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Posted by V the K at 7:02 pm - February 16, 2018.
Filed under: Gun Control

The response to the mass murder incident in Florida this past week has convinced me more than ever that politicians have no actual interest in solving problems; only in an exploiting them to enhance their own wealth and power.

The best approach to ending mass murder incidents at public school seems pretty straightforward; make schools more secure. At the high school my son went to, there was only one to get into the school during school hours. You had to enter into a secure vestibule, then be buzzed into the main office by a staffer. This simple expedient, coupled with an alert staff, would have prevented what happened in Florida. It also would have worked at Sandy Hook. (Since both cases involved violent headcases who were not supposed to be on school grounds. More on that anon.)

Better security in schools should be utterly noncontroversial. It *will* save lives. It will not infringe on our Constitutional Right to Bear Arms (itself an extension of the fundamental human right to defend yourself.) Yeah, it will cost money; but as we saw last week that… unless the issue is effective border security… Congress has no aversion to spending money.

I get primarily two forms of pushback against this common sense idea.

1. “Well, that won’t work because a lot of schools have multiple entrances and some even have multiple buildings.” 

Well, duh. I never said the solution at my son’s high school was a one-size-solves-everything panacea. Of course, different schools will have different security requirements. But access control, securing the perimeter, equipping classrooms with a “Matt Lauer button” so teachers can lock the door from their desks, and on-site security seem like no-brainers… unless you don’t care about kid safety and are really just trying to advance a gun control agenda.

2. “Children should just be safe in school, we shouldn’t need all that security.” 

This is just vapid emotionalism. Kids shouldn’t die of cancer either, but it happens. These dingbats don’t want to confront life’s harsh realities, they just want to pursue their Utopian fantasies. (In which all the nasty guns have been taken away and everybody gets their own pet unicorn.)

But the point is, these people are not interested in protecting kids. They just want to use dead kids to advance a gun control agenda.

I mean, we sure as hell can’t count on law enforcement to protect us. The FBI didn’t even bother to follow up on a violent headcase who literally posted “I am going to shoot up my high school” under his own name on social media. At least the FBI interviewed Omar Mateen and Esteban Santiago-Ruiz before giving them the all-clear. And, of course, when the Russians told them, “Watch out for those Tsearnev brothers, they’re bad eggs,” the FBI responded by investigating… the Russians.

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What do we pay those people for?



  1. Before the do-golfers closed the insane asylums and our nation had unity, we didn’t NEED armed guards and buzzer gates for our schools.

    Comment by The Gentle Grizzly — February 16, 2018 @ 8:07 pm - February 16, 2018

  2. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    I’m still waiting for a lefty to provide a definition of “common sense gun control” along with some idea of how it would work.

    A Chicago cop was murdered the other day by an ex-con with numerous serious felony convictions. Illinois has fairly restrictive gun laws and, as a felon, the perp is prohibited from going near a gun. Yet, he had a gun and killed after serving mere fractions of sentences for prior crimes (including armed robbery).

    The only solution is confiscation. That won’t work because taking every single firearm and every round of ammo (and components held by hand loaders) would require an army of people to x-ray houses for hidden guns and surveys of land with metal detectors looking for hidden caches of weapons.

    And we’d need gov’t to conduct random searches of any property (including homes) to catch weapons missed on earlier searches. You could be watching TV at 8pm and gov’t would be entitled to show up without notice or warrant for a look around. Or at 3am. Or when you’re not home.

    Seeing as how the gov’t can’t stem the flow of illegal migrants and contraband coming over the border now, walls would have to be built on both borders (and the Alaskan border).

    And even then, guns would fall into the hands of malefactors – I think Kate Steinle was killed by a gun issued to a federal LEO.

    Sweden’s gun laws are restrictive yet, for reasons NOBODY can figure out, gun crime is a worsening problem – not to mention grenade crime.

    Even in the Second Amendment, gun-nut US of A, grenade crime isn’t much of a problem (and I don’t think the NRA has ever lobbied for private ownership of grenades, RPGs, etc).

    Comment by KCRob — February 16, 2018 @ 8:23 pm - February 16, 2018

  3. I have heard everything from, ban all guns to turning schools into fortresses complete with crenulations , armed guards in every room and a moat. I think a more reasonable solution is a hipoint in a handbag,a barreta on a belt or a Ruger in a rucksack. The tactical situation is not that complex, bad guy in front, kids behind me. With a laser equipped pistol, training becomes much easier, any teacher can learn if they want to.(quite a few do) There are school districts around the country where this is happening. Will it prevent every attrocity? No nothing can. Oh, let’s get rid of the stupid no guns allowed signs. The sign should say, faculty of this school is armed.

    Comment by Matthew the Oilman — February 16, 2018 @ 8:29 pm - February 16, 2018

  4. Secure the buildings. Shame any who disagree.

    Comment by Hanover — February 16, 2018 @ 8:44 pm - February 16, 2018

  5. I read Ace’s post at the link and he speaks dismissively of David French’s thoughts on a “gun violence restraining order”. Other than the fact that a maniac won’t be dissuaded from evil by a court order suspending his (or her!) 2A rights, I don’t see Ace’s problem with it. (It wouldn’t have stopped the demon* that shot up Sandy Hook.) It’s worth thinking about, though.

    If someone is a nut and there is evidence of same (and the someone has yet to commit a crime), it seems reasonable that people in the know (e.g. parents or physician or friend) can’t petition to have the nut job placed on the gun background check system “no” list.

    It’s obvious that seeing something and saying something won’t do it; this leaves a “do something” option.

    * I know the perp’s name but don’t feel he’s worth the effort to type it out his cursed name.

    Comment by KCRob — February 16, 2018 @ 9:13 pm - February 16, 2018

  6. V the K, on this:


    I’m not even sure about that — if there were a committed enough political will.

    Consider this: to fund every two well-vetted, trained, armed private security guards posted at the vestibule you allude to, how about getting rid of if only one completely useless school district bureaucrat and/or “secretary” thereof and/or “assistant” thereof?

    I’d bet nobody ever dared doing that sort of math, to begin with.

    “Ignorance is bliss”, they say.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 16, 2018 @ 9:43 pm - February 16, 2018

  7. @6 Darn auto-typo again; I meant to quote:

    Yeah, it will cost money

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 16, 2018 @ 9:45 pm - February 16, 2018

  8. My only concern would be the Feds turning it into a clusterfck by sticking TSA agents in every school. The Feds have a bad habit of confusing “Security” with “high school dropouts groping people.”

    Comment by V the K — February 16, 2018 @ 10:00 pm - February 16, 2018

  9. Government turns into the stinkiest crap anything and everything it touches.

    And with outrageous costs at that, thanks to a looting of the bamboozled (aka: tax payer) — a looting the ever-expansion of which has been set (and is oh so diligently kept) on auto-pilot throughout each and every US “Congress” (cough) “session” (cough, cough).

    That’s all there is to it.

    Six-letter word.

    D E F U N D

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 16, 2018 @ 10:01 pm - February 16, 2018

  10. OT — Happy New Year, by the way:

    “Reaching out”


    Comment by Cyril J. — February 16, 2018 @ 10:10 pm - February 16, 2018

  11. I’ve been to schools with single-access control. Yes, it feels like entering a prison, and yes, it’s likely a very effective way to control access (that’s why prisons do it that way).

    I’ve been convinced for some time that the primary aim of the political class is to perpetuate problems for the reasons cited by others. We are now on our third generation of a perpetual underclass created as a political power base. This isn’t some deranged right-wing conspiracy theory: look around.

    Although I haven’t done a formal analysis (that’s what grad students are for), I’m reasonably convinced that the increase in, and now expectation of, school shootings, cop shootings, and the general disregard for life and property has a positive correlation with the increasing influence of the Culture of Death (aka Democratic Party) the past three decades. The Democratic Party’s essential message is that the individual isn’t responsible for their actions and nothing unpleasant in their life is their fault. When you pound that message relentlessly year after year after year, people are going to start to believe it and act accordingly. I maintain that those kids’ blood is to a large extent on the Democrat’s hands. A case can be made that the Democratic Party is literally killing people. Maybe next time a Democrat starts agitating for gun confiscation, someone should bring that up.

    Comment by Blair Ivey — February 16, 2018 @ 10:48 pm - February 16, 2018

  12. @ The Gentle Grizzly:

    I lived in San Francisco in the mid-80’s not long after the wholesale release of mentally ill persons into ‘the community’. Lots of blame to go around here: Democrats claimed warehousing the mentally ill was ‘undignified’; Republicans wanted to save money.

    Comment by Blair Ivey — February 16, 2018 @ 10:59 pm - February 16, 2018

  13. the general disregard for life and property [and reason] has a positive correlation with the increasing influence of the Culture of Death (aka Democratic Party) the past three decades. The Democratic Party’s essential message is that the individual isn’t responsible for their actions and nothing unpleasant in their life is their fault

    Indeed, and as the freaks become drunk on their trying to ban free speech, of tenured professors included, they won’t even notice they themselves build the coffin (hopefully and long overdue) of their cancerous ideology — after English, the word now spread slowly but surely to the Spanish speaking world:

    Fast forward to 4:20 …

    Que sera, sera.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 16, 2018 @ 11:09 pm - February 16, 2018

  14. Frankly, the control freaks are barking up the wrong amendment. The right to keep and bear arms isn’t the problem.

    If you want to stop these things from happening, repeal the 3rd Amendment. If you had a half dozen USMC leathernecks barracked in this guy’s house, he never would have gotten out the door.

    As for the good ol’ days of high school security, I was a little too young but I think in my siblings’ time they still used to chain the doors to the school during the day and station armed officers throughout. Damn hippies.

    Comment by Sathar — February 16, 2018 @ 11:38 pm - February 16, 2018

  15. In the 45-years (yes, I’m of-a-certain-age) since I was in HS, the primary difference today is the 24/7 cable news cycle and social media. It’s NOT guns, we had plenty. It’s not semi-automatic handguns and rifles, lot’s of people had 1911 Colts and M1 Garands in the closet. It’s not “school security”, the only one patrolling our hallways were the janitors and maintenance people during school hours.

    It’s the damned-media…!!

    “I want to be famous!”

    “I have a manifesto!”

    “I saw it all happen, and…”

    Clamp to on the news coverage. Ban his name, picture and sorry-ass life from coverage, …and the sobbing manipulated witness interviews from the Media.

    Damnatio Memoriae.

    Drop the shooter down the Memory Hole. We don’t speak in the Press about rape victims, do the same for shooters. Just stop. Nothing! End the mass-shooter Media Porn! That’s all it is, pornography. No Vid-phone cuts, especially the thrice-damned continuous-loops of shots being fired! Just stop.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — February 17, 2018 @ 12:13 am - February 17, 2018

  16. Btw, I have the ultimate solution, if anybody’s interested —

    homeschool all the softheads.

    Make “public schools”, school districts, bureaucrat-driven curriculums, etc, relics.

    Allow the people to build and fund strictly private schools, if they so wish, their responsibility to defend them properly with enough deterrent like any other business has to do with precious assets or valued associates.

    The Koreans in the 1992 LA riots had very convincing arguments against the angry mobs that were in 5 or 10 times more numerous, to not allow the latter to loot and burn their businesses to the ground.

    Let the FBI do what they can really handle — like, investigating on unsolved cases of bums who urinated on federal property.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 2:15 am - February 17, 2018

  17. gun control is not what the liberal left wants, it’s gun confiscation. an unarmed citizenry is much easier to tyrannize.

    Comment by salg — February 17, 2018 @ 2:40 am - February 17, 2018

  18. A private school sign could then read something like,

    “Welcome to XYZ School, LLC.

    Please come in peace or be prepared to be turned into ketchup.

    Thank you for your attention.”

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 2:41 am - February 17, 2018

  19. From what I’ve heard, the suspect (whose name shall not be uttered by my lips or typed by my fingers; let him be stricken from the record) averaged about five calls to the cops a year from his mother. Sounds like the fact that he was a rabid dog was known.

    And, pray tell, how exactly does one “mishandle” a school shooter threat? It may sound conspiratorial, but to call it mere incompetence on the part of the FBI strains credulity.

    Comment by Sean L — February 17, 2018 @ 7:55 am - February 17, 2018

  20. @16 There is a distinctive advantage to homeschooling, especially with computer instruction. You can tailor the education to the student, at their pace and ability.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if they did that, and only gathered for extracurricular activities? Yes, they could still be attacked there, but so could shoppers in a ball, or Republicans on a baseball field.

    Comment by Craig Smith — February 17, 2018 @ 10:47 am - February 17, 2018

  21. @20

    Yeah, that’d be a start.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 12:41 pm - February 17, 2018

  22. Cyril, you have a good point. The majority of our school systems use the” Prussian Model” . It was a great system for nineteenth century Prussia, if you need to regiment all of society for war. It requires extremely harsh discipline ,segregation according to sex and other measures no longer applicable in twenty first century United States. These institutions have instead become centers for mass indotrination .( What ever the teachers want) The systems are inefficient and expensive and are wearing out their welcome. But for many parents are needed due to the circumstances of their lives. I would propose Higher Education ( college and universities) be the first place to start!

    Comment by Matthew the Oilman — February 17, 2018 @ 2:16 pm - February 17, 2018

  23. @22

    I’m always right, after paying enough attention to the devil — aka: details.

    That’s the only catch! 🙂

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 2:56 pm - February 17, 2018

  24. @22

    The systems are inefficient and expensive and are wearing out their welcome. But for many parents are needed due to the circumstances of their lives.


    Exactly right.

    That’s the current state of affairs —

    in essence, the absurd 150 or so year old catch 22 legacy of our social do-gooders ruling over us peasants in our “best interests”.

    Hopefully the world wide interwebz are changing the game slowly but surely.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 3:03 pm - February 17, 2018

  25. @22, @23, @24

    School Sucks — The American Way

    By a teacher, 2012 :

    8 minutes long.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 3:23 pm - February 17, 2018

  26. I understand the politicians intend to bulldoze the school. What a great way to feed the murderer’s ego. “They tore down a school because of what I did. I showed them!”

    Comment by V the K — February 17, 2018 @ 3:40 pm - February 17, 2018

  27. @25

    And that’s emphasized at the mark 7:58 and onward in,

    The Story of Our Enslavement


    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 3:42 pm - February 17, 2018

  28. @15

    Guess who agrees with you,

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 4:22 pm - February 17, 2018

  29. If all else fails, we can always follow North Korea’s approach —

    where all school shootings presumably have these three peculiarities to standardized things nicely,

    1) teachers are the ones who get shot;

    2) only after some random inspections about adherence to the curriculum

    3) nobody ever knows

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 6:04 pm - February 17, 2018

  30. @29

    Now beat the DPRK’s genius.

    Ah! What I thought.

    You can’t!

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 17, 2018 @ 6:06 pm - February 17, 2018

  31. I understand the politicians intend to bulldoze the school.

    Just the freshman building, where the indoor carnage occurred. (This is a yuge school, with nearly 4000 students and 14 buildings, IIRC.) This irks me as well, but for different reasons.

    There seems to be a desire in modern society to insulate its members from as much pain and trauma as possible. While that is admirable in a holistic, humanitarian sense, the end result is to stymie the healing of the very conditions which produce that pain and trauma. Erasing the physical evidence of a traumatic event or moment in time doesn’t change history; it simply whitewashes it (see the eradication of Robert E. Lee statuary). The whitewashing or revisioning of history is never a good thing, for reasons which are clear to most GP readers.

    Ironically, the demolition of the original Sandy Hook Elementary School is probably the one exception to the current trend, due to its isolated location from other institutions and the extensive damage done to the interior of the building by the perpetrator. Other locations of horror have approached it differently. Columbine High School in Littleton CO remodeled its original library and cafeteria, but the original building with the same entrances still exist in the current era, much as it did in 1999 when two disaffected students placed it on the map of history. The Century Theatre chain resisted attempts to demolish their location in Aurora CO after the mass shooting in 2012. During the time it was closed, the interior configuration was changed so that the auditoriums were reoriented perpendicular to the original floor plan, but there are films which are being shown tonight on the very spot where people died five-and-a-half years ago. I’ve heard that survivors of the shooting are still unhappy about the decision and vow to never reenter the building again, but that is certainly an understandable choice. If it bothered the majority of the community, the theater wouldn’t still be in business in that location. I commend them for moving forward and thus enabling the surrounding community to also do the same.

    Likewise, there were cries and protests after redevelopment plans for the World Trade Center complex in NYC were unveiled. Comments about the location being “sacred ground” were common (in part by a group columnist Ann Coulter uncharitably but not inaccurately referred to as ‘bitter harpies’ or similar). Yet is there a square foot of Planet Earth on which someone or something has not died a horrific death at some point in time? But plans to move forward and demonstrate that terrorist acts are not respected, particularly on some of the most expensive real estate in the county, are somehow disrespectful. (Nevermind that two humongous memorial reflecting pools sit upon the original footprint of the original towers.)

    The most recent episode of PBS’ American Experience was “The Bombing of Wall Street” (incidentally yet another crime the FBI has been unable to solve), which detailed the eponymous event in 1920. The program pointed out that there are still shrapnel ‘wounds’ in the buildings which remain to this day around the area. Other buildings in the area also have bullet impact scars from other notorious shootouts in the same era. If these incidents happened today, I daresay that there would be cries for all of those buildings to be demolished to spare traumatized passersby from the pain of having to encounter them.

    In five years, there will be no more students who have a first-hand memory of the events at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. In ten years, there will be fewer staff and teachers; and in twenty years likely no one directly affiliated with the school will have a personal memory of the events and it will be yet another footnote in history. Sure, there will likely be a beautiful memorial park on the footprint of the current freshman building, along with an etched stone monument with the names of the fallen—upon which future students not yet born will affix used chewing gum and perhaps a proclamation of teenage love writ in permanent marker; not necessarily out of disrespect but out of a lack of knowledge about history and its impact.

    In the aforementioned Littleton CO there exists, not far from Columbine High School, a memorial walkway dedicated to the events of April 20, 1999. Two years ago it made the local news not for a reminder of its existence, but of its modern day decline and disrepair. Some of the volunteer caretakers pleaded for donations to restore it to an acceptable appearance and a local contractor or two obliged. Parents of some of the victims lamented the state of the memorial. Yet what does this living memorial say about one of the most noted and horrific acts of school violence in modern times? That no one cares? Or simply that, as the ancient saying goes, “time heals all wounds” and that life truly does go on. So it will someday be with the events in Parkland FL which occurred on a rare combined Valentine’s Day and Ash Wednesday in the year 2018. Perhaps that is how it should be.

    Comment by RSG — February 17, 2018 @ 9:05 pm - February 17, 2018

  32. Excellent analysis, RSG. Very true and accurate and profound

    Comment by TADFORD — February 18, 2018 @ 12:23 am - February 18, 2018

  33. “We have met the enemy and he is us” ~ Walt Kelly as voiced by Pogo.

    It wasn’t the video games. It wasn’t the gun. It wasn’t the FBI. It wasn’t fluoride in the water. It was us.

    “PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) — The last piece of legislation President John F. Kennedy signed turns 50 this month: the Community Mental Health Act, which helped transform the way people with mental illness are treated and cared for in the United States.

    Signed on Oct. 31, 1963, weeks before Kennedy was assassinated, the legislation aimed to build mental health centers accessible to all Americans so that those with mental illnesses could be treated while working and living at home, rather than being kept in neglectful and often abusive state institutions, sometimes for years on end.”

    “Few anticipated how quickly President Kennedy’s aspiration of reducing the institutional population by half would be realized. By 1980, the inpatient population at public psychiatric hospitals had declined by 75%. In 2000, approximately 55,000 remained in these institutions, representing less than 10% of those institutionalized just fifty years prior. The shift was especially pronounced among children and youth: by 2009, the institutionalized population had declined by 98%.”

    Pull your heads out of your donkeys, disband the circular firing squads and pay attention. We did it to ourselves.

    Comment by Roy Lofquist — February 18, 2018 @ 1:36 pm - February 18, 2018

  34. Bravo to all who want to muzzle the press when one of these events occurs! It’s absolute stupidity to claim that the guns are the problem and I think even (or possibly “especially”) the most ardent gun-control advocate knows it (the most ardent might see this as one of those crises that shouldn’t be let go to waste rather than as a solvable problem); and the best-intentioned on that side might conceivably admit it but also counter that eliminating the guns, while it doesn’t get at the causes of the shootings, will at least make the shootings more rare.

    The problem is the culture. The problem is the notoriety given to the shooters – the psychology papers written about them, the hushed voices when they’re discussed, the elevation of their crimes to the sin of Lucifer… The shooters become angry deities to be propitiated. What outcast teenage boy doesn’t want people to acknowledge him as powerful?

    But good luck to us, trying to get the press to muzzle themselves. They’ll be all, “The People Have a Right To Know!” and keep on shoving mikes in the faces of traumatized escapees and parents of victims, in their own bid for notoriety. Craven, banal, tedious – the evil of no more than the third circle of Hell. I won’t even give them greed – no more than gluttony.

    It’s not that I think a shooting like this isn’t “news.” But if they’d just report it without pictures or video, absolutely factually, without commentary unless maybe the commentary focused on the personal deficiencies of the shooter, cruel as that might sound for the shooter’s parents to hear after just having been cut off at the knees by the fact that they’d raised a killer, those reports would do much less to encourage the next guy.

    Comment by Jamie L. McArdle — February 18, 2018 @ 4:28 pm - February 18, 2018

  35. I have this beat for blaming the wrong people.

    Gay blames largest GLBT health clinic for not warning him about rimming 3rd world diseases.

    “I looked at him soberly. “Listen, you are one of the largest providers of healthcare to the LGBT community in New York City, maybe the largest, and I think you could be doing more to educate men who have sex with men about sexually transmitted gastrointestinal parasites and the risks of rimming!”…

    Almost as bad as blaming the Atlantis gay cruise ship for people partying next to a dead overdosed body

    Comment by Steve — February 18, 2018 @ 6:09 pm - February 18, 2018

  36. I had not heard of this 3rd world parasite. I guess it’s a good thing I don’t go to the Home Depot Dumpsters for $5 male escorts.

    So here I am, infected with giardia for the second time in my life after having eradicated entamoeba histolytica from my body just months earlier. My boyfriend has also been exposed to both.

    Comment by Steve — February 18, 2018 @ 6:25 pm - February 18, 2018

  37. I have listened to Rush Limbaugh on Fox News Sunday and Tom Gresham on Gun Talk radio, arm the teachers. There is a program called Faster that is doing just that in 18 states. Good Night and God Bless.

    Comment by Matthew the Oilman — February 18, 2018 @ 6:30 pm - February 18, 2018

  38. The Wreck of the Titan: Or, Futility

    is an 1898 novella written by Morgan Robertson.

    The story features the fictional ocean liner Titan, which sinks in the North Atlantic after striking an iceberg.

    The Titan and its sinking have been noted to be very similar to the real-life passenger ship RMS Titanic, which sank fourteen years later.,_or_the_Wreck_of_the_Titan

    Federal Bureau of Investigation

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is the domestic intelligence and security service of the United States, and its principal federal law enforcement agency.

    Motto: Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity (sic)

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 18, 2018 @ 9:06 pm - February 18, 2018

  39. @36

    Bonsoir et Dieu vous blesse.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 18, 2018 @ 9:09 pm - February 18, 2018

  40. It will cost a lot of money. But if there is a will–there is a way. And one way would be to place taxes on handgun sales to help pay for the fixing of this problem.This is only fair and reasonable–guns are used to kill these folks and we want out kids to be safe–so let us tax the implement that is used to kill them. Cigarettes are taxed. So is petroleum. That is your solution for funds right there.

    PS. Cyril J–as much as I have sympathy for your suggestion at #6, the fact is that there are usually a number of schools in a given school district. At two security guards per school per bureaucrat, you are going to have no centralized authority for the school district. Maybe that is a feature rather than a bug for your idea, but I doubt it ends well …

    Comment by Cas — February 19, 2018 @ 10:43 am - February 19, 2018

  41. Not to be contrary or anything, in this instance, as in most recent instances of mass shooting, it was already illegal for the shooter to have the gun, which means the laws were in place…also, law enforcement dropped the ball…and the mental health system could not come through with its tied hands. So, I am not so sure that throwing more laws and more money is the answer…don’t know what the answer is, but fixing what is broken would be a start.

    Comment by TADFORD — February 19, 2018 @ 11:46 am - February 19, 2018

  42. Cas – First, I’d point out that guns and ammo are taxed: sales tax at a minimum. Second, I’d point out that gov’t should prioritize spending, not just add another tax. For example, why are we still spending billions and risking lives in the sh*thole (tm DJT) that is Afghanistan?

    The “debate” is always the same: the lefties hysterically blame the NRA as if its membership (e.g. me) and leadership sponsor mass shootings and that NRA training JROTC members in basic marksmanship and **safety** cause craziness. We on the 2A side are left to (pointlessly) ask how (see my earlier comment) and “why” (should we give up the right of self-defense) because there are some loons? You can still rent a truck even after the NYC bike-path massacre and that unpleasantness in OKC back in the 90s).

    The lefty gun-grabbers don’t offer useful suggestions and will not acknowledge their part in creating the decadent culture we have.

    No one blames the perp in this case or a system whereby someone with 39 police responses to his actions and FBI tip-offs don’t land him on the “no buy” list (there was another recent case where the US military failed to notify the background check system of some guy’s issues).

    Trump’s unorthodox tweets criticizing the system were spot-on. Why don’t we hold these bureaucracies accountable? Remember, the Russian gov’t tipped off the US government about the Boston bombers (you know, the hot-looking guy the Rolling Stone featured on its cover).

    I see that survivors of the shooting are “slamming Trump” in the words of the KC Star. I can’t read that rag but I’m certain no one followed up with “blame him for what, exactly?”.

    The shooter, who should remain nameless, is a bad seed – barking mad. If I were on his jury, I could vote for the death penalty and go home to hubby for a nice night out and a good night’s sleep.

    At the same time, though, I feel bad for him. He’s obviously screwed up and dealt a bad hand. The “system” failed to act on a known threat and I’d guess his time in school was hell on him and his classmates. How many of those slamming Trump bullied and harassed this kid (not blaming the victim – just asking). It’s common sense that if you push hard enough on someone with some serious issues, you’re likely to get pushback.

    If there were common sense, people like him would be institutionalized and treated – hopefully to emerge at some point as useful citizens. But the left, if you recall, emptied the hospitals (not reform them as was needed) deciding that a schizophrenic individual had the right to decide that he wasn’t in need of treatments – that the voices and living under a bridge were a lifestyle choice.

    I have issues with arming school teachers en masse. For one thing, we on the right have a history of (correctly) pointing out the incompetence of the school system and a fair number of teachers… now we’re saying to them “arm up”? I’d be for arming teachers with demonstrated common sense and specialized training (as armed airline pilots go through).

    Comment by KCRob — February 19, 2018 @ 2:51 pm - February 19, 2018

  43. The way to silence Piss Cas on its whole attempt to tax guns out of existence is simple: apply a tax to all women to cover abortion costs.

    Let’s hear Piss Cas argue against that one while we all visualize Sideshow Bob in a field of rakes.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 19, 2018 @ 3:31 pm - February 19, 2018

  44. I guess it’s a good thing I don’t go to the Home Depot Dumpsters for $5 male escorts.

    My local store-locations seems to be always out-of-stock. Are the Male Escorts available for homo home-delivery?

    If a Poll Tax is unconstitutional, why am I taxed (sales tax plus 17% Federal excise tax) to exercise my 2nd Amendment Rights?

    Note: I don’t object to the addl ammo excise-tax that funds the wildlife refuges; but not one penny for the gun-grabbers.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — February 19, 2018 @ 4:51 pm - February 19, 2018

  45. @42

    apply a tax to all women to cover abortion costs

    And/or to cover the costs of any form of female contraception, for that matter.

    That’d be fair, ever since the possibility (read: boon) of DNA testing to uncover, expose, and make liable any unexpected paternity for oh so practical (read: femi-materialistic) modern purposes.

    But then again, don’t hold your breath on the sort of balancing things for the tiniest bit, because if the self-delusional, self-contradictory, power-hungry leftist agenda had any ounce of honesty and morality remaining, we would know by now.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 19, 2018 @ 6:33 pm - February 19, 2018

  46. All of our district schools and the district offices have one door for entry, and must be buzzed into the building.

    I actually think the major issue is media attention. I think people who commit mass murder are enamoured with the idea that they will be famous-even if it’s as a villain.

    I think the 24 hour news cycle makes it worse. The media should create an agreement much like the rape shield one where the name of the murderer is kept secret. Let the investigators investigate but don’t give attention to the killer.

    Comment by Just me — February 19, 2018 @ 6:33 pm - February 19, 2018

  47. NBC and AP said that the unarmed security guard/assistant football coach shielded students with his body “when gunfire broke out.” If that means when the shooting first started, then he may have been the first victim, or one of the first. Which means that, if he had been armed, he might have been able to take out the killer before any innocent victims were shot. Or, at least, the death toll might have been far lower.

    @41, I’ve never heard anyone advocate arming teachers en masse. AFAIK, every advocate of the idea (Massad Ayoob, Mike McDaniel, the NRA, Newt Gingrich) has said that it should be voluntary, and most of them have said that the volunteers should have mandatory training and testing.

    The libtard sociology teacher and the nitwit English teacher don’t want to carry weapons, fine. They don’t have to. But that’s no reason why the civics teacher (a retired LAPD SWAT cop) and the history teacher (who was in the USAF Security Forces, and who is now a champion in IDPA competition) should not be armed. (IIUC, the guard/coach was a Marine Corps veteran.)

    And, with the staff all in civilian clothes and with their weapons discreetly concealed, the would-be mass murderer could not know who was armed and who was not. It would be like playing Russian roulette.

    IIUC, after the Maalot massacre, the Israelis began having armed volunteer guards in their schools. Since then, there have been no mass shootings of Israeli school children, except for one tragic incident during a field trip to a park near the Jordanian border. At the request of the Jordanian government, the Israeli chaperones were unarmed. Obviously, the Israelis should have either ignored the request and brought their carbines with them, or called off the trip. But hindsight is always 20/20.

    Comment by Tom — February 19, 2018 @ 6:41 pm - February 19, 2018

  48. “Well, that won’t work because a lot of schools have multiple entrances and some even have multiple buildings.”

    A new library was recently built in my hometown. It’s a two-story building with two public entrances and several non-public entrances along with a couple of additional egress doors to allow for code compliance and to satisfy the bureaucratic demands of the host municipality. All of the doors which are designed for outside entry have electronic NFC card locks, along with the traditional keylocks (save for the public entrances with automatic doors). In addition, the security system covers 90% of the public space and the majority of the staff area (much to the chagrin of some of the staff).

    Even after the facility is closed to the public, staff or others who may be locked inside the building can readily see who might be outside attempting to get in—if not directly via the glass doors and windows then via images from the security cameras, even if they already have their own access keycards.

    A software upgrade would allow for such features as facial recognition and the resulting ability to sound alarms or restrict access based on positive identification. Not too long ago, this type of system would only be feasible at places like the CIA or NSA headquarters, or at the J.Edgar Hoover FBI Building or perhaps the US Embassy in places like Kabul. Now it’s available at everyday venues in small towns in rural America.

    The director has a flat screen monitor in his office and during his working hours he has a composite image from all the security cameras on in the background. One day, a few months after opening, he noticed excessive motion out of the corner of his eye. He looked up to notice that the image coming from the quiet reading room (meant for adults, or at least people who act like adults should) showed some older youts jumping up and down on the furniture. He was able to dash across the building and diplomatically do a what-the-fark-do-you-arseholes-think-you’re-doing smackdown while the act was still in progress. This had an impact beyond the obvious. Firstly, it hopefully got across the point that behavior standards aren’t something that is just printed in a handbook or on a boring sign somewhere. If you violate them, you will be called on it. (Something, I would add, which was not often done in the prior location of this establishment, lest it crush their fragile little spirits.) Secondly, it telegraphed the message that You Are Being Watched, even if it is not readily apparent or obvious.

    The point of this little story is that the technology is currently available and in use in places which are designed to be open and welcoming to all. If it can be done in a space which is designed to be easily accessible, there should be no reason why it can’t be done in locations which should be inaccessible and largely closed to outsiders. It could, in my estimation, also be done in a way in which an educational facility doesn’t look or appear to be a prison complex. You also wouldn’t need to have glorified mall cops operating as “school resource officers” behind a bank of video monitors like that portrayed on commercials for home security systems. All it would take in the majority of instances are regular staff members who have composite security camera images visible on an office monitor which is occasionally glanced at, along with software which can detect excessive motion and perhaps bad actors already known to the powers that be—as the shooter was.

    There is no reason that a campus as large as Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shouldn’t have student IDs which double as access keycards to buildings. This relatively simple action would have prevented last week’s shooter from doing his act of carnage from anywhere except outside of the building. This security measure alone would not have prevented a hostile act from making the national news, but would have prevented quicker identification of the perpetrator and likely have prevented his initial escape from the premises.

    The key barrier to implementing these types of security measures is the cost, in which retrofitting existing buildings can be 2x-3x the cost of installation in new construction. But it’s something which is doable and can have a profound impact, unlike the security theater measures taken after the events of September 2001. Also unlike the latter, it does nothing to restrict everyday citizens constitutional rights. It’s a win-win solution for all involved—except for those who are intent on just being gun grabbers.

    Comment by RSG — February 19, 2018 @ 7:11 pm - February 19, 2018

  49. Btw, this is a mild version of what gun shop owners have to deal with these days:

    An SJW Thing Walks in a Gun Store…

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 19, 2018 @ 7:42 pm - February 19, 2018

  50. @43, I think Steve must have been kidding about the $ 5 Home Depot dumpster escorts, I certainly hope so anyway.

    Comment by James — February 19, 2018 @ 7:44 pm - February 19, 2018

  51. An SJW Thing Walks in a Gun Store…

    First off, it’s amazing that there’s still an operational gun shop in someplace like Olympia WA, which is basically an underrated Beserkley and a place that hopes to be Seattle when it grows up. Second, it’s kind of like having an abortion clinic in rural Mississippi—every day must be a struggle to survive, unmolested.

    Comment by RSG — February 19, 2018 @ 8:40 pm - February 19, 2018

  52. The entire west coast is becoming like an authoritarian state seriously!

    Comment by pawfurbehr — February 19, 2018 @ 9:00 pm - February 19, 2018

  53. @51

    That one I found amusing because just totally deranged and mostly harmless.

    Loved the guy’s matter-of-factly terseness…

    “Mmm.. not even sure” (gender?)

    “… dunno, about 20”

    “… about 6 foot”

    “… ‘heavy’ ”

    etc 😀

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 19, 2018 @ 10:41 pm - February 19, 2018

  54. “… mostly harmless”

    Mmm… I spoke too fast.

    What happened before that and made him to turn the camera on is less funny:

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 19, 2018 @ 10:50 pm - February 19, 2018

  55. Clicked on the link. I heard him mention Evergreen College. What a disgrace of a college. It should be shut down!

    Comment by pawfurbehr — February 20, 2018 @ 7:30 am - February 20, 2018

  56. Hi KCRob,
    I share your frustration about this situation. I find it interesting though that on the one hand you argue that the shooter is “barking mad” and on the other, should be executed–even though his madness would argue for diminished responsibility. I say this–not as a gotcha–but as a way to point out what is an apparent tension in the argument that mentally ill people and tracking them is the number one way to deal with this issue. That is Trump’s argument–and it comes straight from the NRA and Republican views on this issue. Maybe he is right, but I don’t think so. It will certainly help to crackdown on this issue–but a little weirdness does not madness make. People who have no criminal record like the LA shooter are not going to register as a problem, and thus be denied. He got his guns legally.The private sale loophole still exists (though I know that the NRA hates this term) as far as I know.

    Hi North Dallas Thirty,
    “apply a tax to all women to cover abortion costs”
    So, Dallas North Thirty asserts that his example is a slam dunk–OK, next time you pull a 9mm Browning out of your vagina, North Dallas Thirty, I am willing to talk about taxing women for their abortions.

    Comment by Cas — February 20, 2018 @ 10:15 am - February 20, 2018

  57. Evergreen State College is a 4 four day care center, just like Hampshire College in Assachusetts.

    Comment by James — February 20, 2018 @ 10:51 am - February 20, 2018

  58. Casimirov. How did a non-student walk onto a high school campus with a rifle and enter into a building and pull a fire alarm?

    You and your Fascist friends want to leave me and mine defenseless just like you and your Fascist friends left those people defenseless.


    Comment by Lobogris — February 20, 2018 @ 2:37 pm - February 20, 2018

  59. Hi Comrade Lobogris,
    How you get your claim from what I said I have no idea. And as for “fascist”, this says it best.

    Comment by Cas — February 20, 2018 @ 3:11 pm - February 20, 2018

  60. Oh, how cute.


    Comment by Lobogris — February 20, 2018 @ 3:48 pm - February 20, 2018

  61. @56: Cas – I’m OK with the death penalty in this case unless there’s hard evidence of disease (I think the UT shooter back in the 60s turned out to have a brain tumor). The murderer in this case seems to be aware of what he did and the consequences- so “barking mad” may be an opinion on what he did, not a diagnosis.

    I am happy to see your concern with the idea of the government tracking the mentally ill. Given the craziness of these times it’s not that far-fetched to see the government setting the bar on illness all over the place to achieve “diversity” or whatever.

    I can remember when Ted Kennedy was put on the no-fly list. He got the error taken care of when his office called Tom Ridge (then Sec DHS). Most of us can’t call Cabinet secretaries to take care of bureaucratic snafus. (Obligatory opinion that putting Ted on the “no drive” list would be appropriate.)

    I’m not sure what can be done about the “private sale loophole”. We’ve had little success in stopping people buying/selling drugs, stolen property, children – you name it.

    The bottom line is that there are evil and/or crazy people that will commit atrocities. Even an totalitarian states like NK, there are people that commit crimes.

    My main irritation (see first comment) is the utter tedium of the “debate”. I mean, why are these people blaming Trump? If they want to point the finger, there’s the FBI and local law-enforcement.

    As we so often hear after a terrorist attack (here or in Europe or Australia), the subject was “known to the authorities”.

    Comment by KCRob — February 20, 2018 @ 6:25 pm - February 20, 2018

  62. @61

    The same authorities who will never, ever, miss to find you —

    to make sure you get a chance to know you owe them… for that parking ticket.

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 20, 2018 @ 6:58 pm - February 20, 2018

  63. Public transit (say, buses) in the Bay area, CA vs Raleigh, NC

    Bay area: filthy buses, almost no route ever if only 50% on time; some drivers treat you like you’re an unexpected annoyance to pick up at stops they don’t like;

    Raleigh: ok buses, WiFi, USB connectors, and out of the 4 different routes I happened to use so far (commute necessities) I was amazed to guess they’re over 90% on time; almost clockwork or I was incredibly lucky; you can track the individual vehicles location *real time*; courteous and patient drivers

    Bay area standard fare (one way): anywhere between $2 and $2.50 depending on carrier ($2.25 for AC transit)

    Raleigh standard fare (one way): $1.25, flexible transfert with $0.75 units

    Progressive cities are such a tasteless farce, it has ceased to be funny long ago (8 years in my case).

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 20, 2018 @ 7:21 pm - February 20, 2018

  64. ^ sorry, wrong thread

    Comment by Cyril J. — February 20, 2018 @ 7:29 pm - February 20, 2018

  65. Well, Lobogris, the question that needs asking is why you think I am a fascist. Or did I misunderstand your meaning here?

    And KCRob,
    You bet I worry about the government having more power to track people. A lot of the solutions pointing to MORE surveillance and pattern recognition software don’t exactly fill me with a sense of hope as to our basic liberties …

    Comment by Cas — February 21, 2018 @ 6:16 am - February 21, 2018

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