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Free to Choose

Posted by V the K at 11:33 am - September 24, 2017.
Filed under: Religion (General)

Depending on your POV, this story will either cheer you or mortify you.

After years of attending church and working with local Church leaders, Christofferson was baptized for the second time in October 2014. This marked a new beginning for him in the Church but also a heartbreaking end to a 19-year relationship.

“When the time came that I was worthy and wanted to again become a member of the Church, after months of conversation, my partner’s generous desire was that I should follow whatever path I felt would be the one of greatest happiness for me,” Christofferson recalls. “He had reason to feel that I had chosen the Church over him, and yet he was willing to support my decision despite its cost in his life. I can think of no higher tribute to pay to his selflessness and love.”

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41 Comments

  1. On the one hand, I can admire people who see there’s more to life than just their own little corner of reality in the here and now.

    On the other hand (I am not at all religious), it seems to me that if there is a God and if God created the universe then it follows that there is room for gay couples that love each other.

    Comment by KCRob — September 24, 2017 @ 1:26 pm - September 24, 2017

  2. Personally, I don’t think God cares as long as two adults love each other and don’t abuse others because of their beliefs. However I do believe that Leftist couples looking for Christian bakers to sue for a fast buck and to destroy will be rotting an eternity in hell.

    Comment by Sandra — September 24, 2017 @ 1:34 pm - September 24, 2017

  3. The only issue I have with this story is this: I have worked with children for over 30 years and I can assure you that a 5-year-old child does not have the capacity to discern whether or not he/she is gay. At this age, they are not cognitively equipped to be able to know what being gay or sexual attraction is. It is developmentally impossible.

    Comment by Drew — September 24, 2017 @ 2:41 pm - September 24, 2017

  4. He should have joined an Episcopal Church…he could have gotten the spirituality he was seeking and still get to keep his partner.

    Comment by Paul — September 24, 2017 @ 4:56 pm - September 24, 2017

  5. That is a nice story. I hope that he is happy.

    Comment by James — September 24, 2017 @ 5:11 pm - September 24, 2017

  6. He should have joined an Episcopal Church…he could have gotten the spirituality he was seeking and still get to keep his partner.

    Not really. The LDS Church is very gospel-oriented and family-centric. The Episcopal Church is more about the social justice gospel than the Biblical one, and operate more like a social club. The two are not interchangeable.

    Comment by V the K — September 24, 2017 @ 5:17 pm - September 24, 2017

  7. As an atheist, it is awful that this man goes back to a church that is anti gay. It is his choice, but it is the wrong one. The church of the perfect people as I call it is anything but perfect.

    Comment by davinci38 — September 24, 2017 @ 5:50 pm - September 24, 2017

  8. “Not really. The LDS Church is very gospel-oriented and family-centric. The Episcopal Church is more about the social justice gospel than the Biblical one, and operate more like a social club. The two are not interchangeable.”

    Well, it doesn’t help that the LDS church is anti-Trinitarian. And there are a large number of Episcopal churches that are Gospel-centric.

    Comment by Paul — September 24, 2017 @ 6:53 pm - September 24, 2017

  9. Oh My Goodness. If there are not enough church pillows for every head, then start your own ego-boosting version and send out invitations.

    If the God of the Old Testament or the Quran were at the controls, all sorts of lightning bolts would be flying.

    Jesus left a set of challenges which few are anywhere close to carrying off to perfection.

    Some folks flip off the challenges of Jesus and find that nothing bad happens as a result and then flip off Jesus entirely. It is like passing on a curve with no headlights and windshield wipers on the blink in the dead of night during a driving rain. You have a 50-50 chance. So, if you make it once and then twice and then three times — you have “fate” on your side. Or not. The point is not divine retribution, it is one of moral, ethical and common sense stability.

    This fellow has chosen a path and he has been lovingly supported. What is anyone to say against him? Only a social justice warrior type would step on that scenario.

    I do, however, agree with V the K. The Episcopal Church has sold its religious soul for popularity and lost both. Why pay for Holy Water when a cold beer is more satisfying? But, the costumes the “priests” wear are fairly baroque and fairly Trekkie for those who crave the masquerade. The LDS, if nothing else, demand attention to the game plan.

    Comment by Heliorope — September 24, 2017 @ 7:25 pm - September 24, 2017

  10. Thanks for your comments davinci38 and Paul.

    Give your parents permission to grieve the loss of the child they thought they were going to have

    How sad to assume that every child is supposed to come out of the womb straight.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 24, 2017 @ 7:30 pm - September 24, 2017

  11. Leave it to Cray Crap to derail it into a self absorbed personal attack.

    Comment by John C. — September 24, 2017 @ 7:38 pm - September 24, 2017

  12. The Episcopal Church = the hipster church

    Comment by Pawfurbehr — September 24, 2017 @ 7:40 pm - September 24, 2017

  13. “How sad to assume that every child is supposed to come out of the womb straight”

    Yes, the 98% chance of a heterosexual child is not really a reason to have a certain set of expectations.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — September 24, 2017 @ 8:08 pm - September 24, 2017

  14. If you think 98% of the population is Kinsey-scale 0 … lmao …

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 24, 2017 @ 8:27 pm - September 24, 2017

  15. The conundrum that may homosexual Christians face is the fact that denominations either oppose gay marriage or have become SJWs in Christian drag. Which places right-leaning homosexuals in a lose-lose situation: we either have to make our peace with the fact that we are never going to be “right with God” in the eyes of our church, or attend dying denominations that are little more than liberal coffee clubs with feel-good slogans.

    Comment by Sean L — September 24, 2017 @ 9:18 pm - September 24, 2017

  16. Sean L: The denominational bureaucracy of Mainline churches may be Boswash hipsters in religious drag, but your local congregation of said denomnation may not necessarily be.

    Comment by Paul — September 24, 2017 @ 10:17 pm - September 24, 2017

  17. Sean, you pretty much nailed it. No, wait… you precisely nailed it. The mission of the church ought to be to bring people to Christ; not to bring church doctrine in line with contemporary political correctness and virtue signaling. A church is supposed to make *you* more holy, not bring itself down to whatever you’re doing already.

    Comment by V the K — September 24, 2017 @ 10:38 pm - September 24, 2017

  18. The “SJW Churches” rose partly to accommodate those of faith who were no longer welcome in their own church.

    So one could argue, like some here recently with Trump, “You brought this on yourselves.”

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 12:53 am - September 25, 2017

  19. *Just to be clear, I’m not. But, it’s the same logic employed with the arguments about Trump.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 12:54 am - September 25, 2017

  20. V the K are you part of a Christian church?

    Comment by TAD — September 25, 2017 @ 12:57 am - September 25, 2017

  21. I never understood the inherent contradiction in LDS dogma, if you promote biblical polygamy then you have surplus males in your population requiring a safe and sanctioned outlet. Unless you intend to kill them off…

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — September 25, 2017 @ 6:13 am - September 25, 2017

  22. LDS Church Doctrine does not condone polygamy. http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/polygamy-latter-day-saints-and-the-practice-of-plural-marriage

    Comment by V the K — September 25, 2017 @ 6:36 am - September 25, 2017

  23. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Gates-How-Many-People-LGBT-Apr-2011.pdf

    I was wrong it is a 97.5% chance of heterosexuality. The Kinsey-scale is outdated. You can’t rebuke the findings of the report I cited. It is from UCLA.

    Even if you go as high as double the findings here, a 90% chance of a given outcome is certainly reason to have a set of expectations.

    Very easy to tell that you have never been a parent.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — September 25, 2017 @ 9:06 am - September 25, 2017

  24. Here that?

    Goalposts moving.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 9:20 am - September 25, 2017

  25. Just to refresh …

    Yes, the 98% chance of a heterosexual child is not really a reason to have a certain set of expectations.

    If you think 98% of the population is Kinsey-scale 0 … lmao …

    But, please, spin away! By all means!

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 9:21 am - September 25, 2017

  26. Yup, cray is in his trolling mode

    Comment by Pawfurbehr — September 25, 2017 @ 9:26 am - September 25, 2017

  27. Yeah, sure. Pointing out the fallacy of 98% of the population being heterosexual is “trolling mode.”

    Sure. Whatevs.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 10:01 am - September 25, 2017

  28. 26.Yup, cray is in his trolling mode

    When is xe not?

    Comment by V the K — September 25, 2017 @ 10:24 am - September 25, 2017

  29. It is trolling mode when you use outdated research.

    Yes. I moved the goalpost in your direction but I guess you aren’t bright enough to pick up on that nuance.

    Why are you obsessed with me? My husband is 3 years older than me. How old is your husband? Oh wait, you moved to a country where you can’t have a husband, where you don’t have free speech, where you can only own a gun at the pleasure of the government and where they keep lowering the age of sexual consent.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — September 25, 2017 @ 11:23 am - September 25, 2017

  30. where you can only own a gun at the pleasure of the government

    Where the Government confiscated guns and threatened citizens with prison for failure to comply. Which now only allows a citizen to own a weapon if he belongs to a Government-sanctioned shooting club, which requires a citizen to submit to random Government searches of his home and effects, which extorts exorbitant fees from citizens for exercising their basic human right of self-defense.

    And Hillary and Obama cited this as an excellent model to emulate.

    Comment by V the K — September 25, 2017 @ 11:44 am - September 25, 2017

  31. V, do you belong to any particular Christian Church?

    Comment by James — September 25, 2017 @ 3:18 pm - September 25, 2017

  32. Why are you obsessed with me?

    Someone seems to have lost the plot and forgot that they first responded to me with a fake claim.

    They got called out for back-pedalling and they keep goosing the numbers.

    Your “Executive Summary” doesn’t even report a margin-of-error.

    : rolling eyes :

    you moved to a country where you can’t have a husband, where you don’t have free speech, where you can only own a gun at the pleasure of the government and where they keep lowering the age of sexual consent.

    Just because I stand for gay marriage doesn’t mean I want one for myself (the opposite of V the K). I march for gay marriage, because I believe those who are gay who want to gay marry should be able to. But, I can’t imagine you getting that through you thick skull.

    And no free speech? I haven’t been censored yet.

    I don’t carry a gun, nor need to.

    they keep lowering the age of sexual consent.

    You seem to be very interested in this subject. Please articulate how Australia keeps “lowering the age of sexual consent.”

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 4:28 pm - September 25, 2017

  33. I already posted the Australian article. Is your Google broken.

    The report I posted is from UCLA. You can’t doubt that!

    I moved the goal post in your direction and you still complain.

    There is not much to worry about with you and marriage.

    So, how can you call yourself a “patriot” when you are willing to give all your rights up to the control of the state?

    So, are you old, ugly, stupid, lazy (need the state to make decisions for you) and cantankerous? Is that why marriage is not an option for you? Is this the real reason for your VtheK jealousy?

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — September 25, 2017 @ 5:03 pm - September 25, 2017

  34. Hmmn. So TnssNe1 has a fascination with age of consent laws, asserts that Oz keeps lowering theirs, and then when he’s called out on it, he goes radio silent.

    are you old, ugly, stupid, lazy

    Just old. But not as old as your wrinkled @ss.

    Xo

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 5:27 pm - September 25, 2017

  35. Except of course, I already posted the information. You can add lazy to your list of attributes.

    Ain’t no wrinkles on my bottom! One of the reasons the hubby has kept me around for almost 36 years. This is fun. Progressives are so easily triggered.

    Comment by TnnsNe1 — September 25, 2017 @ 8:01 pm - September 25, 2017

  36. Sweetie, you wrote, “where they keep lowering the age of sexual consent.” None of your links actually substantiate that.

    “Keep lowering” implies multiple consecutive occasions of reducing the age of consent over a current period of time, as in, for instance, a country that lowered age of consent from 17 to 16 just a few years ago, after lowering it from 18 to 17 just a few years (or decades for that matter) before that.

    Keep trying, though.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 9:55 pm - September 25, 2017

  37. Ain’t no wrinkles on my bottom!

    I’ll take your word for it as much as the merit in your comments.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 9:57 pm - September 25, 2017

  38. And congratulations to you and your husband. You found each other during a very dark time in gay history. You’re lucky to have each other.

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 9:59 pm - September 25, 2017

  39. Not so fun fact …

    Age of Consent laws in 1880 …

    Australia: 12

    United States: 7-12

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 25, 2017 @ 10:34 pm - September 25, 2017

  40. James (#5). I agree. I suspect that he’s going to ask himself “did I make the right choice?” every so often, and I hope he can answer yes.

    It’s a hard choice, whichever way one goes. One of my friends chose the other way, and while he hadn’t been that active with the LDS side of his life, it was still important to him.

    Yes, the modern Episcopal church has gone full SJW. As someone who loved the Book of Common Prayer of 1928 and what it implies, it breaks my heart. I think the non-SJW congregations have pretty much gone Anglican in their affiliation, and no longer call themselves Episcopal. (Interesting lawsuit in Falls Church, Virginia, over which faction–traditional or SJW–could have the historic (colonial) buildings. The SJW and Episcopal Church writ large won, but before this the Virginia law actually had the deeds assigned to the church vestry, not the national church. I don’t know if the law has been changed, or just the interpretation.)

    Comment by TheQuietMan — September 26, 2017 @ 9:41 am - September 26, 2017

  41. CCP has a larger deflection shield than the Enterprise.

    That’s rich seeing how yours is going on five days.

    Again, feel free to address #36. You seem to respond to 90%+ of my comments. Why not that one? Hmmn …

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — September 29, 2017 @ 9:10 pm - September 29, 2017

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