According to a popular meme in the gay left, Vice-President Elect Mike Pence supports forcing gay teenagers to undergo electrocution as part of conversion therapy.
I won’t use the best word to describe what this claim is, but here’s a picture.
The entire basis for this claim comes from a website that Pence created to support his 2000 bid for a congressional seat. Under “Strengthening the American Family,” there was, among other things, this sentence.
Congress should support the reauthorization of the Ryan White Care Act only after completion of an audit to ensure that federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus. Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.
There is nothing in there about electrocution, or even “conversion therapy.” It’s about AIDS, and not encouraging people to spread it.
Hell, even the left wants to “change people’s sexual behavior,” what do you think those stupid “Affirmative consent” laws are about? What is indoctrination about safe sex and contraception if not an effort to change people’s sexual behavior?
There is more evidence to support the proposition that Barack Obama is a closet Muslim than there is in support of the proposition that Mike Pence wants to “electrocute the gay out of teenagers.” (Nowhere, for example, will you find an account of Mike Pence describing the screams of an electrocuted gay teenager as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”)
Since the Democrat Media Complex is all up in arms about “fake news,” why doesn’t this phony meme qualify?
Fake news that riles up part of the Democrat base is okay; always has been.
Name me one organisation that “celebrated” behaviours that facilitated the spread of HIV which received federal funding.
Also, please name me an institution that provided assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behaviour which didn’t involve conversion therapy.
Kay, thanks, bye.
That’s beside the point, Cray.
The website only said that it should simply ensure that they aren’t getting any.
Suppose there was a rumor that white nationalists were getting federal dollars, and a hearing was heard with the department giving the money. The department says they are not giving any funds now, but could not ensure that some were given in the past. So, you hold an audit to ensure that federal dollars are no longer being given to white nationalists.
You can’t name one can you? Because that’s exactly what Mike Pence was talking about.
Again, Mike Pence wanted resources directed to an audit to “institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.”
Name one. Mike Pence says they’re out there. Did he imagine them?
*Sorry.
quote should be “institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.”
Name one.
@1: it’s been a few years but at the time Pence was running, there were news reports from OK City of these groups passing out literature to high school students including information on, among other things, fisting and oral-anal sex. Naturally, parents (and people with common decency) were appalled.
This material was WAY beyond information regarding abstinence (always works), condoms, how disease is transmitted, and hygiene. I think this is what Pence, et al, were after.
I wish lefties would make up their minds… one day, we’re all prudes for thinking that people shouldn’t go round shagging anything that will stand still… the next day, we’re woman-hating libertines for thinking that adult women have the same capacity for consent as do adult men (i.e. responsibility for their actions).
I’m getting dizzy.
Discussing oral/anal sex and condoms aren’t mutually exclusive of each other.
And no one seems to have come up with an “institution[s] which provide[s] assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.”
Apparently, it’s changing the subject to ask. Yet, V the K maintains that because Conversion Therapy wasn’t conveniently named, that it wasn’t implied. What was implied by ““institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.”
Hey Cray, There are sexual addiction rehab centers such as the one that Tiger Woods went to. By the way, if a Republican governor was really advocating conversion therapy back in 2000, where was the lamestream media publishing Watergate/Bridgegate/Sarah Palin bans books type of reports to take him out? Do they not care about gay rights, or was is just because there was nothing damaging to report about?
I can’t name any specific institutions, wee Crayfish, but:
(1) Evangelical psychologist Dr. Warren Throckmorton is a prominent opponent of the “conversion therapy” offered by Exodus and NARTH, but he also endorses the “Gay by Birth, Celibate by Choice” approach (in other words, “behavior modification”) as a scientifically valid option for some people who have conflicts with sexual orientation and faith. He doesn’t insist that this celibacy should be the ONLY option, but simply makes the obvious point that “Stayin’ Away From Sin, One Day At a Time” is neither unscientific nor misleading to clients/patients.
(2) Gay septuagenarian and Stonewall activist Bill Weintraub has spent years arguing that gay men should “change their sexual behavior” in one very simple way: Stay on 2nd or 3rd base and STOP HAVING SO MUCH BUTTSECKXS, which is pretty much the only route by which HIV spreads among gay/bi men who don’t shoot smack.
Will Obama label this as “fake news”?
is there any factual evidence that Mike Pence supports “electrocuting the gay out of teenagers” as gay leftists are claiming?I’m addressing conversion therapy.
Conflicts which are aroused by that very faith as well as society. Sweet.
Or, you know, education about the spread of disease as well as its costs once you contact it, as well as the toll on your body. You know, like reality, facts, and stuff.
Cray, telling someone to wear a condom is an attempt to change their sexual behavior, so basically all sex ed, and I’m not aware of any sex ed class that teaches conversion therapy.
Also, the context of the paragraph is clearly about a sexually transmitted disease. Sexually transmitted diseases are typically spread by people having unsafe sex with multiple partners, so telling them to adjust that ‘sexual behavior’ is healthy and has nothing to do with conversion therapy. A monogamous gay couple using condoms are highly unlikely to be the topic of said paragraph.
Cray, did I not just get DONE explaining that the wording does not imply that any groups were documented as getting any federal funds?
Do you totally ignore refuting logic, or what?
Nor do I recall rumours of such organisations. Do you?
Throckmorton has also said that therapists (including Christian ones) have a duty to provide “client-centered” therapy, which means implicitly giving the client permission to choose an option that the therapist (including a Christian one) might disagree with.
In other words, if the conflicted gay client says, “You know what? I actually DON’T think that God wants me to be celibate; I think maybe God wants me to leave my church and find one more supportive of same-sex monogamy, and then try to look for a partner who wants to commit,” then the therapist should say, “Okay, that might be good for you.”
Because the client, in such a case, needs to worry about what is pleasing to God, and not what is pleasing to the therapist (or the client’s parents/pastor/fellow churchgoers).
Such education has been around for decades, yet if you read The Washington Blade or whatever, you’ll still see stories about 22-year-olds who somehow, mysteriously, were “diagnosed with HIV in 2015.”
Weintraub’s point — and I don’t thing it’s a particularly radical one — is that maybe this wouldn’t happen so much if gay-male culture would stop promoting anal sex as the utter apotheosis of man-to-man intimacy.
Because if young guys pick up the message — and they do — that anal intercourse is absolutely mindblowing and the prostate is the magical Male G-Spot and if they haven’t learned to bottom yet, they’re totally missing out… then OF COURSE they’re gonna wanna do it without a raincoat.
And here’s a challenge for you, CrayCray: Find me a well-funded gay “safer-sex education” site (NOT written by Weintraub or one of his unfunded grassroots admirers) that treats “frottage” as anything other than a two-line footnote.
Any male with half a brain and a working index finger can figure out the displeasure/pleasure of the male G-spot for themselves. No unprotected dick necessary. But, apparently, that has been covered in sex education for decades without any sexually oriented blindspots in the dispersement of said education.
I swear. You place blame SOLELY on gay society? Really? Perhaps if the school system influenced the messaging to gays from the start, they wouldn’t be susceptible to the messaging they find later in other places (Dan Savage–a media personality often ripped to shreds on this site–is a proponent of frottage).
How forward thinking.
Oh he is, is he? I was skeptical, so I Googled on “Dan Savage” and “frottage,” and here’s one of the top five hits — a response to a gay high-school junior who was frustrated about not being able to enjoy “real gay sex” with his boyfriend, a senior:
Apologies to everyone for the long quote; I just hoped to drive the point into Crayfish’s miserable little crustacean head that mentioning the word “frottage,” followed by a six-paragraph discourse on how to do anal sex, does not really make one a “proponent of frottage.”
Oh, bother…. My response to CrayCray’s #19 done got swallered by the filter. Could someone please check? (Oh, never mind, here’s the executive summary: Mentioning the word “frottage”, followed by a six-paragraph discourse explaining to gay high-school boys how to do anal sex, does not really make one a “proponent of frottage”.
Also: My god, CrayCray, you are really lazy.
I didn’t argue that he was against frottage.
I also didn’t see that article you posted btw.
It appears he goes through things in a rather detailed manner, emphasising safety, trust, and going at your own pace.
It appears to me that what he emphasizes is “The Joy of Fudgepacking.” I was struck by the fact that he recommended a “butt-plug” rather than something more along the lines of an “Aneros” toy. I also noticed that he managed to omit the single most important rule of bottoming, which is “push OUT while he’s pushing IN.” (This helps overcome the hardwired reflexive tendency of the inner sphincter to tense up when the outer sphincter is penetrated.) Which tends to confirm my suspicion that Mr. Savage has very little experience bottoming; he thinks it’s his divine right as the Top to use other men as Fleshlights.
One last thought for the night: Can ANYONE find ANY evidence that Dan Savage’s “anti-bullying” campaign ever made the bloody obvious and logical suggestion that Mixed-Martial-Arts athletes could offer self-defense training for LGBT kids on a pro bono basis?
Could be. Or maybe even only “use his man as a Fleshlight.”
The gay movement is still in its infancy in the grander scheme of things when you think about its mainstream acceptance, and still figuring itself out. It shall evolve like anything else.
From October 2016 column:
But what do I know of Savage’s sexual psychology and the permissive nature (and lack of assertiveness) of his partner of over a decade Terry Miller?
Judging from al-Cray-da’s hysterics, it appears that V’s headline is spot-on about idiocy. SMH…
Regards,
Peter H.
Hey Throbert,
Any further comment to my last post?
All right, CrayCray: There’s some evidence that going “monogamish” and having an “open marriage” was Dan’s idea, not Terry’s. Dan’s made clear that he’s the Top in the relationship with Terry, but possibly he enjoys bottoming or frottage when he hooks up with other guys. On the other hand, I stand by my assertion that he doesn’t give the impression of having first-hand experience with bottoming — or with frottage, for that matter.
Also, he shoulda written “there’s more to gay sex than anal, just as there’s more to straight sex than anal.” Because the rectum and vagina are different, ya know, and “gay anal” should only be compared to “straight anal.”
Other than that, I totally concede whatever point it was you were making.
So, CrayCrayPatriot tacitly and implicitly proclaims that how you go about having an orgasm is a “civil right” and by his fundamental construction of logic pedophilia is …. what? … if not a civil right?
CrayCrayPatriot threw down a very specific set of gauntlets:
(1.) Name me one organisation that “celebrated” behaviours that facilitated the spread of HIV which received federal funding.
(2.) name me an institution that provided assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behaviour which didn’t involve conversion therapy.
You may dismiss #1. entirely on the basis that CrayCrayPatriot” misquoted the quote as the actual wording was “celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus.”
Now, Dan Savage may not be technically tied to “celebrating and encouraging” a type of behavior that “facilitates” the spreading of the HIV virus, but just precisely why is it that gay men going through the “civil right” process of getting sexually gratified have been the epicenter of the effects of the HIV virus? More simply stated: the fastest route to obtaining the HIV virus is through unprotected sex with an HIV infected carrier.
Furthermore, the language used is important: “types of behavior.” Laws are always aimed at restricting “types of behavior” such as using the glass window as an entryway to parking in the hotel lobby or grabbing a cute passer-by and using him/her for instant gratification.
Admittedly, “celebrate” is a strange modifier, but how could you read the Dan Savage language on rear-ending and call it behavior neutral? Had Savage gone on to explain the process of enhancing the thrill by snuffing the receiver as part of the climax enjoyment, I guess he would still have just been Mr. Science doing his civic duty and discussing a civil right and blah, blah, blah.
As to #2, every psychiatrist is geared and ready to confront behaviors which are “abnormal” and to find some avenue for “converting” the “bad” behaviors into “acceptable” behaviors.
CrayCrayPatriot is hoist on his own petard. He may not allow himself to deny any narcissistic aspect of how he achieves sexual gratification because it tacitly and implicitly questions the entire concept of being “gay.”
So, like the abortion crowd, the libertine gay must believe that how he does sex is his privacy right and society may not judge him otherwise.This is revealed in his words @ #27 :
“Evolve” is a strange word to use, when “celebrate” might be actual objective.
I guess some gays believe they have what amounts to a special “civil right” that appends to how they exercise the right of Mr. Happy to be gratified.
Helio, you might try sticking your finger up your @ss sometime. Maybe then you wouldn’t have a constipated understanding of what I wrote.
You using the term perophilia into the equation only tells me where your mind is at.
99% of ex-gay therapy techniques don’t involve electrocution. It’s nothing more than sermons, Biblical pep talks, and religious voodoo.