaul Democrats favored.

Here, Rubin considers some of the ideas conservatives have been considering.  Romney will improve his standing with conservatives as well as with wavering independents if he spells out the kind of reforms he favors to replace Obamacare.

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39 Comments

  1. Oh, brother!

    Obama runs on nothing, can’t defend anything in his four years, ….. wait, let me just quote this:

    “His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.”

    (Quote from a profile of Adolph Hitler, prepared for the Office of Strategic Services—the predecessor of the Central Intelligence Agency—by Walter C. Langer and three others during World War II.)

    So, since this is the Obama blueprint, why hand the sucker anything to demonize and attack.

    Obama is the enemy. He has committed gross and potentially lethal harms to our economy, our unity, our sense of purpose, our nation.

    Attack Obama, attack Obama, attack Obama. It is called OFFENSE.

    Put a plan of any merit out there and Obama will attack, attack, attack and be relentless. Make Obama defend Obama. Then belittle his defense and attack the defense he chooses to make. Then belittle the response and attack the response. Make Obama run around in the circles of his own circular arguments. Let him run against what he inherited and then tell him that what “I” inherit from you, “I” will fix and move forward. “You” have only succeeded in running us into the ground. “I” will reverse the direction and repair “your” damage.

    The last thing we need is another John McCain playing nice and playing by rules that keep him in the crosshairs.

    Sometimes I think there is general confusion on the part of RINO’s about what it means to be principled. This is no Miss America contest where Miss Congeniality gets a convertible. The TEA Party and the conservative base expect a fight that gives as good as it gets.

    Sure Obamacare can be fixed. First it must be erased and the economy must be restored and then a whole host of entitlement money pits need to be addressed.

    If someone thinks Obamacare replacement is in the top ten things bugging people and critical to our economy, that “someone” is totally out of touch with reality. It sounds like the bleating in Greece. Where did Jennifer Rubin get her political strategy training? From Vanity Fair?

    Comment by heliotrope — April 10, 2012 @ 3:21 pm - April 10, 2012

  2. The basic problem in health care is twofold:

    1) The government has wantonly and willfully distorted the market with perverse incentives (such as Medicaid/Medicare recipients paying nothing for emergency-room use), dictates (i.e. the must-fund-abortion mandate), and anti-competitive measures (blocking the sale of insurance across state lines, etc.)

    2) The tort system has been strained to the point of uselessness and forced the practice of wasteful “defensive medicine”

    With that in mind, there is no “national health care plan”. There is and should be a plan to repeal Obamacare and go after the government’s stupid mandates with a pickaxe, then allow insurance to be sold across state lines.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 10, 2012 @ 4:33 pm - April 10, 2012

  3. heliotrope: So your great idea on demonstrating how nasty Barack Obama’s tactics are is to compare them to Adolf Hitler’s.

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Satire is dead.

    Comment by Serenity — April 10, 2012 @ 4:53 pm - April 10, 2012

  4. The republican party is now a party without priciple.

    Comment by Richard Bell — April 10, 2012 @ 5:01 pm - April 10, 2012

  5. Pomposity,

    The OSS profiled how Hitler operated. The profile fits others. Are you here to tell me that I am saying Obama is a Hitler? Are you? Hitler was a male. Hitler had two arms. Hitler had ears. Blah, blah, blah. There is a huge leap between noting similarities and gassing Jews.

    Has Obama kept the campaign going, never allowing the public to cool off? Has Obama blamed Bush and blamed Bush and refused to admit being wrong or at fault? Has Obama attacked and attacked and attacked the Republicans for not rubber-stamping his agenda, for refusing to be “bi-partisan” and never conceding there may be some good in his Republican enemy? Has Obama attacked McCain, Ryan, the Supreme Court, the Republican congress members and leadership to their faces and never allowed room for their suggested alternatives? Has Obama made it clear that he is never, ever to blame for anything? Does Obama fix blame on his enemy and focus on it and keep at it and personalize it? Does Obama blame his Republican enemy for everything that goes wrong? Does Obama demonize and demagogue and target? Does Obama tell lies and big ones in particular to the American people and dare people to disagree with him? And if they do disagree, does Obama demonize, demagogue and target? Does Obama understand that if he tells his lies over and over and over again that eventually people learn to ignore them or accept them.

    So, Serenity, the blueprint Hitler used and Obama uses does not make Obama into Hitler or Hitler into Obama. Only complete fools who “think” they understand “logic” can leap to such conclusions.

    If the OSS were to profile Obama, I suspect their conclusions would be remarkably similar to the one they did on Hitler. It just may be that megalomaniacal narcissists tend to share basic characteristics.

    Of course, I understand that pointing out any similarity between Hitler and Obama violates some goofy political correctness rule laid down by new age moral relativism acolytes. I choose not to care a fig about such tripe.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 10, 2012 @ 5:32 pm - April 10, 2012

  6. heliotrope: Stretching the facts to make Obama’s tactics comparable to Hitler’s also makes your tactics and Romney’s tactics and the tactics of millions of people the world over comparable to Hitler too. As you seem to have realized, this makes the comparison completely meaningless as a comparison that fits everyone says nothing about anyone. Despite this, you still don’t seem able to admit it was a bad comparison (“never admit a fault or wrong”, who always admits fault anyway?).

    But that’s just besides the point anyway. Hitler comparisons are the most loathsome, baseless, and just plain lazy tactics resorted to only by complete hacks who lack the capacity to think of anything else to say. You are a contemptible moron who should not be taken seriously after actually trying to defend the use of such tactics. Your righteous indignation about “political correctness” and “moral relativism” just digs a bigger hole.

    This isn’t about politics, it’s about decency. Divorcing Hitler’s ‘blueprint’ from the man is just ludicrous, Hitler’s ‘blueprint’ was one of genocide on a scale the world had never seen before. The targeted destruction of an entire people. Have you so lost control of your faculties that you can’t even remember why Hitler became a historical figure? When you invoke Hitler’s name, you invoke the unforgettable events of Hitler’s Final Solution, and when you invoke anyone else’s name in conjunction, you tie that person to the same world-changing atrocities.

    That’s why it’s unacceptable. Not because of “political correctness” or “moral relativism”, because civil discourse does not involve trying to tie political figures to a complete monster.

    Comment by Serenity — April 10, 2012 @ 6:18 pm - April 10, 2012

  7. Seems everywhere I turn I bump into an establishment republican wearing a cheshire cat grin. *Visceral Shudder*

    Comment by Richard Bell — April 10, 2012 @ 7:04 pm - April 10, 2012

  8. Ooops, Senility, you shifted the argument, didn’t you.

    You want to talk about tactics. You want to talk about what Hitler authorized, ordered, conceived and then compare them to Obamacare and the Stimulus Package and solar energy and the coastal waters drilling moratorium.

    You want to show that Obama is all about saving and preserving and doing good and Hitler was all about evil and destruction and genocide and watching movies of enemies being tortured to death.

    But what you do not want to do is to take the OSS lists of characteristics of how Hitler conducted his office and see any similarities to how Obama conducts his office, because you don’t want to risk having small minds jump the tracks and reach the conclusions you reached and accuse me of planting.

    Nope. You only approve of “positive” psychological profiles. You like your megalomaniacal narcissists to be consumed with philanthropy: like Stalin and Chavez and Castro and the other great statists who aimed society toward nirvana and retired, voluntarily, when they reached Utopia.

    Hitler mucks up the works for the Saul Alinsky model of ethical and moral relativism. He leaves a bad taste. Isn’t it a shame that the OSS profile of him fits Obama like a glove?

    Or did you take the profile point by point and disprove it? Maybe I missed that as I read the invective you spewed when you blew your gasket.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 10, 2012 @ 8:02 pm - April 10, 2012

  9. Porosity,

    Saul Alinsky was the master of Obama’s mind and the architect of his purpose. Augment Frank Davis with Alinsky and you uncover the key steps to Obama-style community organizing. First, you dispense with the common ethic and morality, because it is a competing organizing system. Then you create your own ethical and moral relativism. Here is Alinsky (and, through him, Obama):

    The judgement of the ethics of means is dependent upon the political position of those sitting in judgement.

    In war, the end justifies almost any means.

    The judgement of the ethics of means must be made in the context of the times in which the action occurred and not from any other chronological vantage point.

    Concern with ethics increases with the number of means available.
    The less important the end, the more one engage in ethical evaluations about means.

    The morality of a means depends upon whether the means is being employed at a time of imminent defeat or imminent victory.
    Any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition as being unethical.

    You do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments.

    Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.
    Never go outside the experience of your people.

    Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy.

    Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules.

    Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.

    A good tactic is one that your people enjoy.

    A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.

    Keep the pressure on.

    The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

    The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

    If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counter side.

    The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.

    Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

    And here is a dash of Edward Bernays as a finishing touch:

    Propaganda is the executive arm of the invisible government.

    You may find it unfair, but Obama only has the Alinsky game plan to run on and he is now fully exposed. He can’t run on his record. He has to keep dragging enemies out of dark and blaming them. He has to talk his trash to his minions, because the independents and thinking people have got his number.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 10, 2012 @ 8:32 pm - April 10, 2012

  10. Given that Amy’s all for killing a baby that’s inconvenient, I find her attempt to Godwin the thread amusing.

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 10, 2012 @ 8:57 pm - April 10, 2012

  11. The OSS profile of Hitler was a dispassionate study of how he addressed and conducted himself in the political arena. Even dictators have to play politics. The profile was not a psychological study. It was a vague form of market research. It was an outline of how the man conducted business.

    From the standpoint of a person who cleaves to the representative democracy form of government, there is nothing attractive in the profile.

    Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, the American Bund, Father Coughlin and others were admirers of Hitler’s use of power in the years before WWII. Upton Sinclair wrote Dragon’s Teeth about Hitler’s rise to power and the fawning fellow socialist won the 1943 Pulitzer Prize for the book. (There is rarely any mention of the book now, because it does not fit the liberal agenda in the way The Jungle gets liberal hearts all aflutter.)

    So, we have come full circle. The Communist lovers from the 30′s and today still hate Hitler for his treachery in turning on Stalin. They know in their heart of hearts that if the roles had been reversed, the great and wonderful Stalin would never have stabbed Hitler in the back. Such is the fantasy world of the socialist/communist/statists. They won’t even bring themselves to condemn Pol Pot. There is only one evil socialist and that is Hitler. Stalin killed as many Jews as Hitler and his pograms were as systematic and deadly as Hitler’s gas chambers. But even the Jews tread lightly on the Russian holocaust. Germany was totally defeated, occupied and forced to reject itself. So, there is no political price to pay in hating Hitler. Much like the horrors committed by the Japanese military on civilians and POW’s, the Russians still get a pass in the screwy minds of the liberal world. Moral relativism at its most vivid.

    Obama’s profile of how he conducts his affairs is the duplicate of the profile the OSS drew up on Hitler.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 10, 2012 @ 10:05 pm - April 10, 2012

  12. But that’s just besides the point anyway. Hitler comparisons are the most loathsome, baseless, and just plain lazy tactics resorted to only by complete hacks who lack the capacity to think of anything else to say. You are a contemptible moron who should not be taken seriously after actually trying to defend the use of such tactics. Your righteous indignation about “political correctness” and “moral relativism” just digs a bigger hole.

    This isn’t about politics, it’s about decency. Divorcing Hitler’s ‘blueprint’ from the man is just ludicrous, Hitler’s ‘blueprint’ was one of genocide on a scale the world had never seen before. The targeted destruction of an entire people. Have you so lost control of your faculties that you can’t even remember why Hitler became a historical figure? When you invoke Hitler’s name, you invoke the unforgettable events of Hitler’s Final Solution, and when you invoke anyone else’s name in conjunction, you tie that person to the same world-changing atrocities.

    That’s why it’s unacceptable. Not because of “political correctness” or “moral relativism”, because civil discourse does not involve trying to tie political figures to a complete monster.

    Comment by Serenity — April 10, 2012 @ 6:18 pm – April 10, 2012

    And they are fully endorsed, supported, and used by Pomposity and Pomposity’s beloved “progressive” movement.

    Repeatedly.

    With the full endorsement and support of Barack Obama and the Barack Obama Party.

    So that means that Pomposity and her fellow Obama Party and “progressive” supporters are “complete hacks” and “contemptible morons” who “have lost control of their faculties”, “lack the capacity to think of anything else to say” and “should not be taken seriously”, and are acting in an “indecent” and “uncivil” fashion.

    Now watch how fast Pomposity flip-flops and starts finding the transcendent wisdom in her screaming brat Obama and his Party calling other people Nazis and comparing them to Hitler.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 10, 2012 @ 10:24 pm - April 10, 2012

  13. heliotrope: Three posts in my absence? Feel the need to try and justify something rather than just admit you screwed up?

    You want to show that Obama is all about saving and preserving and doing good and Hitler was all about evil and destruction and genocide and watching movies of enemies being tortured to death.

    I want to show that Barack Obama is the mainstream leader of a modern liberal democracy while Adolf Hitler was a genocidal maniac and the most reviled man in all of history. In other words, I want to show you what any sane man does not need to be shown.

    But what you do not want to do is to take the OSS lists of characteristics of how Hitler conducted his office and see any similarities to how Obama conducts his office, because you don’t want to risk having small minds jump the tracks and reach the conclusions you reached and accuse me of planting.

    Small minds to jump the tracks? To what conclusion? That Obamacare and the stimulus package actually are Nazi-style proposals? You don’t even deny any of the charges, you just try to hide behind a shield of outrage and misdirection while still claiming that Barack Obama’s policies are in any way comparable to what happened in 1930s Germany.

    Everything else in this entire thread is the same, just you digging even deeper, going on a Glenn Beck-style rant trying ever more desperately to try and tie together Obama and Hitler, progressivism and Nazism, all the while shouting down anyone who would suggest you were doing anything so uncouth as comparing Obama to Hitler or progressives to Nazis. Ridiculous! How dare we!

    It is also fantastically ironic that while trying to paint Barack Obama as a fascist, it doesn’t even come to mind for you to mention the NDAA, which quietly “affirms” the presidential authority for indefinite detentions. You’re so focused on the ‘big prizes’ of cutting domestic spending and entitlement reform that you’re blind to everything else going on.

    If America ever devolves to a fascist state, it will be through the great and powerful military that cannot be criticised and cannot have its funding cut no matter what.

    Or did you take the profile point by point and disprove it?

    I am not going to waste my time on a point by point refutation of the garbage you posted. Ask someone else.

    The_Livewire:

    Given that Amy’s all for killing a baby that’s inconvenient, I find her attempt to Godwin the thread amusing.

    It is an amusing ‘me too’. Run along now.

    North Dallas Thirty: “she”? Not “it”? Has your prescription changed recently?

    Comment by Serenity — April 11, 2012 @ 12:17 am - April 11, 2012

  14. Well, if Romney becomes the presidential candidate during the convention, who ya gonna support?

    Still not sure why it’s a big surprise that Romney is now the one left standing, especially after the 200 debates the public has endured. Romney’s said a few choice dumb things (“corporations are people”), but the rest of the field, without question, said some really stupid, outrageous stuff. Comes down to – who will the majority of conservatives vote for when it comes down to someone who is electable as president? Romney is the only one who’s come even close to that requirement.

    Comment by Kevin — April 11, 2012 @ 12:22 am - April 11, 2012

  15. (“never admit a fault or wrong”, who always admits fault anyway?).

    Guess you missed the part where the liberals bitched incessantly because Bush wouldn’t/didn’t. And then when he did, they bitched incessantly about that. But then I suppose you’re using the double standard.

    BTW, Government Motors + Chevy Volt = Volkswagen “People’s Car”.

    Comment by TGC — April 11, 2012 @ 1:09 am - April 11, 2012

  16. Romney’s said a few choice dumb things (“corporations are people”),

    Still trying to figure out how they’re not.

    cor·po·ra·tion   [kawr-puh-rey-shuhn]
    noun
    1.
    an association of individuals, created by law or under authority of law, having a continuous existence independent of the existences of its members, and powers and liabilities distinct from those of its members. See also municipal corporation, public corporation.
    2.
    ( initial capital letter ) the group of principal officials of a borough or other municipal division in England.
    3.
    any group of persons united or regarded as united in one body.

    SOB! So they are people after all.

    Comment by TGC — April 11, 2012 @ 1:13 am - April 11, 2012

  17. “I’ll believe unions are people when Texas executes one.”

    Comment by Richard Bell — April 11, 2012 @ 4:32 am - April 11, 2012

  18. Poor put upon Amy, getting picked on. Run home to mommy and tell her the mean Yanks are telling truths about her. Let’s not forget, Amy’s all about killing inconvienent children.

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 11, 2012 @ 7:51 am - April 11, 2012

  19. Sorry, Solemnity, I was just piling on.

    Obama’s propaganda style fits the OSS study of the Hitler propaganda style like a glove. As Al Gore would say, that is an inconvenient truth.

    So, you have to throw a tantrum to connect Obama with anything Hitler is indecent. Well, appeasement is indecent. Not paying attention to how Hitler attained and kept his power is indecent. To ignore the lessons of history is indecent. To assume that one small comparison equates to the “final solution” is indecent.

    You can’t refute the comparison between the Obama propaganda style and the OSS profile of the Hitler style, because then you would lose your piety point. So, you have to stick to your out rage and declare victory via the special rule embedded in Godwin’s Law for Losers.

    Pity.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 11, 2012 @ 9:43 am - April 11, 2012

  20. And so the onslaught begins; MSNBC on Tuesday began to investigate the Mormon faith of Mitt Romney and “its particular attitudes towards race.” (from news busters)

    Comment by Richard Bell — April 11, 2012 @ 9:58 am - April 11, 2012

  21. vapidity should be reminded that, at the time, Hitler was NOT out of the mainstream. For “progressives” and their fellow travelers, anyway.

    Comment by Bastiat Fan — April 11, 2012 @ 12:16 pm - April 11, 2012

  22. Not paying attention to how Hitler attained and kept his power is indecent.

    Taking complete control of the media? Blaming all of society’s ills on a single ethnic group? Attacking his own government building and blaming that on the same ethnic group? Establishing a miltary-run government and abolishing elections?

    Do you seriously think Obama’s going start China-style censorship lists for the media, have Mitt Romney put in prison, or just straight-up cancel the next election? Because that’s how Hitler gained and kept power.

    To ignore the lessons of history is indecent.

    You have learned one thing from history, and only one thing: How to use history to smear political opponents by repeating blatant lies over and over.

    Also Bruce and Daniel, I have pointed out heliotrope’s disgusting rant on your blog and asked you what the hell was going on. I am taking your silence as tacit endorsement of everything he has said above and repudiation of your previous policy of civility in debates.

    Comment by Serenity — April 11, 2012 @ 8:53 pm - April 11, 2012

  23. Nowhere, Serenity, have I pushed the point past how the Obama style of propaganda matches the OSS profile of the Hitler style of propaganda. You refuse to address the profile and insist on dragging the comparison into the gutter of what Hitler did using this propaganda style.

    Sorry, but the facts about Hitler are not off limits. It is not “indecent” to take note that the Alinsky guide, the OSS profile on Hitler’s propaganda style, and Obama’s methods form a remarkable confluence with each.

    Apparently, you have asked for me to be censored. Fine by me. I am a guest on this site and I do not wish to intrude on the good graces of the hosts.

    Congratulations. I will now consider myself censored by Serenity, because of some out of hand sensitivity that damages her psyche. While I leave this thread wearing Serenity Duct Tape and forbidden to speak on the topic further, I assure you that I will return on other threads with no duct tape.

    You will just have to keep demanding that I be silenced. So much for dispassionate diversity and the free exchange of ideas. Out of curiosity, did I manage to get near the realm of hate speech?

    Comment by heliotrope — April 11, 2012 @ 10:52 pm - April 11, 2012

  24. Nowhere, Serenity, have I pushed the point past how the Obama style of propaganda matches the OSS profile of the Hitler style of propaganda.

    You’ve clearly watched a lot of Fox News. Spend all day JAQing off then when called out on the points you’re obvious trying to push it’s all “What? I didn’t compare Obama to Hitler, how dare you! Point out where I explicitly compared Obama to Hitler!” knowing that you made no explicit comparisons, you just made enough insinuations that everyone knows what you’re getting at without stepping over the line into outright stating it.

    But as I said before, it changes nothing. Even if no one else is able or willing, I see right through your facade, and what you’re hiding turns my stomach.

    Apparently, you have asked for me to be censored. Fine by me. I am a guest on this site and I do not wish to intrude on the good graces of the hosts.

    No, don’t stop, there’s no point. It was mostly to confirm what I already knew. That you are one of the semi-official ‘enforcers’, who maintain the right-wing orthodoxy around here, and are as such exempt from civility rules that would prevent you from working effectively. So you’re never getting censored, no matter how much you push the “Obama is like Hitler and will turn the United States into a fascist dictatorship if re-elected” angle. Bruce and Daniel would never say or even imply such a thing, but the maintaining of such a narrative in the comments section is too useful for them to do anything about.

    Comment by Serenity — April 11, 2012 @ 11:38 pm - April 11, 2012

  25. Oh you hilarious little creature.

    All your screaming about what Heliotrope allegedly said, which in fact if he had done so, would merely have been repeating word for word what you, Barack Obama, and your entire “progressive” movement were saying about Bush.

    And to make it even more deliciously ironic, you started your rant about Obama and Hitler on the same day Obama gushingly endorsed his very own Kristallnacht-maker and Jew-killing pusher.

    Even more hilariously, we have Obama and his supporters screaming for government control of the media — and using a Nazi comparison to boot.

    Imprisoning people for political dissent by accusing them of crimes they didn’t commit? Fully endorsed and supported by you, your Barack Obama Party, and “progressives”.

    Not to mention the umpteen “indecent” and “uncivil” Nazi comparisons made by you, your Obama, and your Obama Party that were pointed out to you previously.

    The point Heliotrope was making that you are incapable of grasping, Pomposity, is that Hitler’s ascent took place, not by putting fascist ideas into peoples’ heads, but by skillfully manipulating and focusing the fascist impulses already present in “progressivism”, socialism, and all the other -isms that are merely a cloak for the desire of people like yourself to carry out government-backed revenge against those who you feel have wronged you.

    You are not capable of acknowledging that because you would have to accept your own fascist impulses. Obama did not make you this way; he, like Hitler, is simply very good at playing on the wrath, greed, lust, sloth, gluttony, pride, and envy that drive your every action and to which decades of liberal and moral-free parenting and education have left you enslaved.

    This is why you are doomed to repeat the mistakes your National Socialist forbears made. But unfortunately for you, you won’t have nearly the free rein they were given to do it.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — April 12, 2012 @ 1:36 am - April 12, 2012

  26. North Dallas Thirty: Derp.

    Comment by Serenity — April 12, 2012 @ 1:54 am - April 12, 2012

  27. Given Amy’s love of nationalized health care, and killing ‘inconvient children’ I’m surprised she’s not crowing her comparisons to a short Austrian paper hanger.

    Comment by The Livewire — April 12, 2012 @ 7:57 am - April 12, 2012

  28. I stand convicted of watching a fair amount of Fox News. Yes, I do.

    The JAQing Off is entirely new to me and I am not particularly amused by it. It is a little trite and fairly plebeian. In the more enlightened world, it is called “begging the question.” But I am delighted to be introduced to the neopseudosophisticated shopping mart for half-baked ideas and liberal talking points. I will study the techniques used to “inform” the small minds. Thank you.

    My facade? I am a social conservative, a fiscal conservative and a worshipper of the Constitution as well as a Christian who believes in God and the redemption of sin through the body of Christ. Beside that, I am willing to take on the liberal orthodoxy. What epiphany did you encounter in uncovering my “facade” other than insisting that I argue on your terms, rather than the ones I stated?

    You do not want me censored? Really? Why cry to Dan and Bruce about my “incivility” then? Oh, I see. You have made them part of the cabal by allowing me to do the “dirty work” they are too gentlemanly to do. Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.

    Face it, Serenity, you are not up to fighting for Obama on the same terms Obama uses to denigrate his foes. All of a sudden, in the style of the Gabrielle Giffords rally, you ride in demanding your personal definition of civility. In the style of “if I had a son, he would look like Trayvon” you make the issue personal while pimping an opinion and claiming neutrality. Gee, one might say your are hellbent on begging the question.

    I promised to be Serenity Duct Taped on this thread in regard to what got you riled up. I said I would leave the thread. But your reply is so ridiculous and hollow, that I decided to come back with the Serenity Duct Tape in place.

    What is it about FoxNews and Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and the whole wildly popular alternative to liberal media that gets so deep into your craw?

    Do they lie? Prove it. The alternative to liberal media exposes the lies and deceits of the alternative media. And the liberals constantly battle to have them silenced. It would seem that the liberal media would be concentrating of exposing the lies of the alternative media in order to drive them to MSNBC and Current TV status in the basement of audience.

    Out of curiosity, how close did I get to hate speech? (I am still in search of a working definition of what is in the mind of the beholder of hate speech. If I am to be ruled by those minds, I should at least have some markers to guide me.)

    Comment by heliotrope — April 12, 2012 @ 9:17 am - April 12, 2012

  29. It’s hilarious to watch cretins like A**holity throw their weight around, and when anyone arrives and throws it back in equal measure we get the usual leftist horses**t about ‘civility’, along with the veiled (“…the maintaining of such a narrative in the comments section is too useful for them to do anything about.”) calls for censorship.
    3 rules leftist twats like Amy should heed:

    1) If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen
    2) Never bring a knife to a gunfight
    3) Don’t start something if you can’t finish it (or someone else is liable to finish it for you)

    You can resume your pissing and moaning now.

    Comment by Jman1961 — April 12, 2012 @ 4:19 pm - April 12, 2012

  30. heliotrope: Oh you poor oppressed little man. Since I’m now obviously coming down with some sort of winter bug, I’ll leave this debate as it is now. These debates really do impact on my health it seems.

    Comment by Serenity — April 12, 2012 @ 5:41 pm - April 12, 2012

  31. I am a man and I am short, but a bit more portly than I was in my insurance chart perfect prime. (But, I suspect your “little man” reference was more along the line of incapable, petty, parochial, niggling, myopic, piffling, stunted, provincial, bigoted, vulgar, narrow-minded, ineffectual, etc.) Oppressed, I am not. That would mean I have succumbed to oppression. Clearly, I combat oppression. That is what irritates you most about me.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 12, 2012 @ 6:58 pm - April 12, 2012

  32. These debates really do impact on my health it seems.

    Wow, so you can actually be allergic to facts!

    Comment by The_Livewire — April 12, 2012 @ 7:12 pm - April 12, 2012

  33. Livewire,

    Sophomoric is not so health impacted that she has been unable to spring back in full odor and florescent tone at “Older now, but Obama is still running against the W” which is the second thread above.

    The “vapors” can be selective, you know.

    Suppository looked the situation over and decided to leave p*ssed off rather than continue to be p*ssed on and unable to avoid the douching.

    Poor thing. She came to censor and establish her righteous rage. She slinked away with an onset of sudden irritable vowel syndrome.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 12, 2012 @ 8:13 pm - April 12, 2012

  34. IVW! Good one! Hey, wait a minute……..is that contagious?

    Comment by Jman1961 — April 12, 2012 @ 8:29 pm - April 12, 2012

  35. It couldn’t stand up to the shitstorm it concocted, and now shows it’s true character by lying about “some sort of ‘winter bug’”.
    Like every other coward on the left.

    Comment by Jman1961 — April 12, 2012 @ 8:33 pm - April 12, 2012

  36. Sophomoric is not so health impacted that she has been unable to spring back in full odor and florescent tone at “Older now, but Obama is still running against the W” which is the second thread above.

    The “vapors” can be selective, you know.

    Yes, they can. I began to feel ill not long after my first post in this thread, now I’ve got a headache, sore throat, and my appetite’s gone.

    It couldn’t stand up to the shitstorm it concocted, and now shows it’s true character by lying about “some sort of ‘winter bug’”.
    Like every other coward on the left.

    Just to see if the bloggers-in-chief are paying any attention: Fuck you.

    I feel like crap and the least I need it to be accused of lying about it. Why the hell would I even lie? I’ve made it clear that ‘not having fun any more’ is reason enough for me to leave a debate, I’ve no god damn reason to lie.

    Comment by Serenity — April 12, 2012 @ 9:33 pm - April 12, 2012

  37. Jman 1961,

    Is it contagious? Naw. It’s genetic with libs.

    Comment by heliotrope — April 12, 2012 @ 9:34 pm - April 12, 2012

  38. For the commenter at #36: Thanks a bunch . . . . please refer to item 3 at comment #29 for further guidance.
    Seems like your plan to come here to agitate/aggravate people has been turned against you, and (allegedly) you’re sick over it.
    I’ve read this blog for a few years now, and this is what you do always: stir the pot, then cry and scream when someone throws your [spurious charges] and sarcasm back in your ugly kisser.

    [Edited]

    Comment by Jman1961 — April 13, 2012 @ 3:04 am - April 13, 2012

  39. For Miss Manners at #36: thanks so much and F**k You!
    Please see items 1 and 3 at #29 for further guidance.

    Comment by Jman1961 — April 13, 2012 @ 3:07 am - April 13, 2012

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