State labor investigators have determined a Gresham bakery violated the civil rights of a same-sex couple when it refused to make a cake for the women’s wedding.
Since when is access to cake a civil right? It’s almost like this Same Sex Marriage thing was less about getting benefits for same sex couples, and more about getting to use the power of the state to punish the unsupportive.
I know! It’s as bad as those fascists in the South who thought that coffee and front-of-the-bus seats were a civil right.
It always gives me a chuckle when privileged white gay people whine that their plight is the same as blacks in the Jim Crow South.
I find it amusing that the same white liberals who invoke the civil rights movement are the ones screaming the n-word at and calling for lynchings of black people who don’t vote their way.
Once you realize that hmm_contrib and his fellow gay liberals actually are racist bigots who, just like their Democrat forbears, hunt down and want to murder black people who don’t vote their way, their invoking of the civil rights movement only shows what duplicitous liars, bigots, and hypocrites they are.
So, the Government should be able to deny me the right to buy an AR-15 or a 20 oz soda… but it’s wrong for a private business to not make me a cake?
hmm, there’s a big difference here. You are telling someone they have to participate in your function or ceremony. Making a wedding cake can be an involved process where you work closely with a client, from planning to set-up at the venue. And if you are going to force someone to participate (why you would want the bad juju of someone under duress at your ‘ceremony’, I’ll never know), will such coercion and force also include any and all Frankenbrides, one might also choose not to serve because of personality or artistic clashes?
I doubt these bakers deny selling their goods to anyone in general – desserts, pastries, donuts. Weddings are a whole ‘nother ballgame.
So Hmm_contrib is fine with government force when it benefits him, even when it does things he opposes (Jim Crow forcing businesses to have divided counters bad, Jim Crow forcing people to make cakes good)
So noted.
it’s not about cake, it’s about control. The left is so obsessed with society conforming to their view of the world. I wonder how they would react if there were a TEA Party President and both Houses of Congress with a large conservative majority, who would ruled that Bible study is required for all persons. Would they conform?
The thing most people forget is that the Jim Crow separation was not by individual choice but by laws mandated by the racist Democratic controlled government.
Roberto, can you find and describe the section of the Constitution that would provide support for your idea of what a”Tea Party President…” could lawfully do?
Do you here argue that religious views can be incorporated into a cake? Do you argue that a business which benefits from governmental regulations that limit competitors to those who meet sanitary codes, payroll dates and amounts, etc while in agreement with anti-discrimination laws, can deny a customer a product available to all other citizens?
What would be the basis of such an argument? A matter of “taste”?
Annie, a review of the role of bakers and wedding celebrations reveals a cut off that does not lead to your notion of such a relationship. A baker works in-shop. The customer or an agent picks up the cake. And that is the end of the baker’s job.
I find it amusing that the same white liberals who invoke the civil rights movement are the ones screaming the n-word at and calling for lynchings of black people who don’t vote their way.
Once you realize that hmm_contrib and his fellow gay liberals actually are racist bigots who, just like their Democrat forbears, hunt down and want to murder black people who don’t vote their way
I find it amusing that a) you think I call people niggers, b) you think I call for people to be lynched or otherwise murdered, c) you think I’m white.
Michael, in many shops, there are a range of choices to be had regarding wedding cakes. From samples in a book to elaborate custom creations. You work closely with your clients in the planning of either and you deliver and set-up at the venue. Places like Walmart, do not deliver. Most other places, at least around here which can’t be that different from any other place, do.
I worked in bakeries. I decorated cakes. I’ve not seen anyone denied off-the-shelf bakery goods. I have seen those wanting cakes made for them denied for a variety of reasons. Wedding cakes are involved and time consuming. You want a good working relationship with your client.
You, obviously, have no idea what you are talking about.
You, obviously, have no idea what you are talking about.
That’s our Michael!
Annie, can you tell us of 3 reasons for denying a customer’s order of a wedding cake that you know of? And when you last worked in a bakery? And in which ways a wedding of a same sex couple would differ from that of a heterosexual couple? Will a baker be involved in some of the bedroom activities in fact or merely in the baker’s mind? Same sex couples, as proven for those with Faith, are made in the image of God just as are heterosexuals. So what’s the basis for discrimination?
Juan, yours is not a name that is much associated with Jim Crow issues. But you do know that the Democrats who upheld the tenets of separate but equal, separate drinking faucets, entrances, rear of the bus seating, etc are the Tea Party adherents of 2008-2014? Right?
Citation needed.
“Juan, yours is not a name that is much associated with Jim Crow issues. ”
Bigot…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Williams
Idiot… Citation given….
It does amaze me how many gay couples select heterosexual providers of wedding services. I am sure they “select” them know just what the outcome might be – the telltale “fish” door decal. Why not go to a supplier with a “rainbow” decal on the door?
On our trip to South Beach last year, the only section of the beach that was “cordoned” was the gay section. There wasn’t a Catholic section, a Hispanic section, a Jewish section. Just a gay section. Like it wasn’t easy to spot the gay section with the old queens in thongs and sporting nipple rings what looked to be very used up bodies.
I wonder what the reaction of the gay crowd would have been if the city had made a designation for the gay section? I never understood why the gay left preaches that they want to be treated like everyone else, yet they live/work/play in self imposed gay ghettos.
Oh look more lies from the liar.
It’s not Tea Partiers keeping kids in failing schools. It’s Democrats.
“It’s not Tea Partiers keeping kids in failing schools. It’s Democrats.”
The logic fail of Holder is this : Most of the kids seeking better schools are black. This leaves the failing school less diverse. Therefore, the voucher system has the effect of segregation.
I think “Michael” is the screen name for Eric Holder.
Tnns, do you mean to say that Juan Williams is posting on this forum? Have you any statistics on the number of bakeries in any one of the several states that have legalized same sex marriages that will allow the choice you mention?
Do you argue from the point of view of a gay person or of a heterosexual conservative?
Do you argue that the gay individuals whom you mention have a beach of their own would be generally safe if they appeared dispersed on each of the areas you mention? The city you mention is visited by men and women whose values are formed in the areas from which they came. A gay man, no matter his political values, is not appreciated by all in the same way.
Especially since I’m right on all three counts.
After all, you would be screaming at the “progressives” who I demonstrated do all of the above if it were otherwise.
9.Roberto, can you find and describe the section of the Constitution that would provide support for your idea of what a”Tea Party President…” could lawfully do?
According to Barack Obama and the Barack Obama Party, the Constitution does not limit the President’s power at all and the President can unilaterally decree or demand whatever he wants without the consent of Congress.
So Michael, your attempt to argue that the Constitution limits the powers of the President is false, by your own Barack Obama’s statements. Can you provide examples of powers such as suspending laws at will, ignoring enforcement, and the like that you would oppose a Tea Party President wielding since you have endorsed Obama wielding them?
Ah, so you admit regulations are not about protecting the public, but are about limiting competition for businesses that can purchase influence.
Michael, do you realize how bigoted your statements sound?
Do you know how angry I get at the implied racism of Affirmative Action and other programs like it. The racism that implies, “Brown and black people need extra help because they aren’t as smart as white people”. That the kind of racism and bigotry I get from the Democratic Party and Leftists like yourself. Not the Tea Party.
Juan:
I’m going out on a limb here, but my guess is that self-awareness is not one of Michael “special snowflake’s” strengths.
Juan, there is the possibility that you infer what is not at all implied. How have you personally been affected by any aspect of Affirmative Action? Have you been forced to attend the college of your choice? Perhaps you have been required to accept a rate of pay that exceeded your expectations.
You have mentioned that you are a small businessman. Is that business the only one that you could found, given the heritage suggested by your moniker or name?
When did you move out from under the bridge, you racist troll?
Juan, what prevents an honest exchange of facts between the two of us? You are owner/operator of a small business. I am not. I can benefit from learning what affects a small business such as yours. Conservatism depends for its life on facts. Otherwise the idea is just an undefined opinion.
By the way, the bakery and the rejected customers had a relationship common to community bakers and members of a community. The two women had purchased goods from the bakery on other occasions. They were known to the bakery owners.
Michael the liar, having been called out, asks for an honest exchange? Bwahahaahahahahaha.
If that is the case Michael, then it shows they are not being discriminated against because they are gay. It tells me that the bakers do not want to participate in their ceremony. It also tells me these gals are vindictive and not very nice. Why would you force someone to do something for you, against their will, for an intimate occasion that you would want to have nothing but good wishes from all involved?
Is your next move to get behind shutting down churches because they violate ‘the law’?
Annie, I’m sure Michael would love for the “wrong kind of churches” to be closed down, you know those “hateful” ones that actually believe the Bible and adhere to it’s principles. I’m so glad you said something about wedding cakes being a process. We worked with our baker, had several meetings, and she delivered and assembled our cake. We could not have put it together ourselves as there were multiple pieces and real flowers used to decorate it which had to be arranged. I think Michael (who doesn’t know much about anything including small businesses, healthcare, economics etc.) thinks people just buy a pre-made sheet cake out of a large refrigerator at a grocery store, have the names written on it in icing and walk out of the store, cake under their arms.
Troll Michael, there is only one way to learn about the troubles of running a small business. Start one, run it for three to four years, then talk to me. Otherwise, STFU!
Wonder if Michael and hmmm___ contrib would have a problem with the Government forcing a gay-owned bakery to make a cake for the Westboro Baptists, or a Black-Owned bakery to make a cake for the KKK.
The other irony is that the legal code of ethics allows lawyers to reject gay clients if they are morally opposed to gayness.
I love how Michael, repeating the words of Barack Obama and the Barack Obama Party, demonstrates how the Barack Obama Party and Barack Obama himself are completely and totally racist bigots.
Or better yet – should a Muslim bakery in Dearborn, MI be forced to make it for a gay Jewish couple?
Regards,
Peter H.
“Tnns, do you mean to say that Juan Williams is posting on this forum? ”
This is far and away your dumbest statement ever. Even dumber than your “percentage addition” statement.
Tnns, you introduced the name Juan Williams for some reason. I supposed you might be an informed poster.
runni, the force of the Bible verses that you avoid are the very forces that make opinions based on Bible verses without effect. The very first church council that refused to stone a disobedient child or a woman caught in adultery, created an end to the value of God’s Word in deciding human issues.
Annie, a company such as that Oregon bakery can as easily have said “We are booked for that date” as to have embroiled themselves in this issue. It is not impossible that the bakery owners are being used by a lobbying group for development of a donor list. The two women were customers of the bakery on previous occasions and served without complaint.
Peter H, if you are a member of any of the groups mentioned by VtheK and yourself, why not make a test run by approaching the appropriate bakery?
Certainly there may be posters here who are gay and patriotic and conservative and are bakers or know of such bakeries. The key question would seem to be: is their Visa account valid?
“Tnns, you introduced the name Juan Williams for some reason. I supposed you might be an informed poster.”
Seriously, reread my post and think really, really hard. I know you can do it!
“The very first church council that refused to stone a disobedient child or a woman caught in adultery, created an end to the value of God’s Word in deciding human issues.”
“One Church speaks for all Churches”, says the godless liberal.
Really, so the very first liberal who molested a child made all liberals child molesters? Is that your logic?
” a company such as that Oregon bakery can as easily have said “We are booked for that date””
Why should they have to commit the sin of lying just to appease gay people?
The reverse of your statement, if this couple had been customers of over the counter service, how would the owners know they were gay? If you assume this couple knew the owner, then why would they have their cake made by a person of religion. Over the counter service has nothing to do with a religious concept. A marriage ceremony is a horse of a different color.
Most likely, this couple staked out the bakery. Made a few purchases then used those purchases against them in a lawsuit.
OK, Michael, how about forcing Muslim bakers to make the wedding cake for a gay couple? Why don’t you find an Islamic baker and ask him to bake the cake for your nuptials? And when he refuses, you better sue him and notify the state you live in that you have been a victim of a hate crime. Honestly, I can’t even call you a tool, because at least tools serve a useful purpose.
Lying comes easily to liberals. They lie all the time, and assume everyone else lies too.
Aside, my roomate had to have me come and get her from the doctor’s yesterday. The Caresource driver had a fit about having to transport Bones. (Her service dog)
I said, “He was Somali, wasn’t he.”
“Yes, how did you know?”
So we’ve now checked off that Mikey doesn’t know anything about the Bible, either.
Is there anything that Mikey has demonstrated any intellectual capability in whatsoever? All Mikey seems capable of doing is repeating leftist talking points. He’s clearly not very educated or rational, and in fact has already shown that he is a racist.
No, but watching him try is friggin’ hilarious.
@47.. I am gaining weight from all the chocolate and red wine I consume while reading his “entertainment”.
Hmm, not educated, talking about things he knows nothing about, lying…
Levi, is that you?
The downside is, there are millions like Michael; ignorant of facts but completely indoctrinated in the mythology of the left.
Blame that on television, V the K.
Blame that on television, V the K.
So we have here sets of men and occasionally a woman who are gay but conservative and members of conservative churches which stone disobedient children of church members as well as women who are accused of adultery. And if the woman accused of adultery is pregnant, and upon being given a liquid that will bring out of her the truth, will be killed along with the fetus. if the truth is yes she is an adulterer.
It is a rare human being who has not been told that a raise is not possible but later learning that one or more coworker did get a raise. It is a rare person who believes that he or she has been lied to by the individual whose position allowed the use of “right to the truth” regulation. The owner of a bakery can decide the extent of business possible by any means pleasing to that person.
I do wonder just exactly what kind of thinking can assign a religious value to a cake. Or to assembling a cake in a church or a hall or a private house. If the baker imagines that the act of assembling a cake is the same as experiencing the wedding night act, he or she has committed a proscribed error according to the scriptures.
Unfortunately, Mikey, you are a false prophet by the strictures of the Bible (1 John 4:1-6), and thus your interpretation of it carries no weight to Bible-believing Christians. Only antireligious bigots would support your views, and thus you indict your Obama Party as being antireligious bigots.
What you are doing is flinging feces to derail a thread. Worse, you are attempting to justify the antireligious bigotry and hate that requires you to use governmental power to force people to bake someone a wedding cake because you don’t like their religious beliefs and their freedom to exercise them. This type of thinking is foreign to logical and rational people who value the Constitution and individual freedom, but it is directly in line with fascist statism and an attempt to pervert government to force compliance with one’s personal beliefs.
In short, Mikey, you’re exposed again as a hypocrite who wants to use government to force people to follow your personal beliefs and punish those who don’t.
ND30, let us be clear now. Are you saying that the two women who wanted a wedding cake are not made in the image of God? Or that they are not members of a church in the same way that you are? What is your evidence for such statements?
The bakery owners violated the antidiscrimination law of the state of Oregon. The bakery owners are on the hook for attorney fees (except that they are represented pro bono by a group who uses such innocents to gather a donor list). The bakery owners lost the price of the service. The state lost its taxable portion of the sale. There is no win for any party in this kind of business. The bakery owners have retreated to their home where they will sell only to friends who know their phone number. And are members i9n good standing of their church.
By MICHAEL J. DE LA MERCED
January 23, 2014
DAVOS, Switzerland – When the World Economic Forum made “inclusiveness” one of its pillar themes, it was safe to assume the assembled corporate leaders would discuss economic issues.
But two of the busiest activist hedge fund managers on Wall Street spent 90 minutes on Thursday morning debating the state of gay, lesbian and transgender rights with an international array of activists. (You can watch video of the event.)
The financiers, Daniel S. Loeb of Third Point and Paul E. Singer of Elliott Management, were among the presenters and sponsors of the event. During their part of the debate, both men spoke of the seeming unlikelihood that prominent investors would take a stand on gay rights.
Mr. Singer recounted how his son told him he was gay at the age of 21, prompting him to examine the issue of gay rights. Despite being one of the biggest donors to the Republican party – as the host, the journalist Fareed Zakaria, jokingly put it, the financier is both politically conservative and “really rich” — he has become one of the most active same-sex marriage proponents in finance.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/dealbook/2014/01/23/wall-street-talks-gay-rights-at-davos/?tbm=nws&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=gay&oq=&gs_l=
I think it’s amusing that Singer shows how hypocritical the bigot rusty is, given that if Singer did not support gay-sex marriage, rusty and his fellow bigot Fareed Zakaria would be demonizing Singer as an awful person.
But again, we already know this. If you support gay-sex marriage, the bigot rusty, the bigot Fareed Zakaria, and the Obama Party do not care how much you steal or what laws you break.
Thus is the Obama Party and the gay-sex community that rusty represents exposed as a bunch of hypocrites.
Ah, so the bigot and liar is now invoking the womens’ religious beliefs while screaming and stomping his feet that other people shouldn’t be allowed to invoke THEIR religious beliefs.
Thus proving that Mikey really is nothing more than a bigot, liar, and hypocrite.
Yep. And had the state upheld these individuals’ right to religious freedom and association and stated that they were well within their rights to choose for whom they wished to bake cakes, they would still be a functioning business, employing people and paying taxes to the state.
So because of the selfish and bigoted lesbians and the state’s foolish laws, taxpayers lost and people became unemployed.
Thank you for so perfectly proving the point that so-called “antidiscrimination” laws damage society and business and result in increased unemployment and decreased tax receipts.
ND30, let us agree that neither of know anything about the religious beliefs of the two women. What we do know is that if any one is made in the image of God, then the two women are as well. The bakery owners surely believe themselves to have been made in the image of God. So can they deny that the two women are equally made in the image of God? And that all are brothers and sisters in Christ?
ND30, you are near making a statement that the bakers invested “soul” in their products to the extent that selling to two lesbians diminished the wholeness of the bakers. Is that a common finding in the business world? Did G Romney invest Mormonism in the Ramblers he approved of every so many years ago? Did Joseph Smith smile down from Heaven when a little car rolled into a customer’s driveway?
Oh, so that’s how you want to play.
Well then, let’s.
So by taking other Christians to court, the lesbians violated the Scriptures and Christian beliefs, and YOU violate the Scripture and Christian beliefs by supporting them.
The game you are playing is very simple, bigot Mikey; it is Alinsky, and it is attacking others by forcing them to live up to their books of rules.
It is easily short-circuited, as I did, by showing your OWN hypocrisy in regard to these books of rules you attempt to quote. And it is made particularly easy by your own lack of intelligence and irrational bigotry, which leads you to blunder into areas about which you know nothing.
Speaking of which:
Why yes, it is; indeed, Barack Obama, the Barack Obama Party, and the Barack Obama government state specifically that people cannot be forced to violate their religious beliefs in the process of doing their jobs and making a living.
Now, what we see clearly is that Barack Obama, the Barack Obama Party, and the Barack Obama government give preferential treatment and state approval to one set of religious beliefs while punishing another.
Why do you think Barack Obama believes that the Muslim faith should have preferential treatment and receive special privileges and dispensations from the government above all other, Mikey? Indeed, your Barack Obama has jailed people for directly criticizing the Prophet of Islam and in a stirring speech stated that “the future does not belong” to those who do so — statements and actions that are NOT made or carried out against the President’s own advisors and Obama Party leaders who specifically mock and denigrate Jesus Christ and Christians.
ND30, how in the world does something that happens in small town Oregon mutate into a national issue involving Mr Obama. I wonder if you mistake the jailing of a feller who violated his parole with some act of Mr Obama’s. You have a good many mixed up notions that you give free rent in your head.
Who on earth do you have in mind who has “denigrate Jesus Christ and Christians” and who has a national office? Particularly focus on small town Oregon.
ND30, can you tell us of one time when you let yourself be cheated and robbed as an act of your Christian beliefs? Did you seek the advice and counsel of your priest before you agreed to follow the words from 1 Corinthians?
My goodness, you ARE a stupid and incoherent one, aren’t you, Mikey?
I mean, I post the actual verses, and then you make this imbecilic statement.
The verses do not say you must ALWAYS allow yourself to be cheated and robbed, Mikey. That’s merely an attempt on your part to twist them to continue with your perverse Alinsky games, and is easily refuted by quoting them directly.
Moreover, Mikey, why won’t you hold the lesbians similarly accountable? You blather on about them being made in the image of God; why do you not similarly berate them for not following the Scripture?
Why won’t you follow your own rules and apply them equally, Mikey? A truly objective person would; is your refusal to do so proving that you are not objective and in fact are bigoted?
And then you hilariously try to back away from this one:
Don’t you remember what YOU said, imbecile?
You didn’t limit anything to “small town Oregon”. You invoked “the business world”, and you got your answer.
The problem here is that you were smacked with facts that implicate your bigoted Barack Obama and you are now desperately trying to obfuscate.
Moreover, you and your fellow Obama bigots screamed that every decision made by the Federal government during his term was Bush’s fault, so Obama is to blame for every decision made by the Federal government during HIS term. That would be what a non-racist person who was objective would do; does your treating Obama differently because of his skin color indicate that you are a racist?
And lastly, this:
The Obama Party and Obama supporters regularly allow criminals to violate parole repeatedly without jailing them.
Therefore, your attempt to obfuscate again is shown to be false. An objective person would admit that Obama’s jailing someone for criticizing Islam is not consistent with liberal principles and is in fact an example of preferential treatment for religion.
ND30, I wonder if you will provide a citation that will support your idea that Mr Obama had anything to do with the jailing of a parole violator anywhere in the world. And whether the parole violation had anything to do with Islam in any form.
The two lesbians in Oregon might be Children of Man. Such folks were known to exist at the time of the Fall, providing wives for those born to the fallen Children of God and leading directly to the existence of one ND30. The bakery shop owners have broken the scriptural direction to love neighbors as they love themselves + state law that they accepted when they took out a business license. And you have absolutely no skin in the game
By the way, do you have any thoughts on the notion that Satan has the power to create Angels? From whence can such power come?
Why Mikey, have you forgotten?
It has been conclusively shown that you do not read citations.
Since you don’t read them, you shall not receive them. Furthermore, since your response in being exposed was to maliciously attempt to lie about the citation and slander the author, a fact which also has been conclusively shown, it is clear that your demands for them are borne solely out of malice and are not relevant to any concern for objectivity or facts.
Of course, you will attempt to scream and cry and maliciously attack with your lies about how “real conservatives” present facts. We know that. It is the typical behavior of a malicious and vindictive child who is trying to derail threads and harm adults. But as we have shown, you are not a real conservative, nor do you have even the slightest acquaintance with facts or objectivity.
You are exposed.
Michael, you have no proof or knowledge of what is in the hearts of the bakers. Scripture tells us to love our neighbor and it also tells us to pull him aside when he sins and try to get him back on the path.
If anyone has broken with scripture, it would be the lesbians, first for their lifestyle and second for their malicious attack on another’s livelihood because they don’t want to participate or contribute to that lifestyle. Bullying is not a virtue.
And I’m pretty sure they started their business before the bullies changed the meaning of the word ‘marriage’ and enshrined it in state law which is violating the baker’s 1st Amendment rights.