This is one perspective, and I know of no reason it should be considered illegitimate. I tend to agree that the reason for forcing the military to accept transgendered people is an emotional one. “It’s not fair!” is the tantrum-cry of a spoiled child, not a reason-based argument. To me, the question is whether the military will be better at its primary mission if transgendered people are in it. That should be the only question in consideration of what the rules ought to be.
I would say this is an illustration of the general truth & the situation as a whole. It’s representative & valid, imo.
We now have people like Sen Hatch of Utah echoing the Left’s pretend outrage, with his little persnickety pie hole mouthing the words of opposition to Pres Trump, as the pres takes the brunt of the criticism, while the Joint Chiefs imply that it’s not their idea, while saying “for now nothing’s changed”.
While there are valid people who would be better off getting the final cut & living life as an opposite sex. The agenda in all this is to further the Left’s ::False Narrative:: that people who are confused to their actual sex, aren’t mentally ill & in need of help with reality. Where they would be told, eventually, that people of both the sexes are in a broad range of masculine to feminine & that has nothing to do with living life or with their sexual orientation.
So, imo, this proposed military ban on trannies has opened up a can of worms by stopping the process of the false narrative of the Left, in its tracks.
Btw, I don’t have a problem with the rare traditional transsexuals & have implied that above. I also don’t have a problem with transvestism. I don’t have a problem with ultra masculine gays or ultra feminine straights, etc.
Stop the Left from defining the conversation.
Frankly, I see those who want hormone therapy and artificial breasts, and whatnot in order to appear to be the opposite sex from what their bodies and DNA tell them, in a similar light as an anorexic who wants gastric bypass surgery.
Any doctor who would okay this is engaging in malpractice in my opinion.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/kristin-beck-trump-transgender-ban-2017-7?r=US&IR=T
#3, another miss.
Kristin Beck went into the military as a straight man. He was married to a woman and they had children together. Lots of straight people change in midlife. I did too. Nothing unusual about that. And lots of gay people go into the military and do the job as the gender they were born. Tomboys and butch men have been in the Armed Forces for a very long time… even in other countries and going back millennia.
The transitioning thing, however, does not belong there. It’s not even comparable to pregnancy while in the service.
Kristen Beck is being totally brainless with her remarks. Not everyone’s trans lifestyle is the same, and she ought to know that.
I don’t even know why I give a crap anymore, honestly. But one thing Kristen forgot to mention when she stated, “They don’t care about people. They don’t care about human beings…” is that our military also don’t care about winning wars anymore, either. Not for a long time.
~Ignatius
~NorthDallasThirty
~ILoveCapitalism
~Heliotrope
Achilles may have been a fetching-wench in-drag, but his fingering the edged weapons still gave him away. Things haven’t changed much in three thousand years.
But then war came, he put his armor back-on and started slitting throats with the best of the Greek warriors. What he and Patroclus did in their tent wasn’t a secret to the troops or the Greek generals, but they didn’t demand a parade either.
As a thought experiment: Substitute “women” or any other minority category of your choosing for “transgenders” to get a sense of whether the original claim advanced by the President has inherent value. After all, one could demand an army made up solely of white, heterosexual males. Would that lack of diversity enhance operational readiness? Apparently so …
And anyone figure out what Cray’s posts are saying? Because I don’t have a clue.
Cas, I’m not sure what you are saying, but diversity never makes for strength. Commonality makes for strength.
There is a distinct difference between minorities, women, and transgendered, in that minorites know they are of a specific racial origin, and their bodies and DNA agree. Same with women. Transgenered? Um….no.
So, trying to make a comparison here is comparing apples and oranges.
I am not sure where I stand on this issue. How President Trump seems to show no loyalty to anyone but himself. His trashing of Sessions was disgraceful, and Spicer and Priebus showed class by leaving this soap opera of a White House. It is just impossible for the President to curb his mouth.
There are a lot of medical conditions that can render a person ineligible for military service. If the armed forces have to accept transgendered people, then do they also have to accept people with asthma, TB, MS, hernias, paranoid schizophrenia, and heart disease? If not, why not?
And transgender people do have serious medical conditions that can interfere with doing their duties. The surgery itself is expensive and time-consuming. The patient may need counseling and psychiatric therapy to cope with the transition. All of which means taking time off the job. There can be complications from surgery, requiring more treatment, meaning even more time off.
I have no idea how Cray,Cray read my words, but since he has quoted me, I will will make myself perfectly clear:
Being gay (or transgendered) is NOT a vital characteristic that will enhance the military mission,
Perhaps, coincidentally, a person who does have a skill or knowledge that is vital to the military mission might happen to be gay or transgendered.
Here is how, apparently, CrayCray’s false sillygism is constructed:
All top minds in rocketry are wanted in the military.
Robert/Roberta Transgendered is a top mind in rocketry.
Therefore all Transgendereda are wanted in the military.
What natural skill is inherent in the transgendered that automatically makes the transgendered a valuable military asset?
The military is made up of professional killers and those who support the art of killing.
From where I sit, people with extra baggage in the personal identity area are very, very likely bringing their personal problems, fights, demons, etc with them to the job.
The military should not be a club that just everyone can join. If you want a job corps for the general population, start up the WPA again and pay people to pick ticks off of wild deer.
I was a medic in the military. People with asthma couldn’t join, in fact 2/3 of the current population couldn’t join without a waiver for physical/mental standards. There are non Asian minorities too stupid for the military to accept that get college scholarships.
When Gaga said about tranny suicides as a reason to have them in the military I realized she thought we needed suicide bombers on our side
OT: What not to do in Russia:
https://squawker.org/world/video-homosexual-sjw-calls-russians-sht-on-flight-to-moscow-gets-knocked-out/
It was glorious when I realized TRUMP waited 2 full days after leftists lied about forgetting identity politics and focusing on things the common people want like the economy before he dropped the tranny ban.
Leftists may see the military as a job corps for the general population, or as a laboratory for social experimentation. They do not consider national defense to be a necessary function of government, so they are not worried about decreased efficiency or decreased combat readiness.
Analogies to racial discrimination are invalid. Race is a benign characteristic that does not, in itself, impair ability. A black person who enlists in the military is not automatically classified as non-deployable for four years.
As noted above, Kristen Beck did not transition until after being discharged or retired . S/he was not transgender while on active duty. And I would probably be OK with veterans’ benefits paying for sex change surgery, but only after the service member is discharged after completing the required term of service.
Lady Gaga tweeted that 40% of transgender people attempt suicide between the ages of 18-24, and that the military ban would make it harder on them. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? Does she think that the military is supposed to be some sort of safe space for LGBT people? If you suffer from depression or dysphoria, and have ever contemplated suicide, then the military (a high stress job if ever there was one) is absolutely the last place where you should be.
Where was all this outrage the first seven years of Obama’s presidency, when transgenders were banned from the military?
They are not a part of “our community.” Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals are attracted to members of their own sex. Transexuals want to be the other sex. If the GLBT community was a country, it would be the former Yugoslavia.
Transgender persons should not be accepted in military until the transition is complete. Then it could be based on whether you can do the job or not. The military is not a taxpayer funded medical and psychological clinic for people who can’t afford to live up to their choices. A total distraction on getting the job done. As for gays in the military it should be based on the same criterion, can you do the job without using it for a platform to expound on your rights and can you deal with having your precious feelings hurt in order to defend your country and fellow soldiers? The military is not a social engineering experiment except to radicals who only have their agenda in mind.
From AOSHQ:
Hi Craig Smith,
Thank you for the reply. I apologize for not being clear enough.
If I understand you right, you assert that DNA must match the outward appearance of the body. Is that right? I would only offer that if this what you are arguing, how would you feel if there were genetic reasons for transgenderism? Would that give you pause or would you think that is irrelevant?
Yes it does. And a narrow definition of “commonality” has been used as a reason to resist the inclusion of people into the armed forces in this country that didn’t fit what was then, in the past, the definition of commonality–man is common, woman as not fitting norm, etc. If I would offer a broader definition of commonality: humans with a sense of humanity that can do the job as described, and who want to exercise their right to serve their country in the all volunteer armed forces. Allow those people to serve.
So, you dogooders, posting here, oare you trying to say that transgenderism is a genetic, biological happening? Why is the left so hell-bent in negating that there are differences between what a male and a female are, and that isn’t just among humans. They are both biological realities that are determined in the womb. They are not interchangeable. No matter how much a man wants to be a woman he will never be able to carry a baby that has been impregnated in him just because he has reassignment surgery. No matter how much a woman wants to be a man she will never be able to ejaculate sperm that will create a viable fetus in a woman. Ovaries create eggs and testes create sperm. Females have ovaries. Males have testes. Believing that can be changed is delusional and therefore a mental issue, NOT a genetic/biological one. Delusions have no place in a military setting, much less a war zone. If a person cannot be clear on what sex zhe is, then how can they be expected to make accurate, snap decisions in battle?
Then there is the whole issue of my tax dollars going to pay for reassignment surgery of someone who will not be deployable or completely able to perform assigned duties for at least 4 years??? I don’t think so. The Founding Fathers never said that happiness should be given, it said it should be pursued. That would indicate that people actually have to work for what they want if that’s what was going to make him or her or xim or zer or it happy. The military can allow whomever they want in order to best fulfill the requirements of service and they can deny whomever they want for inability, whether that be physical or mental. Seriously, I weigh 450 pounds due to lifestyle, genetics, and thyroid issues. Under your argument, if I wanted to serve, they should have to accept me and pay for my gastric bypass, rehabilitation, and the inevitable plastic surgery I will need to remove all the excess skin I will have. Seriously? Are you kidding me???? I am so tired of the attempt of the left to make this world into some sort of social utopia!!!! Life is not fair. Life is hard and then you die. Nothing can or will ever change that. Stop living in the utopian fantasy and start doing something good, something that will actually do something beneficial while you are here. Rant complete.
Getting quoted can be funny. The person might think they’re making one point, when they’re making a different point without realizing.
Apparently, in regard to gays in the military, I said this:
No link was provided, but it sounds like something I would say, so I’ll accept the attribution. It would be exactly the reason why I think it’s fine to exclude gender-dysmorphic people from the military.
As people suffering from a pretty serious mental-emotional disorder (unlike gays), and therefore based on relevant criteria (such as mental-emotional state), gender-dysmorphic people lack the right capabilities and temperament for military service. Just like people known to be, say, depressed or bipolar or anorexic.
More in this thread: http://www.gaypatriot.net/2017/07/27/heh-10/
Heck, the U.S. military even excludes people who had childhood asthma.
I’ve done so, and the President’s claim came out OK.
Being a woman, gay, a racial minority, etc. isn’t a mental-emotional disability. Being gender-dysmorphic, is. See the thread linked above for more.
Tom, indeed. You mention the surgery itself, with possible complications and long adjustment periods. As a taxpayer, I have no desire to pay for that. But there’s more. As someone mentioned in the other thread, a transgender person is a walking pharmacy; expenses aside, their physical condition makes it harder (more difficult and dangerous) to do battlefield medicine on them.
This couldn’t be more different from the situation of women, or some minority like gays or blacks. Transgender people have a legitimate disability. If they’re transition(ing/ed), they add a certain degree of physical disability to the rest.
For reasons of political correctness, we’re supposed to pretend they somehow have no disability. But they do. Screw political correctness.
Note, I’m NOT saying they need to be rooted out. But a policy of not accepting them in the recruitment phase, makes sense medically, operationally and in many other ways.
Disagree; like I mentioned above, even after the transition, they’re medically problematic – they have a kind of disability.
I think the text & subtext of V the K’s comment #19 is all inclusive & can’t be argued with on any level. If someone is confused as to which sex they are, before or after joining the military, there is no way they can be trusted as being level-headed enough to watch your back in combat or in operational support.
If I were Pres Trump & that big burly tough guy dressed up as a lady came up to me & convince me or intimidate me into believing she/he could “do the job” or “be trusted to support people in the theater of battle”; I would take a breath, keep my cool & not laugh at the someone who obviously has a big, big problem with reality & I’d excuse myself from such company.
This is the reality. The military is not a gateway to a person’s desire to fulfill a delusion or personal dream of becoming the opposite sex & if someone in active duty begins to naval gaze enough that he/she becomes unsure of the absolute reality of his/her existence, that person needs to be discharged & a recommendation needs to be made of psychological help.
There is no other reality about it! It’s absolute! It doesn’t matter if that burly bruiser in a skirt can lift & juggle 100 lb weights! He is unstable! & to back that up with whatever current politicized shrink has decided to say in support of the Left’s many & sundry false narratives – is disingenuous & dishonorable. A lie not only to support mental instability but also a lie that puts our people in danger.
This isn’t about being gay in the military or a minority in the military. No one will say that I am the same as someone that is confused as to what is between my legs. No one. I do NOT belong to a club or group of people that includes the mentally unstable among us who wish their daddies had given them a barbie as a kid instead of a g.i. joe. You will not substitute a valid person who may or may not be a minority in the place of the word transgender. It is a lie.
In addition to the many excellent comments made by our own posters, the Facebook poster makes the most compelling argument, along with the post V the K made above, which is actually a condensed tweetstorm by J.R. Salzman (available in its entirety via http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/07/26/wounded-warrior-j-r-salzman-hammers-purveyors-of-pc-in-the-military/).
Lady Gaga, et al, didn’t realize they were making the argument against transgender military inclusion with their suicide statements, but they were. Why would any institution want a class of persons who are prone to be suicidal in excess of a rate over the general public? (And mark my words, Victor/Victoria Manning will end up ceasing his/her existence via their own hand.) In addition to K.Beck, the other transgender veteran advocates portrayed in the media over the last week also transitioned post-service.
As aptly noted by Sean L, the outrage over the past week is misplaced, as for the majority of the Obama Administration the tranny ban was in effect, the same as the Department of Education rules on transgender accommodation (which in reality never went into effect).
And what happened to Yugoslavia is pretty much what will be happening to the LGBTQXYZ+ community if the insanity doesn’t end sometime soon. It’s time to cut the Tranny Train loose from the sexual/affectional minority alphabet soup. The needs are very different, and the WaPo op-ed writer who claimed “An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us!” couldn’t be more wrong. Being prohibited from serving in the military isn’t an attack on the entire transgender community and not kowtowing to the overactive imaginations of a very minute minority isn’t an attack on me, as a natural-born male attracted to other natural-born males. The groups which are using the transgender community to perpetuate their own existence need to stop doing so and reevaluate their own mission and identity. The transgender community will be much better off when they are left to their own devices and not piggybacked with other dissimilar groups.
Indeed, RSG. The people pushing for transgendereds in the military are Chelsea Manning (convicted traitor) and Lady Gaga who admits that the transgendered are mentally unstable; along with a whole horde of leftists who hate and despise the US Military.
The excellent V the K posting from AOSHQ @ #19:
Oh, this is s-o-o-o-o needlessly harsh 🙁 !!!
The military is a community, don’t cha know. And communities need organizing. Not everyone in the community goes to fight, don’t cha know. Some are in the military to shuffle people around and bureaucrat and carp and plan and goldbrick.
For instance, they can’t send a clarinet player from the band to shoot and stuff, don’t cha know.
People in 2017 need a Safe Place while they snowflake; the military is obligated to give them time out to reorganize themselves until they are ready to blend in again. If they can’t get back to duty, then the duty must be changed. And it is the general’s job to make sure every single sole is happy in his/her/its work.
If things are the way the AOSHG posting implies, then we must end war and just have peace throughout the globe and share and be all warm and cuddly socialists drawing on our diversity in a multitude of multicultural ways like they do in the Emerald City which is just beyond the rainbow. 🙂 !!!
We should put the whole world on welfare and make sure that everyone is happy with his place on the Good Ship Lollipop. And if anyone isn’t happy, we should form a committee and work, work, work the whole day through until blue birds sing and a blanket of comfort settles over the globe.
A single prescription for Antidepressants can make one ineligible for
The military. Given the stress of military deployment can often cause mental instability in an otherwise healthy person (PTSD, depression etc) it makes non sense to sign on somebody already mentally fragile.
Generally the military won’t accept anyone who requires a daily medication to maintain health (diabetics, asthma, high blood pressure, ADHD, depression, etc) all prevent enlistment.
A transgender person requires hormones for life.
The military has the purpose of defending our nation-it isn’t a social experiment or club. My nephew wanted to join the military but in the medical fitness evaluation he was found to have very minor hearing loss (so minor he didn’t know he has it and doctors don’t find it necessary to correct) and was disqualified. His appeal was also rejected.
The problem with these groups which defend themselves based on all-for-all and all-for-one dragging people through the court system whenever someone looks at them crooked is the reason why people have cold feet regarding these very group members’ legitimacy over and beyond any of their individual’s ability.
If you want to be treated as an entire group being one entity, then don’t complain when people actually do so.