If President Obama had ordered an FBI investigation to stop: It would have been a legal order. He would have been 100% within his constitutional powers.
Whether it would have been a politically smart move, is a different and legitimate question.
Whether he would have been covering something up – or maybe not – is a different and legitimate question.
Whether Congress and/or media and/or citizens should then investigate whatever he MIGHT have been covering up, is a different and legitimate question.
Whether he would have been right morally, is a different and legitimate question.
Whether Congress should then try to punish him, via censure or impeachment – or maybe not – is a different and legitimate question.
But would Obama’s order, as such, have been a crime of obstruction? No. Because here in America, we have something called a “constitution” which creates “separation of powers” including a unitary “executive branch”, in which the FBI resides.
The FBI does not reside in the legislative branch (Congress).
The FBI does not reside in the judicial branch (Supreme Court).
The FBI resides in the executive branch and, at the end of the day, follows the policies and orders of a chain of command that goes to the Attorney General and then to the President.
That is how the U.S. system of government works. Obama could have literally ordered the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation to stop, and he would have been within his legal powers. (But again: the optics, morality, and how Congress and the citizenry should follow up on his order, would be different and legitimate questions.)
Now, substitute “President Trump” for “President Obama” in the above, and do the math. We’ll wait.
After that, we can turn to fact that President Trump actually never ordered any FBI investigation to stop.
Which fact means that you, lefties, are working yourselves up – and dividing America with your hate-filled hysteria on the Comey-Flynn matter – and making deadly (or potentially deadly) assaults on your fellow Americans – for nothing.
Thanks for the refresher.
If I may, just one remark:
however, lefties couldn’t care less about the Constitution — what they care about is… feelings — that is: theirs.
As for the not-so-subtle distinction between the 3 branches of government, that too, is about as important to them as freezing the debt ceiling has been to Barack Obama in the last 8 years.
It’s the Democrat Media that’s radicalizing the Left. A president, candidate first, obviously has the supreme perspective. Pres Trump has previously branded the Dem Media as the enemy of the American people. He was right. What the president can do right now that won’t get him in hot water but will send a distinct message; is move the White House press Briefing Room to the Eisenhower Executive Office Building across the street. That’s still part of the actual White House compound, technically.
And I wonder if the Washington Post article saying that President Trump is being investigated for obstruction of justice is true? But, if Mueller is looking at Trump’s financial dealings, that is going to open up a can of whoop ass for sure…
USA Today has pointed out Mueller’s conflicts of interest and called for him to step down: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/06/14/mueller-should-recuse-himself-from-investigating-russia–comey-william-otis-column/102827924/
#3 Cas, actually, the IRS knows exactly what the presidents taxes are doing, so your little can of whatever is just you being radicalized by the Dem Media. If you were to actually ::read:: one of the rumors about Mueller, you’d notice that it’s supposedly something about obstruction of justice per the NYT. It’s people like you I’d never turn my back on. Ever. Passive regressive. Uninformed. Circular arguments. Revisiting old points. Repetition. Oh yes, I’ve read your drivel.
The Dem Media keeps this up? Trump will be able to fire Mueller without political consequence. The fact is, Mueller has stacked his little deck with Obama & Hillary operatives. In & of itself that’s political reason to call the prosecutor to an immediate halt. But you know what, in the 2 or 3 evidence-free investigations, as dragnets, they’ve only pulled up hearsay about Flynn, which would be totally unrelated to Trump! That’s it. The fact that there are investigations may play well among Leftist freaks, thugs & assassins, but congresses have always had their hearings on every little thing. It’s what they do other than pressing their voting buttons on larger governments.
So you can take your Dem Media talking points & hold it close to your dingy little heart, because that’s all you have. Hillary lost. You lost. Russia may have tried to interfere in both parties but everyone, & I do mean everyone except the Dem parrots & drones, agrees that nothing Russia may have done affected anyone changing their vote from Hillary to someone else.
The only actual, proven rigging of voting happened within the Democratic Party blocking out Sanders. Ironic that it was one of his insects that attempted an assassination Wednesday. They’re not the brightest folk.
As far as I’m concerned All Democrats are terrorists. Attacking the Constitution, attempting assassination, attempting to install a documented corrupt harpy, reducing the power of the US in the world, trying to trade away our sovereignty, not accepting the Presidential Election results, shutting down free speech, incitement to riot – shall I go on? You are everything the US has fought against in the past. You & yours. You will fail.
[ 1.] : Mueller has to investigate for obstruction of justice. That is why he was hired. The Washington Post might as well scream headlined that the sun is hot. Mueller can investigate to see if Trump’s hair is real. In connection with ILC’s excellent post, Trump can order Sessions to fire Mueller.
[ 2.] : Mueller can wander into the Trump financial dealings. What I question is why anyone thinks, or presumes to know that looking into Trump’s financial dealings will “open up a can of whoop ass?” Trump is headquartered in New York State which has the toughest and most corrupt DemonizingRat junk yard dogs tearing people they don’t like into little bitty pieces. Cuomo had ample opportunity to make his bones by battering Trump. It there is a Trump can of Whoop Ass, the DemonizingRats sure haven’t got a clue about how to topple The Donald or they would have had his scalp a long time ago. Ditto the Feds. You must be sentient enough to understand that the IRS has long had people permanently assigned to Trump’s financial dealings.
The “for sure” is a different story. Progressives “feel” that every rich man who doesn’t pamper them is a heinous crook sucking life out of peasants for pleasure.
The only reason the likes of Pelosi want Trump’s tax returns is so accountant vermin can dig up possible process issues and that can be blown out of proportion and waved like a bloody shirt.
Can anyone imagine what shenanigans might be embedded in the Clintoon broke to billionaire in 15 years tax papers? If the Republicans could get those to rummage through, they could find all manner of process issues. Ditto the Obamas.
Mueller has got a tiger by the tail. The Progressives demand blood. He is under direct suspicion by those who are looking over his shoulder for signs of DemonizingRat collusion and for any sign he is protecting Comey and seeking “revenge.” He has hired some lawyers who are strong DemonizingRats and Shrillary contributors. If they appear to stray from the straight and narrow, all manner of “whoop ass” is going to be unleashed. Maxine Waters and similar Progressive Neanderthals are screaming for any little process crime that would be grounds for impeachment. Guess what? Trump’s hair is grounds for impeachment if you have the power of the House and the control of the Senate and the media on your side. Right now, all you Progressives and stupid DemonizingRats have is the media all swarming like wet hornets. The House and the Senate are so far out of reach, the DemonizingRats have zero strategy for how to carry that cat by the tail. Impeachment is a DemonizingRat wet dream.
That is how it is.
ILC @ #4, [USA Today has pointed out Mueller’s conflicts of interest and called for him to step down:]
Conspiracy theory alert: Conservative Treehouse (Sundance) is of the belief that Comey needs to have Mueller fired in order for Comey to continue to control the narrative. The thinking is that Mueller will not “protect” Comey over providing an honest inquiry and letting the chips, partisan or not, fall where they may. There is plenty of attention being paid to who Mueller is bringing into his staff and where their political sentiments reside. Mueller is on a high wire and he has just one way to make it to the other side. He must be skilled and balanced.
I am intrigued by the idea that Comey is controlling the narrative. He is likely more involved in leaking than the one Columbia professor incident to which he has admitted. He doesn’t need to keep popping up in the Mueller whack-a-mole investigation and it makes sense that he would want Mueller out of the picture. If this “investigation” were to go back to Congress and partisans bickering, Comey could ride that broken mule across the finish line and probably get praise in the process. Mueller, not so much. Unless, of course, Mueller is corrupt.
Bill Otis at the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation offers this:
I love the “benign” use of the word “hope.” Otis is “hoping” that Mueller or Rosenstein will somehow “notice” 28 CFR Section 45.2. Especially after the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation straps it on a brick and hits then on the forehead with it.
If a new General Counsel is selected, it stands to reason that the DemonizingRats would demand that he/she take over the team Mueller is putting together and “hopefully” the Repugnats would demand that the new Counsel assemble his/her team from scratch.
You are really clutching your pearls at the moment.
1. There are many avenues to investigate someone’s finances, not just the IRS.
2. “All Democrats are terrorists.” Lovely rhetoric. So, if I could be bothered to line up some of the nut-job right wing aggro piled on Obama and Dems when they had power, could I go about saying “ALL Republicans are terrorists”?
3. Of course Mueller can investigate President Trump. So what you say? But wasn’t the fact that Comey said he wasn’t under investigation part of the defense folks offered here that the Comey testimony was a big fat nothing burger? Not a big deal then since he wasn’t being investigated. Not a big deal now because he is being investigated. Well? None of it is a big deal because … we say so, and Conspiracy Theory–choose 1, 2, 3, or 4, or a mix therein.
4a. Complaining about Mueller now after praising his appointment then–what changed? Oh, right, investigating the President. How apolitical of folks!
4b.Too chummy with Mueller!!! He knows Comey!!! Isn’t that going to be the case with anyone they pick with the required credentials to run this? Who would you want there doing this job? And Mueller was appointed by the Deputy Attorney General (Republican appointment) AFTER Comey was fired.
5. Thank you for the “Conspiracy Theory Alert.” There is some self-reflexivity here.
6. You take exception to my “for sure.” Fair enough. I could be completely wrong–I concede the point. That is where I put my money though–Citizen Trump had a “charitable” Foundation that was every bit as messed up as the Clintons–and MORE so. Given the business manipulation, the bankruptcies, etc, I am betting that President Trump is every bit as sloppy as Citizen Trump. And is no 12th dimensional chess player.
7. (a) “Progressives “feel” that every rich man who doesn’t pamper them is a heinous crook sucking life out of peasants for pleasure.” And (b) Conservatives “feel” that every rich man (who champions their causes) must be an amazing 12th dimensional chess player since their wealth is evidence of their superior genetic characteristics and moral fibre. (b) sounds like absolute bulls**t to me, but so does the first claim, (a).
The persistence of the Anti-Trump Derangers is a thing to behold. “OK, the last 237 attempts to destroy Trump failed… but number 238 will work for sure!”
#9, Cas, No one cares about your non issues & false narratives except the Dem Media & their radical adherents. Like you. Hillary lost. No evidence exists that indicates, shows or proves Russia determined how people vote. That’s the bottom line. Nothing you say matters & that’s what really, really gets your goat. Your lot keeps losing elections. The GOP & Trump allow your false narrative investigations for various reasons, so far. We’ll see how far they’re willing to allow Leftist stupidity.
Marxists are violent.
Hi Hanover,
If you think that all of this about showing that “Russia determined how people vote” then OK then. And as for nothing I say matters–you are absolutely right. You will believe what ever you want to believe independent of anything I say–but this I know–you would not be supporting President Obama or some other Democratic Party President with the vigor you are now if the roles were reversed in the same circumstances. So, damn straight, Hanover–nothing I say makes a bit of difference–to you.
Cas, Of course all this is about explaining to the Left why they lost their election. Anything but the truth of Hillary’s disastrous candidacy. It’s also what Dems do, to take down a GOP president. Always their historical attempts to de-legitimize a president. Except, We The People aren’t going away this time. We’re here to stay. Sorry!
Why in the h3ll why I have supported Obama & his anti-American agenda! This really gives me a chuckle. Right from the get go, people voting for him because he was black? omg It was downhill from there.
The big problem is, Obama tried to radically change America & that needed to be reversed & fixed. His gall that he thought he could just mandate this & that? Without anyone caring? Like a child making a mess in the kitchen & “wondering” why it needs to be cleaned up.
It’s about money also. The Democrat Media Complex was WRONG about Hillary. It’s why they believe they need to ramp up their liberal bias. They’re businesses. They were humiliated in the election, in their attempt to crown Corrupt Pay to Play, seizure-ridden, wandering eye, drunken Hillary.
They learned they were no longer the only game in town. This is also about them pushing the Russian collusion non-issue false narrative. Giving the drones in Congress something to do with their evidence-free investigations. Hearings & investigations in Congress aren’t necessarily indicative that there’s actually been wrong-doing.
Obama’s water under the bridge, no one wants to talk about his nightmare anymore. Not even the Libs. Nor you, I imagine.
Well, now, didn’t Cas go full metal jacket derangement syndrome and ride off in every direction at once, but nowhere in particular? This is Leftist mental apathy on display. Here is Camille Paglia:
When that is how you think, you cease to think.
Funny how Cas has absolutely nothing whatsoever, even the size of a nit on a gnat, to validate his/her if Mueller is looking at Trump’s financial dealings, that is going to open up a can of whoop ass for sure…
It would seem to me that a “can of whoop ass” ought have more credibility behind it than just Cas proclaiming it.
Let me stipulate for the record: Mueller can likely find a process crime when his team of legal beagles runs through millions of dollars of research time. That is true for Trump, Obama, the Clintoons, the Pope and Jesus Christ. (In fact, they got Him on a process crime.)
Cas has no ability to actually debate by addressing the issue intellectually. The Cas form of debate knows no bounds and wanders endlessly up hill and down dale and around and around and around.
Heliotrope – great comments! A lot to think about. Hanover, too. My own GUESS is that Mueller takes orders from a higher power who has quietly decided to go Trump-neutral (at least for now). Oh yeah, I posted that awhile back. Anyway, thanks!
As to Cas:
I honestly can’t begin to tell if that is meant for me…since I have never identified as being a conservative. Oh and also, since I have never thought or said those things.
Today’s Democrats & media remind me of nothing so much as Wile E. Coyote before he falls from the air. A group of people who lost power…and still can’t quite process it. Negative, uncertain, floundering to keep their own hopes up.
Pure delusion. I agree that no American in good standing has been more thoroughly investigated, by government agencies for decades, than Trump.
That’s the sticking point. It is “what they do”. There will always be one, somewhere. *If* they are determined to get Trump, they may even plant false evidence.
Remember when Comey prosecuted Martha Stewart for deleting ONE email, which actually she restored for him? He never did charge her with insider trading. Later, he turned a blind eye to Hillary deleting 30,000 emails and scrubbing them with BleachBit.
*If* they want to get Trump on a process crime, they will. Then it will depend on (a) how big it is, and (b) who actually gives a crap. Republicans, at least, won’t impeach a President over the moral equivalent of a traffic ticket.
Hi Heliotrope,
“But wasn’t the fact that Comey said he wasn’t under investigation part of the defense folks offered here that the Comey testimony was a big fat nothing burger? Not a big deal then since he wasn’t being investigated. Not a big deal now because he is being investigated. Well? None of it is a big deal because … we say so”
Since you can’t be bothered to read what I said, I put it here for your edification–again.
And as for “intellectual engagement”–you have a great deal of faith in President Trump’s 12 dimensional chess playing skills–just like many on the left thought the same of President Obama. Your gut tells you he must be an awesome politician because he is a successful businessman. He must be playing a deep game otherwise he looks incompetent–and that just isn’t possible. You don’t look any different to those left wing true believers in Obama’s skills, Heliotrope. Use that skepticism skill you tell others to use–some skepticism where the President is concerned would be a balancing palliative to the cheerleading you engage in.
It is to laugh.
Cas defines my “faith” in Trump for me and then rips me over the “facts” she has assigned to me.
My gut does not tell me that he is an awesome politician. My gut tells me that he is anti-politician every day and in every way. My gut tells me that he is a Make America Great Again cop with statesmanlike qualities.
Trump became a “successful businessman” in the most regulated, government oppressive, world of crooks and liars you can find. Every Jenny Wren protector, rival developer, mafia labor boss, greedy councilman, spiteful politician, jealous mogul came out of the woodwork on every venture he attempted. Yet, he beat them and built an empire. He got into the Casino business in Atlantic City and he got out through lawfully using the bankruptcy laws. Atlantic City is a dung heap today. Trump saw it coming. The only fault you can ascribe is that he decided to take the risk and it was not his best of decisions.
Trump decided to market steaks the way Ted Turner tried to market buffalo meat and both failed to make a viable market. Trump tried Trump University and it failed, but not worse than the two colleges Bernie Sander’s wife collapsed while taking huge administrative fees. Trump neckties are not the go-to brand.
He must be playing a deep game otherwise he looks incompetent–and that just isn’t possible. Silly Cas. Where has Trump shown his “incompetence” since January 20, 2017? Where did he show his incompetence winning the Republican nomination? Where did he show his incompetence beating Shrillary Clintoon? Where did he show his incompetence naming his cabinet? Where did he show his incompetence in visiting Saudi Arabia, Israel, meeting Abbas, meeting the Pope?
I find it passing strange that with so much “incompetence” swamping his every move and Maxine Waters cackling “impeachment, impeachment, impeachment” and the media just chocking on his every word that you genius Progressives can’t find anything bigger than invisible obstruction of an invisible possible, maybe impropriety to throw at him. C’mon, it is to laugh.
You don’t look any different to those left wing true believers in Obama’s skills, Heliotrope. Obama’s skills? His first skill was being a “clean, articulate, black.” His second skill was utilizing ACORN and the DemonizingRat Machine. His third skill was governing by political shadow government, executive order, bureaucratic regulatory fiat, and a compliant Harry Reid.
Obama was the consummate political boss. He was also a master at demagoguing. The “job” of the community organizer is to give voice to the selected “community” and help them fight the “power.” He played the media magnificently and together they made America a simpering babblefest of “confronting our aggressions.” Occupy Wall Street, the Gentle Giant, the adopted son Trayvon, Native Americans with butt hurt, the 1%, health care for all, the Great European and African Apology Tour, Black Lives Matter, the Arab Spring, bringing the Muslim Brotherhood into the White House, toppling Qaddafi, “tell Vlad I’ll have more latitude after the (2012) election,” the shifting red line, complacency toward and paying off Iran, jailing poor schlub for making a never seen video, and those Bible and gun clingers who hate different looking people and finally made their way to being just, plain deplorable and irredeemable.
Yeah, Obama’s skills were just what America needed. That is, if your goal is to tear America apart and down.
You Progressives really need to take a good, hard look at yourselves. Besides state imposed socialism in which the state takes what you have and divides it equally, what the HELL do you people stand for? Don’t Venezuela, Cuba, the Communist Eastern Bloc nations, pre-Deng China give you a clue? Don’t ever see that the socialist state lives large and the hoi polloi live off the leavings?
Our state of Illinois is, for all intents and purposes, bankrupt. Ditto the territory of Puerto Rico. It they could declare bankruptcy, pensions, welfare payments, assistance programs, and other state welfare entitlements would vanish overnight. It would be the warning of Margaret Thatcher writ large: the state ran out of other people’s money. Oh, the politicians would escape with golden parachutes, but the minions would be left to leech off of grass and bark like just so many North Koreans.
And you love of immigrants is really touching. Those immigrants are economic refugees from places where they had to scratch for food. They come to live in relative luxury off of welfare. Those that blend and out work the lazy native citizens rise and learn to feel disgust for the leeching crowd. But many of the immigrants have no interest in blending and they become even more tribal than when they arrived. Somehow, you Progressives refuse to address that fact. It is somehow an immoral thing for an amoral Progressive to contemplate.
Trump is steamrolling Progressives and turning them into Silly Putty and the Progressives are pissed off. But, since they have no principles or clear, stated goals, the Progressives don’t even know what they are pissed off about.
When Kathy Griffin wailed that “Trump Broke Me!” it was the height of ridiculousness. Apparently, Trump posed her with the bloody head of Trump and forced her to post it. But, no. That is not what Kathy Griffin meant. Kathy Griffin is logically saying that if Trump did not exist, the whole bloody head thing would not have happened and she would still be a lousy comedienne on CNN and it is all Trump’s fault.
Progressive “thinking” is like saying that it too cold above the tree line because there are no trees up there.
Nice work of unilaterally defining me and then attacking your definitions. A true Progressive mind at work is nothing to behold.
Cas, how do you expect Progressivism to succeed if not by overwhelming those of us who don’t buy into socialism?
You Progressives carefully divided us into clans of victims, each with an axe to grind and set yourselves up as the path to unification and the rainbow coalition of nanny state plantation care and feeding. You Progressives even reached to point of calling us “deplorable” who are “irredeemable.”
Victor Davis Hanson has looked at the Progressive created divide and he sees real trouble ahead.
Progressive broke this country. Now they are Hell bent to destroy Trump.
Since you Progressives blame the divide wholly on Trump (and the Bushes and Reagan) have you Progressives got any principled path for restoring America which you can articulate? What is your Progressive plan to bring us together? Something along the line of more multiculturalism, greater “diversity” and immigration, whether legal or not?
Since we doubled our national debt in just 8 years, is the economic engine of Progressivism to borrow our way to solvency and prosperity? Think on that. From 1789 and George Washington all the way through to the end of G.W. Bush and 2009, Obama the Magnificent was able to spend in eight years what all those other chumps took 220 years to spend which included two world wars and civil war. What a Progressive man!
So speak for the Progressive vision and tell us what we must do and how we must do it and where we will be when we have done it.
I would point out that while there are similarities between the two, there are big differences. Trump is primarily a ‘brander’—ties, steaks, vocational education [ie, Trump University]; even casinos. He doesn’t manufacture any of his products (even the winery that bears the family name is under the purview of his sons and their designates); he simply contracts with other vendors. I don’t know who the supplier was for his steak line, but it’s obvious to me that he didn’t know enough about the product to make it work.
Ted Turner, on the other hand, is the largest private landowner in the United States. He became so via his vision to return the American bison to “its rightful place” on the landscape of the interior West. One can debate about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, but at least they are self-contained on his properties (unlike the reintroduction of wolves). Because of that, he has a ready supply of product, so all he needs to do is find a market (demand). Like the now-current POTUS, he failed on a direct retail level. But after teaming up with a restaurateur who knew the business, he was able to create a demand and thus Ted’s Montana Grill was born.
Donald Trump is somewhat like General Electric under Jack Welch: he thought the value in any goods lies in his name on which he places on them. The goods themselves didn’t necessary need to be high quality or high value—just create the perception that they were. The downside to this is usually the opposite of those persons and companies who micromanage every aspect of their product: when you have little day-to-day oversight or involvement in the goods being produced, the quality and perception of value can vary widely—even so much that the product itself becomes tainted because of it. In DJT’s case, he cuts his losses and moves on to the branding of the next product. It will be better for the country if he doesn’t use this approach to government and governing, but recent apostates like Ann Coulter are beginning to think this is exactly what he is doing.
RSG, I take your point about the difference between Ted Turner’s bison and Trump’s steaks.
I have eaten in Turner’s buffalo restaurant in NYC and found it entirely wanting. A late friend of mine was also in the buffalo meat business and he hit upon a wonderful combination of cuts which went into his ground buffalo. The flavor and consistency of his product was superior to almost all of the ground buffalo I have tried.
My point is that Ted Turner has made no effort to shield his name from his product. You might likely know my late friend’s name as his source of wealth is iconic in its field. However, he kept his name and his branding name off of his buffalo for two reasons. First, he wanted it to stand entirely on its own in the market place. Secondly, his very famous brands have never been applied to anything outside of the core product line. That is both a safe and smart marketing strategy.
Both Turner and Trump have marketed their names in a branding scheme that has paid off handsomely in most cases.
I am intimately familiar with the problems with the Kluge winery and the manner in which Eric Trump bought it out of bankruptcy and made the decision to market the wine on a volume basis as well as a premium basis. Mrs. Kluge wrecked her fortune trying to outsmart the entire Virginia wine industry. Eric Trump is playing by the established methods of marketing and gaining some benefit from the Trump name. However, there are plenty of people who will pass over the wine simply because of the name on the bottle.
Trump is now facing the “defacing” of his branding. Donald Trump did not position his branding to represent cheap knock-offs. His “palaces” may be over the top for some tastes, but his market is perfectly willing to pay for the quality, service and attention to needs which his staff delivers. It is possible, of course, to find people who are dissatisfied with just about anything.
Turner’s ranching activities have provided a great deal of land “where the buffalo roam.” The whole effort began when the Yellowstone herd was badly decimated and focus was placed on it in the 1960’s. By the 1970’s, before the wold fiasco was started, the herd was on the rebound.
Whether he will be able to supply a demand is not known. Our grocery markets may have a few dozen pounds of buffalo and an endless amount of beef. To my knowledge, the buffalo eat grass and are not fattened on corn before slaughter. We consume ground buffalo out of sheer presence to all hamburger meat we have tried. But the public is not likely to “discover’ it on their own. And raising those critters is not child’s play.
Hi Heliotrope,
“Where did he show his incompetence in visiting Saudi Arabia, Israel, meeting Abbas, meeting the Pope?”
Yep–you have faith in his statesmanlike qualities–and for all the triumphs of his overseas adventures–meeting people!!!! How amazing is that!!!! What exactly are those triumphs, Heliotrope? Being in Saudi Arabla–cool, so you like the way he stoked the Qatar crisis as a piece of especial statesmanship, contradicting his Secretary of State who is busily trying to clean up his, ah, “statesmanship.” You appreciated the way that he alienated European allies because that was necessary, aiming to fragment Europe because that is definitely in America’s interests because …. um, why exactly? Who benefits from a weakened Europe–oh, that is right, Russia–who have never been a bother to us or expansionist in any way shape or form since like forever, but just big misunderstood cuddly bears… and stood up to China by challenging them how exactly ….? But the manly way he deals with North Korea–that isn’t impotency since North Korea is more complicated than “anyone could have possibly known.” And his love affair with autocrats… he loves them big strong leaders who don’t have to worry about pesky democracy norms. We can learn how a country should be run from those guys–for sure. Those folks who actually follow foreign affairs look at President Trump and his “triumphs” which you have been too shy and unassuming to mention as either qualified or unmitigated misjudgments.
Out of curiosity–what if anything would be evidence to you of incompetency on the part of our President in foreign affairs? Or are you always a glass half-full kind of guy when it comes to a man who doesn’t really appear to have much understanding of what goes on around him internationally–unless it involves his business properties or golf courses? “He is just playing possum–just you wait; move 43 on the 12th dimensional chess board is a killer… you’ll see!”
So, color me unimpressed by your unsupported claims, Heliotrope. Again, I suggest you start using that skepticism you preach others to use when it comes to your adoration of President Trump. Not one piece of evidence do you offer to support your claim that he is awesomeness personified out there amongst world leaders who owe him bupkis. Anyway, who cares if Chia displaces us as the major power in the Pacific Rim. Not that important anyway, right?
As for “skills.” You act just like those Obama true believers. And I think you are equally as wrong.
As for principled approaches–you are big into personal responsibility. I like that, so am I. You don’t like poorer folks using welfare–they don’t deserve it–even if the law allows it–you rail against that. I don’t see it that way of course, since life can deal people very different hands–and personal responsibility requires us to help the needy and those who cannot help themselves. Health insurance is one of those places we disagree on. And as for health care–you railed against the “secret process” that Democratic Party folks engaged in, and I hear not a peep out of you given an even more gross act of secrecy on behalf of those who want to dismantle it and give a lot of money back to the wealthy. Who are scared out of their minds that people will connect this action to them. And they will. The one thing I really love about the current situation is that this Republican controlled legislative branch will create the conditions so that when the Dems get back into power–and you know they will–they will put forward universal health care–extending Medicare down to whatever age you like (or don’t like). You know it. I know it. It is just a question of when. No SCOTUS challenges. Nothing anyone can do. Done, even if the insurance companies baulk–that is one reason they don’t like Republican moves–they know they are going to lose big time on this.
You find Trump as big on personal responsibility except when he can use the law to assuage his business losses–so he can get out of his personal responsibility to those who invested in his businesses or to the vendors he didn’t pay–so long suckers! It was all great right up to the moment it wasn’t. And that is OK with you. And with our President.
Cas,
A lack of “triumph” is not “incompetence.” We will all have to wait for the results of Trump’s Mid-East and Rome tour. I will take it as a “no” from you that the Trump tour featured “incompetence.”
Way back when he became the man to topple in the debates, I noticed that he “was a force to be reckoned with” and I said as much hither and yon. I paid attention to what you Progressives sneer at and call his “dog whistles.” Those statements aimed to stir the deplorables and the clingers and Bible thumpers and the trash in fly-over country who shop at War-Mart and drive pick-ups and pump septic tanks for a living. In May of 2016, I mentioned to a superstar in Presidential election analysis that I though Trump could win in a landslide. He offered “10%” as the landslide and I said “sure.” On the day after the election, I got an email from this man saying: “You were right!” It wasn’t 10% but the surprise factor was huge to the establishment elites. So that you do not misunderstand: I said Trump could win in a landslide. It was a gut feeling and my friend in the profession knew exactly what I was saying. I am in constant touch with the 90% of land area in the United States where folks are not trying to control what and how other people think. For the establishment and academia, the split is between Trotsky or Lenin. For the rest of us, the split is between a Constitutional representative republic with limited government and socialism without a basis of principle.
Am I skeptical of Trump? Of course I am. More to the point, am I, like you and your gaggle rooting for him to fail? NO. I might add that many people whom I greatly respect at GayPatriot were far from Trump fans or even voters. But they have adjusted to reality and view Trump as their president. They are not running into walls and banging their heads on the floor and throwing unending hissy-fits.
In two comments addressed to you, you utterly failed to state your principled goals for Progressivism. Progressives won’t do that because they can’t state their case without sounding like a Communist revolutionary.
You do succeed in getting under my skin when you blatantly lie using the term “our president.” That last I knew, you are a resident (you won’t admit to citizenship) of England and the time-stamps on your comments indicate a 6 hour difference. You don’t seem to appreciate the irony in saying “our president” and then bashing the man from outside of his realm.
The United States doubled its national debt in the eight years of Obama. Furthermore, Obama added the health care entitlement which will burden the debt borrowing by a factor of 20% or more. You communists can’t do the math, so that is of no concern to you. “Screw the posterity, I will get what I can and they can work out their own problems.” What a far reaching view that isn’t.
Trump has shown more guts at taking control of our national debt crisis than any president since Reagan made a half-hearted attempt.
You Europeans have got your hands full of immigrants who have come to suck off your welfare system and who, largely, remain tribal instead of assimilating. Brexit was a vote to throw off the yoke of the E.U. and sort things our for England’s benefit. But globalists hate nationalism and nationalists are “haters” and blah, blah, blah.
Trump looks at NATO and asks why the US pays the lion’s share of the costs. (Ditto U.N.) Many of us look at NATO and wonder why 70 years after the war you Europeans can’t pay for your own defense.
We pay 20% of our budget for defense. You folks all but get a free ride because the United States is your posse and protector. In terms of defense spending, England is a stark exception, but even England is largely leaning on the shoulders of the US for defense.
Europeans are seasoned at telling the US how to behave and what to do. Justin Trudeau is a Progressive effete bantam rooster to our north who just can’t keep his superiority complex under control. Maybe we should round up our illegal immigrants and send them to St.Justin of Trudeau and let them work things out. They have beaucoup “wide open spaces” where lots and lots of economic refugees could be piled up and fed and care for and worshiped for their friggin’ diversity. Whatever that means.
We listen to a lot of people like you tell us what we can’t do, must do and shouldn’t have done.
Trump farts in your face and grins. You hate that. Well, roaches live behind the refrigerator because they like the warmth and can’t stand the light.
I will say to you what I have said all along: Trump is a force to be reckoned with. If you Obama sycophants suffering separation pains and anxiety would just calm down, Trump has just four years and then the possibility of four more years. You can get Michelle or pull Bernie out of the taxidermy shop or find a raging socialist to overthrow Trump in 2020. Or you can wait for 2024 and run Chelsea or Kathy Griffin or a real establishment political insider and money man like Terry McAuliffe.
Your language about my “faith” in Trump, “He is just playing possum–just you wait; move 43 on the 12th dimensional chess board is a killer… you’ll see!”, “You appreciated the way that he alienated European allies…”, “your claim that he is awesomeness personified out there amongst world leaders who owe him bupkis….”, is your language, your coloring of me to suit your needs, your little panic voice speaking. Not mine.
I am fascinated by Trump. I don’t think he is “riding for a fall” but I would not be surprised if he takes a spill. He is an all guts, all-out trophy seeker.
If you want to babble at Trump-a-holics, you are in the wrong place. But you just want to babble, so this place is as good as any. And I take the time to pull your finger and you blow every time. It really would be interesting if just once you offered an honest debate. But you can’t get over yourself even in the foreplay. Look at how you frame this:
Am I supposed to “defend myself” against the way you choose to color me? Really? Really?
Dismantling Obamacare is a “gross act of secrecy”…. ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee, hah, hah, hah, bwaaaaaaaah HAH!
You had your Obamessiah and he turned out to be an establishment politician. Now you chide The Donald for not being the Trumpmessiah because he used the laws to his advantage and “little” people “suffered.” Trump writes big boy contracts. Subcontractors and supplies bid to work for him. He is too big to sue so if you grab one of those Trump brass rings, you had jolly well better deliver. That is how grown-ups operate. In part you justify welfare because it is there for the taking because of the law and then you scorn Trump because he uses bankruptcy laws which are there for the leaving. I get it, the big guy can “afford” to lose, the little guy is pathetic.
Get over yourself, Cas. Redirecting the discussion and ignoring the topic and picking at nits is all very well for an unending babblefest, but it look really, really lame in print.
Hi Heliotrope,
The only thing that gets under your skin is the fact that I get under your skin! And I manage to do that because a. I am utterly unimpressed by the little tricks you use with folks here to get away from things you feel uncomfortable with, and b. because I call BullS**t on the unsubstantiated claims that you make.
Let me give you an example: I talk about the obvious secrecy with which the ACA is going to be dismantled and your inability to even acknowledge it as worse than the what was done in building the ACA, and you give me this:
“Dismantling Obamacare is a “gross act of secrecy”…. ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee, hah, hah, hah, bwaaaaaaaah HAH!”
The only thing missing from this childishness is your fart sounds. But maybe I couldn’t hear them! So, we are both agreed that you can’t answer the charge because you know I am right about that, sunshine of my heart. 🙂
As for this drivel: “… Now you chide The Donald for not being the Trumpmessiah because he used the laws to his advantage and “little” people “suffered.” Trump writes big boy contracts. Subcontractors and supplies bid to work for him. He is too big to sue so if you grab one of those Trump brass rings, you had jolly well better deliver. That is how grown-ups operate. …” Yes–dishonest grown-ups! And more to the point, you absolve him because people working in his name–and let us face this squarely–DT himself–wanted things and didn’t pay for them. It is one of the lovely things about corporations that the person who runs it can hide behind it when things go bad. Unfortunately, poorer folks don’t get to do that–as yet. They just get f*ked. And you are all right with that. You hide behind the laws aslong as they support your desires–but when they don’t, little people get dumped on. Boo-hoo.
Yes–of course I am being contradictory. I am using YOUR argument, Heliotrope. Sure I could look for nuance and distinction, but you don’t give a crap about those–you have views that won’t change–no matter what evidence to the contrary–and because you would rather pull fingers than actually engage deeply about things. Our difference is that you can’t acknowledge the obvious about DT’s welfare teat sucking because your argument of self-made men being men and doing it on their own, and personal responsibility, etc, etc is just a convenient mythology to hide the unwarranted advantages that the rich have.
“In part you justify welfare because it is there for the taking because of the law and then you scorn Trump because he uses bankruptcy laws which are there for the leaving. I get it, the big guy can “afford” to lose, the little guy is pathetic.”
Absof**kinglutely–Heliotrope. You have this pretty traditional conservative world-view that rails against socialism. The sad thing is you don’t mind some of socialism’s benefits or arguments–socialize losses and protect people from bad things–as long as those people are rich! You just don’t want that to be spread to “the riffraff.” The same riffraff you wouldn’t mind seeing forcefully eliminated–a la George Bernard Shaw.
Oh, on this beauty! “Am I skeptical of Trump? Of course I am.”
Oh put-leese. Look at your reply–all about effete bantam roosters, etc. I gave you examples–“my language, not yours,” you say. Very true. So, where is your language? Where is your take on what have been damaging foreign adventures of the dear President? You don’t have any.
You hide behind your–“let us wait and see” what the President does. And this is why I know you are evasive and uncomfortable (apart from lacking any evidence to support your position)–if this had been a Democratic President, you would be crucifying him or her for his or her slipshod diplomacy. You know it AND I know it. And the kicker–you would be right to do so! You won’t admit it–I have no idea why. Maybe you have built a box of hope so strong that nothing contrary to your faith–and I do mean FAITH gets through it. I asked you if there was anything that you would take as evidence that our President is screwing things up internationally, and you want to pull my finger–how delightfully sweet and playful of you! 🙂
And as for: “But they have adjusted to reality and view Trump as their president. They are not running into walls and banging their heads on the floor and throwing unending hissy-fits.” That is all you and a lot of commentators here ever did when Obama was President–no adjustment–just flat out “hissy fitting.” Sure, in your view, he deserved very bit of it, and I get that–but then you are shocked, shocked!!! that others feel exactly the same way about this President. The sad thing is that they have good reasons for doing so. Russia? Good god, man.
And if you want a principled path–go back and read what I said about personal responsibility. and some support when things go bad for people, outside their control. That will do as a start.
I’m sorry for you Cas. I really am. You have a visceral hatred for “your lot in life” and you can’t pull yourself out of it.
This business of why I don’t hate Trump like you hate Trump is over. Trump is no saint. Trump eats his steak cooked board stiff. Trump is flashy and lacks humility. But, We the People elected him and, so far, I am thrilled which his agenda and his successes.
If he cuts my welfare, I won’t miss it. I build a retirement on my own and I still earn plenty after 20 years of “retirement.” You might hate me for that, because what I do is paid by people who want my opinions and advice. I am sure you would like the same opportunity.
The ACA is a ticking time bomb. It was written by Robert Kreamer to wreck itself and leave the nation with government run and paid health care as the only option. It was a sleazy take over of a huge portion of the economy done by total trickery. And you want to whine about Trump bringing it to a halt? Sorry, but that dog not only won’t hunt, it is a dead dog.
Why do you suppose that the recidivism rate among the class of people who work their way into jail so often is so high? You have it worse in England than we do in the United States. Why are the usual suspects forever being caught doing the same old, same old? Because their level of leeching is unsophisticated and motivated by opportunity and amorality. The next rung up on that ladder are the permanent welfare dwellers. The ones who could stock grocery stores, but won’t. They won’t, because they calculate their benefits and they find themselves moving “backward” if they take the job. And by not risking their welfare charity, they miss the chance to do well in a job and move up the pay scale. It is a tiresome, sad story.
I work with non-aggressive male drunks as a community project. At least they know why they are the way they are. Our little “charity” gives them a clean place to sleep and washes them and their clothes and feeds them properly. Then they wander out to go on a binge and the cops deliver them back to us and we do it all over again. We aren’t saints. We are keeping them out of the libraries, emergency rooms, back seats of unlocked cars, etc. The cops are their taxi, we are their “safe place” and society doesn’t have to step around them. So, please, don’t tell me about people who got dealt a bad hand. You deal your own damned cards until you give up and play the game of misery and dependence.
I’m done. You want me to turn on Trump and I have no reason to do so. I want the wall. I want ACA destroyed and buried. I want illegal immigrants stopped at the borders. I want America to get out of the service economy (that is where I work) as the major jobs area and return to producing goods at least half of the GNP. I want a highly simplified tax plan which crushes crony capitalism. I want the welfare class examined for true need. I want the states to be able to be a liberal and progressive as they like. I want a strong defense and I want to root out the gangs and the anarchists and the radicals who would change our nearly 250 years of a working constitutional republic.
You want to be a voice of reason for socialism without every being a voice of reason for socialism. It doesn’t work that way.
It is to laugh. You never give facts to the contrary. You have no principled foundation to your whining. You can not articulate your stands. And in classical debate, the foundational principle is the agreement to disagree.
You Progressives attack us deplorables for our souls and inability to tax and spend based on feelings and some amorphous concoction of “social justice.” We classical liberals ask for the compelling state interest involved and you Progressives go all bananas and self-righteous.
What is there more to say? You have you triggers for hissy-fits and your definition of state imposed decency and obligation and I laugh at it. Not a very good match, I would say.
“I’m done. You want me to turn on Trump and I have no reason to do so. I want the wall. I want ACA destroyed and buried. I want illegal immigrants stopped at the borders. I want America to get out of the service economy (that is where I work) as the major jobs area and return to producing goods at least half of the GNP. I want a highly simplified tax plan which crushes crony capitalism. I want the welfare class examined for true need. I want the states to be able to be a liberal and progressive as they like. I want a strong defense and I want to root out the gangs and the anarchists and the radicals who would change our nearly 250 years of a working constitutional republic.”
And I want world peace. Frankly, I couldn’t give a rat’s behind about whether you support Trump or not or whether you want to keep on doing so. What I care about is to hold you accountable to this claim of your that you are skeptical of Trump in any concrete fashion–you provide NO evidence. Name me ONE thing you are skeptical concerning Trump on the international front? I have asked repeatedly, and you offer–nothing. And we both know you would have crucified a Democratic President if they had done as Trump has done. How is that evidence of skepticism? Yeah–I am skeptical about your claims, my socialist friend.
1. ACA buried and replaced with something that will bring about the thing you don’t want in the long run–universal single payer healthcare.
2. A return to manufacturing that will turn back the tide, just as King Canute wanted–not happening. You have to be aware of that truth of economic growth! Like the return of coal! Bring that back while you are at it. What an awesome idea!!!!
3. You want stopped illegal immigrants–Saint Reagan created the incentive mess when he had that first amnesty. You think that will happen now that corporations are addicted to that cheap labour–good luck to you–you support a President and Party that will give those corporations what they want. Trump won’t get rid of Crony Capitalism–he is a beneficiary of it. Sad.
4. You want to search out and liquidate the “enemies of the state.” Yes–small government man–government force will make things right. Its the right kind of force–so that is OK!
You can’t acknowledge the contradictions of your own beliefs, Heliotrope. I like the fact that you help people–that is a good thing. And that is why I get under your skin–you can’t help but know that I am right about your contradictions–Welfare for the rich but not for the poor. I don’t think you are deplorable–that is your schtick–you think those who disagree with you are deplorable. Socialism is OK–as long as it is for people you support, sport.
Here is another principle I support–freedom and life. The abomination of the AHCA that you will support in its secrecy is against freedom and life–it will cause more death; it will ensure less freedom–less freedom from fear, freedom from pain, freedom to search new avenues for work and risk. There will be more suffering and death than now; more enslavement to crony capitalism. And you support that AHCA monstrosity being cobbled together in the Frankenstein lab of the Republican SECRET Senate Group of 13. So, continue to color me unimpressed with your “words of wisdom,” Heliotrope.
I am not sure he should have caved so much on NATO. I think we should get out of it. People like you all over Europe hate us. Fine by me. Run your own countries or union, but stop leeching off of us.
Single payer health care is not the one and only way to have “universal health care.” You may think so, but you are wrong.
A return to manufacturing provides jobs for those who can be trained. Why does BMW make cars in the US that are solely for the European market? We have a huge manufacturing base. There is, however, no reason for Nabisco brands to make their products in Mexico. Nor is there a reason to make them in the US using illegal immigrants.
Our corporations are NOT addicted to illegal immigrant labor. Our old system of green cards worked darned well for migrant labor. Crony Capitalism is a nightmare. Trump is addressing it by slashing regulations and the permanent bureaucracy. Saying it must vanish is a false premise. But largely gutting it would be a great help.
People leeching off the state are the enemies of limited government. “Thirteen previously exempted Alabama counties saw an 85 percent drop in food stamp participation after work requirements were put in place …” There is more than one way to skin a cat.
The only way you “get under my skin” is by claiming “our president.” I loathe liars. Otherwise, you are a rather disconnected sort of socialist elitist I meet with regularity.
The salmagundi about health care is too weak and too emotionally disjointed to address. Your have reduced yourself to a puddle of tears and I find no access to your emotional disintegration.
In the United States, there is absolutely no reason why one state can not become Californicated liberal beyond imagination. All they have to do is pay for it. It their tax base leaves them, that make their job harder. If people flock to them for the free goodies, that makes their job harder. But the states are the labs to work things out. I am all for California splitting into a state of LA LA Land socialism and another state of balanced possibilities. There difference between the two states would be the cost of taxes.
Strangely, in areas that are most liberal, housing is through-the-roof unaffordable for the low income worker which drives the “poor” into public housing or far out in the boonies. Meanwhile, the “employed” get paid huge amounts to offset the “cost of sevices.” What a moronic plan. But that is how limousine liberals who congregate design things. Service industries in particular are terrific at screwing the little guy. Think silicone valley.
Adam Smith is not an easy read, but The Theory of Moral Sentiments is profoundly important and might open your mind a crack to how a society can be beneficent without the socialist dictatorship claptrap. [You can download Eamonn Butler’s Condensed Wealth of Nations, which includes a section on The Theory of Moral Sentiments from the link.]
Karl Denninger provides an alternative health care set of ideas which at least demonstrate how to attack the “problem” from a different perspective.
I don’t care to debate it because I am not necessarily either a proponent of it or opposed to it. There are many good plans out there and plenty of room for actuaries and advocates and professionals to hammer out the workable best.
If one were to combine aspects of this plan with health savings accounts (a sop to the socialists) a great many of the issues that set socialists to weeping and wailing would be taken care of.
Hi Heliotrope,
It is nice to see you provide some meat to your claims, though sometimes you fall into bad habits. Let us take these one at a time:
1. NATO–your choice, I think you are wrong. I think you assume that Russia is not an expansionist threat. We will see; I think history is on my side. If Russia expands westward (more of Ukraine and/or Georgia, some Belarus, or the Baltic States), would you re-consider your position?
2. Single Payer HealthCare. (I realize you will ignore this, but just think of it as me giving it a once over and thinking allowed–thanks for the link). I read the Denninger piece. What a fascinating read. I LOVE the desire to make health costs transparent–I agree with him on that. I am skeptical of the “true insurance” angle simply because he offers no direct evidence (to be fair, the MFN prescription idea is very neat) as to cost savings through draining anti-competitive practices–just the hope that it will do so. I would want some actual evidence on non-prescription costs. The personal responsibility aspects are good as well–the one caveat–genetically disposed individuals who won’t be able to make the cut-offs like others do. There is a case to make that “lifestyle choices” are a bit tricky here. And there is a danger that if this is not clearly outlined, people are going to get hammered for “lifestyle choices” like being a risk taker; e.g., bungee jumpers or mountain climbers will face serious premia differentials. As for paying at the end of life, rather than out of current income, this has the potential to act as an alternative to the estate tax in many cases. This could be extended to long term care for the elderly as well… (Australia has a similar system for the care of the elderly. This does leave incentives for people to want to say goodbye to relatives “earlier than otherwise,” given that the biggest chunk of medical bills are incurred in the final year of life. I could see issues with people trying to rort the system, but it would depend on the details. As for not having a single payer system–sure–Germany has multiple payers, but regulated by the government. As for here, given the abomination that is now being cooked up in the Senate, the backlash will be a single payer system based around extending Medicare–that will be the path of least resistance. Even if they did so, there would be no extent problem with putting Denninger’s other proposals into operation. A salma… a salma…a salmagundi… how lovely. I get to point out that the “dogs breakfast” of your replies has too often been “too weak and too emotionally disjointed to address. Your have reduced yourself to a puddle of tears and I find no access to your emotional disintegration.” This has been a lot more coherent for me to work with! Thank you. The only question I have for you on this–what say you about the mess brewing in repealing ACA? You think you will get something better? I doubt it.
Manufacturing Jobs: I don’t agree with you. Sure, some industries can be resurgent here especially as transportation costs go up, but on the whole, without the free movement of labour, labour price differentials will send industries overseas that can go, especially given the free movement of capital. Historically and frequently–in economic growth terms–we have seen the evolution from primary to secondary to tertiary industries. I don’t see the US becoming a manufacturing powerhouse increasing it share as a % of GDP anytime soon, do you? Would a better distinction be between lower skilled and highly skilled jobs?
States: The Kansas experiment failed. The California experiment goes on–it will have challenges, but the fact that CA uses those taxes you dislike to invest in people and infrastructure is one reason why it has done better than Kansas (vive la mobilité sociale!!!).You can tax too much for sure, but you can also tax too little.
Housing: Would you grant the possibility that there are lots of poor people in cities, and given the shortage of living spaces and the density of people, you can explain this difference through simple S & D? Oh, and cities tend to be liberal…
Corporations: Are addicted to cheap non-legal immigrant labour.
Lying: You need to clear your mind. You draw inferences on where I live from timestamps. Have you ever considered that either a. they might be off, or b. you drew an incorrect inference from your observations, sweetheart. I can tell you for a fact that I do not live in Europe or Merry Old England or UK. So, what now?–accusing someone of lying when you don’t have your facts straight (based on a faulty inference I might add) is a poor show indeed, Heliotrope. I have plenty of skin in this game, my lovely.
Adam Smith: Funny you should mention TMS! We get corrupted by the wealthy and their shenanigans–virtue & wisdom OR wealth and status. Where is DT, our President? You are firmly on the side of acquiring wealth and status as evidence for virtue and wisdom. I don’t think Adam Smith supports your views in terms of the President’s impact on the moral fibre of this country or on the assumptions undermining your support for DT. If you want to discuss and debate TMS let us go for it, my scrumptious one. Its been a while, but a lusty discussion to get the juices roiling, might be just the thinG! 🙂
Well, Cas! Too little, too late, you pathological liar. No way are you going to hijack a thread for your endless shift and babble habits of attention preening.
Hi Heliotrope,
“Too little, too late, you pathological liar. No way are you going to hijack a thread for your endless shift and babble habits of attention preening.”
Dang but you have lost it. Don’t you notice that you and I are the only people on this thread? And pathology? Hmmm, I guess that is the defense of the embarrassed…
And that you didn’t answer the points I raised–in response to the points that you raised. Rudeness definitely becomes you, my friend.