A paradigm of the Obama-voting, unmarried female voter… Kaci Hickox resents that she is subject to quarantine because of her recent contact with persons infected with Ebola … and asserts that the common sense measures taken to protect the public from a deadly infectious disease are a violation of her human rights. And of course, she is threatening lawsuits right and left. And she’s become a darling of the MFM.
She asserts she feels fine. And she may well turn out to be uninfected. But what kind of example is this “health care professional” setting for others who may become infected? That they should just go about their lives normally… because it’s their “human right.”
This attitude more than anything demonstrated Christian Conservatives are bigger threat than Islamic Fundamentalists 8k miles away.
It is frightening beyond belief that anyone that CCs could claim is a public threat could be stripped of their civil liberties and imprisoned without due process?
Not that you lot are capable of such strategic thinking, but what if every conspiracy you lot hold about Obama was right and tomorrow he claimed Conservatives were a public threat and they needed to be placed under “quarantine” for the next 5 days? Why would that be wrong? If you can strip anyone of their civil liberties without due process that effects everyone including YOU!!!!!!!!
I’m sure her Lawyer/Book Agent is acting solely in her best interests. **snert**
James Edward, you are already on record as refusing to condemn Obama appointed officials calling for the death of all conservatives and for Obama supporters telling gays to vote for him or be stripped of rights and kill themselves.
Now, if you were TRULY concerned about “rights”, you would be appalled that Obama and his supporters like yourself are actually calling for the murder of people based on how they vote.
But you’re not.
So it’s a little late for your concern trolling.
Now go back to your racist pedophile toddler pron.
Cool NDT so if Obama calls you lot a public threat and orders your quarantine, I trust you’ll be completely down with that?
If not can you or one of your fellow comments not be crazy and explain why stripping this person of her rights without due process is okay but it wouldn’t be okay to strip you of your rights without due process?
Okay, I’ll take a brief stab at this.
The answer is simple: public health.
When the issue of public health is concerned, due process rights come later and are preempted by the concern for the general well-being of the community at large. Courts have already held that quarantine laws are constitutional when the public safety is at risk. This is an extension of Oliver Wendell Holmes’ famous reasoning about it not being okay to yell “Fire!” in a crowded theatre, even though the First Amendment otherwise guarantees freedom of speech.
Is Ms Hickox symptomatic? Doesn’t matter. Unless she is outside of the parameters of quarantine as set by the authorities in which she resides [in this case, Maine], she is subject to the rules they set.
To soapbox for a moment, this is a critical time in our nation’s history. If we don’t get the rules of ebola, a difficult disease to transmit, correct; what will we do when a much easier disease to contract like influenza becomes pandemic? The world is overdue for just such a pandemic and during the last major pandemic 95 years ago, the microbial theory of disease was just becoming established. Now we have antibacterial this and antibacterial that, as well as a yearly influenza vaccine, yet people still contract the flu, and yes, die from it.
At the same time, we have doctors who are exposed to a potentially deadly disease with no vaccine and no definitive cure who run around like a person who has just come out of a ten year coma. And nurses who may have been exposed act like detained Guantanamo prisoners screaming about their civil liberties. If the community of medical professionals doesn’t take this current outbreak seriously, how can we expect them to take a heightened outbreak of any disease seriously—at least until thousands start perishing because of carelessness?
As even the wonderfully named Josh Earnest admitted, quarantines are primarily a state issue, so President Bam can bloviate all he wants about the issue, but there isn’t much he can actually do.
And, amazingly enough, he hasn’t countermanded the military’s own quarantine orders.
Nurse Kaci Wilcox could have had a nice three-week vacation at home in Maine…caught up on Netflix, and maybe her accumulated Star and People magazines, too, and then gone back to work as a hero. Instead, she’s merely ensured that no doctor or hospital in their right minds would ever hire her in the future, given the contempt she’s shown for everyone else out in the world — you know, the ones who Aren’t Like Her or aren’t like the invincible Bam and his band of lawless acolytes.
RSG, can’t link it right now but when the 1918 Spanish Flu was laying waste, the city of St. Louis closed down pretty much everything, quarantining for weeks into a few months until the worst blew over. They called it ‘social distancing’. Businesses complained but officials stuck to their protocols, even advising police to not bring in anyone on minor charges to keep exposures down.
It worked. Out of the top ten US cities, St. Louis had the fewest deaths. Half that of some of the other cities, who did next to nothing.
Btw, James, the CDC has finally admitted that you can catch it from droplets and that it can survive on surfaces from a couple of hours up to several weeks, if the conditions are right.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to be standing next to someone in the grocery store whose Ebola decides right then to spike them a fever and vomiting…after they have been feeling puny for a day or two (like the Dr. who lied about his self quarantine).
Also, quite a few staff at the various hospitals have been calling off when suspected ebola patients are brought in. A doctor friend in Maine is saying they are getting frequent email ‘blasts’ from the CDC, state CDC, and hospital, with constantly changing and contradictory information. Not exactly instilling confidence in those who are expected to deal with it.
Many of the residents in Maine are not happy with this ‘nurse’. Makes you wonder if those other Doctors Without Borders, who died, had the same blasé attitude as her. Or how she practices regular hygiene protocols while treating patients (if she is really a practicing nurse.)
What confuses Mr. Edward is that the topic of this post is not Ms. Hickox’s legal obligation, but rather her moral and personal responsibility. As a leftist, he perhaps lacks knowledge of moral and personal responsibility.
Ms. Hickox is saying that her personal convenience is more important than protecting the health of others, which is both immoral and unprofessional. Mr. Edward supports her, I suppose, because self-centered sociopaths have to stick together.
Why are people spouting off that she’s not had ‘due process’? She has. She did.
She was interviewed and her responses (somebody make a flow chart) were such that, follow the flow chart… she requires quarantine.
After having testified she was in contact with patients with ebola, does she now wish to appeal and prove she wasn’t? Well, I’m sorry there isn’t an appeals process… YOU’VE BEEN EXPOSED TO EBOLA.
It’s not even a question if you HAVE it; YOU’VE BEEN EXPOSED.
I’m in the medical field and EVERY LAST ONE of my colleagues are in disbelief at her responses and just as many have suggested some, shall we say, ‘interesting’ responses to this selfish cow.
Noted Paedophile James Edwards tries to blame Conservative Christians for the CDC’s recommended protocols?
Noted Paedophile James Edwards is now arguing that Obama is a ‘conservative Christian?”
He’s been buggering kids too long. His attempts at logic are childlike.
Doesn’t this special snowflake deserve a brand name? Maybe a t-shirt?
James doesn’t understand the difference between viruses and ideas.
This disgrace to nursing should acquaint herself with hubris and nemesis.
I forget, how did Mr. Edward get the pedo rap?
By being one.
That’s how.
Hey, James Edward, you must be AOK with the feelthy white guys bringing genocidal disease to the poor, angelic, Utopian native Americans since the feelthy white guys were just exploring and humping their way around to see what was going on in the hood.
There are no more scientific facts undergirding the ebola anti-hysteria hysteria than there is about man-made global warming. The lefties are misrepresenting the general concern for public health safety and blaming the general common sense for believing the sky is falling and a pandemic is in the making.
This high-strung ego parading as a nurse is throwing a hissy-fit for her 15 minutes of fame. The odds are very much in her favor that she will not get ebola. But she chose to go to ebola-land and expose herself. She does not have a “civil right” by any stretch of the imagination to expose herself to the general population until she has demonstrated, through quarantine, that she is not a carrier and distributor of the disease.
Jame Edward may recall how AIDS took root and spread. James Edward may, in fact, believe that HIVpositive is a matter of privacy to the carrier and the object of lust is not his concern. Who knows? But if James Edward is of that mind, there is no promoting of the general welfare in the picture; it is all about self satisfaction.
UPDATE: Ms. Snowflake and her BF repotedly-went for a bike-ride around town this morning and meet face-to-face with Members of the Press, even shaking-hands with several.
Dr. Spenser initially LIED to public health authorities about his leaving his apartment until detectives confronted him with PROOF that he had been on the subway and dined-out and had gone bowling — he didn’t volunteer that information.
Dr. Snyderman of TV-fame went to a restaurant in direct-violation of her agreement with NJ public health authorities.
The CDC itself explicitly-approved Nurse Vinson’s flight to Cleveland, and a second-time approved her flying back to Texas for internment after developing a fever — despite she was only a few miles from the famed Cleveland Clinic.
Trust ME?
“Me, me, me, me, …”
Narcissism and Mendacity. Two more words incised on the tombstone of Western Civilization.
That’s an interesting view into your mindset, and presumably why your knee-jerk reaction is so strong.
You see, James Edward, you would misuse quarantine for political purposes. Your Barack Obama Party, for example, interned all citizens of Japanese ancestry in the United States during World War II, primarily to eliminate them as competition for the Obama Party donors who were propping up FDR and who disliked competition from industrious Japanese and Asian workers.
This is why you cannot possibly see quarantine as anything other than an unjustified violation of due process — mainly because you and your Obama Party have endorsed it on the flimsiest of pretexts, and you do not want anyone turning that power against you. Your stance is not one of protecting due process; it is the same reason that you shriek about the necessity of the filibuster when you’re out of power and abolish it when you’re in. Pure self-interest.
What also makes this funny, James Edward, is that you are on record here as saying the government has absolute right to compel you to do whatever it orders in the name of “public accomodation” — such as force you to bake cakes, arrange flowers, or officiate for a gay wedding. By your own logic, this government compulsion is a violation of “due process”, but you demand it as a matter of public health and safety.
So essentially you’re being a little hypocrite, just like you always are. And now that that’s exposed and your Alinsky game is unraveled, you will run away and refuse to answer.
No one here mentioned her working for the CDC and being a plant. She most likely stayed in a 5 star hotel while in Africa. Every 3rd world cesspool has 5star hotels for “charity” workers to blow aid money in. The book “Shaking Hands With the Devil” was written by a former aid worker/whistleblower.
So this CDC worker that there is no evidence she worked as a caregiver while in Africa cries about the conditions of quarantine. If she actually did patient care in Africa the quarantine area would seem like a 5 star hotel(minus the escorts). The first men to go to the moon where quarantined for 3 weeks in a retrofitted small travel trailer, forget equality being treated better than those who have reached mankind’s highest achievement and she still pees her pants.
As a CDC worker, O-Hole supporter with a white house attending lawyer she is most likely a plant, to break state quarantines. She had a fever when she landed but that is easy enough to induce. I don’t blame the nurses in NYC for abandoning the Ebola lying doctor as until O-hole removed quarantine regulations in 2010 none of the Obola patients would have brought it back and all Obola pts so far have demonstrated to be non compliant and lying patients. Both the doctor who lied about his US travels and this nurse should face license review boards.
@VtheK,
Our resident Paedophile looks to the extremes and declares they are the mainstream. Looking to, say, some but saying gays should die and then saying that every Christian believes as that one does.
This, by his standards, means that he is a paedophile, since Harry Hay and Gerry Studds are both celebrated by the left. James has stated it is fine to use them as an example of his behavior.
That he accepts this title speaks volumes.
In typical conservative fashion you don’t even address what I wrote and simply accuse me of being a pedophile.
This is more important than literally anything else. This isn’t even a left or right issue as both a tyrannical Republican governor and a tyrannical Democratic governor has done this. And tyrannical is not hyperbole either.
“Public health” or “Public Safety” is such a nebulous term that it could be used to apply to anyone in a time of crisis. Seriously, the democrats are going to lose the Senate, everyone knows that. In all seriousness what if Obama declared conservatives a public heath threat and force conservatives into their homes until after the election? Would it be acceptable for Obama to say “due process rights to come later and are preempted by the concern for the general week-being of the community at large.” Would it be acceptable for Obama to claim this was a “critical time in our nation’s history” as a defense for “quarantine” of Conservatives.
People are frightened but that exactly why we have a constitution. Power will be abused. I don’t care what ad hominem attacks you throw at me, this is something everyone should oppose rather than 80% of Americans supporting.
Nope James, you admit yourself of being a paedophile, by your own standards, as I explained above.
Now maybe you can explain how Obama is a ‘conservative Christian?’
go back to debating with the children you molest, you’re their intellectual inferior, true, but they are closer to your level.
Mr. Edward is saying two things, both of which are insane.
1. People with infectious diseases, like Ebole, have every right to spread those diseases, and only a tyrant would try and stop them.
2. There is totally equivalence between a person infected with a virulent pathogenic virus and a person who holds opinions that differ from his.
So suddenly the rights of the whole outweigh the rights of the one.
I don’t care what you think about me, I am completely frightened that 80% of the American people support this.
What is there to stop a republican president/governor from doing this to democrats or a democrat president/governor from doing this to republicans?
If public safety is all that matters
Why couldn’t Obama confiscate all guns for public safety?
Why couldn’t a hypothetical President Cruz lock up blacks for public safety.
Guns kill 11k people a year and black on black violence is a crisis in America. Both are public safety issues.
This isn’t a left or right issue. US citizens have rights to liberty. Those rights can only be taken away with due process. Fear is not an excuse. You want to make this a left right divide. Fine I will gladly throw FDR under the bus to appease you. How can it be perfectly acceptable to imprison this women and it not be acceptable to imprison Japanese-Americans after Pearl Harbor. It was easy to say that they were a threat to national security.
You can call me all the names you want. You’re inability to explain why this situation is different from my hypothetical is the reason why we as a nation can not allow this. Anyone can be claimed to be a public threat. When we start locking people up without due process or in “promise” of due process afterwards, there is no constraint on what leaders in the future may do to future “public threat.”
Even if your answer is the 2nd Amendment that only protects people in the majority. The 2nd Amendment didn’t protect Japanese-Americans from the tyranny of FDR and the 2nd Amendment isn’t protecting this nurse from the tyranny of Christie, Cuomo or LePage.
I have the same question. Maybe it’s an in-joke (or metaphor, or application of his own type of reasoning about people). Where that context isn’t obvious, it’s an inappropriate thing to keep saying.
TL, thanks for explaining.
No, not “suddenly”. First, natural rights always belong to individuals; the group or “the whole” (your term) has no natural rights. The question is, how to adjust individuals’ rights where they bump up against each other? As I have long said, liberty rests upon the impartial protection of all individuals’ rights to life, liberty and property. Which means: protection of others’ rights to their life, liberty and property, *as well as* your rights to yours. To negligently inflict a deadly disease on others – that is, on at least one other specific individual – is irresponsible, if not a tort or perhaps even a crime.
This is a longstanding principle – indeed, a foundational principle – of libertarian thinking. But James Edward, you probably never took the trouble to understand it. So, when it comes up (or you see it being applied), you mistakenly – and ludicrously – pull the “Oh now suddenly you’re all…..xyz” line. As if there has been some change of position – when there has not. True friends of liberty will object to the willful/negligent infliction of deadly diseases, on much the same grounds by which they object to acts of murder, rape, theft, or other physical injury.
He can confiscate ***criminals’ *** guns for public safety, under these neat-o things called “criminal law” and “due process”.
You seem, James Edward, to have a weird belief that guns-in-themselves are somehow a threat to public safety. They are not. Confiscating all guns (as opposed to merely confiscating individual criminals’ guns) would increase the public safety not a bit. Not the tiniest iota. Indeed, it would actually harm public safety (because it would deny the right and ability of law-abiding citizens to protect themselves).
OMG YOU PEOPLE ARE THICK!!
Let’s try this another way.
You apparently believe that the government should be able to hold somebody against their will without due process.
You also seem to think accusing someone of being a child molester is also perfectly acceptable.
Why should I trust you lot to not throw me in prison without due process? Maybe you do and maybe that’s why your okay with striping this women of her civil liberties simply for being a women and a democrat.
Note however you don’t require my trust. I have argued and firmly believe that detaining someone without due process is WRONG PERIOD.
“In typical left-liberal fashion you don’t even address what I wrote and simply accuse me of being thick.” — What a conservative James Edward might say to his own comment just above.
Not remotely close to what I think or wrote. Try again.
Not remotely close to what I think or wrote. Try again. (Maybe read my comment this time, before responding?)
You shouldn’t! That is exactly why society needs such concepts like “rights”, “due process”, “rule of law”, “the second amendment”, “guns”, and “being suspicious of government”.
If, James Edward, you are worried about being thrown in prison without due process…then logically, you should join up with the libertarian-conservative viewpoint and become one of those “gun nuts” of your imagination, that you hate so much. Game, set, match.
If you are concerned with due process and rights why are you okay with this women being stripped of hers?
This blog has called me a child molester, but that doesn’t matter in a world in which people are not throw in prison without due process.
You and everyone on this site believes it’s okay to hold this women against her will because you deem her a public threat. Please explain why if you hold that position it is your side that I should join if I’m against people being detained with due process.
Not remotely close to what I think or wrote. Try again.
So than you oppose her detainment. You oppose her being called selfish and irresponsible?
Again James, you are the one admitting you’re a child molester, by your own standards.
I know I know, holding you to your own standards is something new for you.
Please STFU about ‘due process’. She’s HAD her first swing at it.
At this point, they can suggest and order her to quarantine, based on findings, including INFORMATION SHE GAVE.
They CANNOT at this time, physically restrain her or enforce the quarantine; another step, before a judge, or an Executive Order from the governor, is required for that to occur.
People are upset that a human, and one who purports to be a caregiver, would not forego their own personal comfort for a short period of time TO BE CERTAIN NO HARM MIGHT COME TO OTHERS.
THAT is the problem: not her ‘rights’, not her 15 minutes, hell, not HER.
James – I did argue your point: there’s a difference between opinion and a virus.
Quarantine is nothing new – it was common in years past to control scarlet fever outbreaks, polio outbreaks, etc. By your reasoning, it’s OK to sacrifice people to, say, polio in order to allow a carrier to wonder free. These days, there are instances where non-compliant patients with TB are quarantined. Would you be willing to contract drug-resistant TB on principal?
I have no idea what exposure, if any, this twat had. The reason so many people are concerned (maybe over-concerned) is because our government 1) doesn’t tell the truth, 2) changes it’s story and tells us contradicting “facts” (sometimes in the same paragraph), 3) the Dallas patient lied about his exposure and, 4) the NYC doctor lied about his movement around town.
We’ve spent months hearing from CDC, WHO, the UN – you name it – that the number of infections in Africa will be in the tens and then hundreds of thousands. More than a few case can overwhelm hospitals in the US. The number of containment rooms in the US such as at Emory in Atlanta and in Omaha is less than 20 or so.
So far, we’ve been lucky. But a few cases in a densely populated area like NYC or LA and we’ve got a problem.
No one has asked this “nurse” to do anything unreasonable: stay at home for 21 days and minimize contacts.
Why should I answer your questions, James Edward – since you actually don’t read, or care about, what I think and write?
(For others – James Edward, you can ignore this – especially since you will ignore it anyway: I am not familiar with the law about persons who carry deadly diseases, but, just to approach it from general moral principles…The correct analogy is to any sort of person who is about to kill or injure you. The person may intend the injury (malice), or may just be stupid (negligent), or a mixture (willfully negligent). You delegate part (part!) of your natural right of self-defense to the State. The State then has the delegated right (delegated from you and others) to stop the person. The person also has rights, which are honored in due process. For the State to stop the person through quick/immediate action, is not a violation of the person’s rights and not a violation of due process. Rather, it is part of the overall fabric of due process and protection of rights, which serves all citizens. If the State has, in fact, stopped the person unnecessarily or unfairly, due process will (or should) reveal and redress that. So, for example: the person must be stopped only with good reason, must be held only on stated causes/charges, must be released if the charges cease to apply or if there was a mistake, must be allowed counsel and at least some outside communication, must be given a trial by jury if lasting charges are to be pursued, etc. If Kaci Hickox is given those considerations – and I believe that she has been – then holding/quarantining her (for a time) is consistent with due process and consistent with the protection of individual rights, including hers. As such, I uphold her rights under due process. I just don’t see any contradiction between that, and quarantining her – temporarily and for a stated, quite reasonable cause.)
“In typical conservative fashion you don’t even address what I wrote ”
Says the idiot who began his diatribe on this thread by starting completely OT with his stupid Christians are more dangerous than Islamic fundamentalists” schtick. James, didn’t you get slapped down hard enough the last time you tried this? I seem to recall everyone here putting you in your ideological/logical place rather brutally.
Your head must be really thick.
The funny part about all of this is how desperate James Edward is to a) prevent stupid and selfish behavior from being called such and b) prevent the law from stopping his or others’ stupid and selfish behavior.
I have my suspicions as to why.
So, Mr. Edward apparently believes the Government can and should force people to participate in gay weddings against their conscience; but should do absolutely nothing if a person infected with a deadly, virulent, and highly contagious disease wants to spread it to others.
That’s nucking futs, unless your goal is to create an epidemic and kill a lot of people; in which case it is perfectly logical.
Sorry Kim family,
It seems your attempt to imprison someone because you deem them a threat was just checked. Sorry she, her children, and her grandchildren won’t be forced under “quarantine” but this is America and not North Korea.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/01/us/ebola-maine-nurse-kaci-hickox.html
Yes I’m gloating and maybe even being a troll.
However, this is still America. Just because you rubes don’t believe in Science or because you don’t like women, or democrats or anyone who isn’t a cisgendered, heterosexual, white Christian male doesn’t mean you get to strip someone of their rights and detain them. That’s not what America does and if you lot truly supported a small government instead of a Christian Iran style government you would feel the same.
For now however, it seem freedom and justice won!
“or anyone who isn’t a cisgendered”
Sorry, but we all speak English here…not made-up, feel-good-about-being-abnormal gutter-speak.
So yes V, he is insane.
I also find it funny our resident paedophile thinks the CDC, the Pentagon, and Obama are ‘anti-science’.
Kaci Hickox remains a selfish, irresponsible scrunt.
I am an Australian citizen. Just like in the USA we have medical staff who have been to Sierra Leone to help with Ebola patients. They are to be commended for their actions in helping others.
The difference is: Upon their return the medical staff went into self quarantine. One nurse developed a fever and she went to the Cairns hospital where she was isolated until she was cleared of having Ebola. However, the protocols were bad at that hospital, and the way in which the situation was treated was not to a good standard.
Kaci Hickox is wrong because she should have at least been willing to self-quarantine for the 21 days.
I continue to say that I think the Kaci Hickox story somehow stinks to high heaven. Did she really go to West Africa or is it all a sham?
Ditto for the doctor in New York. He should have at least kept himself in self-quarantine as requested. It is a precaution and he should at least understand the risks involved with Ebola.
It seems that only the conservative “Christians” are willing to not risk the lives of others when they have ministered to the sick and dying in West Africa.
Please do not blame Doctors without borders. The organization has lost many medical staff to Ebola… and this is a tragedy. They cannot help that there are some individuals who are stupid enough to be unwilling to follow what is a reasonable protocol when they return to their home country because of their left wing Marxist ideology.
It has little or nothing to do with “small government”; it has to do with the concept of the greater good and protecting public health. As Governor LePage said, “We do not know what we do not know about ebola.” When the CDC, a once-heralded government agency, has its current director changing statements and protocols about ebola on an every-other-day basis from the very start, is it any wonder that governors are starting to “go rogue” and implement their own protocols?
Ms Hickox can whine on Sunday morning tee vee about “ignoring science”, but last time I checked, she is a nurse, not an epidemiologist; as such, perhaps she should be careful about presuming to state too much about any disease.
Huh,
So nurses are apparently racist and anti-science?