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Milo Has to Sincerely Repudiate His Past Statements About Pederasty

Posted by V the K at 9:54 am - February 20, 2017.
Filed under: Gay Politics

With regard to the controversy about Milo Yiannopoulos allegedly defending pederasty; here’s what he has said about the allegation.

“I do not support pedophilia. Period. It is a vile and disgusting crime, perhaps the very worst,” Yiannopoulos stated. “There are selectively edited videos doing the rounds, as part of a co-ordinated effort to discredit me from establishment Republicans, that suggest I am soft on the subject.”

He added that he has exposed three pedophiles in his reporting: Louise Mensch’s former business partner Luke Bozier, anti-Gamergate activist Nicholas Nyberg and tech reporter Chris Leydon.

The Breitbart writer also penned a lengthy attack on pedophiles and their alleged progressive defenders in 2015.

His statement is a bit more unequivocal than Kevin Jennings’s, “The 15 year old I bragged about encouraging to engage in restroom hook-up sex was actually 16 when I encouraged him to engage in restroom hook-up sex.” And the left was all like, “OK, it’s cool. As long as it was technically legal.”

As for the claim that videos were “selectively edited,” I’m skeptical to put it mildly.

Milo should be consistent and forthright in his repudiation of his previoius comments, regardless of whether or how he meant them at the time. It’s important to never even convey the appearance of tolerating sex with underage kids. Paedophilia is disgusting and wrong. Defending it is reprehensible. (And before someone gets technical about the distinction between paedophilia and ephebophilia because, either way, underage kids should be hands off like they were plutonium.) If he is strong and consistent in his position, then I’m willing to give him a shot to redeem himself. If he does a Dan Savage and reverts to prior form after issuing a pro-forma apology, then I’m done with him.

I also don’t think Milo should address CPAC. It’s a socially conservative organization and Milo isn’t a social conservative. Ultimately, that’s between him and the organizers. Who cares what I think?

Update: CPAC disinvites Milo

 

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59 Comments

  1. Milo has come out clearly about pedophilia, but not so much on pederasty. . .

    He was quite clear that young lads still can consent when it comes to older suitors

    Cross-generational is ok. . . ?

    Comment by rusty — February 20, 2017 @ 10:41 am - February 20, 2017

  2. In other news, Woman who advertizes for a roommate who does not support Trump does so to keep her home free from bigots thus setting off every irony meter in a 200 mile radius.

    Comment by Craig Smith — February 20, 2017 @ 11:12 am - February 20, 2017

  3. Loons on the left, and loons on the right. All of them sooo principled.

    Comment by Martel's son — February 20, 2017 @ 11:16 am - February 20, 2017

  4. I was really hoping there was absolutely nothing to this story, but apparently there is. And I’m disappointed.

    I’m not going to give Milo a pass for this. I know he often favors deadpan hyperbole, that he frequently shoots from the hip. And, if it’s true, he has my sympathy for having been molested as a child by a priest. So I can believe that his comments about 13 year olds consenting with 20-somethings was his typical deadpan sarcastic humor as a way of coping with his own abuse. And he’s not exactly wrong that age of consent laws are arbitrary- looking at the U.S., some states have consent ages as low as 16 and as high as 21.

    But as a gay man of a Right-wing persuasion in the public eye, he should have been cognizant of the fact that there are plenty of people on both sides of the aisle who would use any excuse, up to and including the old pedogay trope, to discredit him, and that anything even smacking of pedophilia sends people rushing for the torches and pitchforks anymore. Even if he was just joking, he should know that lots of people on both sides of the aisle don’t react well to jokes on that subject. I can understand people like Guy Benson- who has had to deal with that stereotype- getting worked up about this.

    However, I’m also not going to pretend like the people who propagated the videos were just concerned citizens. The people I saw start it were holdout #NeverTrumpers who were apoplectic that Milo was speaking at CPAC Milo was the first Right-wing personality to really give vocal support to Trump. The story was also picked up by Ben Shapiro, who had a very public spat with Milo over Breitbart’s support of Trump, and other individuals who shall remain nameless who were stated supporters of #NeverTrump. And the Left’s outrage over this is pretty hypocritical coming from people who fawn over Roman Polanski. So there is undoubtedly a political component to this.

    For the record, I don’t think Milo is a pedophile. He is innocent until somebody can prove him guilty. I knew about the work he has done to expose pedophiles in the past long before this popped up, and the narrative from his detractors is already shifting from, “Milo is a pedophile!” to “Milo thinks pedophilia is OK!” Pedophiles tend to be a rather twisted sort of loyal to each other.

    We’ll see what comes of this. If there’s any truth to it, then we need to drop Milo like a hot potato. There have to be other funny, articulate gay conservatives out there who are willing to do what Milo does. For the time being, we need to tread carefully. We shouldn’t pull the usual groveling to the Left that we do anytime somebody on the Right puts their foot in their mouth- that never ends well- but we also need to quash any

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 12:40 pm - February 20, 2017

  5. Sean L, my view is sort of that if the right can forgive and embrace Norma McCorvey (the Roe of Roe-v-Wade), then we should be able to forgive Milo if… and I emphasize
    IF … he is sincere and contrite in repudiating his past comments that could be taken as tolerance for pederasty. And whatever he may have said about pederasty does not mean he is wrong about the cancer of feminism, or the fascism of the PC/SJW movement.

    Comment by V the K — February 20, 2017 @ 12:46 pm - February 20, 2017

  6. @ V the K: Yes, I agree. People on the Right are supposed to be forgiving of people when they sincerely apologize for their previous misdeeds. Which I absolutely think Milo has to do.

    I will point out that Milo isn’t wrong about the age of consent changing over time: Mary was probably a teenager and Joseph was probably in his 20s, which would cause all sorts of commotions nowadays. Romeo and Juliet is the story of a high school senior getting the hots for an 8th-grader. So I can see where he’s coming from on that issue, but as with many thing, I think the appropriate tack to take would be “that was then, this is now.”

    And I agree that his problems pertaining to this issue don’t invalidate his views on feminism or the SJW movement. Which I’ve noticed has led to some people being reluctant to call Milo out on this, even in a “dude, not cool” way, as they seem to believe that doing so would legitimatize the SJWs, or delegitimatize Milo’s criticisms of the SJWs.

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 1:01 pm - February 20, 2017

  7. Yiannopoulos has a problem & a running scorecard, which is part of his personality type since it varies. He’s brilliant, he was a welcome voice during the 2016 election season, but he purposely ratchets up the flamboyance [a shrink would say that’s a sign of insecurity], he defends accusations by revealing the united nations team in his bed [TMO & nauseating to more than a few], he’s a juvenile early 30s person & he has a penchant for verbal diarrhea.

    It’s this verbal thing, a continuous conversation with the public that so many fall victim. Romney stabbed himself to his own detriment, fatally. Bush Jr. was a total mess of not shutting his trap. So many examples. I’m cutting Milo some slack, because he’s brilliant & doesn’t need another little voice slicing through him at this time, especially when our rancid/rabid liberals seem to be enjoying the prospect of a scandal. This is Milo’s problem, he can figure it out, or not. However; it’s worth noting that a gay who thinks it’s a good idea to be moderate or socially liberal on the topic in question, makes a big mistake if they think to continue within the mainstream on the Right.

    I’m not a fan of the overly effeminate, but I try to be fair. I always think it’s important to have patience with youth, because they’re still learning. None of us need the “ew factor” right now & there will always be a bigot around every corner waiting for a mistake, when it comes to gays. Milo need not explain it all away that he’s being attacked by Establishment bozos or “conservatives that have it in for him”. As I said, it’s his problem. He’s not an institution that requires saving. He’s still learning. Someone that does well at being clear & delineating what “is”, isn’t necessarily someone that has an original thought to his name.

    Watch & wait.

    Comment by Hanover — February 20, 2017 @ 1:45 pm - February 20, 2017

  8. @ Hanover: I have my moments of snark and bombast, but I’m nothing like Milo and I’m several years his junior. Whether or not flamboyance on the part of gay men is a genuine personality tic or an affectation used to cover up insecurity that becomes so engrained as to become second-nature, I don’t know.

    Milo is fun in small doses, but I don’t know if I could handle him 24/7. I certainly don’t find him attractive. And part of me wonders if he wouldn’t be well-served by bringing a long a more butch American gay to act as his “straight” man.

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 2:18 pm - February 20, 2017

  9. I understand, Sean. Youth is what it is. Some are more “mature” than others. Some mature people are extremely juvenile. Pointing out someone is a young is only a caveat. I’m sure you’re a fine person, balanced & obviously more careful than most.

    Anyway, as of a bit ago, Milo’s invite to CPAC has been canceled. We are often our own worst enemies.

    Comment by Hanover — February 20, 2017 @ 2:31 pm - February 20, 2017

  10. A gay friend of mine says he can’t stand most Gay men, I can certainly see why.

    Comment by James — February 20, 2017 @ 2:56 pm - February 20, 2017

  11. This is why most twinks are better enjoyed gagged.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — February 20, 2017 @ 3:14 pm - February 20, 2017

  12. @ Ted B.: Tell me about it. Otherwise, they just make even more sound. 😉

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 3:20 pm - February 20, 2017

  13. Gay man suck :)~

    Comment by James — February 20, 2017 @ 3:21 pm - February 20, 2017

  14. However, I’m also not going to pretend like the people who propagated the videos were just concerned citizens.

    No. No, they were not. And by keeping that schtick alive they show themselves to be the morally bankrupt cretins they most likely are. There has been a lot of pearl-clutching over the past few days after the announcement was initially made, and judging from Bruce’s Twitter feed, still a fair amount though now in the vein of “I can’t believe he was invited in the first place!”

    I agree with Hanover in that this is Milo’s problem to sort out. I also wonder how many statements he needs to make before his position is clarified. The CPAC statement said his Facebook post was not enough. Okay, fine. What is, then? And the comparison to Norma McCorvey is quite apt. The antiabortion side accepted her and her talents and no one said, at least publicly, “But what about all the babies you helped kill through your prior actions over the years??”

    There’s always a certain amount of hypersensitivity in the same-gender-oriented communities over the subject of pedophilia and inter-generational relationships. It’s a complex issue with derisive terms used inside our communities (“chicken hawk”) and plenty of pseudo-psychological morality being thrusted from the outside (“arrested development” “intrinsically disordered”). There’s a tendency to overreact a bit in order to proclaim our disapproval of any inappropriate relationships. At the same time, there are plenty of examples of age-differental encounters and relationships in the heterosexual world over which a similar outcry isn’t raised. It’s 2017 and female teachers are still getting comparative slaps on the wrist for engaging in sexual relationships with underage male students. Some are still saying “How can a guy be raped by a woman in the first place?!” Until such attitudes change, it sounds a wee bit hypocritical to me to hyperventilate over someone who may not have been previously clear about their position on the issue.

    The other part about this matter that reeks is the fact that the hallowed space of CPAC has once again been sheltered from those nasty open homophiles. This entire incident brings back memories of GOProud and their issues with the same conference. While it may indeed be a predominantly social conservative gathering, I don’t recall many litmus tests outside of the one concerning whom one chooses to share a bed or backseat with. At a time when same-gender marriage is universal and conservative gays have very public positions in society, perhaps it’s time for the sponsoring organization to reexamine what their definition of “social conservative” is and to more uniformly apply it to their conference. Otherwise, they’re just another nonprofit with a desire for safe spaces.

    Comment by RSG — February 20, 2017 @ 4:08 pm - February 20, 2017

  15. CPAC, GoProud and Trump

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/other-races/143255-gop-gay-rights-group-to-bring-donald-trump-to-conservative-gathering

    Comment by rusty — February 20, 2017 @ 4:15 pm - February 20, 2017

  16. @ RSG: I know certain people will deny up and down, but the tone of certain gay people when Milo was invited bordered on indignant disbelief and rejection: what, I wasn’t good enough for you, but the flaming British poof is?!

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 4:19 pm - February 20, 2017

  17. So, what were the anti Semitic remarks that folk are charging Milo with?

    Comment by rusty — February 20, 2017 @ 4:42 pm - February 20, 2017

  18. I heard on a local radio in the Boston area, the Howie Carr Show, about Milo’s statement. Howie said that there is a video of Milo claiming it’s okay for underage boys to engage in sexual activities with older men. The video of this supposedly wasn’t doctored and spliced up to take his comments out of context. There’s even more information on this here,

    http://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/02/20/milo-joys-young-boys-sexual-relationships-older-men-unedited-video/

    Another radio host said Is Milo done and even Breitbart wants to sever ties with him. I don’t know. I feel very uncomfortable about Milo now. It will take a lot for him to redeem himself.

    Comment by pawfurbehr — February 20, 2017 @ 5:03 pm - February 20, 2017

  19. @ 18, Pawfurbehr, Milo shot himself in the foot.

    Comment by James — February 20, 2017 @ 5:08 pm - February 20, 2017

  20. As of 1542hrs MST Milo’s implosion is turning out to be one of the quickest in my memory. By end of day, Breitbart is expected to terminate him. I do feel sorry for those that have put all their eggs in his basket. /sarc

    I think, I’ll check later to see if Richard Grenell has anything to say on the matter. He has a nice Twitter account & is a cancer [or something] survivor.

    Comment by Hanover — February 20, 2017 @ 5:51 pm - February 20, 2017

  21. Publishing company Simon & Schuster has cancelled a book deal for alt-right personality Milo Yiannopoulos, following the circulation of a video in which he condoned pedophilia. The company had previously defended its decision to offer Yiannopoulos a $250,000 book deal, saying that the book would not contain the hate speech for which Yiannopoulos is famous.

    Comment by rusty — February 20, 2017 @ 6:16 pm - February 20, 2017

  22. Welp. Sic transit gloria mundi. Milo’s comments were wrong. But I can still express sympathy based on the fact that he is a victim of sexual abuse who is obviously still affected by it and needs help. I can’t really blame Breitbart for letting him go; from a purely political and financial standpoint, he’s a liability.

    I still think this was politically motivated. The timing was really suspicious. And I’m going to pop a cork if Ben Shapiro saunters back over to Breitbart and tries to take Milo’s job. I’m also really saddened that people seem to be skipping the fact that Milo is a victim and pouncing on him. I guess if calls of Nazism don’t get you thrown out of polite society, charges of pedophilia will.

    @ Hanover: Grennell is to be focusing on the fact that certain people on the Left seem to be trying for a two-for and saying this is a conservative gay panic. Or even implying that pedophilia is a broader gay issue.

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 6:17 pm - February 20, 2017

  23. I still think this was politically motivated. The timing was really suspicious.

    Totally. This is his “grab them by the p*ssy” moment. Simon & Schuster gets an easy out from a sticky situation, but too many others with less than legitimate issues are happy to kick him when he’s down. I wouldn’t be surprised if some left wing monkeywrenching helped highlight the video to his detractors in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see where he goes from here. If I had to give him advice, however, it would be in the form of a retired teacher once of my acquaintance who had a gay student come to him after being bullied. His advice: when cornered, attack. He needs to establish a rapid response team and rebut this ASAP.

    Comment by RSG — February 20, 2017 @ 6:56 pm - February 20, 2017

  24. The video of this supposedly wasn’t doctored and spliced up to take his comments out of context.

    I love Howie Carr, but I challenge any statement he made that “it wasn’t doctored”. How does he know? I assume he got the video from a source who wasn’t happy about Milo being invited to CPAC anyway.

    Comment by RSG — February 20, 2017 @ 6:57 pm - February 20, 2017

  25. There is culture and there is zeitgeist. As some actions in the society become more common and less “shocking” they may emerge as first gaining acceptance and then becoming a sort of right.

    Pederasty is not a common usage word and I don’t think its use is on any sort of ascendency. I suspect the average “man on the street” has no clue what it concerns. But I am fairly certain that just about everyone from a gilded penthouse to a homeless shelter has an opinion on the definition of pederasty: sexual activity involving a man and a boy.

    PETA has gone ballistic over pain inflicted on a lobster in a seafood house, but seems indifferent to a fetus being ripped apart in the womb of a 14 year old girl.

    A 14 year old has a woman’s right to choose, but her 25 year old sister can still be a child on the parent’s health insurance.

    Buffalo Bill Cody started working when he was 11 and became a Pony Express rider at 14. Among Joseph Smith’s reported 27 wives, two were 14 when they married him.

    The issue here is how society sorts out who is a man and who is a boy and who is a woman and who is underage and what, generally, society cares about sexual desires and proclivities.

    I opposed gay marriage. But, now that it is here, I have no feelings whatsoever about gay polygamy. And, I don’t guess that I much care is a horny gay 13 year old gets all warm and fuzzy with an octogenarian.

    I think it is the zeitgeist.

    However, I am still fairly Victorian minded when it come to sex slavery and luring the immature into situations beyond their understanding and ability to control. Meanwhile, on college campuses, it appears a woman is being raped if a man dares look at her twice.

    Color me confused. Antiquated. Feeling sands shifting due to whim. When a society grounds itself in moral relativism and situation ethics what clear and unambiguous voice is there to establish guiding principle? That is not a rhetorical question.

    Comment by Heliotrope — February 20, 2017 @ 7:11 pm - February 20, 2017

  26. @ RSG: I saw the video. No jumps or cuts that really stuck out to me. I didn’t want to watch it, but I needed to watch it for myself.

    There’s really no getting around it. Maybe he was trying to make a joke. Maybe he was being sarcastic. But putting that aside, he was saying that pedophilia only applies to pre-teens, and really didn’t seem to see a problem with, say, 13 and 28. Which is just indefensible.

    And now I have a pit in my stomach. Because I’ve recommended people watch his stuff. And now this reflects poorly on me. Now I feel like I need to apologize to those people. And like many gay right-wingers are saying, this sets us back in a bad way. We still have Guy Benson and Richard Grenell. I know Guy didn’t really like Milo, but he’s been pretty measured about this.

    I need a damn drink. And to Bruce et. al., you were right, I was wrong. I’m sorry. Happy now?

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 7:14 pm - February 20, 2017

  27. I think we can all agree that pedophilia is evil – there have been some stories in these parts in recent times about men abusing infants and toddlers (girls but unforgivable and revolting in any case).

    Regarding post-pubescent teens… I think there are degrees of wrong (22-17 isn’t near as wrong as 22-13, for example). If I were a judge, the difference in ages would influence the severity of sentence I’d impose. In any case, adults taking advantage of underage kids (male or female) is wrong given that teens that are involved with adults are likely to have other issues which makes them vulnerable to damage) and adults fiddling with kids have some issues as well.

    While Milo’s remarks may well indicate some character flaw, are they as bad as, say, Sen. Claire McCaskill telling a congregation at a black church in St Louis that W left blacks to die on rooftops after Katrina because he hates poor blacks?

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/george-bush-let-people-die-on-rooftops-in-new-orleans-because-they-were-poor-and-because-they-were-black/

    Until I view the video, I can’t pass judgement on Milo but, in general, I have a problem with single utterances being career/life-detonating events. James Watson (shared Nobel Prize for working out the structure of DNA; Tim Hunt, Nobel Prize in Medicine; and countless other people have been made “unpersons” for unapproved or ill-phrased comments). While Milo isn’t likely to score an Nobel in the hard sciences, it’s a similar pile-on.

    Conservatives must hold its public figures to a high standard but no one is perfect. Milo’s remarks may be stupid but hardly toxic in today’s world.

    Comment by KCRob — February 20, 2017 @ 7:25 pm - February 20, 2017

  28. Hard to believe it has been barely over a year. Feels longer.

    Here is a trip down memory lane.

    he seems like a narcissistic polemicist who saw an exploitable niche and filled it.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 20, 2017 @ 7:38 pm - February 20, 2017

  29. Milo’s remarks may be stupid but hardly toxic in today’s world.

    Didn’t we elect—twice—a president who had numerous actual physical encounters with people who were less than willing (and one, who famously was)? Weren’t we told “Shaddup, it’s just sex!” as well as “None of your business!” Some of those same types are now rejoicing in Mr Y’s defeat.

    Comment by RSG — February 20, 2017 @ 7:41 pm - February 20, 2017

  30. Nice trip down memory lane:

    http://www.gaypatriot.net/2016/01/01/2016-dangerous-faggot-of-the-year-milo-yiannopoulus/

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 20, 2017 @ 7:54 pm - February 20, 2017

  31. I do not understand why this is the occasion for a happy dance, but that’s just me.

    Comment by V the K — February 20, 2017 @ 8:22 pm - February 20, 2017

  32. @ Heliotrope: Dude. WTF?

    @ KCRob: If we criticize Whoopi for saying Woody Allan didn’t “rape rape” somebody, we need to take Milo to task.

    Oh, and look. CrayCray waltzing in to tell us “I told you so.”

    Comment by Sean L — February 20, 2017 @ 8:32 pm - February 20, 2017

  33. I do not understand why this is the occasion for a happy dance, but that’s just me.

    Oh, you’re still superior in every way V the K, and I’m just a “stupid” Velcro-wearing subhuman without any moral compass. Not that that needs to be said. I’m sure it goes without saying on GP.

    However, it’s not exactly the happy dance you’re reducing it too. I could have done better and been more aggressive about how problematic MY-low was.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 20, 2017 @ 8:40 pm - February 20, 2017

  34. I’m done with hearing about CPAC and never trumpers, they all are one and working together and tried to get Hillary elected.

    Comment by Paul in N. AL — February 20, 2017 @ 8:42 pm - February 20, 2017

  35. I saw the video. No jumps or cuts that really stuck out to me. I didn’t want to watch it, but I needed to watch it for myself.

    There’s really no getting around it.

    I have not seen the video. I did hear statements attributed to an external podcast which was broadcast on FNC’s The First 100 Days this evening, who also had Matt Schlapp from ACU on to explain the decision. The comments I heard on the podcast—from the horse’s mouth—reflect his explantation of his remarks after the fact: that there are effective mentorships between older and younger gay men. Some of the younger people may not be of the age of majority. He implied it was beneficial, particularly in cases where there were no male role models in the home of origin and/or where there was an abusive, unsupportive environment. In that context, he’s not wrong. What I did not hear him say was “Sex with kids is totally cool, man!” Yet that seems to be the takeaway from those who see the video or read the story.

    Back in the last part of the last century when I was enrolled in video production classes, the only way to edit video was to take it from multiple sources (usually videotape) and mix it while recording it on a new videotape. Sometimes sound was done at the same time; other times it was a separate process. Those who were good at it could do it so it was indistinguishable from an original real-time source, even with a slight loss in degradation. Today it’s all digital and can be done from a halfway decent laptop. The audio track can be manipulated separately from the video track and made to match the video. A copy of a copy of a copy is as good as the original. I’m not saying that the video was indeed ‘doctored’ [Milo’s word], but only that it could very likely be done without many, if any, noticing. Even the podcast broadcast on FNC had numerous background noise and voices and was hardly “clean”, in an audio production sense. But for now, it really doesn’t matter. The opponents have their pound of flesh and are happily devouring it.

    Comment by RSG — February 20, 2017 @ 10:09 pm - February 20, 2017

  36. The latest Milo controversy seems to me to be a case of him speaking a little too frankly about realities that most of the gay left wants to keep deeply hidden in the closet, simply because acknowledging them risks derailing their political agenda. I say that because I have met a number of gay men who have told me that their first sexual experiences occurred when they were in their early teen years with men who were much older.

    And even within the gay world, there is certain sector of the population that fetishes about what are called “Dad” and “Son” relationships, where there is an age difference of at least 20 years or more. Although most of these relationships are perfectly legal because the younger partner is of consensual age, many of these relationships appear to be playing on fantasies which are strictly taboo.

    I can understand social conservatives being troubled by what Milo said, but the left–and the gay left in particular–is just using the old Alinsky technique to destroy an opponent, since a gay leftist who said the same things would not just be tolerated, but would also be defended.

    Comment by Kurt — February 20, 2017 @ 11:43 pm - February 20, 2017

  37. I say that because I have met a number of gay men who have told me that their first sexual experiences occurred when they were in their early teen years with men who were much older.

    When I went to high school (late 80s/early 90s in rural part of U.S.) there weren’t people who were out, like there are today. In that environment, you had teens looking to experiment with others teens where they could find it without getting the sh!t beat out of them. Otherwise, you had them looking elsewhere to yes, older and willing partners.

    In an environment where being gay is accepted and people are more comfortable coming out at a younger age, there are more opportunities for teenage gays to discover themselves sexually with other teenagers (like a straight teenager would). In societies where being gay isn’t accepted or as accepted, the more sexually curious gays are going to search outside of the world that contains their peers who will judge/hurt them.

    I’d imagine the incidence of of teen gays seeking out relationships with adult gays goes down over time in societies where being gay is acceptable and welcomed.

    I dare say you’d find more stories the further you go back in time, and less so with today’s first world teenagers by contrast. I’m being pragmatic here.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 21, 2017 @ 12:06 am - February 21, 2017

  38. Milo tells the truth, which most people can’t take, especially the gutless wonders of cpac. Why in the world would they ever have invited him to begin with?

    Comment by Dick — February 21, 2017 @ 12:18 am - February 21, 2017

  39. I can understand social conservatives being troubled by what Milo said, but the left–and the gay left in particular–is just using the old Alinsky technique to destroy an opponent, since a gay leftist who said the same things would not just be tolerated, but would also be defended.

    Bingo. Well put, Kurt (your entire post). The younger/older dynamic has been a part of same-gender socialization for centuries. I remember being in college and having an older acquaintance (then in his 40s-early 50s) tell me of being propositioned by a 15-year-old outside the bathroom of the local mall. He said that from the guy’s technique and boldness it was clear that it wasn’t his first time at the restroom rodeo. I’ve also heard plenty other stories from others of being initiated into the world of same-gender relationships via an older person. The joyous celebration of the gay left (and the left in general) over this affair is purely self-serving.

    Comment by RSG — February 21, 2017 @ 1:29 am - February 21, 2017

  40. The joyous celebration of the gay left (and the left in general) over this affair is purely self-serving.

    Again …

    I dare say you’d find more stories the further you go back in time, and less so with today’s first world teenagers by contrast. I’m being pragmatic here.

    If it’s not clear, I endorse society being accepting and welcoming of gays. That way, more and more teenagers can access more “normal” rites of passages such as their straight counterparts (i.e. falling in love and dating those their own age in the realm of their sexual orientation).

    I know that’s a bit hard to understand for many on here that I have this opinion. I don’t think I can make it any more clearer.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 21, 2017 @ 1:45 am - February 21, 2017

  41. I’d imagine the incidence of of teen gays seeking out relationships with adult gays goes down over time in societies where being gay is acceptable and welcomed.

    And I would posit that there is no direct correlation. Why? Because in perusing online profiles and ads I see more younger guys seeking “daddies” than at any other time in my life. These aren’t just thirtysomethings who have fantasies out of an old issue of Honcho magazine; they are 18-21 year olds (and sometimes younger) who, in some cases just have wild fantasies, but also from the tone is obvious that they know what they want and have been getting it for quite some time.

    Anecdotal? Sure. But having been in the online world for 25 years, it has definitely gone from older ‘trolls’ seeking younger to those who are young seeking older men. With all the social interaction available and opportunities to meet other people their own age on- and offline (GSAs, etc) there should be little or no seeking of older partners out of necessity.

    That way, more and more teenagers can access more “normal” rites of passages such as their straight counterparts (i.e. falling in love and dating those their own age in the realm of their sexual orientation).

    I’m sure that’s occurring at a greater rate than any time in modern history. I’m also pretty sure that the incidence of younger males who are actively seeking out significantly older encounters is also on the rise. I would imagine that social conservatives attribute it, charitably, to the increase of single-parent households and lack of male role models. That may indeed be true, but at any rate it is happening.

    Comment by RSG — February 21, 2017 @ 2:48 am - February 21, 2017

  42. And I would posit that there is no direct correlation. Why? Because in perusing online profiles and ads I see more younger guys seeking “daddies” than at any other time in my life. These aren’t just thirtysomethings who have fantasies out of an old issue of Honcho magazine; they are 18-21 year olds (and sometimes younger) who, in some cases just have wild fantasies, but also from the tone is obvious that they know what they want and have been getting it for quite some time.

    That’s interesting. I mean, I’m on Grindr (not that I ever actually actively do anything with it). I have my actual age of 43 on my profile (unlike most people), and while I look good for my age, I’m very clearly passed the age of 35. I get propositioned by all types, including those with “daddy complexes,” whether they be “18” or anywhere in their 20s. I really don’t give them two thoughts. But, I know they’re out there. I can’t say personally that they have grown in proportion over time to any great extent.

    I’m speaking from what I would have wanted when I grew up. I grew in a farm town of about 5,000. I wasn’t very sexually advanced for my age to put it generously, and I was sheltered as well, so in high school in the late 80s/early 90s (population of about 900 or so at the time) I was very asexual. I didn’t pursue any fellow classmates (as far as I knew, there hadn’t ever been a gay couple or lesbian couple at my high school ever, and no one was actually “out” in the sense that they said they were “gay”; I only knew of a few others I “suspected,” and they weren’t people I had anything in common with otherwise and/or were attracted to), and I wouldn’t have known the first place to look for an “older, experienced man.” I was once put in a position where a family friend (who was around the age of 45) asked me at age 13 or so if I wanted to spend the night (while my mother was generally very strict and overprotective, she could also occasionally be very naive–maybe it had something to do with her being Eastern European, I have no idea–and in this one instance she strangely left it up to me). I said “no,” as something about the situation didn’t feel right. I have no idea what would have happened had I said “yes.” As it turns out later, the guy (who was a paediatrician) was wanted for kidnapping and molesting two boys.

    Anecdotal? Sure. But having been in the online world for 25 years, it has definitely gone from older ‘trolls’ seeking younger to those who are young seeking older men. With all the social interaction available and opportunities to meet other people their own age on- and offline (GSAs, etc) there should be little or no seeking of older partners out of necessity.

    You make a good point. However, this point also assumes in this day and age, the playing field is even everywhere: every town is accepting and welcoming of gays, there are no negative repercussions to openly dating someone of the same sex, etc. This would be incorrect, no? While in the media gays have been mainstreamed, the effects of which haven’t perfectly, seamlessly trickled down to every community in the first world. There are still places with high schools where you can’t just date someone of the same sex where it’s viewed exactly the same way as if you were to date someone of the opposite sex. So this “there should be little or no seeking of older partners out of necessity” I question. We have come a long way since I was in high school twenty-five years ago, but it’s not commonplace where teen suicide, bullying, AND (read AND, not AND/OR) family ostracisation/disapproval/judgment stemming from non-heterosexual tendencies still doesn’t play a role in our first world countries. Again, we have come a long, long way, and homosexuality is way more accepted today than when I was in school.

    But, I also hear you and we agree that, theoretically, there should be more availability for “normal” rites of passages for gay teens, and what you’re saying is that you don’t see that reflected in the online world. Okay, I don’t discount your anecdotal experience. And I’m also speaking from my online experience, as well as my bias as to what I “would have liked” when I was in high school (social acceptance of gays to the point where classmates were out and available to date). Why you aren’t seeing this reflected online with a drying up of youngsters with a daddy complex, I have no idea. I just know what I would have preferred and needed in my youth.

    I’m sure that’s occurring at a greater rate than any time in modern history. I’m also pretty sure that the incidence of younger males who are actively seeking out significantly older encounters is also on the rise.

    I think we agree.

    The joyous celebration of the gay left (and the left in general) over this affair is purely self-serving.

    This is where we disagree. I’m not sure where you are coming at here. I think most parents whether they be conservative or liberal would clutch their pearls at their teen CHILD (male or female, gay or straight) dating an adult. Of course, there are going to be outliers on the liberal side (as well as situations where rejected children from conservative households leave the home at an early age and consequently sometimes pursue more mature partners), but it’s quite shocking to me that you say ‘the left in general.” When I think of the “left in general,” I think of your “average Hillary voter.” Your average Hillary voter is a parent. And that parent isn’t going to allow their child to date an adult. Not without a fight. Sorry. To say that the celebration of the left in general (who, btw, most of them don’t even know MY-low existed up until now, if they even know who he is) towards his “demise” is completely self-serving is to argue that they don’t care about the reasoning he got taken down in the first place (his “pro-hebephilic” views, for the lack of a better way of putting it). I posit they they do care, along with disagreeing with his caustic style and what he stood for. The only purpose he served was to point out the liberal media bias. Yet, his rise wasn’t changing anything. His repellent behaviour and views weren’t changing anything either. It only made the left more sanctimonious. As we see with Trump, the more the liberal media are criticised, the more they dig their heels in.

    What is needed are more sensible figures that can criticise both sides equally like David Rubin (I am not a fan, but at least the guy tries to be non-partisan). But, then, he says something stupid like Jesus hung out with Muslims, and then what happens? Someone like V the K choose THIS instance to reference him for the first time on GayPatriot. :smdh:

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 21, 2017 @ 5:24 am - February 21, 2017

  43. *Sorry, forgot to close italics. They should have been only around “like.”

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 21, 2017 @ 5:29 am - February 21, 2017

  44. *his “pro-hebephilic” views

    In the “spirit” of trying to extract what MY-low was communicating, in good faith, even though he mentioned the age of “13,” it *sounds* like he was discussing post-pubescent teens. Maybe “his pro-ephebophilic views” would have been more accurate.

    Regardless, legally speaking, it’s considered pedophilic any way you slice it, as it was in defiance of even some of the most liberal age-of-consent laws.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 21, 2017 @ 6:37 am - February 21, 2017

  45. There’s a number of right wing radio hosts who are jumping on this. However, they can be low life weasels just like the left wing ones. So fuck him! I’m still sceeved by Milo’s statement.

    Comment by pawfurbehr — February 21, 2017 @ 7:50 am - February 21, 2017

  46. I can maybe… a very, very qualified maybe… entertain an argument that 16/17 is old enough for consent (it’s 16 in my home state of Pennsylvania), but that’s mostly in the interest of keeping high school sweethearts from getting put on the sex offender list for being stupid and having sex on prom night or something. But a lot of states have “Romeo and Juliet” laws for that, and at least in PA, the consent laws are phrased in such a way that kids under 18 can’t get in trouble for fooling around, and that 18-year-olds have a bit of a grace period (nobody under 16, or at least from what I remember).

    Here’s the thing. Milo had a shot at redemption if he apologized fully and completely. But he didn’t. He tried to blame others and didn’t own what he said. He tried to say the tape was doctored (it wasn’t), he said he was talking about 16/17 year-olds (he explicitly mentioned 13 in the tape), and tried to say that people misinterpreted “boys” and “intergenerational relationships” (well, how were they supposed to take them in the context of the conversation?). He said that he wants age of consent lowered… but if he thinks 28-on-13 is appropriate, how does that balance it out.

    But if this is how people want to play, then there are a lot of public figures who need to get ridden out of town on a pole. Sarah Silverman once tweeted if it was okay if a teenager “made the first move.” Slate once ran an article written by a known pedophile who described himself as “a victim, not a monster,” and the National Review defended the move. Whoopi Goldberg infamously said that statutory rape wasn’t “real” rape. I’m not objecting to Milo being taken to task for his words, but I’m just uncertain why people aren’t taking his own history as an abuse victim into account, and why certain people who have expressed similar views to him have not been cast out of polite society for ever and a day.

    Comment by Sean L — February 21, 2017 @ 8:35 am - February 21, 2017

  47. The NeverTrumpers at Red State are jumping on the ‘Crucify Milo’ bandwagon. The really ugly part of this is how mixed up in politics this has become. I think his statements on pederasty were frankly horrid, and I don’t personally think they were ‘taken out of context;’ I think he was deliberately going for edgy and overshot the mark. That said, he has repudiated them unequivocally and he should be given a chance to demonstrate that — unlike Lena Dunham, Roman Polansky, or Kevin Jennings — his repudiation is sincere.

    But there is politics mixed in with this. To the NeverTrumpers on the right and the #NotMyPresident on the left (kindred spirits), Milo is hated because he is a representative of the broader rejection of political orthodoxy that Trump represents, i.e. a representative of the “alt-right,” which is despised because it arose primarily because of the failure of the Establishment Right to oppose Obamunism; much less advance any conservative ideology. They don’t hate him because of the alleged tolerance for pederasty, they hate him because of politics and his past remarks are just the cudgel he has handed them. If he were on either of their sides, they would find a way to excuse and forgive his remarks. As they have done in the past for their allies like Lena Dunham, Roman Polanski, or Victor Salva.

    Comment by V the K — February 21, 2017 @ 8:35 am - February 21, 2017

  48. Whoopi Goldberg infamously said that statutory rape wasn’t “real” rape.

    And she said that of a case where a 13 year old girl was drugged and sodomized by a director who lured her to his home offering to put her in movies. Like I said, people find a way to defend it if it’s one of their allies.

    Also, there are 16 and 17 year olds capable of growing full beards, so they are obviously physically mature, and some of them maybe emotionally mature enough for sexual relationships. Others never really grow up and become leftists. But regardless, I think we err on the side of caution. There’s obviously a world of difference between a 24 year old preying on a 14 year old and a 44 year old in a relationship with a 34 year old.

    Comment by V the K — February 21, 2017 @ 8:53 am - February 21, 2017

  49. Milo has been the focus of the war on political correctness. He reached the “cannot be ignored” level. Political correctness is based on what we are directed to think and how we are directed to behave in order to be left alone by the political correctness gestapo.

    Milo has a huge number of enemies who want to shut him up. They can’t discredit him, so they want to seal his mouth.

    Now this. Did Milo “jump the shark” or did he use his platform to wander from political correctness stuff over to getting into fundamental differences concerning morality.

    No matter whether he was edited and put there or he just walked into the fire, he has now been silenced and the political correctness crowd is happy, happy, happy.

    Milo must know that he was not being celebrated for his gayness. To some extent, he was a Stepin Fetchit. I am relatively certain he fully understood that, because he was a master at self-ridicule.

    Apparently, man-boy hook-up culture is not ready to be celebrated. Or, maybe man-boy hook-up culture is just useful to the political correctness gestapo and in truth, they really don’t care what “those people do.”

    It is beyond my ability to comprehend. I can see a stark parallel, though.

    Trump is the poster child for political incorrectness. Since he first gained notice, the political correctness people set themselves on “hair-trigger” and sat spring loaded waiting for Trump to have his Milo moment. They sit on the edges of their seats and scour every utterance he makes and clutch their pearls and go Chicken Little 24/7/ 31,32,33….. If Trump ever picks his nose, Katy bar the door.

    Milo’s flamboyant gay schtick has had to be ignored, because gays are automatically politically protected by the political correctness crowd. That was part of Milo’s attack plan. Now they can condemn him for being yet another Jerry Sandusky. (But not a Gerry Studds who was an elected Democrat who was censured in 1983, but kept on trucking’ until he decided not to run again in 1997. Members of the gestapo get different treatment.)

    From my perspective, gay is gay and straight is straight and never the twain shall meet. Some gays “act all straight” and want marriage and raise chidden and be generally “accepted” as hardly different from straights. Some straights treat the fact of being gay as a unique and valued present from gaia and go all kumbaya as an exuberant expression of their magnanimous cultural diversity genes. No matter how the zeitgeist treats the gay/straight dissimilarities, they can not, by definition, actually be blended.

    The mini-biographies which sometimes spill out on this sire about being a gay teen in a straight world are clear warnings that facing “gay” reality is not simple stuff. But it is also clear in my view that accepting gay reality continues to vex a significant portion of the members of the gay world. However, gay “causes” are very likely to drag a lot of gays into a mess not of their choosing and to put them into a place they really do not care to be. Man-boy love is clearly one of those places.

    Now we will see if the political correctness gestapo will try to carve out a gays only exception for man-boy love based on some mythical ancient Greek model. If so, I want the deal with the naked woman with the amazing jugs leaping over a bull to be brought back.

    Comment by Heliotrope — February 21, 2017 @ 10:06 am - February 21, 2017

  50. Whoopi Goldberg needs Shampoo Relief for her hair that she hasn’t washed in about 13 years.

    Comment by Pawfurbehr — February 21, 2017 @ 10:28 am - February 21, 2017

  51. I can fully understand the attraction some younger homosexual men feel towards older men: with age comes experience, wisdom, and (hopefully) stability that the younger man seeks. I can hardly blame a 22-year-old taking a shine for an older man and the two of them being naughty together; hell, I’ve done it myself. Afterwards, we’ve expressed how refreshing we find each other: I because they are less vain, paranoid, or picky than men around my age, and they because they think I’m more mature and thoughtful than other men my age and don’t immediately dismiss them as “ugly old farts.”

    I think a good rule of thumb is, don’t publically date somebody who is younger than half your age plus seven. That way, younger men be be associating with men their own age, and once they’ve matured and grown a little, they can take older partners without too much risk of scandal. The only point it gets a little dicey is that by this logic, an 18-year-old could go out with a 16-year old, and a 20-year-old with a 17-year-old; a 21-year-old could date somebody who’s closer to 18 than 17. Which, not quite sure if that’s the end of the world, but I would never condone it in that situation.

    Comment by Sean L — February 21, 2017 @ 11:09 am - February 21, 2017

  52. I think a good rule of thumb is, don’t publically date somebody who is younger than half your age plus seven.

    I’m not sure there is a good rule of thumb that can be reduced to a mathematical formula. I’ve always been attracted to older people in general, from an intellectual standpoint. (Growing up with older aunts & their friends and having a close early relationship with grandparents contributed to that, IMHO.) In the gay world, that has manifested itself in being seen with older men and experiencing chatter that we are an “item” (which has never happened in the way reflective of the commentary).

    OTOH, I’ve usually been attracted to younger men (20s-30s) on an emotional & physical level. As I’ve grown older, this has resulted in an interesting dynamic. The guys who are now close to the same age as those who wouldn’t give me the time of day when we were the same age are now “after” me in a way that I find incredulous. The innate skeptic in me always tries to explain it away because they are also “after” something else. Yet, when things settle out, that is almost never the case. They truly enjoy my company (for many of the same reasons Sean stated). Do they have issues? Sure. But no more than the guys my chronological age who are still behaviorally weird or seem to have a psychosexual development of the average 17-year-old. All things equal, I would still rather deal with a twentysomeing who has a good head on his shoulders and is working out things, sometimes messily, than a forty- or fiftysomething who is still stuck in the late 1980s and sees gayness strictly in terms of achieving an orgasm with a gender they are attracted to and says they are interested in “having someone to come home to” but in reality are perfectly happy coming home only to their pet.

    Now if we can just eradicate the lockstep indoctrinated thinking that crosses generations in the alphabet soup community, it may one day truly be a better world.

    Comment by RSG — February 21, 2017 @ 12:20 pm - February 21, 2017

  53. Half your age plus Seven. . .49-50 thus 25 plus 7 32

    I have a high school friend who after a long marriage to his high school sweetheart, divorced and remarried, at 60 his new bride is 29. Their situation is complicated because there is talk about creating a family. . .any offspring would be younger than the grandchildren.

    Complicated lives.

    Another friend, long term State Trooper, in mid 50’s married his 26 year old boyfriend.
    He had been married up until 2000ish but came out with 2 young daughters. Everyone is kewl now but it has been a long adjustment period.

    Then another Gay man 49, pushing 50, married a younger man, pretty much the age of his oldest son. Interesting dynamics.

    Comment by rusty — February 21, 2017 @ 1:03 pm - February 21, 2017

  54. The left-wing Salon.Com has deleted from its website all of its previous articles defending paedophilia.

    Thanks for supporting my point, left-wingers at Salon.

    Comment by V the K — February 21, 2017 @ 1:12 pm - February 21, 2017

  55. Half your age plus Seven. . .49-50 thus 25 plus 7 32

    Hmmn. I’ll be there pretty soon. I’m probably going to age as a singleton at this point if I can’t hook Peter H (I think he’s three/four years older than me which is perfect). But, if I can’t find someone ten years older/younger, forget it. I know love comes in different shapes and sizes. But, it would be too weird to be with someone in their 20s or early 30s when I hit 50 (or, likewise, someone in their 60s+). Call me mainstream, old-fashioned, I guess. But, as long as people are happy, I can’t judge. It’s tempting, though. It happens on GP. It’s hard not to get sucked into judging others.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 21, 2017 @ 2:00 pm - February 21, 2017

  56. And, if it’s true, he has my sympathy for having been molested as a child by a priest. [emphasis added]

    Okay, I’m spooked by Sean’s telepathic powers, because the thought also occurred to me that Milo invented the “Father Michael” story in order to be sensational.

    Part of me suspects that it’s NOT true. We all know there’s a seamy underside in gay male culture that defends the “If there’s grass on the playing field…” principle. Gay teenage boys are fragile creatures who go into a fetal position and cut themselves if mean conservatives vote against same-sex marriage — but they’re emotionally and intellectually competent to handle sex with a 40-year-old man.

    P.S. Google on “Alcibiades” and “Socrates” and “Plato’s Symposium“. (Alcibiades and Socrates were both historic figures, but Plato’s version of them should be understood as a parable, not literal truth.)

    Comment by Throbert McGee — February 21, 2017 @ 10:17 pm - February 21, 2017

  57. The comments I heard on the podcast—from the horse’s mouth—reflect his explantation of his remarks after the fact: that there are effective mentorships between older and younger gay men.

    Fair enough. But I would expect an intelligent gay man (not Milo) to realize that even if he himself had been totally curious and eager to fool around with this alleged “Father Michael” and thought it was great fun, it’s possible that this Father Michael had also been with other teenage boys who were NOT so curious, NOT as eager, and had to be psychologically coerced or intoxicated or physically forced.

    Comment by Throbert McGee — February 22, 2017 @ 12:09 am - February 22, 2017

  58. Milo acknowledged he was abused in his press conference today

    Conservative firebrand Milo Yiannopoulos said Tuesday he was sexually abused twice as a child, once by a priest, during a news conference where he apologized for and defended comments he made condoning pedophilia.
    “I am a gay man, and a child abuse victim. Between the ages of 13 and 16, two men touched me in ways they should not have,” he began a news conference in Manhattan. “This isn’t how I wanted my parents to find out about this either.”

    Comment by rusty — February 22, 2017 @ 12:52 am - February 22, 2017

  59. I hope he gets the help he needs.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — February 22, 2017 @ 10:08 pm - February 22, 2017

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