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  1. The only problem with Obamacare Schadenfreude is that we, also, are getting hit with the damage that O-care supporters are now complaining about. But it is fun to see the supporters of the program turn against it once they realise that their particular ox is being gored, not just the other guy’s.

    Comment by Arkelk — February 3, 2013 @ 1:24 am - February 3, 2013

  2. It is with some trepidation, therefore, that I describe some symptoms I have been experienced with increasing frequency over the last few months.

    There is no need for trepidation. Of course the United States has made mistakes in the past, but that doesn’t invalidate the principles on which it was founded. It does the opposite, in fact, because all of those mistakes (slavery, for example) were in violation of its founding principles. That the United States has moved on from the mistakes made in the distant past demonstrates that the system works how it supposed to. So, all the “punitive liberals” are completely wrong.

    On the other hand, Obamacare is one of many mistakes that violate the United States’ founding principles that are being committed right now. It is better for every honest person for Obamacare to fail, so the United States can move on from that mistake.

    Comment by Rattlesnake — February 3, 2013 @ 2:08 am - February 3, 2013

  3. [...] GayPatriot » Obamacare Schadenfreude Go to this article [...]

    Pingback by » GayPatriot » Obamacare Schadenfreude — February 3, 2013 @ 3:40 am - February 3, 2013

  4. Never fear, Obamacare II will appear! A single payerpublic health system. THAT will surely fix the problem. It is, after all, the greedy insurance companies that are raising premiums just to make money despite the regulations imposed upon them. This is coming soon from a leftist near you!)

    Comment by Paul — February 3, 2013 @ 5:34 am - February 3, 2013

  5. At a town hall meeting in Portsmouth, N.H. in August, 2009, President Barack Obama was asked about his support of a “universal” health coverage and whether his plan would result in the government taking over health care. I had the dubious distinction of asking him that question. I also suggested that move would put private insurance companies out of business because no one can compete with the government as to costs implying the gov’t. would keep printing more money and run huge deficits.

    In his answer, Obama made a point that caught the media’s attention: “I have not said that I was a single-payer supporter,” Obama said. We all know that was not a true statement.

    So, when I now call Obama a “liar” I have the proof in a direct exchange with him. (No, I did not call him a liar at the time with all the cameras running for obvious reasons).

    Comment by benj — February 3, 2013 @ 6:12 am - February 3, 2013

  6. An interesting column in the Wall Street Journal about the TARP bailout of GM notes:

    We estimate that these three irregularities increased the cost of the bailout by $26.5 billion. The Treasury expects the auto bailout to ultimately cost taxpayers $23 billion. The funds diverted to the UAW account for the taxpayers’ entire net loss.

    Avoiding these losses would have been straightforward. If the government treated the UAW in the manner required by bankruptcy law, it could have given the stock and promissory notes to the Treasury instead of to the UAW. Labor cost savings and not supporting Delphi pensions would have increased the value of the taxpayers’ shares of GM, while GM would have needed less financing.

    Instead, President Obama gave over $26 billion to the UAW—more money than the U.S spent on foreign aid last year and 50% more than NASA’s budget. None of that money kept factories running. Instead it sustained the above-average compensation of members of an influential union, sparing them from most of the sacrifices typically made in bankruptcy. Such spending does not serve the common good. President Obama did not bail out the auto industry. He bailed out the United Auto Workers.

    General Motors was pension fund financed by an automobile company. The workers had legal claims to more money than the company could ever pay. General Motors was no different than California where partially funded and huge unfunded liabilities are the eighty trillion ton gorilla in the room.

    GM was in bankruptcy long ago, but it kept in “business” on cash flow while piling up debt in every conceivable direction. It was, in short, the duplicate of the United States under Obama.

    So Obamacare turns out to be a preposterous, exorbitant money pit. You would think that the unions should clearly understand that. After all, they have been foisting such garbage off as a hidden tax on all consumers since the days of Saint Franklin of Roosevelt.

    But, now, as Jeremiah Wright once said: “America’s chickens are coming home to roost.”

    “President Obama gave over $26 billion to the UAW” but it was all funny money, just like the money in your pocket and bank account. Borrowed on the full faith and credit of the United States in the same way the UAW pension fund was “funded” by money that General Motors did not have and beyond any ability of General Motors to ever create by selling products.

    Now the poor union guys are angry over why they have to spend some of their own pocket money on health care. Health care costs are being forced into the stratosphere by a Rube Goldberg contraption called Obamacare, which we have yet to understand concerning “what is in it.”

    “O, what a tangled web we weave,
    When first we practice to deceive! ” — Sir Walter Scott

    Comment by heliotrope — February 3, 2013 @ 9:59 am - February 3, 2013

  7. The low information voters that are the Demoncrat voting base believed Obamacare meant free health care.

    Comment by V the K — February 3, 2013 @ 10:50 am - February 3, 2013

  8. Even the unions had to wait until it passed to know what was in it.

    But really the sad thing is the president probably will find some way to get the union exempted from the painful realities of his monstrosity of a healthcare plan.

    It really should be called the “UNaffordable Care Act” because it is going to make insurance unaffordable to everyone.

    Comment by Just Me — February 3, 2013 @ 2:47 pm - February 3, 2013

  9. Preliminary estimates are that “…a family of four”, that universal benchmark for punditry and bloviation, will face a base-rate of $20,000 the second-year of Obamacare.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — February 3, 2013 @ 3:11 pm - February 3, 2013

  10. Poor professors. It’s not like they deserve inferior care at a higher cost. They’ll love the line at the free clinic once Obamacare gets rolling. Professors are guilty of intellectual rape and will see all but the most elite schools crumble. Community colleges will face the ax sooner than later.

    Comment by Gary Cole (exleftist.com) — February 3, 2013 @ 4:33 pm - February 3, 2013

  11. The sad part is that Obama and his enablers aren’t really getting any blame for this. Read the reports – it’s as if it simply “occurred” – somehow, and they don’t like it.

    The next liberal I hear call out Obama – for OBAMAcare! – will be the first.

    Comment by alanstorm — February 3, 2013 @ 7:33 pm - February 3, 2013

  12. The silent majority and Republicans rarely grill Obama and his Democrats. People who gut them (like me) are ignored or called pariahs. Even when it’s all taken away, none of you will speak up. You’ll always act surprised and outraged. It gets old.

    Comment by Gary Cole (exleftist.com) — February 3, 2013 @ 10:36 pm - February 3, 2013

  13. Remember when those of us who said Obamacare was going to cost a lot more and do a lot less were called “Extremist Wingnuts?”

    Comment by V the K — February 3, 2013 @ 10:42 pm - February 3, 2013

  14. It’s more than simply cost. It’s culling the herd. It’s killing the old and disabled. People on HIV medication will be some day be denied medications. Ain’t no way the government is spending thousands on month on anal sex. Few stood up for Palin when she called Obamacare death panel central. She was ridiculed and kicked under a rock. She’s not my hero, but she’s better than most.

    Comment by Gary Cole (exleftist.com) — February 3, 2013 @ 10:52 pm - February 3, 2013

  15. From a progressive leftist’s point of view, the selling point of Obamacare wasn’t health care coverage; it was the armies and armies of bureaucrats that would be required to administer the thing. Just like with the TSA, more Government employees is the primary objective.

    Comment by V the K — February 4, 2013 @ 6:00 am - February 4, 2013

  16. 14.It’s more than simply cost. It’s culling the herd. It’s killing the old and disabled. People on HIV medication will be some day be denied medications.

    It’s also the next ‘super-bug’. When there’s no profit motive to recoup costs for failed attempts, why bother to make the next super-drug or super procedure?

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 4, 2013 @ 7:52 am - February 4, 2013

  17. Take your pick: Eloba, drug-resistant TB, MRSA, Spanish Influenza, flesh-eating bacteria, the Mumps. Or any of the traditional pestilences out of Africa or Asia spread courtesy of our stripped-n-frisked grannies in search of Warmer Climes.

    Comment by Ted B. (Charging Rhino) — February 4, 2013 @ 9:24 am - February 4, 2013

  18. Obamacare was NEVER about affordable health insurance/coverage. The end game was and remains universal coverage/single payer. I believe we are 5-10 years away from that, probably sooner.

    Comment by Mary — February 4, 2013 @ 10:16 am - February 4, 2013

  19. Once Obamacare gets rolling, it’ll spread fast. We can only hope that America the beautiful corrects itself once again. Once our grandparents start disappearing, or individuals themselves are denied care, people will freak out. Americans have big mouths and raise hell. We’ll see what happens. But the Left will not inherit the earth.

    Comment by Gary Cole (exleftist.com) — February 4, 2013 @ 1:12 pm - February 4, 2013

  20. Like Just Me, I worry that the President will find some way to grant some sort of exemption to his favored unions. And like Mary, I believe that “The end game was and remains universal coverage/single payer.”

    I have always believed that Obamacare was designed as a prime example of Cloward-Piven legislation: make demands on the insurers which cause their costs to skyrocket and will eventually drive most of them out of business. When that happens, there will be a big push for single-payer.

    Comment by Kurt — February 4, 2013 @ 1:15 pm - February 4, 2013

  21. What you’re experiencing is schadenfreude, the delicious sensation that occurs as your adversaries are hoist upon their own petard. That the petard IS punitive liberalism simply makes the irony even tastier.

    Comment by BikerDad — February 4, 2013 @ 2:11 pm - February 4, 2013

  22. My reaction to all this news: incessant giggling

    For me, “it’s too soon”. Obamacare is going to hurt us all, and possibly damage America for generations to come.

    So, when I now call Obama a “liar” I have the proof in a direct exchange with him.

    benj, good for you!

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 4, 2013 @ 2:12 pm - February 4, 2013

  23. By the way – when some leftist observer of GP somewhere just read my sentence, “Obamacare is going to… possibly damage America for generations to come” – he or she felt a thrill of righteous delight. Because it’s exactly what he/she wants… but would never admit to it, or at least not in front of us here.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 4, 2013 @ 2:15 pm - February 4, 2013

  24. Oh No! They’re finding out what’s it it…. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

    This is why Justice Roberts ultimately help the cause against the ACA. If he would have struck it down, there are way too many people who would not have the ugly reality of this monstrosity invading their lives. Yes, there are a few good bits nestled within this thing. But just like the Dept of Homeland Security, they created a huge new bureaucracy and total government overkill, when just a few changes in the law would have done just fine.

    I believe we are 5-10 years away from that, probably sooner.

    I think it’s 10 to 15. But I also think it would have been just a few more years away even if ObamaCare didn’t become law. The system as it exists is simply not sustainable in the long run. Employers were already systematically cutting back hour and /or hiring to reduce their liabilities concerning health care. This was the trend long before Obama even got elected to his first term. I’m not for national health care. But I think, ultimately, it’s going to happen out of necessity, because the majority of the population, those with job included, are simply going to be priced out of the ability to buy insurance coverage.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 4, 2013 @ 4:38 pm - February 4, 2013

  25. We must demand that 100% of all U.S. citizens are enrolled in Obamacare and are subject to the rules of Obamacare and including every single person in government: Congress, the President, the courts, the military, everybody.

    Congress exempted themselves from Obamacare so that they could get elite treatment at Bethesda. Let them soak the taxpayers for the “platinum plan” and suffer the same indignities that real people will have thrust upon them.

    Comment by heliotrope — February 4, 2013 @ 4:44 pm - February 4, 2013

  26. We the disabled from birth do to genetics will go first the hemophiliacs, the Ehlers-Danlos sufferers and the whole host of related connective tissue disorders people. But we have a surprise for O’bama we who are adults, we have learned to manage our disorders in some ways we are better off then you. We have learned how to deal with wounds to our bodies. WE WILL SURVIVE and while the rest of you are killed by the “Dems” attempt to play God we will go on. And yes any of you who supported O’bamas re-election can read that as a threat, if you want. I am really beyond caring what you think at this point. What is the term, Oh yes Eugenics you are doing what Hitler wanted to do, and in the words of Sam Hall-God Damn your eyes!

    Comment by Catseye — February 4, 2013 @ 11:11 pm - February 4, 2013

  27. But I think, ultimately, it’s going to happen out of necessity, because the majority of the population, those with job included, are simply going to be priced out of the ability to buy insurance coverage.

    Oh really? So the same miraculous free market that has brought you computers DAZZLING in their power compared to my first computer (a 486 with 8 MB–8 MB!–of RAM at the cost of over $4000 back in 1991) and at under $500 can’t be relied upon to deliver health care coverage affordably? I beg to differ. Three words: LASIK. EYE. SURGERY.

    There’s nothing magical about health care that requires government involvement.

    Comment by Bastiat Fan — February 5, 2013 @ 4:34 am - February 5, 2013

  28. Ann Coulter was in rare form last night. MUST SEE – Pass it on!!

    http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2013/02/ann-coulter-attacks-obamas-gun.html

    Comment by Steve — February 5, 2013 @ 6:48 am - February 5, 2013

  29. Steve, I love Fox’s subtitle, “President Obama talks about everything, but jobs and the economy.”

    Not to get this thread off the subject of Obamacare, but that’s what all this drum-beating on gun-control is: a way to NOT talk about Obama’s failures. (As well as a way to achieve the Left’s goal of a disarmed populace, that can be more easily controlled and raped.)

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 5, 2013 @ 10:29 am - February 5, 2013

  30. Ditto, ILC.

    Obama is continuing his campaign of distractions which he launched last spring to avoid addressing issues of the deficit, the economy, unemployment and our porous Mexican border.

    The low information voters would rather bitch and carp about guns, contraceptives, race, health care, gay marriage, etc. They are all tuned into divisiveness, defamations, deceit, denial, distortion, demagoguery and, of course, distraction.

    Whether Omama can keep them dazzled with his bullshipping for four years is much of the point. It is hard to break through the fog of orchestrated complacency.

    Comment by heliotrope — February 5, 2013 @ 12:53 pm - February 5, 2013

  31. Late to this dance about obama care that I am, the following article is not very good news :
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/05/Surrender-Ohio-Gov-Kasich-Spurns-Tea-Party-Backs-Obamacare-Medicaid-Expansion-Left-Celebrates

    My guess is that republican governors are going to fall like dominos and embrace “THE MONEY” from Washington. This will push us further down that slippery slope to a government mandated single payer medical system. We all will be “wards” of the state in the U. S. Government version of socialized medecine.

    Great point Bastiat Fan – it is amazing how capitalism and the entrepreneurial spirit to make money and build a business works. The medical industry would look very different if we could eliminate government from it completely. It would be amazing what competition would do to medical costs.

    Comment by mixitup — February 5, 2013 @ 12:56 pm - February 5, 2013

  32. Bastian said:

    Oh really? So the same miraculous free market that has brought you computers DAZZLING in their power compared to my first computer (a 486 with 8 MB–8 MB!–of RAM at the cost of over $4000 back in 1991) and at under $500 can’t be relied upon to deliver health care coverage affordably? I beg to differ. Three words: LASIK. EYE. SURGERY.

    Two counterpoints.

    One.

    Lasik procedures are quick, taking 20 minutes per eye. The reason why the free market has put it on the cheap side is because it is a procedure that can be done quickly, thus allowing the doctor to make his income based on volume. Even at the lowest end of the price range, $500 per eye – which rarely happens since those are the price of working on eyes that are perfectly shaped with no astigmatism – an efficient lasik surgeon can make $10,000 a day. And remember, I’m low balling here. The average price of Lasik is actually around $1,500 per eye.

    So Lasik follows the Subway / McDonalds model of business, make money by volume of business instead of price.

    In most fields of medicine, that wouldn’t work because whatever needs to be done doesn’t fit that business model. Medical care often takes time… Lots of it.

    Two.

    A better example would be to look at another group of highly skilled and trained professionals, ones that although the are regulated are not to the extent that the medical field is, and that do enjoy a much more “free market” based pricing system….

    That would be lawyers! I’m not seeing too many really affordable lawyers out there, at least not ones I would trust!

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 5, 2013 @ 1:36 pm - February 5, 2013

  33. America is already being eased into a “new normal”: shorter workweeks, reduced pay, college graduates unable to find employment and going back to live with their parents, etc., etc. Eventually, the amazing, innovative healthcare (that was for so long the best in the world) we have enjoyed for so many years will become a forgotten memory. Doctors will no longer work in private practice, they will all become employees of hospitals (and eventually the state). They will trade in the long hours, no vacation, risks and expenses of running private practices for less pay, better hours and the government dictating how to practice medicine. They will become a pool of highly skilled laborers, who may at some point unionize. It is not going to pretty. You will see long lines, scarcity of resources, rationing, denial of care at both ends of the spectrum (beginning and end of life), and everyone being treated by disease classification with set protocols.

    It sucks that we all will suffer because of this crap sandwich that was foisted on us by Democrats. The Democrats own this monstrosity as not one Republican voted for it. I am sure, though, that the MFM will spin it differently, and that somehow, some way, the Republicans will get blamed for Obamacare somewhere down the road in the future. Just wait.

    Comment by runningrn — February 5, 2013 @ 2:47 pm - February 5, 2013

  34. sf, you miss the point. lasik became a fast procedure (and cheap in other ways as well) precisely because of the market. You look at a good result created by the market and say, “well look how good it is! That’s not to the market’s credit!” Oh, but it is. Just like fast, cheap computers, we have fast, cheap lasik only because of the market. The market is all about (efficiently) increasing production, which is how and why things become more affordable. “The capitalist achievement does not typically consist in providing more silk stockings for queens but in bringing them within reach of factory girls.” – Joseph Schumpeter. He was talking about goods, but it applies to any activity where capital can meaningfully augment human labor.

    As for lawyers: You think that judicial representation isn’t inherently time-intensive? Really? But the bits of it that may be simpler or less time-intensive (such as cranking out a will for the average person) are indeed as cheap as lasik.

    Comment by ILoveCapitalism — February 5, 2013 @ 3:41 pm - February 5, 2013

  35. A better example would be to look at another group of highly skilled and trained professionals, ones that although the are regulated are not to the extent that the medical field is, and that do enjoy a much more “free market” based pricing system….

    That would be lawyers! I’m not seeing too many really affordable lawyers out there, at least not ones I would trust!

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 5, 2013 @ 1:36 pm – February 5, 2013

    Terrible example, Sonic.

    As Cato phrased it:

    Lawyers are not a popular group among the general public, and the high price of legal services in part accounts for their poor reputation. A principal reason for those high prices is the lawyer’s monopoly on providing legal services. Every state except Arizona has an “unauthorized practice of law” (UPL) statute that makes it illegal for anyone who does not meet the requirements set by state bars to render legal assistance……

    Arizona has also opened up its market for legal services. In1986, Arizona’s UPL statute expired and the legislature declined to reenact it. Since that time, many businesses offering legal assistance by nonlawyers have opened. The benefit to consumers of having the option of contracting with unlicensed practitioners is illustrated in Arizona Attorney (1994):

    Bob Haves knew he needed help in filing for a divorce when a nine-year search finally turned up his wife in Georgia. But when the air-conditioning and heating mechanic was told by an attorney that he needed to pay an $800 retainer up front, Haves balked. Instead he turned to one of a growing number of legal document services in Arizona that helped him prepare and file his divorce and even sort through child support, child custody, and spousal maintenance problems. Haves believes that the $175 he paid for the service was a bargain.

    And, from a bit more recently:

    FOR decades the legal industry has operated as a monopoly, which has been made possible by its self-imposed rules and state licensing restrictions — namely, the requirements that lawyers must graduate from an American Bar Association-accredited law school and pass a state bar examination. The industry claims these requirements are essential quality-control measures because consumers do not have sufficient information to judge in advance whether a lawyer is competent and honest. In reality, though, occupational licensure has been costly and ineffective; it misleads consumers about the quality of licensed lawyers and the potential for non-lawyers to provide able assistance.

    Rather than improving quality, the barriers to entry exist simply to protect lawyers from competition with non-lawyers and firms that are not lawyer-owned — competition that could reduce legal costs and give the public greater access to legal assistance.

    In short, you can be prosecuted for practicing law without the authorization of the state bar — which means there is a complete monopoly on legal services and the practice of law.

    THAT is why prices are so high. There is no “free market” for legal services. It is a state-sanctioned monopoly.

    Comment by North Dallas Thirty — February 5, 2013 @ 4:28 pm - February 5, 2013

  36. You are so wrong Sonic. Bastiat Fan’s analogy of pricing in the computer industry is solid. There are MANY procedures that would be cheaper without government and a little more capitalism and competition. To name a few : endoscopy, colonoscopy, laparoscopic procedures, MRI’s, prostate cancer biopsy. There are more – but that is enough to shoot holes in your objection

    Now the fact. A few years ago my son had one of the above procedures – endoscopy – his GI doctor appologized to me that the cost was so high. He said it should cost about $300 – $350 – but because of government regulations and covering the cost of patients that get free medicine(read: illegals) he had to charge 3-4 times the normal cost. On top of that, I couldn’t SHOP the procedure with competitors because they ALL have to charge the same amount.

    So Sonic, Bastiat Fan’s analogy is spot on. By the way, that is one of many ways we could get medical prices down, and increase the quality of service – good old competition and free market capitalism – works every time!!!!!!

    Comment by mixitup — February 5, 2013 @ 5:19 pm - February 5, 2013

  37. sf, you miss the point. lasik became a fast procedure (and cheap in other ways as well) precisely because of the market. You look at a good result created by the market and say, “well look how good it is! That’s not to the market’s credit!” Oh, but it is.

    No. You miss the point completely. It does work because it can be done quickly. All of medicine has the same tools. The laser wasn’t perfected just because of eye surgery. It was used and perfected at the same time in every other field of medicine, and everyone enjoyed the same advances in computer technologies. Non of this is exclusive to lasik. But, unlike lasik surgery, which is a relatively simple procedure, you can’t do heart surgery quickly… Or back surgery.. Or treat / hopefully cure cancer.

    And yes, there are some procedures that could follow the lasik quick in /quick out model, such as mix’s example of endoscopy. But as a whole, getting those prices down would only stave off the collapse for a little while.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 5, 2013 @ 7:17 pm - February 5, 2013

  38. First of all, thanks to everyone who came to my defense. I’m sorry, but I’ve been arguing this for so long, it’s just too exhausting to refute sonicturd’s lame argument.

    And for sonicturd, tell these people that the free market can’t save health care:

    http://www.surgerycenterok.com/index.php.

    Again, there’s nothing magical about health care that requires government to be involved. That goes for so-called “public” transportation, utilities, and with very few exceptions just about every other endeavor that we currently trust to the kleptocrats.

    Comment by Bastiat Fan — February 5, 2013 @ 9:50 pm - February 5, 2013

  39. As Arkelk says, it’s good the people who voted for the ACA or supported Obama are now feeling the pain. I just don’t want to suffer along with them :)

    Thanks for posting!

    Comment by Acethepug — February 6, 2013 @ 6:27 am - February 6, 2013

  40. Medicare/Medicaid also distorts the market. My Doc gets barely enough to break even from seeing a Medicare patient. To keep her staff, she has to charge insurance/private pay people more to cover wages, upgrades, unexpected expences etc.

    If the ‘Docfix’ is ever not passed (Which is must be allowed to expire for Obamacare’s numbers to even pretend to work) she’s dropping Medicare faster than you can say Ahhhhhhhh.

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 6, 2013 @ 7:42 am - February 6, 2013

  41. Yup, coming soon, to a hospital near you from the same folks who brought you the USPS (which will be cutting out Saturday postal delivery): Healthcare for Dummies (or sheeple). What could possibly go wrong?!!

    Comment by runningrn — February 6, 2013 @ 11:06 am - February 6, 2013

  42. On that note, what’s wrong with Jon Kasich? First John Roberts and now John Kasich giving Obamacare their stamp of approval.

    Actually, I know what it is; the entire establishment wing of the Republican Part has become infested with the idea that they need to piss on the base and suck up to people who will never vote for them.

    Comment by V the K — February 6, 2013 @ 11:36 am - February 6, 2013

  43. Current theory here at home is that Kasich has been scarred by SB 5, and doesn’t know to keep hammering like Scott Walker. :-(

    Comment by The_Livewire — February 6, 2013 @ 1:26 pm - February 6, 2013

  44. First of all, thanks to everyone who came to my defense. I’m sorry, but I’ve been arguing this for so long, it’s just too exhausting to refute sonicturd’s lame argument.

    Sonicturd?????

    What the hell is wrong with you? Why can’t you just say “Sonicfrog… Here is an example of how this can work?”.

    Why call people childish names, especially when the person you are referring to, did not do the same? You make a good contribution here, but diminish the quality of the argument by acting like a child.

    Now, on to the information you presented..

    I like this. I do not in any way oppose this type of creative operation of medical facilities. The weak spot is that, as I mentioned before, like lasik, many of the procedures provided are relatively quick. But, when you are dealing with the examples I stated before, heart surgery, back surgery, cancer treatment, etc, those will cost much much higher.

    And, upon further examination….

    I just chose three of the of the listed procedures at random:

    Mandibular Osteotomy
    Strabismus,
    Knee Arthoscopy

    The pricing at the OK clinic for the last two does not seem to be much or any less than the average (Knee Arthoscopy, Strabismus). The first seem to be cheaper $12,000 to the regular estimate of a bit over $20,000. Note however that the Surgery Center pricing does not include things that included are in the higher estimate, such as any diagnostic studies necessary prior to the surgery such as lab, MRI, X-rays. Overnite costs are not included. And the hardware, which can be quite costly, is not included in the SC price.

    Again, I am not against this type of set up to medical care, but you should probably do more investigation to see just how much you save before you present this as the miracle to saving the medical industry from bankruptcy.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 7, 2013 @ 4:23 pm - February 7, 2013

  45. spam filter

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 7, 2013 @ 6:46 pm - February 7, 2013

  46. Oh dear. I’ve hurt the alleged “libertarian” sonicfrog’s feelings.

    Comment by Bastiat Fan — February 7, 2013 @ 11:12 pm - February 7, 2013

  47. That’s your reply? Oh well. The lack of a substantive rebuttal confirms you’re lost this round.

    PS. You didn’t hurt my feelings. I’m just trying to help you so you don’t look like a 5th grader. But. if looking lame doesn’t bother you, I certainly won’t stop you.

    Comment by Sonicfrog — February 8, 2013 @ 7:58 pm - February 8, 2013

  48. My guess is that republican governors are going to fall like dominos and embrace “THE MONEY” from Washington.

    Well mine hasn’t so far; and my state’s legislature has followed suit—much to the chagrin of the social work community and my lefty friends who are all scratching their heads, wondering how on earth the state could give up tens of millions of dollars of free money! Especially since the federal government has promised to cover never less than 90% of the cost! [Emphasis added.]

    So now the op-eds are rolling into the papers, helped by human-interest stories in my local daily newspaper with titles like this one: Expansion’s death leaves poor without Medicaid or insurance subsidies.

    Now if the pols can stand the withering criticism long enough to take the advice of the healthcare guru in the legislature, a Harvard MBA who states that we may be better off waiting until 2015 until the real goodies of Obamacare come into play in 2014 and then create our own plan to deal with all the po’ folks whose evil employers won’t cover them and, of course, the chilllllllllldren.

    Comment by RSG — February 11, 2013 @ 2:56 am - February 11, 2013

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