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  1. Interesting. And what of GOProud if they do put that foot forward?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 24, 2010 @ 8:14 am - August 24, 2010

  2. What is a conservative gay agenda? I do not ask this in a disrespectful manner, but with sincerity. I suppose I naively wish we could just have a conservative agenda because I am losing track of how many groups there are in this race.

    I really wish I could like Log Cabin, but they invited my nemisis (granted she does not know she is my nemisis) Meghan McCain to just bash Republicans, as did they for a few years, so I completely tuned them out to being irrelevent. Hopefully you are right and they are heading in a more sound direction.

    Comment by Holly — August 24, 2010 @ 9:20 am - August 24, 2010

  3. Trying to get gays and lesbians (and bisexuals and transgenders) to vote Republican is a fool’s errand. No self-respecting homo would be part of an organization which despises them.

    Comment by steve — August 24, 2010 @ 9:47 am - August 24, 2010

  4. Wow Steve, thank you for your inspirational words. I suppose I am not a self-respecting homo. I feel so much more enlightened now. Seriously dude, why the hell do you come here just to be an ass?

    Comment by Holly — August 24, 2010 @ 9:56 am - August 24, 2010

  5. Holly,

    First, I applaud your thoughtful comments. Second, I am straight and I wonder the same thing:

    What is a conservative gay agenda?

    I oppose gay marriage and I am very wary of the idea that the military mission would be enhanced by dropping DADT.

    I am not a homophobe in the wing-nut use of the term. I am a Christian who hates the sin but loves the sinner. There is no place for me to learn or rethink my opinions on any gay left site. They are just a bunch of hate monkeys with delusions of grandeur.

    Ergo, I take the gay conservative agenda as being one of helping to bridge the divide (to the extent there is any) between the human who happens to be gay and the human who happens to be straight.

    The gay political agenda is liberal by definition. I accept that and many people on this site respect that I am opposed to it. Nonetheless, I believe adults can always act as adults with good will and honest differences.

    The Levi, Little Boots, Serenity types are amazing prototypes of bigotry and closed minded piety salesmen. They reflect what they say they hate the most.

    Comment by heliotrope — August 24, 2010 @ 10:18 am - August 24, 2010

  6. I tend to think that any agenda that is harmful to America is also harmful to gays, though I can see that Steve disagrees. So in Steve’s eyes, as long as a politician pays lip service to whatever Steve sees as “gay issues,” that politician is AOK. Whatever, Steve.

    But Steve does seem to have an irreversible belief that Republicans hate gays. No matter what warm and welcoming reception gay conservatives get at any conservative gathering, Steve is unconvinced. So nice to have a position that relieves Steve of any need to think or ponder or reconsider his own perceptions! And as a bonus, Steve has no need to defend or reconsider his own ultra-liberal beliefs, no matter how harmful to [hateful homophobic] America. Wow, win-win!

    (Has anyone pointed out to Steve and his like-minded buds that Obama the Great opposes gay marriage? Or that O the G is a Democrat? Eeewww, cognitive dissonance!)

    Comment by Polly — August 24, 2010 @ 11:27 am - August 24, 2010

  7. Holly, that’s a great question — and I’ll try to get to it when I have time to offer a thoughtful response. Busy editing a chapter for my dissertation today.

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — August 24, 2010 @ 11:47 am - August 24, 2010

  8. No self-respecting homo would be part of an organization which despises them.

    But of course they do. They consistently vote for the liberals every election. Gay Inc. is always shat on by liberals and they keep opening their wallets for more punishment.

    Now THAT’S self-loathing. Why do you hate yourself so much, Steve? What did your father do to you?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — August 24, 2010 @ 1:06 pm - August 24, 2010

  9. Dan-

    Did Mr. Cooper answer why he actively and aggressively supported an anti-gay GOP Congressional candidate over gay Republican Matthew Berry in the VA Primary?

    Comment by Bruce (GayPatriot) — August 24, 2010 @ 2:49 pm - August 24, 2010

  10. Bruce, the issue didn’t come up.

    Comment by B. Daniel Blatt — August 24, 2010 @ 3:10 pm - August 24, 2010

  11. @Heliotrope: “The Levi, Little Boots, Serenity types are amazing prototypes of bigotry and closed minded piety salesmen. They reflect what they say they hate the most.”
    First,Helio, you are not the only Christian on this blog. Perhaps you are the only bigoted and close-minded one. As a matter of fact, do you really think your behavior and lack of respect for others is a good witness?

    Why is it that so many people like you use the hackneyed phrase “love the sinner but hate the sin”?
    What is your purpose in even being on this blog? Is it for thoughtful and informative debate?

    Comment by man — August 24, 2010 @ 3:58 pm - August 24, 2010

  12. he said log Cabin need to “resynchronize” with the GOP… that all conservatives are “on the same page” with a focus on jobs and the economy, standing up to the big-spending policies of the incumbent Administration…

    I smell (in a good way) the hand of GOProud, i.e. the influence of competition in this particular “marketplace”.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 24, 2010 @ 4:36 pm - August 24, 2010

  13. P.S. While I definitely support gay marriage and oopposed Bush’s FMA, I will always consider LCR National’s implicit support of Kerry in 2004 to be its worst hour, a complete disgrace.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — August 24, 2010 @ 4:38 pm - August 24, 2010

  14. man,

    They use the phrase because that is what the Bible says. I was not offended by what “heliotrope” said, and instead rather appreciated his honesty, even if he used some rhetoric that I would not have used.

    Do you take issue with his description of liberals or the fact that he disagrees with homosexuality? If the former, you have the right to be offended of course. If it is the latter, you also have the right to be offended if you want, but if you are gay, you really are going to need to be thicker skinned to survive in this world. He disagrees with homosexuality…and? His position is no different than my family, does that make them bigoted as well just because they disagree? Is disagreement a new form of bigotry? Has the definition of bigotry changed since the last time I looked it up? Was there hatred and complete intolerance in what “heliotrope” wrote? Intolerant to liberals maybe, but homosexuals, I honestly do not think so. To be bigoted and intolerant is a blind hatred against another for a perceived difference (seemingly fitting for the liberal gay community and their blind hatred for gay conservatives and conservatives in general). Disagreement does not equate to hatred. If merely disagreeing with someone is now bigotry, I suppose you would be bigoted against him as well. Can we raise the level of debate so that we can all find a common ground to move forward on or must we be stuck in an emotional state of semantics?

    Comment by Holly — August 24, 2010 @ 4:48 pm - August 24, 2010

  15. ILoveCapitalism,

    Cynically, I think the only reason the Log Cabins are “retooling” so to speak is that GoProud has proved their irrelevance and now they are scurrying to rehabilitate from destructing.

    Comment by Holly — August 24, 2010 @ 4:56 pm - August 24, 2010

  16. “What is happening to the GOP? First our elected officials tire of bashing gays and now our pundits? Perhaps Republicans are beginning to see the writing on the wall. Public opinion is changing rapidly in favor of gay marriage rights. In just 10 years gay marriage has become legal in 10 countries, 5 U.S. States and the District of Columbia. A just released CNN poll found half of all U.S. citizens now support gay marriage and Columbia researcher Suzanne Goldberg reported on CNN that ‘research indicates younger people are beginning to see sexual orientation as a benign variation”. Even the Tea Party has generally sat on the sideline on social issues, preferring to focus on matters of economics and less government.

    “The religious right may be having a conniption, but younger Republicans increasingly appear to believe that opposing gay equality is inconsistent with a belief in increased liberty and smaller government. Although the religious right will continue to be a strong presence in the GOP for years to come, changing demographics are not on the side of anti-gay forces and the GOP appears to be awakening to this reality.”

    Conservative columnist David Frum, in an essay titled GOP Drops Fight Against Gay Rights

    Comment by rusty — August 24, 2010 @ 4:59 pm - August 24, 2010

  17. What is a conservative gay agenda?

    I often see this “why do we have “gay” conservatives, why can’t we just have conservatives” line of questioning on gay topics.

    I’d counter with: Why do we have Mama Grizzlies?

    The answer to both is that Conservatives need to proselytize to certain groups, and part of being a “gay conservative” is being conservative to gays. In my experience, being conservative to gays is more important than being gay to conservatives, but that may be a product of my geography than anything else.

    Comment by DoDoGuRu — August 24, 2010 @ 5:31 pm - August 24, 2010

  18. Gay Republican = Jewish Nazi.

    Comment by steve — August 24, 2010 @ 5:43 pm - August 24, 2010

  19. Holly, the quote “love the sinner but hate the sin” is not in the Bible, as you claim.
    It’s a quote from the Roman philosopher Seneca.

    Comment by man — August 24, 2010 @ 5:50 pm - August 24, 2010

  20. man (#11) asks:

    do you really think your behavior and lack of respect for others is a good witness?

    Score one for you, man. I have given up trying to suffer fools gladly. I have spent a life prodding students to learn while not bruising their fragile, developing egos. But then I started encountering a growing flood of those who will argue endlessly without substance, logic, care or respect on any shifting, morphing topic of their choosing. And, if they are forcefully confronted, they go all to pieces and threaten and bleat like sheep.

    So, I represent my true opinions and views without varnish or camouflage. You question whether by “behavior” and “lack of respect” for others is a good witness? Good question. I do not respect genital mutilation, stoning women, executing gays, abortion on demand, state killing for small crimes, and a long list of other choices and behaviors. Must I respect the folks who do this stuff in order to be a Christian and a good witness?

    Here is something for you to really get your rockets firing: I suspect that if liberal parents to be were to be told their little mass of cells was likely to be gay, most of them would abort it for that reason alone. How is that for tossing a crass, disrespectful stinkbomb into your little nest of politically correct comfort and social justice?

    Comment by heliotrope — August 24, 2010 @ 5:52 pm - August 24, 2010

  21. it’s always amazing when you toss something into google:

    heliotrope. . .

    Hey guys, I have a question I’m hoping someone, somewhere, could help me sort out. I was recently flipping through Lexa Rosean’s lovely book, The Encyclopedia of Magickal Ingredients, when I made note of the following in reference to heliotrope [Heliotropium spp.]: “This flower is…associated with homosexual mystery cults. It makes an excellent gay love formula. Add the flowers to the bathwater before you go out clubbing”

    http://tribes.tribe.net/gaypaganism/thread/428c17c7-8cca-4bef-9590-77d9419a20ce

    Comment by rusty — August 24, 2010 @ 6:21 pm - August 24, 2010

  22. Heliotrope. Thanks for your reply. I regret I showed my frustration for personal attacks when people disagree, and further regret falling into the same trap.
    Like the poor, fools will always be with us.
    I’d like to think these types of blogs can serve the purpose of honest intellectual interaction, and maybe disagreement, without getting personal. As a gay Christian man, I support SS marriage for constitutional reasons. I regret that before I came out to myself, I hadn’t really given much thought to the issue. Christians of good faith are not all in agreement on the issue, so mutual respect is called for.
    Yep, I agree many so-called liberals are just as homophobic as so-called conservatives. I also suspect a number of persons participating in this blog are not honestly interested in an intellectual discussion.

    Comment by man — August 24, 2010 @ 6:29 pm - August 24, 2010

  23. man,

    Again, semantics. You did not address anything I said. The Bible says God Himself loves His child but hates sin because it separates the individual from God, which is the idea of loving the sinner but hating the sin because of its consequences.

    steve,

    You are an angry, bitter and hateful person. You are intellectually void and your comments are the purest form of blatant bigotry. While the rest of us actually debate, you can go to your preferred corner and masturbate to your own musings.

    Comment by Holly — August 24, 2010 @ 6:37 pm - August 24, 2010

  24. but then SNOPES hit on Love the Sinner Hate the Sin

    It’s actually from St. Augustine. His letter 211 (c. 424) contains the phrase Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum, which translates roughly as “With love for mankind and hatred of sins.”

    The phrase has become more famous expressed as “Love the sinner but hate the sin” or “Hate the sin and not the sinner” (the latter form appearing in Mohandas Gandhi’s 1929 autobiography).

    http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/32/t/000471/p/1.html

    Comment by rusty — August 24, 2010 @ 6:42 pm - August 24, 2010

  25. man,

    I read your response to, heliotrope, and I respect what you said.

    Comment by Holly — August 24, 2010 @ 6:43 pm - August 24, 2010

  26. man,

    Kudos! I think we could be good adult sparring partners on many issues. I am conservative, well grounded and very tolerant. If I go off my nut, I can appreciate being called up short.

    I doubt that I can change your opinions, because all debate is based on the agreement to disagree. Those who call themselves moderates really just want to compromise and make it all go away without doing the hard work of sorting out the differences and molding an accommodation.

    When I was a kid, gays were picked on like some sort of freak class. I can not imagine anything that would improve our world by a return to those days. Naturally, the vanguard of gays who pushed the society to deal with the issue paid a great price. I regret that. But I really believe that we have arrived at a place where the issues which confront gays are rather minor to past issues of brutal bigotry.

    In no way do I believe that gays will gain a lick of “respect” in the terms they dream about if they are able to get traditional marriage redefined.

    We can argue that in civil terms or I can just be labeled a jerk and a homophobe and end the whole thing.

    Comment by heliotrope — August 24, 2010 @ 8:32 pm - August 24, 2010

  27. ” The Bible says God Himself loves His child but hates sin because it separates the individual from God, which is the idea of loving the sinner but hating the sin because of its consequences.”

    LIAR:

    If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.(Leviticus 20:13 KJV)

    Comment by JS — August 24, 2010 @ 10:00 pm - August 24, 2010

  28. “So, I represent my true opinions and views without varnish or camouflage. ”

    We know its YOU, who else could have been?

    Comment by JS — August 24, 2010 @ 10:01 pm - August 24, 2010

  29. “I was impressed that he said log Cabin need to “resynchronize” with the GOP.”

    Shows how easily impressionable (and gullible) you are Dan.

    LOL, “resynchronizing” what does that mean?

    LOL What a joke… I was rolling on the floor when I read that…

    Thanks for the daily laughs I get Dan, keep it coming! LOL

    Comment by JS — August 24, 2010 @ 10:10 pm - August 24, 2010

  30. My problem with him and with so many gay politicos (liberal and conservative) is that they all seem have big (no , huge) egos and envision themselves as big-time people. They often just seem to be using the varous gay politcal organizations for their own self-serving purposes. They often seem to be largely self-appointed mucky-mucks. I have yet to meet any Log Cabin leader whom I could call modest. All they do is braga about their “high level” activities and attend very expensive dinners. But who am I to say that? I’m only an inconsequential, quiet, gay conservative with just one vote.

    Comment by Fred — August 24, 2010 @ 11:49 pm - August 24, 2010

  31. Who was the Political Director of Log Cabin during the non-endorsement of Bush? Oh that’s right, none other than John Edwards’, Planned Parenthood’s, and GOProud’s very own Chris Barron. I don’t think Barron and his sidekick, who together redefine pompous self-promotion, should be lecturing anyone on “real” conservatism.

    Comment by Sonny — August 24, 2010 @ 11:57 pm - August 24, 2010

  32. JS- There is a ton of literature published by evangelical Christians which will give the “other side” of the debate about what the Bible really says about homosexuality. Just like liberals with global warming, you may not even be aware that there is a debate. I challenge You to do some research and educate yourself, doing so with an open mind.

    Comment by Eddie — August 25, 2010 @ 12:04 am - August 25, 2010

  33. “You to do some research and educate yourself, doing so with an open mind.”

    And I’m the one who needs an open mind:

    “I oppose gay marriage and I am very wary of the idea that the military mission would be enhanced by dropping DADT.”
    “In no way do I believe that gays will gain a lick of “respect” in the terms they dream about if they are able to get traditional marriage redefined.”
    “The gay political agenda is liberal by definition.”
    - Heliotrope

    I know there is a debate going on. I’ve already done years of research and political analysis, and this is one area where the HYPOCRISY is unbearable for me, how much more do you think I could do that would be sufficient enough for you? Please direct your concerns to your fellow “cons” on here. Good luck. LOL.

    Comment by JS — August 25, 2010 @ 12:31 am - August 25, 2010

  34. I’ve already done years of research and political analysis, and this is one area where the HYPOCRISY is unbearable for me, how much more do you think I could do that would be sufficient enough for you?

    Whose hypocrisy?

    You support and endorse bans on gay-sex marriage.

    You endorse and support calling gays and lesbians filthy, among other things.

    You are in complete agreement with the death penalty for gay and lesbian people.

    So since you support and endorse all of these things in the name of liberalism, the gay and lesbian community, and your Barack Obama and his Obama Party base, what exactly are you criticizing?

    Meanwhile, since gay and lesbian liberals like you are rapists and child molesters who adopt children for the sole purpose of whoring them out online, why should we respect your behavior?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — August 25, 2010 @ 1:49 am - August 25, 2010

  35. So since you support and endorse all of these things in the name of liberalism, the gay and lesbian community, and your Barack Obama and his Obama Party base, what exactly are you criticizing?

    LOL Simply, wow. I don’t know how a normal person would react to this gibberish.

    Comedic, yes. Serious, no.

    Try again, this time put some more thought into WHAT I REALLY SAY. LOL

    NDT: Strike 1, you have two more chances…

    (PS maybe quoting me actually saying what you claim I said might help otherwise you prove my suspicions that gay cons are delusional and some of them may be suffering from some form of metal illness/disorder, I know that might sound harsh but I know from experience with gay friends who are Republicans, so if anything I feel sorry for you.)

    Comment by JS — August 25, 2010 @ 4:55 am - August 25, 2010

  36. “Meanwhile, since gay and lesbian liberals like you are rapists and child molesters who adopt children for the sole purpose of whoring them out online, why should we respect your behavior?”

    This has got to be the most saddest, delusional comments and a new low for NDT and Gay Patriot.

    Accusing strangers (me) of being child molesters (without evidence) is a really degrading and embarrassing for the person doing the accusing… and using the issue of child rape to try (pathetically) to prove a political point. You have issues NDT. I recommend that you see a psychologist right away.

    Now I’m not sure if I am to laugh because laughing at people with emotional/mental problems is disrespectful.

    I hope you get the necessary help you need NDT,

    Take care okay?

    Comment by JS — August 25, 2010 @ 5:14 am - August 25, 2010

  37. Poor poor JS,

    Maybe he should look up the concept of hypocracy before he accuses others of it.

    Comment by The_Livewire — August 25, 2010 @ 6:37 am - August 25, 2010

  38. Whew! I suppose that if JS opposed the war in Iraq, I now have the right, by his rules to call him a hypocrite and accuse him of not being open minded.

    I suppose that if JS favors gay marriage, but opposes plural marriage, I do not have the right to question his open mind or suggest he is toying around the edges of being hypocritical.

    I suppose that when your mind is made up, you no longer have to be confused by the facts or accept different ways of understanding.

    But I am mostly surprised that my saying the gay agenda is liberal by definition makes me a hypocrite and and not open minded.

    When I said that I had reached the point of no longer pretending that I suffer fools gladly, I meant it. JS is flailing away and landing blows on his own chin.

    You really must pity the one who is so blinded to emotions that he can not accept dissent.

    As for Leviticus 20:13 KJV, I will leave JS in charge of leading that charge as the fundamentalist who needs only six words to launch a crusade.

    Comment by heliotrope — August 25, 2010 @ 9:11 am - August 25, 2010

  39. What NDT is doing is showing the generalization fallacy.

    Comment by NYAlly — August 25, 2010 @ 2:18 pm - August 25, 2010

  40. “Maybe he should look up the concept of hypocracy before he accuses others of it.”

    Sure here is an example:

    As for Leviticus 20:13 KJV, I will leave JS in charge of leading that charge as the fundamentalist who needs only six words to launch a crusade.

    The bible is pretty clear on what needs to be done. Yet heliotrope the hypocrite disowns his/her own bible.

    And Helio just because I point out your hypocrisy doesn’t mean I endorse it.

    Comment by JS — August 25, 2010 @ 3:49 pm - August 25, 2010

  41. “I suppose that if JS favors gay marriage, but opposes plural marriage,”

    I don’t oppose it. I think that in most cases it might better for children since the child will have more multiple parents to depend on.

    But I’m not losing my sleep over it.

    Comment by JS — August 25, 2010 @ 4:10 pm - August 25, 2010

  42. JS,

    I do not do scripture battles with the informed, the ill informed or people of your attention span. That is just a personal rule. So, you may read what you will into my comment about how you have presented yourself as the final word on the Bible.

    I am happy to hear that you have come out in favor of communal parenting, as it fits my notion of how pliable your moral relevancy syndrome has made you.

    So, you favor another major turn in the structure of traditional marriage. Your foolish consistency perfectly feeds the hobgobblin of your (….) mind. Now why don’t you move on to man/boy marriage and score a perfect trifecta?

    The more you reveal yourself the more predictable you show yourself to be. Imagine that.

    Comment by heliotrope — August 25, 2010 @ 4:32 pm - August 25, 2010

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