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Scandal news

All via HotAir.

UPDATE: There seems to be controversy over Pfeiffer’s remark on the IRS scandal, “The law is irrelevant.” Here is his full quote, for context:

“I can’t speak to the law here. The law is irrelevant. The activity was outrageous and inexcusable, and it was stopped and it needs to be fixed so we ensure it never happens again.”

Superficially, Pfeiffer said: The IRS activity was outrageous, regardless of whether it was illegal. Which sounds like taking the high road.

But Washington-speak is notoriously indirect. Pfeiffer may have been saying: The administration/DOJ is giving NO focus to the question of legality, as we intend to have no prosecutions.

To make my view clear: On current information, there should be prosecutions. If the Obama administration won’t send malefactors to court, then the Obama administration isn’t serious about repairing the scandal’s profound moral damage. As Gabe at Ace points out, “…the most obvious of crimes related to the IRS scandal [is] the public release of confidential information, something punishable by up to a year’s jail time.”

UPDATE: Per ABC, Pfeiffer later tweeted “Before folks quoting me out of context get too far ahead of themselves, of course the law matters, IRS conduct is wrong even if legal.”

Again, note Pfeiffer’s posture. While expressing outrage over what the IRS did, he carefully plants the suggestion that it might have been legal – which would mean that no prosecutions are needed. Sorry Mr. Pfeiffer, I don’t think so.

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73 Comments

  1. Among the three bad events for Obama, the AP may turn out to be the most costly to his Administration. The AP CEO took to the air today in a no nonsence mood. When you have a liberal media pissing on a liberal President it could get real nasty. The CEO would not rule out a lawsuit.

    Comment by Tony — May 19, 2013 @ 8:45 pm - May 19, 2013

  2. The Law is irrelevant? Either we are a Nation of Laws, or not.

    Are we Germany circa-May 1933?

    The parallels between Feb-2013 through now—and Feb-1933 through May-1933—are frightening.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — May 19, 2013 @ 9:40 pm - May 19, 2013

  3. Does Obama look like a man who is outraged over this abuse of power on his behalf by bureaucrats in the employ of his Government.

    Comment by V the K — May 19, 2013 @ 9:49 pm - May 19, 2013

  4. Obama & Co. are Bart Simpson.

    Picture that Bart does something outrageous, and gets caught. Thinking fast, he says “Yes that was outrageous! And I’m putting a stop to it! From now on, it’s against my policy! So we’re good, right? My new policy stops it. No need to get the law involved. The law is irrelevant, since I am so deeply outraged as you are, and don’t quote me out of context, man!”

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 19, 2013 @ 10:21 pm - May 19, 2013

  5. Why should we trust this Government to fairly and responsibly run background checks on gun owners? Why should we trust this Government to enforce any new immigration laws when they refuse to enforce the current ones? How can we trust this corrupt, politicized IRS with the personal health data they will control under ObamaCare?

    Any Obama defenders care to field those?

    Comment by V the K — May 19, 2013 @ 10:36 pm - May 19, 2013

  6. “Are we Germany circa-May 1933?”
    Good gracious. Over time top much?
    ILC
    He said quite clearly “that’s up to the Justice dept”
    And he says quite clearly that its a terrible thing and he quite clearly said the opposite of “No need to get the law involved.” He merely said its not up to him…
    So no need for you to lie about what he said. – Making stuff up is not taking out of context, its lying.

    V-
    – You should absolutely not trust the government to do anything. What you should do is ensure that everything is done in an open and transparent manner so there can be checks. The IRS was correct when processing these applications. They were correct to be concerned about the huge surge of a new type of applications. They were correct to ensure that folks looking for the privilege to get tax-free benefits were legit. What they were not correct is the targeting of Conservative Groups. Just like when the IRS went after liberal churches during the Bush Admin, or when the IRS went after environmental NGO’s at the behest of conservative groups during the Bush Admin. The IRS in these cases was correct to be looking at these groups but incorrect in targeting liberal groups only.

    The same thing that stopped the bureaucrats in those cases is the same thing that stopped the bureaucrats in this case.
    Sunlight. Nothing stops abuses of power like sunlight.

    So when it comes to Guns, immigration and health care as long as its done with oversight, there should be no issue. Will mistakes happen? Yes. Will a bureaucrat go to far? For Sure. Will sometimes top officials direct abuses of power? You bet. But in all cases, as long as there people watching the government and oversight, it will be limited and it will be short.
    This is the power of sunlight and why the reaction of the Obama admin is so encouraging. They are not trying to hide behind the law, or arcane bureaucratic minutia. They saying its wrong and needs to stop and we will make sure it does.

    Comment by mike — May 19, 2013 @ 11:24 pm - May 19, 2013

  7. So, Obama’s reliable boot-licker is buying into the claim that there was an overwhelming surge of applications that swamped the IRS… which has been proven a lie… claims “Bush did it” which is not only a tiresome leftist excuse, but one for which there is no documentation… and is taking the line that it is just a coincidence that the actions of the IRS aligned perfectly with the goals of the Obama Campaign.

    He claims that “sunlight” has brought accountability for these scandals, and yet the two people in charge, Lois Lerner and Sara Hall Ingram, have not only not been held accountable, they have been promoted and given bonuses.

    And on the basis of these lies and excuses, says, “Yes, I trust the Government.” Mainly because, it’s being used to persecute people he doesn’t like anyway.

    Comment by V the K — May 19, 2013 @ 11:38 pm - May 19, 2013

  8. Pfeiffer was trying to find a way to lawyerly speak, without saying much of import, but at the same time, control the direction of the topic to the administration’s liking.

    And by saying “the law is irrelevant” he basically freudian slipped his way into saying what he really thinks: I will get away with this, because Obama’s awesome. And YOU’RE irrelevant.

    Comment by Jason B — May 19, 2013 @ 11:42 pm - May 19, 2013

  9. “The law is irrelevant” might well be the motto of the Obama regime.

    Comment by V the K — May 19, 2013 @ 11:45 pm - May 19, 2013

  10. Oh, and that spin that low-level bureaucrats decided on their own to target Tea-Party and conservative groups? Pure horsesh-t.

    “We people on the local level are doing what we are supposed to do. . . . That’s why there are so many people here who are flustered. Everything comes from the top. We don’t have any authority to make those decisions without someone signing off on them. There has to be a directive.

    But lower-case leftists are happy with the situation because people they don’t like are being persecuted.

    Comment by V the K — May 19, 2013 @ 11:50 pm - May 19, 2013

  11. In order to believe Obama’s angle on things, which is “I am not evil, I am just the most incompetent and uninformed President in history” then you would have to believe there is a much larger problem: A Democratic Party with activist partisans working in the various departments of the government running amok and unable to be kept under control.

    So it is either that Obama is a complete and total liar or we have an entire political party gone rogue. So which is it?

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 12:06 am - May 20, 2013

  12. ““The law is irrelevant” might well be the motto of the Obama regime.”

    That could be true. But in this specific case he was talking about how if its legal its not up to him, but he would not wait for the justice department to determine as such. He said to the Obama admin, legal or not, its just plain wrong. He could do as other administrations have done and say “wait for the investigation to be complete” yada yada yada.
    But nope. They came out strong and deserve credit for that.

    And to suggest that he thinks “No need to get the law involved” is a lie.

    This is bad enough for Obama and there is no need for the right to get caught up in lies like ILC just did.

    V – thank you for point that out. I have been out of the loop and did not see that earlier. However, there are two periods in which this happened, August 2010 to July 2011 & January 2012 to June 2012. Maybe there were referring to the 2012 incidents? – where clearly there was a HUGE surge as your link shows. I am not sure.

    Comment by mike — May 20, 2013 @ 12:42 am - May 20, 2013

  13. Ted Cruz has the right answer: Abolish the IRS as we know it (replace it with a Flat Tax, Fair Tax, or some combination thereof), repeal Obamacare, and abolish the ATF.

    If the Government doesn’t have our personal, financial, or health records, then Government can’t abuse our personal, financial, and health records.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 1:02 am - May 20, 2013

  14. CP
    I don’t think the CEO of Taco Bell knew that some of his employees were selling weed out of the drive through. I don’t think a mayor should have prior knowledge if cops are selling evidence on eBay. I don’t think Rumsfeld knew that his troops were stacking Iraqi prisoners like cordwood. I don’t think Bush knew his team was cherry picking intelligence. And I don’t think in this case Obama knew about the methods bureaucrats were using to determine eligibility of tax-exempt status.

    If in any of the cases, the leader of the organization knew about it and directed, well they should be fired/imprisoned or in Obama’s case impeached. In the case of Nixon for example, there was ample evidence he directed these illicit activities and was tactically involved in the cover up. In this case, I have seen no evidence that these came from the Whitehouse and like Benghazi, I see no evidence that any cover-up came from the white house. Instead at least the record I have seen shows there was a complicated back and forth between agencies until a consensus evolved that even Petraeus said was “good work.”

    Further more, if you click on the link that V the K provided in comment #10 you can see that indeed at this time, it appears to be a bunch of well meaning people trying to organize things in a manner that made sense to them.
    From his link:
    “ In a way, Washington wasn’t meddling enough. And this allowed middle managers in Cincinnati to make some bad calls.”

    And then this:
    “The staff member, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of losing his job, said that the determinations unit is competent and without bias, that it grouped together conservative applications “for consistency’s sake” — so one application did not sail through while a similar one was held up in review. This consistency is paramount in the review of all applications, according to Ronald Ran, an estate-tax lawyer who worked for 37 years in the IRS’s Cincinnati office.

    “You’re not going to have a bunch of flaming liberals in the exempt-organizations department looking for conservative applications,” he said.”

    Thanks to V for providing this fair representation.

    Comment by mike — May 20, 2013 @ 1:06 am - May 20, 2013

  15. I don’t think the CEO of Taco Bell knew that some of his employees were selling weed out of the drive through. I don’t think a mayor should have prior knowledge if cops are selling evidence on eBay. I don’t think Rumsfeld knew that his troops were stacking Iraqi prisoners like cordwood. I don’t think Bush knew his team was cherry picking intelligence. And I don’t think in this case Obama knew about the methods bureaucrats were using to determine eligibility of tax-exempt status.

    Nice array of straw men you built there. What if the CEO of Taco Bell’s chief attorney was told well in advance that they were selling pot from the drive through and the manager in charge of drive through sales knew about it for two years and the manager he reports to knew about it for 4 months before it finally became public?

    What we have here is a pattern of scandal going all the way back to Fast and Furious where nobody knew anything yet the operations HAD to be approved by higher authority. Selling pot out of a drive through is something a person can do on their own without any knowledge from above. Stacking prisoners and taking their picture is something a small unit, drunk with victory, can do on the spur of the moment.

    All of these scandals are either very long term operations that required approval from higher up (who created the questionnaires sent to tea party groups? Who approved them? Line agents don’t just make those up on the fly)

    Nobody knows who ordered the White House to pull a Nixon Plumbers move and confiscate the records at AP to plug a leak. Nobody. This is something that requires senior approval to do. Holder claims he “recused himself” which means he knew admits he knew it was happening, but there is no recusal letter to be found. There is no paper trail of any sort.

    Again, this says they are either bald-faced liars or that we have a Democratic Party with activist partisans running amok in the departments of government.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:15 am - May 20, 2013

  16. Was it illegal? If anyone violated the law, they should be prosecuted. If people didn’t violate the law, they shouldn’t be prosecuted. What Pfeiffer said was correct: It was wrong whether or not it was legal. I don’t think he knew off the top of his head whether it was legal, nor, for that matter, has the investigation advanced to the point that there is enough evidence for criminal charges IF what was done was illegal.

    Comment by Mitch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:21 am - May 20, 2013

  17. “Ted Cruz has the right answer: Abolish the IRS as we know it (replace it with a Flat Tax, Fair Tax, or some combination thereof), repeal Obamacare, and abolish the ATF.”

    If we don’t have an agency responsible for collecting taxes, how will the government collect taxes?

    Also: If we don’t have an agency responsible for investigating and charging criminal gun deals with selling guns to criminals and straw purchasers (in order to earn money), how will we charge illegal gun dealers with selling guns to criminals and straw purchasers? The ATF NEEDS to be reformed. Right now there are too many regulations on the ATF preventing it from enforcing laws already on the books. We don’t need new gun laws. We just need to enforce the laws on the books, which requires having an ATF that is allowed to enforce laws on the books.

    Comment by Mitch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:25 am - May 20, 2013

  18. Obama creates a bazillion “czars” that do not require approval by Congress.

    Obama creates a bipartisan budget commission and ignores their results.

    Obama creates a jobs commission, ignores it.

    Obama’s pal Corzine steals millions from investors, never spends a single day in jail. In fact, Obama is on a pace to file a record low number of cases for financial fraud among modern Presidents.

    Obama has so far charged more people under the espionage act than all Presidents in history combined. Several of these cases are legitimate whisleblowers using legitimate channels.

    The Obama administration has shoveled literally billions of dollars into the pockets of politically connected investors through their various “green energy” and “green fuels” programs.

    Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court. Zero judicial experience, college socialist, basically appointed a political hack from his administration to the Supreme Court.

    Fired Inspector General Walpin when he started investigating major supporter of Obama.

    Authorized assassination of US citizen. First time in history by a US President.

    Black Panther voter intimidation case.

    For some reason had the 2010 US Census placed directly under the control of the White House for the first time in history.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:35 am - May 20, 2013

  19. Created the “flag” email address where people could report friends and neighbors who were saying things against Obama. At least one person claims hearing from the IRS shortly after submitting his own name and address to that email address.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:36 am - May 20, 2013

  20. Was it illegal?

    Falling back to the old liberal standby that legal = ethical?

    No, it was not illegal to abandon four members of our foreign service to die at the hands of terrorists and take no action to defend or evacuate them earlier. No, it was not “illegal” to tell those in the CIA Annex on Benghazi not to help those at the consulate, which they did anyway and were able to evacuate several people out of the consulate compound back to the annex.

    No, it probably isn’t even illegal to tell bald-faced lies to the American people or to lie to Congress when not under oath. None of that is “illegal” but it needs to see the light of day and be exposed for exactly what it is:

    Slimy, underhanded, lying bastards.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:40 am - May 20, 2013

  21. No other President in my lifetime got on the airwaves during a campaign and talked about punishing enemies and helping supporters. To activist partisans, those would be marching orders.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 1:46 am - May 20, 2013

  22. The point is that in the case of Benghazi it is perfectly clear that the State Department ignored warnings by CIA and by people on the ground. Hillary was playing her hippie unicorn strategy of “light footprint” won’t draw attention and draw an attack but in reality was an invitation to attack JUST as the people on the ground feared.

    This is very obviously a case where Hillary screwed up bigtime and the party as a whole is trying to protect her chances at a run in 2016. The problem is that nobody likes a weasel and she is coming across as a weasel. Of course, her weasel ways go all the way back to when she was fired from the Watergate investigation for lying and unethical activity. This was well before she was ducking “sniper fire” in Bosnia. Nope, probably not “illegal” at all unless she gets brought up for negligent homicide.

    http://earthchanges.ning.com/profiles/blogs/hillary-clinton-fired-for-lies-unethical-behavior-during-watergat?xg_source=activity

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 2:06 am - May 20, 2013

  23. THIS is what has happened to the Democratic Party. This is why Democrats must either be purged from government at all levels or another faction of the party must wrest control from the Chicago Machine faction that fired the party staff, moved the party to Chicago, and now has it run by the Chicago Machine.

    These scandals are not outlying corner cases anymore, it is what the Democratic Party is now about. The use of government departments to punish opponents is the very lifeblood of Chicago politics. The Democratic Party has a systemic problem. It has become rotten. It is totally and completely corrupt. I just don’t know if anyone has the power to fix this and return a once great party to its former place.

    http://www.mustangworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694844

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 2:37 am - May 20, 2013

  24. These scandals are not outlying corner cases anymore, it is what the Democratic Party is now about.

    Right, and apparently, a majority of liberals are OK with it because the people being persecuted are people they have been conditioned to hate.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 5:48 am - May 20, 2013

  25. The harassment the left is defending: A Tea Party group applies for tax-exempt status, and its founder’s company gets repeated harassment from the IRS, the FBI, OSHA, ATF and congressional Democrats.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 7:53 am - May 20, 2013

  26. CP your outrage in #20 is exactly why the legality of this was called irrelevant. The obama admin said today legal or not its still wrong.

    Furthermore I think many of your concerns in#15 will be alleviated if you read the link vthek posted in #10

    Comment by mike — May 20, 2013 @ 8:40 am - May 20, 2013

  27. The Obama regime is claiming it was an “outrage,” yet the people most responsible have been rewarded and promoted. Odd, that.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 8:57 am - May 20, 2013

  28. Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
    Renault: I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.
    Employee of Rick’s: [hands Renault money] Your winnings, sir.
    Renault: Oh, thank you very much. Everybody out at once!

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — May 20, 2013 @ 9:11 am - May 20, 2013

  29. Gee, what a coincidence!

    In short: the very day after the president of the quite publicly anti-Tea Party labor union — the union for IRS employees — met with President Obama, the manager of the IRS “Determinations Unit Program agreed” to open a “Sensitive Case report on the Tea party cases.” As stated by the IG report.</blockquote?

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 9:34 am - May 20, 2013

  30. I always get a good laugh when reading treads on this page.

    Despite the temper tantrums, and conspiracy theories being thrown out on this page and similar right-wing nut jobs sites, Obama’s approval ratings have remained untouched. Given that you are bat crazy I’m going to assume you believe that poll takers are also apart of some grand conspiracy to do whatever, but for those who don’t wear tinfoil or need to enhance our manhood with guns it is nevertheless amusing that Obama hasn’t been effected by your next round of conspiracy theories.
    You see the public is immune to your craziness. From Obama’s a Muslim, to he’s not an American, to he’s a Marxist and now to the claims that he purposely allowed our ambassadors to be killed and his use of the IRS to “silence” the tea baggers no one buys you garbage anymore.

    This is what is going to happen. You’re going to continue your temper tantrums on sites like this. The GOP will continue to obstruct the president as they have for the past four years. No meaningful legislation will get passed, but beyond that nothing is going to happen. You can throw your fits, dream about lynching the president, but your not going to gain any ground other then what you have right now.

    So while nothing will get done for the next four years, and you’ll have the political victory of standing by terrorists and criminals being able to legally buy guns, I’m going to sit back and enjoy the fit of rage you nut jobs will express for the next four years because nothing will happen to Obama. It will be a lot of fun, second only to the fit you guys will throw should the SCOTUS throw out prop 8 and article 3 of DOMA.

    Comment by JPerry2006 — May 20, 2013 @ 9:47 am - May 20, 2013

  31. While JPerry’s childish temper-tantrum is amusing on a certain level, it is alarming how much of the country shares his fascist, cult-of-personality mindset as regards Obama.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 10:14 am - May 20, 2013

  32. The obama admin said today legal or not its still wrong.

    Still “wrong” based on what? On a common moral code or based on slippery moral relevancy in which the ends justify the means until you are caught and have to express faux outrage?

    All things not illegal are therefore ethical and moral until decided otherwise. That is the Statist version of “catch me if you can” which is the operating procedure until faux outrage is necessary and strawmen are deployed and topics are shifted and blame by equivalency is placed and the spin machine starts crying “irrelevant” and “out of context” and “we are the most transparent administration since …. ”

    littlelettermike is awash in “hoping” people will just let Obama “change” the narrative so we can all just move along. (moveon.org. will handle the talking points.)

    “The Obama administration said ….” is just the same as “the black community thinks….” or the “Arab street believes…..” and all the other crapola liberal “thinkers” resort to for their invented sources.

    Was it “wrong” for “the Obama administration” to leave the Benghazi mission stripped of anything representative of protection in a hostile town where civil war erupts and the government of the country is slowly building itself up by using Scotch tape and old clarinet reeds?

    Was it “wrong” for “the Obama administration” tell troops not to go to the aid of the besieged Benghazi mission? Was it “wrong” for the Commander-in-Chief to get the news of the Benghazi attack and then disappear from the scene of command as the episode unfolded? Was it “wrong” for the Commander-in-Chief to dodge calling it terrorism in unequivocal terms and to blame an unseen video when everyone on in Benghazi called it a terrorist attack and that there is no evidence that the video played any role in the Benghazi attack?

    These questions are endless.

    But, littlelettermike seems to support “the Obama administration” and to be simpatico with them when they have an epiphany about something being “wrong.” It is almost like Pavlov has trained this puppy. “The Obama administration” is forced to say something is “wrong” and the littlelettermike puppy runs around in circles and dribbles on command.

    “Wrong” doesn’t cut it littlelettermike. In “the Obama administration” it is based on the concept that even the corruptocrats have a code of honor. Horsefeathers! They have to be forced to say that “mistakes were made” which they follow up with promises left to be unfulfilled of “getting to the bottom of the issue” so that “it will never happen again.”

    Everything is in the future and the past is neutered and forgotten. There is no wrong wrong, just temporary wrong.

    And the drooling, adoring Progressives just want to Progress on their might-makes-right, political correctness path to crush the opposition in a crusade of statism. Grow the government. Socialize. Redistribute the wealth. Make everyone equal. “All Power to the Imagination.” “Deeds Not Words.” “Each for All and All for Each.” “Every Man a King.” “Everything Within the State, Nothing Outside the State.” “Hasta la Victoria Siempre.” “Hope and Change.” “No War But Class War.” “Power to the People.” “Serve the People.” “The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Poorer.” “We are the 99%.” “A New Deal.” “A Fair Deal.” “A Square Deal.” “Its Time to Change America.” “Change We Can Believe In.” “Forward.” “Great Leap Forward.” “Grassroots Socialism.” “Those Who Are Against Chairman Mao Will have their Dog Skulls Smashed into Pieces.” “Reform the Objective World.” “Thought Reform.” “Cultural Revolution.” “Let a Thousand Flowers Bloom.”

    Mendacity and Mediocrity for the Masses and Power to the Politburo. Than it the world of littlelettermike and his drooling classes.

    Comment by heliotrope — May 20, 2013 @ 10:33 am - May 20, 2013

  33. Apparently this isn’t limited to just IRS. Looks like “True The Vote” was harassed by IRS, FBI, OSHA, and ATF

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/05/unreal-irs-shake-down-of-true-the-vote-involved-visits-from-fbi-osha-and-atf-who-checked-her-gun-safe-video/

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 11:24 am - May 20, 2013

  34. Jeremiah Wright’s lawyer who got his church out of an IRS probe is now IRS chief counsel.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/19/Chief-IRS-counsel-bailed-Jeremiah-Wright-s-church-out-of-IRS-probe-in-2008

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 11:50 am - May 20, 2013

  35. Despite the temper tantrums, and conspiracy theories being thrown out on this page and similar right-wing nut jobs sites, Obama’s approval ratings have remained untouched.

    Oh, really? You spin more than Lynda Carter did in four seasons as Wonder Woman.

    But you are wrong. Voila:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/05/19/worst-week-obamas-presidency-cnn-publishes-poll-saying-his-job-approv

    Looks like this was the State-Run Media working with Axelrod and others to ensure Duh Won looked good.

    Remember, this is the same network that trumpeted Bush’s falling approval ratings after Katrina. In fact, they polled a misleading sampling of “registered” (not “likely”) voters, which – in case you don’t know – are less likely to vote.

    Try again, Wonder Woman.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — May 20, 2013 @ 12:09 pm - May 20, 2013

  36. If we don’t have an agency responsible for collecting taxes, how will the government collect taxes?

    I suggest you read the following:

    “In a fully free society, taxation—or, to be exact, payment for governmental services—would be voluntary. Since the proper services of a government—the police, the armed forces, the law courts—are demonstrably needed by individual citizens and affect their interests directly, the citizens would (and should) be willing to pay for such services, as they pay for insurance.

    “The question of how to implement the principle of voluntary government financing—how to determine the best means of applying it in practice—is a very complex one and belongs to the field of the philosophy of law. The task of political philosophy is only to establish the nature of the principle and to demonstrate that it is practicable. The choice of a specific method of implementation is more than premature today—since the principle will be practicable only in a fully free society, a society whose government has been constitutionally reduced to its proper, basic functions.”

    The source? Ayn Rand – “Government Financing in a Free Society.”

    Checkmate.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — May 20, 2013 @ 12:16 pm - May 20, 2013

  37. Flat tax, not deductions, for most Americans it is withheld. For 1099 income, multiply the earnings by the tax rate, send it in. Period.

    Simple. Still have an IRS but a much smaller organization. No audits required unless the 1099′s don’t match.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 12:48 pm - May 20, 2013

  38. “The “Benghazi e-mails were doctored!” canard, refuted.”

    I don’t think so, ILC. Hot Air (aptly named, I think).

    Look at your source’s source: “Both Hayes and Karl refer to summaries of the emails, meaning they presumably relied a great deal on the notes of those at the March 19 White House briefing. Karl inaccurately quotes from one email, which may have been based on faulty note-taking or some other error.”

    So, like Jazz Shaw, you are calling this issue “refuted” because of claims prefaced by: “may” and “presumably” and “great deal.” Seriously–that refutes the claim that the reporter was fed the incriminating email quote/report by a GOP staffer? Hmm…

    Further, I think it is OK to say that your source “asserts” a different view regarding email content, but to say he “refutes” a claim–you know, proves it… I don’t think so, especially when his “proof” is a commentary from the National Review saying it isn’t important for the overall case. JS asserts that the “doctoring” wasn’t that important, and that the sense of the emails was the same. You can argue that, if you think that moving from “government agencies” to “government agencies, including the State Department” is a “no harm, no foul” kind of issue. Given the emphasis that GOP folks have placed on targeting Hilary Clinton, I cannot agree with you on that. Is State an important player–yes, I’ll grant that immediately. But the email doctoring turns “a player” into “THE player.” I think that distinction, given the political dimensions of the way this “scandal” has played out, is VERY important.

    Especially, when the source’s source ends its commentary by saying: “Furthermore, there is ample evidence beyond this e-mail that the White House and State Department were deeply involved in editing the talking points to scrub references to terrorism.” Definitely the claim to make when the email quote specifically “included the State Department.”

    Comment by Passing By — May 20, 2013 @ 3:18 pm - May 20, 2013

  39. The quote distinction: Oh, and add, making the White House an active player on BEHALF of the State Department…

    Comment by Passing By — May 20, 2013 @ 3:20 pm - May 20, 2013

  40. Despite the tedious efforts of Obama’s boot-lickers, that facts of Benghazi are pretty stubborn.

    1. The consulate asked for security before the attack; the Obama regime refused it.
    2. The Obama Regime at a minimum stood by and did nothing while the consulate was under attack for ten hours; and at worst, blocked help from getting to the consulate.
    3. President Obama spent the days after the attack in which four Americans were murdered partying at fundraisers.
    4. Although they knew it was a terrorist attack; the Obama Regime lied and claimed it was a “spontaneous uprising” about a YouTube video.
    5. The Obama Regime has stonewalled congressional access to documents and witnesses that could testify about what happened at Benghazi.

    These are facts.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 3:50 pm - May 20, 2013

  41. Of course, the reason little-letter mike, JBigot2006, and Passing Cas are screaming and ranting so loudly today is because more of their Obama’s stupidity is blowing up on them.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 20, 2013 @ 4:25 pm - May 20, 2013

  42. [Deleted. –Ed.]

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 20, 2013 @ 4:43 pm - May 20, 2013

  43. Abolish the IRS. Yes.
    Have the states collect our taxes through a national sales tax and render it to the Feds. Everyone, even drug dealers will be forced to pay at least some tax. Even John Kerry. Plus it would be an added leverage for the states to have over the Federal government. Easy peasy.

    Comment by Texann — May 20, 2013 @ 5:05 pm - May 20, 2013

  44. Now the White House and DoJ are going after Fox News’ chief Washington correspondent James Rosen as a criminal for normal journalism; secretly tapping his phones and reading his emails.

    And the Guv’mnt wants us to voluntarily-cooperate with the desire to combine your Homeland Security/NSA bio-metrics and tracking—IRS Tax-files and Banking/credit Card records—and your Health Insurance records and files in one master Database???

    Oh, and they want to “chip” your car for road taxes and insurance-risk management with GPS-tracking for location, speed and driving-habits “monitoring”.

    Time for everyone to buy at-least one “burner-phone” and install encryption on your PCs and mobiles.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — May 20, 2013 @ 5:30 pm - May 20, 2013

  45. Whoa! Cas Passing Gas pontificates:

    But the email doctoring turns “a player” into “THE player.” I think that distinction, given the political dimensions of the way this “scandal” has played out, is VERY important.

    OK, Sherlock, PROVE the email was doctored.

    The clock is set and ticking. Tick, tick, tick, …….

    (For those who really don’t care, Cas Passing Gas is referring to a Benghazi email the Congressional investigators were permitted to see, but could not copy and no verbatim copy was released to the Congressional committee. The White House says the investigators DOCTORED the email they did not receive. The email has still not been released. Perhaps the email was not quoted entirely accurately, but that does not produce a “doctored email” in any way, shape or form.

    Of course, perhaps someone produced a fake document, but that is not what Cas Passing Gas is asserting. What Cas Passing Gas is asserting is that ILC is shoveling smoke by using the word “refute.” A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.)

    Comment by heliotrope — May 20, 2013 @ 6:39 pm - May 20, 2013

  46. crosspatch.

    No Internal Revenue Service at all nor 1099´s nor any tax forms that we are familiar with. It has had only one hundred years of existence. Paraphrasing an old song; ¨We got along before we met you, we´re going to get along without you now.¨ Now what can be created is a REVENUE RECEIVING AGENCY with no policing or investigating authority. Since the Fair Tax is based on sales. Large Corporations could forward tax collected on monthly basis with a report of sales, medium size businesses on a quarterly basis and small businesses, semi annually also with report of sales. This will be one helluva smaller beauracracy.

    Comment by Roberto — May 20, 2013 @ 7:15 pm - May 20, 2013

  47. Really, all the Government’s tax collectors should need to know about you is the amount of your tax bill; not your age, your race, your connections, what books you read, what health care you have, or with whom you associate.

    Comment by V the K — May 20, 2013 @ 7:23 pm - May 20, 2013

  48. So Senator Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS. It looks like my letter writing campaign is finally beginning to bear fruit. Senators Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Minority Leader McConnell, Pat Toomey, John Thune were the among those on my list.

    Comment by Roberto — May 20, 2013 @ 7:26 pm - May 20, 2013

  49. Pfeiffer’s comments on one of the talking head shows on Sunday got a little heat when the host (I don’t remember which one it was) started asking about where Obama was. Pfeiffer was saying that Obama was in constant contact with his “national security staff” and the host doesn’t seem to understand that important piece of Washington jargon and says something like “he wasn’t in contact with Hillary Clinton, he wasn’t in contact with the CIA, he wasn’t in contact with … ” and so on. To which Pfeiffer repeats “he was in contact with his national security staff”. That means that Tom Donilon was actually the primary communications channel between Obama and the rest of the team. Tom Donilon is Obama’s National Security Advisor and the national security staff reports to him. Donilon has no military experience, no intelligence community experience, is basically a political hack and is known as “leaker in chief” in Washington circles. So basically things were effectively being run by someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing.

    Comment by crosspatch — May 20, 2013 @ 9:21 pm - May 20, 2013

  50. My goodness me, Such venom from NDT, Jaj Jah Binky, and Purpe Proboscis. Clearly hit a nerve…

    NDT thinks I am screaming. You need to get your hearing checked NDT.

    Jar Jar Binky, thinks I should commit self murder–to go with the threats of physical violence and murder that he has uttered against me in the past. How lovely! Why you haven’t been banned from this site is a mystery to me.

    Then the Purple Proboscis sniffs out an apparent argumentative problem–prove that it was doctored! Fun.

    First things first: “The email has still not been released. ” are you referring to this email? Or some other email? Because, if it was this email, which is the one the Hot Air article was referring to, it looks like it was released. Just saying.

    ” What Cas Passing Gas is asserting is that ILC is shoveling smoke by using the word “refute.”” No. I am questioning his claim that that Hot AiIr (and by extension, ILC, who believes it did) proved its case.

    After all the prognostications and salivation over an email that many on this site believed was the “smoking gun” for a scandal; and with people saying that the “changes” or “doctored” content are irrelevant–he chooses to NOW ask for proof of a position that others on this site implicitly accept as a bone of contention–that the emails were indeed changed, and that they definitely made the WH l& Hilary Clinton look much worse–lordy! Well, you do have a big set, big boy!

    Could this have been just a silly little transcription error? Of course! But its kinda interesting to ask what a change in meaning that little “transcription error” made to the meaning of the document and how it just happened to coincide with Republican efforts to push the Benghazi issue up a notch AND attack Hilary Clinton. There is no way you would be arguing like this in your normally partisan way, if this were a Republican scandal and the roles were reversed. So, pardon me for thinking that your argument is just an clumsy attempt to muddy the waters or pass gas… or should that be a purple haze?

    Comment by Passing By — May 20, 2013 @ 11:55 pm - May 20, 2013

  51. Jar Jar Binky, thinks I should commit self murder–to go with the threats of physical violence and murder that he has uttered against me in the past. How lovely! Why you haven’t been banned from this site is a mystery to me.

    Because, Cas, you and the LGBT community endorse and support telling conservatives to kill themselves.

    And you also endorse and support the Barack Obama Party and the Barack Obama administration, which wishes death on conservatives.

    Now, Cas, either repudiate the Barack Obama Party and the LGBT community for threatening death and violence against conservatives, or be exposed as demanding of others rules and standards that you won’t follow.

    And, Cas, since you won’t follow the laws, you lose their protection.

    And since you no longer have their protection, you can be told to kill yourself and have violence threatened against you all day long. We conservatives have recognized the main lesson of violent Islam: if you want liberals and “progressives” to leave you alone, you need to inflict enough pain on them to make them stop.

    You don’t like it? Tough. You should have thought of that before you deemed the rules “irrelevant”. You should have thought of that before you supported and endorsed the Obama administration’s lies. You should have thought of that before you decided to support the IRS and the Obama Party targeting and abusing government power against conservatives.

    In short, you should have respected and enforced the law equally. But since you won’t, there’s only one option left.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 21, 2013 @ 12:34 am - May 21, 2013

  52. Passing by….

    “How lovely! Why you haven’t been banned from this site is a mystery to me.”

    While trolling these people is the utmost of fun, there come a point in time in which the best solution is to ignore VtK and NDT.

    These are people who support the murder and torture of gays and want to overthrow our gov’t to institute a theocratic regime. While it is disheartening people like this exist you can take solace in the following.

    First there is no evidence that the Obama administration has been damaged by this witch-hunt or conspiracy theory. There is no reason to believe that it will. They will throw fits on blogs like this and others, but let them.

    Second, despite being ignored by this blog and despite VtK and NDT hopes and dreams the man who killed Mark Carson will be found and brought to justice. They might provide for his defense team, but we live in a civilized world and the murder will go to prison.

    Third, again despite being ignored by this blog and VtK and NDT protests, in all likelihood article 3 of DOMA will go down.

    So while they are horrible people, while they support the murder of gays, and while they want to overthrow the US, they will fail and their little plots and temper tantrums won’t matter beyond this blog.

    That brings a smile to my face, as it should yours.

    Comment by JPerry2006 — May 21, 2013 @ 1:31 am - May 21, 2013

  53. “In a fully free society, taxation—or, to be exact, payment for governmental services—would be voluntary. Since the proper services of a government—the police, the armed forces, the law courts—are demonstrably needed by individual citizens and affect their interests directly, the citizens would (and should) be willing to pay for such services, as they pay for insurance.”

    Services AREN’T and cannot be voluntarily. We live in a country. Countries cost money. We have police and many other government services that serve a valid purpose. If a criminal thug murders a poor person who doesn’t have the money to pay for police, I want that criminal arrested. If a criminal thug murders a stupid person who doesn’t want to pay for police, I want that criminal arrested. If a fire starts to burn in the apartment complex next to mine, I want the fire put out, regardless of whether that apartment owner paid for fire protection. Furthermore, if Nazis start to genocide millions of people and tries to take over Europe and supports attacks on the US and/or our allies, I want the Nazis to be defeated, even if some people don’t want to pay taxes. Thus, a lot of people want to get something for free: They would get police, fire, military, and more for free if they were allowed not pay taxes.

    Highways are also great because they help the economy and provide a good that lots of people use directly and that everyone uses indirectly or directly. (One of the reasons the highways were created was to make military movements possible in the event of war, but I would argue for them even from an economic standpoint.)

    Even the commenter I was originally replying to supporting forcing people to pay taxes. He said there should be a fair tax.

    Comment by Mitch — May 21, 2013 @ 3:03 am - May 21, 2013

  54. Hi JPerry2006,
    I don’t agree with your position concerning what many (?) commentators here think about the issues; I find that the positions of many conservative commentators on this site are much more nuanced, interesting, and thoughtful than the broadbrush you want to paint them with (and I do not think that even NDT or VK believe what you–if I read you right–think they do, though it could be that you are rhetorically “doing an NDT” with all that hyperbole. Sorry, I cannot tell.), but thank you for the advice about ignoring the slings and arrows of outrageous commentators.

    Check out VK’s website. He has an interesting sense of humour, and even if I do not support his politics or his occasional mean spiritedness, he more often than not has interesting, thoughtful, and fun things to say.

    As for NDT, I have no idea what he is talking about right now, or how it is related to the conversation; or Jah Jah Binky’s over the top aggressive and totally inappropriate rhetoric for that matter. The fact that NDT supports it in his post, says plenty about NDT. And given that he seems to be skirting a little close to the edge of inappropriate speech himself… it is also, well, sad.

    Comment by Passing By — May 21, 2013 @ 3:05 am - May 21, 2013

  55. Mitch may find this hard to believe, but most conservatives are okay with paying for national defense, the criminal justice system, highways, and a modest social welfare system. Two of these are things that are the proper role of Government, and the other two are things that there is a broad social consensus for; even if they are sub-optimal solutions.

    What conservatives object to is funding a massive and inefficient Government bureaucracy that does things that are much better done in the private sector or not at all. We object to funding a massive public education system that fails our kids and denies choices to parents. We object to funding regulatory bureaucracies that impose massive costs on business and achieve little if any public benefit. We object to funding bloated, corrupt welfare systems that entrap people in dependency and that we can no longer afford We object to the growing police state, where the Department of Education has its own SWAT Teams that they deploy against … student loan debtors. (WTF) We object to funding a Government so huge and corrupt it can be, and has been, used to attack political opponents of the administration. We object to the crony socialism of the Obama regime sending billions of dollars to favored enterprises owned by wealthy donors and propping up Wall Street to the tune of $85 Billion a month. We object to subsidizing a higher education system that is bloated, expensive, and out of touch with the culture and values of middle America.

    Comment by V the K — May 21, 2013 @ 8:51 am - May 21, 2013

  56. BTW, that “the emails were doctored” talking point gets three Pinocchios from the WashPost. Sucks to be you, talking pointers.

    Comment by V the K — May 21, 2013 @ 8:52 am - May 21, 2013

  57. The funny part about the Obama puppet Mitch whining and moaning about services and the necessity of taxes is how Mitch endorses and supports the Obama Party and its endorsement and support of tax cheats.

    Furthermore, as the IRS scandal shows, Mitch and his Obama Party believe that tax enforcement and having to follow the tax laws are solely dependent on political affiliation.

    Which demonstrates quite nicely that Mitch and his fellow Obama supporters do not want to pay their taxes; instead, they want “services” at other peoples’ expense.

    I wonder if Mitch is man enough to come back and answer for why his Obama Party supports tax cheats and why his Obama Party uses the IRS to punish and harass conservatives while ignoring tax fraud being committed by Obama supporters?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 21, 2013 @ 10:31 am - May 21, 2013

  58. Meanwhile, as for JPerry2006′s rant, it is hilarious that he projects onto others what he and his fellow left-wing liberals actually do.

    And if JPerry2006 were so concerned about peoples’ lives, he and his fellow liberal gays might actually take the time to be more careful, instead of getting children sick at a rate twice that of sub-Saharan Africa.

    Not to mention, as I pointed out, that JPerry2006 and the Barack Obama Party openly call for conservatives to be killed, especially gay conservatives.

    When you keep all that in mind, the fact that JPerry2006 is a violent bigot who hides behind his sexual orientation is obvious to all. Not even the anti-conservative bigot Cas wants to be associated with JPerry2006′s obvious instability and hate.

    LOL.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 21, 2013 @ 10:37 am - May 21, 2013

  59. As for NDT, I have no idea what he is talking about right now, or how it is related to the conversation; or Jah Jah Binky’s over the top aggressive and totally inappropriate rhetoric for that matter. The fact that NDT supports it in his post, says plenty about NDT. And given that he seems to be skirting a little close to the edge of inappropriate speech himself… it is also, well, sad.

    Comment by Passing By — May 21, 2013 @ 3:05 am – May 21, 2013

    It’s called demanding that you piety dance, Cas.

    You screamed and ranted about violence in speech and telling people to kill themselves and demanded that conservatives piety-dance and condemn it.

    You got provided the opportunity to condemn it yourself from your fellow bigots in the Obama Party.

    And you flunked.

    So since you won’t condemn violent speech and telling people to kill themselves when it comes from the Obama Party, you don’t deserve the same courtesy being extended to you.

    And since you clearly support and endorse telling conservatives to kill themselves, the same can and should be thrown back at you.

    As I mentioned, Cas, conservatives have long since figured out that bigots like you and JPerry2006 do not respect courtesy, civility, or standards; indeed, you openly take advantage of them to steal from and harm people.

    Hence you no longer shall receive the benefit of all three. You shall be treated as a a malicious liar like your Obama, a tax cheat like your Obama, and a violent murderer who wishes conservatives were dead like your Obama’s Dan Savage and Michelangelo Signorile.

    Is that clear?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 21, 2013 @ 10:44 am - May 21, 2013

  60. From the link at #56 – The Washington Post fact check says:

    Indeed, Republicans would have been foolish to seriously doctor e-mails that the White House at any moment could have released (and eventually did). Clearly, of course, Republicans would put their own spin on what the e-mails meant, as they did in the House report. Given that the e-mails were almost certain to leak once they were sent to Capitol Hill, it’s a wonder the White House did not proactively release them earlier.

    In the comments in the link at #56:

    10:23 AM EDT
    There really should be an investigation into who doctored the relevant emails. Evidence tampering is not something that should be taken lightly.

    The Republicans may claim to love the Bible but they seem to have difficulty understanding the “Thou shall not bear false witness part.”

    Isn’t it amazing how the talking points Progressive will drive the bus over what they didn’t want to know and just stay focused on the talking points?

    Cas Passing Gas decided that ILC needed to be taken to the woodshed over his use or misuse of the word refute rather than attend to actual issue.

    So, out of irascibility, I laid the “doctored” claim back on Cas Passing Gas in the spirit of turnabout being fair play and all that kindergarten level debate shifting that Cas Passing Gas plays as high dudgeon and superiority domination.

    Not being invested in all the permutations of the shielded email story, I may have been mistaken about its final disposition in terms of whether it has been released or not. That is a distinction without a difference, however when it comes to “who doctored the e-mails.” The issue is what is meant or even implied when one claims “doctoring.”

    So far, Cas Passing Gas is perfectly content to be pompously spurious in ignoring the tacit understanding urged by repeating the claim of “doctoring.”

    We all know that the general meaning of “doctoring” an email is to alter it, to change it, to falsify it. The WaPo fact checker takes this meaning when he asserts: Indeed, Republicans would have been foolish to seriously doctor e-mails that the White House at any moment could have released (and eventually did).

    Just to be clear, the WaPo fact checker is stating that emails “doctored”, meaning altered, by the Republicans would be immediately exposed when compared with the original emails.

    But the spin game is so embedded in the ideologically driven minds of many Progressives that one commenter to the WaPo story says: There really should be an investigation into who doctored the relevant emails. Proof positive that “damn the facts, that’s my story and I am sticking to it” always trumps logic, reason and precision.

    “Doctored” = Mary Mapes, Bill Burkett, Dan Rather and “false, but accurate.” The chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Terry McAuliffe, suggested that the memos might have originated with long-time Bush strategist Karl Rove. and so forth.

    Grasping at straws is how straw men are built.

    What Cas Passing Gas likely can neither see nor understand (when shown) is how desperate one looks when one resorts to nit-picking as the primary diversion to avoid confronting the actual issue at hand. It is often called “bunker mentality” which is the sense of self-justification, defensiveness and being overwhelmed by the weight of losing control. Spinmeisters only exist to control the narrative. Therefore, spinmeisters resort to knee-jerk reactions when the truth threatens them.

    Comment by heliotrope — May 21, 2013 @ 11:28 am - May 21, 2013

  61. Mitch @ #53:

    Services AREN’T and cannot be voluntarily. We live in a country. Countries cost money.

    No sane person would suggest that any government operate on donations.

    As a strict, fiscal conservative, I fully support a system of compulsory taxation in order promote the very general welfare which includes roads, defense, safe drinking water, education, police, fire departments, sewage systems, and other fundamental signs of living in a civilized and advanced society.

    There is no need to argue about funding primary functions through compulsory taxation.

    Now, I also believe that if you can not pay taxes from your government provided housing with your food stamp fed body that you can provide your labor as an exchange for what the working taxpayers send your way by way of the welfare system. (Somehow, I imagine you see that as some kind of slavery.)

    As I write this: “The SenateJudiciary Committee voted Monday to allow illegal immigrants who get legal status to begin collecting tax-welfare payments, as the panel spent a fourth day working through amendments to the massive immigration bill and party-line splits began to emerge.”

    We who pay taxes are forced (compulsory) to pay more and more taxes for ever more micro management of our lives and the lives of others.

    It is hardly surprising that those who pay little or no taxes are among the loudest in defending the system of wealth transfer and increasing the “free stuff” from “Obama’s stash.”

    Perhaps you are a wealthy and heavily taxed individual who is giddy-happy to pay compulsory taxes without reservation. May I point out that you are free to send additional donations to the Treasury? Knock yourself out.

    Comment by heliotrope — May 21, 2013 @ 11:49 am - May 21, 2013

  62. Why you haven’t been banned from this site is a mystery to me.

    It really bothers you, doesn’t it?

    Good! :D

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 21, 2013 @ 11:57 am - May 21, 2013

  63. That brings a smile to my face, ….

    Comment by JP*ssy2006 — May 21, 2013 @ 1:31 am

    Smile while you can, because things are about to change……..

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 21, 2013 @ 12:02 pm - May 21, 2013

  64. What Cas Passing Gas likely can neither see nor understand (when shown) is how desperate one looks when one resorts to nit-picking as the primary diversion to avoid confronting the actual issue at hand. It is often called “bunker mentality”

    It’s called “parsing the murder of 4 Americans”.

    Leave to a vile, despicable hunk of dogs**t like Cas-h*le to engage in it.

    Typical.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 21, 2013 @ 12:07 pm - May 21, 2013

  65. Well, Purple People Eater, if the aim is to deflect attention from my criticism of ILC’s claim concerning Hot Air’s “refutation,” you struggle manfully on. But, I will stick with my initial claim, and leave you to worry about whatever it is you are worrying about…

    “It is often called “bunker mentality” which is the sense of self-justification, defensiveness and being overwhelmed by the weight of losing control. Spinmeisters only exist to control the narrative. Therefore, spinmeisters resort to knee-jerk reactions when the truth threatens them.” Yes, your response to my initial comment shows this “bunker mentality” very well.

    Jman1961, “It really bothers you, doesn’t it?”

    It doesn’t bother me that you haven’t been banned, as yet. What bothers me is that you think it is OK to offer threats of violence to people; that other commentators on this site can listen to you doing so and think it is OK; and that no action is taken by moderators of this site when you do.

    Comment by Passing By — May 21, 2013 @ 12:47 pm - May 21, 2013

  66. Of course it bothers you, Cas; Obama supporters like you want the rules applied to punish and silence your opposition.

    That is the whole point of Benghazi, the IRS, the DOJ wiretaps, and now the Obama FBI stating that reporting the news is a crime. It is you and your fellow Obama supporters using governmental power to punish and silence any political opposition.

    That is what you do not comprehend, Cas. We are aware that your “outrage” is not against tyranny, violence, or abuse: it is against you not being in charge of it.

    And hence your whining and upset is that of a spoiled brat who is not getting its way and is resorting to shrieking that it’s “not fair”.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — May 21, 2013 @ 1:04 pm - May 21, 2013

  67. What bothers me is that you think it is OK to offer threats of violence to people; that other commentators on this site can listen to you doing so and think it is OK;

    Comment by Passing By Cas-Hole, First, Last and Always — May 21, 2013 @ 12:47 pm

    What bothers ME (and most everyone else here) is that YOU think it’s OK to trivialize the vile actions of your fellow liars and tyrants to dismiss the MURDER of four Americans; that other commentators on this site (like that f**ktard JP*ssy2006) can listen to you doing so and think it is OK.

    If you don’t like what’s happening here, then FO

    …and that no action is taken by moderators of this site when you do.

    Comment by Passing By Away — May 21, 2013 @ 12:47 pm

    Your totalitarian impulse is showing again, Cas-hole.
    It’s just too great a temptation for you to tell others how to run their affairs, isn’t it, you fascist witch?

    Now go away, before somebody drops a ban on YOU.

    Comment by Jman1961 — May 21, 2013 @ 1:15 pm - May 21, 2013

  68. What Cas Passing Gas likely can neither see nor understand (when shown) is how desperate one looks when one resorts to nit-picking as the primary diversion to avoid confronting the actual issue at hand.

    Clearly, Cas Passing Gas has demonstrated that my little escape hatch of saying “Cas Passing Gas likely can neither see nor understand…….” was a courtesy rejected.

    Cas Passing Gas has returned to prove that Cas Passing Gas CAN NOT see or understand how desperate Cas Passing Gas looks when Cas Passing Gas resorts to nit-picking as the primary diversion in order to avoid confronting the actual issue at hand.

    Cas Passing Gas tacitly agrees with the analysis.

    As if anyone here is the least bit surprised.

    Comment by heliotrope — May 21, 2013 @ 1:31 pm - May 21, 2013

  69. Woo-Hoo! 69!

    Comment by V the K — May 21, 2013 @ 2:56 pm - May 21, 2013

  70. “Woo-Hoo! 69!”
    :)

    Comment by Passing By — May 21, 2013 @ 5:30 pm - May 21, 2013

  71. [Purple Prognosticator] resorts to nit-picking as the primary diversion in order to avoid confronting the actual issue at hand.”

    Agree.

    Comment by Passing By — May 21, 2013 @ 5:31 pm - May 21, 2013

  72. mike #6: Simple question for you. The IRS revealing people’s confidential information is a crime, punishable by up to a year in jail. And we KNOW already that it was done. Should the IRS employees who did it – and/or the White House employees who ordered it, if any – be immediately discovered through investigation and, in due course, put on trial?

    If you can’t answer ‘yes’ to that readily, then we have no basis for rational discussion.

    Note that, last Sunday, Pfeiffer in effect gave a ‘non-yes’ answer. While professing his outrage, Pfeiffer planted hints that the IRS actions might have been legal. Also known as ‘misleading the American public’ (something your Obama administration does often). But you don’t want to deal with that, so instead, you start in with calling me a liar. Nice.

    PB – No evidence was tampered with. As with mike: If you can’t see that, then I can’t help you.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — May 22, 2013 @ 11:16 am - May 22, 2013

  73. ILC,

    It is not a case of “can’t see” so much as a case of refuses to see. The ideologue totally committed to the banality of ideological purity will not see, speak or hear anything that challenges either the dogma or the dear leader. But you already know that.

    Comment by heliotrope — May 22, 2013 @ 7:57 pm - May 22, 2013

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