From the comments at AoSHQ, for purposes of provoking discussion. On the topic of, maybe sexuality is not necessarily a matter of “Born this way.”
My hubby’s former boss is super duper prog man, to the max. His kid went to school. Wifey insisted he go to boarding school. So he has a gay experience and announces he is gay. Family appears delighted by said announcement. A year later the kid is talking about bringing a girl home. The prog Dad says, “I thought you were gay?”
Prog son says, “Dad I was only 15, what did I know?”
And…
My super-progressive cousin did this with her painfully shy son – she kept telling him “It’s OK if you’re gay, I’ll love you no matter what, do you want to take a boy to prom? etc.”
Finally his older sister screamed at her, “He’s not gay, mom, he’s just SHY!”
Stories like these make me think that real-life is not as simple as the gay left social narrative makes it out to be. Maybe it’s not just a matter of genetics, and sexual orientation being fixed at birth. Maybe people do respond to social cuing, and emulate what’s trendy.
I kind of wonder if, twenty years hence, the current mania for celebrating “transgenders” will be seen as a silly fad like coonskin caps and goldfish swallowing.
Hey, watch that!
Davy Crockett was cool.
If I’d been Davy Crockett’s neighbor, I’d have worn a *skunkskin* cap, just to watch everyone’s heads spin around. 😉
Yep, I think V is right, this is 9/10ths trendy fad and 1/10 actual gender-anything.
I like how a little boy could play with his sister’s Barbie just because it’s close at hand, and automatically the parents assume that he should be dressed in girl clothes and gifted more dolls of his own.
If I was ever playing with a Barbie doll, it was because the evil monster kidnapped her and wanted to do evil science experiments on her. It was up to Superman (or whichever action figure was closest to me) to save the day.
Paul,
In the 80’s they made these 4″ figures for girls called “Glamour Gals” My sister would get home from school (I got home an hour earlier) and find her glamour gals being rescued by G.I. Joes and in the middle of a running battle between Joe and Cobra on the Glamour Gals ‘ cruise ship playset. 🙂
Let’s hope it ends as just a silly fad. Research at John Hopkins seems to indicate that those who go through sex-change “therapy” (read: body mutilation) by and large do not find the result helpful, they are just as confused and depressed as before and the suicide rate is atrocious.
And speaking of suicide rates, if the depression that seems to be unusually high among gay men is only because of the persecution of those around them, then why is the suicide rate of gay teens in San Francisco, the most gay accepting city in the U.S., also so atrociously high compared to other cities?
why is the suicide rate of gay teens in San Francisco, the most gay accepting city in the U.S., also so atrociously high compared
There is no “if only I was in a more liberal city things would be nice” They can have sex in the streets, but can see all the homeless SF gays as a possible future.
I have a lesbian friend who isn’t sold on the “born that way” argument because up until she met her partner she likes boys, was attracted to boys, and hadn’t thought about girls (she and her partner were friends that became lovers).
I think like just about anything there is likely a genetic and environmental component and how much of each varies depends on the individual.
I’ve long believed the “born that way” as the basis for rights is a bad argument.
#1 being born that way doesn’t necessarily mean we should accept it as okay in society (there’s a high correlation between genes and addictive behaviors but we don’t encourage addiction).
#2 if it’s 100% choice and doesn’t cause harm it shouldn’t mean you don’t get rights.
Also, some may object but I work in a school and see teens all the time-there is a teenage drive to be different and outside defined norms. I think a lot of teens flirt with homosexuality because it’s viewed as edgy (and weirdly enough actual gay teens often seem to be accepted while other teens who aren’t gay or at least aren’t outnofnthe closet still get teased-I think bullies are going to target kids who are easy to target and latch on to whatever can cause pain-a popular kid who comes out as gay is usually still popular).
Oh Lord!! Spare Us a Return of Goldfish Swallowing!!
I remember it’s first revival when I was in High School in the mid-70s. It wasn’t pretty…
@Paul #4: I liked my sister’s Barbies because they were waterproof and shatterproof — she could survive scuba-diving adventures in the toilet tank, and being dropped off the balcony onto the concrete courtyard of our apartment building (if the rope just happened to break while she was rappelling). Honestly, I would’ve preferred a 12″ GI Joe with changeable outfits, but I was born a bit too late for those, and I was reluctant to subject my Steve Austin figure to too much stress in case his bionic mechanisms might get damaged. (And he only came with one outfit, the red jogging suit.)
“I kind of wonder if, twenty years hence, the current mania for celebrating “transgenders” will be seen as a silly fad like coonskin caps and goldfish swallowing.”
I have seen it that way all along…
But I don’t remember any demonstrations about “Goldfish Rights!” or laws mandating no discrimination based on headgear.
Silly fad + irreversible surgical mutilation.
#11 – PETA?
The younger generation is more open to sexual experiences with either gender than ever before. But, do you mean to tell me, you didn’t go to college where there were straight girls who experimented with girls? (And, I went to school in the early 1990s). What rock have you been sleeping under?
And, I imagine there is a degree of it with people who think they’re trans. But, that doesn’t negate the fact that there are people who are genuinely trans.
Not sure what kinda leap you’re making, but it ends in a flop.
I think it’s a spectrum. There are those who must be, can not be anything other than pure heterosexual, just as there are those who must not, can not be anything other than pure homosexual. In between, there is a range of mostly one way or the other and those who will play both ways. The sex partner du jour will depend on other factors–options for sex, society trends, experimentation, being pushed, etc..
Learned behavior coupled with environmental factors. No homosexual or bisexual gene, just a manifestation of neurotic behavior. Never give me the “dead fish” handshake just because you know my “ex” wife.