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  1. I think you mean ex-Republican re: FL voter fraud. In any case, always frustrating how the media has no problem running dubious claims of voter suppression by the GOP while totally ignoring actual cases of voter fraud by Democrats.

    Comment by chad — November 28, 2012 @ 7:20 am - November 28, 2012

  2. Chad he means if the guy in question was an ex-Democrat (rather than an ex-Republican) would they run the story? (I had to read it twice to get that).

    Comment by The_Livewire — November 28, 2012 @ 7:36 am - November 28, 2012

  3. I have yet to meet an intelligent liberal. SRSLY, I’ve never met any liberal who could defend their ideology on the basis of facts and reason; because liberalism isn’t based on facts and reason.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 8:40 am - November 28, 2012

  4. Agree. “Why intelligent [do] liberals often fail to make strong arguments”? – How about because left-liberalism is about emotion and the person’s sense of gratification, not about thinking and facts? How about because it’s not possible to make strong arguments for crap?

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — November 28, 2012 @ 9:20 am - November 28, 2012

  5. Thanks for the catch, Livewire. And of course, Dan’s point is correct…ex-Democrats who speak out against their former party are discredited even if they had avoided scandal or embarrassment, and disgraced ex-Republicans are praised when they speak out against the GOP, no matter how untrustworthy they are.

    A group of junior high girls has more integrity than the MSM when it comes to not spreading false rumors and innuendo.

    Comment by chad — November 28, 2012 @ 9:28 am - November 28, 2012

  6. I read a book called “What’s the Matter with Kansas” several years ago and it made the same point this article has. However, it was Republicans who were at fault. Kansas was a Rebulican favoring state in the 1930s when the dust bowl was happening, and after a few years they started putting Democrats in office, and allowing off-shoots of the New Deal into their towns. The consensus was that although some of the New Deal programs were probably a little wastefuel (Bridge to Nowhere type stuff), they at least allowed the unemployed farmers to feed their familes while they waited out the soil erosion and drought.

    In the book, a similar situation happened in Kansas in the 1970′s and 80′s. Republicans were once again in charge and a lot of economic activity fled the state. Family farms were underbid and put out of business by conglomerates, manufacturing plants closed, etc. Instead of trying a different economic approach or unionizing or electing officials from a different party, the people of Kansas were happy to live in their echo chamber. You were stigmatized if you wanted to be a Democrat. The people of Kansas voted in Republicans more radical than before.

    Sidenote: Sometime around here Fred Phelps started running for public office and won a much higher percenatge of the cote than you would think.

    The Kansas economony conitinued to suffer until Bill Graves ( a moderate Republican) got in office, and then Kathleen Sebelius. Now we’re back to Brownback and thinks aren’t looking up.

    The point that I’m trying to make is that it’s silly to think this doesn’t happen on both sides. There is a lot of rhetoric and blind agreeance with each other on both liberal and conservative blogs, to include this site. On comment #3 V the K says he’s never, ever met an intelligent liberal. I find that hard to beleive. I know a lot of Republicans who are intelligent people, I just don’t see eye to eye with them. Go to a liberal blog and every time you see the words liberal, conservative, democrat, and republican, substitute them with their antonym and it won’t sound much different than a lot of the material on this blog. It’s human nature to seek out people who are similar, so naturally you share a lot of your ideas with those close to you. But don’t try to pervert that fact into “I have yet to meet an intelligent liberal. SRSLY” It makes you sound like your tossing things into an echo chamber so people can pat you on the back for it.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 11:01 am - November 28, 2012

  7. “Both sides are the same” is just another thoughtless trope liberals throw around to avoid having to defend their idiotic ideology.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 11:06 am - November 28, 2012

  8. Voter fraud doesn’t make any sense. Why would someone be motivated to commit voter fraud? It would take a fair amount of preparation, even then there are any number of problems you could encounter that would prevent you from casting additional votes, you run the risk of getting thrown in jail, and you could at most cast 3 or 4 extra votes for your candidate, for which you’ll never be thanked or compensated.

    Generally, when people break rules, it’s because they have something to gain. Nobody gains anything from committing voter fraud. So what’s really going on?

    Voter fraud is a conservative myth that Republicans use to justify their vote suppression policies. Voter suppression, in stark contrast to voter fraud, makes lots and lots of sense, particularly if you’re the party that historically performs poorly when turnout is high. For voter fraud to work in any significant way, you’d need to coordinate hundreds of thousands of people all over the country, but for voter suppression to work you only need a few officials in key political positions. From there, you can call the shots on early voting, you can decide which precincts get the most voting machines and which ones get the fewest, you can make the ballots overly long and confusing, you can purge voters from the rolls by the thousands – all of which in the aggregate can swing vote totals by the thousands.

    And then you have the voter ID laws, which creates an obstacle course through the bureaucracy of government that you have to run through if you want to vote. Well isn’t that just extremely convenient for the party that has the advantage with low turnout?

    Suppressing the vote is one of the few options Republicans have for remaining competitive. Republican leaders and policies are extremely unpopular and the demographics are sprinting in the opposite direction. What else can they do but lean on the scales a little bit? The entire presidency of George Bush would have been avoided if voter suppression wasn’t a principle objective of national Republicans. Conservatives cannot win in the battleground of ideas, so they’ve decided to make voting for minorities and students as difficult and cumbersome as possible.

    So Dan apparently has some links proving widespread Democratic voter fraud? I’d love to see them. In the meantime, Dan can look at the pictures of people lining up around the block for early voting in Florida. Oh what do you know, a Republican was overseeing that process.

    The person who attempts to steal an election by trying to convince millions of people to secretly commit voter fraud in exchange for nothing would be a moron. That’s a terrible plan and it wouldn’t work. The people who attempt to steal elections by turning voting into an endurance competition are likely to be much more successful, and sure enough they’ve already changed a few election results. So where is the problem again?

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 11:45 am - November 28, 2012

  9. I think one might well ask, “What’t the matter with California?” The state is in a death spiral of ever increasing taxes, exploding spending, and businesses fleeing the state. Yet, Californians routinely elect and re-elect those who enact the very policies that are destroying the state. Stupid, yes?

    You could also ask “What’s wrong with Detroit?” for the same reason. In 1950, Detroit had the highest per capita income of any city in America. For the last 45 years, the city has seen unbroken rule by leftist Democrats. Parts of it are now indistinguishable for Mogadishu, while other parts are reverting to wilderness. Yet, Detroit continually elects and re-elects the same cabal of corrupt political leftist hacks.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 11:47 am - November 28, 2012

  10. Why would someone be motivated to commit voter fraud?

    Um, because they want their political allies to win an election.

    As I said, leftists are stupid.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 11:48 am - November 28, 2012

  11. I was not trying to avoid defense of my ideology. In fact, my post had nothing to do with my ideology.

    My goal was to have you take an objective look at the thesis of the article, and conclude that both sides are guilty. Instead you chose to try and undermine my argument by saying my point was a thoughtless trope and I was incapable of defending my political opinions. As in your #3 post, I beleive you said those things so that other people would agree with you, regardless of the truth: an echo chamber

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 11:51 am - November 28, 2012

  12. Another thing: Leftists always claim voter fraud doesn’t exist because there are few prosecutions for it. Well, duh, in most jurisdictions, the people who are responsible for investigating voter fraud are the people who benefit from it. Is a Democrat DA in Chicago who owes his job to the Democrat machine *really* going to do a thorough investigation of voting irregularities? Hell, no. And it is the same in any large city in the USA.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 11:53 am - November 28, 2012

  13. Interestingly, a lot of family farms are still being bought out by large conglomerates to avoid the (Democrat-beloved) death tax. Also, small farms are being consolidated in large farms and acres of trees and wildlands are being bulldozed. Why? Because Democrats have mandated that corn be made into ethanol to save the polar bears from ManBearPig.

    Yet, when a family farm is bought out by ADM or some other conglomerate, or when forests are bulldozed for monocropping, idiots blame Republicans. Because supposedly Republicans are the party of Big Business. Although, if one actually looks into the facts, Democrats receive huge donations from big business and Big Government policies inherently favor large businesses over smaller ones. Administrative compliance with regulations is a huge burden and barrier to entry for smaller businesses; also, big businesses have powerful lobbyists who can shape legislation to favor them.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 11:58 am - November 28, 2012

  14. Also, the “both sides are equally stupid” argument is somewhat undermined when the 2012 election featured two Republican candidates campaigning on tax reform, fiscal responsibility, and pro-growth economic policy and the other side was campaigning about contraceptives, tax returns, and Big Bird.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:01 pm - November 28, 2012

  15. California and Detriot may be better served by voting in Republicans, they should give it a shot. If they are in fact in a death spiral (good job sounding dramatic), why shouldn’t they adjust ideologies? The 1930′s Kansans did and it served them well.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 12:02 pm - November 28, 2012

  16. Also, it’s hard to respect the “intellect” of liberals when every argument eventually comes down to, “You’re a racist.”

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:04 pm - November 28, 2012

  17. Also, Reason #417,635 I regard liberals as idiots.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:15 pm - November 28, 2012

  18. Um, because they want their political allies to win an election.

    As I said, leftists are stupid.

    Another thing: Leftists always claim voter fraud doesn’t exist because there are few prosecutions for it. Well, duh, in most jurisdictions, the people who are responsible for investigating voter fraud are the people who benefit from it. Is a Democrat DA in Chicago who owes his job to the Democrat machine *really* going to do a thorough investigation of voting irregularities? Hell, no. And it is the same in any large city in the USA.

    You need to understand that voting fraud doesn’t make sense as a strategy to steal an election. I’ll use myself as an example. It took me 2 hours to vote on election day. If I really wanted to help my candidate win, I could have taken the entire day off and gone around voting for Democrats until polls close, netting maybe 5 bonus votes for my candidate assuming my plan goes off without a hitch. But I live in DC, which goes for Democrats by 50-60% margin, so why would I bother doing it? I’m going to give up my day, risking prison, in exchange for nothing, because I want Obama to win DC by 54.4514% instead of 54.4513%?

    As for these other ‘large cities in the USA,’ they’ve been going for Democrats by similar margins for generations. It does not make sense to commit voter fraud in the precincts where you’re pulling in your biggest margins. If you wanted to win by committing voter fraud, your efforts would be focused in rural areas and the suburbs. You’d be trying to get red precincts to flip to blue precincts, not making blue precincts even bluer. Right?

    Not only am I receiving no incentive to commit voter fraud, but my committing voter fraud doesn’t do anything to influence the result. Assuming that the vast majority of would-be fradulent voters would only be able to cast 1 extra ballot, you’re talking about having to convince millions of people to put themselves at risk for absolutely no personal gain. People don’t do that. There aren’t persecutions for these crimes because no one is committing these crimes. People commit crimes in order to benefit. And no, it’s not a benefit to have your preferred politician in office in any meaningful sense.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 12:28 pm - November 28, 2012

  19. Intelligent liberals? Pseudo-intelligent would be more like it. Case in point, Barak Obama.

    Comment by Roberto — November 28, 2012 @ 12:38 pm - November 28, 2012

  20. Voter fraud doesn’t make any sense. Why would someone be motivated to commit voter fraud? It would take a fair amount of preparation, even then there are any number of problems you could encounter that would prevent you from casting additional votes, you run the risk of getting thrown in jail, and you could at most cast 3 or 4 extra votes for your candidate, for which you’ll never be thanked or compensated.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 11:45 am – November 28, 2012

    The risk of being thrown in jail, Levi?

    If Obama wins, he puts Holder in office.

    Holder has already stated he will not prosecute cases of voter fraud committed by Obama supporters.

    Holder exempted from prosecution people like the Black Panthers who engaged in outright voter intimidation.

    And as we see with Jon Corzine, Obama will block any prosecution of his supporters and donors for any crime, even stealing billions of dollars.

    And what’s to coordinate? You just tell people to drive to different precincts, most of which are even in walking distance of each other, and try to cast their votes there. After all, Obama supporters running these places won’t check your ID, won’t even see if you’re on the list of registered voters, and won’t ask you to check in, because all of those equal “suppression”; you just walk in, demand a ballot, and go cast it.

    And as for thanks or compensation, cultists like yourself are easily satisfied with your rationalization that breaking the law to elect Obama is OK because Obama is the Lord and Messiah.

    The reason you fight voter ID tooth and nail, Levi, is because your Obama Party cheats. That’s all there is to it. You pay non-citizens to vote, you order people to vote multiple times, and so forth. The Obama Party opposes any registration, any residency, any type of validation requirements to vote, period.

    Republicans need to realize that. Obama liars like Levi have no compunctions about committing voter fraud. We need to start doing the same. We need to start exploiting the Obama Party’s loopholes. We need to take vans and buses and bus people from precinct to precinct to cast votes. We need to file immediate lawsuits against any type of citizenship, identity, or residency validation. We need to put conservatives out in front of polling places in uniforms with nightsticks making racial slurs. We need to do all the things that Levi endorses and does because Levi believes that conservatives are dumb enough to keep playing by the rules when he and his criminal party don’t.

    And then when Republicans take control, we pass laws to ban all the things that we used to take power. We impose national voter ID requirements, we put purple fingers in place, we require multiple affadavits for absentee balloting, and we streamline military voting.

    Scorched earth. Levi and his filthy ilk will never stop cheating and lying, nor will they enforce the laws.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 12:38 pm - November 28, 2012

  21. People in Illinois know well that certain Chicago precincts are always the last to report. Why? Because the bosses need to know how many votes they need to swing statewide elections. In 2010, Pat Quinn lost every county in Illinois except for Cook and two adjacent counties. Other states with large cities run by Democrat machines (Philadelphia, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Cleveland) have the same issue. A Republican has to do extremely well outside the cities to overcome the vote fraud in the cities.

    It is irrational to expect the party that benefits from election fraud to investigate election fraud. And if there is no risk of prosecution, then there is no disincentive against committing vote fraud.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:43 pm - November 28, 2012

  22. Let’s also remember that a lot of the inner city Democrat base are on welfare. It’s not like they have to be at a job on Election Day. Sp, why not vote four or five times.

    BTW: Republican poll watchers were thrown out of Philadelphia voting precincts on Election Day. Certainly seems like they didn’t want to be watched.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:48 pm - November 28, 2012

  23. And in Virginia, People showing up to vote on election day were told by poll workers they had already voted. That seems worth investigating.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:50 pm - November 28, 2012

  24. Holt sh!t. I haven’t been talking about voter fraud, I was trying reveal that this blog was guilty of the same nepotism the linked article espoused.

    Looks like this is going to turn into another Levi is awful because ______ thread. I can’t wait until all the usual suspects jump on board.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 12:52 pm - November 28, 2012

  25. You need to understand that voting fraud doesn’t make sense as a strategy to steal an election. I’ll use myself as an example. It took me 2 hours to vote on election day. If I really wanted to help my candidate win, I could have taken the entire day off and gone around voting for Democrats until polls close, netting maybe 5 bonus votes for my candidate assuming my plan goes off without a hitch. But I live in DC, which goes for Democrats by 50-60% margin, so why would I bother doing it? I’m going to give up my day, risking prison, in exchange for nothing, because I want Obama to win DC by 54.4514% instead of 54.4513%?

    Nope.

    Instead, you’re going to drive across the border into Virginia, which is a swing state, and then back again into Maryland. You can reach polling places in all of these on transit, no problem.

    Take the day off? No problem. Obama pays you $200 and gives you a van ride in exchange for voting in four or five locations.

    Getting caught? How? No Obama supporter anywhere at the polls is going to ask you to provide ID, verify your registration, or even give your name. Obama supporters believe all of these things are racist and meant only to suppress voters; Obama supporters believe that everyone who walks into a precinct polling place must be allowed to vote, no questions asked. Indeed, since they’re shuttling you around, they’ll make sure that you go to “safe” polling places in which hardcore OFA volunteers and Obama donors are in charge.

    Risk jail time? No problem. Obama has already stated that when he wins, Holder will never prosecute voter fraud, and we already know that Holder and the DOJ dropped cases of voter intimidation and fraud as we saw with the Black Panthers.

    Voter fraud makes perfect sense for the Obama Party. It’s also why Obama supporters like you have aneurysms when actually requiring people to prove that they are citizens and voting in the correct spot is required, much less double-checking to ensure they don’t vote twice.

    I mean really, Levi, you would be dangerous if you weren’t so stupid. Do you think conservatives can’t read a map? Do you think we don’t know that DC borders two states, one of which is a clear swing state, and is within easy bus or van distance of both Delaware and the key swing state of Pennsylvania?

    Your lies probably work for the typical Obama voter, who is an illiterate imbecile. But you’re dealing with conservatives now, and we see clearly both your complete lack of intellect and the depths of your malice. We know full well you have the means and method to do it, and we also know that you have the fanatical devotion to the Obama cult to do it.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 12:55 pm - November 28, 2012

  26. Go to a liberal blog and every time you see the words liberal, conservative, democrat, and republican, substitute them with their antonym and it won’t sound much different than a lot of the material on this blog. It’s human nature to seek out people who are similar, so naturally you share a lot of your ideas with those close to you. But don’t try to pervert that fact into “I have yet to meet an intelligent liberal. SRSLY” It makes you sound like your tossing things into an echo chamber so people can pat you on the back for it.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 11:01 am – November 28, 2012

    That’s nice, Aaron.

    Now, when you can come back here with a link showing you actually doing that on multiple liberal blogs, we might actually care.

    Concern trolls like yourself are very typical. You play on the fact that conservatives do have a willingness to self-examine and change our behavior, as well as admit that we’re wrong when we are wrong. But once one realizes that you’re not saying the same thing to your liberal friends, what becomes immediately obvious is that your attacks on conservatives are not out of principle, but are out of partisanship.

    In short, you concern trolls have reached the same level with your trolling as Al Sharpton has with the race card. And since you can’t be trusted to be fair or honest, your attempts to invoke either are shown as nothing more than vicious and malicious attempts to exploit the decency of others for your own pathetic con games.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 1:00 pm - November 28, 2012

  27. Holt sh!t. I haven’t been talking about voter fraud, I was trying reveal that this blog was guilty of the same nepotism the linked article espoused.

    Looks like this is going to turn into another Levi is awful because ______ thread. I can’t wait until all the usual suspects jump on board.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 12:52 pm – November 28, 2012

    Yup.

    You’re not interested in anything Obama supporters or liberals like Levi do wrong; you’re only interested in attacking and bashing conservatives.

    Conservatives can no longer assume that liberals are acting out of good faith. Instead, what has to be recognized is that liberals act out of sheer malice and hatred toward conservatives. Indeed, liberals wish death on conservatives and call for them to be executed.

    This is war. One has to realize that liberals like yourself try to turn our best values against us. We have to recognize that liberals and Obama supporters do not respect honesty or fairness and instead see them as things to exploit to advance the power of the Obama Party.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 1:09 pm - November 28, 2012

  28. @Aaron,

    Yes, the comments in this blog is nothing more than an echo chamber of people thinking the same way.

    That’s why you never see NDT or myself discussing whether the sniper round or the shot gun is the better way to address criticism. That’s why you don’t see Rattlesnake and I discussing the role and limits of what a government shouldn’t do vs what it can’t do. That’s why you don’t see disagreement on the role of government from Lori’s Libertarian viewpoints to the more structured forms of government advocated by others.

    I’ve never seen a disagreement on the role of courts in the ‘same sex marriage’ question. Nor have I seen any variation on what kind of resolution the question requires.

    Heck just look at the primary season. See how even then, with candidates in the field, everyone in the comments forcefully united behind Mitt Romney from the beginning. I remember some of Bruce’s most elequent posts on the subject.

    As to Levi? It’s abundandly clear that Levi is a deluded liar, incapable of admitting the truth if it stares him in the face. Again and again, he is called on his lies, and again and again he keeps parroting them, like the fascist he is.

    The only reason to address the child, is for new readers to have access to the facts when the little boy starts his pouting.

    Yes, I’m sure that if you beleive “…this blog was guilty of the same nepotism the linked article espoused.” Then Levi’s world isn’t one where inconvient people are killed, art is disallowed, and people who don’t agree aren’t dragged ‘kicking and screaming’ into the future.

    Comment by The_Livewire — November 28, 2012 @ 1:25 pm - November 28, 2012

  29. I went to crooks and liars and clicked on the first comments page and found this:

    “Everything the republican party does is for the party and their bosses – the plutocrats, and that’s it. The party is sick and it should be put down”

    Here’s a quote from North Dallas Thirty moments ago,

    “Your lies probably work for the typical Obama voter, who is an illiterate imbecile. But you’re dealing with conservatives now, and we see clearly both your complete lack of intellect and the depths of your malice. We know full well you have the means and method to do it, and we also know that you have the fanatical devotion to the Obama cult to do it.”

    I was really thinking about finding multiple blogs and spending some time finding good material. But seeing as I found this almost instantly, I do not feel the need to go any further.

    Now back to my point, can we not look objectively and see the similarities?

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 1:30 pm - November 28, 2012

  30. People in Illinois know well that certain Chicago precincts are always the last to report. Why? Because the bosses need to know how many votes they need to swing statewide elections. In 2010, Pat Quinn lost every county in Illinois except for Cook and two adjacent counties. Other states with large cities run by Democrat machines (Philadelphia, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Cleveland) have the same issue. A Republican has to do extremely well outside the cities to overcome the vote fraud in the cities.

    But that’s not voter fraud, that’s ballot-stuffing. For voter fraud to work, you would hatch your scheme ahead of time and hope it works out. There is no waiting to see how many votes you need to come up with, that is a completely different way of rigging an election. Voter ID laws wouldn’t do anything to prevent that.

    And again, why are the Democrats’ voter fraud schemes centered on cities, where they don’t need any help? Every fraudulent vote they earn in these big cities only increases their chance of getting caught and it doesn’t help them win elections. They would focus on flipping red precincts, not bolstering already blue ones.

    It is irrational to expect the party that benefits from election fraud to investigate election fraud. And if there is no risk of prosecution, then there is no disincentive against committing vote fraud.

    Well there’s no incentive for committing vote fraud, which is the bigger problem with your little theory if you ask me. Again, the vague, disconnected satisfaction of knowing your political candidate won an election is not something that motivates people. There are tens of millions of people in this country that don’t vote at all. And yet, supposedly there are legions of people out there who are spending all day double and triple voting because they think they’re going to get something meaningful in return? It’s unbelievable.

    Let’s also remember that a lot of the inner city Democrat base are on welfare. It’s not like they have to be at a job on Election Day. Sp, why not vote four or five times.

    BTW: Republican poll watchers were thrown out of Philadelphia voting precincts on Election Day. Certainly seems like they didn’t want to be watched.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:48 pm – November 28, 2012

    And in Virginia, People showing up to vote on election day were told by poll workers they had already voted. That seems worth investigating.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 12:50 pm – November 28, 2012

    In a country of 300 million people, it’s irrational not to expect inconsistencies. Some of them favor Republicans and some favor Democrats. But there is no coordinated voter fraud of any scale. The big voting problem we have in this country is the Republicans’ effort to suppress the vote. In contrast to voter fraud, there is evidence for suppression, as well as a clear incentive for the Republicans. It works. It’s efficient.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 1:34 pm - November 28, 2012

  31. Hmm, funny thing about Echo Chambers.

    “Vote fraud is a Republican Myth.”

    “Republicans need to agree to tax increases in order to work with the president.”

    “Republicans need to separate themselves from social conservatives.”

    “The Tea Party are a bunch of racists who hate the President because he’s black.”

    “Bush lied, people died.”

    “Deficits are entirely the fault of the Bush tax cuts.”

    “Obama is just trying to clean up the mess he inherited from Bush.”

    Now, just where are those nuggets of wisdom being echoed from?

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 1:48 pm - November 28, 2012

  32. @31

    What’s your point? Did you want me to go through this blog and find the conservative equivalent? Or are you trying to deny that one exists?

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 1:55 pm - November 28, 2012

  33. “Why do intelligent liberals often fail to make strong arguments”?
    Dick Durbin just made an insane argument for redistribution of wealth in this country.
    His ”logic?”
    Because some people work hard but still can’t improve matters for themselves or their children.
    Guess what?
    Working hard doesn’t begin on the job, after re-hab or prison.
    It MUST begin at school.
    IF a person works hard from his school time onward he WILL be successful.
    Durbin ”argues” from a faulty premise.
    An incomplete premise.
    Then he solves his made-up problem with his distributionist dream.
    And I bet there are plenty listening to him while mindlessly nodding their heads, yes, yes, yes…..gimme, gimme, gimme.

    Comment by Nan G — November 28, 2012 @ 1:56 pm - November 28, 2012

  34. Why are liberals praised as being “great thinkers” just because they mouth thoughtlessly the talking points the Democrat/Media establishment feed to them?

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 1:57 pm - November 28, 2012

  35. I went to crooks and liars and clicked on the first comments page and found this:

    “Everything the republican party does is for the party and their bosses – the plutocrats, and that’s it. The party is sick and it should be put down”

    Here’s a quote from North Dallas Thirty moments ago,

    “Your lies probably work for the typical Obama voter, who is an illiterate imbecile. But you’re dealing with conservatives now, and we see clearly both your complete lack of intellect and the depths of your malice. We know full well you have the means and method to do it, and we also know that you have the fanatical devotion to the Obama cult to do it.”

    I was really thinking about finding multiple blogs and spending some time finding good material. But seeing as I found this almost instantly, I do not feel the need to go any further.

    Now back to my point, can we not look objectively and see the similarities?

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 1:30 pm – November 28, 2012

    Sure, Aaron.

    When we look at the situation objectively, we see that you whine and berate conservatives about their conduct, but do nothing of the sort at Crooks and Liars.

    So what is clear is that you’re not acting in an objective fashion. You’re over here trying to berate and attack conservatives to change their behavior while sucking up to and endorsing the same behavior at Crooks and Liars.

    In short, you’re a bit like the Taliban running screaming to the Red Cross about US “war crimes”. You’re not acting out of principle; you’re operating solely to hamstring the other side because they are decent and honorable enough to engage in conduct in which you and yours have no intention of engaging.

    What you want is asymmetric warfare. Conservatives have realized the stakes: liberals like yourself are fundamentally indecent people who want us eradicated. You will not tolerate dissent and you openly advocate for our murder. You deliberately try to silence us using our own morality, which you and your fellow liberals spit upon.

    No more. Like the Israelis with Hamas, we have recognized that liberals like yourself are malicious and vile monsters who care about nothing other than power. You hold no one else accountable, and you praise the disgusting pigs in your party like Barack Obama who call their political opponents murderers, rapists, and tax cheats.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 2:01 pm - November 28, 2012

  36. What’s your point? Did you want me to go through this blog and find the conservative equivalent? Or are you trying to deny that one exists?

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 1:55 pm – November 28, 2012

    Well, if you were acting objectively, Aaron, you would be condemning these statements as wrong because of what was said, rather than worrying about the partisan affiliation of the person who said it.

    But you didn’t. In fact, your first response was to argue that it was OK because there was allegedly a “conservative equivalent”.

    So you’re not acting objectively. You’re acting out of relativism, which means something is right or wrong based solely on the person who says it and whether that is convenient or not for you. You are making clear that it’s OK for a liberal to say and do whatever they want as long as you THINK there’s a conservative equivalent somewhere; you don’t even actually have to provide one.

    Once one realizes this, the left becomes much more understandable. They’re literally children who believe they should be allowed to do whatever they want and impose whatever arbitrary rules they want on everyone else. Their whining is just rationalization and smokescreening for that fact.

    Once one realizes that liberals are completely arbitrary, their power over you is broken. They will say you are a racist when you’re not, they will claim you’re a tax cheat when you’re not, and so forth. They say it because it advances them personally, not because it has any basis in fact. You need not take them or their arguments seriously because they’re based on a child’s demand that you obey, not on any form of objective fact or principle.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 2:07 pm - November 28, 2012

  37. NDT,

    Actually it’s simpler than that.

    The Crooks and Liars comment is again pegging people in groups.

    The quote he chose of yours is aimed at an individual.

    (We’ll ignore the irony of that, given your love of the shotgun and mine of the sniper rifle.)

    Comment by The_Livewire — November 28, 2012 @ 2:32 pm - November 28, 2012

  38. If Aaron, mike, and Levi weren’t pure partisan hacks, they wouldn’t be wasting their time at this website; they’d be pressuring their own party to embrace fiscal responsibility and offer up spending cuts and entitlement reforms.

    But you never see liberals doing that, do you? There’s vigorous debate on the right over how to approach social issues, but debate on the left over economic policy is non-existent.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 2:38 pm - November 28, 2012

  39. I notice a lot of Levi’s arguments amoun to “what would x have to gain from doing y?”, regardless of what the evidence says. I imagine x is often a lot more imaginitive than Levi and can think of a good reason to commit voter fraud (in order to win an election, maybe) and a way in which it might be feasible (such as by taking advantage of the lax enforcement of election rules).

    And I’m not sure what the big deal with voter ID is anyway. Even if there is a possibility that the integrity of an election (which there obviously is), why would it hurt just to be safe? If someone isn’t going to even put in the minimal amount of effort that is required to get an ID, they probably shouldn’t be voting anyway. I mean, voters in Canada and just about everywhere else, it seems, require ID to vote, and it isn’t a big deal.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 2:44 pm - November 28, 2012

  40. I might be better to phrase Levi’s argument as “what could x possibly have to gain from doing y? Nothing I can think of, therefore it is impossible.”

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 2:45 pm - November 28, 2012

  41. I’ve encountered this phenomena on twitter. I posted about Big Gov’t being antithetical to the concepts of freedom and liberty. A political science prof and another lib jerk a priori offered up that I knew nothing of either concept. When I offered up some specific examples from my military service oversees on how third-world people live under tyranny, they were unpersuaded. These are the drones Mark Levin opines about on the radio. It’s scary to think 51% of the country voted for this asininity.

    Comment by Leslie McIntire — November 28, 2012 @ 2:52 pm - November 28, 2012

  42. The thing is, if there were anecdotal evidence of minorities being barred from voting, Levi would be among those screaming for an investigation. But when there is a great deal of evidence of vote fraud, he and his comrade leftists shrug it off. “I can’t conceive of vote fraud being a big deal, so why waste time investigating it?”

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 2:56 pm - November 28, 2012

  43. I imagine x is often a lot more imaginitive than Levi

    I imagine a rock is more imaginitive than Levi. I know my chihuahua is.

    Comment by The_Livewire — November 28, 2012 @ 2:58 pm - November 28, 2012

  44. @ #38

    I enjoy debating over issues, which is how this thread started with me attempting to show the hypocrisy of the article. But it seems this thread has yielded to the rhetoric.

    I’m sorry NDT, #35 and 36 are to insane me to handle. I thought this site would be a little more center of the road because it is desinged for the gay community, who I thought would be a little more accepting of different ideologies. I don’t know if you’re a gay man or not, but I’m pretty sure you’re crazy.

    When did I ever advocate for your murder? I just started posting on this site and you don’t know anything about me or my position on murdering republicans.

    I will do my best to debate actual issues in the future, instead of pointing out glaring inconsistencies in the linked material.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 3:01 pm - November 28, 2012

  45. Jesus rattlesnake, why do they let you stay in Canada?

    It makes no sense for the person committing voter fraud to be committing voter fraud. They gain nothing. Even if you consider a victory as something that they gain, you are still left having to explain why these people are casting fraudulent votes in cities that their politicians would win easily anyway. The problem isn’t my lack of imagination, the problem here is that the conservative assumptions about voter fraud rely on a dozen other assumptions which make no sense and have no proof. People simply don’t behave this way.

    In fact, I can imagine a couple of ways to steal an election. The best way would be to identify which demographics don’t vote for you and suppress that demographic’s turnout as much as you can. You can pass laws that will outlast term limits to suppress the vote, it doesn’t take a whole lot of people, and you can count on it working. Hey wouldn’t ya know that’s exactly what the republicans are doing!

    And of course, it makes perfect sense For a conservative such as yourself to say that people who can’t be bothered to comply with voter ID laws (which can cost thousands of dollars, by the way) shouldn’t be voting. Conservatives hate turnout. And that’s why you guys work so hard to diminish it.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 3:05 pm - November 28, 2012

  46. I’m sorry NDT, #35 and 36 are to insane me to handle. I thought this site would be a little more center of the road because it is desinged for the gay community, who I thought would be a little more accepting of different ideologies.

    Ah, we see; you demand “tolerance” of others even as you attack and berate them for alleged sins that you don’t criticize among liberals.

    In short, you thought you could bully and berate us because we’re gay. That not only demonstrates that you’re an abuser, but also that you’re a bigot.

    I don’t know if you’re a gay man or not, but I’m pretty sure you’re crazy.

    And I’m pretty sure you rape and sexually molest children.

    Want to play that game, smear artist? You pigs screamed that Romney was a rapist, a murderer, and a tax cheat; thus, you can be treated exactly the same way.

    When did I ever advocate for your murder? I just started posting on this site and you don’t know anything about me or my position on murdering republicans.

    Too bad you can’t read.

    Again, Obama Party rules. You screamed about “conservative equivalents”; therefore, you can be held personally responsible for every statement another Obama supporter makes.

    Getting the point? You come here, you have to play by the rules you try to demand of others.

    I will do my best to debate actual issues in the future, instead of pointing out glaring inconsistencies in the linked material.

    Comment by Aaron — November 28, 2012 @ 3:01 pm – November 28, 2012

    No, you won’t. Your only purpose in coming here was to yell at what you thought were soft targets, and you just got your butt kicked and exposed as an unprincipled, lying bigot.

    Now get back to your Obama Youth meeting. No one here seriously believes that you have either the mental or moral capability to do much more than shriek “SIEG HEIL, OBAMA! DEATH TO REPUBLICANS!” over and over and over again.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 3:28 pm - November 28, 2012

  47. And the imbecilic child continues to bleat and scream and cry.

    ?It makes no sense for the person committing voter fraud to be committing voter fraud. They gain nothing. Even if you consider a victory as something that they gain, you are still left having to explain why these people are casting fraudulent votes in cities that their politicians would win easily anyway.

    That’s easy.

    Fraudulent votes in Philadelphia negate the rest of Pennsylvania.

    Fraudulent votes in Cleveland negate the rest of Ohio.

    Fraudulent votes in Chicago negate the rest of Illinois.

    Fraudulent votes in Detroit negate the rest of Michigan.

    Fraudulent votes in Madison and Milwaukee negate the rest of Wisconsin.

    Fraudulent votes in Minneapolis negate the rest of Minnesota.

    Indeed, the absolute Obama Party control of cities makes this easy. They need not go out to every single precinct and polling place; they need to just commit fraud in the tightly-clustered metropolitan precincts.

    This is why Republicans dominate the House and state legislatures, which are chosen by voters in individual and smaller precincts away from these urban centers. Presidential electors and Senate seats are awarded on a winner-take-all for most states; therefore, Obama supporters manufacture the votes they need in their urban strongholds, and neutralize the rest of the state.

    And as far as “gaining nothing”, au contraire; vote for Obama and he’ll give you a free phone, you won’t have to worry about gas or a mortgage, and he’ll pay you from his stash. Indeed, all Obama’s campaign was about was promising people free stuff in exchange for voting for him.

    Really, Levi. Your problem is that you’re a) a malicious little liar and b) used to lying to fellow imbecile Obama cultists. Anyone with an education and intelligence who isn’t blinded by partisan hate like you are can see this.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 3:36 pm - November 28, 2012

  48. Whenever one of Levi’s talking points is refuted, he just repeats it more loudly and vehemently.

    This is an argumentative tactic typical of a stupid person.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 3:39 pm - November 28, 2012

  49. In fact, I can imagine a couple of ways to steal an election. The best way would be to identify which demographics don’t vote for you and suppress that demographic’s turnout as much as you can.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 3:05 pm – November 28, 2012

    Of course that makes sense to a leftist, who thinks people vote based solely on their demographic characteristics.

    Republicans know better. Republicans know that people are more than their skin color, age, or gender; intelligent voters actually think through and review the issues.

    Furthermore, once one starts looking at people as individuals rather than demographic groups who all act/behave/think the same way, the theoretical impossibility comes out.

    Add to that the lack of experience of ignorant welfare children like Levi. Levi, having never held a job, doesn’t know that you are required as a condition of employment in the United States to provide a valid photo ID. Thus, Levi is easy prey for the Obama Party propagandists who scream that no black people have photo ID, which to the rest of us would translate into the ludicrous claim that there are no black people employed legally anywhere in the United States.

    The simple fact of the matter is that Levi is a malicious liar. Levi supports voter fraud. Levi encourages voter fraud. Levi knows full well that without voter fraud and ballot-stuffing, the Obama Party would be a permanent minority. That’s why Levi screams and cries and rants and insists that any sort of registration or identity verification requirements for voting be abolished.

    As I’ve stated, we have to start fighting fire with fire. Levi and the Obama Party vote multiple times; conservatives have to start doing the same. The sick and deluded Levi child will never follow the law, so unless we want to have elections stolen for the rest of our lives, we have to keep doing what Levi and his deluded Obama Party creatures do.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 3:43 pm - November 28, 2012

  50. Aron listen what happens in the civilized world

    1) In all EU countries except UK when voting, you are required to bring an ID that can only be the ID Card or the driving license (in some countries) plus another document similar to the registration form that must have the same data crossed with the electoral registry. The only 2 documents that both carry your pic and the complete full address are the id card and driving license. No fucking passport, bills, renting contract, birth certificate can do the trick.

    Pretty much all EU has poor immigrants and they DO NOT VOTE. NOBODY ever called any EU country racist for this, not even the most deranged hardline local communist. Not only their political life would be over instantly, but also their PHYSICAL LIFE would be over.

    Now Aron what do you call this? Anormality? Silliness? Relic laws from old Europe?

    2)I know somebody personally that flew to USA to find fame and fortune. She and her boyfriend are working as waitress and cook both illegally (they overstayed their visa a long time ago). She is a brain dead liberal and I know for sure she was helped to vote Obama. Someone illegal is usually very careful not to engage in activities that might put her in danger but she assured me that the thing is safe. The brainless idiot voted in Los Angeles so I can’t say she did damage, but here is your evidence.

    Are you proud of this Aron? You have 10millions illegals. That would be enough to turn a 40% for Obama into 55%.

    This kind of stuff does not even happen in third world countries.

    Congratulations Aron for being happy that USA is known to be a banana republic.

    Comment by susan — November 28, 2012 @ 3:48 pm - November 28, 2012

  51. ‘When I provided evidence of voter fraud, including linking articles, he dismissed such notions as “claptrap,” with another classmate chiming in to tell me to “ Learn to actually think”.”

    Your mistake. You are empowering them.

    A) UNFRIEND
    B) call him homophobe

    Comment by susan — November 28, 2012 @ 3:50 pm - November 28, 2012

  52. And if it getting ID is so difficult, maybe the logical response is to change it so that it is easier to get ID. That way, the integrity of elections is preserved while it cannot be claimed that there is any voter suppression.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 4:08 pm - November 28, 2012

  53. Look, the Democrats run voter registration drives all the time. Would it really be that hard for them to run Voter ID drives? Of course not. Their opposition has nothing to do with voter suppression and everything to do with keeping the fraud going.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 4:13 pm - November 28, 2012

  54. Jesus rattlesnake, why do they let you stay in Canada?

    Huh?

    Conservatives hate turnout.

    Maybe that is because we think low-information voters shouldn’t be voting, becuase they have a way of screwing everyone else by voting for what benefits them at the expense of everyone else and hence undermining the economy and society in general.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 4:13 pm - November 28, 2012

  55. A better question is why do Democrats want to maximize the voting participation of idiots and felons?

    Personally, I think people should have to pass the same citizenship exam administered to immigrants before they are allowed to vote.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 4:25 pm - November 28, 2012

  56. And if it getting ID is so difficult, maybe the logical response is to change it so that it is easier to get ID. That way, the integrity of elections is preserved while it cannot be claimed that there is any voter suppression.

    That’s only logical if voter fraud is a real problem. Solutions are only logical if you’re solving problems that exist, and that’s not the case in this situation, because voter fraud does not exist in any significant amount.

    I would add that it’s a very un-conservative position to advocate for more government and more bureaucracy and more identification programs and cards and departments. Not only are you trying to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist, you’re contradicting all of your bluster about small, limited government.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 4:31 pm - November 28, 2012

  57. Now back to my point, can we not look objectively and see the similarities?

    Just because similarities might exist doesn’t imply they are both equally wrong. From my perspective, it is obvious that there is no question which side is right, but I’m sure I can’t be objective because my bias is deeply ingrained. I think I’m right, and if I were interested I could try to build a solid argument as to why I’m right, but until then I can’t be completely certain (even though I have sort of been doing that since I started my blog, and that has built on what others have done, although none of it is exhaustive).

    And again, why are the Democrats’ voter fraud schemes centered on cities, where they don’t need any help?

    To increase their margin in the state as a whole.

    Because some people work hard but still can’t improve matters for themselves or their children.

    Not to mention that hard work isn’t the only component. Good decision making is also necessary.

    I enjoy debating over issues, which is how this thread started with me attempting to show the hypocrisy of the article.

    And the premise for your comment is flawed, because this isn’t an echo chamber (as The_Livewire pointed out).

    I thought this site would be a little more center of the road because it is desinged for the gay community, who I thought would be a little more accepting of different ideologies.

    You’re making the assumption that homosexuality has something to do with political views. I certainly don’t think it does. And given the experience many gay conservatives have with extremely hostile gay leftists, it actually makes sense that gay conservatives are less trusting.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 4:47 pm - November 28, 2012

  58. That’s only logical if voter fraud is a real problem. Solutions are only logical if you’re solving problems that exist, and that’s not the case in this situation, because voter fraud does not exist in any significant amount.

    There is a possibility that it exists. Every fraudulent vote cast cancels out a legitimate vote. It is worthwhile to make such a small sacrifice (as requiring ID to vote) in order to ensure the integrity of the elections.

    I would add that it’s a very un-conservative position to advocate for more government and more bureaucracy and more identification programs and cards and departments. Not only are you trying to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist, you’re contradicting all of your bluster about small, limited government.

    Government is necessary to ensure, to the greatest possible extent, that everyone’s rights are being equally protected (which is, by the way, why Somalia is a failed state). Voter ID is necessary to accomplish that.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 4:52 pm - November 28, 2012

  59. “58.That’s only logical if voter fraud is a real problem. Solutions are only logical if you’re solving problems that exist, and that’s not the case in this situation, because voter fraud does not exist in any significant amount.”

    This is idiocy as everything written by the retard levi

    Obama won with 300,000 votes. I can see democrats bussing people in relevant precincts and having people with no voting rights being granted fake identities to commit fraud.

    Someone should explain this royal retard that in a nation of laws (as opposed to the lawless nation that brain dead leftiests wants where laws are adapted according to status) even 1 fake vote is a crime.

    Again usually leftist idiots are so enamored with European sophisticated ways, none of them here contested what I wrote.

    Even random tax cheating does not damage much after all so I guess levi is fine with semi wealthy and billionaires that vote Republican cheating the tax code?

    Comment by susan — November 28, 2012 @ 5:31 pm - November 28, 2012

  60. As we’ve seen time and time again susan, Levi’s answer to facts is to scream his lies louder.

    Comment by The_Livewire — November 28, 2012 @ 5:49 pm - November 28, 2012

  61. Just so we’re clear:

    1. Levi knows voter fraud is real.
    2. Levi knows voter fraud benefits Democrats.
    3. Levi wants voter fraud to continue.

    Once you accept the Levi does not argue in good faith, you’ve taken another step on the path to enlightenment.

    Comment by V the K — November 28, 2012 @ 6:04 pm - November 28, 2012

  62. There is a possibility that it exists. Every fraudulent vote cast cancels out a legitimate vote. It is worthwhile to make such a small sacrifice (as requiring ID to vote) in order to ensure the integrity of the elections.

    So the standard for creating laws is now based on the possibility of crimes being committed? That’s absurd.

    You know, it’s posssible that people are shaving their pubes on the city bus. I don’t have any evidence for that, but it’s possible! You can’t argue with that! Does that mean we should pass laws against it?

    The answer is no, because even though the possibility exists that people are shaving their pubes on the city bus, it doesn’t happen, or happens extremely infrequently, because people don’t behave that way. If you just shut your brain off and forget everything you know about human nature, there are any number of possible crimes that people could commit. But how is that productive? You have to take into account what motivates people, what compels them to do things like cheat and break the rules. If breaking a law carries a penalty but confers absolutely no benefits, people generally avoid breaking that law.

    And the scale that would be required. You’d have to have millions of people doing this in order for it to affect an election, this would presumably require a massive effort on the part of Democratic officials, and still there’s no proof. 10 cases of voter fraud in the last 10 years? And you’re willing to pass laws that effectively disenfranchise millions of people. It’s also very easy for you to dismiss Voter ID as a small sacrifice, considering that it exclusively affects Democratic constituencies. What if I suspected rich people of committing voter fraud? What if my proposal to address this problem that possibly exists was to have rich people verify their identity by bringing 10 years of tax returns to their precinct to be fully audited before they were able to vote? You know, to confirm their identity. Would my law, so obviously designed to minimize the turnout for a reliably conservative constituency, be justified in your opinion?

    Government is necessary to ensure, to the greatest possible extent, that everyone’s rights are being equally protected (which is, by the way, why Somalia is a failed state). Voter ID is necessary to accomplish that.

    No it isn’t. The idea is that citizens get a vote, not citizens WITH AN ID get a vote. There are people that live in the woods and have never stepped foot in a government building in this country, and they still get a vote. Voting should not be hard. Voting should not be complicated. Voting should not take 12 hours. Everyone has the right to vote in this country, and the Republicans’ fake voter fraud stories and their voter suppression efforts interfere with that.

    Comment by Levi — November 28, 2012 @ 6:48 pm - November 28, 2012

  63. So the standard for creating laws is now based on the possibility of crimes being committed? That’s absurd.

    You know, it’s posssible that people are shaving their pubes on the city bus. I don’t have any evidence for that, but it’s possible! You can’t argue with that! Does that mean we should pass laws against it?

    This argument is absurd. Even if people were doing that, why would there be a law against it? Wouldn’t it be covered by laws against indecent exposure anyway?

    Voter fraud violates laws that already exist (whether they are written or not).

    If you just shut your brain off and forget everything you know about human nature

    I’m not sure what human nature has to do with anything. Anyway, you can’t just use “human nature” to try to predict what people will and will not do.

    And the scale that would be required. You’d have to have millions of people doing this in order for it to affect an election

    So? One fraudulent vote is good enough, considering the minimal effort that would be needed to require ID when voting.

    And you’re willing to pass laws that effectively disenfranchise millions of people

    Millions of people who shouldn’t be voting anyway, if they aren’t even competent enough to obtain some identification.

    What if my proposal to address this problem that possibly exists was to have rich people verify their identity by bringing 10 years of tax returns to their precinct to be fully audited before they were able to vote? You know, to confirm their identity.

    The problem with this is that it doesn’t make a lick of sense.

    Everyone has the right to vote in this country,

    I’m sure there are a lot of people who would argue with that.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — November 28, 2012 @ 7:19 pm - November 28, 2012

  64. Meanwhile, ten years of tax returns to be allowed to vote? Fine by me.

    Now watch as the desperate Levi screams and cries that he and his fellow Obama supporters shouldn’t have to follow that standard.

    Again, it’s pure hypocrisy. Levi and his Obama Party need voter fraud. Period.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 28, 2012 @ 7:30 pm - November 28, 2012

  65. Hey Levi! Try thinking for a change, will ya!

    Blue areas have higher voter fraud because that is where folks living on the dole have the time and want/need the extra cash to vote more than once. Or the poll workers will cheat by throwing votes away.(cash – there’s your incentive)

    Red areas – more rural and suburban will not tolerate such crap and will turn in suspected cheaters.

    In the cities? Turn in suspected cheats? Ha! that is not likely to happen there. Too busy with other “real” crimes to worry about a little fishy stuff at the polls.

    It comes down to culture – folks who respect the rule of law will have less cheaters; areas where there is less respect for the law will have more folks willing to take a few extra dollars to cheat.

    CASH – it can allow a politician to do almost anything.

    Comment by Charles — November 28, 2012 @ 11:56 pm - November 28, 2012

  66. “They’re just so used to their[conservative liberal/libertarian] opinion being validated.”

    Comment by Passing By — November 29, 2012 @ 12:31 am - November 29, 2012

  67. Again, the vague, disconnected satisfaction of knowing your political candidate won an election is not something that motivates people. There are tens of millions of people in this country that don’t vote at all. And yet, supposedly there are legions of people out there who are spending all day double and triple voting because they think they’re going to get something meaningful in return? It’s unbelievable.

    I realize that being a resident of The District can give one a skewed sense of our electoral process, particularly when an elector of said locale is only accustomed to voting for a) POTUS; b) city council members; c) board of education members; and/or d) giving Eleanor Holmes Norton an electoral landslide attagirl for her outstanding committee work and occasional media appearances for the previous two years.

    But in the America outside of the Beltway (hereinafter referred to as The Real World—and not to be confused with a cable TV reality show), there are many more races which are relatively easy to skew via electoral fraud; and let’s be clear here: “voter suppression” is voter fraud, so let’s stop treating one as something that rips the very fibers of the medium the Constitution is printed on and the other as something akin to unicorns and virgins in Hollywood.

    In my state, in 2012 alone, there were several legislative races (for residents of The District, that would be members of the state legislature, the governing statewide body) which were decided by less than ten votes—and in once instance, three votes—in either the primary or general election. It doesn’t take a Nate Silver or a Larry Sabato to see where voter fraud would be relatively easy to undertake and pull off, particularly if you had an inkling that the race would be close—or knew that the number of candidates running would make a victory for one particular candidate easier.

    That’s just one instance. In races for smaller offices, like county commission (that’s the governing body of what we in The Real World know as “counties”—kind of like a large area comprised of several cities and/or towns), it could be even easier, since there tends to be a more homogeneous voter base [whereas legislative districts often cross county lines]. If you get your guy (or gal) elected to a county commission slot—or just prevent someone you don’t like from garnering a position, you are one step closer to getting your will imposed upon the governed class. (Hence the allegedly non-existent motivation—no exchange of funds required.)

    Here’s another rub: in another lifetime, I was once an election judge—one of those people who works on election day at each locale in which votes are cast (and often—usually derisively, IMHO—referred to as a “poll worker”). After the 2000 election debacle, in which the election operatives of one state and primarily one county were unable to run a competent election, the entire nation was made to pay for those sins via the Help America Vote Act [or as I call it, The Helpless Americans Voting Act]. Aside from borrowing money from China to give to the states to purchase allegedly cutting edge voting technology, one of those provisions required states to adopt ‘provisional ballots’ to be used in cases where clear voter right to access the ballot box cannot be immediately determined. Every state has provisions for the provisional ballot and the instances in which it may be used.

    Yet, in the election training after HAVA was enacted, my local county elections official essentially said there were to be no provisional ballots used, and, if an election judge was caught distributing such ballot, she would basically beat the hell out of said judge. (While those exact words weren’t used, the same intent was conveyed.)

    So subsequent to that statement, when I questioned what prevented someone from voting in a neighboring county in the morning and coming into my county and voting in the afternoon (and registering at the polls in the later instance, as my state allows same-day voter registration), the answer was essentially “nothing”. In my mind, that set off alarm bells, as it showed that even in my allegedly evil very Republican state and very Republican county, the right to vote would not be impeded—even if the right was exercised illegally. This, again, in a very red county in a very red state. I can only imagine what occurs in blue counties in blue states. (“Your name is Fido Brown? You’re on the list, here’s your ballot! I see your brother Rover is also registered at your address. Don’t forget to remind him to vote today!”)

    I shouldn’t have to explain why this could be an issue, but as a favor to our low-information commenters, let’s use an example and say that there is an evil corporation (an oxymoron, I know—:eyeroll:) out there whose activities are being impeded in a local political subdivision and they wanted to see those activities unrestrained. Why not find a candidate willing to do your bidding (with or without renumeration) and back them, up to and including having a few extra votes go their way? In elections in which single-digit outcomes between winner/s and loser/s are not only likely, but common, this would be quite easy to achieve. Now can you see why voter fraud is not only a concern, but quite possible in the right (and not necessarily rare) instances??

    Comment by RSG — November 29, 2012 @ 5:40 am - November 29, 2012

  68. Voter ID should be required. To say that it is racist or discriminates in any way is a non sequitur. Why is it not racist or dicriminitory to provide a picture ID to buy a reduced rate bus passes for seniors or students in Los Angeles County? In other counties and states there is probably a requirement of a picture ID for access to various services. Opposition to voter ID smells like keeping the door open to voter fraud. Vote early and vote often.

    Comment by Roberto — November 29, 2012 @ 1:13 pm - November 29, 2012

  69. I notice that playing dumb has become part of Levi’s standard operating process. IIRC, he also couldn’t figure out what Obama would have to gain from covering his Benghazi debacle. (Or, maybe that was lower case mike.)

    He now wants us to believe that he finds it impossible to imagine that Democrats would manipulate the electoral process for their own benefit. And he is shocked… SHOCKED… that anyone would suggest that they would do such a thing.

    Anyway, in large urban centers under the hegemonic control of the Democrat Party, the chances of being caught, much less prosecuted, for voter fraud are nil. So, contra Levi, there is no risk to committing voter fraud.

    Second, the Democrat Party (as Levi well knows) benefits immensely from vote fraud. The Democrat vote fraud from large cities like Detroit, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia can easily flip a close election for Governor or Senator; (and very probably did for Al Franken and Christine Gregoire). And doubtless those who participated are rewarded by the party, one way or another.

    A corrupt political machine with monopoly control of the levers of Government and access to the public treasury can give out much in the way of favors.

    So, the question is, is Levi stupid enough to believe that inner city Democrat machines are models of propriety and lawfulness, or is he just lying?

    Comment by V the K — November 29, 2012 @ 1:42 pm - November 29, 2012

  70. let’s be clear here: “voter suppression” is voter fraud, so let’s stop treating one as something that rips the very fibers of the medium the Constitution is printed on and the other as something akin to unicorns and virgins in Hollywood.”

    Thank you

    Comment by Passing By — November 29, 2012 @ 1:48 pm - November 29, 2012

  71. Irony: Someone makes a blog post about how liberals are incapable of argument because they can only repeat talking points from their echo chamber. Then, a liberal proves the point by posting talking points from their echo chamber.

    Comment by V the K — November 29, 2012 @ 1:50 pm - November 29, 2012

  72. “Irony: Someone makes a blog post [comment] about how [conservative liberals] are incapable of argument because they can only repeat talking points from their echo chamber. Then, a [conservative liberal] proves the point by posting talking points from their echo chamber.”

    Comment by Passing By — November 30, 2012 @ 12:50 am - November 30, 2012

  73. Ah, I see Passing By is acknowledging that V the K is superior and able to live up to standards that Passing By, being a liberal, is incapable of reaching.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — November 30, 2012 @ 3:05 am - November 30, 2012

  74. Passing By is an idiot savant minus the savant part.

    Comment by V the K — November 30, 2012 @ 9:17 am - November 30, 2012

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