Iran’s news agency, apparently with the support of some Iraqis, has been pushing a story that ISIS is a UK / US creation. They started pushing it in 2014, but the following is from Feb 23 of this year:
Iraqi Army Downs 2 UK Planes Carrying Weapons for ISIL
TEHRAN (FNA)- Iraq’s army has shot down two British planes as they were carrying weapons for the ISIL terrorists in Al-Anbar province, a senior [Iraqi] lawmaker disclosed on Monday.
“The Iraqi Parliament’s National Security and Defense Committee has access to the photos of both planes that are British and have crashed while they were carrying weapons for the ISIL,” Head of the committee Hakem al-Zameli said, according to a Monday report of the Arabic-language information center of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq.
Obviously, I don’t want to quote the entire linked article; you can read it. It goes on for awhile, giving names of Iraqi lawmakers and their specific charges about the U.S.-led effort against ISIS being a mask for Western aid to ISIS, “as it does not want the ISIL crisis to come to an end.”
I do NOT automatically believe this story, because Iran’s news agency is hardly a reliable source. And because many Iraqi lawmakers are probably on Iran’s payroll; as fellow Shias, they would oppose ISIS – while preferring Iran to lead the effort.
Sad to say, I also can’t automatically disbelieve this story, for the following reasons:
- *If* the Sunni-Shia divide really matters (and I’m not 100% persuaded that it does), we must grant at least a little sincerity to Iran’s opposition to ISIS.
- We know that in Syria, the Obama administration supports Islamist, al Qaeda-type “rebels” who are much the same as ISIS. Even after we discard any notion that the US / UK created ISIS on purpose, we must still consider whether ISIS could be an *inadvertent* US / UK creation – as the well-supplied, Sunni Islamist “rebels” from one theater (Syria) simply drive a few hundred miles across the desert to their buddies in the other theater (northern Iraq).
- And it would be just like the Obama administration to stumble into such a foolish, contradictory policy. We do know that ISIS has a lot of U.S. weapons; it’s just that they are normally viewed as captured weapons.
If you can shed any light on this, please post in the comments. I’d be looking either for some proof of the story that doesn’t merely come from an anti-U.S. mouthpiece (like Iran or Alex Jones) – or/and, for some disproof of the story that doesn’t merely come from a pro-Obama mouthpiece.
ISIS is made up of Salafa Muslims. These are a very fundamentalist sect of Islam who believe that pretty much everything must be done as it was during the time of Mohammed. To this extent, they view the Caliphate as only legitimate form of government; all other governmental forms, even if they are used to institute Islamic society and Sharia, are acts of apostasy, which is punishable by death in Islam. That’s why every Muslim country and terror group in the Middle East is terrified of these guys- they all have targets on their foreheads.
Thanks, Sean. With that in mind:
– What do you think of the possibility of intercourse (so to speak) between ISIS and the Syrian rebels?
– What do you think of ISIS’ extensive American weaponry? Given that the Iraqi Army officers would “all have targets on their foreheads” (Sunni and Shia alike) and were well U.S.-trained, is it very likely that they would (whether incompetently or traitorously) let so much weaponry get captured?
I don’t think you’re going to find proof of the Iranian story. The region is a patchwork of sects within sects & militias with warlords pulling the little strings because the city state kings & despots have their tradition of hunting these people on a regular basis, so they meld back into the landscape & villages at the end of the day.
It’s just the way the region has always been. Without structure, with strongmen & factions. Religion has very little to do with it except at the top of the chain with the mullahs in Iran & their Supreme Leader, the kings who act as custodians of religions at the behest of religious councils – & presidents, e.g., in Egypt, who have a fascicle veneer of piety.
With regard to ISIS, some is known, much is not. Because of the proliferation of so many militias which were always there but grew like weeds when watered, when Syria failed to crush them & Iraq stumbled without backup of the US.
ISIS is backed up military by the former general Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, formerly of Saddam’s coterie of villains. It’s his expertise & generalship that we’re fighting against.
http://tinyurl.com/lqqxmf4
As far as trying to get a handle on the whole thing, that’s impossible because even the expert Persians & Arabs in the region are playing Wackamole & the militias big & small align themselves differently every week, at times.
There is no Arab civilization & the Persians aren’t to be trusted for truthful reporting. Basically, it doesn’t matter what they say.
Because of Iraq’s stupidity & Obama’s blundering, a LOT of US weapons are in their hands, that haven’t degraded over the years. When they’re left, captured or otherwise, when an Arab or Persian sees a US label, they’re going to get hysterical about it, without regards to source & provenance.
There would be no aid for ISIS by the West. That’s just not going to happen & Iran has a history of vomiting out blatant, stupid fantasies. Literally.
If one wants to know more on the topic in general, I suggest contacting or finding source material out of Israel intelligence or publications from Mossad. Top professors at their universities would also published material. Their view is practical & from their perspective, weeding out the irrelevant.
Israel, Jordan & Egypt are client states of the the US & are acting out that traditional role, even as we speak. Buffers between the US & its interests & the enemy.
It’s quite surprising how much material, in English, can be found, out of these three states, regarding the makeup of the seeming chaos in the region. They’re not snobby US officials who won’t return a call or email or inquiry.
Jihadi John’s family have been leeching off white people for 20 years, costing about $60,000 a year. That’s more than 3rd worlders could earn.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2978334/Jihadi-John-family-s-20-years-benefits-s-cost-taxpayers-400k-house-fanatic-relatives-upmarket-areas.html
The only good moslem is a dead one, you wont find any that would denounce beheading gays as unislamic.
One also won’t find a Christian denouncing the murder of gays nor the advocacy of the murdering of gays as being unchristian either. Should we have a similar policy towards them too Steve?
Rubbish, already disproven many a time. Yes, Christians stand up for gays and denounce the murder of gays.
I want to see the travel photos of James Edwards and his/her same sex partner sharing a kiss in Iran. As soon as I do, I will post my wedding photos with 4 generations of Christians attending.
BS, James Edward. I’m a Christian and a pastor and I utterly and irrevocably denounce the murder of gays. People who murder gays are acting against the Ten Commandments as are people who murder anyone. The fact of the matter is, despite some opposition to gay marriage and not wanting to be forced to make wedding cakes or do floral arrangements for gay weddings there is absolutely no comparison between the ways gays are treated by religious authorites here and the way they are treated in Islamic countries. Did you read the latest account of the 20 year man who was suspected of being gay being thrown off a building? The local Presbyterian Church doing that? The local Episcopal Church doing that. Nope; They both ordain gays and perform marriages for gays. Any local mosques doing that?
Ah look, our resident Paedophile is back.
Just ignore James Edwards folks, he’s on record saying America shouldn’t even exist.
ILC asks for “facts” which I do not believe exist.
•Does the Sunni-Shia divide really matter? I believe that at the armageddon level, it is all that matters to the fundamentalists.
•Is ISIS an inadvertent US/UK creation? Yes, due to the “fact” of political physics that power abhors a vacuum.
Iran carries the unique quirk of being Persian rather than Arab. That must not be overlooked in this pot of seething contradictions. The mixture of ethnic purity and religious purity is nuclear in nature.
ISIS is playing by the rules laid out in the Koran. They will make alliances with the full intent of breaking them in order to gain the advantage and move the purity of their caliphate forward.
Our primary war is with radical Islam which uses terror as its technique. However, when you look at the problem with Muslim populations in Europe, the cultural differences boil down to Muslim vs. Kafir with kafir meaning unbeliever, disbeliever or infidel. The kafir denies Islam, the truth of Islam, and is the one who substitutes man-made laws for the laws of Allah: Shari’a.
ISIS will work with Muslims who are convenient to their immediate needs, but in the end, everyone under the control of the Caliphate will adhere to the rules of as outlined in strict shari’a interpretation.
Embedded in this set of conflicting Muslim goals is a unifying fact:
This is the primal tribal fear of the loss of their one true belief.
There is no “moderate” Islam. Bashar al-Assad, al-Sisi, Erdoğan, the House of Saud, and others are all trying to live in a 2015 world of give and take and exchange while keeping a thumb on radical Islam. Their duty is to themselves.
The Arab Spring gave a voice to dissidents all over the Mid-East. All of those dictators had a gestapo form of structure in place to deal with the dissidents in the typical way that dictators protect themselves. Much could be explained here, but basically, the power structure in the Mid-East remains as it was before the Arab Spring. Who do you arm when overthrowing a dictator that will not end up being your worst nightmare in the end? Look at Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia and possibly Iraq for possible clues.
Finally, I do not think one can pull together enough common threads for a workable conspiracy theory concerning some clandestine cooperation with ISIS. Nor do I think there will ever be an “Appalachin Conference” where all the dons of the would-be Caliphate come together and create a perfect target for beheading the snake of radical Islam.
These fundamentalists are bringing out the worst of the worst from all over the planet. They have horny teen-aged girls flocking in to breed. They attract societal rejects hot to maim and kill. We see the cold-bloodedness of terrorists and their aloofness from the pain they cause their victims as a breed far removed from normal people. But these folks have found an absolute truth and ideology which brings stability and relief to their lives. They are caught up in the Islamic “Rapture.”
Remember when Obama referred to people clinging to their guns and Bibles? Obama has a basic community organizer’s sense of how to lead rats and radicals. But he has no strategy for how to kill all the snakes he is fully capable of releasing. But, then the Cloward-Piven and radical Islam are both “chaos” oriented and dystopian — from which arises the Utopia of near perfection people and ideals.
In more than one important sense, Progressives and ISIS are one and the same. Efficiency, bureaucracy, correctness police and no exceptions.
I agree that, if Obama had paid proper attention and left a residual force in Iraq, ISIS would not be happening. The rise of an Islamic State (and relatively U.S.-armed, at that) is the great weirdness, here. Given that the U.S. didn’t plan it, then Obama would be responsible by his incompetence.
That’s the thing. When a party/viewpoint can make believers of the the teenage girls…it’s winning.
Here is my take on the whole ISIS/moderate Islamic debate : ” and other Islamists believe they can achieve this through other means.” Immigration being the primary force here. Horrible acts committed by the horrible people of ISIS make moderate Islamists seem less scary. The Muslim man down the street is not beheading anyone, so leave him alone. Sets the bar pretty low doesn’t it?
The Obama administration is not capable of analysis beyond the initial impact of his decisions. His administration is filled with nasty unintended consequences. Which brings me back to my main philosophy regarding Obama, he is a teenager in a man’s (barely) body.
I’m not a big fan of conspiracy theories, and I don’t claim that the US or its allies deliberately created ISIS. But I think that Obama and his sycophants in the MSM are exploiting ISIS, using it in a “good cop/bad cop” strategy to make Iran look moderate by comparison.
When “Jihadi John” is tracked down and killed by Navy SEALs or Army Rangers (while Obama plays golf), Obama will take the credit for it, and MSDNC will hail it as a major victory in the war on terror. Meanwhile, Iran will continue to build nuclear warheads and ICBM’s.
There used to be some truly peaceful Muslim sects.
The one that had a dozen or so huge teapots comes to mind, but there were others as well.
Bloodthirsty aspects in Islam destroyed all those sects and murdered almost all their adherents years ago.
Now we see bloodthirsty Muslims killing other bloodthirsty Muslims as Jordan, Egypt, Yemen, the Saudis, the Pakistanis, the Lybians, the Afghanis, the Iraqis, the Iranians and the Turks all kill one another, while their alliances with one another swivel on dimes.
There’s an old saying that, unless you are the lead dog the view never changes.
I believe this principle is at work in modern-day Islamic warring.
Which caliph will rule?
The Turks had the last one and want the next one.
ISIS wants the next one.
Al Qaeda wants the next one.
Iranian Ayatollahs want the next one.
Boko Haram wants the next one.
Fighting and murdering infidels is just prelude for the battle of these sects for supremacy over Islam.
Long ago (included in The Al Qaeda Handbook) was a pair of letters between Osama bin Laden and Alman al Zawahiri.
Osama was for letting alone fellow Muslims IF they were keeping busy mudering infidels.
Get them later, he advised.
Zawahiri was for wiping out competing brands of Muslims who might later be less tired from fighting these infidels.
He ruled al Qaeda in only one country, so he was over-ruled by Osama bin Laden who headed all of the al Qaeda organization.
To add something about the USA and ISIS….
Obama’s Administration seems pretty ignorant of Islam, preferring to tout an old romanticized ideal of that religion.
As a result they naively have supplied arms to Muslim groups that folded and gave themselves (and their American weapons) to ISIS.
We have just seen the very last of these American-backed Islamic groups surrender to ISIS in Syria.
So, Obama hasn’t directly armed ISIS, as the Iranian press alleged, but our weapons are in ISIS’ hands.
Obama’s irrational belief that he can make a peace-deal with Iran under the light of articles out of Iran such as this is proof that Iran is willing to laugh at the weak horse of the USA under Obama as long as Obama continues his idiotic outstretched hand of friendship toward Iran.
The instant that ends, Iran is going to be more ready to strike us than we them.
In 1683, the Ottoman Grand Vizier, Kara Mustapha Pasha was given the keys of the city Perchtoldsdorf which lay 10 miles from the imperial city of Vienna. The Grand Vizier promised that the lives and property of the people of Pechtoldsdorf would be respected. Upon receiving the surrender keys, the town was sacked, burned and the people were slaughtered or sold into slavery.
In 1689, Kara Mustafa was routed by Polish cavalry and the forces of Charles of Lorraine from outside plains outside Vienna. He had hoped to starve Vienna into submission and give the city to his troops for three days of pillaging, rape, murder and desecration.
Kara Mustafa was forced to retreat, but not before he had almost 30,000 Christian captives executed.
Between 1530 and 1780, between 1 million and 1.25 million European Christians were captured and enslaved by Muslims. Islamic slavers seized an estimated 18 million Africans.
However, less than 100 years after Pechtoldsdorf, Europe was “smitten” with Ottoman Constantinople and the pleasure-loving court of Sultan Ahmet III. None other than Mozart, the composer who lived in Vienna wrote Die Entführing aus dem Serail 1n 1782 which was his most popular opera of the time.
The gap between 2001 and today is much shorter than the century between Kara Mustapha and Sultan ahmet III, but even we have shown a considerable lack of interest in admitting the true face of radical Islam.
The enduring legacy of fundamental Islam can not be negotiated out of existence. I do not propose extermination, but I do support overwhelming force to keep the fundamentalists contained and seething in their own pits of bile. And I reject treating them to any rules others than those they would use on us if they had the upper hand. That does not include anything approaching the civility level of Gitmo. In fact, I would turn all fundamental Islamic captives over to Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure in France. For some strange reason, Gitmo prisoners are in mortal fear of having that agency take over their lives.
Good comments everyone, thanks.
As to the “weird story” that inspired this post, we haven’t touched on a central aspect: the claim, by Iraqi lawmakers, that their own Iraqi Army has been shooting down British planes.
It’s an astounding claim. Would the Iraqis be making it up? (Then, why?) Would they be covering up a tragedy? (Mistaken/incompetent Iraqi attacks on their own allies?) Or…were 2 British-marked planes actually running supplies to ISIS, as claimed? Fascinating.
As to the “weird story” that inspired this post, we haven’t touched on a central aspect: the claim, by Iraqi lawmakers, that their own Iraqi Army has been shooting down British planes.
Actually, we have No Proof that Iraqi’s are making this claim.
We only have reports (completely unsubstantiated) in Iran’s press (gov’t controlled) alleging this.
Look at the translated link at http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqi-army-downs-two-british-planes-carrying-weapons-for-isil-terrorists/5433089
there is a claim that there are photos, but there are no photos in the article.
also a major fallacy of logic is used in the article, to quote it:
“Jome Divan, who is member of the al-Sadr bloc in the Iraqi parliament, said the coalition’s support for the ISIL is now evident to everyone….”
Whenever anyone claims something is ”evident to everyone,” it is a fallacy of hasty generalization.
It is always false.
The final nail in the coffin was their only ”proof” that US/UK were supplying ISIS was the time when our forces tried to get airdrops of weapons and supplies to the Kurds and a few of those bundles were grabbed by ISIS.
Later some of those bundles ISIS collected were bombed and both the supplies and a few ISIS fighters were destroyed.
So, I wouldn’t call that definitive proof that we WANT to supply ISIS.