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Chris Christie, The New Michael Dukakis?

Posted by Bruce Carroll at 11:35 am - September 16, 2013.
Filed under: 2016 Presidential Election

Guest Post from GP Community Member V The K.

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2016 is shaping up like a rerun of 1988, an election coming on the heels of a two-term presidency by a strongly ideological president. And in 2016, as in 1988, the party in power is poised to hand the baton to a defeated rival from the prior primary campaign who served the administration loyally afterward; George H.W. Bush in 1988, Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2016.

The Republican Party is in a comparable position to the Democrats 0f 1988; the party has been rejected in two successive national elections, its base is dispirited, and its governing philosophy repudiated by the electorate. Thus, Chris Christie of New Jersey, should he be the Republican nominee, is cast in the role of Bush 41’s hapless opponent Michael Dukakis; a man whose example he is likely to follow into humiliating defeat.

Here are 10 Reasons for that:

1. Christie and Dukakis are both blue-state governors with mediocre records. Christie and Dukakis have both been governors of liberal northeastern states. Both campaigned for governor as reformers, but achieved little in the way of actual reforms while in office. (For all Christie’s screaming at schoolteachers, all he’s really accomplished is increasing the number of years to get tenure from 3 to 4. Yeah, that’ll break the back of the teacher’s union.) Both are supporters of gun control, Amnesty for illegal immigrants, and massive Federal spending in their own states. (BTW: New Jersey’s economic performance under Christie: No so great.

2. Both gained notoriety by dealing with natural disasters. Both Christie and Dukakis burnished their “leadership” credentials during natural disasters. Dukakis went on TV during the Blizzard of ‘78 to deliver weather bulletins. Christie famously hugged Obama in the aftermath of “Superstorm Sandy” and yelled at Republicans to pass a massive “Relief” Bill that contained more pork-barrel spending than actual hurricane relief.

3. Both had rivals who were taken out by bad judgment. Before the 1988 primaries, the Democrat frontrunner was a good-looking senator who was the darling of his party; Gary Hart of Colorado. Hart took himself out of the race after being caught en flagrante with Jessica Hahn. Going into 2016, the Republican Party also had an attractive, much adored senator who was the clear frontrunner… until Marco Rubio got caught in bed with Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin.

4. The Republican Primary Field of 2016 is a Bizarro-World version of the 1988 Democrat Primary Field. Christie, like Dukakis, may face in the primaries: an ideological stalwart beloved by the activist base (Jesse Jackson/Ted Cruz), a congressman with deep ties to the party establishment but little appeal outside of it (Dick Gephardt/Paul Ryan); and a senator representing a political dynasty (Al Gore/Rand Paul). Should he prevail, Christie is likely to emerge as a candidate with an unenthusiastic party behind him, just like Dukakis in 1988.

5. Christie has his own Willie Hortons in the form of Abel Hernandez, Andy Maguino, and Jose Luis Galindo-Sanchez… illegal immigrants benefiting from New Jersey’s “sanctuary cities” who killed Americans. Maguino, notably, was sentenced to probation and community service after running down an old lady in his car and fleeing the scene. [Link]

6. Like Dukakis, Christie will also have his “tank” moment. For Dukakis, his desperation to prove he was not a weak-on-defense northeastern liberal led to a photo op riding around in a tank and looking like… a weak-on-defense northeastern liberal riding around in a tank. Christie has to do something to disavow his post -Sandy bromance with Obama. At some point, he is going to have to denounce his BFF, and in doing so, he is likely to end up looking very foolish because the gesture will be so transparently fake… like Dukakis in the tank.

7. Christie Will Need a Running Mate to Pick Up Voters His Party Is Losing. Dukakis picked Lloyd Bentsen as his running mate to reach out to “Reagan Democrats.” Christie will also have to choose a running mate more appealing than he is to a key voting bloc, in his case, women. He may choose someone like New Hampshire senator Kelly Ayotte; a northeastern moderate who shares his support for Amnesty and Gun Control.

8. Christie, Like Dukakis, will try and turn a negative personality trait into a positive. Dukakis tried to pass off dull detachment as “competence.” Christie tries to pass off being a jerk as “leadership.” The problem is that leadership and competence are just empty slogans. Bush 41 beat Dukakis by promising to continue Reagan’s policies; a promise he almost immediately broke by imposing massive tax increases, but “Read My Lips” got him into office, because he presented voters with something tangible – a continuation of Reagan Era prosperity. Dukakis lost, and Christie will lose, because neither man presents a compelling alternative to the person he did/will run against.

9. Both face opponents who are mediocre politicians riding the coat-tails of better politicians. If Christie is the Mike Dukakis of 2016, Hillary Clinton is the George H.W. Bush. Like Bush 41, she is the heir-apparent to a two-term president who wrought major changes to the country. Like Bush 41, she is an awkward campaigner with a grating speaking style.

10. Like Dukakis, Christie will lose massively. A lot of people are claiming Chris Christie is “the only man who can beat Hillary.” Most of those people want Hillary to win. Hillary will win by promising a return to the era of her husband’s presidency; and a large number of voters are incapable of critical thinking beyond “the last time a Clinton was in office, I was doing all right.”

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79 Comments

  1. Your comparison of Chris Christie with Michael Dukakis has a lot to commend it. Christie´s embrace of Obama before the elections this past November and his attitude about not giving a damn about them doomed Romney´s chances considering he was the first to endorse Romney and gave the keynote speech ar the Republican Convention. That embrace may very welcome back to haunt him and will submarine his primary campaign. I do not see him gaining the nomination. Hillary will have an uphill battle if the Republicans keep playing ¨what difference does that make?¨ We still haven´t gotten to the bottom of Benghazi and it might very well be her Waterloo.

    You underestimate Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz has a track record in Texas State government before his election to the U.S. Senate. The only thing Jesse Jackson has going for him is his mouth. As for his primary campaign the nearest thing political that he had was his Rainbow Coalition,PUSH, and other sundry civil rights activites. In spite of his membership in the SCLC, Abernathy Iis the leader. The TEA party will be influential in getting Senator Ted Cruz nominated and if doesn´t get elected for the lack of support from the The Establishment; The Republican Party will go the way of the Whigs.

    Comment by Roberto — September 16, 2013 @ 12:31 pm - September 16, 2013

  2. I agree with Roberto, and do not think that Christie will even come close to winning the 2016 nomination. For all the reasons in #1, plus Cristie has just plain worn out his welcome with the vast majority of conservative voters, and libertarians that often vote republican.

    I also believe that the “Tea Party” and all of it’s iterations should not be discounted and marginalized. The future of their impact on 2016 can’t be even pondered until after the 2014 elections. We have 435 house seats, 33 senate seats, and 36 governorships up for grabs, and my bet is the “Tea Party” types will play a major role between now and November 2014 in a great many primaries and final votes. My guess is that they learned a big lesson after 2010, thinking thay could sit back and watch obama crumble – 2012 demonstrated the folly of that thinking. My other guess is that with the “Tea Party,” yesteryears “Silent Majority” of 1969 fame, we have our best shot at slowing down our lemming like run over the cliff of progressivism.

    Comment by mixitup — September 16, 2013 @ 2:01 pm - September 16, 2013

  3. This is a very clever and apt comparison, V the K. I hope that Roberto and mixitup are correct and that Christie will never emerge as a leading candidate for the nomination in 2016. I always thought Romney was the best of a weak field in 2012, but in 2016, I think there will be some candidates who are much stronger than Christie.

    Comment by Kurt — September 16, 2013 @ 2:54 pm - September 16, 2013

  4. Wonderful post!

    You can count me as a fomer Christie supporter. Not only did I vote for him, I would also tell those (union members all) who would bash him that I thought he was doing a job that needed to be done – get rid of the unions’ strangle-hold on NJ.

    THEN he brown-nosed Obama down the Jersey Shore! Christie is a back-stabbing f*cker who needs to get out of the way of other, better qualified, truly fiscal-conservative candidates.

    Oh, BTW, the Jersey shore did NOT get enough federal money to help rebuild; so his brown-nosing did NOT pay off. He is an idiot!

    If he ends up being the GOP’s candidate I might actually end up voting for the Democrat (shudder the thought)

    Comment by Charles — September 16, 2013 @ 4:07 pm - September 16, 2013

  5. Like Dukakis, Christie will lose massively. A lot of people are claiming Chris Christie is “the only man who can beat Hillary.” Most of those people want Hillary to win.

    The same thing occurred in Australia, with people eagerly advocating former Leader of the Opposition Malcolm Turnbull as the only one who could beat a resurgent Kevin Rudd. They turned out to be mostly Labor Party stooges and a few conservatives who panicked in the darkest hour. The Liberals (as they call themselves, though they are actually centre-right conservatives) held their course and Abbott cleaned Rudd’s clock to the tune of 16 seats in a 150-seat Lower House.

    Abbott had come incredibly close to winning in 2010 – that the Coalition kept him on as leader is credit to their rationality. Unfortunately your presidential candidates don’t engage directly on the floor of the House, so direct comparisons are impossible, but the next nearest thing would be Boehner stepping up to the plate to challenge whoever the Democrats pick, whether it actually is Hillary or someone else. I might have thought well of Mrs Clinton back in 2008, but after Benghazi she should be grateful not to have died with her back to a brick wall.

    Comment by perturbed — September 16, 2013 @ 7:23 pm - September 16, 2013

  6. I’m curious why you believe Christie will win? If I had to make a prediction now I would see the party coalescing more around a Rand Paul or a Ted Cruz. It seems as though Christie has burned too many bridges. The party has run 2 “winnable” moderates and lost in both ’12 and ’08. 🙁

    Working within the party and seeing polls (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/11/new-poll-shows-republicans-flocking-toward-libertarian-principles/) I’ve seen Republicans of all factions sick of losing and ready to rebuild their coalition around some liberty minded folk to at least be able to appeal to a broader base of moderate and independent voters. The fundies realize they no longer have the numbers and I think are ready to make some concessions instead of letting the country slide further to the left.

    Good work on the analysis though. I’m sure it took a lot of knowledge of history to make such detailed comparisons. 🙂

    Comment by Tim in MT — September 16, 2013 @ 9:02 pm - September 16, 2013

  7. Strongly disagree.
    In recent history, radicals like Ted Cruz or Rand Paul NEVER ran and won a national election and never will
    Bush II? No
    Bush I – No
    Reagan – No
    FYI Regan did the same thing for which you now condemn Christie & Rubio:
    – He signed gun control and openly & strongly supported it
    – He legalized abortion
    – He gave Amnesty to 3 million immigrants
    – He spent like a drunk a sailor

    Sorry V, but your brand of conservatism is too extreme and unelectable. It’s a national election loser.

    Christie might be the only one who can stop HRC and knowing what I know about him, he would have my vote over her.

    But HRC would have my vote over Rand or Cruz.

    Comment by mike — September 16, 2013 @ 9:46 pm - September 16, 2013

  8. It is very disappointing that in the United States of America — the place to which most young people from oppressive social democracies yearn to come to make a life for themselves — support of limited government and economic freedom are seen as extreme conservatism and radical politics. This is a very different America from what the world thinks it is — still a freer place than any in the world, but only by a margin.

    mike, I hope you do realize that the world you want only works as long as the math holds — i.e., there are more $$ coming into the system than $$ you are taking out of it. As long as it holds, you can fleece people who have earning potential to pay for the “services” you believe people demand (why do these people believe they earned these “services” anyway? who do they think pays for them?). There comes a point — it may take decades and sometimes centuries but it seems to happen with unerring consistency — when politicians cannot fleece people enough to pay for all the promises they’ve made to get elected. This is the story of developed world — aging population, huge sovereign debt, massive youth unemployment, low innovation.

    Comment by Jane Austen — September 16, 2013 @ 10:28 pm - September 16, 2013

  9. Oh, littlelettermike, you are so cute when you puff yourself up like a bantum rooster and crow.

    radicals like Ted Cruz or Rand Paul NEVER ran and won a national election and never will

    The Republican losers for the Presidency are: John C. Fremont; James G. Blaine; Benjamin Harrison; William Taft; Charles E. Hughes; Herbert Hoover; Alfred M. Landon; Wendell L. Willkie; Thomas E. Dewey; Richard Nixon; Barry M. Goldwater; Gerald Ford; George H. W. Bush; Bob Dole; John McCain; Mitt Romney.

    Which of these are “radicals like Ted Cruz or Rand Paul”? Please specify the characteristics which distinguish each of the designees you finger as being a radical.

    Thank you. Not a soul in the world expects you respond as you are so confused by the task that you can not even understand request.

    Comment by heliotrope — September 16, 2013 @ 10:44 pm - September 16, 2013

  10. The funny part, heliotrope, is that the pathetic mike thinks we don’t remember how much he and his fellow gay bigots screamed that Reagan was an “extremist”.

    Just like they screamed Romney was an “extremist”, just like they screamed McCain was an “extremist”, etc. etc.

    Romney was again right. 47%-er parasites like mike will only vote for more welfare, more handouts, more punishing those who work so that mike doesn’t have to.

    Hillary! is exactly that. She is a welfare pimp, an idiot who will promise mike and his fellow parasites more handouts and scream that anyone who votes against her hates women. It is stupid and imbecilic, and parasite mike will buy it just like he did Obama’s lies about Romney.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — September 16, 2013 @ 11:20 pm - September 16, 2013

  11. That is the perverse state of our politics in 2013. Trillion dollar deficits, spying on American citizens, using the IRS to bully political opponents, record food stamp levels, and the Government collecting data on people’s private sex lives are “mainstream.” Belief in individual liberty, fiscally responsible Government, and privacy rights are now “extremist” positions.

    Comment by V the K — September 17, 2013 @ 12:07 am - September 17, 2013

  12. Based on the present political terrain, I fear that Hillary will win in 2016 against any GOP candidate…and Christie will wait til 2020 to challenge Hillary.

    1. I think that Christie will wait until his 2nd-term as NJ Governor to challenge for the GOP nomination.
    2. I do not see any GOP potential candidates who can win both the traditional GOP states and the enough purple states to will in the Electoral College against Hillary AND Bill Clinton. Just not going to happen. McCain and Romney were bland, not-exciting candidates chosen out of a bland and unexciting crowd of weak candidates. Cruz, Jindal, Ryan just don’t have “it”. Palin? **shudder** Perry? **dbl-shudder**

    Sadly for the politically-orthodox, purely-conservative credentials on their own can’t win the Electoral College. A winning GOP national candidate has to win-over a sufficient-number of “Reagan Democrats” to win in the purple states. Orthodoxy can win the GOP statehouses and seats in both Houses…but not the White House. It’s not political philosophy that wins the Electoral College, it’s demographic flexibility and some compromise that appeals across traditional political boundaries…you can not win the Electoral College without appealing to some moderate Democrats.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — September 17, 2013 @ 2:10 am - September 17, 2013

  13. Ted B. (Charging Rhino),

    You state that, ¨Orthodoxy can win the GOP statehouses and seats in both houses.¨ Why not in the Electoral College? Isn´t it also expected that those GOP governors deliver their states to the nominee? Granted California and New York have a large representation, but it is dwindling as many relocate to other states. Their representation will drop if we don´t give amnesty to illegals who´ll illegally cast their votes for the Democrat. Remember, in JFK´s time Texas was a blue state that has become red. As TEA Party members in other states sell the platform of individual responsiblity, smaller government, less taxes,(almost everybody´s favorite) more states will turn red. Colorado is on the way.

    Comment by Roberto — September 17, 2013 @ 1:02 pm - September 17, 2013

  14. V – Looks like some of your links didn’t make it through. Send me a list (or perhaps your original) and I would be pleased to fix them.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — September 17, 2013 @ 1:50 pm - September 17, 2013

  15. HRC will not go unchallenged.The Benghazi incident, especially, ¨What difference does it make?¨when played enough by the opposition, from with in and with out, will do her in. They can pull up this gem from the 2008 campaign, ¨It´s three o´clock in the morning. Who is qualifiend (?) to answer the call?¨ Where was she at three o´clock in the morning when the phones from Libya rang on September 12th.?

    There are some hungry Democrats who won´t want to wait for 2020, like Governor Martin O´Malley from Maryland, and the Democrat who could get the crossover votes, against a RINO, Senator Joe Manchin. from West Virginia. Does Janet Napolitano have aspirations for higher office?Could Colin Powell be persuaded to become a Democrat and throw his hat in the ring?

    Comment by Roberto — September 17, 2013 @ 2:29 pm - September 17, 2013

  16. The comparison as you placed it is a good one. There are things missing from it. Reagan left a booming economy… Barry will not. Its the economy, stupid and if the GOP candidate an enunciate an economic vision …The Dems will have to defend Obama and their rule for the last eight years. That will be a tough sell.

    Comment by Bob K — September 17, 2013 @ 4:46 pm - September 17, 2013

  17. Your comparison is ok b ut you left a few things out. Reagan left a booming economy..Barry leaves one in tatters. The Dems will have to defend their stewardship of the country for eight years, a task that GHW Bush was easily able to do. The Dems will be very hard pressed to make their case.

    Comment by Bob K — September 17, 2013 @ 4:51 pm - September 17, 2013

  18. I actually don’t think Hillary will try riding Obama’s coat tails. Anything is possible, however I just don’t see Obama rebounding anytime between now and 2016. He has no coat tails and the frustrating thing is that Hillary will distance herself, maybe even blatantly throw Obama under the bus and people are going to believe it. The Hillary/Obama relationship has always been perceived as tepid and no one ever really beleived them when they said they had a good relationship with him as president and her as secretary of state.

    The bulk of her career has been vetted in 2008 so my guess is that 2016 will examine her accomplishments since then, which are, well, lacking. What will be interesting to watch is what Hillary has to say about healthcare, or rather seeing how Democrats react to what she has to say. Obamacare has been God’s gift to America for them and Hillary will walk in likely still beleiving in a single-payer system and seeing as how Obamacare is turning out to be a great big disaster as conservatives warned, will Democrats embrace Hillary’s leftist critique of their beloved Obamacare or will they cling to what they fought so bitterly for?

    Comment by Jimmy — September 17, 2013 @ 5:01 pm - September 17, 2013

  19. Your comparison is ok but you left a few things out. Reagan left a booming economy..Barry leaves one in tatters. The Dems will have to defend their stewardship of the country for eight years, a task that GHW Bush was easily able to do. The Dems will be very hard pressed to make their case.

    Comment by Bob K — September 17, 2013 @ 5:02 pm - September 17, 2013

  20. Reagan left a booming economy..Barry leaves one in tatters.

    My first draft addressed that. Reagan set the economy on course for long term prosperity. Obama set the economy on a course for long-term decline. Reagan greatly increased America’s globa prestige; Obama has utterly destroyed it. Because I thought that took the focus away from the Christie/Dukakis parallels, I replaced it with the single acknowledgement that both Reagan and Obama were strongly ideological and wrought major changes on the country.

    Comment by V the K — September 17, 2013 @ 7:15 pm - September 17, 2013

  21. One minor correction – the bimbo associated with Sen. Gary Hart (D-CO) was Donna Rice, not Jessica Hahn.

    Hahn was the bimbo who played around with Jim Bakker. Just FYI.

    Then again, it’s hard to tell one vagina apart from the other.

    Yes, I went there.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — September 17, 2013 @ 7:17 pm - September 17, 2013

  22. Are the Clintoon’s obsessed with running toward something or away from themselves?

    They have grifted themselves into 1% status. They are aging. Hillary can not get control of her hair or her narrative. Chelsea is a carbuncle. Bill just wants to be adored and Hillary just wants to throw her weight around.

    Is this something this nation craves, needs or is due as national punishment?

    littlelettermike is all wee-wee’d up over “radicals” who hide under his bed, in his closet and bite his buns when he squats to poop. So, what, pray tell, do the Clintoon’s do for littlelettermike and his ilk?

    Comment by heliotrope — September 17, 2013 @ 7:24 pm - September 17, 2013

  23. You’re right, Pete, my error. And the worst part is… I googled it to check because I wasn’t sure either… and got the wrong answer.

    Comment by V the K — September 17, 2013 @ 9:06 pm - September 17, 2013

  24. I realize I’m probably in the minority here, but believe it or not I don’t think Hillary will actually run. She knows how high her negatives are, and won’t risk the humiliation. Just my $.02.

    Comment by Bastiat Fan — September 17, 2013 @ 9:23 pm - September 17, 2013

  25. Reagan left a booming economy..Barry leaves one in tatters.

    Well, Americans no longer care about the economy; they only care about birth control, whether or not the president once put his dog on the roof of his car, and what kinds of welfare benefits the president can promise them (unfortunately, they also no longer care about math). So, while the economy is far worse, the state of what Americans really care about is perceived to be good.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — September 17, 2013 @ 11:49 pm - September 17, 2013

  26. It isn’t possible for Hillary! NOT to run, Bastiat Fan.

    The only thing the Obama Party has left after five years of Obama is to scream “voter suppression”, “war on women”, and any piece of dirt or mud they can fling to smear conservatives.

    There is nothing left of the Obama Party brand. It took the devil’s bargain of becoming a personality cult based on black skin, and has become an idiotic caricature of itself, a party full of people who can do nothing but scream about their “right” to rule and call anyone who disagrees with them a racist.

    What is starting to destroy the Obama Party and Obama himself right now is peoples’ realization that Obama does NOT care, that he does NOT share their values, that it doesn’t matter how awful the situation is, and that the only thing he and the Obama Party are interested in is the accretion of state power.

    Yesterday’s speech was a classic. Schools on lockdown, flights at Reagan National grounded, people laying bleeding and dying in the street, and Obama goes on a Nuremburg-esque rant about the Jewish Republican menace to society. He didn’t care; he was there to harangue, belittle, and destroy his political opposition, and the shootings were an irritating and inconvenient detail.

    And bigoted partisans like littlelettermike ate it up.

    That is what Hillary! is riding on. She knows that there are bigots like littlelettermike who hate and loathe all Republicans, who agree with Obama and her that Republicans are evil and malevolent, and who will do anything she says as long as she bashes Republicans and screams how conservatives should be sent to the gas chambers for blocking the glorious progressive Reich.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — September 17, 2013 @ 11:56 pm - September 17, 2013

  27. I stand by my prediction. Hillary will be the nominee because she is entitled to it; that’s how Democrat politics works. And she will be president because America is an Idiocracy where elections are determined by turning out low information voters.

    Many scoffed at my prediction that the SCOAMF would be elected in 2012 because of scorched Earth attacks against Mitt Romney coupled by GOTV of low info voters (The Harry Reid Campaign Model). I was right then. I’ll be proven right again unless Hillary suffers an anuerysm. (A real one, this time). And even that may not sink her, given the sad condition of the electorate.

    Comment by V the K — September 18, 2013 @ 11:04 am - September 18, 2013

  28. V the K

    I stand by my prediction #15. HRC will not go unchallenged. During her stint as Secretary of State she has accumulated baggage, particularly Benghazi with all the ignored requests for more security, the lack of sending assets during the attack and her famous, ¨What difference does that make now?¨ There are Democrats who don´t want to wait until 2020.
    Among them, Governor Martin O´Malley, Senator Joe Manchin, could do what neither Hillary nor O´Malley can do, that is attract independent and crossover voters. Since General Colin Powell, twice endorsed Obama, can the DNC convince him to run as a Democrat? Janet Napolitano is another who comes to mind. New York Governor Cuomo might also have aspirations. The Obama brain trust just might back Rahm Emanuel. It would be the first time a mayor of a major city has thrown a hat in the ring. The Democrats don´t lack for possibilites. It is foolish to think that HRC has a lock on the nomination. That´s what I see in my crystal ball.

    Comment by Roberto — September 18, 2013 @ 1:01 pm - September 18, 2013

  29. Hmmmm….
    Rahm Emmanual is an interesting choice; as a compromise candidate acceptable and with close ties to Both the Obama and Clinton camps.

    His brother Ari is Hollywood Royalty, and his father was a member of the paramilitary Irgun Israeli Terrorist Freedom-fighter Group…and Rahm was a civilian volunteer in the IDF…so the Zionist-wing of the Party can’t question his loyalty to Israel. What’s not to love??…

    Plus everyone of the Hill hates him…

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — September 18, 2013 @ 1:49 pm - September 18, 2013

  30. If no-morals Rahm Emmanuel can team up with the amoral David Axelrod, the two of them can run a scorched earth campaign that would be a Che Guevara wet dream.

    Progressives, the welfare crowd and the fans of victimhood and blaming everyone but themselves will go all slobbery and love ultimate fighting, no-holds-barred trashing, lying and character destruction politics.

    The Republicans can be counted on to field some dapper dandy to smirk at Rahm who will ride around the country striking poses and reassuring the country club blue bloods that he will not breach protocol for something as tacky as winning.

    Comment by heliotrope — September 18, 2013 @ 2:37 pm - September 18, 2013

  31. The Republicans can be counted on to field some dapper dandy to smirk at Rahm who will ride around the country striking poses and reassuring the country club blue bloods that he will not breach protocol for something as tacky as winning.

    Well, Jeb *is*running.

    Comment by V the K — September 18, 2013 @ 5:02 pm - September 18, 2013

  32. Well, we could forgive him for marrying a woman and throw our support behind George P. Bush.

    Just saying. . . . .

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — September 18, 2013 @ 5:28 pm - September 18, 2013

  33. Roberto: If a mayor runs, it’s going to be Julian Castro, so that the Democrats can say that they’ve clinched the Latino vote forever.

    Comment by Paul — September 18, 2013 @ 7:04 pm - September 18, 2013

  34. @perturbed

    You make a fine point here. The GOP here in the US should take example of Australia’s Liberal Party which recently won in a huge landslide against the Labor Party. Tony Abbott in particular impresses me a lot the more I hear of him.

    Comment by Jonathan Gillispie — September 18, 2013 @ 7:37 pm - September 18, 2013

  35. There is just SOOO much wrong with this post. I will comment on each one as as presented:

    1. Christie and Dukakis are both blue-state governors with mediocre records. Both campaigned for governor as reformers, but achieved little in the way of actual reforms while in office. (For all Christie’s screaming at schoolteachers, all he’s really accomplished is increasing the number of years to get tenure from 3 to 4. Yeah, that’ll break the back of the teacher’s union.) Both are supporters of gun control, Amnesty for illegal immigrants, and massive Federal spending in their own states. (BTW: New Jersey’s economic performance under Christie: No so great.

    Having a mediocre record has not been much of an impediment to many Presidential winners on both sides of the fence – Jimmy Carter was a mediocre governor of Georgia, Clinton wasn’t considered a great governor of Arkansas, G.W. Bush’s Texas stint had holes in it, and, to put the icing on the cake, even Ronald Reagan had, it put it kindly, a mediocre record as the governor of California.
    Summary on Reagan’s Legacy as Governor

    His legacy as a conservative – and as a successful conservative – governor was “mixed.”

    He was unable to keep his campaign promises to reduce taxes and the state budget, but this was largely because such actions were probably impossible at the time. Instead, he instituted the largest increases in the state’s history.
    Most policies he supported were negative, requiring reduction or elimination of programs without alternative proposals.
    Passed the most stringent air and water standards in the nation.

    Reagan lacked the skills or experience to effectively deal with lawmakers.

    I could elaborate, but you get the picture. On the economic record of Christie, I’ll comment on that at the end of this critique.

    2. Both gained notoriety by dealing with natural disasters…. Dukakis went on TV during the Blizzard of ‘78 to deliver weather bulletins. Christie famously hugged Obama in the aftermath of “Superstorm Sandy” and yelled at Republicans to pass a massive “Relief” Bill that contained more pork-barrel spending than actual hurricane relief.

    The problem with this critique, is that while Dukakis may have gained national attention as a result of his actions during the 78 blizzard, Christie had the public eye long before hurricane Sandy. On the Federal aid, it’s convenient when Conservatives don’t mention that other Conservative governors take aid when given. Texas and Governor Perry, I’m looking your way! Another case of “Do as I say, not as I do” from Rick Perry.

    3. Both had rivals who were taken out by bad judgment. Before the 1988 primaries, the Democrat frontrunner was a good-looking senator who was the darling of his party; Gary Hart of Colorado. Hart took himself out of the race after being caught en flagrante with Jessica Hahn. Going into 2016, the Republican Party also had an attractive, much adored senator who was the clear frontrunner… until Marco Rubio got caught in bed with Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin.

    This is just silly. It’s 2013… There have been no primaries. There IS NO FRONTRUNNER! This is like saying the San Francisco 49ers are the favorites to win the Super Bowl… in April, before the NFL draft or a single pre-season ball has been snapped.

    4. The Republican Primary Field of 2016 is a Bizarro-World version of the 1988 Democrat Primary Field. Christie, like Dukakis, may face in the primaries: an ideological stalwart beloved by the activist base (Jesse Jackson/Ted Cruz), a congressman with deep ties to the party establishment but little appeal outside of it (Dick Gephardt/Paul Ryan); and a senator representing a political dynasty (Al Gore/Rand Paul). Should he prevail, Christie is likely to emerge as a candidate with an unenthusiastic party behind him, just like Dukakis in 1988.

    See my comment above. It’s 2013…. Blah, blah, blah. Plus, in 2005 was anyone going on record to predict Barack Obama would run and win the White House. Those were some great Vegas odds there.

    5. Christie has his own Willie Hortons in the form of Abel Hernandez, Andy Maguino, and Jose Luis Galindo-Sanchez… illegal immigrants benefiting from New Jersey’s “sanctuary cities” who killed Americans. Maguino, notably, was sentenced to probation and community service after running down an old lady in his car and fleeing the scene. [Link]

    This one might have some legs. Former Ark Governor Mike Huckabee, who had had his eye on the Presidential prize in the previous election cycle, would have dead in the water had he run in 2012, due to the Seattle area shooting of four police officers by Maurice Clemmens, who was granted clemency by Governor Huckabee.

    6. Like Dukakis, Christie will also have his “tank” moment. For Dukakis, his desperation to prove he was not a weak-on-defense northeastern liberal led to a photo op riding around in a tank and looking like… a weak-on-defense northeastern liberal riding around in a tank. Christie has to do something to disavow his post -Sandy bromance with Obama. At some point, he is going to have to denounce his BFF, and in doing so, he is likely to end up looking very foolish because the gesture will be so transparently fake… like Dukakis in the tank.

    More pure speculation. Christie is a smart, cagey politician. Plus, after Iraq and Afghanistan and Lybia and the general publics push back against even sending a few bombs Syria’s way, and the Ron / Rand Paul stance of less-interventionism gaining ground among the rank and file, being “strong on defense” may not have the same luster it has had in the past.

    7. Christie Will Need a Running Mate to Pick Up Voters His Party Is Losing. Dukakis picked Lloyd Bentsen as his running mate to reach out to “Reagan Democrats.” Christie will also have to choose a running mate more appealing than he is to a key voting bloc, in his case, women. He may choose someone like New Hampshire senator Kelly Ayotte; a northeastern moderate who shares his support for Amnesty and Gun Control.

    Given Christy’s loud and bombastic ways, I doubt the VP is going to get much publicity, unless he picks Sarah Palin. And, seeing that there are no primaries yet, this again is pure speculation and not based on facts of any kind. See my replies to both points 3 and 4.

    8. Christie, Like Dukakis, will try and turn a negative personality trait into a positive. Dukakis tried to pass off dull detachment as “competence.” Christie tries to pass off being a jerk as “leadership.” The problem is that leadership and competence are just empty slogans. Bush 41 beat Dukakis by promising to continue Reagan’s policies; a promise he almost immediately broke by imposing massive tax increases, but “Read My Lips” got him into office, because he presented voters with something tangible – a continuation of Reagan Era prosperity. Dukakis lost, and Christie will lose, because neither man presents a compelling alternative to the person he did/will run against.
    9. Both face opponents who are mediocre politicians riding the coat-tails of better politicians. If Christie is the Mike Dukakis of 2016, Hillary Clinton is the George H.W. Bush. Like Bush 41, she is the heir-apparent to a two-term president who wrought major changes to the country. Like Bush 41, she is an awkward campaigner with a grating speaking style.

    Christie, Like Dukakis, will try and turn a negative personality trait into a positive.” Well DUH! Every politician is faced with that.

    Bush 41 beat Dukakis by promising to continue Reagan’s policies; a promise he almost immediately broke by imposing massive tax increases, but “Read My Lips” got him into office” Not quite accurate. The budgets for 1989 and 19090 had no tax increases.

    10. Like Dukakis, Christie will lose massively. A lot of people are claiming Chris Christie is “the only man who can beat Hillary.” Most of those people want Hillary to win. Hillary will win by promising a return to the era of her husband’s presidency; and a large number of voters are incapable of critical thinking beyond “the last time a Clinton was in office, I was doing all right.”

    It’s 2013… We don’t even know if Hillary is going to run. Plus, who knows if she will even be the choice if she does. See criticisms 3 and 4.

    ———–

    Now, back to point number1… On those weak economic numbers.

    Chris Christie might not be your favorite Conservative, because he’s squishy on social issues and he — gasp — hugged Barrack Milhouse Obama, but he has been a very steady Fiscal Conservative. Lets go through the check list. Has he:

    Not raised taxes?

    Yep

    Forced government unions to accept pension and pay reductions?

    Yep.

    Given large tax breaks to businesses and the wealthy?

    Uh huh.

    Actually deleted and dismantled a government agency (something that’s often talked about by is in reality actually pretty hard to do)…

    Yep.

    Expanded the charter school program in the state?

    Yep.

    Limited property taxes increases?

    You know the answer.

    Austerity?

    Sure.

    And yet, despite all these very Conservative reforms that Governor Christie has managed to push through in his state, the link provided by V the K show the New Jersey economy is, despite that, still in the tank.

    What gives?

    A phrase Rush Limbaugh has used quite a bit in his years as a political commentator goes something like this: “Conservatism Has Worked Everywhere It’s Been Tried”…

    Well, as has been accidentally shown by the Tea Party Conservative V the K…. Um…

    No. It doesn’t.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 19, 2013 @ 6:12 pm - September 19, 2013

  36. Comment by Sonicfrog — September 19, 2013 @ 6:12 pm

    Let me guess…

    You’re back here because the silence at your, er, ‘blog’ is deafening, right?
    You should go back to your joint and launch another whine and cheese (and piss and moan) party about how trashed GayPatriot is, and how mean and nasty so many of the commenters here are, and how at least one of them should be permanently banned.

    At least you can count on 2 or 3 responses with a post like that.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 8:53 pm - September 20, 2013

  37. And didn’t you, some time ago, stomp out of here in a fit of high dudgeon, promising to NEVER return?

    Ever heard of the word integrity?

    Uh huh. That’s what I thought.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 8:56 pm - September 20, 2013

  38. But come back one more time and regale us with a detailed recitation of that voluminous list that’s stuffed in your back pocket (or elsewhere) of all the places where LIBERAL and LEFTIST economic policies have worked…

    We’d love to hear it.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 9:00 pm - September 20, 2013

  39. So, Sonic Frog is offering up Chris Christie… who has cut no taxes, repealed no regulations, enacted no entitlement reforms, and spent lavishly from the Federal Pork Spigot … as an example of conservatism failing?

    Comment by V the K — September 20, 2013 @ 9:32 pm - September 20, 2013

  40. It’s also amusing that he criticizes an obviously speculative post for ‘speculation,’ but such are the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel.

    Comment by V the K — September 20, 2013 @ 9:37 pm - September 20, 2013

  41. You’re back here because the silence at your, er, ‘blog’ is deafening, right?

    I don’t write my blog to try and get comments. If I did, I’d write the type of really nasty and stupid stuff that gets attention, either constantly bash Obama, which is easy, or bash all Republicans and say somethinglike this post on facebook:

    Just a quick shout out to the Republicans tonight! FUCK YOU! No health care-No food stamps…..stop all of the perks that you suck up every day and live by the same rules that you think we should be living by and we can then have a conversation. Until then..FUCK YOU!

    Which got tons of replies.

    I don’t blog to mine for comments, I do it for the pleasure of writing. If someone likes it fine. If they don’t fine. Personally, I’m kind of glad I don’t have very many comments on my blog. I don’t have any pressure or feel I have to cater to anyone. I post most of my stuff on facebook, and get plenty of response there. Some agree. Some disagree. I’m fine with that.

    But come back one more time and regale us with a detailed recitation of that voluminous list that’s stuffed in your back pocket (or elsewhere) of all the places where LIBERAL and LEFTIST economic policies have worked…

    We’d love to hear it.

    That’s a “denying the middle” fallacy. There are other option out there… Well, there would be, if both sides didn’t have a strange hold on the political process.

    Both parties are horrible on economics, which is why I’ve not voted for either since 2000. The nice thing about having a blog, is I can go back and see what my thoughts were for almost nine years. Here’s what I wrote in 2005:

    Now Democrats are not exactly known for their spend-thrift tendencies. Kerry’s proposed budget was even more massive than Bush’s. This is one of the main reasons why I didn’t vote for either one. But, if the reporting on this pans out, this disaster is going to settle squarely on George Bush’s shoulders.

    The Republican party is surely, and deservedly, going to pay dearly for their fiscal mismanagement.

    That doesn’t sound like I’m endorsing the liberal play-book on economics, does it. I didn’t then, and I don’t now.

    PS. If I said I wouldn’t be back, and it turns out I did come back… And THAT somehow shows a lack of integrity, yet the guy who refused to apologize after falsely accusing me of wanting Dan to kill himself has tons of integrity… I don’t think it means what you think it means.

    And interesting that you didn’t directly address any of the points in my comment, but instead sued the “shoot the messenger” fallacy to attack me… Could it be that, even though you don’t like me, you agree I’m right?

    After all, if we’re going by NDT’s playbook, if you don’t specifically denounce something, you automatically agree with it!!… Which BTW is how I ended up getting accused of wanting Dan to kill himself. 🙂

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 20, 2013 @ 9:48 pm - September 20, 2013

  42. …but such are the scrapings at the bottom of the barrel.

    Comment by V the K — September 20, 2013 @ 9:37 pm

    It’s a bit of desperation on his part; he knows he’ll get smacked for his drivel, and he uses this to launch another round of “GayPatriot sure is a disaster, and those conservatives sure are mean!” posts at his hovel.

    Bottom of the barrel…that’s exactly where he is.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 10:05 pm - September 20, 2013

  43. So, SonicFrog’s “Refutation” of my Christie as potential Dukakis consists of:

    1. “But Reagan…”
    2. “But … Rick Perry!”
    3. “Your speculative post is full of speculation!”
    4. Ibid
    5. “I grudingly admit you may be right.”
    6. “I have totally missed the point of your comparison.”
    7. “Your speculative post contains speculation.”
    8. “Your comparison is valid, which proves you are wrong.”
    9. “Once again, I have missed the point of your comparison.”
    10. “Stop speculating in your speculative post!”

    Then he goes on to list Christie’s non-accomplishments, and insist that the failure of a northeastern moderate Republican to achieve growth and economic reforms proves the Tea Party sucks.

    Yeah, that’s his thesis.

    Comment by V the K — September 20, 2013 @ 10:11 pm - September 20, 2013

  44. So, Sonic Frog is offering up Chris Christie… who has cut no taxes, repealed no regulations, enacted no entitlement reforms, and spent lavishly from the Federal Pork Spigot … as an example of conservatism failing?

    V, the following is from your own link describing how Christie’s policies have failed. Quote:

    Christie’s economic philosophy is a simple one: Cut taxes and they will come. So he sharply increased the broad-based business tax cuts signed by Corzine, bringing the total to about $600 million a year over the next three years.

    It’s not like he didn’t try to cut more. From CC’s wiki::

    Christie originally proposed a 10 percent income tax cut for all residents of the state, but he later targeted his proposal for people earning less than $400,000 per year, and it would be in the form of an income tax credit equal to 10 percent of their property taxes, capped at $10,000 (phased in over four years).[62] The Democratic-controlled Legislature has not as of yet implemented that plan.

    So yeah, he did cut taxes. And they were business taxes to boot.

    Christie signed into law a payroll tax cut that reduced funding of the Temporary Disability Insurance (TDI) fund by $190 million per year.”

    No entitlement reform?

    During his second year in office, Christie signed into law a payroll tax cut that reduced funding of the Temporary Disability Insurance (TDI) fund by $190 million per year.

    As far as using Federal money to recover from Sandy… OK. But as I pointed out earlier, the much more conservative Rick Perry has no problem with that either, and is (or was, don’t know it’s resolved) fought the Fed to give them money for a much smaller disaster.

    Let me ask you this – When the Wasach fault finally brakes, and destroys Salt Lake City, are conservatives going to bitch and moan when the state of Utah asks for Federal aid?

    I’m betting that would be a “No”. But admit, that is speculation.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 20, 2013 @ 10:24 pm - September 20, 2013

  45. Giving tax breaks to big businesses and not to the people sounds like cronyism, not tax reform. And it’s no different than what other liberal governers do. Martin O’Malley gave Lockheed Martin a massive tax break to stay in Maryland. Caterpillar got a huge tax break from Illinois. California lavishes tax incentives on well-connected businesses. That’s not the same as giving the people a tax cut.

    And, it’s not that he accepted Federal Disaster Aid, it’s that he attacked congressional Republicans for trying to take the pork out of the disaster aid.

    Comment by V the K — September 20, 2013 @ 10:47 pm - September 20, 2013

  46. Let take your assertion that Christie is an evil moderate Republican.

    Scott Walker is definitely more of the kind of Republican you prefer, complete with the policies your prefer as a “True Tea Party Conservative”….

    AND…..

    He’s not fairing much better.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 20, 2013 @ 11:14 pm - September 20, 2013

  47. He’s not fairing much better.

    This is but one small example of why we turn out low functioning idiots from our schools.

    The one who crafted this sentence is teaching them, albeit part-time (thank Heaven for small favors).

    Not to mention yet another round of bashing conservative politicians by this so-called ‘libertarian’.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 11:32 pm - September 20, 2013

  48. Did you miss the part where he DID try to get a tax cut of all the residents of New Jersey in my previous post?

    It’s not like he didn’t try. The Democrats shot it down.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 20, 2013 @ 11:32 pm - September 20, 2013

  49. The Democrats shot it down.

    You mean it was deep-sixed by the party that you align yourself with.

    I’m shocked.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 11:37 pm - September 20, 2013

  50. In other words: voted down by the people who’s policies you think work better than those championed by conservatives.

    You have a dizzying intellect.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 20, 2013 @ 11:40 pm - September 20, 2013

  51. In other words: voted down by the people who’s policies you think work better than those championed by conservatives.

    which part of they both suck do you not understand?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 21, 2013 @ 2:38 am - September 21, 2013

  52. Giving tax breaks to big businesses and not to the people sounds like cronyism

    Hmmm… Interesting that we agree on that. Yet look at every state where Conservatives are the dominant power… They all provide tax breaks for big companies.

    Texas did it.

    Indiana did it.

    Wisconsin did it.

    And, what do you know… Christie just signed an update to the business tax law that gives more to smaller businesses.

    That aside, since when is giving incentives to big business not a Conservative philosophy? Show me in the platform where it says Conservatives ae against giving tax breaks to big companies.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 21, 2013 @ 3:17 am - September 21, 2013

  53. Making assumptions about what I believe and then claiming your assumptions refute my argument does not refute my argument.

    Comment by V the K — September 21, 2013 @ 7:03 am - September 21, 2013

  54. Which part of “Republican is not synonymous with conservative in any way, shape, manner or form” do YOU not understand?

    You’ve attacked and derided actual conservative principles in the past, and continue that familiar behavior in this post, at a blog which you’ve been on a months-long harangue against from the safety of that echo chamber that you preside over. And since, both here and at ‘sonicfrog.net’ (AKA: ghost town) the record shows that you do this at a ratio of, roughly, 20:1 over anything liberal/leftist, it shows where your actual sympathies are.

    NDT has had you figured just right…and for a long time, too.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 21, 2013 @ 7:19 am - September 21, 2013

  55. And interesting that you didn’t directly address any of the points in my comment…

    V the K took care of that quite handily.

    Could it be that, even though you don’t like me, you agree I’m right?

    I hate to shatter your wet dream, but not only do I not agree that you’re right, I know that you’re wrong. And, to repeat, V the K saved me the trouble of pointing out the numerous occasions where that’s the case.

    Do the world a favor…stick to cleaning pools.
    You’re not nearly the grand thinker that you imagine yourself to be.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 21, 2013 @ 8:34 am - September 21, 2013

  56. And interesting that you didn’t directly address any of the points in my comment…

    V the K took care of that quite handily.

    Nope. When I typed that, V had not yet responded. And the response he gave in the interim at # 39 wasn’t exactly “handy”, as indicated by the need to post a better reply at comment # 43.

    Do the world a favor…stick to cleaning pools.

    Now THERE’S some of that deep thinking I’ve come to admire from you.

    On being a pool-guy. At least I have a job. And it’s mine. I own and run the business. When something better is acquired, I’ll fold up the business and do that something else. But unlike many who claim to know about running a business, I actually have experience doing so.

    Also, because I work, I don’t have the kind of time a few here apparently do to constantly comment and keep tabs on who said what…

    Hey, isn’t that NDT’s job anyway?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 22, 2013 @ 7:06 pm - September 22, 2013

  57. Also, because I work, I don’t have the kind of time a few here apparently do to constantly comment and keep tabs on who said what…

    1. You’re full of shiite; for the last several months, a large percentage of the posts at your blog are concerned wholly or in part with the content HERE (who said what to whom). This doesn’t include your pissy comments at any website maintained by other whiny GayPatriot refugees.

    2. On the latter: your continued pissing and crying about all things GayPatriot.

    In spite of your claim, it appears that you:
    1- have plenty of free time to comment/post, both here and elsewhere
    2- keep track of “who said what…” (here, for the most part).

    And in case you were wondering, but are too paranoid and stuck in your victim mentality to ask: your comment #52 was most likely held up because it contained multiple hyperlinks, NOT because you are being targeted for ‘special’ moderation. Go ahead, ask any of the mods…they’ll tell you.

    Are you and the ‘Phoenix Flyer’ ever going to grow up and stop your pissing and pouting about what goes on here?
    Both of you border on pathological on the subject.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 22, 2013 @ 8:15 pm - September 22, 2013

  58. In reverse order.

    2- keep track of “who said what…” (here, for the most part).

    If I have a beef with a specific person, I take note (duh).

    1- have plenty of free time to comment/post, both here and elsewhere

    As far as spending a bunch of time blogging on Sonicfrog, you might want to pay closer attention to the dates that I’ve posted something. In the last three months, the average is about a post every 4th day.

    That certainly doesn’t take very much time.

    I’ve probably commented here twenty times in the last three months, and most of those are multiple posts in the same thread.

    I’ve commented at Climate Etc. probably five in that slice of time.

    WUWT a few times.

    I used to spend more time on Facebook, but even that’s tapered off.

    I probably do sometimes spend more time on the nets than I should…. But I’ve got plenty of things to do. I have a life.

    So you can stop throwing spaghetti at the wall. It’s not sticking.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 23, 2013 @ 1:31 am - September 23, 2013

  59. # 9 Helio –

    This comment thread has become a battle of wits between SF & Jman So I will let Bill O’Reilly& Jennifer Rubin explain what I mean:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/09/22/who-is-helping-the-gop-in-the-senate/

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/09/20/fundraising-off-of-political-suicide/

    http://www.libertynews.com/2013/09/fox-news-bill-oreilly-calls-conservatives-fanatics-for-attempting-to-defund-obamacare/

    Comment by mike — September 23, 2013 @ 4:44 am - September 23, 2013

  60. you might want to pay closer attention to the dates that I’ve posted something. That certainly doesn’t take very much time.

    You and yours are not worth anywhere near the “(not) very much time” it would take to do this.

    I’ve probably commented here twenty times in the last three months, and most of those are multiple posts in the same thread.

    That’s been my ‘input’ here, as well.
    But since you have a permanent bug up your ass about this place, it probably seems much more to you.

    But I’ve got plenty of things to do. I have a life.

    I never suggested that you didn’t (have a life).
    However, it’s obvious that much of it, when you’re “on the nets”, is spent wailing and crying about GayPatriot, or playing ‘Miss Manners’ in the comments sections of other blogs, like Althouse.

    That’s some life.
    And who are you trying to convince about this ‘life’ of yours?
    This is the second time in your last two posts here that you’ve felt compelled to mention it.

    So you can stop throwing spaghetti at the wall. It’s not sticking.

    ‘Spaghetti’ to you; facts to others.

    You, and any or all of your legion of followers, are free to challenge the record, if I’ve misrepresented it.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 6:11 am - September 23, 2013

  61. And in case you were wondering, but are too paranoid and stuck in your victim mentality to ask: your comment #52 was most likely held up because it contained multiple hyperlinks, NOT because you are being targeted for ‘special’ moderation.

    Confirmed. (First-hand knowledge.)

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — September 23, 2013 @ 11:05 am - September 23, 2013

  62. This comment thread has become a battle of wits between SF & Jman…
    Comment by mike boob — September 23, 2013 @ 4:44 am

    At least we have ‘wits’.
    You, on the other hand, have roughly the same degree of wits as an over ripe banana.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 11:14 am - September 23, 2013

  63. OK. This is funny.

    In response to my suggestion that “you might want to pay closer attention to the dates that I’ve posted something. That certainly doesn’t take very much time.” you say:

    You and yours are not worth anywhere near the “(not) very much time” it would take to do this.

    But then, you write this:

    I never suggested that you didn’t (have a life).
    However, it’s obvious that much of it, when you’re “on the nets”, is spent wailing and crying about GayPatriot, or playing ‘Miss Manners’ in the comments sections of other blogs, like Althouse.

    That’s some life.

    I never mentioned Althouse on this thread. The last time I mentioned Althouse on my blog was back on August 2nd… almost two months ago.

    This, and the fact that you actually took the time to read the content of the comment and declare “playing ‘Miss Manners’ in the comments sections of other blogs, like Althouse.” indicates that you have indeed taken at least enough time to search out some dirt on me, and / or you spend enough time at Alhthouse to catch the few comments I’ve made there, and are again keeping score.

    And, it’s even better. You complain that all I ever do is either whine about Gay Patriot, or play “Miss Manners” at Althouse, yet if you got over your perpetual pettiness, and looked at more content instead of cherry-picking, you’d see I blog on a whole range of things. In the last two months, I’ve blogged on foreign policy, the NFL, Tim Tebow, the stupid blunders by the administration on Syria, stupid celebrities, a stupid counselwoman, chemical weapons, the NSA, my car… You get the picture.

    What do you do? I haven’t taken the time to investigate your goings on on the nets, but, from what I’ve seen here at GP, all you ever seem do is complain about Lori Heine, myself, and Evil Barrack Obama. You come off as a very bitter and single minded person who doesn’t really enjoy anything except harping on the demon liberals and settling scores.

    I know I shouldn’t judge someone based on comments from a blog, but you just don’t seem like a very happy person. Always so angry and combative. It’s a perception I get from your comments on this blog, and I certainly reserve the right to be wrong.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 23, 2013 @ 11:34 am - September 23, 2013

  64. …and I certainly reserve the right to be wrong.

    A good reservation on your part, because you’re wrong once more, starting with this bit of deduction, you show yet again your Clouseauian ineptitude:

    …indicates that you have indeed taken at least enough time to search out some dirt on me, and / or you spend enough time at Alhthouse (sic) to catch the few comments I’ve made there, and are again keeping score.

    Not quite, Inspector.

    I haven’t read Althouse on any regular basis for over 2 years. I do occasionally check on the personal blogs of some of her longstanding (but now former) commenters, two of whom, along with several commenters, were just as impressed with your contributions there as most people who frequent GayPatriot are bowled over by your offerings here.

    Next:

    You complain that all I ever do is either whine about Gay Patriot, or play “Miss Manners” at Althouse…

    Wrong again.
    I didn’t lodge a complaint, but I made a statement…this one:

    it’s obvious that much of it, when you’re “on the nets”, is spent wailing and crying about GayPatriot…

    So, teacher teacher, I never said that you spend all your time, but much of it, which could be something well under 50% of your ‘net’ time, depending on how many other topics you post or comment on.
    Can you grasp this?

    ..from what I’ve seen here at GP,all you ever seem do is complain about Lori Heine, myself, and Evil Barrack Obama…

    The operative word here is ‘seem’.
    And it would ‘seem’ that way to you because you spend much of your time here (and elsewhere) bitching and moaning about NDT, V the K, this blog’s administrators, and me.

    Who’s ‘keeping score’ again?
    Invest in an adding machine or a new abacus, Pythagoras; your figures are way off.

    You come off as a very bitter and single minded person…

    It’s a testament to that single mindedness that phony a-holes like you should see me that way, which is exactly what I want.
    I don’t kiss up to my adversaries; I stomp the shit out of them until they are in a state where they can no longer do harm to me and mine.
    Since you’re a whiny broad, I can completely understand why this mindset/worldview is so foreign to you.

    …who doesn’t really enjoy anything except harping on the demon liberals

    and settling scores
    Be careful, your penchant for engaging in shameless projection is bleeding through your rhetoric…again.

    I know I shouldn’t judge someone based on comments from a blog…

    …but you’ll do it anyway, as you’ve always done it, do it now, and most likely will continue to do it.
    I know that puts a huge dent in that sense of moral superiority you cling to, but…….tough. It’s the truth, and truth is something you have only a passing familiarity with.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 12:20 pm - September 23, 2013

  65. Formatting correction from previous comment:

    …who doesn’t really enjoy anything except harping on the demon liberals conservatives and settling scores

    A fairly accurate assessment of you, Sonic the Hedgehog.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 12:26 pm - September 23, 2013

  66. I haven’t read Althouse on any regular basis for over 2 years. I do occasionally check on the personal blogs of some of her longstanding (but now former) commenters, two of whom, along with several commenters, were just as impressed with your contributions there as most people who frequent GayPatriot are bowled over by your offerings here.

    I have a fan club! COOL!!!

    Here’s a pile you just stepped in. I rarely comment on Alhouse. So what are the chances that you just happen to stop by your friends blogs and notice them saying something about a person who rarely makes comments there? You spend more time on the internet than you admit. Plus. You wrote this:

    This doesn’t include your pissy comments at any website maintained by other whiny GayPatriot refugees.

    So you have a problem with GP refugees writing snarky comments about GP commenters on their own personal blogs, yet you have no problem with your friends writing snarkycomments about Althouse commenters on their blogs.

    Sometimes, the best option is to just stop digging.

    On the use of “all the time”:

    Wrong again.
    I didn’t lodge a complaint, but I made a statement…this one:

    it’s obvious that much of it, when you’re “on the nets”, is spent wailing and crying about GayPatriot…

    OK. I’ll take that one.

    The operative word here is ‘seem’.
    And it would ‘seem’ that way to you because you spend much of your time here (and elsewhere) bitching and moaning about NDT, V the K, this blog’s administrators, and me.

    Who’s ‘keeping score’ again?
    Invest in an adding machine or a new abacus, Pythagoras; your figures are way off.

    Seem is a very loose and objective term, just as “much” is. Note that it directly implies the possibility that you do do more than that.

    And instead of offering just a few links to examples where you do do more, you simply, one again, go on the typical personal attack. Those who rely on personal attacks are usually short on intellectual ammo.

    I don’t kiss up to my adversaries; I stomp the shit out of them until they are in a state where they can no longer do harm to me and mine.

    I don’t kiss up to my adversaries; I stomp the shit out of them until they are in a state where they can no longer do harm to me and mine.

    OK… Now THAT’S interesting. You see me as an “adversaries”????

    Why?

    And how exactly is having a difference of opinion concerning a post V wrote “harming you or yours”?

    Very interesting indeed.

    I know I shouldn’t judge someone based on comments from a blog…

    …but you’ll do it anyway, as you’ve always done it, do it now, and most likely will continue to do it.
    I know that puts a huge dent in that sense of moral superiority you cling to, but…….tough. It’s the truth, and truth is something you have only a passing familiarity with.

    Interesting that you cut out the conclusion to that sentence, which ends on the supposition that “you just don’t seem like a very happy person”. The inclusion of the term “seems” indicates this is not a final judgment by any means.

    Again, I reserve the right to be wrong. But even with this overly spiteful reply, you do little but to reinforce the perception that your insanely combative and not a happy person.

    PG&E guy is done replacing the gas meter. Gotta go work now.

    I’ll check back this afternoon. But if your response is as shallow as the previous one, I’ll probably not reply. Seeing that your single-minded goal in the GP forum is to ad-hom and attack your “adversaries” and “stomping the shit out of them” as you put it, trying to talk to you and have a civil conversation is a pointless exercise.

    PS. Sonic, the Hedgehog…..

    Oh! That HURT! 🙂

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 23, 2013 @ 1:43 pm - September 23, 2013

  67. So what are the chances that you just happen to stop by your friends blogs and notice them saying something about a person who rarely makes comments there?

    When the comment you made at Althouse was highlighted by the blogress herself (or was it Instapundit?) as one she referenced to defend shutting down her comments section (because snowflakes like you couldn’t deal with the rough and tumble of real free speech, and pissed and moaned to her about it), then the chances are VERY good.

    Here’s a pile you just stepped in.

    No, that’s YOU…again.
    If you check your soles you’ll see an inch of bullshit, at least.

    You spend more time on the internet than you admit.

    I’ve never said anything anywhere regarding how much time I spend on the internet. So why do YOU see it as an issue?
    It’s just more of your projection.
    Are you even aware of how often you pull shiite like this from that cavernous ass of yours and present it as fact, or as germane to what’s being discussed?
    Maybe you should see a doctor about it.

    Those who rely on personal attacks are usually short on intellectual ammo.

    Not in this case: you’re not worth the time it takes to present that kind of argument. In fact, you’re not worth the time I’ve given you so far in this thread. So you can look at it as an act of charity on my part, on behalf of a far lesser light (that’d be you, Sherlock).
    And constantly bitter people (which is what I ‘seem’ to you) are not likely to be so generous.

    You see me as an “adversaries” (sic)???

    How should I see you?
    As an ally?
    As a friend?
    When you spend the time you do trashing people here, how would you like them to see you?

    And how exactly is having a difference of opinion concerning a post V wrote “harming you or yours”?

    It isn’t.
    Did you pull that one from your derriere, too?
    I was answering your observation that I am a “bitter and single minded person”.

    But even with this overly spiteful reply…

    Oh, I’m terribly sorry!
    Did I upset you with my response?
    I’ll try to keep in mind the fact that you have the emotional make up of a 5 year old girl, and that you’re a special little snowflake that can’t handle anything more than being told how wonderful and precious you are.
    Of course, you could always start another harangue at ILC to have me banned…you’ve done it for others.

    …trying to talk to you and have a civil conversation is a pointless exercise

    Yet you persist, oh, great Moderate and Sensible one.
    Why is that?
    And don’t steal or try a riff on my previous line about charity. That would be intellectual theft, or simply parroting me. That’d be a shiity thing to do. Completely consistent with who you are, but shiity nonetheless.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 2:27 pm - September 23, 2013

  68. Seem is a very loose and objective term…

    Quite the opposite; you mean ‘subjective’.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 2:38 pm - September 23, 2013

  69. Rofl. Lower case mike is now appealing to the authority of blowhard Bll O’Reilly and eatablishment hack Jen Rubin. I am sure Joe “MSDNC House Eunuch” Scarborough agrees also.

    Comment by V the K — September 23, 2013 @ 3:09 pm - September 23, 2013

  70. When you spend the time you do trashing people here…

    Wow! Talk about projection! My original comment was directed at the substance of V’s post… NOT at V. Your first three or four comments in response was NOT a counter to my comment, but an exercise in trashing me.

    Throughout our entire exchange, as I pointed out you’ve done nothing but attack the person, me.

    I’ll try to keep in mind the fact that you have the emotional make up of a 5 year old girl

    Sorry, but 5 year old girls are the ones who classify anyone they disagree with to be adversaries.

    Of course, you could always start another harangue at ILC to have me banned…you’ve done it for others.

    Others???? Besides NDT… Who else?

    Answer. No one else.

    And don’t steal or try a riff on my previous line about charity. That would be intellectual theft, or simply parroting me. That’d be a shiity thing to do. Completely consistent with who you are, but shiity nonetheless.

    I have no idea what that line is. And interesting that the one time that I refereed to you on a direct personal basis, you got in a lather over it, yet, there you are, doing the same… More projection maybe?

    (oops on the misspelling and use of objective…. was in a hurry to get done and out the door)

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 23, 2013 @ 7:36 pm - September 23, 2013

  71. Back on point from this distraction. V said in # 2

    2. Both gained notoriety by dealing with natural disasters.

    I’m curious. I was living in Dallas at that time. How much notoriety did MD get from that 78 blizzard? Was it national, or only an East Coast thing? Did it actually carry over to his popularity in 88, ten years later?

    Again, as I said before Christie already owned a spot on the national political stage because of his often acerbic relationship with the press (something Newt tried to emulate with some success last year). If point two were to be more accurate, you would say Christie and Gary Hart were the better comparison, as Hart was the much more well known Democrat vying for the nomination. And, at the time, Mario Cuomo, like Christie, was one of the most identifiable of all the Democrat governors. And since there are no primaries yet, that might be an even better comparison.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 23, 2013 @ 7:47 pm - September 23, 2013

  72. I’m going to band practice now. One of my bandmates is a registered Dem and Vietnam vet. (he’s not a liberal, but a proud socialist).

    He’s older than all of us and will remember more of this. I’ll pick his brain.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 23, 2013 @ 7:50 pm - September 23, 2013

  73. Looks my prior response wasn’t so shallow after all; you responded to it, like a reliable, drooling Pavlovian dog…

    who classify anyone they disagree with to be adversaries

    I do not call everyone that I disagree with an ‘adversary’.
    I liken whiny little snots like YOU to 5 year old girls (who may or may not be adversaries).
    Can you understand that distinction, or is it too ‘nuanced’ for you to handle?

    It should be noted that you have not challenged my assertions about your commenting here and at Althouse, your blog, Heine’s blog, etc. and you’re weeks and months long piss and moan pity party about what a ‘freakshow’ this ‘comical’ blog is (GayPatriot).
    Yet you can’t resist coming back.
    Are you some glutton for punishment?
    Do you like to stir the shiite just to get a reaction?
    One would think with that full, rich life that you’ve taken the trouble to tell everyone you lead (more than once, too), you wouldn’t have time to engage in such trivial behavior.
    What keeps you coming back, time after time after time (and after you have, on more than one occasion, if memory serves, proclaimed your permanent departure from these environs)?
    Are pool cleaning and playing in a band not enough to keep you engaged and focused?
    Have you not gotten laid in a long time?
    What is it that keeps you coming back like a bad penny (or an aggressive virus, take your pick)?
    Perhaps this recent comment at the Libertarian Lesbian’s blog will provide a clue:

    Mike Alexander says:

    September 20, 2013 at 4:32 am

    Lorie… I’ve dipped my ink-stained finger back in the GP pool. My comment on V the K’s silly “Christie = Dukakis” thread hasn’t cleared yet, but when it does, it’s going to really stir up the nest. I just couldn’t not reply to the absurdity.

    That’s the straight of it (no pun intended), isn’t it?
    You return, with no greater intent than to “stir up the nest”.
    Like Auntie Dogma, Levi, Serenity, Cas/Passing By, littlelettermike, Lori Heine, Cinesnatch (and his phalanx of juvenile alter egos), etc., etc., ad nauseum, you come back to do one thing and one thing only: start trouble.
    You don’t align yourself with nearly anything that is said here, nor the majority of beliefs and values that this blog and most of it’s contributors stand for, so that’s all that’s left.

    As I said in a previous comment: That’s some life.

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 8:21 pm - September 23, 2013

  74. Jman, I have to admit that’s an interesting comment you re-posted from the other blogs. (I don’t read them, so I’d have missed it otherwise.) I have long observed, in sf’s behavior when he comes to GP, that he comes not with real goodwill, but precisely to have (or to co-create) the sort of lengthy pissing match he’s having with you, now. Interesting to see him come so close, for once, to admitting it.

    I also love his use of the passive voice, “my comment hasn’t cleared yet”. He makes it sound like comments are cleared by magic elves, as opposed to real individuals (such as myself) upon whose goodwill he very much depends – and yet never cultivates with the slightest polite word of “please” or “thank you”.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — September 23, 2013 @ 8:47 pm - September 23, 2013

  75. He makes it sound like comments are cleared by magic elves, as opposed to real individuals (such as myself) upon whose goodwill he is very much dependent

    1) ‘magic elves’ – good one! 😀
    Maybe they’re related to the Keebler crew; one makes cookies for us to eat, and the other deposits cookies in our cache to track us on the Web.
    2) The reason I pointed out earlier why his comment was ‘held up’ (and which you substantiated…thank you) was as much a response to Heine’s wacko take on it:

    Lori Heine says:

    September 20, 2013 at 7:51 am

    So, they moderate comments now? Do they moderate ALL comments, or just those by people who question their B.S.?

    Do they moderate the comments of J “Man,” or others who spew vile smears against other commenters (even going so far as dragging their dead mothers into the slime?) I find this doubtful.

    But when it comes to a comment from someone like Sonicfrog, who’s shown good sense and restraint, they’ve got to really check it out before deciding whether to post it?

    In my absence from the madhouse that Gay Patriot has become, things have evidently gotten stranger.

    …as it was to Mr. S. Frog, who I have no doubt was comforted by the notion, as he shows at least as great a “I’ve been persecuted by everyone at GayPatriot” complex as she does.
    No matter, ’cause that there’s some industrial strength paranoia.

    Be careful, you two birds…your every move is being watched…your every word is being recorded.

    MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 9:04 pm - September 23, 2013

  76. …and yet never cultivates with the slightest polite word of “please” or “thank you”.

    When you see yourself as a victim, as he most certainly does (he’s been ‘shooting his mouth off’ about it at several blogs for some time now), you can also assume a kind of moral superiority that you never have to work for and earn.
    ‘Virtue on the cheap’, in other words.
    He’s one of the leading exhibitors of that behavior, along with the rest of the whiny GP ex-pats.

    It never dawns on them that there was a time in this culture, not very long ago, where that behavior would have been considered unacceptable from young children…and here they are, many of them likely past 40yo, and whining like bratty 6 year olds.
    What they’re also blind to is that virtually every one of them, in their fashion, has been just as crude and vile and insulting as they whine about others being towards them.
    File this under “Able to Dish it Out, but NEVER Able to Take It”

    Comment by Jman1961 — September 23, 2013 @ 9:30 pm - September 23, 2013

  77. Love it.

    I get back to the actual post, yet you both insist on going for the personal attack. Why do you think I now hold you guys in such contempt.

    I also love his use of the passive voice, “my comment hasn’t cleared yet”. He makes it sound like comments are cleared by magic elves, as opposed to real individuals (such as myself) upon whose goodwill he very much depends – and yet never cultivates with the slightest polite word of “please” or “thank you”.

    That’s funny. I didn’t mention anything about “magic elves”. My comment simply hadn’t cleared yet. Your comment says much more about you than about me.

    Oh… And nice score-keeping.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 24, 2013 @ 12:03 am - September 24, 2013

  78. Mike Alexander says:

    September 20, 2013 at 4:32 am

    Lorie… I’ve dipped my ink-stained finger back in the GP pool. My comment on V the K’s silly “Christie = Dukakis” thread hasn’t cleared yet, but when it does, it’s going to really stir up the nest. I just couldn’t not reply to the absurdity.

    AAANNNDDDD… You responded EXACTLY as I expected. It would have been nice for you to have proved me wrong. You guys simply have no concept for the long game. It’s always instant attack, the preferred method of those train by your radio idols Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Mark Levin.

    You guys and your party as a whole has lost the ability to think long term. It will cost you dearly.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — September 24, 2013 @ 12:09 am - September 24, 2013

  79. I didn’t mention anything about “magic elves”.

    Which would be why I wrote, “He makes it –sound like–…” (As opposed to what I carefully didn’t write, “He mentioned” or “He said.”)

    Sorry, sf, but your ‘try’ there at manufacturing a point of contention for a new pissing contest (now to be with me) was not good, even by your usual (not very high) standard. I suspect that not even your fellow ex-pats would be able to compliment you.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — September 24, 2013 @ 12:30 am - September 24, 2013

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