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Tolerance to certain liberals

Posted by B. Daniel Blatt at 12:30 pm - May 18, 2012.
Filed under: Liberal Hypocrisy,Liberal Intolerance

They’ll tolerate you as long as you don’t deviate from their orthodoxy.

–James Taranto, Best of the Web, May 17, 2012



  1. And you still have my poet laureate nomination, declined or other wise

    I’m flattered. I accept!

    I prefer real life people to avoid the HT and pick any other designation of his/her choice

    HUA, Heliotrope!

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 7:00 pm - May 22, 2012

  2. I change kitty litter and scrub toilets, but I don’t do hems.

    I don’t do hems, either. But I’ll wash the dishes.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 7:02 pm - May 22, 2012

  3. If your argument is sound enough, it isn’t necessary to be anything less than civil. We’ve come a long way from being barbarians. But, if you want to give yourself license to be anything less than civil, your conduct speaks for itself. If you believe in what you stand by, it should speak for itself. Or, if you don’t care to take responsibility for your conduct, that also says volumes.

    What I would really love to see is every one of us at GP placed in the same room and then watch what happens. It would be a helluva more interesting and be ten times more telling.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — May 22, 2012 @ 7:37 pm - May 22, 2012

  4. And, yes, I’ve said the same things in the past on ultra-liberal site Queerty, of which I don’t visit anymore. Thank God.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — May 22, 2012 @ 7:38 pm - May 22, 2012

  5. <blockquote"We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception.”
    – Herbert Muschamp

    More hectoring about ‘manners’.
    The MRS and Stupidity get at least as much, and often much more civility than they afford others.
    If this ‘lack of civility’ is what gets your knickers in a twist, it’s a wonder you’ve survived this long in the cold, cruel world.
    It’s a minor issue, at best. And it’s another of the blunt instruments that the LEFT uses to silence their ideological opponents.
    And that ain’t gonna work with me.
    (Please take note that I have not used so much as one expletive in any of my posts today; a practice which you deem ‘unacceptable’).
    Am I now allowed to claim that I am something greater than ‘1/10th of a human being’ (as you put it ‘upthread’)?

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 8:04 pm - May 22, 2012

  6. … i meant the part about civility. I wouldn’t care to share a room with most people who visit Queerty. Never have.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — May 22, 2012 @ 8:05 pm - May 22, 2012

  7. Vince:

    Yes. I understand that. We could be in the same room and get along just fine, I think.
    Is civility important? YES
    Is it more important than integrity? NO
    Is is more important than trustworthiness? NO
    Is it more important than dependability? NO
    Is it more important than honesty? NO
    Is it more important than truthfulness? NO, NO, NO
    Let’s keep this in a little better perspective.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 8:15 pm - May 22, 2012

  8. The definition of hectoring is to bully someone with words. I expressed an opinion: one’s argument stands for itself. No bullying there. How does an argument not stand for itself and how do personal attacks improve/change the quality of it? Must a person who tempers their opinions with facts, data, and logic be considered equally with someone else who speaks in generalizations and personalizes the debate? The people I ultimately want on my team are the former, not the latter. GP policy is that “each individual commenter is also responsible for maintaining the civil discourse at GayPatriot.” Yet, why isn’t there a more recruitment vibe here? If GP’s political beliefs are the way to go, then why not sell them to a bigger audience?

    I certainly am not an innocent. As ILC and ND30 will tell you, I made some poor choices in a post earlier this month, as well as at the beginning of March, as well as in January–all different mistakes I hope to not make again. I think we all can do better, on the left and the right. And we will.

    I read your list of things that take a higher priority than civility. Unfortunately, a lot of those qualities are subjective. Politics is a nasty game and I think we’d all be a lot better off not succumbing to its ills. If we’d call each other out more on the left and the right, rather than rushing to sink to their level, I theorize that it might elevate the level of debate here. I originally came to GP to learn another perspective. And I quickly lost that frame-of-mind and fell prey to the more malicious behavior. I’m hoping to get back to that. No, I haven’t been very consistent, one of the main components of integrity. But, before two years ago, I had never engaged in online political debates either. And, I’m not exactly a quick learner.

    Helio, for example, has integrity, from my experience, despite how rude I’ve been to him in the past. And, while I unfortunately haven’t learned much from GP in terms of the best and necessary economical roads to take, as I had hoped, I have aspired to have more integrity. I think we all could to stand to aspire to have characteristics in people we disagree with. It reminds me of the 60 Minutes Meryl Streep interview with her discussing playing Margaret Thatcher. She said we could discuss our policy differences, but where would that get us? Rather, she focused on what she had in common, and the Hollywood liberal learned she was more like The Iron Lady than she reckoned for.

    I’m thinking out loud, here, obviously. And, if that’s a crime, I’m sure there is someone here who will point it out.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — May 22, 2012 @ 8:50 pm - May 22, 2012

  9. I’m thinking out loud, here, obviously. And, if that’s a crime….

    Vince, I’m all played out on this topic.
    You’ll notice that my list includes ‘civility’ as well, but if all thses qualities are subjective, as you stated, then I have both a different definition of the quality, and a different priority for it’s use than you do. That’s all there is to say on that.
    I’m going to guess that you haven’t read anywhere near all of the posts in this thread, and certainly not all of mine. I posted many where I laid out cogent arguments, as did many others, but you seem to be ‘stuck’ on the ones that you deem to be ‘uncivil’.
    Ok, then. I have 2 suggestions:

    1 – Go back and read mine @183, if you want to. I explain it in more detail there
    2 – Consider the quote I posted @205, and here it is again:

    “We do not embrace reason at the expense of emotion. We embrace it at the expense of self-deception.”
    – Herbert Muschamp

    Reason and emotion aren’t mutually exclusive (if it were, we’d have a lot more Mr. Spock’s around), though I think it’s better for ‘reason’ to lead emotion. I think your dilemma might come from doing the reverse: your emotion leads your reason. It’s just an idea.
    If you have the time, let me know what you think.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 9:11 pm - May 22, 2012

    It’s back to NO HTML if I keep this up!

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 9:12 pm - May 22, 2012

  11. Oh, that Muschamp quote is horrible. Reason trumps emotion. What this world needs is more Spocks.

    There was a thread in the last couple months, where I was taken to task for being uncivil. And, I was. My argument was sound (though the other arguer begged to differ), but I chose the wrong place and time, and was called out for it. Rather than say my piece and leave, I emotionally believed that reason would prevail. Had I been led by reason, I would have just walked way and took my argument with me and saved it for a later date (though, it’s hard to imagine another direct opportunity coming up).

    As far as what you asked me to read, this is my take. What I don’t get is Bastiat Fan’s derogatory use of the term “short bus.” One of my best friends works in special ed and has a brother with Downs. If she were posting on here, she would rip BF a new a–hole, and she is the sweetest, kindest, most giving person you’ll ever meet. I often watch her brother during visitis and the “short bus” picks him up and drops him off three times/week. Now, BF says he has worked with the mentally-challenged and I have to take him at his word. Perhaps, he is just burnt out on his job and letting off steam and I shouldn’t get my whities in a bunch because he’s so viciously careless with that term. But, I do. Because when he uses it, I think about my best friend and her brother and I get pissed off. BF can knock Obama all he wants by incorporating whatever stupid and uncreative names he wants into his full name, and I guess I just have to let it go.

    Serenity comes here with the full agenda of getting under people’s skin. She makes no secret of it. People refer to her as Pomposity and Stupidity (which I think are kind of endearing; and, if I were to guess, I would say she feels the same way) and it makes me laugh. Helio acknowledged the reciprocal nature of the relationship: Serenity doesn’t care if the people here tolerate her. In fact, she thrives on their negative energy. So, yeah, Helio mirrors it back. I get that.

    Now, Helio talks about reflexive arguing. There is someone else who “tries” to engage in that behavior and does so much, much, much less successfully. In fact, he’s not even doing it, but he purports too. Additionally, he will call people very nasty names. But, frankly, I haven’t seen it in a while and, as Martha Stewart used to say, “that’s a good thing.”

    Whatever the case, I still believe saner minds prevail. And perhaps that’s idealistic of me and that thinking has no place here. But, I’m stubborn.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — May 22, 2012 @ 9:38 pm - May 22, 2012

  12. Vince,

    Stay with it. And don’t let the short bus get you down.

    A whole lot of threads ago, I encouraged to accept more credit for your ability to sort things out, and you clearly have done that.

    It is never about winning so much as it is about standing up for your belief system.

    Comment by heliotrope — May 22, 2012 @ 9:52 pm - May 22, 2012

  13. Vince:

    Like your opening line.
    Yeah, that Muschamp was a goofball. LOL!

    What I don’t get is Bastiat Fan’s derogatory use of the term “short bus.”

    Because you’re reading it with emotion first. He’s applying it to the current occupant of the Oval Office. He’s not smearing all handicapped people, and certainly not your best friend’s brother, who he almost certainly doesn’t know. And he can be as considerate and sensitive to mentally-challenged people and NOT be ‘burned out’ and still be referring ONLY to the President when he uses the term.
    I’ve read his comments where he uses it and that’s all I’ve gotten from it.
    And because you like your friend, and you care about her brother, both really nice things to do, your emotion clouds you’re reason.
    try leading with your reason when you see that term, or try blowing right past it. or, as you said yourself: …”let it go”.
    That’s all.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 10:10 pm - May 22, 2012

  14. Whatever the case, I still believe saner minds prevail. And perhaps that’s idealistic of me and that thinking has no place here.

    It most certainly has a place here, and anywhere else that good, honest people want to share ideas, sort out differences, and solve problems.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 10:15 pm - May 22, 2012

  15. People refer to her as Pomposity and Stupidity (which I think are kind of endearing; and, if I were to guess, I would say she feels the same way) and it makes me laugh.

    Actually, no. The whole concept makes me skin crawl, which is why I refuse to do it to anyone else. I guess it’s the price I pay to engage in my own style of debate, I have to (per my definition 210 posts ago) tolerate it.

    Comment by Serenity — May 22, 2012 @ 10:24 pm - May 22, 2012

  16. Serenity, I am sorry for misinterpreting those names for you and thanks for bringing it up. I will keep that in mind the next time I see it. Thank you for also for reminding me that you don’t engage in the behavior of name-calling. None of that I’ve ever seen away.

    Thank you Jman1961 and Helio for your comments.

    While I have hit a very lucid high point here at GP, you all know my behavior to be very inconsistent, which it is. So, I hope the next time I slip, which I will, it won’t be as low as most other times. Have a great night.

    Comment by Cinesnatch — May 22, 2012 @ 10:42 pm - May 22, 2012

  17. Goodnight, Vince!

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 22, 2012 @ 10:45 pm - May 22, 2012

  18. The whole concept makes me skin craw

    Wow, Pomposity. You come here OPENLY ANNOUNCING that you have no respect for the concept of rights and freedoms enshrined by the Framers of the U.S. Constitution, and NO other intent than to amuse yourself by throwing stink bombs here and antagonizing people. And your skin crawls? Seriously? You’re not kidding us? I mean: it really doesn’t occur to you that it’s other people whose skin should crawl, regarding you?

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 23, 2012 @ 1:25 am - May 23, 2012

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