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Hostage crisis quieting down?

These past few weeks, President Obama has (metaphorically or morally) held a gun to America’s head, demanding that his profligate borrow-and-spending be fully funded or else he’ll default on America’s debt payments.

Now it looks like the crisis is receding, with the hostage-taker mostly getting his way. It isn’t clear if the GOP achieved anything, except yet another committee to look into the nation’s fiscal turpitude.

Knowing that the Tea Party doesn’t have the votes it needs (yet) to break through that turpitude, I didn’t really expect a different outcome. So, I’m not too upset. But was the time & drama worth it?

I say yes: at least it shed light on these issues. Even if you can’t stop lying would-be dictators from succeeding, it’s still worthwhile to rip their masks off. Seeing Obama lie outright about the debt (as I always suspected he would, when cornered) was priceless.

Perhaps Pascal Emmanuel Gobry at Forbes would feel as I do? He writes about the crisis showing Tea Party mettle, and about the hope he feels from seeing the House GOP at least demand (even if they didn’t win) Congress being put on Obamacare like the rest of us. But he also notes that the crisis may have distracted much-deserved attention from Obama’s other troubles, like Obamacare’s launch failure.

Your thoughts?

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123 Comments

  1. The problem with having the MSM protect you is they don’t let you know when your in trouble. They won’t report the problems with the O’bamacare portal. It should be shut down and rebuilt and redesigned but O’bama won’t that would mean that he had to admit he made a mistake with the shutdown. So the first we are going to hear about it is when the screaming starts on April 15, 2014 when 100 million people find out they are going to be taxed for not having insurance. Somehow I don’t think the MSM is going to be able to spin that as the Republicans fault.

    Comment by Catseye — October 16, 2013 @ 7:31 pm - October 16, 2013

  2. $24-Billion-dollars down the drain, and all I have is this stupid Tea Party t-shirt.

    The government shutdown has taken at least $24 billion out of the United States economy, the financial ratings agency Standard & Poor’s said Wednesday. The firm said the shutdown caused it to cut its forecast of gross domestic product growth in the fourth quarter by at least 0.6 percentage point. The agency lowered its estimate for GDP growth to close to 2 percent from 3 percent. The estimate represents a staggering cost to the economy of a completely self-inflicted political catastrophe. Unlike the 2008 economic crisis and other past recessions, the government shutdown had nothing to do with larger economic trends. The numbers show Washington’s brinksmanship caused real damage beyond furloughed government workers and the Washington, D.C., region.

    And all for nothing.
    Not one GOP agenda-item.
    Nothing to show for weeks of pain and uncertainty.
    And this is the result, Nothing.

    And what did the Democrats get?
    – A three week smoke-screen concealing the failures of the Obamacare roll-out.
    – Three weeks of not being the “stupid party”.
    – And Harry Reid now looks like a hero….

    In an intelligent democracy…Boehner, Cantor and Cruz would all be forced to resign and go back home in disgrace.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — October 16, 2013 @ 7:55 pm - October 16, 2013

  3. So, I guess when Obama threatens to veto a budget bill unless it contains comprehensive gun control, we should just fold and not try to fight it; because the MFM will call us ‘stupid’ and hurt our feelings.

    Ted B is right. Why fight anything? Just roll over and give Obama everything he wants. It’s just not worth it to fight.

    Comment by V the K — October 16, 2013 @ 8:17 pm - October 16, 2013

  4. Good gravy, Ted.

    Notice a few things in that article?

    The firm said the shutdown caused it to cut its forecast of gross domestic product growth in the fourth quarter by at least 0.6 percentage point. The agency lowered its estimate for GDP growth to close to 2 percent from 3 percent.

    3 percent minus 0.6% is nowhere near 2%. Scaremongering that depends on people being too stupid to do arithmetic.

    Second off, 2% GDP growth was “explosive growth” and “recovery” mere months ago.

    Growth in the nation’s gross domestic product (GDP) is actually slowing, the opposite of what would be expected in a recovery. In the last three months of 2012, U.S. GDP grew an anemic 0.1 percent. For all of last year, the GDP was up only 1.7 percent. By contrast, in 2011, U.S. GDP climbed 2 percent, and in 2008 it was up 2.2 percent.

    Next up, in an economy with an annual GDP of nearly $16 TRILLION dollars, you are telling me that taking $24 BILLION — which works out to fifteen HUNDRETHS of a percent of total GDP — is going to crater it by THIRTY-THREE PERCENT?

    Finally, every last ounce of that $24 billion on which our entire economy apparently depends is BORROWED. What this article is saying is that the economy will not increase unless we massively borrow money.

    Do you realize how ludicrous that is? That is like a business stating it needs to borrow money to turn a profit.

    Lastly, do you realize that the ratings agency that put this out, Standard and Poor’s, is currently being prosecuted by the Obama Justice Department? Do you think they might have some incentive to, um, LIE for Obama?

    What this all adds up to is a desperate attempt to make of the shutdown what it wasn’t — an economic catastrophe.

    Boehner, fatass Christie, and the rest of the “Republican” establishment are worthless. Ted Cruz had the balls to stand up and say “stop”, and for that he’s being vilified by the whores of the RINO kiss-butt-and-embrace-Obama vanguard.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 16, 2013 @ 8:55 pm - October 16, 2013

  5. Meanwhile, the debt is scheduled to grow to $25 Trillion by 2023.

    Yeah, those Tea Partiers sure were nuts try and do anything about our runaway spending problem. Thank goodness the moderates prevailed! On to Bankruptcy!!

    Comment by V the K — October 16, 2013 @ 9:10 pm - October 16, 2013

  6. This is the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. Do you fuckwits have a single goddamn brain to share between you?

    Comment by Errrr — October 16, 2013 @ 9:24 pm - October 16, 2013

  7. The Tea Party has tried…and tried…and tried…and tried, and nothing.

    Time to change leadership and tactics to achieve something attainable to trim-back the bloat. What has the Tea Party achieved other than better some of their supporters inside the Capital. The Debt is still growing, Obamacare is still mandatory and swallowing the Federal Budget, and the Economy still sucks….

    And the only thing I find admirable about Sen. Cruz is his bladder-control. I’m just not impressed by failure…and grandstanding.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — October 16, 2013 @ 10:03 pm - October 16, 2013

  8. Democrat Mayor proposes sending Tea Partiers to gulags.

    Not the Onion.

    Comment by V the K — October 16, 2013 @ 10:03 pm - October 16, 2013

  9. Ted Cruz is not being “vilified” because he said “stop”

    He is being rightly ridiculed, shamed and mocked because he had no plan. Its easy to say “stop.” Any 2 year old can do it. But if you have no strategy, no leverage and no vision you look like an idiot. And this is what Cruz and the tea party radicals who followed him did.

    Cruz now looks like a fool – but a rich one because of the money he will get from the Tea Party folks who can’t seem to understand they have been hoodwinked by an Ivy League Lawyer.

    To Quote Brit Hume:
    “this is stratagem that has just been thought of, for this situation, by members kind of making things up as they go along.”

    To quote Grover Nordquist:
    Though Norquist didn’t name specific Republicans, he singled out the strategy championed by Cruz.
    “They hurt the conservative movement, they hurt people’s health care, they hurt the country’s economic situation and they hurt the Republican party,” Norquist continued. “And a lot of congressmen and senators are not going to win because we spent three months chasing our own tail — or at least, parts of the conservative movement spent three months chasing their own tail.”
    Norquist also told Woodruff that the strategy was similar to the failures in the most recent Iraq war.
    “These are the people who said, ‘Plan: Step One, Invade Iraq. Step Two, It turns into Kansas,’” Norquist said. “Could I ask if there’s anything in between Step One and Step Two? ‘Oh ye of little faith.’”

    Comment by mike — October 16, 2013 @ 10:23 pm - October 16, 2013

  10. mike, who was wearing ‘fiscal conservative’ drag some months back is now delighted that the Government can continue to run up massive debt with no end in sight, and is appalled that Ted Cruz actually tried to pull the Senate’s snout out of the trough.

    Comment by V the K — October 16, 2013 @ 10:28 pm - October 16, 2013

  11. Ted – Real GDP is going to shrink by a lot more than 0.6%, before the still-coming default is over (not to mention, the economic harm from Obamacare). Stay tuned for my next post.

    V #8 – Yikes, you almost got me to post on that link :-) Thank goodness I stopped to read it.

    P.S. Approved #6 because it is, on its own, so beautifully idiotic.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 16, 2013 @ 10:56 pm - October 16, 2013

  12. #6 is truly remarkable. Sad to say, it represents precisely the mentality that decided the last election, and precisely the mentality that dooms us to bankruptcy and decline.

    Comment by V the K — October 16, 2013 @ 11:20 pm - October 16, 2013

  13. “delighted that the Government can continue to run up massive debt with no end in sight”

    V – please show where I ever showed I was happy with anything that happened here. I am disgusted at Cruz because he engaged in this folly with NO STRATEGY. He is not thinking strategically and acting childish.
    Any fool can stand up and say “no.”

    To quote Jennifer Rubin – who I guess you also want to purge from your party:
    “• Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) was deceiving voters by saying the GOP could accomplish this by “not blinking.”
    • Under false pretenses, Heritage Action was raising money and harassing the offices of Republicans who resisted the phony plan.
    • Talk-show hosts and print editors who defended Cruz and Heritage Action were either complicit in the scam or very gullible.
    • The Senate dealmakers who rescued the GOP from itself were not “sellouts” but heroes.
    • Heritage Action, Cruz and Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) are not “true conservatives” but opportunists.”
    and then:
    “Conservatives have gained, if nothing else, some helpful data:
    1. Cruz and Lee have no plan to advance the party’s or country’s interests. They are opportunists.
    2. Those who followed them were either gullible or ill-intentioned.
    3. The right-wing flacks in the media who helped bring about this calamity either don’t understand governing or don’t care.
    4. Heritage Action is in the business of making money and/or purging the party of anyone with common sense, not in achieving conservative ends.
    5. As a result, Republicans who want to win elections and advance conservative principles should disregard everyone mentioned in items one through four.
    6. The people — in the Senate, House, governor’s mansions and media – who tried to steer the party clear of the fiasco might just have a better grip on things than those in categories one through four.”

    Formulate a strategy that will work. Don’t just stop your foot on the ground, say “no” and then whine about the ramifications of you saying no.

    HAVE A PLAN MAN!!!!
    Is that too hard to ask?

    Comment by mike — October 17, 2013 @ 12:03 am - October 17, 2013

  14. BTW, Ted, did you notice Socialist Hudson county, hipsters in Hoboken, voted 78% Booker, 21% Lonegan.

    Comment by Richard Bell — October 17, 2013 @ 12:34 am - October 17, 2013

  15. At least McConnell got his $3billion ear mark out of the deal.

    http://wfpl.org/post/mcconnell-reid-deal-includes-3-billion-earmark-kentucky-project

    Comment by Richard Bell — October 17, 2013 @ 12:36 am - October 17, 2013

  16. FWIW, McConnell spokesman denies that he requested it.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics-live/liveblog/live-updates-the-shutdown-9/?id=a9f2f203-96e6-4943-baf1-bc7ae85af94f

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 12:40 am - October 17, 2013

  17. To quote Jennifer Rubin – who I guess you also want to purge from your party

    IIRC, the GOP is not V’s party. Your phrasing mike, suggests that you are at least equally far from considering it your party.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 12:43 am - October 17, 2013

  18. 16.FWIW, McConnell spokesman denies that he requested it.

    He probably didn’t formally request it. Still, I think it’s a kickback for going along to get along.

    Comment by Richard Bell — October 17, 2013 @ 1:10 am - October 17, 2013

  19. LOL.

    Did littlewhoremike just try to quote Grover Norquist and Jennifer Rubin, two people who his Barack Obama and his Barack Obama Party demonize as extremist and radical?

    That exposes littlewhoremike as a liar, because littlewhoremike voted for Barack Obama twice and endorses and supports the Barack Obama Party that calls Norquist and Rubin terrorists and radical extremists.

    This is the game that whores like littlewhoremike play. Littlewhoremike pretends to be “moderate” so he can use racist slurs and malignant lies against Ted Cruz, just as littlewhoremike supported Barack Obama and the Barack Obama Party calling Mitt Romney a murderer and a tax cheat. But as the facts show, [Deleted. Come on. You don't literally know if he is on welfare, do you? --Jeff]

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 17, 2013 @ 1:33 am - October 17, 2013

  20. Having principles is a fine thing….

    But principles, right or wrong, and the art of politics dk not mix.

    Politics, when you get down to it, is all about numbers and deal making. On the numbers side…. Your faction of the Republican party simply does not have enough members to win the fight you picked. And worse, there was absolutely no hope of picking up enough support to make this a viable strategic move….

    It was stunningly stupid. Not only did you get absolutely nothing, not only did the Senate slip in changes to the rules to make it impossible to use the debt ceiling as aweapon again, but you made the Democrats look like heros, gave Barack Obama a HUGE victory, but the shutdown distracted everyone from the horrendous rollout of Obamacare. And the Tea Party, by doing this now, shot their wad and won’t be able to use this strategy in the future.

    This whole thing was a complete and utter failure. And worse, it was clear from the start that it was doomed to fail. It’s math. You don’t have anywhere near the number of solid supporters to pull this kind of thing off. The math here is simple. Win more elections, and you have a better chance to make the changes you desire.

    The only winner on the Republican side is Ted Cruz, who is now the undiputed leader of the Tea Party. He’s a smart and cagey guy.

    Well played Mr Cruz….. Well played.

    Comment by sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 1:54 am - October 17, 2013

  21. Does anyone else find it tiresome to see the word “whore” written 9 times in the span of 132 words? I’m not bothered that NDT resorts to name calling…its his thing…I get it, but 9 times out of 132 words seems excessive even for him.

    to use the sports blogger expression: “you mad bro?”

    Comment by mike — October 17, 2013 @ 2:20 am - October 17, 2013

  22. I was pondering something different. Wouldn’t it be funny if a self-proclaimed moderate showed up here to preach cynical pragmatism? That might makes right; that principles are not only useless in the real world, they’re a negative because you’ll fail when you try to apply them and that in itself will prove your stupidity and that you deserved to fail?

    Such a viewpoint would be illogical as well as contemptible. That’s why I think it would be pretty funny, if anybody did pop in suddenly to preach it.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 2:37 am - October 17, 2013

  23. The point is, the political realm is its own world… Has specific rules.

    Numbers. Either you have them on your side, have the mathematical possibility of getting them on your side via horse trading and or comprimise, or you don’t. If you don’t, you don’t make move that do nothing but cause you to lose. When you play chess, you don’t put your Queen out there undefended where the oponents pawn can take and you get no strateigic advantage in return.

    Same with politics. If you don’t know the rules of the game, you probably ought to not go into the profession in the first place…

    Comment by sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 2:54 am - October 17, 2013

  24. …and, you appear to not know.

    Queen sacrifice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhToI0R2KrI
    Queen sacrifice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvX6aM-fXjY
    Queen sac (Kasparov’s Immortal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh5z2YFBkHs
    Queen sac (Carlsen at age 12): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK5UUDYaK7g

    Youtube has more examples.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 3:35 am - October 17, 2013

  25. Correct, ILC, rhe Republican Party is not “my” party. I don’t care about party affiliations, I care about principles and courage; the feckless Republicans have neither.

    People are hating on Ted Cruz because he refuses to play the game. He refuses to offer mere pretend opposition to the left while acceding to and supporting their agenda. The Republican leadership is forever saying, “We can’t fight here, we can’t fight now. We promise to fight somewhere else, later.” Meanwhile, the left’s agenda advances because no one is willing to stand up to them.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 4:50 am - October 17, 2013

  26. And another thing, I give Ted Cruz credit for showing that establishment Republicans like Lindsey “Twinkletoes” Graham, John “Landslide” McCain, and Bitch McConnell aren’t really serious at all about repealing Obamacare or dealing with the deficit. When push comes to shove, they’ll side with Obama-Reid-Pelosi, and against the American people and the Republican base.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 7:05 am - October 17, 2013

  27. BTW, the deal that most of the Republicans in the senate voted for allows Obama to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling without Congressional approval. The Congress has ceded its power of the purse to Obama.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 7:42 am - October 17, 2013

  28. Anyway, now that the “shutdown” is over, and Obama has unlimited authority to raise the debt, I eagerly await the GOP Establishment’s unveiling of its Master Plan to repeal Obamacare and bring spending down to affordable levels.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 7:50 am - October 17, 2013

  29. Does anyone else find it tiresome to see the word “whore” written 9 times in the span of 132 words? I’m not bothered that NDT resorts to name calling…its his thing…I get it, but 9 times out of 132 words seems excessive even for him.

    to use the sports blogger expression: “you mad bro?”

    Comment by mike — October 17, 2013 @ 2:20 am – October 17, 2013

    Why no, littlewhoremike; it’s just being pragmatic, supporting good governance, and negotiating in good faith..

    Wrong – When I talk about means testing Social Security, Medicare, Drug Testing Food Stamps, crack downs on abuses, limiting Federal Student Loans my liberal pals call me “Ayn Rand” or worse, “Tony Perkins”.

    However, in my experience the folks on the left are more pragmatic than the radicals on the right and will negotiate in the spirit of good governance if the other side is good faith – which is one reason I voted for Obama.

    Comment by mike — September 25, 2013 @ 12:13 am – September 25, 2013

    Besides, there’s no namecalling with “whore”, not when your sainted liberal friends and Obama use it to describe women.

    So as we see, littlewhoremike, you can hardly claim to be making criticism based on objective principles, given your copious praise and repeated votes for namecallers like your liberal “pals”, your Barack Obama, and your Obama Party.

    But it CAN be easily explained when one goes back to that thread in September and sees you demanding that Republicans meet your demands for more welfare handouts or you were going to sell your vote to the Obama Party that would give you more.

    At which point Heliotrope nailed you to the wall by simply asking what the cost for your vote was.

    So we’ve already established you’re a whore, littlewhoremike; now we’re just negotiating on price.

    And since you voted for Barack Obama twice and overwhelmingly endorse liberalism, we’ve established that you don’t care about corruption, incompetence, an abusive DOJ, IRS, and EPA being used to harass and punish political opponents while giving a free ride to Obama supporters, racism, Barrycades, the epic failure of 404care, massive and punitive tax hikes, choking regulations, trillion-dollar annual deficits, debt blasting through multiples of GDP, massive unfounded entitlement liabilities, unemployment, crashing workforce participation, part-time instead of full-time jobs, feckless foreign policy, sexually harassing and assaulting women a la Bob Filner, AND namecalling political opponents as terrorists and Nazis with bombs strapped to their chests.

    But “binders full of women”, “they gonna put y’all back in chains”, Trayvon Martin
    and tampon earrings, that you DO care about.

    Oh, and of course Obama promising you free health care, free food stamps, free mortgages, and everything else at the expense of “the rich”.

    So not only are you a whore, littlewhoremike, you’re a stupid and banal whore who will make any excuse for any level of liberal ignorance in exchange for someone else ‘a money.

    And the inability of you 52%-er whores to think past your own selfish demands for other people to subsidize your laziness, your indebtedness, and your irresponsiblity is destroying the economy. Societies cannot survive when over half of the population demands to be paid the same or more for NOT working that they would receive for working.

    That is basic math, littlewhoremike, and how do your liberal “pals” respond to it?

    “AYN RAND! TONY PERKINS!”

    Lmao.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 17, 2013 @ 8:38 am - October 17, 2013

  30. Y’know, if I supported fiscal responsibility, entitlement reform, and opposed cronyism… yet consistently voted for and supported a party that ran up massive deficits, dug in to preserve the entitlement status quo, and gave billions in public money to the companies of well-connected donors… I think the cognitve dissonance would drive me insane.

    Of course, if I claimed to support one set of things while championing politicians who opposed those very things, no one could take me seriously anyway. They would think I was either delusional, lying, or both.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 8:54 am - October 17, 2013

  31. Such a viewpoint would be illogical as well as contemptible. That’s why I think it would be pretty funny, if anybody did pop in suddenly to preach it.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 2:37 am – October 17, 2013

    Even more so when it’s a professed “libertarian” demonizing people for demanding a rollback of government, a reduction in spending, and the removal of onerous mandates.

    But then again, said “libertarians” and their fellow “libertarians” in the media and the Obama Party apparently aren’t too swift, given that they weren’t able to multitask a government shutdown AND the utter fiasco that is 404Care, while it seemingly was no problem at all for the Tea Partiers that they constantly demonize as stupid, uneducated, trash.

    The last just makes me chuckle. Why does a “libertarian” spout so perfectly the Obama Party and media talking points that the shutdown prevents them from reporting on 404Care? Why it’s almost like “libertarians” are willing to repeat anything liberals tell them as long as they can blame the Tea Party.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 17, 2013 @ 8:59 am - October 17, 2013

  32. I was pondering something different. Wouldn’t it be funny if a self-proclaimed moderate showed up here to preach cynical pragmatism? That might makes right; that principles are not only useless in the real world, they’re a negative because you’ll fail when you try to apply them and that in itself will prove your stupidity and that you deserved to fail?

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 2:37 am – October 17, 2013

    “Moderate” is the political equivalent of “escort”; at the end of the day, it’s still selling your body to the highest bidder.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 17, 2013 @ 9:08 am - October 17, 2013

  33. As the sun rose, the militia fired on the Regulars, but being outnumbered, the militia fell back. The Regulars proceeded on in victory.

    It took from April 19, 1775 until October 19, 1781 for the militia to expel the Regulars and declare victory.

    The first shots were, at best, symbolic. But they became immortalized by Emerson’s Concord Hymn as the “shot heard ’round the world.”

    Ted Cruz’s voice has stirred a deep seated feeling of disgust with the one party system which promotes big government by the Republicans and statism by the Democrats. The blended party (politburo) operates as the only game in town while every representative grows rich, fat and sassy off the useful idiots. They do show hearings and have staged hissy-fits, but in the end, it is them against us.

    Moderate Republicans and less moderate Democrats really love the status quo and can not imagine any purpose to be served in not going along to get along in what is essentially a country club of elites.

    John McCain’s hatred of Ted Cruz is palpable. McCain knows what being a prisoner to a system is all about. He has no stomach for upsetting the regime imposed upon him, because he prefers to remain in the regime to strut his stuff upon the stage.

    Rebels are best branded as being firebrands, lunatics and without a cause.

    Joan of Arc got herself burned at the stake. Wasn’t that meaningless and stupid? Sumner got himself caned to within an inch of his life. The Whigs sure stopped the Republican Party from forming.

    Even a movie in which a fictional character screams “I’m mad as Hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” is soon a forgotten bit of dross so far as the regime is concerned.

    The government shutdown had no effect whatsoever on anyone, anywhere. Nothing to see here. We not only needed to cave, we need to ramp up goodies for illegal aliens to prove that we are big-hearted people who can be nice on occasion. We Republicans need to be more like Democrats.

    Whew!

    It is a terrible thing when the Amalgamated Union of Pimps and Whores have to take on virtuous scabs who won’t join the ranks.

    Cruz, Lee, Limbaugh, Levin, Gowdy, Palin, Freedomworks, Heritage, Sowell, Gomez, etc. have all got to go and to take their embarrassing base of wing nuts with them. Yessiree.

    But, what if they overwhelm the party instead? What if they start picking off the Regulars and bust up the Amalgamated Union of Pimps and Whores? Wouldn’t that be just terrible, or what?

    Comment by heliotrope — October 17, 2013 @ 10:26 am - October 17, 2013

  34. …and, you appear to not know.

    Queen sacrifice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhToI0R2KrI
    Queen sacrifice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvX6aM-fXjY
    Queen sac (Kasparov’s Immortal): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh5z2YFBkHs
    Queen sac (Carlsen at age 12): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK5UUDYaK7g

    Youtube has more examples.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 3:35 am – October 17, 2013

    I said, specifically:

    When you play chess, you don’t put your Queen out there undefended where the opponents pawn can take and you get no strategic advantage in return.

    I didn’t say you never sacrifice your Queen. Of course there are times when you do, especially when your playing against an opponent who is less skilled and is Queen obsessed (good term to use on a gay blog). All those moves you posted sacrifice the Queen for strategic purposes. They’re not analogous to my comment.

    [Jeff adds: You didn't actually look the examples, did you? I figured you wouldn't. In the second one, the Queen is captured by a pawn for "no strategic advantage in return". Watch the video up to 2:45, stop it there (don't go on) and try to say, in your own words, the supposed strategic advantage. Then continue and see who won. Hint: Neither side played with computer-perfect accuracy, but neither blundered. Either could have won; whatever advantages they were playing for were arguably nonexistent (until fully realized, later). THAT is how chess works. And politics. You just don't get what Cruz was playing for. Others of us, do.]

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 10:32 am - October 17, 2013

  35. It took from April 19, 1775 until October 19, 1781 for the militia to expel the Regulars and declare victory.

    The Revolutionary war was won because George Washington, though he wanted to, decided not to attack the British stronghold in New York, but instead fought using a Fabian strategy, picking the battles he was less likely to lose, and retreating to fight another day. The Tea Party just charged New York…. And predictably, got creamed.

    Thank God the Tea Party as it exists today was not in charge of the Revolutionary Army…….

    We’d be singing “Hail To The Queen” as our national anthem if they were.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 10:42 am - October 17, 2013

  36. If you hate the Tea Party, ipso facto, you hate fiscally responsible, Constitutionally restrained Government. That is the core principle of the Tea Party, and they are the only political organization actually fighting for that principle.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 10:56 am - October 17, 2013

  37. V – Ed Morrissey disagrees with Breitbart on the debt-ceiling-power-giveaway thing: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/17/did-the-deal-allow-the-president-to-set-the-debt-limit-from-now-on/

    Let’s watch what happens. I agree, if the GOP did give it away, **that** would be world-changing stupidity.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 11:06 am - October 17, 2013

  38. If you hate the Tea Party, ipso facto, you hate fiscally responsible, Constitutionally restrained Government. That is the core principle of the Tea Party, and they are the only political organization actually fighting for that principle.

    I agree. You can try to pretend otherwise, but you may as well pretend monkeys will fly out of your butt.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 11:20 am - October 17, 2013

  39. If you hate the Tea Party, ipso facto, you hate fiscally responsible, Constitutionally restrained Government.

    Logical Fallacy Alert! Denying the middle.

    I distrust the Tea Party because they’re reckless and politically stupid, which they’ve just proven yet again, and many of them are not about the things you just listed.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 11:27 am - October 17, 2013

  40. I don’t get the feeling from your comments that you distrust them; rather, I get the feeling from your comments that you hate them.

    It’s kind of a spectacle, really. The one group of politicians fighting for what any true moderate or libertarian should want, you deride for trying and always depict in the worst light.

    Saying they’re unskillful (in your opinion) would be distrust. Reveling in their supposed “failure” (heliotrope answers that) and suggesting they’re stupid for even trying, seems closer to hate.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 11:34 am - October 17, 2013

  41. Any fool can stand up and say “no.”

    And you do it so well, libtard mike. Especially when you mimic President Petulant in the Whine House.

    Checkmate.

    Regards,
    Peter H.

    Comment by Peter Hughes — October 17, 2013 @ 11:43 am - October 17, 2013

  42. The Tea Party has made mistakes, just as any passionate, young political organization is bound to. There is this thing called a learning curve. (I am also not convinced it was a mistake to fight against deficits and Obamacare.)

    The Establishment GOP has made mistakes: John McCain, Mitt Romney, The Bush Domestic Agenda, Tommy Thompson, Denny Rehberg, George Allen, Connie Mack, Nick Berg, Pete Hoekstra, Linc Chaffee, Arlen Specter.

    What’s their excuse?

    As for the Libertarian Party, they are not so much a political movement as an intellectual pissing match.

    I am willing to help the Tea Party improve their tactics because I want their principles to prevail. Those who want them destroyed and outcast do not want their principles to prevail.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 11:51 am - October 17, 2013

  43. Every great change begins somewhere, with somebody, at some time, standing up regardless of the Stockholm Syndrome “moderates” who deride them for it.

    And having principles, or being in the right, is always a strategic advantage. Even if it’s not enough to win the battle of the moment.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 11:56 am - October 17, 2013

  44. I don’t get the feeling from your comments that you distrust them; rather, I get the feeling from your comments that you hate them.

    Feeling??? I thought only liberals based their views on emotions.

    And now you’re not being honest. I’ve posted years worth of links from my blog, or comments I made on other blogs stating my position on fiscally sound government policy, and instead of acknowledging my positions, you’ve cheered the lazy and lame responses of your allies here at GP who say I hate them.

    What do I hate?

    The Tea Party has made mistakes, just as any passionate, young political organization is bound to. There is this thing called a learning curve. (I am also not convinced it was a mistake to fight against deficits and Obamacare.)

    The Establishment GOP has made mistakes: John McCain, Mitt Romney, The Bush Domestic Agenda, Tommy Thompson, Denny Rehberg, George Allen, Connie Mack, Nick Berg, Pete Hoekstra, Linc Chaffee, Arlen Specter.

    What’s their excuse?

    As for the Libertarian Party, they are not so much a political movement as an intellectual pissing match.

    I am willing to help the Tea Party improve their tactics because I want their principles to prevail. Those who want them destroyed and outcast do not want their principles to prevail.

    Huh??? You complain about someone wanting to destroy and outcast, yet, at the very same time, by singling out “mistakes”, moderates, RINO’s, “establishment” blah blah blah….You and the Tea Party are doing THAT EXACT THING!!!! You can’t help the Tea Party grow because you’re making others within your own party, who could and would be allies, into what is in your view undesired elements that must be purged. The Tea Party is failing because the same attitude you have is firmly entrenched within it. The prohibition movement didn’t see it’s policy successfully implemented until it finally learned to embrace others outside of the cause and build a coalition of allies, instead of trying to be a pure movement.

    V, you can’t help the Tea Party improve their tactic by following your advise… They’re already doing it.. And it’s failing.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 12:29 pm - October 17, 2013

  45. And having principles, or being in the right, is always a strategic advantage.

    But it’s not enough. You can be completely in the right. But that has nothing to do with victory. Being right is no substitute for being smart. And this shutdown was plain stupid.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 12:32 pm - October 17, 2013

  46. Politics, Max Weber taught us, is about the raw exercise of power. There is no “making nice,” except as a tool to gain or expand power. Those who support the principles of fiscally responsible, Constitutionally aligned Government have nothing to gain from making nice with a GOP Establishment that will do nothing for them and everything to defeat them. The GOP won’t change until its survival is at stake. (Problematically, the GOP is hellbent on suicide. [i.e. Amnesty]})

    If the Tea Party wants to have as much influence in the GOP as the radical left has with the Democrat Party (i.e. total ownership), they have to take some scalps.

    And I hope the next one is Lindey Graham’s.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 12:37 pm - October 17, 2013

  47. Obama, never missing an opportunity to be a complete dick Gloats over his ‘victory’.

    mikey is so proud he voted for this good governance pragmatist.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 12:43 pm - October 17, 2013

  48. Politics, Max Weber taught us, is about the raw exercise of power. There is no “making nice,” except as a tool to gain or expand power.

    AAAANNNNDDDDD…. With power come the ability to, you know, actually change things more to your liking. What he said right there is a contradiction. There’s a reason why Max Weber isn’t very well known, even if others cherry-pick bits of his political philosophies and added it to their own.

    Constitutionally aligned Government have nothing to gain from making nice with a GOP Establishment

    Um… Votes??? And more support???? That might be something you could gain i would imagine.

    … that will do nothing for them and everything to defeat them.

    Gee… With your attitude, which mirrors the Tea Party wing of the Republican party… I wonder why that is?????

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 12:56 pm - October 17, 2013

  49. PS. I found this on the net today:

    Grover Norquist isn’t happy with the Defunders. The Americans for Tax Reform president told reporters today that they have a lot of apologies to make and bridges to re-build.

    “It’d be a good idea if they stopped referring to other Republicans as Hitler appeasers because they opposed the strategy they put forward which failed,” Norquist says. “I think if you make a mistake as big as what they did, you owe your fellow senators and congressmen a big apology — and your constituents, as well, because nothing they did advanced the cause of repealing or dismantling Obamacare.”

    Norquist refrained from naming the specific people who he thinks owe apologies to the rest of the conservative movement, but his reference is transparent — during his lengthy floor speech, Senator Ted Cruz said Republicans who supported a CR that would fund Obamacare were comparable to Neville Chamberlain.

    Norquist adds that the defund effort has hurt its proponents’ goals.

    “They hurt the conservative movement, they hurt people’s health care, they hurt the country’s economic situation and they hurt the Republican party,” he says. “And a lot of congressmen and senators are not going to win because we spent three months chasing our own tail — or at least, parts of the conservative movement spent three months chasing their own tail.”

    He also compared the Defunders’ strategy to that of the Iraq invasion.

    “These are the people who said, ‘Plan: Step One, Invade Iraq. Step Two, It turns into Kansas,’” Norquist says. “Could I ask if there’s anything in between Step One and Step Two? ‘Oh ye of little faith.’”

    Is Grover Norquist a “squish” “establishment” RINO now too????

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 12:59 pm - October 17, 2013

  50. So, when Obama comes back in a few weeks and announces a delay in Obamacare implementation; will littlelettermike criticize him for embracing this radical, extremist position?

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 1:08 pm - October 17, 2013

  51. Sonicfrog,

    Are you conflating the militia that fired the opening shots with Washington, his strategy and all manner of later organization and disorganization?

    I ask, because your “smack down” of my reference tacitly implies it.

    Furthermore, I am totally confused by your pronouncement that

    I distrust the Tea Party because they’re reckless and politically stupid, which they’ve just proven yet again, and many of them are not about the things you just listed.

    Where can you direct me to go to find this organization of reckless and politically stupid people? Who is designing their strategy? Who are their leaders. What is their agenda?

    Since you declare them reckless and stupid people, you must have used your steel trap mind to dissect them. Maybe I stand ready to agree with you, but first I would like to at least see your crib notes.

    Meanwhile, let me ask about the losers in the militia that had to skedaddle at Lexington: were they reckless and stupid and, therefore, entirely disconnected from the Revolutionary War in all of its ups and downs?

    Remember the guy who shot the Archduke Ferdinand? He tried to throw a bomb which was a dud. The carriage was turned down a side street and it ended up stopped in front of the surprised assassin. Military pursued the assassin. He tried to take poison and barfed it up. He tried to throw himself into the river and broke his bones landing on the rocky shore. Did WWI have any connection to his own clown-self?

    Unflappable, courageous people sometimes spark all manner of things that roll like the tide.

    As Einstein tried to warn you: Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

    Now, if I somehow implied that the Revolutionary War was finally won because those firing the opening shot ran away which caused Washington to emerge and use Fabian tactics and bring in a mysterious fog as he was fleeing Brooklyn Heights and …… please explain it all to me. My little brain can handle it.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 17, 2013 @ 1:16 pm - October 17, 2013

  52. It is rather amusing to see the self-proclaimed libertarian rooting for the statist establishment GOP to crush and destroy the grassroots Tea Party.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 1:20 pm - October 17, 2013

  53. As a smarter commenter noted, if the GOP had been doing its job (opposition party, standing for Constitutionally aligned, fiscally responsible Government), the Tea Party would never have been.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 1:26 pm - October 17, 2013

  54. Are you conflating the militia that fired the opening shots with Washington, his strategy and all manner of later organization and disorganization?

    I ask, because your “smack down” of my reference tacitly implies it.

    No. It doesn’t. In the case of the Tea Party, the first shots were fired in the election of 2010, when the Tea Party took the house. This is a good three years later. 1778. By this time, the Americans had signed a treaty to gain the French as allies, we won the Battle of Barren Hill, and Washington had survived Valley Forge.

    The Tea Party???? Has a sequester that was actually Obama’s idea…. And pretty much pissed off everyone who could have been, you know, an ally.

    That’s about it. Oh, they do have an undisputed leader now in Cruz. That might help… If he wasn’t so busy pissing everyone off.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 1:36 pm - October 17, 2013

  55. As a smarter commenter noted, if the GOP had been doing its job (opposition party, standing for Constitutionally aligned, fiscally responsible Government), the Tea Party would never have been.

    Hey. I started to stop voting for those guys in 2004. What were you doing?

    Oh, and BTW…. If you can’t stand the “establishment” and “squishes” and “RINO’s” that are ensconced within the GOP and not going anywhere… Why does the Tea Party remain in the GOP????

    Could it be that they know they would have no power without it?????

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 1:41 pm - October 17, 2013

  56. It is rather amusing to see the self-proclaimed libertarian rooting for the statist establishment GOP to crush and destroy the grassroots Tea Party.

    No. I’m rooting for the Tea Party to stop being stupid.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 1:42 pm - October 17, 2013

  57. No. I’m rooting for the Tea Party to stop being stupid.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 1:42 pm

    Since you’re one of the notorious purveyors of ‘stupid’ around here, why don’t you put a stop to yours so we can see how it’s done.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 17, 2013 @ 1:47 pm - October 17, 2013

  58. I’m just rooting for the Tea Party to win.

    Because, you see, I actually want smaller government.

    Feeling??? I thought only liberals based their views on emotions.

    Almost a new low, given that sf is the one who brought up his feelings (“distrust”) for discussion. Almost. :-) sf has had many lows over the years, in his efforts to manufacture points of contention for his pissing contests. Looks like we’ve reached that phase here. Oh, well.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 1:57 pm - October 17, 2013

  59. you’ve cheered the lazy and lame responses of your allies here at GP who say I hate them.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 12:29 pm

    So another lie uttered by you.
    You must be a glutton for punishment.

    This is your most recent declaration regarding hatred for conservatives

    And for those not inclined to click the link, like the Phony Libertarian, here it is, in his own words:

    Why do you think I now hold you guys in such contempt(?).

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 17, 2013 @ 2:03 pm - October 17, 2013

  60. When I am rooting for my football team to win, I don’t start out by calling them a bunch of losers and telling them to get off the field.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 2:04 pm - October 17, 2013

  61. Why do you think I now hold you guys in such contempt?

    The feeling is mutual, you colossal phony.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 17, 2013 @ 2:07 pm - October 17, 2013

  62. Yeah, V. I prefer to try to figure out which of them are wearing cups, or not. (Sorry :-) )

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 2:07 pm - October 17, 2013

  63. Comment #62 sponsored by gearfetish.com… for all of your gear fetish needs. ;-)

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 2:13 pm - October 17, 2013

  64. And, as a pre-emptive measure, don’t come back here to gin up another one of your ‘pissing contests’, as ILC has so aptly called them, and hand everyone some BS on how ‘hate’ and ‘contempt’ are not in any way synonymous.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 17, 2013 @ 2:15 pm - October 17, 2013

  65. Sonicfrog,

    Passing-By plays your game a bit better. You have moved your narrative forward by pushing the TEA Party back to 2010 in order to have your model work. OK, then. Lets call 2010 the Boston Tea Party of December 16, 1773 in order to tit for tat according to the book of rules you imposed on my illustrative statement concerning how revolutions rarely start off winning group an pushing through to immediate success.

    It would appear that your pride requires that Ted Cruz be pissed on by the truly brilliant minds who are lying in wait to change history from the sidelines at the critically timed moment.

    Stinks to be you. First Sarah Palin lights up the base and then Ted Cruz comes along fires up the stupid morons.

    Who and where is the Sonicfrog chosen leader?

    Comment by heliotrope — October 17, 2013 @ 2:22 pm - October 17, 2013

  66. I am reminded of a crazy old aunt I had to block from the family Facebook group because she never had anything positive to say, and just wanted to stir sh-t up.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 2:43 pm - October 17, 2013

  67. An explanation of the Tea Party at Ace of Spades.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 17, 2013 @ 2:52 pm - October 17, 2013

  68. To continue my point from #34, about what Cruz was playing for. I think he was playing for the following long-term advantages:

    1) Being on the right side; saying what’s true, doing what’s right.
    2) Branding possibly-the-GOP, possibly-the-Tea-Party, and/or possibly-himself as the real party of balanced budgets and government restraint.

    Both are long-term advantages, not about winning today’s or yesterday’s battle. Both are ongoing projects; you can’t do them only once, you must embody them many times and in all circumstances. Cruz won in that he advertised and embodied them, this time.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 2:53 pm - October 17, 2013

  69. you’ve cheered the lazy and lame responses of your allies here at GP who say I hate them.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 12:29 pm

    So another lie uttered by you.
    You must be a glutton for punishment.

    This is your most recent declaration regarding hatred for conservatives

    And for those not inclined to click the link, like the Phony Libertarian, here it is, in his own words:

    Why do you think I now hold you guys in such contempt(?).

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 17, 2013 @ 2:03 pm – October 17, 2013

    Um… Interesting that you didn’t include the whole comment, which was:

    I get back to the actual post, yet you both insist on going for the personal attack. Why do you think I now hold you guys in such contempt.

    I wasn’t even talking about the Tea Party, or Conservatives….. I was talking about you guys specifically. And funny, I was just going to mention that, once again, you’re using personal attacks to distract from the actual topic of the thread. Even funnier, is just after that, ILC closed the thread.

    At least this time ILC is getting back to the topic at hand.

    Both are long-term advantages, not about winning today’s or yesterday’s battle. Both are ongoing projects; you can’t do them only once, you must embody them many times and in all circumstances. Cruz won in that he advertised and embodied them, this time.

    But everyone already knows where he stands.

    This reminds me of Al Gore’s idiotic “Earth Day” worldwide concerts, staged to raise awareness of Global Warming. Not only was everyone already very well aware of global warming – in 2006, you couldn’t escape the topic if you tried – but the only thing he actually accomplished was to throw a big party and have hundreds of thousands of people fly more miles on polluting airplane, drive in polluting cars to get to those concerts all around the globe, and add even more evil CO2 to the atmosphere than if he wouldn’t have done this fruitless exercise at all.

    It’s unwise to do battle every time, in all circumstances, as sometimes you will do more damage to the cause than if you would have just waited and chosen a better place and time to make that stand. You battle every single time, and you leave yourself very vulnerable to the rope-a-dope counteroffensive, where the other guy just lays back, wait for you to tire yourself out, then go in for the knock-out blow.

    In this case, it would have been much much much better to have waited and let the mounting fail that is the ACA so far dominate the news cycle. Instead, this strategy not only distracted from that, but gave Obama and the Dems a sizable victory in the process.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 4:14 pm - October 17, 2013

  70. Anti-Tea Party guy Stephen Green also agrees with me.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 4:37 pm - October 17, 2013

  71. As does Anti-Tea Party guy Ed Morissey.

    You’re going to have to choose between ideological purity and winning votes.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 4:41 pm - October 17, 2013

  72. I agree with you, ILC. Ted Cruz is playing the long game. You don’t knock off a sitting Lt. Governor/MultiMultimillionaire/Scion of the Texas GOP without a game plan.

    It’s a shame people like John McCain and Sonicfrog don’t attack Obamacare with the venom they spew at the people who are trying to repeal it.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 6:14 pm - October 17, 2013

  73. Rafael Cruz, pastor and father of Ted Cruz, focuses on the Book of Proverbs

    For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again; But the wicked are overthrown by calamity.

    As a general rule, I leave the Bible verses aside when confronting the smugness of atheism, relative morality, situational ethics, amorality and just plain old rampant smug elitism.

    But, just because the hope and change artists operate without moral certitude, it does not mean that they are invincible from the Biblical truths.

    As the Obamanauts find themselves having more and more in common with the statists of the Third Reich, We the People still have a large contingent of people who are grounded in an ethic that is far from light, transient and lacking prudence.

    I am still wondering who Sonicfrog is finding as a “more perfect” righteous man for his vision of the TEA Party than Ted Cruz. But, not surprisingly, Sonicfrog refuses to address the query, let alone acknowledge it. So it goes when an enlightened one is wearied from casting pearls before the likes of me.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 17, 2013 @ 6:15 pm - October 17, 2013

  74. It’s a shame people like John McCain and Sonicfrog don’t attack Obamacare with the venom they spew at the people who are trying to repeal it.

    Well put.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 6:28 pm - October 17, 2013

  75. I’m on record numerous time saying the ACA / Obamacare is a bad law.

    I’m “attacking” as you call it the people trying to repeal Obamacare… Because they’re doing a tremendously shitty job of it. You can’t repeal it until you get the votes to do it. You can do it until you stop pissing off potential swing voters who could elect someone who would vote to repeal…

    Going back to my, and Grover Norquist, and Stephen Greene, and Ed Morrisey, etc, etc, etc… It’s about numbers. You can’t get it repealed until you win more elections. Period.

    If you weren’t so busy calling voters losers, takers, low information voters etc, etc, etc, pissing off voters, and driving people away from you, and just being all around jerks to anyone who doesn’t share all of your values and principles, maybe you could get enough of those votes. On your current trajectory… That ain’t going to happen.

    Sorry the truth hurts.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 17, 2013 @ 7:03 pm - October 17, 2013

  76. As does Anti-Tea Party guy Ed Morissey.

    You’re going to have to choose between ideological purity and winning votes.

    Ideological purity is cast as monolithic.

    Perhaps the all-seeing Sonicfrog can channel Ed Morissey and give us the ideological purity manifesto of any particular right-wingnut group and/or the TEA Party.

    “Winning votes” tacitly infers a static process in which the bait, conditions, tensile strength of line, hook size and soothing music is firmly established.

    Political punditry at this level is everyman simple.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 17, 2013 @ 7:11 pm - October 17, 2013

  77. I’m on record numerous time saying the ACA / Obamacare is a bad law.

    …as you put greater energy into undermining the people who want to change it. And then rationalize such contortions as moderation, sanity, pragmatism, etc.

    Truth hurts, indeed.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 17, 2013 @ 7:26 pm - October 17, 2013

  78. If you weren’t so busy calling voters losers, takers, low information voters etc, etc, etc, pissing off voters, and driving people away from you, and just being all around jerks to anyone who doesn’t share all of your values and principles, maybe you could get enough of those votes. On your current trajectory… That ain’t going to happen.

    A vast majority of “takers” don’t understand the “slight” nor do they encounter it. The welfare and proud of it crowd are not amenable to anything rising above a blatant bride or demagoguery that massages them.

    Low information voters are hardly listening to Rush Limbaugh. If they did, they would no longer be “low information voters.” And the whole man on the street late-night comedy idiot skits would fall flat.

    I want one bullet proof example of where anyone insists on the hyperbolic, baroque standard of insisting that “share all of your values and principles.

    The clear fact is that only doughboy, would-be bullies structure such under-powered broadsides from outside of possible range.

    Think your stuff through, Sonicfrog. At best you are frothing and spraying spittle.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 17, 2013 @ 7:26 pm - October 17, 2013

  79. The funny part, again, is watching Sonicfrog, littlewhoremike, and the rest of the Obama Cut ‘n Paste Brigade not only commit the fallacy of appealing to authority, but the hilarity of appealing to authorities that up until ten minutes ago they were demonizing as Nazi racist terrorists with bombs strapped to their chests who want to kill the elderly, leave women to die on the floor, starve children, and put gays in concentration camps.

    And which they will commence demonizing again the instant they say anything negative about Obama or positive about Ted Cruz or the Tea Party.

    Seriously. Do they think we don’t recognize this? Do they think we are as deliberately ignorant of their past stands or as terrified of being called anti-black as they are?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 17, 2013 @ 7:26 pm - October 17, 2013

  80. I don’t see how Republicans win more elections by becoming more like the Democrats. Democrats have a value proposition that appeals to low information voters: “We’ll take money from people you don’t like and buy you sh-t with it.” The Republicans can’t win if their counter-proposition is, “We won’t do that.”

    If, on the other hand, they became an actual opposition party, started caring about middle class families more than what the MFM were saying about them, did outreach to the kind of people who have been fired up by the Tea Party, and brought alienated non-voters who are convinced the system is rigged against them back to the polls, they might do better.

    Or they can continue the John McCain – Karl Rove – Grover Norquist approach of shoveling piles of money on political consultants who tell them to “woo the center” by promising Amnesty and “Don’t attack Democrats, independent voters hate that” and continue to lose, lose, lose.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 7:42 pm - October 17, 2013

  81. You got it, V the K.

    Voters like littlewhoremike want the free stuff.

    Voters like Sonicfrog want the government punishing people that they hate.

    Republicans are stuck in the invidious position of patiently explaining why these are not good things to what amount to surly teenagers, while the Obama Party tells them it’s all a lie, that they can do whatever they want, that grown ups are squares, etc.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 17, 2013 @ 8:16 pm - October 17, 2013

  82. That is indeed the conundrum, NDT.

    1. The country cannot survive, fiscally and economically, as a Government dominated by leftists hands out ever higher levels of free stuff to the parasite class.

    2. Any politician who seeks to reduce or restrain the amount of free stuff flowing to the parasite class is labeled “extreme” and “radical,” and so it is impossible to elect them in sufficient numbers to return the nation to fiscal sanity.

    This is why bankruptcy, decline, and collapse are no longer avoidable. The only way to get rid of the parasites, at this point, is for the host to die.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 9:53 pm - October 17, 2013

  83. Oh, yeah, and even though people get really pissed off when I point those things out, no one can refute my characterization of our national problem.

    Comment by V the K — October 17, 2013 @ 9:59 pm - October 17, 2013

  84. Actually the shutdown seems to be working out very well for the Tea Party crowd. Since now O’bama is stuck with a non-working website that should be taken down and rebuilt but he has painted himself into the corner of not being able to do that because that is why he shut down the Government to prevent the Tea Party from saving his bacon. Things should get funny around Thanksgiving when he wants to shut it down and the Tea Party refuses. He will be stuck with the consequences! Think all those people who get stuck with the Tax for being uninsured on April 15, 2014 will be in a more forgiving mood come November? Little animals shouldn’t play in a Cat’s litterbox it might not be healthy.

    Comment by Catseye — October 17, 2013 @ 10:07 pm - October 17, 2013

  85. No offense meant Dan and Bruce and everyone else who works on the site!

    Comment by Catseye — October 17, 2013 @ 10:09 pm - October 17, 2013

  86. The IRS is mighty and awesome. But with all the illegal aliens that dodge around undetected by BIG government, how will the IRS ever be able to round up even a modest number of the people who didn’t enroll in Obamacare?

    Speaking of which, how do you squeeze blood out of a turnip? Even if the Obamacare fine were to be $1.68, how will the IRS get it out of the crack dealer on the corner or the homeless guy buying the crack?

    The whole Obamacare fiasco is like a lemonade stand dream gone wild. But the ideologues are so wound up and full of chattering points that it takes a government shut-down and a Ted Cruz to break through their pie in the sky, dreamscape bubble of rationale and speculation.

    But wait! Ted and the TEA Party buffoons have been side-lined and all is well with the world. (Instructions from Obama: The jury will disregard what they are thinking deep down inside.)

    Comment by heliotrope — October 18, 2013 @ 9:59 am - October 18, 2013

  87. From Heliotropes comment # 78:

    A vast majority of “takers” don’t understand the “slight” nor do they encounter it. The welfare and proud of it crowd are not amenable to anything rising above a blatant bride or demagoguery that massages them.

    Reagan persuaded some of them to vote for him. Not a sizable amount, but enough. Every vote makes a difference. And how did he do it? By not being petty and insulting, and speaking to everyone, not just his base. You guys aught to try it some time.

    Low information voters are hardly listening to Rush Limbaugh. If they did, they would no longer be “low information voters.” And the whole man on the street late-night comedy idiot skits would fall flat.

    Good to know I’m not a “low information voter”.

    I want one bullet proof example of where anyone insists on the hyperbolic, baroque standard of insisting that “share all of your values and principles.

    OK. … And OK.

    Google the term “Scozzafavaed” which refers to just one specific purge..

    Could you make the challenge harder next time?

    The clear fact is that only doughboy, would-be bullies structure such under-powered broadsides from outside of possible range.

    “Would-be bullies”… Oh! You poor poor victim. Another card Conservatives now pull out of the deck when they think it’s convenient.

    Think your stuff through, Sonicfrog. At best you are frothing and spraying spittle.

    No spittle here. Just pointing out that your faction needs to be smarter and do a better job.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 1:02 pm - October 18, 2013

  88. Oh! You poor poor victim.

    This is from the limp-wristed, phony libertarian who pisses and wails two octaves above mezzo soprano when he comes here and gets his ass kicked and pleads to this blogs owners to ban people who ‘hoort his feewings’.

    Tough guy.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 18, 2013 @ 1:29 pm - October 18, 2013

  89. Great response Jman… That really showed me.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 1:42 pm - October 18, 2013

  90. Now, what is your take on the results of the shutdown failure?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 1:43 pm - October 18, 2013

  91. Reagan persuaded some of them to vote for him. Not a sizable amount, but enough. Every vote makes a difference. And how did he do it? By not being petty and insulting, and speaking to everyone, not just his base. You guys aught to try it some time.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 1:02 pm – October 18, 2013

    And Sonicfrog, the Obama Party and the people like yourself who are screaming at the Tea Party demonized Reagan as a senile, cruel, and vindictive person who wanted poor children to starve, the elderly to be eating cat food, and for gays to all be rounded up and put in concentration camps to die, and are still doing so to this day.

    As I said above, the fallacy of appealing to authority becomes even more hilarious when you appeal to authorities that you were previously demonizing — and it gets even better when you are STILL demonizing them.

    And then we get to this.

    Google the term “Scozzafavaed” which refers to just one specific purge..

    Scozzafava endorsed and supported the Obama Party candidate.

    Why on earth should the Republican Party support and keep in place someone who endorses and supports the Obama Party?

    And that leads us to this:

    “Would-be bullies”… Oh! You poor poor victim. Another card Conservatives now pull out of the deck when they think it’s convenient.

    Why is that a problem, Sonicfrog?

    After all, gay-sex liberals like yourself scream all the time about being “bullied”.

    If you want to pretend that we’re all equal, conservatives have every right to complain about being bullied, same as you do.

    But if you want to admit that conservatives are superior and should suck it up and take punishment while gay liberals like you are pathetic sniveling little children who can’t, we’re fine with that too.

    Just say conservatives and Tea Partiers are better people who should be held to a higher set of standards than you and your fellow gay-sex liberals, Sonicfrog. Just say that conservatives and Tea Partiers are morally superior and better people who should do better, and that liberals, especially gay and lesbian liberals like yourself, cannot possibly be expected to meet the same standards.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 1:44 pm - October 18, 2013

  92. Scozzafava is a perfect example of what the establishment types do when they don’t get their way. When she didn’t get the nom, she endorsed the Democrat.

    Similarly, Richard Lugar told his donors not to support Richard Mourdock when he got snubbed (partly because of his lapdog relationship with Obama, but mostly because he hadn’t bothered to live in the state he represented for 30 years.)

    But it’s the Tea Party that’s “all or nothing,” and “refuses to think strategically.”

    Give the Democrats credit; they don’t f–k each other over like that.

    Comment by V the K — October 18, 2013 @ 1:54 pm - October 18, 2013

  93. Give the Democrats credit; they don’t f–k each other over like that.

    Yes. They don’t push a candidate to the curb to strive for purity because he or she might not share all the bases “principles”, especially when said candidate is likely to win.

    NDT… I was wondering when you were going to chime in and go for the win.

    What is your take on the results of the shutdown failure?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 2:21 pm - October 18, 2013

  94. Great response Jman…

    Yes, it was. It got to the heart of the matter; you chiding heliotrope for his use of the term ”would-be bullies” is sheer hypocrisy. But that’s par for the course with you, so no surprises there.

    That really showed me.

    There’s no ‘showing you’ anything.
    You’re an intractable little coward who learns nothing and is satisfied to unload on people who have far more principle and guts than you could possess in a dozen lifetimes, all the while showing your smarmy smugness because you claim that you occupy the ‘middle’ of the political spectrum.
    You’re a leftist…a libertarian leftist.
    And what’s a ‘libertarian leftist?
    A ‘libertarian leftist’ is a phony who pretends to be in favor of conservative principles like adherence to the Constitution, personal responsibility and limited government, but who, in practice, is perfectly in sync with the leftist agenda…as long as they’re not taxed to pay for it.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 18, 2013 @ 2:25 pm - October 18, 2013

  95. They don’t push a candidate to the curb to strive for purity because he or she might not share all the bases “principles”

    Your use of quotes around the word principles is a sure sign that you don’t have any, and that you’ll sell out (yourself and anyone else that’s convenient) in a New York second just to have what you would call a “win”.

    Gutless.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 18, 2013 @ 2:30 pm - October 18, 2013

  96. NDT… Funny you should mention concentration camps.

    Your link is from June 2012. That is hardly “to this day”

    THIS, however Much more today than June of 2012. :-)

    Tea Party… Winning!

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 2:31 pm - October 18, 2013

  97. Jman… What is your take on the results of the shutdown failure?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 2:31 pm - October 18, 2013

  98. The shutdown was a “failure” only because the towel was thrown in by the same spineless, gutless bastards that you adore: the ones who are more concerned with poll results and not having the leftist media say nasty things about them than they are with standing on principle (that item that you possess none of).
    You know, the crowd of smug elites who, like you, piss and shiite their drawers at the first sign of resistance…the folks you hold up as paragons of reason over rigidity, calculation over conviction, and capitulation over courage.
    No wonder you have your head buried in their crotches.

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 18, 2013 @ 2:41 pm - October 18, 2013

  99. Yes. They don’t push a candidate to the curb to strive for purity because he or she might not share all the bases “principles”, especially when said candidate is likely to win.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 2:21 pm – October 18, 2013

    Two words: Joe Lieberman.

    But that’s okay. Your point is to bash and attack the Tea Party, not be consistent on principles or anything.

    THIS, however Much more today than June of 2012. :-)

    Tea Party… Winning!

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 2:31 pm – October 18, 2013

    So what? Tea Party opponents and gay community leaders want gay conservatives to be stripped of the right to vote and commit suicide.

    Now watch as you squeal and cry and insist that you can’t be held accountable for another person’s words because they hold the same views as you on the Tea Party and they’re also a member of the gay community.

    I love playing this game. Your bigotry makes you so irrational that you can easily be maneuvered into showing what a complete and total hypocrite you are.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 2:43 pm - October 18, 2013

  100. NDT… I was wondering when you were going to chime in and go for the win.

    What is your take on the results of the shutdown failure?

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 2:21 pm – October 18, 2013

    What failure?

    It showed that desperate liberal bigots like yourself will use any excuse to dodge the obvious and blatant failure of your Obamacare, even to ludicrously saying you can’t report on it because you can only concentrate on one thing at a time.

    It showed that desperate liberal bigots like yourself OPPOSE spending cuts and want the sequester removed by any means necessary.

    It showed that desperate liberal bigots like yourself are so incompetent that you couldn’t even prioritize payments in the event of the debt ceiling not being raised — something which the Bush administration NEVER threatened when you and your fellow desperate liberal bigots tried to block debt ceiling increases before.

    It showed that desperate liberal bigots like yourself were screaming that you had “no money” even as you were spending millions and millions of dollars to barricade and put armed guards at memorials.

    It showed that desperate liberal bigots like yourself didn’t mean a word you said in 2006 about “responsibility” and “failure of leadership” and whatnot the last time the debt ceiling came up.

    You don’t see any of that, Sonicfrog, because you are a bigot. You hate and loathe the Tea Party, and you are stupid enough to enable Obama out of both your hatred and your selfishness.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 2:48 pm - October 18, 2013

  101. OK. … And OK.

    Google the term “Scozzafavaed” which refers to just one specific purge..

    Read much?

    You said ALL and then posted to one.

    The point is, Soncifrog, liberals typically lard their hyperbole with weighted crap that won’t float.

    You wrote that conservatives require others to comply with ““share all of your values and principles.” That is pure silliness. Do you think that everyone labeled conservative share all the same convictions, values, principles? Hello! They are so monolithic that seldom is heard a discouraging word and they play patty cake all the live long day?

    Do you mean that all conservatives are by definition opposed to gay marriage?

    Really, that is a pathetic point of logic to be arguing.

    Comment by heliotrope — October 18, 2013 @ 3:18 pm - October 18, 2013

  102. The Andrew Sullivanization of SonicFrog is complete.

    Next, he’ll be lecturing us about Sarah Palin’s uterus.

    Comment by V the K — October 18, 2013 @ 4:17 pm - October 18, 2013

  103. Do you think that everyone labeled conservative share all the same convictions, values, principles? Hello!

    No. I don’t. But when they don’t, the rabid wing of the party, now represented by the Tea Party, kicks them to the curb. And not on fiscal matters either. Jon Huntsman was certainly more fiscally conservative than either Michelle Backmann or, especially Rick Santorum! But Huntsman got no support at all because he didn’t sign a stupid petition to posture and show off him principles! Yeah, he was the ambassador to China under the current President, but he was still more fiscally conservative than half the guys who stayed in it primaries.

    Problem was… He wasn’t a True Conservative! He was… Eek! A RINO!!!!

    That’s just one of many examples of why the Tea Party has become the farce that it is.

    PS. NDT. Thanks for the Lieberman reminder. I rescind my comment on # 93.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 4:49 pm - October 18, 2013

  104. Uh huh, Sonicfrog.

    Just like you and your fellow Obama liberals treated Ronald Reagan with such respect when he was in office.

    The pattern continues. McCain was “moderate” right up until he ran against Obama. Romney was “moderate” right up until he ran against Obama. You and your fellow bigot liberals said you wanted these “moderates” — and then you turned around and demonized them.

    What the Tea Party has realized is that you are a malicious and malignant liar who will say anything to get your way and then turn around and do the opposite. You and your disgusting ilk want the government to punish those you hate and give their earnings to you, and that’s ultimately what you support in every case. If Huntsman did anything else, you would turn around and demonize HIM as extremist and radical.

    PS. NDT. Thanks for the Lieberman reminder. I rescind my comment on # 93.

    Oh no you don’t.

    You screamed that these “purges” showed that the party in question which shares your anti-Tea Party views was extremist and radical and bigoted.

    Now you’re either going to call your fellow anti-Tea Party folk extremist, radical, and bigoted, or you’re exposed as a hypocrite.

    You want “equality”, Sonic. Either hold your fellow anti-Tea Party bigots similarly accountable or admit that bigots like you and they cannot meet the standards you demand of the Tea Party and are thus inferior.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 5:08 pm - October 18, 2013

  105. Um… I voted for Reagan both times.

    Now you’re either going to call your fellow anti-Tea Party folk extremist, radical, and bigoted, or you’re exposed as a hypocrite.

    Libertarians! You’re hypocrites.

    Oh… Do you mean the Democrats? Seeing that I’m not a done of those, your latest rant is mute.

    Another “WINNING” for NDT.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 5:47 pm - October 18, 2013

  106. The shutdown was a “failure” only because the towel was thrown in by the same spineless, gutless bastards…

    But that was inevitable. That’s why this is so dumb. Because you guys can get anyone to ally with you, you know, actually do politics in the political theater, because you work so hard to drive anyone who is not pure of principle away, you were going to lose.

    And, predictably, you did. You WON’T GET WHAT YOU WANT without getting allies. And you won’t get allies as long as your wing of the party continues to be jerks.

    I know you guys want to be right so so bad, and the echo chamber here makes it seem like you’re winning… But in the real world, the one where votes are counted and policy is set, you’re not. The shutdown may actually be the final nail in the coffin for Virginia’s Cuccinelli and, unbelievably, professional huckster Terry McAullife may win because of it.

    We’ll see what happens there

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 6:01 pm - October 18, 2013

  107. LMAO.

    Why, Sonicfrog, do you think we would ever be stupid enough to believe that you would ally with us?

    You hate Republicans, you hate conservatives, and you hate Tea Partiers. All you do is rant and scream and bash and go on about how awful all of these people are.

    And then hilariously, when confronted with the failure of your Obamacare, you scream that it’s the Republicans’ fault for distracting the country with the shutdown.

    You aren’t a rational person, Sonicfrog. You’re a bigot. You have never said one positive or friendly thing about the Tea Party or Tea Partiers. You have ranted and screamed and namecalled and branded them as stupid and terrorists, and you seriously think that’s persuasive?

    What the Tea Party has realized is that you are an unprincipled and malicious liar who does nothing but attack them while defending and supporting worse behavior from Barack Obama and your fellow liberals. Why should they care what you think? You’re an unwinnable moron who only wants to hurt them.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 6:12 pm - October 18, 2013

  108. The shutdown may actually be the final nail in the coffin for Virginia’s Cuccinelli and, unbelievably, professional huckster Terry McAullife may win because of it.

    We’ll see what happens there

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 6:01 pm – October 18, 2013

    If people are stupid enough to vote for McAuliffe, I don’t care what they think.

    McAuliffe is a liar and a criminal. The fact that you equivocate and spin and make excuses for him, Sonicfrog, shows that you’re really nothing more than an unprincipled bigot.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 6:15 pm - October 18, 2013

  109. Let’s challenge the Sonicwhore to actually make his argument for why people should vote for McAuliffe rather than Cuccinelli.

    Seriously. I want to see this. I want to see the Sonicwhore melt down as he lays out all of their positions side-by-side and twists himself into a pretzel to defend why people should vote for the statist crony-capitalism criminal McAuliffe.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 6:16 pm - October 18, 2013

  110. Meanwhile, Sonicfrog and littlewhoremike’s fellow “pragmatic, good governance” liberals are calling for the arrest and imprisonment of Republicans.

    As Instapundit brilliantly and laconically puts it: “Because these people are making plain how they think, and what they’d do if they had the power to. Take it seriously, because they do.”

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 6:46 pm - October 18, 2013

  111. LMAO.

    Why, Sonicfrog, do you think we would ever be stupid enough to believe that you would ally with us?

    You’re stupid because you don’t. Here’s what I wrote and did when the Tea Party first formed. Quote”

    I Just Joined The American Tea Party!. I left the sham of the Republican Party two years ago. Right now they are trying to reclaim the image of fiscal conservatives, but sorry, I judge you by how you act, not by what you say, especially now that you’re out of power. You had six years in power, holding the House and Presidency, and you showed that a chick with a dead brain is more important than the financial health of the country. and yes, it also means cutting defense spending. Democrats, you suck too!!!!! If you could find it in your hearts to streamline the system, get Government to run much more efficiently – that means firing administrators, getting rid of redundant programs, means testing for safety net benefits, and eliminating onerous federal regulations that the states and local governments could do better (education anyone) – you could have many of the social programs you want, for a fraction of the cost. But instead you force that odoriferous pork package you call the stimulus package down our throats, a bill you didn’t even bother to read, full of crap you haven’t been able to get in the last thirty years, now admit that it might not work, and tell us we may need to pass another 1.2 trillion dollar worth of debt. And what is the result? The Secretary of State is forced to BEG CHINA to keep buying our debt, as if they don’t own enough already! Pathetic!!!!

    I am sick of both major political parties. I don’t care about all the social / religious crap on either side of the isle. I just want a party or leaders that be fiscally responsible – Period!

    That was February 23, 2009. Here is the link if you want to check out the date.

    I’ve softened up on my opinion of the stimulus bill… A little. It didn’t, and never could, save the economy, but it did act as a buffer to prevent a worse slide. I stand by everything else to this day.

    I left the Tea Party when it became obvious that it was not going to be as much about fiscal conservatism as it was a perfect tool for a faction of the right who wanted to take a shortcut back to power after the losses due to the Bush years, without taking responsibility for their own mismanagement during the Bush years, when the Republican Party controlled the House, Senate,and the Presidency.

    Once again, I ask… Where are the calls to undue the various spending programs Bush and the Republican congress implemented during the 6 years they were firmly in control????

    Dept of Homeland Security? Nope.

    Onerous Patriot Act, which is costing us more than money, it’s costing us our individual privacy…. Nope.

    Medicare – D? Nope.

    NCLB???? If any of the Tea Party Presidential candidates ran on repealing that, I missed if. And I’m not talking about a soundbite either. I mean ran on that as part of the platform.

    Some of these you actually could have gotten done. But you didn’t, because you like big government when it fits your own agenda.

    But, I’m not going to bother responding further, because you guys are so focused on getting the attack in and WINNING, you never even try to listen to anyone with a differing opinion because that person is, in your eyes, an “adversary”.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 6:50 pm - October 18, 2013

  112. The fact that you equivocate and spin and make excuses for him, Sonicfrog, shows that you’re really nothing more than an unprincipled bigot.

    Really???? Me saying “The shutdown may actually be the final nail in the coffin for Virginia’s Cuccinelli and, unbelievably, professional huckster Terry McAullife may win because of it.” is equivocate and spin for McAullife???

    Really?????????????????????

    Another WINNING for NDT.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 6:56 pm - October 18, 2013

  113. [Jeff adds: You didn't actually look the examples, did you? I figured you wouldn't. In the second one, the Queen is captured by a pawn for "no strategic advantage in return". Watch the video up to 2:45, stop it there (don't go on) and try to say, in your own words, the supposed strategic advantage. Then continue and see who won.

    Yes I watched the vid. You’re example proves my point. If you keep watching the video, At 2:49 he explains the strategic reason why he sacrificed the Queen.

    And I’m already on record as saying this did help Cruz. But it was a disaster for the rest of the Republican party, and the Tea Party along with it.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 7:24 pm - October 18, 2013

  114. BTW… The “End Game”, for the shut-down strategy, as I see it, is getting more Tea Party candidates to challenge the moderates and “RINO’s”. But they could have done that without the shutdown. We already know who is more and who is less Conservative.

    Assuming many of the Tea Party candidates do eventually win the nominations, do you suppose the will have enough vote to win the general elections in areas where moderates dominate the voting block????

    See both Scozzofava and Leiberman for results of this strategy. You may win a few more seats. But you’ll probably end up giving more to the opposition.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 7:44 pm - October 18, 2013

  115. But, I’m not going to bother responding further,…

    But like a bad penny, you keep coming back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…and back…

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 18, 2013 @ 8:00 pm - October 18, 2013

  116. Because you guys can get anyone to ally with you

    And who have you gotten to ally with YOU, you coward?
    What ‘wins’ have you and yours racked up recently?

    Comment by Jman1961 — October 18, 2013 @ 8:06 pm - October 18, 2013

  117. Once again, I ask… Where are the calls to undue the various spending programs Bush and the Republican congress implemented during the 6 years they were firmly in control????

    Lmao.

    And as the desperate bigot liberal always does when cornered, he starts blaming Bush.

    The hilarity in this is that Sonicfrog himself demonizes as Nazis and terrorists and does all in his power to stop those people who are demanding a stop to Obama’s Bush-on-steroids spending.

    Again, what do we expect? The bigot screams about Cuccinelli, but absolutely melts down to explain why he supports and endorses McAuliffe.

    This is the reality, Sonic. You are an anti-Tea Party bigot who is desperately flailing and trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance required to criticize the Tea Partus fiscal conservativism while cheering for criminals like Terry McAuliffe and Barack Obama.

    Again, why would anyone believe a bigot like you has the Tea Party’s best interest in mind? Obama has proven that you’re a whore who can be purchased by anyone who panders to your anti-conservative, anti-Tea Party bigotry.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 8:41 pm - October 18, 2013

  118. Assuming many of the Tea Party candidates do eventually win the nominations, do you suppose the will have enough vote to win the general elections in areas where moderates dominate the voting block????

    See both Scozzofava and Leiberman for results of this strategy. You may win a few more seats. But you’ll probably end up giving more to the opposition.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 18, 2013 @ 7:44 pm – October 18, 2013

    Ah yes, the vaunted “moderates ” like Sonicfrog, who every three years go on and on about how they want “fiscal responsibility” and “civility”, and then in the fourth vote for the Obama Party member that promises them more free stuff and to punish the people they hate.

    And then, like Sonic, when caught with the government teat shoved in their mouth, start screaming and crying and blaming conservatives for being so mean and forcing them to it.

    Skip the crap, Sonic. You’re a looter, moocher, and taker. You don’t want “fiscal responsibility”; you want the IRS and the government to punish those mean and awful Tea Partiers and “rich” people who have more than you do. Your votes, your constant screaming and bashing the Tea Party, and your unwillingness to hold the leftists who hold your leash accountable for anything even as you berate the Tea Party show it clearly.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 8:51 pm - October 18, 2013

  119. But, I’m not going to bother responding further,…

    YIKES, how many times have I heard THAT from sf? ROFL :-)

    But seriously…Everybody’s made their points, said what they needed to. Cool it from here please, especially with the names.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — October 18, 2013 @ 9:01 pm - October 18, 2013

  120. And to continue, people like Sonicfrog show why chasing “moderates” is futile; at the end of the day, they vote for whoever promises to turn government into their own personal free sh*t and vengeance vending machine.

    That is not a rational position. Indeed, it runs exactly contrary to the American principles of good government. But it is immediately gratifying, and in our increasingly- infantilized society, that’s what people want.

    Thus, conservatives need not bother with “moderates”. The only things to which they respond are ones we know society cannot sustain. Instead, we should stick to our fundamental tenets: you should earn what you have, you can keep what you earn, your degree of charitable giving is your choice, and that the best government is that which does the least required.

    That has no appeal to “moderates” like Sonic. And we need not care.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — October 18, 2013 @ 9:06 pm - October 18, 2013

  121. Well, the GOP sure has done just awesome with moderate candidates that appeal to morderate voters.

    John McCain (2008)
    Mitt Romney (2012)
    Scott Brown (2012)
    Nick Berg (2012)
    Connie Mack (2012)
    Tommy Thompson (2012)
    George Allen (2006, 2012)
    Denny Rehberg (2012)
    Rob McKenna (2012)
    Carly Fiorina (2010)

    Comment by V the K — October 18, 2013 @ 10:00 pm - October 18, 2013

  122. Definition of Irony: A Libertarian lecturing the Tea Party on how to win elections, form alliances, and not let ideology stand in the way of pragmatism.

    Comment by V the K — October 19, 2013 @ 11:12 am - October 19, 2013

  123. V… Why doesn’t the Libertarian party any win elections???

    Because they are too ideologically rigid and don’t make alliances.

    It’s not irony. It’s called a lifetime of watching them fail. It’s called a lesson learned.

    And yes Jman. I did respond. V brought up an interesting point that deserved a response. .

    Comment by Sonicfrog — October 19, 2013 @ 1:16 pm - October 19, 2013

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