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How many New Yorkers salivate over Trump assassination? This many

Laura Loomer and Jack Posobiec disrupt a performance of that Julius Caesar we’ve been talking about:

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It’s inspiring – Jack gets out the words “The blood of Steve Scalise is on your hands!” – but what struck me was, the packed house. Does Shakespeare in the Park draw that kind of crowd, normally?

Laura was arrested; you can help her defense fund at freelaura.com (scroll down).

She discusses it all at length with Stefan Molyneux. After seeing it in person, she agrees with his suggestion that the staging is intentional, graphic, bloody “assassination-orgy porn” recalling ISIS tactics. (So much for any comparisons to that 2012 production in which an Obama-like Julius Caesar was handled with dignity.)

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  1. You can’t judge an entire production unless you stay for the whole performance.

    After seeing it in person, she agrees with his suggestion that the staging is intentional, graphically-bloody “assassination-orgy porn” recalling ISIS tactics.

    “It” meaning the assassination scene void of the context of the entire show.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 1:05 am - June 18, 2017

  2. And so the minimizations and deflections commence.

    CCP: You can’t judge her interpretation of the production unless you’ve seen her entire interview with Molyneux.

    P.S. Much of the theater company’s money comes from taxpayers. Sick!

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — June 18, 2017 @ 1:09 am - June 18, 2017

  3. You can’t judge her interpretation of the production unless you’ve seen her entire interview with Molyneux.

    I watched it. She admitted to seeing half the play. She acknowledged that there were people present with their own interpretations of the play, which may or may not have been misguided. She wouldn’t know, because she didn’t watch the whole production.

    She is all about the assassination scene and the effect it had on some of the audience (who may have not even watched the performance themselves). This is not about the actual production. Again, the assassination happens within the context of an entire production. If you haven’t seen the entire production, you cannot say with full confidence what the director was trying to communicate.

    For all we know, the production could be a criticism of the left and the bloodlust that exists towards Trump. A review from Variety, a major publication.

    Anyone who reads the plays knows Shakespeare’s main message is that no matter how much you want to get rid of your current political leader, don’t kill him.

    In most Shakespeare productions in park, mob scenes have to be taken on faith, with the same handful of actors scurrying about trying to look like legions. But this surging Roman mob has real numbers, and its fickle allegiances to one demagogic political figure after another makes it genuinely frightening.

    The most dangerous villain in the piece, though, is the rampaging Roman mob, its allegiances flapping like a weathervane, its hatreds quickly stoked, its rages easily redirected to perceived enemies. Although no one among the rabble actually chants “Lock her up!” or “Trump that b—!” or “Kick him out!,” the echo of mobs past hangs in the air.

    I’m not sure how much clearer I can be.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 2:20 am - June 18, 2017

  4. Also, as someone who has appeared on stage as an actor in a play over one hundred times, I would be disturbed by an audience member disrupting the performance and the hard work that me and my castmembers have put into developing our characters and memorising our lines.

    It’s bizarre.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 2:28 am - June 18, 2017

  5. She is all about the assassination scene and the effect it had on some of the audience (who may have not even watched the performance themselves).

    She mentioned there were ANTIFA there. Were they watching? Were they just watching the assassination scene? Were they protesting? Both?

    Again, the actual production and POV of the director is being conflated with the reaction of a cross-section of the audience and others “present” (who get off on the actual assassination scene, quite possibly–and ironically–misinterpreting its meaning).

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 2:44 am - June 18, 2017

  6. Side-note: I’d also like to add I think that Jack Posobiec is so attractive. I watched a video of his about a month ago where he said he was straight. Sad!

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 2:47 am - June 18, 2017

  7. Also, when I was active on my blog, I, as well as a contributing write wrote over 75 theatre reviews. I sat through a lot of sh!t. But, I would never dare review a production or pass judgment unless I saw the whole thing.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 3:14 am - June 18, 2017

  8. Important stuff first…

    I’d also like to add I think that Jack Posobiec is so attractive.

    He is indeed; I think he’s positively dreamy. He also has a great personality, which makes him even more attractive. I wasn’t aware of his declaration of affectional preference, but I was aware of who his main squeeze is, it’s a Twitter user who goes by ‘Lady Godiva’; I don’t remember what her ID is, but she appears in Jack’s feed quite a bit. She was his date to the Deploraball and has appeared in a few Periscope feeds (as has his mother).

    Comment by RSG — June 18, 2017 @ 3:25 am - June 18, 2017

  9. If you haven’t seen the entire production, you cannot say with full confidence what the director was trying to communicate.

    Excuse me, but this is Julius Caesar by the bard, William Shakespeare, is it not?

    What in the name of the long history of Shakespearean theater is there that calls for a mere pimple of a director that needs his/her finesse to friggin’ communicate what the bard meant?

    CrayCray hoists himself on his own petard. If the friggin’ director is trying to communicate something by casting Julius Caesar as Donald Trump, the poor dead bard has been used and abused as a prop for political propaganda purposes that is about as subtle as the neck on a giraffe.

    I suggest that the exact same company alternate the performances with “straight” I>Julius Caesar one night and the Trump version the next night and we sit back and count the audience attendance. This director is trying to I>communicate a prurient version meant to feed the beast of political hatred.

    To try to elevate this carbuncle on the nose of honest Shakespeare is as useless as tying yourself into a pretzel bow claiming that the Piss Christ is an iconic religious statement of faith and Christian piety.

    Oh, the shock of some Neanderthal conservative whackos rushing the stage like Charles Murray or Ayaan Hirsi Ali is trying to speak. Don’t the deplorables understand that interrupting and preventing is purely a Progressive right!

    Red dog came onto the playground and locked onto a mutt in heat. The principal tried to knock red dog off with a broom … to no avail. Little Willie said “give me the broom, I’ll stop red dog.” He shoved the handle of the broom up under red dog’s tail and red dog lit out yelping. The principle asked Willie how he knew to do that. Willie said: “You just gotta know old red dog. He can give it, but he can’t take it.”

    So that is the way it is. Progressives get to censor, scream, investigate, go hysterical; non-Progressives must not annoy Progressives. Or else …..

    Comment by Heliotrope — June 18, 2017 @ 5:17 am - June 18, 2017

  10. I’ve been watching YouTube-clips of Frank Underwood’s 4th-wall asides. …Jack Posobiec may be cute, but he’s a dumb as a sack of nails.

    Standing amongst the groundlings and shouting at the stage isn’t going to accomplish much. Dear Leader and his adherents need to shut-up, stop tweeting, cease attacking Mueller and do some serious binge-watching of HBO House of Cards and the original BBC original series. Have Jared and Ivanka take copious notes…the anti-Trumpers and the Deep State partisans will inevitably over-play their hand in the court of public opinion if just left alone.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — June 18, 2017 @ 6:32 am - June 18, 2017

  11. Cray, while I agree with you in principle, I must say that while it it rude for any audience member to disrupt a play, it is also rude for the players themselves to lecture a member of the audience, referring, of course, to the lecture the production staff and cast of Hamilton gave VP-elect Pence.

    For the producers of this production to call the two protestors “paid” is, of course, laughable. If someone were paying protesters for this, there would have been a lot more than two.

    Comment by Craig Smith — June 18, 2017 @ 7:30 am - June 18, 2017

  12. it is also rude for the players themselves to lecture a member of the audience

    I agree with you. The cast of Hamilton was out of line. V.P. Pence was sold a ticket. He had every right to attend as a patron and should have never been singled out like that. It was uncalled for. And I disagreed with this when it happened.

    For the producers of this production to call the two protestors “paid” is, of course, laughable.

    I didn’t know about this. But, it’s also outside the realm of what I was discussing.

    My main points (which were lost on Helio in his response) were:

    1) I do not believe and will never believe in passing judgment on any play, film, series, etc, without actually having seen it. The last time I did it was in 2003 with The Last Temptation of Christ, and I have a matured a great deal since then, and will never make the same mistake.

    2) Laura Loomer, myself, and every writer/moderator, and commenter here at GP–to my knowledge–has not seen the entire production.

    3) Based on the Variety review alone, I believe there is possibly more to this production then meets the eye. I cannot say with certainty that this entire production was intended to tap into and encourage the blood-lust for President Trump to die. What I can say is that unless the Variety critic completely misread the production, they’re suggesting this production was objectively examining that blood-lust and its ramifications.

    NY Times review:

    This puts the moral burden where I imagine Mr. Eustis wants it: on the audience. We are asked to consider how far citizens may go in removing a destructive leader, and we are warned about unforeseen consequences.

    4) And I never argued that the director wasn’t fully aware that casting Trump as Caesar wasn’t going to attract attention. What I argued was the greater point he could have been trying to make while attracting that built-in audience (i.e. using the zeitgeist to make observations).

    If Helio would like to engage these four points, he is more than welcome. But, based on the fact that he brings up P!ss Christ AGAIN (while still not addressing my question if he would still feel the same way about it if it was P!ss Mohammad), he seems to be hell-bent on steering away from any objectivity in artistic review.

    I’d also like to thank Ted B. for bringing me back to earth.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 8:37 am - June 18, 2017

  13. I have long believed that you don’t have the right to crash someone else’s party. This is true if you are akin to the Westboro Theatre Troupe [to borrow a phrase from V the K], or a petulant angry queer who deigns to invade and interrupt someone’s worship service. To that end, I’m with the majority of conservative Twitter who feels that this cunning stunt was ill-informed and ill-advised. As a younger tweep said, “Either you believe in free speech for everyone or you don’t.” But you don’t get to claim that free speech is only okay if you agree with the message, as that makes you just as much as a snowflake as many of the people you criticize.

    I would be disturbed by an audience member disrupting the performance and the hard work that me and my castmembers have put into developing our characters and memorising our lines.

    Indeed. Any interruption shows a profound lack of respect for the people who may not agree with the message but are pledged to uphold it for the duration of the performance run. (Though I would be shocked if any of the performers weren’t also of a similar mindset as the director.) I just think it’s rude and in bad form and doesn’t endear your message to any of the rest of the audience. [Ditto for the inverse, where the actors hector certain members of the audience, as Craig notes with Hamilton.]

    As for the “legal defense fund”…oh please. This is a crime with a maximum of a $1000 fine. It’s not like she faces going to the gulag for 20 years (or risks suffering neurological damage in prison which puts her in a coma). I’m not sure where the biggest drama was Friday night—on stage or in the audience.

    So I’m in agreement with both CCP & Ted. I think on a once-popular game show we would now hear the phrase “Circle gets the square!”

    Comment by RSG — June 18, 2017 @ 8:40 am - June 18, 2017

  14. We live in a world where the Left graphically celebrates violence attacking central elements of our civic culture.

    I write a post, showing someone’s real-time video of it (and their protest).

    And all you can do, CCP, is spin and deflect and defend. That’s sickening. As sick and disgusting as the production itself.

    For all we know, the production could be a criticism of the left and the bloodlust that exists towards Trump.

    Because that packs the house, in New York. And I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell. Up next: Someone’s mom gets raped, they post about it, and all CCP can do is ask what she was wearing and whether she invited it. “For all we know, she could have experienced orgasm during it, as some women do. You can’t know, without being there and seeing it from start to finish, what the rapist was trying to communicate.”

    I’m not sure how much clearer I can be.

    as someone who has appeared on stage as an actor…I would be disturbed by an audience member disrupting the performance

    Oh, poor baby. But if #BLM or Act Up or an anti-Catholic Catholic were doing it, you’d be telling us how it’s art in its own right and the protestors’ rightful contribution to the performance in social context and we have to look at their stated intentions and credit what they say.

    And yet again, you hijack a thread by posting the majority of the comments (by yourself) and drifting, slowly but surely, to making it about you. I know I’m not the only one to see through all this.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — June 18, 2017 @ 8:50 am - June 18, 2017

  15. […] Gay Patriot wonders how many New Yorkers salivate for Trump’s assassination […]

    Pingback by Sorta Blogless Sunday Pinup » Pirate's Cove — June 18, 2017 @ 9:03 am - June 18, 2017

  16. I have long believed that you don’t have the right to crash someone else’s party.

    On private property – like a home or church or a private business – Or on privately-funded time, like a paid rally or party in a public space – No, you don’t.

    But in a public space AND on taxpayer-funded time – Why not? It’s just your contribution to the performance, as a fellow taxpayer.

    “Either you believe in free speech for everyone or you don’t.”

    Since when does free speech not include the audience’s (and/or target’s) right to protest?

    Laura and Jack did not heckle the performance more than a moment. By leaving peacefully and quickly, they acknowledged the performers’ right to continue – and the audience’s right to see the rest. There was no “protestor’s veto”, here. Much more proper and civil than what some lefties would have done.

    Any interruption shows a profound lack of respect for the people…

    …who may well have earned that disrespect.

    As for the “legal defense fund”…oh please.

    Then don’t contribute your $5 or $1. I posted the link only as an option for those inclined.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — June 18, 2017 @ 9:07 am - June 18, 2017

  17. And all you can do, CCP, is spin and deflect and defend. That’s sickening. As sick and disgusting as the production itself.

    I don’t what to say to this other than reemphasise that I do believe in passing judgment on a play, film, etc, that one hasn’t watched entirely themselves. That’s being objective and fair, not as sick and disgusting as encouraging the assassination of a president (your interpretation of the “production” you haven’t seen).

    Someone’s mom gets raped

    This is confusing. I’m not sure how a play production (especially one that sounds like it’s being misinterpreted) relates to a real life act of violence.

    And I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell.

    You remain convinced of what the director’s intent was 1) Having not seen the production yourself, 2) posted and supported the viewpoint of someone who had also not seen the entire production, and 3) ignored two reviews from major publications which seem to contradict this.

    But if #BLM or Act Up or an anti-Catholic Catholic were doing it, you’d be telling us how it’s art in its own right and the protestors’ rightful contribution to the performance in social context and we have to look at their stated intentions and credit what they say.

    This is confusing. I would not support anyone disrupting any play production that was going on. Most people in theatre work for nothing (I worked in theatre at the college, community, and semi-professional level). There is a lot of hard work done by playwrights, directors, producers, techies, and actors. For someone (anyone) to disrupt a play (regardless of the content, POV, etc), is wrong. Can you please justify your accusation that I would support this, because I don’t.

    And yet again, you hijack

    I shared personal experience as an actor and budding theatre critic that I found relevant. You wrote a post where I applied my experience to my rationale.

    …who may well have earned that disrespect.

    If true, this would be based on the premise that you personally know what is in the heart and mind of a director whose production you haven’t seen it, that the director staged this production exclusively to feed into the bloodlust for Trump and encourage his assassination (speaking of a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell), and every actor willfully signed on to support this vision.

    I would really like to hear your thoughts on the Variety and NY Times reviews.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 9:37 am - June 18, 2017

  18. *first sentence: “do” should be “don’t”

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 9:39 am - June 18, 2017

  19. Is there something me, right does it seem like there are people more wee weed up about a play being interrupted than about actual acts of political violence committed by the left?

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 9:42 am - June 18, 2017

  20. As to this:

    This puts the moral burden where I imagine Mr. Eustis wants it: on the audience. We are asked to consider how far citizens may go in removing a destructive leader, and we are warned about unforeseen consequences.

    It’s just a highbrow version of the standard leftie tactic, “When we do it, it’s OK – it’s only a joke – or education – it’s good for you – nod nod wink wink. Up next, we’ll show you some artworks normalizing incest or pedophilia.”

    It’s a tactic of counting on decent people to be stupid, or at least to be willing to be lectured to – by the New York Times.

    What’s hiding in plain sight is: Leftie artists seeking to normalize graphic, depraved political violence and to flash images of it into the public culture / into people’s minds, for the unspoken purpose of encouraging said violence.

    And it’s something they would never, neeeeeeeevvvvvvver do under a Democrat president. Again: the 2012 production that they keep bringing up, as a ludicrous self-defense, wasn’t one-quarter as graphic; the Obama stand-in was handled with dignity.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — June 18, 2017 @ 9:44 am - June 18, 2017

  21. Is it just me or does it seem like there are people more wee weed up about a play being interrupted than about actual acts of political violence committed by the left?

    Previous attempt mangled by auto cucumber

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 9:44 am - June 18, 2017

  22. Is there something me, right does it seem like there are people more wee weed up about a play being interrupted than about actual acts of political violence committed by the left?

    It appears that the play this post is about may be misinterpreted by people who haven’t seen it to shoehorn it into the Leftist Derangement and Violence Narrative. I don’t dispute that narrative exists, but this doesn’t seem to be an example of it. In fact, it may be an examination of it.

    What it sounds like possibly (to me), though I can’t say with full confidence (though two major theatre reviews seem to support this), that the director is capitalising off of the current anti-Trump sentiment in a liberal mecca while trying to extract greater truths (i.e. examining the bloodlust a lot of anti-Trumpers feel by presenting it to them or “satisfying” them and then showing them the dire consequences of the actions of those feelings).

    People on the left (liberals in the audience) and right (Loomer and Co.) seem to have lost the plot, so to speak.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 9:52 am - June 18, 2017

  23. To the Constantly Confused Progressive : “The lady doth protest too much, methinks”

    They should have just thrown bike locks onto the stage and walked away.

    The Constantly Confused Progressive laments that one should not critique or praise a performance they have not seen in its entirety, yet the Constantly Confused Progressive does just the opposite. The thinly veiled excerpts from “reviewers” who praise the production aren’t fooling anyone but the Constantly Confused Progressive.

    If the Constantly Confused Progressive was really a true artist, the Constantly Confused Progressive would put on a production of Mohammad similar to the video that Mrs. Clinton said caused the attack at Benghazi. Of course, the Constantly Confused Progressive is aka Cowardly Confused Progressive.

    Where is the leftist “art” mocking Islam? Mohammad?

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 9:57 am - June 18, 2017

  24. Again: the 2012 production that they keep bringing up, as a ludicrous self-defense, wasn’t one-quarter as graphic; the Obama stand-in was handled with dignity.

    Know your audience?

    The 2012 production was at the Guthrie, not rural Kentucky.

    It’s just a highbrow version of the standard leftie tactic, “When we do it, it’s OK – it’s only a joke – or education – it’s good for you – nod nod wink wink. Up next, we’ll show you some artworks normalizing incest or pedophilia.”

    It’s a tactic of counting on decent people to be stupid, or at least to be willing to be lectured to – by the New York Times.

    What’s hiding in plain sight is: Leftie artists seeking to normalize graphic, depraved political violence and to flash images of it into the culture / into people’s minds, for the unspoken purpose of encouraging said violence.

    And it’s something they would never, neeeeeeeevvvvvvver do under a Democrat president. Again: the 2012 production that they keep bringing up, as a ludicrous self-defense, wasn’t one-quarter as graphic; the Obama stand-in was handled with dignity.

    No, it’s a matter of seeing an actual production, considering a piece of art, before judging. There’s nothing indecent about taking this approach. But, there seems to be a fundamental disconnect between myself and you and Helio on this.

    I can’t wait until the film version of Call Me By Your Name officially comes out later this year in limited and wide release. Will GP call it a primer for NAMBLA? I wonder.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 10:05 am - June 18, 2017

  25. I should explain something in case anyone doesn’t know – It’s long established that you can gradually “program” the unwary by what you flash at them. You can pretend you’re doing it innocently (when you’re not).

    Here’s an example. There is a famous video clip of Hillary in 2008 saying words to the effect (this is NOT an accurate quote, but I’m reflecting her general intent) “Why would I go around spreading a story that Obama is not an American citizen? I don’t think for a moment that Obama was born in Kenya.”

    As we all know – but the Left likes to deny – it was Hillary and her campaign operatives who started “birtherism” back in the day. Her operatives/surrogates spread the story straight up, as a rumor. But Hillary knew that she herself could not spread it straight up.

    Here’s the thing. You can say “I don’t think for a moment that Obama was born in Kenya”, and what you’re doing is flashing the sentence at people, “Obama was born in Kenya.” Manipulative people have known this trick for centuries. Today, it is part of something called Neuro-Linguistic Programming.

    It doesn’t matter if Hillary’s official, surface meaning was to *object* to birtherism; she was still the one inventing it – bringing it up – planting it in people’s minds. And visual/dramatic artists can do the same thing, by what they depict. Hence my statement:

    What’s hiding in plain sight is: Leftie artists seeking to normalize graphic, depraved political violence and to flash images of it into the public culture / into people’s minds, for the unspoken purpose of encouraging said violence.

    As part of free speech, they have every right to do it. And others have every right to point it out. Or to object. Or to deny financing. Or, when it’s taxpayer-funded, to protest as it’s happening.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — June 18, 2017 @ 10:07 am - June 18, 2017

  26. I have a pretty simple rule: the cast doesn’t stop the production to lecture any individual member of the audience, or the audience as a whole. At the same time, members of the audience do not heckle the cast, or rush onto the stage. It’s not fine when the cast of Hamilton lectures Pence, and it’s not fine when Loomer and Posobiec do it. It’s not a matter of how long the disruption is, it’s the fact of the disruption. Sorry if that doesn’t make me a “real” conservative- but then, I don’t really care for litmus tests and “no true Scotsman” fallacies.

    The proper way to raise concerns over the optics of this production, which based on the famous scene do seem to be a Leftist fantasy of Trump getting offed by “moderate” Republicans, is to write an editorial calling the appropriateness and dangerous political implications of such a move.

    Comment by Sean L — June 18, 2017 @ 10:18 am - June 18, 2017

  27. The Constantly Confused Progressive can’t (won’t) see the violent Progressive forest through the trees. At this point in time, any person with any moral standards would be ashamed to be a self proclaimed Progressive.

    The Constantly Confused Progressive lamented about the (made up) violent tendencies of the deplorable Trump supporters during the primary and election seasons only to actually show their violent tendencies since the election.

    The Constantly Confused Progressive who lamented about the availability of guns to the deplorable Trump supporters now extols the use of guns to “hunt down” Republicans.

    “A New Jersey Democratic strategist is capitalizing on the shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise (R-LA) by launching the hashtags #HuntRepublicans and #HuntRepublicanCongressmen, and he is showing no signs of backing down, claiming “the chickens came home to roost.”
    James Devine, a longtime political strategist in the Garden State, tweeted in the wake of the shooting at a Republican baseball practice in Alexandria on Wednesday that “we are in a war with selfish, foolish & narcissistic rich people”

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 10:24 am - June 18, 2017

  28. to me the people in that play stabbing Donald trump in the back are the republican party. et. tu ryan, mc Connell, graham, mc cain, et.al.

    Comment by salg — June 18, 2017 @ 10:32 am - June 18, 2017

  29. @ TnnsNe1: Now, now, give CCP a chance to defend himself. I’m sure that CrayCray agrees that using #HuntRepublicans and calling politics a “war” is bad optics and bespeaks a disturbing bloodlust on the Left. Isn’t that right, CrayCray?

    Comment by Sean L — June 18, 2017 @ 10:32 am - June 18, 2017

  30. Free Republic User Fars, who is heavily anti-Islamic and started his account in 2006 wrote this in 1. March 2008:

    I was told today that Obama swore in on a Koran for his Senate seat. I do not believe he did. Can someone clarify this for me? I am under the impression only a Congressman has so far sworn in on a Koran.

    Also that Obama’s mother gave birth to him overseas and then immediately flew into Hawaii and registered his birth as having taken place in Hawaii.

    Again, any clarifications on this? Defintely disqualifies him for Prez. There must be some trace of an airticket. While small babies are not charged air fare they do have a ticket issued for them.

    Long time ago but there may be some residual information somewhere. Good ammo (if available and true) BEST USED AFTER he becomes PREZ (if that occurs) and it’s too late for Dems – except accept the VP.

    Another anti-Islamist posted about it 5. March 2008.

    it was Hillary and her campaign operatives who started “birtherism” back in the day

    False.

    Her operatives/surrogates spread the story straight up

    True.

    Hillary ran with it. But, she didn’t “start” it. She was running for president and wanted it all costs. Nothing is really beneath her. Never argued the opposite. But, Trump certainly made a bigger deal about the birtherism than Hillary did, and he wasn’t even running for president at the time (well, not for the 2012 nomination anyway).

    To contrast:

    Mark Carman, who owns the Capitol City News & Maps store, told me of going to a candidates’ debate in Columbia, “and when we got back to our car, there was a flyer under the windshield wiper saying something about McCain having a Negro child. My wife is African-American—she just tore it up.”

    Politics is nasty.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 10:38 am - June 18, 2017

  31. John Wilkes Booth did not live in a vacuum.

    Comment by Ignatius — June 18, 2017 @ 10:50 am - June 18, 2017

  32. to me the people in that play stabbing Donald trump in the back are the republican party. et. tu ryan, mc Connell, graham, mc cain, et.al.

    Do you have a link to the assassins being these specific Republican senators? The people stabbing “Trump” in the play are mostly black (and one female) is my understanding (and again, further bolsters the interpretations of the NY Time and Variety). That would make for some strange casting. But, I suppose it’s possible.

    I’m sure that CrayCray agrees that using #HuntRepublicans and calling politics a “war” is bad optics and bespeaks a disturbing bloodlust on the Left. Isn’t that right, CrayCray?

    People who are using that hashtag (which I don’t know anything about) sound out-of-line to me. But, what I’m discussing here is what I think may be the misinterpretation of the director’s intent. It’s strange to me that someone can say with full confidence they know exactly what this production is about without not actually having since it, and lacking that vital context.

    It’s unfortunate that nuance seems to be lost on both sides.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 10:52 am - June 18, 2017

  33. The next time a left-winger commits an act of an actual violence, the left will point to the interruption of this play as morally equivalent.

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 10:55 am - June 18, 2017

  34. People who are using that hashtag (which I don’t know anything about) sound out-of-line to me.

    The guy who started the hashtag is a Democrat Party activist and political consultant.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/democratic-strategist-launches-huntrepublicans-after-congressional-gop-shooting/

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 10:58 am - June 18, 2017

  35. I wish you all would stop attacking each other. Both sides are making good points. CCP and ILC both. The simple fact is, like any other form of “entertainment” people are going to pay money to watch what they want to watch, according to their own preferences. It’s part of the whole notion of freedom and the pursuit of happiness. If I don’t like it or have no interest, then I won’t spend my money to see it. I may not like you or respect you for choosing to, but it’s your choice.

    Comment by TAD — June 18, 2017 @ 11:06 am - June 18, 2017

  36. The next time a left-winger commits an act of an actual violence, the left will point to the interruption of this play as morally equivalent.

    ILC argued that I would be one of these people to do so:

    But if #BLM or Act Up or an anti-Catholic Catholic were doing it, you’d be telling us how it’s art in its own right and the protestors’ rightful contribution to the performance in social context and we have to look at their stated intentions and credit what they say.

    Yet, he hasn’t justified this accusation/prediction. He seems to think he knows what is in my heart and mind. Yet, strangely, he can’t prove it.

    As someone with a theatre degree and a respect for the crafts involved, I don’t ever endorse any kind of disruption of a play production, regardless of politics, out of respect to the art. I believe in free speech and people expressing what they believe, especially in the world of theatre. If anything, I wish there were more plays that expressed a more conservative point of view. Diversity is often best.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 11:07 am - June 18, 2017

  37. at @32 I was speaking metaphorically about what is happening to trump in the play and what is happening to him in real life.

    Comment by salg — June 18, 2017 @ 11:42 am - June 18, 2017

  38. Sorry for the misunderstanding. But, I do think it’s interesting in the play that the conspirators are made of black men and one white woman.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 11:46 am - June 18, 2017

  39. Cray, while you are correct that it was her campaign staff that spread the birther rumor (I personally think it makes no difference, since his mother was American, that makes him a natural born citizen), Hillary did not admonish her staff for spreading the rumor, which, if she truly did not want the rumor spread, she would have.

    Comment by Craig Smith — June 18, 2017 @ 12:13 pm - June 18, 2017

  40. Yes, the extremely obvious point that Trump is racist and hates women is “interesting”. Almost as interesting as the extremely obvious point that women and people of color need to revert the barbaric tactics of Roman times in order to get their way.

    Still waiting for the sem-professional listing of Progressive art mocking Islam and the murdering of the truly racist misogynist Mohammed.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 12:17 pm - June 18, 2017

  41. Oh, I think she wanted that rumour spread for sure.

    I personally think it makes no difference, since his mother was American, that makes him a natural born citizen

    I agree. Both Clinton (and then Trump and others) capitalised on millions of people who were too stupid to care that his birthplace was moot as far as questioning his citizenship was concerned (the crux of the birther movement).

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 12:18 pm - June 18, 2017

  42. 39, the Constantly Confused Progressive is simply displaying the Progressive double standard number 3 : “Any act/thought of a conservative candidate supporter is laid at the feet of the candidate but those act/thoughts of a Progressive supporter are in no way connected to the Progressive candidate”

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 12:23 pm - June 18, 2017

  43. This will usually make most folk cringe when it comes to threats

    http://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/01/09/palin-aide-defends-%E2%80%98crosshairs%E2%80%99-political-map-that-targeted-giffords%E2%80%99-district-in-2010/

    Multiple crosshairs

    Comment by rusty — June 18, 2017 @ 12:28 pm - June 18, 2017

  44. Still waiting for the sem-professional listing of Progressive art mocking Islam and the murdering of the truly racist misogynist Mohammed.

    May I ask why you are waiting for something that doesn’t exist and why it’s my responsibility to provide it?

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 12:29 pm - June 18, 2017

  45. 39, the Constantly Confused Progressive is simply displaying the Progressive double standard number 3 : “Any act/thought of a conservative candidate supporter is laid at the feet of the candidate but those act/thoughts of a Progressive supporter are in no way connected to the Progressive candidate”

    Where have I done this?!

    And, Gretchen, stop trying to make fetch happen. It’s not going to happen. RE: Constantly Confused … etc

    Peter H. has already coined the gold standard: Al-Cray-da. Go big or go home.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 12:31 pm - June 18, 2017

  46. Another trait of the Constantly Confused Progressive is that absolutely everything is absolutely about them.

    You are the self proclaimed resident theater and art semi professional expert.

    If this type of Progressive theater/art doesn’t exist, why not?

    After all, Mohammed was a racist, women hating homophobe. A good Progressive should see Mohammed as a great target for Progressive Preaching art/theater.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 12:39 pm - June 18, 2017

  47. Calling me “Gretchen” just proves the Constantly Confused Progressive double standard.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 12:41 pm - June 18, 2017

  48. IMHO, the “birtherism” charge was used by the left to discredit any and all criticism of Dear Leader, legitimate and otherwise.

    It also allowed them to bundle legitimate questions about his sealed college records, his visits to Pakistan, his relationship with Bill Ayers, and all the other sketchy details from his past and dismiss them without inquiry.

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 12:46 pm - June 18, 2017

  49. Calling me “Gretchen” just proves the Constantly Confused Progressive double standard.

    Huh? It’s a line from Mean Girls. Yeah, I know. You’ve never seen it, nor care to. And the fact that I quote it says more about me. Etc.

    If this type of Progressive theater/art doesn’t exist, why not?

    I wish it did.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 12:48 pm - June 18, 2017

  50. It also allowed them to bundle

    If you tie legitimate questions into one that is obviously not–out of convenience or for whatever reason–the outcome isn’t going to achieve any productive results.

    Anyway, RSG’s comments about Free Speech made a helluva lotta sense.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 12:51 pm - June 18, 2017

  51. Using a feminine name to insult a gay male is not very Progressive.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — June 18, 2017 @ 1:06 pm - June 18, 2017

  52. Using a feminine name to insult a gay male is not very Progressive.

    Okay, I’ll make a note of that.

    Making sh!t up about someone isn’t very conservative, though, either. Please see Comment #45 for reference (the one where you responded to the Gretchen part).

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — June 18, 2017 @ 1:14 pm - June 18, 2017

  53. They have the right to perform this insult to Shakespeare but there is zero chance that anyone could produce this if the Caesar character were portrayed as Hillary or Barry. There’s be riots (and I’d see it as in bad taste).

    Lefties can have their assassination-porn (lefties are turned on by violence) but I want them to piss off with the lectures on tolerance, diversity, civility, acceptance, and the rest of their Newspeak drivel that means “shut-up or else”.

    I tend, in principle, to not agree with the disruption stunt. But I also acknowledge that Conservative, Inc. has been ineffectual opposing the left which is not interested in genteel debate or constructive argument. The left, as has been true for the last few hundred years, plays to win by any means.

    One’s opponent often sets the rules of engagement. It’s not cricket.

    The left’s hysteria over Trump is detached from reality. When there’s no agreed reality (e.g. deporting illegal aliens with criminal convictions != SS rounding up Jews in Warsaw), compromise and constructive debate is not possible.

    John Derbyshire has a take on this production which I agree with (about 9 minutes in). This was before the disruption.

    http://www.vdare.com/radios/radio-derb-progressive-violence-afghanistan-bill-cosby-etc

    Comment by KCRob — June 18, 2017 @ 2:23 pm - June 18, 2017

  54. Cernovich posted a challenge for a $1000 to anyone who would
    Disrupt the show.

    Comment by rusty — June 18, 2017 @ 2:33 pm - June 18, 2017

  55. Cernovich’ call for action with instructions and $1000 carrot

    https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqKDwBvmnexV

    Posobiec said he was unaware that his friend Laura was even at the play.

    Comment by rusty — June 18, 2017 @ 2:57 pm - June 18, 2017

  56. George Soros and Robert Creamer are laughing their asses off. “Amateurs!”

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 3:09 pm - June 18, 2017

  57. Here is Matt Miller on June 12, 2017 in Esquire:

    At the Delacorte Theater in Central Park, the Public Theater’s latest production of Julius Caesar features a title character with a straw-colored comb over, an ill-fitting suit, and trashy gold everything. The character is never once called Donald Trump (because he is, obviously, Julius Caesar), and in fact, director Oskar Eustis has only added three words to the script, modifying one line to: “If Caesar had stabbed their mothers on Fifth Avenue, they would have done no less.” It’s also a pretty fitting association, considering the character of Julius Caesar is a narcissistic asshole.

    But that hasn’t stopped right-wing propaganda machines Breitbart and Fox News from trying to stir up some shit that just isn’t there. Last weekend, Breitbart ran an article with the headline “”Trump’ Stabbed to Death in Central Park Performance of ‘Julius Caesar.'” And Fox News ran, surprisingly, an even less responsible headline that forgot to even mention the title of the play: “NYC Play Appears to Depict Assassination of Trump.”

    In response, two sponsors have pulled support from The Public Theater. Delta tweeted out the news this weekend, saying, “No matter what your political stance may be, the graphic staging of Julius Caesar at this summer’s Free Shakespeare in the Park does not reflect Delta Air Lines’ values. Their artistic and creative direction crossed the line on the standards of good taste. We have notified them of our decision to end our sponsorship as the official airline of The Public Theater effective immediately.”

    And Bank of America pulled its support hours later, with a statement saying: “Bank of America supports arts programs worldwide, including an 11-year partnership with the Public Theater and Shakespeare in the Park. The Public Theater chose to present Julius Caesar in such a way that was intended to provoke and offend. Had this intention been made known to us, we would have decided not to sponsor it. We are withdrawing our funding for this production.”
    (…)
    And if that isn’t enough, the director released an artistic statement pretty clearly summing up the themes of the play: “Those who attempt to defend democracy by undemocratic methods pay a terrible price and destroy their republic,” Eustis wrote. “Julius Caesar is about how fragile democracy is.”

    But don’t expect anyone in these times to actually try to understand anything. They just like to get mad about it first.

    In my opinion Matt Miller’s snotty, elitist attitude speaks volumes.

    How about using Bernie Sanders instead of Donald Trump? Or Anna Wintour? Or Graydon Carter? Or Harvey Weinstein? Or Al Gore? Or Nelson Mandela? Or Fidel Castro? Or JFK? Or Al Franken? Or Bill Gates?

    The point is clear to anyone who isn’t so wrapped up in being artsy-fartsy that decency is never in play. Matt Miller makes it clear: this is a hatchet job on Trump replete with a “straw-colored comb over, an ill fitting suit and trashy gold everything.” According to Miller, Julius Caesar in a narcissistic asshole, therefore my substitutes for Trump seem pretty much to fill the bill for the artsy-fartsy Oskar Eustis and Matt Miller.

    Oh, and Cray,Cray: I answered your idiocy about a piss Muslim something. I would oppose it on the simple grounds that offending any religion for useless purposes is out of bounds. Decency is something you really ought to study and try to understand.

    Comment by Heliotrope — June 18, 2017 @ 3:37 pm - June 18, 2017

  58. The sudden defense of Free Expression from people who got hissy-fitty over a rodeo clown who wore an Obama mask is just too precious for words.

    Comment by V the K — June 18, 2017 @ 4:04 pm - June 18, 2017

  59. I started this thread and I’m going to take the final word for today.

    What Laura Loomer and Jack Posobiec did, *is* free expression. First, by any definition of “free expression” that a leftie would recognize. And second, because the performance was not at all a private or narrowly-tailored event. It was free (tickets awarded by lottery), in a public park, from a group that takes both private and public funding – probably including my federal tax dollars at some point.

    I am a free speech absolutist – INCLUDING the free speech of a heckler/protestor in a space that is truly public, who does their thing for a few seconds, then quiets down or leaves peacefully as soon as they are asked to.

    Moreover, what Laura and Jack did was performance art that added to the production’s gravity and meaning. Most productions rely on some degree of audience reaction. If it’s true that “You can’t judge an entire production unless you stay for the whole performance” (comment #1) – If – then a certain commenter should not even be opening his yap, here. Because he was not present in New York to see Laura’s and Jack’s performance in artistic context and how they added to the production.

    That’s called, making a faulty premise collapse on itself. There is usually more than way to do it. Here’s another.

    “You can’t judge an entire production unless you stay for the whole performance” would require everyone to see every low-grade, nihilistic piece of crap – in full, before they deciding they don’t want to fund it, or don’t want to have their kids seeing it, or don’t need to see it themselves. Everyone…including lefties. Lefties would be forced to fund – and to watch in full – any performance that I chose to stage of some new work that beheads Obama, Hillary, Mohammed, Huma Abedin, a dog and 3 pigs together and mixes their blood and asks for audience volunteers to drink it, before lefties could decide that the production was no good – or that they didn’t need to see it – or that it contributed to a negative environment.

    And last but not least, we were never judging the entire production: We’re judging the Trump assassination-porn scene, and the kind of (disturbed, negative) mentality that its staging reflects; and its interaction with the Climate of Hate that lefties have created in America today.

    Now everyone take the afternoon/evening off…enjoy your Sunday.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — June 18, 2017 @ 5:19 pm - June 18, 2017

  60. […] Loomer and Jack Posobiec’s Shakespeare in the Park protest was somewhat new-ish: Conservatives bringing home the Left’s disruption tactics (though still […]

    Pingback by GayPatriot » Leftie juvenilia – with a smidge of progress — June 23, 2017 @ 4:30 am - June 23, 2017

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