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George Takei Admitted to Groping Men

Posted by V the K at 1:40 pm - November 13, 2017.
Filed under: Gay Culture

Oh, my-y-y-y-y-y

Veteran Star Trek actor George Takei has vehemently denied allegations that he groped a male model during an encounter in the 1980s, insisting the alleged events “simply did not occur.”

But in an interview with shock jock Howard Stern recorded just weeks ago, Takei appeared to admit that he had grabbed and groped people in the past, saying he did it to “persuade” people who were “afraid” to have a sexual encounter with him.

There’s a transcript at the link.

Howard Stern: Did you ever grab anybody by the c–k against their will?
[Very long pause]

George Takei: Uhhhh … uh oh! [laughter]

Stern: Maybe it was some guy who was hesitating to have sex with you and you gave him a gentle squeeze on the b—s or something?

Takei: … More than gentle [laughter]. But it didn’t involve power over the other.

Yeah, I know this isn’t an Important News Story, but seeing a self-righteous prig like George Takei hoist on his own petard is pretty neat.

Update: Sulu says he was just role-playing a “sexy, gay grandpa” during the Stern interview.  I think I wanna be celibate, now.

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31 Comments »

  1. How pathetic and PC Howard Stern has become.

    Comment by Pawfurbehr — November 13, 2017 @ 4:22 pm - November 13, 2017

  2. Bwahhahhahhahhahhahhahhahhah…hahhahhah…hahhahhah.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — November 13, 2017 @ 5:00 pm - November 13, 2017

  3. Sorry, V, but your wild error in this matter cannot be allowed to stand:

    It’s “Hoist with his own petard.”

    Comment by Sathar — November 13, 2017 @ 5:37 pm - November 13, 2017

  4. Hi V the K,

    I still believe Scott Brunton. Not surprised by the Stern footage. And, I’m not sure that many people here at GP didn’t already believe Takei was a creep and assaulted the man. Not sure who else you’re trying to convince, because most of us believe Brunton.

    And I believe Beverly Young Nelson. Heartbreaking listening to her. I could here the little girl in the cracks of her voice.

    This is what trauma sounds like. Sad when people ask the question, “Why now?”

    Sincerely,
    CCP

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — November 13, 2017 @ 6:04 pm - November 13, 2017

  5. Hi V the K,

    Also, it was a popular sentiment on GP that “everyone knew” in Hollywood about Harvey Weinstein.

    Apparently, those who worked with Roy Moore, as well as the community of Gadsden, Alabama, knew about Moore. What does that say about the Republican party who allowed him to run under his banner.

    I mean, at the end of the day, Weinstein–the pig that he is–wasn’t running for public office. Or should we hold Hollywood figures to as high of a standard as political candidates?

    I look forward to the silence or goal-post shifting.

    Cheers,
    CCP

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — November 13, 2017 @ 7:03 pm - November 13, 2017

  6. CCP – I’m not sure the Rep Party “allows” anyone to run anymore than the Dem Party allows its various pervs and thieves to run (although the try real hard).

    Moore has stood for election to several posts and won fair and square (unlike, uhh, what happened in Hillary vs Bernie).

    The only accusation against Moore that would give me pause if I were an AL voter is the stuff with a 14-yo girl. The age of consent in AL is 16 and it’s not been that long ago that men and women tended to marry at a young age (back with people had to grow up). I would have other reasons to not vote for him.

    I wasn’t in the room with George Takei when he allegedly groped Mr. Brunton (and neither were you). If true, it was creepy but then a lot of gay men I’ve run across have been creepy. I had some old guy play grab ass in a bar back in the day but I just told him to keep his hands to himself and walked off.

    Takei’s problem (as with a lot of people) is his virtue signaling – condemning Trump for locker-room talk. People in glass houses and all that…

    I wish this would all go away for, as I’ve said before, there are serious issues facing the west (war, loss of our civilization, financial implosion) and way too much time is spent on stuff that belongs in the National Enquirer.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/145731/liberals-becoming-knee-jerk-anti-trumpists

    Comment by KCRob — November 13, 2017 @ 7:34 pm - November 13, 2017

  7. KCRob, the new Republic is a liberal rag. I’ve never noticed anything out of it that’s not of an agenda, or a complete falsehood.

    Takei is a dim bulb and liberal hack, any one on the Right has a moral right to gloat and to point out his feeble stupidities without a second thought.

    The obvious bottom line is that although creepiness and sexual assault isn’t related to ideology, recently the Hollywood Elite with their rape culture and assault on women far exceeds the norm and anyone on the right, again, has the right to point out the utter hypocrisy of the Left as their fallen Idols are exposed.

    V the K has every right to be what he is, a blogger on the Right with a bias against those attacking the country, attacking our society and our way of life.

    He doesn’t have to be fair, he doesn’t have to be a lawyer, he is a blogger with an opinion.

    V has pointed out that Takei has implicated himself as guilty, previously. Documented. It’s a complex issue as with any, he addresses them usually one by one.

    Comment by Hanover — November 13, 2017 @ 10:19 pm - November 13, 2017

  8. A lot of people still support Billy Boy and his “wife”. Even knowing what scum they are. Right, CCP?

    Comment by Lobogris — November 14, 2017 @ 12:42 am - November 14, 2017

  9. CrayCrayPatriot–let us go with V the K’s silence on this one.

    To V the K–Enjoy the Takei Schadenfreude! 🙂 It looks well deserved 🙂

    To Lobogris–Whataboutism!

    And Hanover, “He doesn’t have to be fair, he doesn’t have to be a lawyer, he is a blogger with an opinion.” Sure. He can have an opinion, but it surprises me that you don’t realize how hurtful it is to a blogger’s reputation to duck out and avoid someone’s clear, concise, and rational challenge to their “opinion” and show that they have NO effective answer. That doesn’t strengthen an opinionated blogger. That just makes them look weak. If you get something wrong, you just say so. At the moment, V the K’s silence just looks like insecurity. Sorry.

    And on the topic of sexual assault: The tendency of people here to believe that liberals accused of sexual assault are guilty, whilst those on the right of politics or conservative tend to be given more leeway. If you think Bill C is guilty of this stuff, then it would make sense for you to also believe that Donald T is also guilty of this stuff. And the fact that so many here resist that thinking intrigues me no end. Powerful men like to exercise their power against those who are weaker than they are. Sometimes that exercise crosses the line into illegality. BC looks like he went there. DT appears to have done the same. Could we agree on that?

    Comment by Cas — November 14, 2017 @ 2:11 am - November 14, 2017

  10. Cas,

    Funny you of all people would say that first bit.

    Go figure.

    As for Bill Cosby, His charges sounded at the time a lot more like solicitation than rape. But I didn’t follow the court cases much at all, so. (I’m sorry, but ‘He gave me Quaaludes and then we had sex’ reads a lot more like Bill paying for sex with drugs than Bill drugging a girl and then raping her, but the distinction is fucking hard to prove 20 years down the line in a he-said she-said case.)

    As for Bill Clinton – his accusers are public. Lends some credence. And they’re still in the public eye, from time to time, throwing needles, and that lends a little more credence. Not proof, by evidentiary standards, but then he’s never stood trial.

    Moore – looks bad for him. At best, inappropriate behavior bordering on ephebophilia, at worst, hebephilia. He seems to have cleaned his act up since then. Frankly, the worst of his accusers sound a little contrived – but stupider and viler things have happened.

    DJT – the ‘proof’ of his assaults appears to rely solely on one video taped bull session. Everyone who has ‘come forward’ has either been anonymous or their allegations proven false by DJT being literally on the other side of the continent at the time. The court case you mentioned, Cas, still concerns me, but nothing more has come of it. I remain waiting for those names you promised me, Cas, of women that have come forward with solid allegations assault and harassment. Until then, a braggart bragging about his manliness and speaking in an metaphorical manner does not constitute proof of sexual assault. Again, I’ve heard worse in hen sessions and bull sessions. I’m not saying everyone here has heard worse than that, but I live a pretty sheltered life.

    Comment by aerinyes — November 14, 2017 @ 2:43 am - November 14, 2017

  11. And yet again we have another idiotic common nonsensical and circular argument vomiting out of “Cas”. Leftists trying to say things into existence, do not have Merit. V more than aquits himself on anything he chooses to expound. It doesn’t matter what leftists of any kind, say. They snipe, not from a position of strength or veracity. Sad.

    Cas has previously been shredded over and over by other commenters. It’s little shell game is so transparent and it’s so typical. CCP got tired and thought it best to mimic this little nothing. It’s best to ignore them both or block them, as the case may be.

    Comment by Hanover — November 14, 2017 @ 6:04 am - November 14, 2017

  12. CCP, it doesn’t say anything about the Republican party that Moore has run as a Republican. President Clinton boinked a vulnerable intern in the White House, what does that say? A candidate for a congressional seat or a president? The answer is clear.

    The rape culture of the Hollywood Elite has raped our society with their billions of dollars supporting those whose ideology is all about making sure no one does better than anybody else.

    Moore is irrelevant. The massive numbers of individual perverts aligned to or with the Democratic Party far exceeds one example of a Republican, currently, being accused rightly or wrongly by a horde of women.

    This back and forth on the sexual assault issue is all fair game from either perspective, but the left is losing it because the sheer numbers of leftists being accused is overwhelming.

    The American people see the Hollywood Elite as a bunch of corrupt rapists and no one pays any mind to one individual running for office from Alabama.

    Repeating something over and over and trying to inflate a minor or lesser issue of a Republican being accused makes you nothing but a lame Democrat talking point. Unable to think for itself.

    Your points are invalid, not because they’re irrelevant, but because you’re just a shadow of a call center Farm shopped out to the leftists. You’re just repeating something some clerk says to the comment threads of several conservative sites, speaking from a large room vomiting out BS, and yes I’m talking about “Cas”. It’s so sad what you’ve become.

    Comment by Hanover — November 14, 2017 @ 6:07 am - November 14, 2017

  13. it doesn’t say anything about the Republican party that Moore has run as a Republican.

    What does it say about the Democrat Party that Fred Phelps ran as a Democrat, if we’re playing that game.

    Comment by V the K — November 14, 2017 @ 8:20 am - November 14, 2017

  14. Hi Hanover,
    I read #11 and looked for some content, an argument, something to use as a basis for discussion, but could find none. I found an assertion tossed salad. Cool. When you decide to make an argument with some evidence and rational structure, let me know. I’ll bring the dressing.

    Hi Aerinyes,
    Let me ask you some questions:
    “DJT – the ‘proof’ of his assaults appears to rely solely on one video taped bull session. Everyone who has ‘come forward’ has either been anonymous or their allegations proven false by DJT being literally on the other side of the continent at the time.”
    OK. Because, when I read about DT’s accusers–there are quite a few who are public, so the your “anonymous” claim does not appear to hold water on the face of it. Or do you find this list bogus? If so, why?

    As for “allegations proved false”–could you please provide your sources for this claim? What I see on line is a lot of material that doesn’t appear to support your claim. I would appreciate some guidance on this. So is Gilberthorpe your witness? He is an interesting fellow. Do you believe he is credible? If so, why? Why is he more credible to you, than Stoynoff, for example, having six other witnesses who heard her story at the time the events allegedly happened? You must surely have others that you can share with me? Please, I would like to read up on them and get a more balanced picture of what has been said here.

    I know you want to go all “whataboutism” concerning BC, but I am not arguing that he is “virtuous” or “innocent.” There is a very good chance that he stepped over that line. No guilty court cases–the same can be said about DT. Powerful men with resources and little conscience can settle out of court; they can get away with a lot! Why is DT so much more credible in his denials to you? I know that DT says that all these women are lying, and that is the official White House position. You appear to accept this. It also seems strange that you argue that you accept the legitimacy of BC’s accusers because BC has had accusers for some time. So, DT just needs to have this latest batch of accusers for a bit longer (how long?), and also occasionally interjecting themselves, and you will find them more credible? For someone who prides himself on his skepticism, your skepticism appears to be uni-directional.

    “The court case you mentioned, Cas, still concerns me, but nothing more has come of it. I remain waiting for those names you promised me, Cas, of women that have come forward with solid allegations assault and harassment.” First, my hope is that Ms. Zevos doesn’t settle, but wishes to see this thing through. Second, why would a court case for someone you think is unfairly treated in the press and the victim of a political hit job be something that would worry you? Third, what would you accept as “solid” evidence? Fourth, as to DT’s accusers, please check the links I offered above, Aerinyes. Unless you need me to copy and paste names?

    Comment by Cas — November 15, 2017 @ 12:48 am - November 15, 2017

  15. As I’ve said before.

    The MSM woukd love nothing better than to nail Trump to a wall. Possibly literally. And yet,there is no trumpeting of Trump’s sexual crimes.

    The MSM has been covering for WJC for decades. ..and they csnt stifle the accusations.

    The usual standard for rape cases…dna.

    Not decades old allegations of misbehavior that are effectivle impossible to factually prove. ..or disprove.

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 15, 2017 @ 2:48 am - November 15, 2017

  16. So, if we had DNA evidence BC would be on trial. He isn’t on trial. Is it safe to assume that we don’t have “solid” evidence to support BC’s accusers claims? So, in the absence of “solid” evidence, why are you more willing to believe BC’s accusers than DT’s accusers claims? What exactly gives you the confidence to assert that your standard: “Not decades old allegations of misbehavior that are effectivle impossible to factually prove. ..or disprove” when this also appears to apply to the claims against BC?

    And do you acknowledge that there is a lot of public non-anonymous accusers of DT now? If so, why doesn’t that move you, since it appeared to move you to think BC was guilty.

    As I said before, Aerinyes, “For someone who prides himself on his skepticism, your skepticism appears to be uni-directional.”

    Comment by Cas — November 15, 2017 @ 12:47 pm - November 15, 2017

  17. The funny part is watching Piss Cas shoot itself in the foot by accepting claims against Donald Trump at face value while screaming and demanding evidence for Bill Clinton’s.

    That’s what makes this game entertaining. Piss Cas is a bigot and a hypocrite who is trying to smear other people as bigots and hypocrites.

    And that is why V the K isn’t bothering. There is no more need for him to respond to Piss Cas than there would be for him to respond to a four-year-old screaming for attention in the grocery store. Piss Cas is simply pulling its pants down, taking a shit in public, and throwing a fit when it doesn’t get the attention it wants.

    It’s really funny to watch Aerinyes pull Piss Cas in even closer with lures. Now Piss Cas is screaming for DNA evidence….when Piss Cas insisted that DNA evidence isn’t needed to convict Donald Trump of rape. Once again, Piss Cas demonstrates that it’s simply a Democrat puppet, incapable of intelligent or rational thought and instead just vomiting more Democrat talking points.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 15, 2017 @ 2:56 pm - November 15, 2017

  18. Hi North Dallas Thirty,
    Glad you are OK.
    Yes, Aerinyes is “luring” me, luridly. 🙂
    Cheers
    Cas

    Comment by Cas — November 15, 2017 @ 4:21 pm - November 15, 2017

  19. We have dna evidence for WJC.

    Also, for a liberal progressive, you’re awfully eager to gender me.

    Might i ask your own gender? Its for a spreadsheet im compiling about people who assume what gender i am.

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 15, 2017 @ 9:20 pm - November 15, 2017

  20. Hi Aerinyes,
    DNA from the Lewinsky dress? Hmm… Is that it? Are you suggesting that BC raped Lewinsky?

    My apologies for assuming the “himself”!

    Of course you can ask!

    And you are being remarkably coy about answering the question (actually most of them!) I have asked you earlier. I’ll try a different formulation: Can you acknowledge that there are public non-anonymous accusers of DT now? If not, why not? You used your belief in these folks’ anonymity as one way to discredit DT’s accusers (#10). Do you still believe this, or have you changed your mind given the link evidence I presented to you at #14?

    Comment by Cas — November 16, 2017 @ 1:31 am - November 16, 2017

  21. You’re quite correct, cas. There are public, non anonymous peiple accusng DJT of sexual harassment and assault.

    What is your gender, Cas? Preferably biological, though I will accept ‘attack helicopter.’

    We also have multiple conflicting reports. Personally, i would not be surprised to find that DJT had gone backstage at Miss USA pageants, nor would i be surprised to find that he had not.

    It doesn’t move me because the MSM doesnt think that the allegations are newsworthy…in an age where CNN devoted two minutes to a dogs ear that looked like trump. It doesnt move me because those same people have been accusing menof sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 16, 2017 @ 2:23 am - November 16, 2017

  22. Telling me that I’m deplorable, misogynist, evil, a nazi, literally fucking hitler for the last few years.

    It doesn’t bother me because ive read so many stories about rape that were eventually proven false with no comment from the same media that promotes the idea of american rape culture, of racist crime after crime after crime that were set up by the very people purporting to be its victim.

    Hands up dont shoot. LIES.

    St. Trayvon Martin nobly defending himself by ambushing and beating the shit out of Zimmerman. Stand your ground. LIES.

    The media has LIED to me about so many of its pet causes for so long and so hard that unless the news is about one of their own tribe and negative, I dont believe it without serious corroboration from independent sources.

    I have absolutely lost faith in main stream media.

    I have never had faith in government to lose.

    The media has lied about people like me. They have intentionally misled with their fictional news stories, inciting anger and rage.

    They change what they say at a moments notice, neveroffer apology for being wrong, mea culpa, mea culpa maxima.

    And Cas, i do not forget. I do not forgive – there is nothing to forgive. I have accepted that they hate me. I have accepted that otherwise intelligent people like yourself and CCP are so blinded by your own intelligence that thay forget what history has taught, that they have accepted uncritically the idea that anyone opposed to their agenda is intellectually and morally deficient.

    150 million lives and counting, Cas, is the death toll of communism, of socialism this past century alone. Own it. The numbers will only ever increase.

    So, Cas, that is my reason. Progressives are LIARS. I trust them to lie to me. I trust that when they say a thing, that thing is likely false. And one of the best ways to lie, Cas, is when they include a little truth. Lie to me again, Cas. I’m used to it.

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 16, 2017 @ 2:44 am - November 16, 2017

  23. You nailed it, Aerinyes.

    What we see is people like Piss Cas who, when confronted with the inexcusable and disgusting behavior of a Democrat official, try to slander the person who their behavior was aimed at as a sexual predator.

    http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/fired-dallas-county-da-slimes-uber-driver-she-drunkenly-abused-10072539

    This malicious Democrat liar did the requisite “sobbing”, “crocodile tears”, and so forth, even as she accused someone who had done nothing wrong and had evidence of doing nothing wrong as a sexual predator.

    This is the mental and moral sickness of Piss Cas, CCP and the Democrat Party they represent. Slander, lie, demand the accused produce “evidence” of their innocence, all for abuse, manipulation and power over others.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 16, 2017 @ 10:57 am - November 16, 2017

  24. “150 million lives and counting, Cas, is the death toll of communism, of socialism this past century alone. Own it. The numbers will only ever increase.

    So, Cas, that is my reason. Progressives are LIARS. I trust them to lie to me. I trust that when they say a thing, that thing is likely false. And one of the best ways to lie, Cas, is when they include a little truth. Lie to me again, Cas. I’m used to it.””

    Hi Aerinyes,
    I hear the bitterness in your words. When you once told me that people here have been wounded by criticism from the left and/or the MSM, I should have realized that you counted yourself amongst them. You think me blinded… interesting. How do you see that? As for your “MSM is bad” claim—why can’t these very things be said about the sources you like to follow? Do you like Breitbart and Fox and other right wing sites that feed off MSM reporting whilst also denigrating it? Your judgement protects you? If I listen to out of the mainstream news sources that tend to have a more jaundiced view of what is reported, but from the left side of politics, am I still a blind tool of the establishment?

    What do you want me to own exactly? I would have thought that our earlier conversation about anarchism might have given you a small pause on thinking that I am your average big government socialist. Apparently not. Why, I am unsure. Feel free to enlighten me, if you desire. Utopian scientism does not impress me and for much the same reasons it doesn’t you.

    I also find your joining of Progressives with the MSM interesting. It is true that the majority of journalists see themselves as “progressive/liberal.” What about the owners? I don’t think that labels like “liberal” or “conservative” really apply to these folks, do you?. “Libertarian” as well … for that matter. They (including the people they help represent) have their own values, and you and I are not invited to their party—values concerning self-aggrandisement and the personal pursuit and enhancement of power, using establishment levers and government as tools to get what they want—no matter what labels you want to use or “us versus them” sides you want to set up.

    If you believe that those you engage with are acting in bad faith and you will not take what they say in good faith, why bother? When I get something wrong, I acknowledge it and move on. I find that way of doing things practically absent from many commentators on this site. They all too easily and comfortably lump together all who disagree with them by using the term, “progressive” after which they feel justified to dismiss and insult these “progressives”—correct me if I am wrong. If all a commentator can do is insult me, its a win for me, as far as I am concerned—they can’t make a rational case with evidence. It confirms to me that they have zero faith in the power of their own ideas.

    So, you have a real flair for language, and as you poetically suggest, you think I am liar. I have said this to you before—you get to decide what you want to think about me. But I prefer opinions based on rational argument, evidence, and judgement. I am open to being enlightened. Could you please share your evidence for your claim with me? I do wish to know. Is this DT style “lying”? Something else, more akin to ignorance? And, while we are at it—why ask me to share my gender with you—if you think I lie, why believe anything I say? What is the point of sharing with you, if you are unwilling to offer charity enough to think I am offering what I do in good faith? And faith and the nascent trust it inspires is a key issue, Aerinyes.

    And for the record, my gender is “biological attack helicopter,” [BAH] though I must admit that I get a little confused at times. When I find out what [BAH] means, you’ll be the first to know.

    Comment by Cas — November 17, 2017 @ 1:29 am - November 17, 2017

  25. The First lie.

    The one that binds the progressives, because they cannot, will not admit the truth, because to do so would destroy them.

    The fact that unborn children are human. That abortion is murder.

    To be honest, I’m relatively certain that you’re eastern European, probably female from word choice, though the assignation of a male gender to myself tends to point towards you being male. Native language is definitely not English and probably not a latin derivative. This is all armchair guess work on my part, of course, and my confidence level is only about 75%.

    If I had your IP address I could get closer, though if you are eastern European in origin you’re probably using an onion router, in which case I lack the time and reach to track down the source ip. Probably Ukraine. Russia’s too obvious.

    The owners of the media establishment certainly position themselves as progressives. I, for one, intentionally use ‘progressive’ as a label instead of ‘Liberal’ because frankly the claiming of that by the progressive left is insulting. They have no interest in liberty. Only serfdom. I do rate it likely that cynical self interest permeates the upper halls far more than any kind of progressive ideology. This does not make it better.

    The thing is, Cas, you don’t really acknowledge that you got things wrong. Neither does CCP. You kind of exit the debate mumbling about how you need to think about it, then months later you come back with the same old tired horseshit. I haven’t engaged much with mike, but he seems much the same, though less interesting.

    Evidence for you being a liar? None in particular, it’s bitterness and cynicism on my part. And it’s more akin to willful ignorance, blind, uncritical acceptance of progressive truths that make most progressives liars. Nice little Jab at DJT there, by the way, can’t even pull the horns in a little bit.

    I’m fully capable of debating in good faith with a liar, Cas. Them being a liar doesn’t affect me any. It’s always possible that enough of my truth might get through that people like you and CCP and mike will start to develop a little better light and come to a better truth. (There’s always more than one truth – your truth, my truth, THE TRUTH) In addition, debating with liars and progressives sharpens my own wit. No point in letting it get all dull.

    So tell me, Cas, are unborn children human? Or are they just clumps of cells?

    By the way, thanks for poking at that. I hadn’t realized quite how deep my own bitterness and cynicism ran. Lets me take it out and examine it, feel it for truthiness, evaluate its utility and decide if I need to work on being less bitter or if it’s justified.

    Comment by aerinyes — November 17, 2017 @ 2:33 am - November 17, 2017

  26. Hi Aerinyes,

    So tell me, Cas, are unborn children human? Or are they just clumps of cells?

    Isn’t that the question, Aerinyes? You state that a fetus is human. You have decided what human is. And if I disagree with you, I am a liar. That is an interesting, judgmental, and mightily superior position you hold.

    My view: The “pro-life” or “anti-abortion” believer ASSUMES that the fetus is an human being. The “pro-choice” or “pro-abortion” believer ASSUMES that the fetus is not an human being. If the fetus is an human being, abortion is murder, plain and simple, and no case can be made for it apart from protecting the life of the mother as self-defence. If the fetus is not an human being than the woman can do as she pleases.

    Both sides ASSUME that their ground is correct–BLIND to the possibility that they could be wrong. There is no path forward given these two entrenched positions. A basis for a rational and emotionally grounded conversation, has to start with a look at the underlying question of what makes us human, what it means to be human and work from there–and most people have way too much passion for that task.

    For me: I take the pragmatic approach common in the American colonies back in the day. The Quickening is the demarcation point until we find something better.

    The thing is, Cas, you don’t really acknowledge that you got things wrong. Neither does CCP. You kind of exit the debate mumbling about how you need to think about it, then months later you come back with the same old tired horseshit.

    What exactly did I get wrong, Aerinyes? What mumbling? Speak plainly and clearly, please. I would also appreciate it that if you can’t back your claim that I am a “liar” with solid evidence that you please withdraw your claim. I think that our ongoing conversation would be more pleasurable and constructive for both of us if you could release some of your sense of accumulated grievance–if just for a little while.

    Comment by Cas — November 17, 2017 @ 11:00 am - November 17, 2017

  27. Why do you think that, Cas?

    You clearly had no idea until I told you.

    And you’ve now completely changed the subject from progressive lies and the people who tell them to themselves.

    If you want to prove you’re not a liar, Cas, you need to do it. It’s a two way street, admittedly, but I’m still here. It sucks, sure, but too bad. Your fellow travelers have poisoned the well.

    Life begins at conception. That’s the…heh…scientific consensus. Aren’t the progs the party of science and reason? Or is it only science and reason that they like? Do women who’ve had multiple pregnancies magically make their children human before a woman who’s never given birth? There’s almost a month’s difference in there. How is that a solid basis for legal reasoning?

    Why not go with ‘the fetus being fully formed?’ Is the only distinction movement/conscious movement?

    Takei is Just Another Progressive Liar. Doesn’t involve power over the other my ass.

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 17, 2017 @ 12:42 pm - November 17, 2017

  28. By the way, thanks for -assuming- my intellectual and moral deficiency up there. I wasn’t going to say anything about it, but during my shower I got to feeling more and more indignant about it as time went on. You just assumed that I hadn’t critically examined my own premise.

    Another reason I call progressives liars, Cas, is because they repeat the lies told by sources I know for a fact lie and misrepresent the truth. And the sad thing, Cas, is that it doesn’t really bother me anymore.

    Our words are our weapons, our reasoning our defense. You’ve taken a step out of the prog bubble by coming here, even if it was in the role of the savior coming to save the benighted savages. Now pick up your sword and shield and fight.

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 17, 2017 @ 1:20 pm - November 17, 2017

  29. Hi Aerinyes,

    Cas: I think that our ongoing conversation would be more pleasurable and constructive for both of us if you could release some of your sense of accumulated grievance–if just for a little while

    Aerinyes: … Why do you think that, Cas? You clearly had no idea until I told you.

    It will probably surprise you to hear that I made the claim because I understood that you had suffered from this type of situation long before you formally said that it applied to you, today. And it is clear that when I have hit some psychic fault-line, you respond with some bitterness and anger. I am blunt and insensitive at times. I apologize for hurting your feelings but I do believe that we will have better conversations if we can tone down your expectation that I am going to rhetorically attack you. If you look for ambushes long enough, you will eventually find them, even if one is not there.

    As for your position on abortion. You are clearly a smart individual. You know that and I know that. I don’t get it when you say: “thanks for -assuming- my intellectual and moral deficiency up there.” Where did that come from? Please understand that you label me “Progressive” then say that Progressives lie and that they lie most profoundly about abortion, something you are strongly against: “The fact that unborn children are human. That abortion is murder.” That is pretty clear, don’t you think? Your questions at the end–which I answered were rhetorical to you–you clearly already know with blinding certainty what the answers are to your own questions.

    So, I reply with my own views and you find it insulting. Disagreeing with you must be dissembling, and thus lying! I said: “A basis for a rational and emotionally grounded conversation, has to start with a look at the underlying question of what makes us human, what it means to be human and work from there–and most people have way too much passion for that task.” That still sounds appropriate to me.

    I ask for evidence to back your assertion, and you reply that you won’t provide any. Then in a very cool jujitsu move, make me the one to prove to you that I am not a liar: “If you want to prove you’re not a liar, Cas, you need to do it. It’s a two way street, admittedly, but I’m still here. It sucks, sure, but too bad. Your fellow travelers have poisoned the well.” I am sorry that you have been traumatised by your past interactions with people on the other side of the fence. I am uncertain how using the weapons of those who oppressed you is going to get you what you need from our conversations. It is my hope that when your anger has cooled a bit, you will think about the efficacy and the desirability of this approach if you want genuine dialogue. Anyhow, I would appreciate it if you gave it some thought.

    As for your #27, I will offer a token of good faith concerning the question highlighted in #26:

    Life begins at conception.

    OK, if you want to start somewhere, I notice that you don’t provide an argument to link this to your claim that: “The fact that unborn children are human.” So, does HUMAN life start at conception? And is that the right way of thinking about it? Is it human life or human beingness? So, would you accept it if I modify your claim so that it reads: “A human being begins at conception”? It sounds a bit awkward as I have written it here. Can you make it better?

    Also, can you understand why I think that the claim, “The fact that unborn children are human” is problematic because you have already assumed that the unborn are already human? After all, they are “children”–a designation we usually reserve for human offspring outside of the womb.

    That is enough for now. And thanks for your end comment. I have my own baggage–it is not easy being on the other side of the fence at a site like this.

    Comment by Cas — November 17, 2017 @ 5:50 pm - November 17, 2017

  30. Mumble something and take off, only to come back later with the same tired old talking points.

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 18, 2017 @ 8:42 pm - November 18, 2017

  31. Hi Aerinyes
    Sorry sport–that is a cop out and you know it.

    Comment by Cas — November 19, 2017 @ 1:30 pm - November 19, 2017

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