A lot of gay people seem determined to live in a fantasy world of oppression; where everyone hates them and is only barely restrained from committing violence against them. The leadership of the Democrat Party and the gay rights movement fosters and encourages this delusion as it is both politically and monetarily valuable to them.
In this world of fantasy and delusion, Christians are nailing gay people to fenceposts every day while their churches cheer this on. But what do actual Christians … as opposed to deranged gays and their cynical leadership… have to say about violence against gay folk?
The Roman Catholic Church position: “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”
The United Methodist Church: ““We affirm that God’s grace is available to all. We will seek to live together in Christian community, welcoming, forgiving and loving one another, as Christ has loved and accepted us. We implore families and churches not to reject or condemn lesbian and gay members and friends…. Moreover, we support efforts to stop violence and other forms of coercion against all persons, regardless of sexual orientation.”
The Episcopal Church: “In 1976, the General Convention of the Episcopal Church declared that “homosexual persons are children of God who have a full and equal claim with all other persons upon the love, acceptance, and pastoral concern and care of the Church.”
The Southern Baptist Church: While wrestling with the issue of whether homosexuality is compatible with membership in the church, nowhere does the SBC call for gay people to be subjected to violence.
The LDS Church: “The Church has advocated for rights for same-sex couples regarding “hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.”7 In Salt Lake City, for example, the Church supported ordinances aimed at protecting gay residents from discrimination in housing and employment… We are to love one another. We are to treat each other with respect as brothers and sisters and fellow children of God, no matter how much we may differ from one another.”
In the real world, no Christian denomination advocates for violence against gay people. Not even the Westboro Baptist Street Theatre Troupe advocates violence against gay people.
“Homosexuality involves a filthy place and does not generate offspring. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of the homosexual. That is why, brothers, homosexuality carries the death penalty.”
I have a fresh batch of popcorn, my favorite soda and a bag of twizzlers as I await comments from James Edwards, Evan, et al.
There are none so blind as those who will not see. Good post but those who only regurgitate the latest prog line will miss the point.
Very good points by VtheK. Delineating obvious shifts by major US religions to accommodate fair behavior & societies current norms. I remember V mentioning that he’s taken a substantial interest in the sects of Christianity to find out what’s going on them & he’s obviously informed & keeps an eye out for the latest. Well done.
There are always going to be the petty among any one person, who belongs to any of the particular groups in the US; who base their self perceptions on that which they perceive hates or persecutes them. Christianity as a belief system has been guilty in the past, but their leaders have gone to great lengths to be inclusive, in order to survive as organizations. However; as any given person can’t hide their anger sets & pettiness behind the bible, it’s never really been religion which is at fault in discriminating against a gay individual. It’s the parent, person, leader who is worthy of blame. But, who cares? Since everyone has someone that hates them & their beliefs, it’s all a moot point & someone that is balanced has gotten over it all, in order to succeed in life.
One can only hope that non-christian religions will someday follow suit, in sidelining sexual orientation as an issue.
This is a little off topic. I’m not gay, but I like reading the posts on your site, because the posters have a lot of integrity. This post is one example.
Maybe Evan is still foaming at the mouth after reading my comment on the incest article. The only form of gay sex that’s illegal in Germany, where there is legal prostitution and bestiality brothels.
John, you don’t have to be gay to enjoy this site. I’m not gay, either, but it is so refreshing to hear from those that are view that substantially agree with my own.
Victimism is the fuel of the Left, so it’s crucial to keep the oppression narrative going. In race matters, the motherlode of victimism and model for all the others, that’s why we now have “White privilege” and “microagression.” Victim groups must always shout out their victimization, even when it’s faded or gone, or was illusory in the first place. Like US Jews who’d have us believe that being unwelcome at a country club with the other rich people (!) was somehow a step away from Dachau.
While various denominations are following the message of Jesus, to love one another as I have loved you, it took them awhile to reach that point. Hierarchies, and synods, had to be influenced by gays who love their denomination and worked for a change, by forming organizations such as Dignity for Roman Catholics, Integrity by Episcopalians, Gay LDS. Evangelicals Concerned. Even though the late Jerry Falwell said, “we love the homosexual but we hate the sin of homosexuality.”
After Anita Bryants crusades, rednecks formed kill a queer for Christ. Irocally about seventeen years later one or both of her twin sons came out gay.
I think I may swing over to the local Episcopalian church one of these days. From the sounds of it, they do high church services from time to time. And I think my entrenched Catholic sensibilities can tolerate a female curate. Though I make no promises that I won’t ask her, “But Mother, couldn’t we make the outfit a tad more feminine? Maybe veil or a skirt?” 😉
#4 John: You’re not alone. I’ve found the owners of this site to be very welcoming–and I come here for the same reason you do: some of the best commentary in the Right-side blogosphere.
Come here for the posts, and definitely stay for the comments section. 🙂
On Topic: Thanks, V the K for publishing the stances of all the major sects of Christianity on this subject. I’ve tried for years to tell people (like our resident lefties) that Christianity does not teach or accept hatred of gays.
If you don’t mind, I plan on stealing this post and using it mercilessly on ignorant lefties in the future (with attribution, of course).
Your are most welcome, AF Vet.
Sean L, the priestess takes getting used to. I haven’t yet, but the Catholic veneration of the Virgin Mary I find off-putting. (I’m not saying it’s wrong, I am saying I am not comfortable with it–there’s a difference.)
What the gaystapo mistakenly on purpose believe is that a lack of total, enthusiastic support does not equal hate. In the real world, this is not true.
Thanks for the summary of Christian positions, V the K. I have not looked, but I’ll bet that the main Jewish organizations would have a similar range of responses as well.
Kevin, I don’t know where you live but in Los Angeles, there is one of the first gay synagogues, Beth Chayim Chadashim. I fellow club member who is Jewish and gay said, as a linguist, he wouldn’t attend a synagogue whose name is grammatically incorrect. For that reason he thought they weren’t truly serious.
I didn’t address Judaism for the simple reason that the deranged gay left seldom accuses Jews of wanting to do violence against them. The bashing and hatred is invariably directed at Christians.
Via the Associated Press:
Catholic bishops are showing unprecedented openness to accepting the real lives of many Catholics today, saying gays have gifts to offer the church and should be accepted and that there are “positive” aspects to a couple living together without being married. A two-week meeting of bishops on family issues arrived at its halfway point Monday with a document summarizing the closed-door debate so far. No decisions were announced, but the tone of the preliminary document was one of almost-revolutionary acceptance, rather than condemnation, with the aim of guiding Catholics toward the ideal of a lasting marriage.
The bishops said gays had “gifts and qualities” to offer and asked rhetorically if the church was ready to provide them a welcoming place, “accepting and valuing their sexual orientation without compromising Catholic doctrine on the family and matrimony.” For a 2,000-year-old institution that believes gay sex is “intrinsically disordered,” even posing the question is significant.
“This is a stunning change in the way the Catholic church speaks of gay people,” said the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit author. “The Synod is clearly listening to the complex, real-life experiences of Catholics around the world, and seeking to address them with mercy, as Jesus did.” The bishops repeated that gay marriage was off the table. But it acknowledged that gay partnerships had merit. “Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions, it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners,” they said.
Look, Cut-N-Paste is back!
What’s really funny is how Cut-N-Paste demands Catholics change, but clams up and vanishes when he’s asked to condemn gay “equality” groups that support molesting underage children in public school restrooms.
But that’s no surprise. Cut-N-Paste is a typical gay leftist who has already bragged about how he and his HIV-spreading friends dumped their lovers who were dying of HIV on the Catholic Church, who took them in when gay bigots like Cut-N-Paste were kicking them out of their houses.
Wonder why Catholics, who supposedly hate gays, are better for gays who are suffering and more willing to take care of them than their so-called “tolerant” liberal brethren like Cut-N-Paste?
In sum, gay marriage opponents have lost the argument with the public and the courts because what was once a matter of defending social consensus has evolved into a plea for enforcement of one set of religious norms in a diverse society. Without evidence of harm to others, there is no constitutionally acceptable reason to preserve the distinction.
Perkins gamely tried to invoke all sorts of stray arguments — from sex education curriculum to baking wedding cakes for gay couples — which are distinct issues and do not go to the essence of the legal issue at hand (e.g. parents can opt out of sex education for their children, matters of accommodation for religious beliefs are resolved on a case-by-case basis).
Believers have every right to set parameters on their own religious ceremonies and conceptions of marriage; but they cannot impose them on others — absent any evidence that they are being harmed by others’ marriage practices. In short, it is the essence of tolerance in our society that people of faith can abide by their own religious definition of marriage while tolerating others’ practices with which they strongly disagree. Whether they agree with that or not, that is the legal reality going forward. They will need to come to terms with it.
Jennifer Rubin
“In sum, gay marriage opponents have lost the argument with the public and the courts”
By “losing the argument with the public” you are of course not referring to all the ballot measures that pass in even gay-friendly states such as California…correct?
And by “judges,” you are of course referring to left-wing activist judges who are ignoring the will of those same voters and inflicting their personal views on the public? Yes?
Give Rusty a minute, AF_Vet, he has to find another person to quote to reply.
Ed at Hotair has the actual text:
“…The Church furthermore affirms that unions between people of the same sex cannot be considered on the same footing as matrimony between man and woman. Nor is it acceptable that pressure be brought to bear on pastors or that international bodies make financial aid dependent on the introduction of regulations inspired by gender ideology.”
“Without denying the moral problems connected to homosexual unions it has to be noted that there are cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners.” (Emphasis mine)
And from John Thavis’ reporting:
“The relatio has already occasioned some pushback. Following its presentation in the synod hall, 41 bishops spoke about the content, and several pressed for clarifications on specific points:
– Some asked whether, in the section on homosexuality, there shouldn’t be mention of the teaching that “some unions are disordered,” a reference to the phrase the church has used to describe homosexual relations. That information came from Cardinal Peter Erdo, the primary author of therelatio, who spoke to reporters at a Vatican press conference.
– Sources said other bishops questioned the analogy the relatio drew between the principle of finding “elements of sanctification and of truth outside” outside the visible structure of the church, expressed in the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium, and the broader idea that positive elements can be found not only in sacramental marriage but also in irregular unions.
– At least one bishop asked what happened to the concept of sin. The word “sin” appears only rarely in the 5,000-word relatio.
At the press conference, Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle of the Philippines emphasized that this text was not the final version and said with a smile, “So the drama continues.””
(Disclaimer, I’m a Heneothesitc Lutheran Heretic)
From the Thavis Blog
A pastoral earthquake at the synod
In pastoral terms, the document published today by the Synod of Bishops represents an earthquake, the “big one” that hit after months of smaller tremors.
The relatio post disceptationem read aloud in the synod hall, while defending fundamental doctrine, calls for the church to build on positive values in unions that the church has always considered “irregular,” including cohabitating couples, second marriages undertaken without annulments and even homosexual unions
Thavis continues
The relatio said that in caring for “wounded families,” what rang out in the synod was the need for “courageous pastoral choices” and new pastoral paths that begin with the situation of the suffering couples or families, recognizing that, often, their situations are more endured than freely chosen.
@ The_Livewire: This… is big. If the bishops ever mentioned homosexuality before this, it was to awkwardly quote Church teaching. The bishops seem to be trying to balance acknowledgement of traditional Church teaching (we can’t say that homosexuality is no longer sinful), but also acknowledge that there may be some babies could be getting thrown out with the bathwater (gay sex is a sin, but we need to consider the good points of the relationships).
If the Catholic Church alters its teachings on homosexuality, it will still teach that homosexual acts still stray from God’s ideal for men and women and thus a sin, but probably clarify that there are mitigating circumstances that reduce the severity of the sin from mortal to venial.
This, I think, is how to do this. Rather than bow to social pressure like some Protestant churches have, the Catholic Church will say, “This is not good in and of itself, but good can come of it.” And at the end, that is a very Catholic attitude. if the fall of Adam and Eve can be called a “happy fault” because it allowed for Jesus’ incredible act of compassion and sacrifice, if God could redeem something as nasty and vicious as Man, than couldn’t the act of two men or two women finding comfort in each other be redeemed as well?
I understand your points, Sean. And I agree it is a shift. The issue is how big a shift. I don’t see it as big as some are making it, but we’ll see what the final document is to be sure.
Also, Livewire and Sean L, what we should remember is that anti-Catholic bigots like rusty Cut-N-Paste are trying to spin this.
What people should keep in mind is that when Cut-N-Paste and his fellow bigots were kicking their infected lovers out, the Catholic Church was caring for them.
What people should keep in mind is that when Cut-N-Paste was screaming that gay conservatives and anyone who disagreed with him should be murdered, the Catholic Church was reaffirming the sanctity of life.
What people should keep in mind is that when Cut-N-Paste and his fellow bigots were vandalizing Catholic churches and disrupting services to defile the Eucharist, Catholics were praying for their souls and salvation.
Cut-N-Paste is moral filth, and for him to be here criticizing the Catholic Church and demanding piety dances while he ignores and runs away from any examples of the bad behaviors he endorses shows just what a pathetic amoral hypocrite he is.