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  1. Well done, Bruce! I always enjoy it so when you take the gloves off, and you seem more than happy to do just that with increasing frequency these days.

    As for the “p*ssy b*tch” and how his pre-trial detention conditions, I’d encourage him, as well as his handful of sycophantic moonbats to consider asking for a transfer to either Cook County Jail, or the Men’s Central Detention Facility in Los Angeles County.

    I’m quite certain he’d find his present situation far more tolerable.

    Comment by Eric in Chicago — December 16, 2010 @ 12:17 pm - December 16, 2010

  2. “I wouldn’t have committed treason against my country while wearing the uniform cuz my boyfriend dumped me. He’s a pissy bitch.” ROTFLMAO!!! That is a classic one right there.

    What do we do with Manning? Firing Squad.

    Comment by Jenn of the Jungle — December 16, 2010 @ 12:31 pm - December 16, 2010

  3. *nods* Firing squad, preferably to be carried out in Berkley.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 16, 2010 @ 12:39 pm - December 16, 2010

  4. Greenwald can go choke on an AIDS infested cock for all I care. Manning’s been charged with serious stuff, and the more that comes out, the military is probably more worried that some prisoner will kill him, which admittedly, is probable.

    Bottom line is that when people are more worried about the hurt feelings of a prisoner – in a war – than the damage it might cause to soldiers or civilians, then we’ve already lost.

    Comment by Nick — December 16, 2010 @ 12:45 pm - December 16, 2010

  5. Greenwald declares this to be true:

    Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private ….. has been detained …. under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews …. establishes [sic] that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.

    (…) Manning has been a model detainee …. declared from the start to be a “Maximum Custody Detainee,” …. which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.

    Oh.

    There is much too much torture chamber stated as fact in this diatribe for my sensibilities. Frankly, I am far more interested in a relentless investigation of how a U.S. Army Private had access to these classified documents and was able to transmit them to WiliLeaks.

    I wonder if Greenwald would be so quick to defend the military people who positioned Manning to be able to do his treason?

    I am also curious about the connection between Manning, his treason and his anti-DADT activism. Are we cooking up a new version of the Twinkie defense? Did Bradley so hate the military for DA/DT that he snapped when his lover left him and lashed out at the military because the policy (DA/DT) made him do it? If so, it would not seem to be a move forward for gays in the military.

    Comment by Heliotrope — December 16, 2010 @ 12:52 pm - December 16, 2010

  6. “What To Do With An American Traitor?”

    ————–

    There’s no reason to treat him any different than anyone else.

    Kill him! By his own admission he is guilty of treason.
    .

    Comment by gastorgrab — December 16, 2010 @ 1:04 pm - December 16, 2010

  7. From what I understand, Glenn Greenwald has been holding at least some of his own Sock Puppets in detention without charges, at least since they were discovered in 2006. Isn’t that cruel and inhumane on Greenwald’s part?

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — December 16, 2010 @ 1:28 pm - December 16, 2010

  8. Why do the Liberals always deny that actions have consequences? Oh, that’s right…they’re always the “victims”.

    And even DEATH they make too-soft. There’s much to be said for the traditional public hanging as both punishment and deterrent for extraordinary crimes. Let him and the public see his parents weeping in the front row. By the same token, make it swift and matter-of-fact. No disemboweling, please..he’s not in William Wallace’s league. And certainly not a martyr, just a rat. There’s a reason that treason is the ONLY crime specifically-defined in the US Constitution.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — December 16, 2010 @ 2:37 pm - December 16, 2010

  9. ILC — HEH!

    Comment by Bruce (GayPatriot) — December 16, 2010 @ 3:12 pm - December 16, 2010

  10. These are the same folks who were horrified that America would actively search for the Soviet spies that democreeps hired to work in government. But then you can’t be too damn bright if you maintain that a Senator had anything to do with a HOUSE committee.

    Didn’t they howl thus over Alger Hiss?

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 16, 2010 @ 3:13 pm - December 16, 2010

  11. So, the left has dumbed down the definition of “torture” so that it now includes having your pillow and blankie taken away from you.

    Comment by V the K — December 16, 2010 @ 3:31 pm - December 16, 2010

  12. Greenwald can go choke on an AIDS infested cock for all I care.

    +1

    Comment by V the K — December 16, 2010 @ 3:32 pm - December 16, 2010

  13. Wait! Let me please be the fly in the ointment this time, Bruce.

    Take a look at the picture of Manning. Think of the Army. The kid probably got brutalized and went terribly insane. This is what will happen if you force obvious gay men to remain in the military, an institution destined to destroy gay men’s sense of mental wholeness and judgment.

    The environment drives you insane. I know from experience. It is no coincidence that a gay guy did this. Gays are explicitly targeted and sabotaged. He probably went through a lot of crap that he doesn’t want to talk about.

    Maybe he should be executed but I do think people should understand that gay men, when placed in an environment like the Army that totally crushes them for who they are, will become unmoored from the normal logic of other Soldiers. They will be vulnerable.

    The worst thing to do is to execute Manning, then demand that DADT be repealed so that many more like him will be floating in the system with nowhere to go.

    Are you beginning to understand, my gay brothers?

    Comment by Robert Oscar Lopez — December 16, 2010 @ 4:05 pm - December 16, 2010

  14. Robert, I thoroughly respect not only your thoughts on this matter, but your prior service, as well.

    I served as a Field Artillery officer with a Pershing II Missile battery in W. Germany towards the end of the Cold War, and while I was comfortable in my homosexuality at that point, I was equally comfortable keeping my sexuality entirely to myself, as was (and still is, I believe) expected of all officers.

    If Manning was indeed brutalized, I would hazard to guess he probably made the foolish decision to throw his sexual preference in the faces of his fellow soldiers. It would be equally foolish for a straight soldier to prattle on about his love of cunnilingus, given that both behaviors could be prosecuted under the UCMJ.

    Comment by Eric Olsen — December 16, 2010 @ 5:35 pm - December 16, 2010

  15. 13: That may be your experience and perhaps Manning’s, but it isn’t that of most folks. Speak for yourself and not the rest of us.

    As for Manning, I have no sympathy for him. He violated his oath, betrayed the uniform he wore and disobeyed orders. Fry his ass.

    Comment by John — December 16, 2010 @ 5:39 pm - December 16, 2010

  16. the reason the terrorists want to kill us is not because they are regressive degenerates who hate Western values like freedom and tolerance, but rather because they just don’t like our military policies and how we’re all meddling in their business.

    Absolutely true that they reject freedom and tolerance, and hate many of the results of our freedom (like women showing their faces, not to mention legs, tits and more) fuel their belief that we are evil and degenerate, but it is tangential. The reason they want to kill us is because the fact that the United States and the West are richer, more powerful, and greater in every way than their stone age, backwards, cave-dwelling theocratic tyrannies is a direct refutation of their religious beliefs. The koran tells them, “Allah” tells them, that Islam should be the greatest richest most powerful force on Earth. It’s clearly not. We are. They want to kill us because our wealth, power and greatness disprove their entire religion.

    Comment by American Elephant — December 16, 2010 @ 6:05 pm - December 16, 2010

  17. I think Robert in #13 has a point but if he had it that bad he should have gotten himself discharged.

    If Manning is proved guilty in a courtroom then he should bear the penalty.

    That being said, IMHO, the government should either get busy with a trial or release him. Indefinite detention of citizens is one slippery slope to avoid.

    Comment by SoCalRobert — December 16, 2010 @ 7:10 pm - December 16, 2010

  18. American Elephant at 16:

    NICE WORK, dude. I hadn’t ever thought of it quite that way, but I think you’re on to something!

    Comment by bastiat fan — December 16, 2010 @ 7:30 pm - December 16, 2010

  19. For the record (in view of some of the above comments), I do not join in calling an illness on Greenwald or anybody.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — December 16, 2010 @ 10:31 pm - December 16, 2010

  20. I’m increasingly troubled by the new practice of holding people indefinitely without charge. If we cannot charge them under a law and we are denying their right to hear the accusations against them or even to give them a reason than essentially they become political prisoners. Are we really so eager to give up Due process under the law simply because of the gravity of a crime? I think this is an unhealthy precedent to allow and I think we are being remiss in our duties as citizens to not speak out against this. IF Manning did commit the crimes than why can’t we charge him and get his punishment underway? So far we simply have leaked documents and accusations. Shouldn’t we expect more out of the supposed guardians of the Constitution?

    Comment by Tim — December 16, 2010 @ 11:52 pm - December 16, 2010

  21. Thanks bastiat, but that’s not anything I came up with, it’s just what I learned from others.

    Comment by American Elephant — December 16, 2010 @ 11:55 pm - December 16, 2010

  22. Firing squad? Good, but waste of bullets and the soldiers might have regret later. I say the long drop with a short rope would be better for a traitor.

    Comment by Stone K — December 17, 2010 @ 12:20 am - December 17, 2010

  23. Maybe he should be executed but I do think people should understand that gay men, when placed in an environment like the Army that totally crushes them for who they are, will become unmoored from the normal logic of other Soldiers. They will be vulnerable.

    Then why should they be serving in the first place?

    Better yet, since we have an all-volunteer armed forces, why WOULD they?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 17, 2010 @ 1:11 am - December 17, 2010

  24. I join with ILC (#19) in his sentiments. For the record.

    Comment by Bruce (GayPatriot) — December 17, 2010 @ 9:05 am - December 17, 2010

  25. I do not join in calling an illness on Greenwald or anybody.

    Meh. It would seem we’re supposed to believe it’s no big deal anyway.

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 17, 2010 @ 6:57 pm - December 17, 2010

  26. /

    Comment by ThatGayConservative — December 17, 2010 @ 6:58 pm - December 17, 2010

  27. So, the big news is that Glenn used his own name to back up his viewpoint.
    In other cases he makes up a name and posts about how great his articles are all over blogs.

    Comment by Nan G — December 17, 2010 @ 9:05 pm - December 17, 2010

  28. Bruce is an authoritarian with no appreciation for the justice system that was created to protect him. As much as he and other conservatives love to rant and rave about how they’re the big freedom junkies who have the market cornered on honoring and cherishing the framers and the Constitution, there isn’t anything he’s ever written that would convince me he’s actually committed to these ideals. It’s really easy to be the big freedom guy when you’re talking about tax cuts, the challenge is recognizing that even bad guys who break laws are entitled to certain freedoms, too. Now he’s clamoring for this guy to continue to be tortured and even executed – before his trial begins and before he is even charged with a crime. Bruce doesn’t deserve to live in this country he loves so much, and would be a better fit as some Iranian or North Korean lackey, where executions are handed out not when people are convicted of breaking crimes, but when they do something that mildly offends someone in the aristocracy.

    Comment by Levi — December 18, 2010 @ 8:08 am - December 18, 2010

  29. So now Solitary confinement is torture?

    More Levi Lies *sigh* Why am I not surprised our little socialist is pro-treason?

    It is funny how he accuses Bruce of being better suited for North Korea, given his admitting being a socialist. It’s insulting to accuse Bruce of hating freedom or the mechanisms of the country, when Levi only wants to follow those that he agrees with. It’s funny Levi accuses conservatives of being authoritarian given his racism and belief in tyranny in that the smarter people have the right to drag those they disagree with kicking an screaming into the future.

    Levi’s a petty tyrant, we all should be grateful that the society we live in has checks and balances that hold people like him in place.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 18, 2010 @ 10:30 am - December 18, 2010

  30. Sorry, people, but on this issue I’m inclined to take Levi’s side.

    I know, it’s shocking. But…

    Bruce’s entire post is nasty and authortarian.

    Manning is NOT A TRAITOR. Treason is clinging to our enemies or making war on the country. Manning did neither. He was a whistle blower. You may disagree with the total scope of what he revealed, but that doesn’t make him a traitor. Much less is whether or not you think Manning “a pissy bitch.”

    Manning released the info because he thought it was in the American people’s best interest that it be released.

    And I wouldn’t be so quick to damn Wikipedia, either. Because the government wants to keep something secret doesn’t mean it should.

    Of course, because Manning disagreed with the government’s decisions for secrecy doesn’t automatically make him right either, but it is strange for people to cheer the thought of killing Manning for his judgment call while granting the government complete immunity for its calls.

    Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — December 19, 2010 @ 2:14 am - December 19, 2010

  31. I’ve got to respectively disagree with you CLD,

    Manning’s being held under suicide watch, understandably. If 9 hours of sleep is torture, 1-3 hours of TV a day, books, letter writing time, and visitor time is ‘torture’ I know a lot of GIs in the field who want to sign up for torture. Hardly a “conservative” source.

    Also let’s not forget that Manning has admitted to what he did. The damage is still being calculated.

    For all the calls of ‘transparancy’ Diplomacy is still the art of telling someone to go to hell in a way that they enjoy the trip. Even in the private world, we may talk about people behind their backs in one fashion, but not publicly. I ask to beat my coworkers all the time, but when working one on one, I don’t tell them that to their face.

    And for Levi to try to compare Bruce’s statement to North Korea is sickening. Indeed, with Levi’s self admitted socialism, and love of dictatorship, comparing Bruce to the Norks should be a compliment coming from him.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 19, 2010 @ 11:57 am - December 19, 2010

  32. You sick fucks. You’re gay and you’d be happy to hand a gay man over to others to be killed on the basis that he’s gay?

    Bruce, are you ENOUGH of a patriot with enough of a backbone to be the man who takes Manning there yourself, personally, to hand him over to these terrorists and risk your own life for your country, since you obviously believe SO STRONGLY that what Manning did was so wrong as to be punishable by death?

    And death, no less, for being gay?

    Would you put yourself on the line, personally?

    I wanna know.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — December 20, 2010 @ 1:22 am - December 20, 2010

  33. More ranting from GoB…

    It’s clear that Manning hates his country so much as to commit treason, then by all means, let’s send him to the country that supports his enemies.

    And, GoB, it’s not him being gay. It’s him being a tratior.

    But hey, it’s nice to see someone on the left admitting to human rights violations in Iran, given the administration’s efforts to silence them.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 20, 2010 @ 6:39 am - December 20, 2010

  34. You’re missing my point: you’re willing to let homophobia be the means by which Manning dies? That’s like a group of Dutch Jews handing over a collaborator not to the allies to be dealt with humanely and by imprisonment and due process, but by exposing the collaborator to the Nazis as a Jew, to be sent off to a concentration camps and all the horrors of that.

    You sicken me.

    As far as treason, you don’t know that. No one does…yet. And there exists in the UCMJ the means for acting against orders on moral grounds.

    Are the conditions of Manning’s incarceration typical? No, they’re not. They’re extreme. They’re classified as torture.

    So the United States is torturing its own now.

    God Bless Us.

    Comment by God of Biscuits — December 20, 2010 @ 6:17 pm - December 20, 2010

  35. You had a point? Really?

    They’re SOP for someone in solitary, on suicide watch.

    Congratulations God of Levi, you’ve reduced yourself to parody.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 20, 2010 @ 8:15 pm - December 20, 2010

  36. Also GoB, a quick search of the archives don’t seem to have you leaping to the defense of the Haditha soldiers, who were kept in arguably worse conditions. Of course, since Manning isn’t being tortured, your argument still falls flat.

    But wait, they were killing America’s enemies, not giving them aid and comfort. So I’m sure their confinement and ongoing delays in SSG Wuterich’s trial, doesn’t matter to you.

    Fact is, Manning’s actions aided and emboldened our enemies. Clearly he doesn’t like this country, so why not let him “experience” the people he’s aiding?

    Like I said though, I’m all for a public firing squad.
    In Berkley.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 20, 2010 @ 8:51 pm - December 20, 2010

  37. You’re missing my point: you’re willing to let homophobia be the means by which Manning dies?

    Why not? After all, Manning handed over all of this information to the homophobes with the express intent of helping them.

    I can think of no better outcome for him than to be handed over to the very homophobes he supports and endorses and for which he leaks classified information.

    So tell us, GoB; how does your opposition to “homophobia” square with your endorsement, support, and outright collaboration with these very groups you deem “homophobes”?

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — December 20, 2010 @ 11:21 pm - December 20, 2010

  38. The Livewire,

    I’ve read your respectful disagreement, and will now repectfully disagree with it.

    First off, nothing in your reponse really touches on what I said. I said nothing about Levi’s comparing Bruce to the North Koreans; what I said was that Bruce’s post was nasty and authortarian as Levi implied.

    Here is what Levi wrote (comment 28) that I am inclined to agree with:

    Bruce is an authoritarian … he and other conservatives love to rant and rave about how they’re the big freedom junkies who have the market cornered on honoring and cherishing the framers and the Constitution … Now he’s clamoring for this guy to continue to be tortured and even executed – before his trial begins and before he is even charged with a crime.

    Now reread Bruce’s post and tell me what amongst these claims of Levi’s aren’t true about it. Has Bruce not already convicted Manning? Has he not shown he cares not a whit for how Manning is being treated? Does Bruce show any concern for whether Manning’s treatment is constitutional?

    Reading Bruce’s post wishing for death on Manning for Manning’s admission to having leaked infor to Wikileaks I was left wondering if Bruce would like it if he was getting Manning’s treatment for the crime of having a man for a spouse instead of a woman. (Which is a crime in some places.)

    And please not Levi’s point about conservatives’ claiming to be the only true lovers of the Constitution. You and Bruce claim Manning is a traitor. You both ignore the Consitution’s own definition of treason when you do so. I mentioned this explicitly:

    Treason is clinging to our enemies or making war on the country. Manning did neither. He was a whistle blower. You may disagree with the total scope of what he revealed, but that doesn’t make him a traitor.

    In your reply you choose to ignore this point completely.

    Now for the specifics of your response:

    Manning’s being held under suicide watch, understandably. If 9 hours of sleep is torture, 1-3 hours of TV a day, books, letter writing time, and visitor time is ‘torture’

    There is a slight problem here, as we now have two different sources on Manning’s imprisonment giving us conflicting information. Your source, Lt. Col David Coombs (or rather his web log), states that Manning is on “Prevention of Injury” watch, while Bruce’s source, Glenn Greenwald states that “he is not and never has been on suicide watch.”

    We cannot resolve this problem here, but it is only a small problem because the two accounts of Manning’s situation are largly in agreement. Greenwald’s account — which was the sole basis of Bruce’s post — says nothing of Manning having blankets for his bed nor a “mattress that has a built-in pillow,” so it makes Manning’s sleeping situation seem more uncomfortable than Coombs’. However, because Coombs’ implies that the built-in pillow is a recent addition, Manning’s sleeping situation hasn’t been what is typical of prisoners in the United States — you know, people who have actually been convicted of crimes like murder.

    I really don’t know why, Livewire, you want to play at the silly game of pretending that GI’s in the field would prefer to be held in a cell for 23 hours a day to being free to exercise and communicate with others while doing their jobs. The assertion is sheer bullshit and you insult my intelligence by making it. Please do not insult my intelligence again.

    As for the specifics of Greenwald’s torture concerns, he was questioning if solitary confinement itself is a form of psychological torture and if Manning’s treatment was close enough to solitary confiment to effectively be so. The torture question aside, I do not consider the treatment Manning is getting to be proper or humane for someone convicted, let alone someone who merely stands accused.

    let’s not forget that Manning has admitted to what he did.

    Manning admitted to being a whistleblower regarding info the government wanted kept secret. And to a third party. He’s made no formal confession that I’m aware of. In any event he’s currently being punished without being convicted. And the details of his punishment sound like they are unconstitutionally cruel and unusual to me.

    The damage is still being calculated.

    By whom? The government that wants to keep is in the dark? Taking the governments claim that national security has been greviously harmed at face value impresses me as just as silly as accepting Wikileaks assurance that no national security harm can possibly come from what they’ve released.

    Why do you cheer the nasty treatment Manning is being given for making the judgment call to be a whistleblowing leaker — and supporting Bruce’s desire for Manning’s death while you’re at it — while granting the goverment complete trust and immunity for keeping things secret which it really had no business keeping secret? (And some of the things that have come out fall into that category, in my humble opinion.)

    Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — December 21, 2010 @ 1:41 am - December 21, 2010

  39. After all, Manning handed over all of this information to the homophobes with the express intent of helping them.

    You make that assertion, NDT, simply because you want to make it. Not because you can back it up, or because it makes any sense.

    Manning stated his intentions in his chats with Lamo that got him in trouble in the first place:

    i want people to see the truth… regardless of who they are… because without information, you cannot make informed decisions as a public

    There is nothing there about helping the Isamonuts. His own sense of his duty as a citizen motivated him. You may consider his reasoning to have been deranged, but you have no call to lie about it.

    Comment by Classical Liberal Dave — December 21, 2010 @ 1:48 am - December 21, 2010

  40. CLD,

    Bruce isn’t a court of law. Nor am I. We don’t have to wait for ‘due process’ to wish him harm. Nor do we have the ability to wisk him away w/o said process.

    As I pointed out to GoB above, his conditions are better than the Marines accused at Haditha suffered, and are apparently consistant with those under Maximum security watch.

    Given what he’s accused of (and admitted to, albiet not in a court of law) communications with him would need to be monitored at best. His actions have damaged our efforts in war and peace abroad, and are still unknown, as Wikileaks keeps putting information out there.

    Calling Manning a ‘whistleblower’ is like calling the Rosenbergs and Hiss ‘whistleblowers’ What he has done is released confidential information in a time of war, with no reason except to help our enemies. How is it ‘whistleblowing’ to point out that Abbas worked with Israel? Or that we really don’t trust Karzai? Or to name our informants and reveal our networks?

    You want to applaud him for ‘wanting others to see the truth.’ The terrorists want us to see the ‘truth’ of their religion. Levi wants us to see the ‘truth’ of Global Warming. What Manning wanted to do was throw a temper tantrum.

    His temper tantrum has risked the lives of our troops and our allies. It has exposed our information gathering methods, and damaged relations with our allies by making ‘backstairs coversations’ public.

    Technically, the Rosenbergs weren’t convicted of Treason. IaNaL, but history calls it treason. He has given aid and comfort to our enemies, and made war on this country.

    As to ‘keeping things secret’ You do realize that the infiltration of the German and Italian spy networks before and during WW II were not declassified until the 90′s, right? My godkids may hear about all the near misses we’ve had in the past decade. You can find news reports about the bomb threat here in Columbus. You can’t find any follow up to the time they evacuated the mall and detonated a ‘suspicious package’. I dont’ trust the government any more than I can throw them, but any information that should be exposed was a side effect of his actions. We don’t pin a medal on the guy who unloaded buckshot into a crowd, just because he happened to hit the purse snatcher in the blast.

    GG is upset that due process is being followed. (again, find me posts about him complaning about the conditions of the Haditha Marines) “Lexington Concord” is coming up with a humane solution to resolve the ‘political prisoner’ issue. We demand that nations release political prisoners all the time. So he’s offering to make Glenn happy and release him.

    I’m all for due process, then we shoot him. In Berkley.

    Comment by The_Livewire — December 21, 2010 @ 7:01 am - December 21, 2010

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