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Politics Sucks

Al Franken is staying in the senate. John Conyers is staying in the House. Bill Clinton will die a free and wealthy man.

If anyone needs to rationalize a vote for Roy Moore, there it is.

“But what Roy Moore did is accused of is so much worse than what Al Franken is accused of actually did.”

Fine then. Let us remember then that a Democrat Congressman sodomized a sixteen or seventeen year old House Page, was re-elected six times by his Democrat constituents, and had a Wildlife Sanctuary named for him by his Democrat colleagues. (He remains an LGBT hero.)

So, basically, the voters of Alabama have a choice between a guy who was possibly forty years ago a moral reprobate, and a guy who will vote in lockstep with Kamala Harris and Chuck Schumer on abortion, gun control, tax policy, and amnesty for illegal immigrants. for a lot of people, this is a sucky choice. But it is what it is.

When this story broke, I was sure Roy Moore was toast; and he probably would have been if the Al Franken story hadn’t broken on top of Gloria Allred getting involved and promoting  an accuser with a forged yearbook and a story that fell apart like an IKEA entertainment center. He probably has a shot now that the Democrats have demonstrated it was always about power and never about women. He really should send Al and Gloria a nice thank you note for the lifeline they threw him.

I also don’t think it’s gone unnoticed that certain Republicans who were outspoken about Roy Moore have been conspicuously silent about Al Franke.

On an unrelated note, Colin Kaepenick is old enough to run for Senate against Dianne Feinstein. Wouldn’t that be fun to watch?

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40 Comments

  1. Then there’s this article, citing 24 recent Democrat sex scandals ignored by the Clinton News Network.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/23910/democrat-news-network-cnn-fails-report-these-24-ryan-saavedra?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

    Comment by windbag — November 25, 2017 @ 12:04 pm - November 25, 2017

  2. Indeed. Unfortunately, there may well be some substance behind the accusations against Roy Moore, but the Democrat-Media Complex has so betrayed the trust of the American people that they don’t have the credibility to pursue them.

    Comment by V the K — November 25, 2017 @ 12:27 pm - November 25, 2017

  3. Moore will indeed survive and probably prosper. Alabama has the right to choose their own people. The Bernie related Millennial girlies and assorted feminists who don’t vote are driving this Crusade to rip apart the Democratic Party and stick it to any other casualties along the way. They don’t care and as I said they don’t vote. They’re not capable of pragmatism or strategy. Also, no one is required to be a saint in order to qualify or be in public office.

    Moore is needed and there will be no consequences in the voting booth for having him present in Congress.

    For the greater good.

    Everyone has secrets, without exception. The best of us and the most talented are able to keep a lid on it all.

    Comment by Hanover — November 25, 2017 @ 12:28 pm - November 25, 2017

  4. Hi V the K,

    “But what Roy Moore did/is accused of is so much worse than what Al Franken is accused of/actually did.”

    Sorry I cannot put the cross outs that you have in. First I want to acknowledge that the standard in legal cases is “beyond a reasonable doubt.” On that level, Moore and Trump are not in trouble. It is all “he said-she said.” Even Franken’s apologies are couched so as to not get him in legal jeopardy. Clinton isn’t going to trial for exactly the same reason.

    But you and most folks on this site are certain that Clinton did it. Your gut tells you that where there is smoke, there is fire. I don’t disagree with you. So many incidents, creditable eyewitness accounts; people told these stories to close confidantes in natural ways long before making them public, etc. He has denied everything. That doesn’t stop you from believing as you do. It doesn’t stop many Democrats from holding onto their hope that Clinton is actually OK, and it certainly helped him while he was President as people defended him. “We don’t know for sure, it is so obvious the other side wants to get him, and he is our guy, and he is doing what we want him to … We are going to give him the benefit of the doubt.”

    Franken acknowledges something happened. As I said before, cynically, Al Franken’s big mistake was to do the right thing and admit to doing the wrong thing, even if it was pretty vague acknowledgement. So he is guilty enough for us to say that there is fire along with the smoke, and he should go. But he wants to stay, and I think his motivation is that he thinks that what he did though wrong is not worth resigning being a senator over. What do you think? Is it worth resigning over? Is the fire big enough, or is it the fact of fire that matters.

    We have Roy Moore and our Commander in Chief being accused on multiple fronts–and they deny. Just as Clinton does. What makes these guys more believable to you? I would prefer if you could avoid the rationalizations of “locker room talk,” etc. but really talk about why you think they are innocent. What makes them more believable to you than Bill Clinton? Or is that the wrong question?

    Comment by Cas — November 25, 2017 @ 12:37 pm - November 25, 2017

  5. Cas, the only named person actively accusing Moore of sexual misbehavior is Nelson, and her story is becoming increasingly improbable the more that we learn about the facts relating to the time of that incident (12 days at most, no phone in house, distant location of rendezvous point, behavior issues).

    Corfman has disappeared from conversation after Allred refused to turn over the yearbook, plus mutiple rebuttal witnesses disputing the allege meet-up.

    The rest of the “multiple accusers” either describe legal activity or relate anonymous rumor and accusation – in an effort to create a miasma of suspicion and “icky” feelings about Moore.

    All of which are over 30 years old with no intervening accusations.

    As opposed to documented evidence, corroborating witnesses from multiple individuals far more recently. That’s the difference.

    Comment by civil truth — November 25, 2017 @ 1:01 pm - November 25, 2017

  6. When they start finding 14 year olds that Moore has had sexual relations with from the last 10 years I will get a little more concerned. But this story mostly seems like an awkward attempt at dating younger girls by a single man. Most predators or serial harassers don’t stop after they get married and settled down.

    Everyone discussed in this article has multiple, recent accusations even if they are he said/she said.

    Comment by Just me — November 25, 2017 @ 1:04 pm - November 25, 2017

  7. “What makes them more believable to you than Bill Clinton?”

    Accusations of Clinton’s mistreatment of women have dogged him his entire public life, and not just from the women he harassed/raped, but also from credible witnesses like state troopers and secret service agents.
    Trump and Moore have been in public life for more than 40 years without ever being accused of racism or sexual harassment until, in Trump’s case, he was about to derail the coronation of Felonia von Pantsuit and, in Moore’s case, he was about to win a Senate seat that the socialists desperately want.

    Comment by Steven — November 25, 2017 @ 1:08 pm - November 25, 2017

  8. “I was sure Roy Moore was toast”

    Why?

    Conservatives voted for a president who was caught on tape bragging about raping women because god chose him to save America. Now conservatives are now telling us that god wants us to be pedophiles so it’s ok to vote for Moore.

    The conservative electorate has proven to be gullible fools who believe whatever nonsense their thought leaders spew.

    So of course they will be happy to put pedophile in office.

    Comment by mike — November 25, 2017 @ 1:08 pm - November 25, 2017

  9. Judging you by your mentality and the Fascists you support, you should be more than happy that Moore will win, mikey.

    Comment by Lobogris — November 25, 2017 @ 1:16 pm - November 25, 2017

  10. Oh look Mikey continues to talk about Bill Clinton.

    Comment by The Livewire — November 25, 2017 @ 1:21 pm - November 25, 2017

  11. The Alabama special election is on 12/12
    On 12/13 the Senate will begin deliberations on how to proceed seating Moore if he beats Jones.
    If the Ethics committee start the Franken investigation that Franken called for,
    The same Ethics committee will start a separate investigation of Moore.

    Not sure of the date When the elected Alabama senator be it be Moore or Jones, will start in DC
    But any new member of Senate will undergo the new sexual harassment training being prepped

    Comment by rusty — November 25, 2017 @ 1:33 pm - November 25, 2017

  12. mike – when did DJT claim to have *raped* women?

    Locker room talk about women that throw themselves at the rich ‘n’ powerful (grabbing them by the *****) is not claiming to have raped anyone. And, yes, there are women that attach themselves to powerful men (no self-respecting women would have put up with Bill C.’s shenanigans… or JFK’s or Ted Kennedy’s). Didn’t Newt Gingrich step out on his first wife and request a divorce while she was in hospital? And I think he stepped out on his second wife to find #3… like I said, bipartisan lack of class.

    The evidence against Bill C. is pretty hard to refute without resulting in confounds charms and memory modification. And HRC’s grifting is obvious to anyone paying attention.

    The issue here is, which if people were sane, that our elites are fairly scummy.

    Why people seem to anxious to put so much power in the hands of men and women (of all political persuasions) with no scruples; people for whom the deaths of thousands is just political positioning (from Iraq to Yemen to Libya to Waco to Benghazi) is beyond my comprehension.

    Comment by KCRob — November 25, 2017 @ 2:13 pm - November 25, 2017

  13. @12 – confundus… so much for pop-culture references.

    Comment by KCRob — November 25, 2017 @ 2:15 pm - November 25, 2017

  14. The issue here is, which if people were sane, that our elites are fairly scummy.

    Except to the partisan hacks and shills, for whom it will always be *Their* elites are scummy.

    Comment by V the K — November 25, 2017 @ 2:59 pm - November 25, 2017

  15. Ann Coulter sums it up.

    Oscar buzz around new film about man having sex with teenage boy [Call Me By Your Name – “Masterpiece!”] … and now back to attacking that pervert Roy Moore!

    Comment by V the K — November 25, 2017 @ 4:24 pm - November 25, 2017

  16. And Hillary is still an unindicted felon. That’s a fact, for the Leftie who has commented. Just thought I’d throw that in. As a reminder.

    Comment by Hanover — November 25, 2017 @ 4:39 pm - November 25, 2017

  17. Cas asks:

    What makes them more believable to you than Bill Clinton? Or is that the wrong question?

    Bill Clinton: A continuous trail of accusations and cover-ups that ultimately cost him his law licence and got him impeached. Monica Lewinsky turned over her blue dress with the Clinton semen stain and Clinton’s DNA popped out at the FBI labs. Travelgate. Whitewater. Willey. Flowers. Jones. Broderick. Lewinsky. The Clintoon Crime Foundation. Dead people. Billing records. Cattle futures. Sniperfire. Grifting. Etc.

    A lot of smoke.

    Roy Moore: Gloria Allred won’t turn over the smoking gun for proper forensic analysis. 40 year old charges of the hots for twitchy-butts and nothing in the intervening 40 years. The statute of limitations has entered the geriatrics ward. Apparently, Roy Moore went from Charles Manson horn-dog debauchery to Evangelical zealot and all you have is accusations.

    Donald Trump: (Cas writes: We have Roy Moore and our Commander in Chief being accused on multiple fronts–and they deny.)

    Oh, there it (Cas) goes again. “Multiple fronts.” So, if the DemonizingRats pound sand on a theme, it is worth a special prosecutor? Like how Trump and Putin colluded to wreck the Queen Hillary garbage scow. Got it.

    Gawd, but Cas is boring when it (Cas) plays the role of balanced and fair inquisitor. More like a lame ideologue who can’t conquer hop-scotch at the one box level.

    Do I believe Moore? Do I believe the MSM, the ideologues, Gloria Allred, the political buzz-saw, Cas or anyone named Clintoon? What’s it all about, Cas?

    The leftists have reached the level of confrontation in which they believe that if they dump a whole shitwagon of crap on a Republican the guy is required to come out walking on water as rainbows blind us with primary colors.

    First, dear reader, understand that Cas has always set the bar at proving innocence or disproving a lame theory or chit-chatting away at ever drifting and metastasizing, oozing premises.

    When it comes to the queries posed by Cas, who shives a git? Cas is in this to get drunk off the sniff of another’s cork. For Cas, Roy Moore is guilty as accused and a scum bag. I am sure that when he showed up at his primary win in that black vest and black hat and his pistol, Cas wrote him off as a pure lunatic ready for the the front of the line at the fascist, social justice warrior crematorium.

    My beef with Cas is that it/he/she is a virus who keeps on spreading ideologically fermented B.O. just to see if someone will pull it’s/his/her finger and make it/him/her fart.

    Like all useful idiots, Cas serves as the class clown who demonstrates why mindlessness is akin to composting.

    Comment by Heliotrope — November 25, 2017 @ 5:32 pm - November 25, 2017

  18. Roy Moore. He is so guilty. How guilty is he?

    They had to FORGE his signature.

    But hey…fake, but accurate. Amiright?

    Comment by Lobogris — November 25, 2017 @ 6:52 pm - November 25, 2017

  19. Hi civil truth and Steven,
    “the only named person actively accusing Moore of sexual misbehavior is Nelson, and her story is becoming increasingly improbable the more that we learn about the facts relating to the time of that incident (12 days at most, no phone in house, distant location of rendezvous point, behavior issues).
    Corfman has disappeared from conversation after Allred refused to turn over the yearbook, plus mutiple rebuttal witnesses disputing the allege meet-up.”

    You do realize that the techniques being used to discredit Nelson and Corfman are straight out of the Clinton playbook, right? You could be completely accurate in the efforts being done to undermine these women and portray them as liars, but then, the same could be said for Bill Clinton’s approach when the allegations came out. As for the yearbook; if it becomes a criminal case in which the state hires the experts, no problem. If Moore sues the woman, I would expect that the yearbook will be admissible as evidence. Otherwise, the idea that you would let Moore have an expert paid for by his side look at it and declare it a forgery sounds like a lose-lose for Corfman, don’t you think? Does she have the resources to fight that little gambit with an expert of her own? I doubt it. This is the benefit of being a wealthy and powerful man.

    “Trump and Moore have been in public life for more than 40 years without ever being accused of racism or sexual harassment until…”

    Trump was accused of assault by his then wife in a deposition she made during their 1989 divorce proceedings. Jill Harth accused him of sexual assault (non-consensual groping of her body) in a law suit, back in the late nineties and sexual harassment. The case was settled. So there are allegations that come from an earlier time. Does that impact your views?

    Hi KCRob,
    You may think the case is really good against Bill Clinton, but the lack of prosecution against him isn’t because he is an Houdini like figure. It is because the evidence doesn’t cross the threshold of “reasonable doubt.” Neither does the case against Donald Trump or Ray Moore. Confundo!!!!

    “The issue here is, which if people were sane, that our elites are fairly scummy.”
    Yes, I agree. I also include Donald Trump in that collection of “elites.” Do you?

    Hi mike,
    As far as I know, Donald Trump never said that he raped women. He said that he sexually assaulted and harassed them. There is a difference. And it undermines the points you make.

    Comment by Cas — November 25, 2017 @ 10:03 pm - November 25, 2017

  20. Moore has been accused of pursuing sexual relationships with teenagers in his early 30s. During an interview with the Associated Press, Ivanka said: “There’s a special place in hell for people who prey on children.”

    Comment by rusty — November 25, 2017 @ 11:27 pm - November 25, 2017

  21. It’s funny that rusty and his fellow Democrats are now screaming it’s pedophilia and creepy for men in their 30s to have sex with teenagers.

    Because, as one sees if one googles “Harvey Milk Jack Galen McKinley”, “Allen Ginsberg NAMBLA”, or “Harry Hay NAMBLA” or “Kevin Jennings Brewster” it becomes obvious that rusty, Piss Cas and CCP are all idolizing the documented behavior of gay heroes who, by their own definition, are creepy pedophiles.

    That should send Cut’N’Paste running, since rusty doesn’t have the mental acuity to realize I just Alinsky’d him.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 25, 2017 @ 11:51 pm - November 25, 2017

  22. Hi V the K,

    It’s funny that some people here on the far right have the audacity to anonymously commit libel without blinking an eye. This has been going on GP for years.

    Speaking of wanting to blink an eye or permanently close them from being blinded. Something I found on the internets.

    Cheers,
    CCP

    Comment by CrayCrayPatriot — November 26, 2017 @ 12:50 am - November 26, 2017

  23. Trump was accused of assault by his then wife in a deposition she made during their 1989 divorce proceedings. Jill Harth accused him of sexual assault (non-consensual groping of her body) in a law suit, back in the late nineties and sexual harassment. The case was settled. So there are allegations that come from an earlier time. Does that impact your views?

    Trump’s first wife and mother of three of his children has walked away from that deposition and “overcome” any acrimony remaining from the divorce. It is likely to the point of “beyond a doubt” that Trump had a “prenup” which was being massaged by her divorce lawyer. But that stuff is sealed and we can not know.

    Accusations which were settled in the court are 99.99% done and over with. No one can talk. So, if the accused offers $1 million to go away, that may be a smart use of money. If the accuser takes the $1 million, then we know the price for which the grifter would settle. But we don’t know the truth.

    Cas is ideologically forced to oppose Trump and anything which is grist for the hate mill is welcome.

    On the other hand, Cas is also totally amoral and wedded to situation ethics, so it is easy for Cas to forgive indiscretions in the Cas world of ideology and impossible to accept flaws in the ideological world Cas opposes.

    How shocking would it be to learn that Trump strayed outside of his marriage? How shocking would it be to learn that Roy Moore had the hots for twitchy-butts when he was 32? Would it be Teddy Kennedy-level, John Edwards level, Bill Clintoon level, JFK level, Chris Dodd level?

    But that is all wrapped up in equivalency and that makes it the game of slippery slopes that leftist relativists baste their “morals” with and the situations that leftists cling to in manufacturing their incident-driven ethics.

    John F’n Kerry married into the Hilton Head Realestate money. Then, Sen. John Heinz (R-Pa) died in a small plane crash and John F’n Kerry moved in on the rich widow. In the process, he quickly stiff-armed the Gilby’s heiress, because her “endowments” were chump change compared to the Widow Heinz.

    For many people, a test of character is very important. For leftist ideologues, it first depends on the ideology of the character being tested. Boys will be boys and nobody’s perfect and it is just about sex and don’t be such a prude.

    Remember with David Letterman joked about A-rod raping Palin’s 14 year old daughter durning the seventh inning stretch? Hi-lar-ious …. that Dave is a hoot!!! Remember how long it took the media and the leftists to figure out that Kathy Griffin holding Trump’s severed head was maybe a bit “edgy”?

    The leftist nags and social justice prudes are so certain of their certainty, that any disapproval is met with hate speech spewing from their every orifice. Disdain from a leftist is no more than being shit on by a pigeon. It happens. But it is only meaningful to the rest of the leftists at the Jr. High cafeteria table.

    Comment by Heliotrope — November 26, 2017 @ 1:35 am - November 26, 2017

  24. Well delineated, Heliotrope.

    CCP’s last round was a hypocrisy bullet? Pathetic. I’m sure it will try to get the last word, as if that’s important.

    Comment by Hanover — November 26, 2017 @ 10:19 am - November 26, 2017

  25. I don’t think that will be a problem, Hanover. I don’t see any of CrayCrayPatriot’s comments on this page, anymore.

    Comment by Cas — November 26, 2017 @ 3:28 pm - November 26, 2017

  26. Cas @ #19:

    (1.) You do realize that the techniques being used to discredit Nelson and Corfman are straight out of the Clinton playbook, right? You could be completely accurate in the efforts being done to undermine these women and portray them as liars, but then, the same could be said for Bill Clinton’s approach when the allegations came out.

    (2.) As for the yearbook; if it becomes a criminal case in which the state hires the experts, no problem. If Moore sues the woman, I would expect that the yearbook will be admissible as evidence.

    (3.) Otherwise, the idea that you would let Moore have an expert paid for by his side look at it and declare it a forgery sounds like a lose-lose for Corfman, don’t you think?

    (4.) Does she have the resources to fight that little gambit with an expert of her own? I doubt it. This is the benefit of being a wealthy and powerful man.

    (1.) …. Oh, my. Clinton invented establishing veracity as a defense technique? I thought it was more Old Testament than that.

    (2.) …. Moore stipulated that the Allred team would have its forensic evidence guru at the examination. Its not honest to omit half of the truth.

    (3.) …. See above. Roy Moore is a J-u-d-g-e. He would be cutting himself off at the knees to be so stupid as not to play by the rules of discovery.

    (4.) …. I doubt that the accuser could pay for five minutes of Gloria Allred’s time. Gloria Allred is a media whore and she found the accuser for Gloria Allred promotional purposes. Its called advertising.

    Swimming with the sharks in the shark pool is not for amateurs. By the time Gloria Allred is leveraging her personal gains, it is time to sit up and pay attention.

    When it first came out that Roy Moore diddled teenagers when he was 32, my initial reaction was that Roy Moore was being drowned in slime delivered by the truckload and that he should step aside. Not because of credible evidence, but because he is such a nobody that the national attempt to flay, draw and quarter him was too disgusting to watch.

    Then Roy Moore stood firm and demanded that the accusers “bring it on.” As Roy Moore forced one establishment critter after another to disavow him or duck for cover, Roy Moore became something of a wonder. This Evangelical in his black vest and black hat and pistol and pure grit was stepping out in the street and calling for a gunfight. You don’t see that much anymore in the world of Wolf, Anderson, Mika, Rachael, and the late Charlie Rose.

    But leftists are bullet fast in their rush to judgement and they know and feel that Judge Roy Moore is as guilty as they come.

    I would like to see Judge Moore elected and thrown into the garbage pit of the establishment, professional politician Senate and watch as both sides of the aisle try not to touch him.

    This is not about propriety, right or wrong or even politics. It has come down to poisoning the well.

    Comment by Heliotrope — November 26, 2017 @ 5:31 pm - November 26, 2017

  27. @19 – Cas: Bill’s Oval Office shenanigans were not criminal (mostly – the boob-grabbing certainly walks the line); the lying about it under oath was (which is why he was disbarred). The Congress failed to convict because it’s populated by gutless wonders. Let Martha Stewart (a Trump-hatin’ lefty) “lie” to an investigator and it’s off to the Big House. Let a Clinton do it and it’s hero worship.

    As far as Bill’s assaults on women and his use of state employees to facilitate his trysts (see Troopergate) were criminal but, as leftist love to remind us (with some good reason), there are two legal systems: one for the rich and/or powerful and one for the rest of us. If Martha had been a Dem senator, she’d have walked (and probably gotten a medal).

    As the left continually reminds us, NO WOMAN EVER LIES about sexual assault so, by that standard alone, I have zero reason to doubt anything Juanita Broaddrick has alleged. If you do, you are a misogynist.

    As far as scummy elites: DJT is not my cup of tea but I don’t think he is near as crooked as Hillary (lesser of two evils). And, unlike BHO and HRC, Trump doesn’t exude an aura of hate for the working class. Again, it comes down to the willingness of so many people to put so much power in the hands of people who’ve not given us any reason to think they will wield it responsibly and sparingly.

    If only someone could attach a shock collar to DJT that zapped him whenever he got the urge to tweet.

    Comment by KCRob — November 26, 2017 @ 6:03 pm - November 26, 2017

  28. I think the Democrat leftists know, at some level, that the evidence against Roy Moore is pretty thing gruel. But, after years of defending Gerry Studds, the Obama Safe School Czar, Ed Murray, Terry Bean, Sam Adams, and now Bob Menendez, they just relish the opportunity to screech that the other side is “defending a pedophile.”

    Comment by V the K — November 26, 2017 @ 6:49 pm - November 26, 2017

  29. Hi KCRob,
    I am trying to reconcile how you can have zero reason to doubt Juanita Broaddrick (since “women don’t lie”), but find the list of Trump accusers wanting. I don’t think Trump hates the working class either. He might actually love them… The same way that eagles don’t hate sheep; they love sheep–nothing is more tasty and delicious than a tender sheep.

    Comment by Cas — November 26, 2017 @ 7:11 pm - November 26, 2017

  30. @28 – To tell the truth, I’m not all that familiar with DJT’s accusers since we’re not hearing from them. If there were credible evidence, I’d think that CNN and all the rest would be running it 24/7.

    Personally, I’m sick of all this. We’ll be debating who-groped-whom when the bombs fall; when the dollar becomes worthless; when the race war starts; when Islamists succeed in hauling some dirty nukes across the southern border. It’s a distraction. We’ve been litigating Bill’s appetites for almost 30 years… he’s worths hundreds of millions and regarded as a saint. And neither Bill nor Hill gives two hoots about what anyone thinks.

    Here’s my suggestion to women: when some guy grabs your woo-woo without permission, sharply and with force, bring your knee into the offender’s pills. My bet is that the offender will keep his paws to himself in future.

    Here’s one thing DJT is doing for the working classes: he’s not actively working to screw us. Myself, I do OK so unlimited, imported low-wage labor doesn’t affect me (aside from crowding and taxes to pay for the fallout) but if I’m some kid that had a hard time making it through high-school or some kid named Devonte from the ‘hood, it’s a shot through the heart. None of the open-border nuts on either side has explained that to my satisfaction.

    Comment by KCRob — November 26, 2017 @ 8:16 pm - November 26, 2017

  31. From the “Women Never Lie About Rape” files:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4793030/Woman-pay-Army-colonel-accused-rape-8-4million.html

    Comment by V the K — November 26, 2017 @ 9:56 pm - November 26, 2017

  32. Hi KCRob,
    I get the low cost labour competition from low skilled immigrants for low skilled jobs here. Economists argue over the size of this impact, though I think it is real and significant. I worry about the Healthcare mess that will see the working poor pay more for their health insurance and DT is OK with that. He wants a better system he says, but proposes nothing; what is proposed will not get a lower cost (to workers) alternative for the same coverage. So, I think DT is actively working to screw the working class because he isn’t offering anything, something the working class will understand in nine months as their projected insurance premiums start shooting up. As for the tax cuts, I do believe that since they will be deficit financed, they will lead to increasing aggregate demand and increasing nominal wages for sure–but also increasing prices, as firms pass on wage costs to consumers, setting off a nice wage-price inflation spiral. The end result–workers will not be made better off as a whole, though some may benefit, depending on industry. And a year later, the Fed will be savagely raising interest rates to cut inflationary expectations and the inflationary gap. I don’t think that will help the suddenly unemployed workers either …

    Comment by Cas — November 27, 2017 @ 1:21 am - November 27, 2017

  33. It seems the case against Moore keeps getting more and more holes in the hull.
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/26/court-documents-roy-moore-accuser-violent-nature-history-criminal-fraud-family/

    Comment by Juan — November 27, 2017 @ 9:47 am - November 27, 2017

  34. Cas,

    No concern about the ‘Fight for 15’ wage/earning dollar spiral?

    No concern about the very real job market crash directly caused by the Affordable Care Act?

    Instead you see ‘corporate tax cut’ and think that’s going to cause a wage-price inflation spiral. Apparently we just can’t win. Why would -increasing- a corporations real income lead to -price increases?- This is the kind of logic that doesn’t make logic to me.

    Please to explain.

    Comment by aerinyes — November 27, 2017 @ 10:01 pm - November 27, 2017

  35. Cas does it again @ #31:

    Hi KCRob,
    I get the low cost labour competition from low skilled immigrants for low skilled jobs here.

    “Here” meaning the USA, “labor” is not spelled like Brits spell it.

    Cas loves to project itself into the USA.

    Low skilled jobs are mostly in laundry services, cleaning motel and hotel rooms, plucking chickens, digging and raking, carrying loads for skilled labor, picking, picking up, sorting junk, spreading tar, and the like.

    The average welfare recipient is an idiot to trade not working and being housed, fed, medically cared for, transported, etc. for a few bucks an hour. So, we have to pay big sums of money to house and feed and supervise the welfare class and their children for nothing in return, except more costs to society. It is the perfect scam.

    Immigrants who come here (legally or illegally) to do low skill work are neither needed nor are they particularly attractive.

    Migrant agriculture workers are a story all their own.

    We are actually very low on low skilled jobs. That is because we have eliminated as many of them as we can. But low skilled workers jam our welfare rolls. Even McDonald’s would rather have you order on a punch screen than to pay a no-mind to screw up the cash register.

    Manhattan has a growing number of empty stores. That messes with the NYC tax base. So, the genius mayor has floated the idea of taxing landlords extra for empty stores.

    Just for Cas, I will explain: The stores are emptying because people are not making them profitable. The landlords are zoned and regulated as to what can go into the empty space. There are fewer and fewer takers. So, hitting a landlord with a penalty tax for a place he is having trouble renting is stupid.

    Manhattan is a two-tier place. A huge population can barely afford to work and live there and another huge population pays idiotic sums which gives them elitist satisfaction to live there and they having nothing whatsoever to do with the other tier. Anthony Weiner and his wife Huma were given a $120,000 per month apartment by some acquaintance. Weiner was a stay-at-home pervert dad and Huma serviced Hillary. What kind of take-home pay did that lovely couple “earn?” $1.5 million is a lot of free rent.

    Low skilled Chirping Chicken food by bicycle delivery guys live in ghetto conditions, eat from the stew pot and still send money home.

    Don’t expect anything from the public housing crowd. They get free college education if they can concentrate and stay sober.

    I really would like the acolytes of socialism to explain the plan to me. Not the dream or the theory, just the plan. Oh, look! A squirrel.

    Comment by Heliotrope — November 28, 2017 @ 2:46 am - November 28, 2017

  36. Hi Aerinyes,
    ,blockquote>Instead you see ‘corporate tax cut’ and think that’s going to cause a wage-price inflation spiral. Apparently we just can’t win. Why would -increasing- a corporations real income lead to -price increases?- This is the kind of logic that doesn’t make logic to me.
    The idea offered for the corporate tax cut was that it would boost worker income by $4000 or so. Do you remember that claim? Just Google it, and see. The claim is that increased profitability will bid wages up as firms decide to produce more–they will need more workers, hence wages will rise. They will rise because we are at Full Employment now (4.1%). Getting new workers into the economy is hard now, especially since the Labour Force Participation seems to be on a downward trend, even if there has been a small bit of reversal of late.

    The problem with the issue is that–if they are right–what will firms do when they see their costs go up? If aggregate demand is rising (and isn’t that a major point of the tax cut), firms will be able to pass those wage cost increases onto consumers in the form of higher product prices. They will pay them because the workers have more money to spend… DO you see where this will go, Aerinyes?

    Remember–the tax cuts are designed to help AS and AD. AS in the long run, AD in the short run. And in the short run, we get inflation. And IF the Fed watches and does nothing, the real money supply shrinks and interest rates rise for two reasons–first, because a shortage of money will force real (and hence nominal)interest rates up, and second, as inflation takes hold and people adjust their inflationary expectations, that will also be factored into nominal interest rate increases. AD will fall, , as will AS in the long run.

    If the Fed accommodates with easy money, inflation will spiral upwards. That is my take. You are welcome to disagree. I look forward to your argument.

    Comment by Cas — November 28, 2017 @ 4:59 pm - November 28, 2017

  37. Whoops, sorry about the blockquote mishap …

    Instead you see ‘corporate tax cut’ and think that’s going to cause a wage-price inflation spiral. Apparently we just can’t win. Why would -increasing- a corporations real income lead to -price increases?- This is the kind of logic that doesn’t make logic to me.</blockquote

    Comment by Cas — November 28, 2017 @ 5:00 pm - November 28, 2017

  38. Eeeexcept one tiny detail, wjich perhaps understandably you have missed.

    Unemployment numbers only include people on thw unemployment dole. So if they are not on the dole, then they are not unemployed, even if they dont have a job. As of Obama’s last year, to my understanding something like 30% of the work-age and -capable people had dropped out of the labor market.

    The job market has been -severely- depressed. It has not recovered, though it is on the way.

    You seem to be assuming that labor force participation will stay low and continue to decrease. More jobs, better pay in thoae jobs, will increase participation rate, especially if we start trimming work capable people from welfare rolls.

    Further, you’re assuming that costs are going to increase more than the increase they will have in profitability. Do you have support for this speculation?

    Comment by Aerinyes — November 28, 2017 @ 5:57 pm - November 28, 2017

  39. Hi Aerinyes,
    Check out U6. It is down were it was during the Clinton boom years (with the high GDP growth we haven’t really seen a lot of since then. Everything points to tight labour market conditions. These conditions in the passed would suggest that there is not a lot of slack in the economy. So, no, I don’t see this as a problem with my analysis.

    You appear to suggest that discouraged workers will come back into the labour market as conditions “boom” after the tax cuts. Yes. But the returning discouraged workers are not going to put that big a dent in the LFPR. Why? Because the main driver of the declining LFPR isn’t discouraged workers per se–it is the aging population. Some folks took early retirement, true. But our society is ageing. I don’t believe that we will see a reversal on the scale you appear to be envisaging. There are very good reasons why our growth rates have fallen, but the Republican tax cuts won’t address much of it, I suspect.

    “Further, you’re assuming that costs are going to increase more than the increase they will have in profitability. Do you have support for this speculation?”

    OK, could you please explain why you think that follows from my analysis, please?

    Comment by Cas — November 29, 2017 @ 10:29 am - November 29, 2017

  40. And Aerinyes,
    U6 is as low as it was when the economy was booming before the Great Recession of 2008. I think conservative commentators here were telling us that things were never so good, folks had jobs, etc, etc. So, what exactly has changed, apart from the rhetoric of “emergency and decline” that is designed to make the case for this tax cut?

    You are being played.

    Comment by Cas — November 29, 2017 @ 10:37 am - November 29, 2017

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